Why Impossible Burgers aren't that good

[@DrZedDrZedDrZed]

This is exactly my line of work at Christian Hansen. I work within the plant based innovation teams to try to figure out exactly HOW to make these foods less "meh". It IS really difficult. The hard part is that best formulations (the tastiest, minimally processed, whole food options) seem too difficult for legacy food manufacturers to stomach. When I worked at Noma, during the pandemic we transformed into a burger joint/winebar as indoor dining was banned---I made vegan quinoa tempeh burgers cooked with smoked almond butter and glazed with autolyzed yeast, fava bean shoyu and miso. Denmark's national paper called it the best veggie burger in the world. But if you shop solid state fermentation around to meat manufacturers they might as well have seen the boogeyman. You have to understand that, even though many of the formulations of these products are technically complex, most of them are made from ingredients sourced from supply-chain-blind, massive food processors whose products are shelf stable. *Just add water!* Now, I'm a big proponent of fermentation, and a huge chunk of animal agriculture IS fermented, so when recreating cheese, or salami, or yogurts, what bacteria and yeast bring to the table counts for MOST of your enjoyment---that's microbial terroir for you. Even a mild fermentation of texturized vegetable protein does WONDERS in reducing off flavours and building precursors to umami. But when it comes to fresh meat-like products, where microbes don't traditionally have a place, the pragmatist in me KNOWS that hybrids are the way forward. With the sate of food technology today, you could swap out up to 50% of the beef in any fast food restaurant and 98% of customers would not notice. The problem: how do you convince the public (that's been trained to think that 100% ANGUS BEEF is non-negotiably desirable) that filler is a GOOD thing. It's going to take a very brave corporation to pull it off. I always think back to what Kraft did when they replaced chemical dyes in their Mac and Cheese with Turmeric and didn't tell consumers for over a year, and nobody cared! It was brilliant. Now, meat isn't dye, but if we can't have our cake and eat it too, I'm wholly in agreement that hybrids are the way forward.

[@MinuteFood]

Thanks for your informed take - this was really interesting! And I *totally* agree about fast food...it seems like very low-hanging fruit (and a LOT of it!).

[@Ninjaeule97]

Damn, couldn't a few climate activists just take over one of the fast food franchises and do this on their own? I mean these guys are willing to stage numerous road blockades, use paint to vandalise yachts, notorious paintings, buildings, restaurants and private jets. Taking over a fast food restaurant and replacing half of the meat with vegan alternatives should be less risky than any of these other activities, right?

[@Campfire_Bandit]

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[@evanever]

This is always the best kind of comment to see on a video - good insight!

[@marcosmith6613]

Well that added a lot to a very enjoyable and informative video. Ex-meat eater here.

[@LiborTinka]

There is an old saying in my country: "Mushrooms are the meat of the poor." (there is an old tradition of picking and eating mushrooms) BTW there is a rare bracket mushroom called Laetiporus sulphureus (a.k.a. "chicken of the woods") that you can fry on a pan and really tastes like chicken, including the texture. I wasn't able to tell the difference.

[@benjamindesjarlais5713]

Chicken of the woods also grows in the US, my friends have found some and fried it and it was delicious

[@missnaomi613]

Wow! That sounds great!

[@LiborTinka]

@@benjamindesjarlais5713yes I got it from friend in New Jersey but it grows in my country too (Czech Republic) - same latitude.

[@siyuanng8348]

lion's mane mushroom tastes and feels like chicken

[@MrNoipe]

@@siyuanng8348 i've only had it fresh, but it doesn't remotely close to chicken

[@D1ndo]

I don't usually eat plant-based meat products. But it's not due to a lack of meaty flavor or texture. It's because of the *price*. Like, I can make 3 times as much burgers with real fresh meat compared to what they charge for Beyond Burger patties. Slovakia/Eastern Europe if you've been wondering.

[@aerisafoxfeather]

Same here, Canada. I thought I'd go to a wholesale grocer to buy a wholesaler box of Beyond Meat so I could get somewhere halfway, maybe a bit more expensive than meat but better than in the grocery stores... except that, for some reasons, it's even MORE EXPENSIVE (per patty) to buy the wholesale box than it is to buy them at the grocery store. So I dropped that idea. Which sucks, because I really, REALLY like the Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger patties, and absolutely WOULD use it in place of ground beef for all of my recipes if I could. Here's hoping the prices get better someday.

[@DemonXeron]

It's economies of scale pushing it back for the most part. As the tech matures and increases in popularity it will get cheaper. You can always eat beans, mushrooms, rice etc. if you want to go plant based on a budget, but many people unfortunately put flavour and familiarity before any of the other reasons they might become plant based.

[@kvweber]

In the US, at least, a big part of the plant-based meat substitutes being expensive is that the meat industry already has all the equipment and logistics to keep their prices down whereas newer companies have to sell at a higher price to cover the same thing. Economy of scale is a big part of it, but more because they're being pushed out than not getting popular on their own.

[@TasteOfButterflies]

Economies of scale play a part, sure, but also billions of dollars in subsidies to the meat industry (in the form of subsidies for feed grains, grazing grounds, water etc) are hugely important to keeping prices low. Most people have no idea how much meat would cost with no subsidies and accounting for externalities.

[@DemonXeron]

@@TasteOfButterflies This is incredibly true. Often I mention it but I forgot. Even vegans pay a lot for meat simply by paying taxes.

[@mickster603]

It's funny coming from Asian cuisines where a lot of the tofu, seitan etc are often all traditionally combined with meat anyway! You ask for a tofu, and they'll give you a mapo tofu with beef, or a seitan stew with pork. There never really was a divide of meat or no meat - just ingredients. It's an idea that really should come over a lot more for those of us who want to reduce but not completely get rid of meat. All these ingredients are not mutually exclusive! :D

[@marcya4428]

That’s bc in Asia, these foods are not trying to substitute meat. Westerners just don’t know how to enjoy them as non meat items.

[@Ben_Cheng]

I fkin hate these dishes at the cai fan store because they would literally charge meat price for these hybrid dishes instead of veggie price. But we all know it's 80% veggies and only 20% meat! 😡

[@yvrelna]

This is exactly it. Make meat free proteins that are their own dish rather than trying to mimic meat. Hybrid dish really just need to be stir fried tempeh with mushroom and some minced beef and soy sauce, and they'll taste delicious and I'll gobble them all up. Fake meat burgers are always going to be off putting to me no matter how you slice it. It doesn't matter if they look and taste exactly like meat, just knowing the amount of processing and chemicals needed to make them be what they are just sounds disgusting.

[@huraqan3761]

Finally some wisdom

[@yououttapocket]

@@tic857 The easiest way is to add a vegan label onto dishes that are vegan. Although in my experience you will tell these people "It's not vegan, are you sure?" and they will still find a way to complain it's not vegan.

[@HappyHealthyWife]

I may be wrong on this, but instead of eating fake meat, I'm finding vegetarian foods that I like instead of trying to replace meat with something that tastes like meat. I've found that a good shakshuka or a nice vegetarian lasagna is better than an impossible burger.

[@franki1990]

Yeah, Idgaf about meat "substitutes". What I like is proteins, fiber, sugars, good fats, and I want them to be ethical, so no animals involved.

[@franciscodetonne4797]

Meat substitutes in general taste horrible. I prefer properly cooked vegetables. Beans and mushrooms are better than tofu.

[@KozuFox]

Yeah, it tastes better than the imitation products and is way cheaper too. You can't go wrong with a big bowl of beans and rice or some well prepared tofu in a stir fry.

[@langreeves6419]

Fake meat is expensive, unhealthy, and doesn't taste good. They keep "improving"...and the taste is becoming worse? If I had to eat fake meats, I would NOT be vegan.

[@Kensuke0987]

it's great that you like them, but the goal is to get people who likes to eat meat eat a little less when they're going to eat meat if you like meat and you liked a normal vegetarian food more than an Impossible Burger, then Impossible Burger has failed in that regard

[@drgeniusphd]

When I attended Ohio State, the dining halls started to serve all ground beef (burgers, taco meat etc) as a mix of like 20% mycoprotein and it tasted the exact same if not better. I mentioned this to family and we started chopping up mushrooms into some of our beef recipes, and it was a great addition to stuff like dumplings while cutting down on our red meat intake. It does kind of disappoint that it’s hard to get an alternative to meat that’s both convincing and “healthy” (low processing, low sodium, lower fat), but it’s exciting how much more impressive the products get every year.

[@arthas640]

They've run tests on that and cooked mushrooms mixed with beef in a meat loaf was able to get up to around 60-80% mushroom before people said the quality had dropped. Also I'm kind of shocked she didn't mention how tons of processed foods, especially ready made meals, already often contain a ton of filler. Textured vegetable protein, soy protein, soy flour, and about 100 other soy products are added to meats as a cheap filler than keeps protein levels high

[@someguy2135]

Try a mushroom steak as prepared by Wicked Kitchen's Derek Sarno. They have videos showing how on their channel.

[@avelee8.21.7BC]

Why, red meat is incredibly good for you!! Incredibly good. The fattier the better.

[@kingplunger1]

It doesn't need to taste like meat, it needs to taste good and not be absolutely terrible for our planet and thus ourselves...

[@cbuck1669]

i wish people got over the "if it isn't identical to meat its bad" mindset. plant based protien is delicious if you accept that its going to be a little different.

[@cronicasdeltiempo7540]

@@cbuck1669 The issue is that never gonna happen no mater what a good proportion of people will still want the taste and texture of meat. That's why its important to find a way to do it.

[@AnkaaAvarshina]

that's what _you_ want. A lot of other people DO want it to taste and feel LIKE meat, because that's what they're used to.

[@thanhavictus]

I found myself liking black bean burgers for the sake of black bean burgers. Even if you want to gatekeep the meat mimics, bear in mind that they bring to the table more options for more people is, at it's very least, more helpful overall for diverging from meat farming.

[@quintessenceSL]

I think this is the key. Make something that tastes BETTER than meat (I prefer vegetarian hot dogs to the real thing). It may not convince the current meat eaters to switch, but long term people will gravitate to things that tickle their palette (and wallet)..

[@nyuh]

as somebody who grew up eating tempe i dont mind it having a non meaty taste at all. tempe is just tempe and tempe tastes so good.

[@abhigail]

me too, afaik back then tempe and tofu saved indonesian from famine and malnourishment during the colonization

[@5skdm]

same, i see it as a normal protein source, not meat replacement, so i dont mind its characteristics

[@wildanfatihg]

@@abhigail Well they are STILL saving us from malnourishment, because in some regions they are the main sources of protein, since let's just be honest here, beef is expensive af.

[@thearmyofiron]

tempe is okay, but it definitely doesn't "taste so good"

[@nyuh]

@@thearmyofiron well, its subjective. also depends on how you cook or prepare it, like any other food ingredient.

[@MinuteFood]

Thanks Bright Cellars for sponsoring this video and for the limited-time offer! Click here - bit.ly/BrightCellarsMinuteFood2 - to get your first 6-bottle box (a $150+ value!) for just $60!

[@gilangp2011]

As Muslim, i am curious, is there any different in taste comparing Halal and non Halal food?

[@DanteVelasquez]

I'm one of those people who don't need plant based proteins to taste like meat. I love tofu, tofu skins, tempeh, seitan and TVP just the way they are, as well as beans in many different forms. Vegetarians and vegans have come up with amazing ways to prepare these that are so delicious 🙂

[@DasGanon]

I think the context is also super important! In something like Chili, the texture is more important than the taste!

[@kkmardigrce]

Dante, this is exactly what I was thinking - why come up with fake meat at all when veggies can taste really good? I love vegetables. But I love meat as well...

[@Yupppi]

That's what I wonder about those studies. Everybody I know enjoys veggies better as what they are and even enjoys vegetarian/vegan dishes when they're made to be delicious the way are. But then the studies say that people want meat copies and that's the way you can get people to eat plants instead of meat. Just makes me doubt about the study's conclusions if the results aren't just value thoughts rather than actual findings that reflect to actions in reality.

[@DanteVelasquez]

@@Yupppi It could be because some of us are already predisposed to accepting meat substitutes as they are. When I try to share it with die hard meat eaters they tend to be closed to the idea and think it’s odd or strange. I have made vegetarian dishes and served them to people letting them think it was meat until after they had it and many of those people still refuse to accept that it was a good and viable substitute. To be honest, I actually prefer seitan, tofu and TVP to animal meat.

[@fghsgh]

I have a bunch of really restrictive allergies, which means I'm forced to avoid random foods, and people's first reaction is always "I need to let you taste how great, say, ice cream is, using alternative ingredients" but I don't care. I like my own food better. It also means it would take more effort to go vegetarian (or vegan, I'm allergic to anything that'd make a difference) than my current mental health lets me deal with (and trust me I tried). So instead I just feel bad and pray for forgiveness for all the meat I do eat.

[@AquaLugia]

0:23 didn't expect to see Miu there!

[@epikest]

wtf everything will freeze guy

[@p1nkamena]

samee

[@McNibbler]

TBH as a vegetarian for 4 years, while I do like fake meats from time to time, I think it's honestly just worth giving the protein that doesn't try to mimic meat a try, too. Some well-seasoned and fried tofu for example can honestly be delicious in its own way independent of meat, especially when paired with a complete balanced meal.

[@fariesz6786]

last year i made a chickpea curry and only mentioned that it was vegan as a side-note. it was gone quick. noone even really cared that it had no meat or even dairy in it. and i'm not even vegetarian, i just eat what i like and that only occasionally means meat. i feel like there's too much mental inertia in people's heads when it comes to this, plus too many weird ideas about "needing _a_ protein" in every meal (which is such a weird phrase btw) people who still eat meat every once a week or whatever probably get enough protein either way. even if they work out - our bodies just end up turning protein into energy or refuse to absorb it fully if we stuff ourselves with it. dairy and eggs also have a lot of protein, as do legumes, potatoes, and wholegrain. i get that not everyone likes trying our new things, but i know that for a significant number of people it's more of a perceived complication that doesn't exist in reality (neither nutritionally nor in terms of cooking skill). if you're fine with switching it up, give it a try. there are so many easy dishes that are vegan or vegetarian. buy a couple different beans/lentils/chickpeas and spices, and just try different combinations. there are so many legume curries and stews.

[@Pingwn]

Thanks for recognising that many vegetarians and vegans don't even want food that feels like meat, it just feels wrong when I eat something like that. And besides, I never liked meat that much.

[@NikiHerl]

ngl, I'm already satisfied with the plant-based burgers McDonald's is serving up (here in Austria). I think they taste just as well as beef burgers.

[@MinuteFood]

My hot take is that we should just replace all fast food with plant-based alternatives; fast food nuggets and patties are such a low bar, taste- and texture- wise.

[@benjaminlieberman3932]

@@MinuteFood Absolutely. Meatless meat is one of the great engineering challenges of the 21st century. With enough research, companies could start producing burgers and nuggets undifferentiable from real meat on blind taste tests. With scale, prices will inevitably drop below current meat levels. And your right that sashimi and steak are probably farther off.

[@ArturTheFOE]

@@MinuteFood Genuinely the closest a fake meat product has gotten to the real thing is the plant based burger king burger, it does not taste good at all but it does taste exactly like a burger king burger (In Brazil at least, I've heard their taste varies from country to country)

[@mikkosaarinen3225]

​@@ArturTheFOEBurger king is actually surprisingly good 😄 I mean for being pretty bad 😂 Personally I really like beyond meat patties. Then I don't need them to mimic meat, I just want a good burger, so a slightly different preference. Admittedly I'm also kinda sick of the whole meat mimic conversation 😄 I think it's also bit of a diversion personally. I much prefer food that tastes good and has nice texture. Then again I've been vegan for years now and vegetarian before that. I'm to the point now that I find people's insistence on eating meat just confusing 😂 There's so much good food out there why are people so obsessed with this one kind? I mean it's obviously because it was sold to us as a status symbol and a cultural norm but still. Then again I'm so far marginalized at this point norms just confuse me anyways 😂 I genuinely find it quite silly people insist on stuffing themselves into tiny cultural boxes that make them miserable and then taking their misery out on people who aren't willing to do that 😅 It genuinely confuses me and makes me kinda mad. We spend so much time coddling the people who aren't willing, not talking about the people who aren't able, to put in the work themselves. Often with these people putting up resistance instead of trying to make progress. Sorry about the tirade but this is one of those issue. Eating meat is a choice and anyone can choose to stop. It may not be an easy choice but change rarely comes easy. Again with the caveat that this doesn't apply to people living in food deserts etc. But then again, those aren't the people consuming meat substitutes either. Let's face it, it's middle and upper class people who have all the options that are, often actively, holding us back. Whether it comes to climate justice, racial justice, lgbtqia+ issues etc. Sorry 'bout the tangential rant, just had a fascist government elected in my country. By middle/upper class people, even though poor people obviously get scapegoated.

[@martijn8491]

Agreed with basically everything in your rant ;) (to be fair, also a vegetarian and 90% vegan, trying to become an actual vegan). Although I'm not sure of the middle and higher class people having to take all the blame. Not sure if this is the case everywhere, but in my country, somehow nowadays it's the lower class who tent to vote more and more extreme right, which doesn't make sense. I think it's the fact that they feel miserable, and therefore think that other people should be at least as miserable or even more miserable than they or. And they're just trying to look for easy options for blame, which 'that side of the political spectrum' became really good in abusing, especially when ignoring facts and using social media to spread misinformation. Sooo yeah, I'm not optimistic, but it's nice to see that there are people around thinking the same and having the same frustrations!

[@christianhumer3084]

Kate: There are no companies that blend meat with non meat stuff Sausage Companies that mix tons of water into sausage: *observe*

[@sanzannoryuki]

If you find meat in your sausage, terrible accident has happened in the factory

[@chronometer9931]

That's not true, I've seen at least one company In Canada that produced a hybrid vegan / meat product where it was 50% meat and 50% plant-based meat. It sold in the stores. I think it was maple leaf brand

[@Anolaana]

Yeah, I thought Subway had been putting soy in their patties for years now.

[@bruceschneier6283]

So many people have lmao but i don't call it saving the planet i call it adulterated food when they thin out meat for poor people with flour water and bean paste and shit.

[@lorscarbonferrite6964]

@@Anolaana They have. TVP has been very extensively used in pretty much any form of processed meat product for a while now. Generally, the cheaper it is, the more TVP it'll have.

[@madoakuma4509]

2:44 How to transform a watermelon into a cat: Photoshop it so that it tangle all its proteins like a animal

[@unnamedtoaster]

Honestly I prefer to eat things that fulfill the role of meat without imitating it. For example I enjoy veggie burgers that are just “veggie” and not “you won’t believe this isn’t meat.” Most imitation meat makes me feel sick when I eat it for some reason so I just stick to tofu and beans and such. Kind of a shame to me since I love how meat tastes, but I can’t bare to eat it anymore. Ultimately I’m content with missing out on old favorites like fried chicken though since I’ve found plenty of lovely new dishes to enjoy.

[@Magnulus76]

Impossible Burgers are actually somewhat less healthy than eating an old-fashioned veggie burger, in certain respects. While they have more protein than some veggie burgers, they also have alot more saturated fat.

[@Aeronwor]

What worked for me was meatless weekdays. I find most meatless meats so far off that I rather spend the week eating shrooms, legumes an vegetables, the just eat the steak on saturday.

[@danielhale1]

For accuracy, does the Process-inator 3000 have an easily-accessible self-destruct button? At approximately platypus height, for maximum convenience?

[@PastaAivo]

A lot of the meat-substitutes are actually very tasty. I feel most people/institutions go wrong in trying to blindly replace meat with them, when in actuality you need to adjust the seasoning, spices and the style of the food as a whole to better suit the new ingredient. They are not necessarily replacements, but rather good alternatives (while being more substantial than just eating vegetables).

[@LauPaSat-pl]

They are advertised as alternative, which make people think they can substitute one with the other. And they are something completely different (still tasty, but different)

[@Temulgeh]

as a meat eater, one thing i wonder when you're vegan how do you do stocks? i've tried a bunch of things, mushrooms, kombu, a mix of vegetables, some added nutritional yeast, and even with added MSG to compensate for lack of inosinates, it still lacks the "punch" from meat and fish stocks

[@firstname4337]

Beyond Burgers are DISGUSTING -- it is amazing how something with no meat in it can taste like spoiled meat

[@napilopez]

I'm always surprised by the amount of people that don't get this. Just season your food. For example, before I went fully vegan, I spent a lot of time comparing impossible beef and regular beef and bison. Impossible doesn't taste exactly like normal ground beef but it can be made just as delicious, and has some noticeable cooking advantages over regular beef as well. It mostly just needs a little more fat and another source of umami. It crisps up much more easily than regular beef, doesn't shrink as much, and doesn't get chewy. When overcooked or dry. Sometimes I think these meat alternative companies do themselves a disservice by claiming things can be cooked exactly the same as "regular" meat. Similar techniques, but you need to tweak it.

[@Temulgeh]

@@napilopez do you have a solution for stocks? i can get enough umami into a veggie stock through msg but it's still missing a bunch of stuff: mouthfeel, funk, good fat (i've been told that coconut oil is pretty good in terms of texture, but i'd need to figure out how to add flavors into it that aren't just aromatics but something deeper)

[@joeiswar]

Just me being pedantic but: 4:18 mentioned AHI plant based tuna then at 4:30 mentioned neither the texture the flavor perfectly replicated yellowTAIL ahi/yellowFIN (Thunnus albacares) a type of tuna =/= yellowTAIL (Seriola lalandi) a type of amberjack. It’s common to get it mixed up, but working with fish for over a decade perked my ears up. Other than that loved the video! I occasionally rotate meat substitutes every so often to ease my dependence on animal based proteins. I definitely want to try Finless just to see for myself. 🐟

[@asphere8]

I've been very happy with a lot of plant-based meat substitutes, even as a meat-eater. I live in Canada, where we have a few items you wouldn't have in the States, but there's a brand called Yves here that makes breaded faux-chicken patties that I pick up every time I go camping. Can't tell the difference unless they're side by side with real chicken, and I have fewer worries about food safety and cross-contamination as well! A&W in Canada also serves a Beyond burger that I think is, in many ways, superior to the beef patty. I feel the same about Burger King's Impossible burger. They've become my default orders at those fast food restaurants!

[@TheBusyJane]

We have yves in the US, at least the city where am. I've never been a fan of the things I've tried, they taste really artificial. I've never had the patties. Gonna give them a shot.

[@allanjmcpherson]

We also had Very Good Butchers until recently. Shame they went out of business!

[@huraqan3761]

I'd argue there's a problem with the phrase "They've become my default orders at those fast food restaurants" but i guess that's another story.

[@allanjmcpherson]

@@huraqan3761 and what exactly is that problem?

[@huraqan3761]

@@allanjmcpherson yo big momma!

[@exploshaun]

The approach of mixing real and fake meat together makes so much sense, but I have no idea how anyone would market it.

[@givrally]

6:10 "An research shows that the fact that their taste and texture aren't quite there does keep people from buying and eating these products" That sounds a lot like... any other food product out there. If I don't like the taste and texture of, say, McDonald's fries, I just won't buy them. Likewise, if I don't think beyond meat is close to actual meat in texture or taste, why should it be any different ? I don't need research to be able to tell that a food product that has neither taste or texture going for it and guilt tripping as its only marketing strategy is doomed to fail.

[@OldShatterham]

I haven't really noticed it until now, but this video made me realize that most times when I buy some vegan/vegetarian meat-like product, it is indeed in some more processed form like a burger patty, (non-)chicken nugget, or ground beef. In fact, I can't recall even seeing alternatives that look more like a regular steak in my local store. On a side-note, I would be really interested in a video going deeper into the whole processed food topic!

[@dustmybroom288]

There used to be a company on Vancouver Island Called The Good Butchers that made vegetarian ribs, stake, sausages and cheese

[@ryanwillingham]

one time i found a vegan carne asada steak at my local supermarket. it was by a brand called meati that makes mushroom-based meat substitutes and it was great. i recommend it!

[@MauroTamm]

I have tried and retried various items from the alt aisles and they do not taste good. There are often some weird, unappetising side flavours or smells.

[@Backbeardjack99]

I really do appreciate you making these videos! As someone who lived vegetarian at first and later on completely vegan for multiple years now, I still occasionally do miss the taste and texture of real meat. I haven't tried real meat in a long time and so that's probably why, to me, a lot of fake-meats taste pretty close to what I want. But if I were to compare it side by side to the real thing, I'd probably be pretty disappointed. Before I became vegetarian and then vegan, I was known as the guy who loves meat in his dishes more than anything else. Looking back, this is kinda ironic. But why do I pratlle about myself here? Well, with that context in mind I wanted to ask if you could do an episode on exclusively vegan cooking for "former" meat lovers like me. Making vegan dishes in such a way that they pack the meaty-umami punch is (to me) an art itself. And lab science, if you look at how many powdered chemicals you can use to tweak different aspects like consistency, taste, colour and smell. The youtuber SauceStache is doing this type of work and has a lot of really interesting insights on how to make vegan dishes that could satisfy meat lovers. But making meat-dishes with fake-meat isn't really the way to go in my experience. That's why I would love to know more about the science on how to make plant based dishes, without fake-meat, that give the same satisfaction as dishes with real meat. I really do enjoy your videos and would love to see your take on this Kate! :D

[@whitetiana3022]

another problem is that these replacement products aren't cheap enough. i might be motivated to eat an impossible burger once in a while if it cost about half of regular meat but it actually costs slightly more.

[@nerdwisdomyo9563]

Insert how meat alternatives are heavily under subsidized compared to animal meat yada yada yada something something

[@Arkylie]

Love mushrooms, and really enjoyed the Quorn chicken strips in... I think it was a curry? that my friends made one night. Pretty close to the texture I was after, and delicious! The one issue with Mycoprotein is that *some people have an extreme allergic reaction* to them -- which is basically an undiscovered Mold Allergy. I've heard some "don't try it!" because of that, but honestly, that's like saying "don't eat peanuts!" because some people are deathly allergic to peanuts. Just, probably best for your first encounter with Mycoprotein to be done in company, in case it turns out that you do have a mold allergy, 'cuz apparently it can trigger an *extreme* reaction.

[@LemonArsonist]

I only managaed to go veggie when I did because meat alternatives were finally good enough. The push and pull between how much I loved meat and how much I loved animals was strong! Quorn is basically my patron saint now

[@WindsorMason]

Mushroom powers activate!

[@Fafner888]

You should've instead focused on the much more important question: do these products have the nutritional value of meat, and is it healthy/safe to consume them on a regular basis? (being processed food and all of that). Please consider making another video covering these questions, thanks.

[@HelloOnepiece]

Easiest solution is to turn back to the recipes of the old day when meat was expensive. Put more beans in that Chili

[@ZetaPyro]

My cousin started a small business making sausages filled with part meat and part vegetables to try to reduce (but not to zero) one's meat consumption. They're pretty good! She sells them at Whole Foods, among other places.

[@RedXiongmao]

The thumbnail is reminding me of "corn on the cob but instead of the corn bone it's a hotdog"

[@objective_psychology]

It's a breath of fresh air to see a take like this from an objective perspective, without trying to convert us into or out of veganism and without pushing some product. Well done. I only wish the commenters could adopt the same mindset at large.

[@BaroTheMadman]

Honestly when you've given up meat for long enough, some products like Beyond Burger are just close enough for you because you have kind of forgotten the taste of a burger made from a cow. And it's still delicious if prepared well. I don't feel I have sacrified anything by giving up on meat

[@uniworkhorse]

"Meat-Lite" dishes seem like a very interesting and cool concept. I would assume that the biggest issue as another commenter mentioned would be the marketing. Honestly a lot of veggies made with just the pan sauce from meat are so good, maybe we need a better name to push plant-majority meals.

[@kellywelz5398]

I enjoy meat by itself, but when I cook at home, I try to use meat as a way to flavor the other ingredients or simply add protein to a dish that's heavy in other stuff. For instance, I make chili that is roughly 1/3 meat, 1/3 beans and 1/3 tomatoes, peppers, onion and other veg. It's delicious!

[@colleenmarin8907]

My go-to Instant pot meal is: 16-oz rice, 32-oz broth, 1 can of great northern beans, 1 package tofu (diced), 1 can of chicken, 1 bag of Wegmans frozen cauliflower puree, 1 bag/package of fresh baby spinach, season to taste. Add other veggies based on taste and/or availability. This way everyone in the household enjoys a meal that has a variety of protein sources, and can agree upon eating (bonus for fewer pans to wash)

[@niftimalcompression]

3:18 what writing is that on the bottle? it looks like ithkuil? does it mean anything?

[@ScienceTechComputers]

There is a black bean burger sold at a restaurant that I go to and it is sooo good. They add spices to the bean patty and use pico de gallo as a sauce for the burger.

[@aarone9000]

I'm fine with black bean; I wish they had a larger diameter.

[@ScienceTechComputers]

@@aarone9000 all depends on who made it

[@morbidhime]

Black bean burgers are delicious! Way better than the patties they try too hard to taste like meat imo

[@sc4rf4ce1983]

A lot of the plant alternative offerings don't compare when it comes to protein composition.

[@napilopez]

Concerns of protein composition are vastly overrated. If you're an athlete performing at the peak of human ability, then sure, maybe it matters a *little*. Otherwise, the protein you get from fake meats is effectively just as good. This concern was something I got hung up on before I went vegan, as I was a powerlifter at the time, but I've noticed literally no change in my ability to gain strength since going vegan, and a growing body of research seems to back up my anecdotal experience.

[@sc4rf4ce1983]

@@napilopez it's mathematics if your body requires 60 grams of protein a day for example and the vegan food with meat alternatives you're eating only contains 30 grams of protein then you're deficient. I've seen plenty of "meat free" meat burgers that may only contain about 12 grams of protein when an actual meat burger would contain 25 grams with similar calorie numbers. This is only based on what I've observed from reading the nutrient contents in supermarkets and not saying all meat alternatives don't have enough protein.

[@TheMightyDozen]

and again i spot ithkuil (e.g. @3:43), i swear if minute food becomes the reason i study ithkuil...

[@andrew_ray]

All right, where's John Quijada? Or David Peterson sang some songs in Ithkuil. Who can translate this?

[@matchc0635]

mixing real meat with plant-based meat sounds like a good idea ngl, but it does reminded me of that video which they tried to replace ricecake with sawdust and see if people notices.

[@sriramn1809]

Ive been seeing a few videos from this channel over the week, and i really like how the content is delivered. This comment isnt specific to this video in particular but the channel in general. It feels like its just a person giving their genuine thoughts on whatever is the topic at hand while also providing the facts/truths on top. Which is something i really appreciate and enjoy. Personally speaking, the facts and truths do stand out and are more meaningful only when they are contrasted by something else, like genuine thoughts that are partially/fully right, or even flat out wrong. This is very different from other video structures where they reach out for thoughts and words which abide by said facts/truths, so every point makes sense and "flows well", i agree this makes for a consise and clean video, but that to me is not entertaining, informative or engaging content. Keep up the good work, subscribed.

[@moo3oo3oo3]

I never thought about replacing only a portion of meat with non-meats! This makes this movement seems so much more plausible!!

[@ALE199-ita]

Imma be honest, I don't care about the animals, I care for which is cheaper and what I can eat without being disgusted. if Plant based meat food tastes like real meat or atleast close enough and is cheaper then real meat, I'd buy it everyday

[@AlthenaLuna]

My first thought at seeing the title: "the one people can **afford** to eat?" Food's already expensive - especially the "healthy" stuff - and chicken and at least some cuts of pork are more affordable than a lot of other foods, notably their alternatives (beef's a more expensive food regardless of cut and quality). No matter how tasty they might be, cost's always gonna be a barrier to entry. Thought as watching: KITTY! Your cohost is cute, I hope they didn't mind participating too much.

[@L83467]

yeah, this is my problem with fake meat. cause it gets people to think that veganism is expensive when it actually isn't. unprocessed vegan proteins (beans, lentils, tofu) are so much cheaper than meat

[@pinklmaonade]

0:23 Never thought I would see Miu Iruma referenced in MinuteFood lol

[@Endrance88]

Just wish they were cheaper...

[@CruzMonrreal]

Looking forward 4:04 to the peocessed foods deep dive. After realizing and avoiding as much if it as possible (white bread, anything with "enriched" flour, anything cooked with vegetable oils, etc...) I've never felt better!

[@Perma10]

Mmhmm wise choice. I never feel better then when I have a nice organic grass fed and finished steak / meal

[@heychrisfox]

I don't know why more stores don't sell seitan. It's AMAZING. Way better than tofu, way easier to cook properly, and as long as you give it some flavor during the cooking process, it's extremely similar to meat, especially if you're doing BBQ. But I never see it sold anywhere. It's really hard to find, compared to tofu, which you can find pretty much anywhere. Wheat is king.

[@DIYDSP]

I love seitan for its sheer protein density.

[@enoyna1001]

People are brainwashed to avoid gluten, and some of them are legitimetaly allergic to it or have an intollerance. And it's not a great protein source on its own but fantastic when combined with tofu/tempeh.

[@Magnulus76]

The only problem with seitan, or wheat gluten, is that it's a relatively poor quality protein, nutritionally speaking, compared to soy, or even just compared to any legume. Wheat gluten works best combined with pea or soy protein, for instance, in many processed vegetarian/vegan foods.

[@heychrisfox]

@@Magnulus76 My issue is that, as a person you used to be vegetarian: I don't care. Seitan tastes good. I eat what tastes best, and when I was veg, that was seitan. That's how most people operate. They don't care about nutrition density or comparing variable legumes. They just wanna eat something yummy.

[@knpark2025]

Average tofu/mushroom enjoyer here. I was surprised when I learned my diet is technically flexitarian.

[@kateisblue]

Ive been so delighted to see how good the fake meats have gotten in the 10 years since i became vegetarian. Recently ive seen a big improvement in fish and seafood style! E.g. vegan prawns/battered fish. Vegan 'Milk' chocolate is slowly improving too, im just DYING for them to figure out cheese properly 😭 definitely the furthest from having a good replacement imo

[@crimsonraen]

This is a great video! :) There are definitely a lot of great options out there to help reduce our impact.

[@HayTatsuko]

One of my happiest fake-meat finds was Morningstar Farms' breakfast sausage patties. They actually do come across somewhat like the real thing in texture and flavor, but the real stars are the hot-and-spicy and the maple-flavored ones, which both hit really well in their own ways. The Impossible Whopper is pretty satisfying too -- the custom-designed Impossible patty goes well with the veggie accompaniment for me. I've also had a number of Quorn's mycoprotein products and found them decent as a meatlike meat substitute -- thought it was very clever that the creators of Quorn found a way to weave fungal hyphae into an almost meat-muscle form.

[@DeRien8]

The biggest thing that keeps me from eating less meat, which is decently low anyway, is convenience and price. I have less time to spend cooking food at home, and that 70%off manager's special section is a lifesaver. At least I can say I almost never go out of my way to buy meat, and aim for the products that drive less demand and therefore end up as "if this isn't purchased today, we're throwing it out" stuff. Wish I still had more time to dumpster dive. Much less expensive way to keep both animal and plant foods from being wasted

[@L83467]

that's great! i'm sure youre probably already doing this but beans and lentils are cheaper than meat so maybe try incorporating them into your diet

[@saratormenta4687]

Maybe we just need to accept that just because something tastes good doesn't mean we absolutely need to eat it. Especially when there is a whole world of other stuff that also tastes good but is also ethical. Missing out on meat is not so dramatic imo...

[@chronometer9931]

Your ethics are arbitrary, keep them to yourself. There may be a world of other stuff, but it's not your right to choose for other people...

[@theMrFouldsy]

​@@chronometer9931not arbitrary at all. It's not YOUR right to choose to rape, imprison, torture, and murder animals, but you seem to be okay forcing that choice on them. Why is someone expressing their views a problem?

[@usernaperson]

seeing a cat on a thumbnail for this PARTICULAR channel stunned me for a sec LMAOO

[@migueljoserivera9030]

I never got to understand people that are strict vegans on enviromental basis. Most of them only look at averages between how much impact a given amount of a broad tipe of food causes on the enviroment (e.g: meat vs vegetables), but never question the more harmful, land intensive or pollutant vegetables, while they overlook many fish, molusci, arthropodes and secondary products as milk, eggs and honey which can be more enviromentally friendly than long distance transport and industrial transformation of vegetables.

[@TheInfectous]

tbh I really doubt there's any people making dietary choices out of concern for the environment, maybe it's something they see but if it's really your only concern you'd likely look into it and see it's really not a clear thing. I'd bet it's just something people say because it's something people say rather than something that's a grounded reason. I think really the driving force is cost, health concerns (some people don't process meat very well), cultural reasons but primarily compassion for animals and whatever their parents raised them on. Probably the last one is the most important.

[@m136dalie]

Don't most fast food chains already substitute a lot of the meat in their products for non-meat substances? When I get a burger from McDonald's for example, I highly doubt that the beef patty is actually 100% beef without any additives. Could be wrong but intuitively it makes sense they'd add wheat or other substances to dilute the expensive part of their product.

[@juliav.mcclelland2415]

Burgatory's impossible burger tastes just like meat imo.

[@chronometer9931]

No it doesn't

[@morbidhime]

Miu Iruma easter egg was unexpected

[@jumpy8138]

someone else noticed that besides me 😭😭😭

[@TheSunshineBlak]

There are plenty of blended products ( meat products bulked out with lots of non meat food) in most modern grocery stores. Meat is expensive so companies that make ultra processed meat products will often cut it with cheaper filler ingredients. I saw a pack of nuggets that the ingredient lable could only legally claim was 50% chicken by weight

[@L83467]

this. like the cheapest meat pies i can find bulk out the beef with tvp

[@MatthewTheWanderer]

If only meat alternatives weren't even more expensive than meat itself, which is already too expensive, then maybe I'd consider eating it more often. I've tried it a couple of times and actually liked it (but not as much as the real thing).

[@arghc]

If you're making a meat dish with a sauce (stir fries, pasta, etc) then this carnivore can easily substitute at least 50% off the shelf tofu (firm-extra firm for stir fries, medium-firm for ground meat) combined with actual meat for a reduced meat meal.

[@xwtek3505]

Actually most meat dishes, at least in my country, already has tofu in it.

[@ImperialEminence22]

tHeN tHiS cArNiVoRe

[@Demopans5990]

Add in some spices and you basically describe Sichuan Mapo Tofu

[@kylespevak6781]

Never understood why they make it meat flavored. Just make it good

[@rammerstheman]

I really like this idea of using small amounts of meat for flavour. I love cooking and have pretty much stopped buying meat... with a couple of exceptions. 1. Good quality, outdoor bred smoked streaky bacon 😍 2. Animal stock. Just adding a couple of rashes of bacon to lots of recipes adds soo much flavour. But my overall consumption stays low - good for the budget too! I figure the flavour gains from stock cubes are huge and I think/ hope that the bits of meat that go into stock cubes are the cheap leftover parts that might otherwise go to waste. This has almost gone very wrong for me on a couple of occasions when offering 'actual' vegetarian friends a try of my 'veggie' bolognese only to remember at the last minute it has a rasher of bacon in it!

[@eliljeho]

I have found things to enjoy that aren't meat. Falafel is one of them.

[@NigraXXL]

If only more of the unapologetical "I know meat is bad but I love it too much! Believe me I eat it with a feeling of guilt" cared a bit more about the environment (not to even mention animals) than their absolutely non-negotiable food preferences... It's noble what companies are doing, but having to come to this, companies all about mimicking meat perfectly just so the hyper-stubborn ones can (even consider) stopping their real meat consumption is so saddening :/

[@avronthecorrupted2781]

That’s kinda just what happens when you try to replace a tradition that’s lasted the entirety of human history.

[@amberallen7809]

Not to mention, there actually ARE medical conditions that can make it hard or impossible to go completely animal product free. If you have a lot of the common plant allergies (soy, nuts, latex, etc) you'd find it difficult. And some people with epilepsy find that the best/ only treatment their condition responds to is the original Keto diet (which is even more extreme with the high fat, no carbs thing than the keto diet some people follow) Animal agriculture has a lot of medical uses as well. As long as people exist, so will animal agriculture and use. We CAN make a better system though. I do agree that the current system is unsustainable and often horrific.

[@NigraXXL]

@@amberallen7809 Absolutely valid points. It's more of an edge case, though. Most people just don't want to change their habits out of just liking the taste of stuff and preferring not to go over the adaptation period to like better alternatives.

[@logancontracier7125]

My only problem with plant based meat products or being purely vegan or vegetarian is the lack of transparency on the number of animals potentially killed to til the land in a big ass tractor. Animals live underground too and when you gotta dig up the dirt the animals end up becoming fertilizer for you crop.

[@reluginbuhl]

Perhaps you should ask yourself if it's morally right to kill animals just so you can have a meal when there are non-violent plant-based alternatives? What makes humans special is our ability to make moral choices and not just follow what we observe in nature (murder, rape, theft... we chose not to do these things... I hope.)

[@kulled]

when it's free of dyes, emulsifiers, artificial flavorings, soy, and isn't being pushed as part of a greenwashing campaign i will absolutely make the switch.

[@GigaDavy91]

so why not combine cultured meat with mycoprotein? I still eat meat, but if we can reduce a lot animal suffering, why shouldn't we do it?

[@MinuteFood]

Basically all lab-grown meat IS hybrid - companies include non-animal products for both structure and to reduce cost. I don't specifically know of any using mycoprotein (it's mostly plant-based, AFAIK) but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens or is already happening!

[@KuruGDI]

Just by looking at the thumbnail I'm already curios MinuteFood will cook the cat! I would probably stew it 😋 ... but I guess you could also bake or deep fry it. There is more than one way to skin a cat 😸

[@TheWasher18]

As someone who raises and butchers my own chickens and ducks (I live in the suburbs of chicago) I'll never go back to shopping at any grocery store for meats.

[@ZaDussault]

I made a vegan burger recipe with insects in it. That makes it non vegan anymore, but the taste was definitely way closer to actual meat. The texture was not there, but it's because I used mealworms and those have a pretty intense texture in themselves. With insects that have less chitin, that would work very great

[@chronometer9931]

Disgusting

[@pqrs_987]

1:09 exactly.... that's why i don't like Beyond/Impossible burgers; i've tried them a couple of times and got that metallic meat-like taste... there are so many cuisines around the world which are meat-light or meat-free (and have been so for centuries) but unfortunately we live on this side of the Atlantic where that knowledge doesn't seem to have reached

[@chronometer9931]

Why does any of that matter to you? You have access to those things do you not? They're not lost...

[@OPGardevoir]

Ok?

[@babilon6097]

We already have good process to turn plants into meat. The taste matches, colour and texture are OK. But it's grossly inefficient and cruel. This process is called "a cow". Or alternatively "a chicken". Ok. Ok. I am nitpicking at semantics. I know what you meant and I agree with you.

[@MistSoalar]

it's like a driving hybrid car before switching to electric

[@smurfyday]

If meat eaters have to pay for their economic damage, there will be a lot more vegetarians, pescatarians, etc. That's a death knell for any politicians in America right now, but maybe the rest of the world can start leading the way

[@NathanDudani]

Economic damage?

[@Peter2k84]

Fine, but only if the vegan food alternatives can finally prove they are actually better for the environment. Which not a single company or product has done. No one has ever proven almond milk to be better environmentally than cows milk. Almond trees take a ton of water in areas already under draught pressure. And no vegan product has ever proven to have a lower carbon footprint. And btw, we do, meat costs more than beans. Also I find it always funny how the staunchest advocates of being carnivore have been Vegans for years before they became carnivores. All of the of tremendous health issues, that went away ditching veganism.

[@Somebodyherefornow]

@@NathanDudaniCO2 emissions by meat (actually vegeterians and pesceterians are pretty high too; vegans are very low)

[@Somebodyherefornow]

@@NathanDudaniand public health die to celebrities promoying food that give you heart disease

[@alicec1533]

@@NathanDudani Governments subsidize animal farming; I imagine they're referring to that. If they would incur the costs themselves, instead of being artificially propped up...

[@tic857]

tbh the more plant based foods look, smell, taste and sometimes feel like meat, the more scared I am. Because I hang out with people who are vegetarian and vegan, a few of them are quite the health nut, but I am not plant based. I am MOSTLY plant based but due health reasons, allergies and sensitivities I am not. And the unfortunate thing....some of these folks...I'm not entirely good friends with them, because they legitimately do not understand what a food allergy means. They have this weird notion that plants are a panacea, and I'm terrified of the day where someone tries to "Trick" me with a plant burger and I end up calling 911. I already had an incident with a vegan guy who tried to give me GF bread because he thinks that I was being stubborn about going gluten free, and I spat it out after tasting it because it was almond flour and I'm allergic to almonds.

[@bobowon5450]

I feel ya. I've got crohns disease and the only way i can survive without severe pain is to practically eat keto, if I tried to eat a mostly vegan diet I'd be right back into the hospital

[@melodysmusicaladventures596]

I tried an impossible burger once, it tasted like moldy greasy tofu. Also awesome video :D

[@Zaxares]

I wouldn't be THAT harsh on it, but yeah, it was definitely no substitute for a real beef patty. XD The "fat" components felt wrong, like they were in small clumps throughout the patty like chocolate chips rather than a marbled-sort of texture you normally get with animal fats. And it also lacked the umami/savoriness of actual meat; the one I had tried to cover it up by adding a LOT of salt (which is probably not very healthy either!), making it far too salty to be really nice. Granted, this was like 4 years ago so they might have improved their formula since then, but in all honesty, I'm rooting WAY more for the lab-grown meat approach rather than trying to turn plant protein into an animal protein facsimile.

[@ArturTheFOE]

@@Zaxares I tried Impossible Burgers about a year ago and they taste really close to those cheap frozen supermarket patties, which is not surprising considering those are a mix of meat scraps and TVP.

[@DoctorX17]

Impossible has gotten to a point where I'd be willing to eat them more often than real meat... but so far, when available, they're still more expensive, which for me is a reason not to go for them. But also a lot of places still don't have them. The blended mycoprotein with animal proteins sounds like it might be a promising way to reduce costs while also getting non-animal proteins into more dishes

[@ErikratKhandnalie]

This is a big one for me. I'm never going to buy plant based meat substitutes unless they significantly cheaper, rich they really are not.

[@DoctorX17]

@@ErikratKhandnalie Yeah... last time I looked at Impossible burgers it was like $10 for 4 patties, whereas I could get a 12 pack of premade beef patties for like $16, or enough ground beef to make a dozen burgers for like $12

[@L83467]

@@ErikratKhandnalie you should try eating more beans and lentils then, cause they're so much cheaper than meat!

[@ErikratKhandnalie]

@@L83467 they also don't taste much like meat. But, a lentil soup or a black bean burger is still really good in it's own right

[@pariscloud2907]

Nothing wrong with eating meat.

[@hedgehogmind3186]

Yes but there is something wrong with how we acquire meat.

[@pariscloud2907]

@@hedgehogmind3186 I'd be for more humane animal raising, but trying to replace meat is silly. I think I will eat that burger for lunch now.

[@Somebodyherefornow]

heart problems

[@Somebodyherefornow]

co2 emmisions

[@Somebodyherefornow]

ethical consedirations

[@sadsongs7731]

I worry a lot that consuming only fake meat can result in nutritional deficiencies that are not being published because it hurts the fake meat industry. :/ I often hear about vegetarian and vegan people suffering nutritional deficiencies. I think making fake meat should be secondary to just making tasty food. Maybe plant and fungi alternatives would be tastier if they just stopped trying to be meat.

[@jer103]

From the video "Protein is not protein. Here's why" on the channel "What I've Learned", not all proteins are equal. The body absorbs proteins differently. There is a scale that grades how the body will use a certain food's protein. It's called a food's DIAAS, or "Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score".

[@elimik31]

Yes, that's true, but it's not a reason not to eat more plant-based food. Many vegetarian protein sources (e.g. chickpeas, tofu,...) have scores close to that of meat, the difference is not orders of magnitude. And the average western person has no deficiencies in protein, but most people don't hit the recommendations for consumption of fibres, which you get from plants. So most people would benefit health-wise from eating more plants and less meat. Being completely vegan requires some more careful meal-planning, but getting enough protein is not a big hurdle.

[@jer103]

@@elimik31 The channel "What I've Learned" also did a video on Veganism. It was called: "Vegan diets don't work. Here's why". It was an objective look into vegans. He didn't bring up that plant protein isn't enough, only that you need more. The main thing about vegan diets is you don't get certain nutrients through that diet, especially b12.

[@psiEnergos]

I'm late to the party here, but found this video very informative. Thanks!

[@UnnamedThinkTank]

Actually the concept of mixing stuff into meat isn't new. That is how patty fillers came about. Sure you are not 100% removing all meat, but if you are reducing by say 30% to 40%, that still helps a ton. And it is a good interim solution. As for "impossible meats", I already frown at the processed nature of ham and spam a like... These guys are even more processed, so ain't touching them.

[@sophroniel]

My mum has always used TVP to bulk up meat. You can double your amount of "meat" which is very economical and cost-saving, and it's not an unknown chemical cocktail like I feel many artificial meats are.

[@exodus6273]

So we're just not gonna talk about how a large chunk of the fake meat is extremely unhealthy and heavily processed seed oils, or how plant protein is of much poorer quality (DIAAS) and processed less easily? Man

[@zakosist]

The lack of mentioning that makes it seem like the video is biased. It doesn't matter to them if people actually get reduced quality of life/health in some aspects as long as they achieve their goal of people cutting down meat. Not denying veganism can have some health benefits too, like lower risk of heart disease and cancer. Thats probably legit (at least really should be with how often its talked about), and wouldn't be bad to mention. But both sides need mentioning then. Personally Id rather live a shorter life than live with reduced quality of life, but my grandma was an omnivore who lived till 90 anyway and still fairly active (for the age) at 80. My personal experience is veganism is terrible and a diet with more meat (still including fruits, vegetables, herbs and some starches) gives considerably more energy, better digestion, better hunger satisfaction and better quality of sleep (animal fats important for that)

[@exodus6273]

I agree buddy but I hope you also know that a strict vegan diet is unsustainable, there is no group of people on Earth who have consistently lived off of a vegan diet and most people, even its' biggest advocats such as celebrities and KZbinrs whose entire channel revolves around their vegan diet, eventually quit it due to it affecting their health negatively. Up until recently, before the discovery of synthetic B12 vitamin supplements, a vegan diet would've been impossible to lead a healthy lifestyle with (not that it's healthy now)@@zakosist

[@zakosist]

​@@exodus6273 Not sure if that's true or there could be some isolated tribe that has lived on vegan diet for generations. But if so that would still only be applicable to their specific ethnicity. We may have yet to test it out if it works on a generational level but there is a good chance we shouldn't, especially if kids show signs of not thriving. The clips I have seen of vegan kids they looked abnormally pale. Im sure people generally can survive on a vegan diet but in many cases still not thrive. And there may be some people who legit could not even survive. An inuit and other arctic people would most likely not survive. Ethnicity is probably greatly underestimated. People with certain health conditions or too many food intolerance as well. For the b12 I heard its actually found naturally in wild growing plants (not sure if sufficient amounts) and algea, but modern agriculture is too sterile.

[@jolteon693]

Chinese food does a surprisingly good job at making vegan dishes taste good. There’s also a lot of vegan dishes that are just meat dishes but with the meat replaced. My favourite is red braised winter melon and fish-flavoured eggplant

[@Demopans5990]

Soy sauce, and high temperature wok cooking.

[@SCEzeric]

I've tried several different meat substitutes over the years and some are pretty good, even if they don't taste like meat. My wife has mostly sworn off after a little incident where either the impossible or beyond meat patty tried to unalive her by causing necrosis of the large intestine. She thought it was just her appendix but the surgery changed course to handle the intestine.

[@goodlearnerbadstudent756]

Its funny that they are so hung up about texture, when various cuisines and chef come up with many fancy methods of cooking that change the texture of meat. E.g a braise has a different texture from a steak, whiich has a different texture from burgers. I think focusing on price and health are more important than texture.

[@xparadoxical69]

I'd love to taste fungi-based meat if it's supposed to mimic meat so well

[@MinuteFood]

It's pretty widely commercially available (although I don't know where you live) - here in the US, it's marketed under several brands, including Quorn and Meati. Just look for "mycoprotein" on the label!

[@barneylaurance1865]

@@MinuteFood Or Mushroom Root / Mycelium in the case of Meati - even though both brands technically use molds, not mushrooms. Fusarium venenatum in Quorn, neurospora crassa in Meati.

[@westybestie]

I like Morning Star Chik'n more than "real" chicken nuggets. It just has great flavor and nice texture. Unfortunately, my family who has tried it said it tastes like rubber.

[@Vexcenot]

I remember given a vegan fried meat in a super market once it almost tasted like meat at first but then quickly tasted like plastic with that lingering after taste

[@randomthoughts6680]

I remember when my grandma was hospitalized, I (the companion) had "faux meat" at the refectory everyday and I mostly couldn't tell it wasn't really meat until the day we had Carrot-rolls that were made of jack fruit. I remember asking the staff what meat was that because it was tearing apart so easily (we only had plastic cutlery, so I was impressed) and she said it was actually fruit cooked to look and taste like meat. None of the meat was actual meat, except during dinnertime, the time they had less companions to feed. The secret was meat flavor enhancer (which does contain traces of marrow) and the minced meat was deep into tomato sauce. (and when it was dry minced meat I just mixed with the rice, so I didn't noticed the difference in flavor and assumed it was less salt). Still, I wouldn't eat those everyday if I could, but it was the first "fake meat" that I actually liked. Be sure: fake meat is expensive, they just seasoned fruits and veggies with meat seasoning. The hospital feeds (4 meals a day) the companions because it is far from the main city, it attends a lot of people out of the said city and most patients there need constant vigilance.

[@elimik31]

Combinations of meat/fish and other protein/energy sources have always existed in the past, as meat was scarce and expensive. For example Mapo-Doufu in Chinese cuisine, which is spicy tofu often served with minced meat (though a vegetarian versions exist, too) or German lentil stew with sausages. And many kinds of processed meats such as meat balls or sausages can be thought of as stretched-out means. They didn't really reduce meat consumption, instead they made it more affordable. Not sure if "stretching out" meat with plant-based protein will really help reduce meat-consumption, it will make people feel better eating that product compared to a pure-meat product and it might result in them eating more of that. Personally, I think among some people it's helpful to normalize and make it easy to not eat meat. Among my university colleagues almost 1 in 3 (to 4) seems to at least try being vegetarian, it helps when you are not the only one and our cafeteria always has vegan and vegetarian offers, which helps too. But this will never work for everyone, so we need other incentives.

[@Magnulus76]

In the US, during the Great Depression, when food prices became somewhat unaffordable, people started substituting beans for some of the meat in chili, and beans became a staple ingredient of midwestern chili. Even a few decades ago in the US, actual meat consumption was sometimes lower. Most working class people ate things like chili with beans or meatloaf (which has alot of breadcrumbs and oats). In the 70's there was even a little bit of a fad of using texturized vegetable protein smuggled into burgers as a filler, a practiced that continued in institutional cooking afterwards.

[@KalijahAnderson]

There are many of us that have no intention to ever give up real meat. No amount of processing is really going to fool anyone that might define themselves as a carnivore.

[@eragon78]

I mean, there are also synthesized meat products being developed now. They are real actual meat, that are made by growing cells in lab as opposed to growing full animals. They are still vastly better for the environment as a good alternative to traditional meat. Those could definitely work and would taste just like real meat since they ARE real meat.

[@KalijahAnderson]

@@eragon78 At the moment, acording to University California Davis, Lab grown meat takes more energy and is worse for the environment that normal animal meat. Quoting them, "by orders of magnitude". The cost to the environment of lab grown meat is 4 to 25 times greater than retail beef depending on the exact process being used. I get you might not have known that, so I figured I would share that info with you.

[@eragon78]

@@KalijahAnderson I did know that, but the technology is also in its infancy. 10 years go it was hundreds of times more expensive than it is today. All sorts of revolutionary technologies start off like that. And yea, I wasnt saying its a good alternative RIGHT NOW. That wasnt my point. My point was that it has a lot of promise as a future alternative. Also, the statement saying it produces way more CO2 isnt necessarily 100% accurate either. It heavily depends on the method being used. I saw numbers on the CO2 footprint being anywhere in the ballpark of 4% that of natural meat to 2400%. Its a huge range because of the various different methods, as well as the massive differences in scale needed for experimentation vs commercial applications. Things tend to be far more efficient at commercial levels. But yea, the point is, the technology is developing rapidly. 10 years ago it was magnitudes of degrees worse than it is today, and I suspect in 10-20 years from now, itll be magnitudes of degrees better. The point is that its possible and has already been done, so now it just comes down to making the process more efficient in both price and CO2 emissions. Both are far easier tasks to managed with a new technology once its been proven to work.

[@KalijahAnderson]

@@eragon78 I was going off the statement that you said 'They are still vastly better for the environment' but if you take into account the energy costs of making the growth medium for it alone, it's more 'expensive' to the environment than retail beef. It might get better, but evolution has had a very long time to make growing animals as energy efficient as it can. Though likely not perfect, I think we have a very very long way before we can outdo nature on that end.

[@eragon78]

@@KalijahAnderson Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear about that, since its really just the best case thats better for the environment. (Some processes reported only 4% the emissions of traditional meat). But yea, that does depend quite a lot on the specific process being used, and a lot of other factors, and some process are much worse as of right now. Also, evolution's goal isnt to produce meat in a highly efficient manor, so its not really all that optimized for it at all. Most of the energy that goes into meat production is used just to keep the animal alive long enough to grow up, which makes it VERY inefficient in terms of energy to meat production. So its really wouldnt be all that hard at all. The difference with meat cultivation is that the energy goes directly to producing more cells of the final production. That cell culture doesnt need to grow up into a full animal with expensive metabolic functions to keep it alive for years. As soon as the cells divide enough times, the process is over and they can be harvested. This makes the process inherently far more energy efficient than traditional animals. Thats why in terms of food, water, and land, its already VASTLY more efficient than traditional meat, and in terms of CO2 production, it varies wildly, but the best scenarios put it as vastly more efficient as well, although that one is far more variable. Also, in terms of CO2 production, not all industrial processes create CO2, and something requiring more energy doesnt even necessarily mean it produces more CO2. Energy =/= CO2. The reason livestock is vastly worse for the environment are due to byproducts of bodily functions like the production of methane which they burp or fart out. This bodily function simply doesnt exist with cultivated meats as you arent keeping a full animal alive, just a subsection of specific types of cells. This means that by default they wont produce as much CO2 by themselves. What produces all the Emissions with current processes boils down to the production of equipment, energy usage from powering that equipment, and manufacturing the nutrients the cultivated cells need. I would bet the majority of the CO2 emissions likely come from the electricity usage, but this is actually great news since thats pretty easy to fix. Current electricity in countries like the US are produced mainly with fossil fuels, so it has a high carbon footprint. But you can easily produce the SAME amount of electricity but with vastly lower emissions by using different power production methods like renewables or Nuclear. Any green energy source has vastly lower CO2/KWH production. Switching to those energy sources would mean that anything which produces the majority of its emissions due to electricity usage would VASTLY drop in how many emissions they actually produce. And we already have the technology to completely move away from fossil fuels, so this problem is already solved technologically, it just needs to actually be implemented. So if that is the bulk of the emissions, then by simply switching to greener electricity generation, the high CO2 footprint almost entirely would go away. The same is NOT true from the CO2 footprint of livestock, because methane is an incredibly potent greenhouse gas, that is produced as a byproduct of living animals, especially in beef production. Those greenhouse gasses are unavoidable unlike the greenhouse gasses associated with electricity production. Also the reason its so expensive isnt because of the inefficiency of energy, but rather because of all the extremely expensive equipment used to produce it. That equipment is extremely expensive to manufacture and maintain which drives the cost up a lot. But as production methods improve, as well as the scale improves, then the cost will drop quite fast. Again, basically every technology starts off very expensive and gets cheaper over time. This has already happened with the cultivated meat industry where things used to be 100-1000x more expensive than they are today. Drop that by another 2 or 3 magnitudes in price, and you're in the same price range or cheaper than traditional meat. Im fairly confident that this is definitely achievable. How long will it take? I dont know. But technology improves exceedingly fast in the modern era, so I doubt itll take any more than 10 to 20 years based on the rate these things tend to improve. Its also important to keep in mind that most traditional meat on the market is also HEAVILY subsidized to keep the price low as well. Remove those subsidies and meat would easily be like 3-10x more expensive than it is now. So in reality, the price benchmark that these cultivated meats need to hit is also closer than you may realize.

[@deangraves7462]

I think the stigma against these products is because the attempt is to mimic meat. There are plenty of vegan and vegetarian meals that are just as good as meaty meals. For example having nachos with potatoes and beans is awesome on its own.

[@ManuFortis]

This is a fun problem to think about when you consider that Top Dogs from Maple Leaf, the hotdogs; have less preservatives and additives in their ingredient list than some of those 'meat replacements'. For instance, I really can't handle some ingredients anymore due to some sort of IBS going on with my gut whenever I get too many emulsifiers from 'other' sources than just eggs for instance. Carragenan is one that causes issues for example, but it's not alone. And then some sweetener replacements that also get used, also cause some issues depending on which one. Corn syrup solids for example gets added to a lot of stuff now to give it a sweet flavour and to help with the texture. But it also causes me problems. Corn syrup itself does too, but it's easier to moderate that when its only in my drinks, etc and so forth. When it is in my food as well unbeknownst to me, then it really becomes a problem. Stuff like this is why I don't bother with meat replacements. And that's just the start. There's still all the extra factors that go into it, like price, pollution from production and transport, and then of course the taste. So my diet/grocery list basically usually comprises of as close to whole food products as possible, and I do the rest of whatever is needed. In regards to reducing meat intake, or at least stretching it out instead to make it last long; I'll add beaten eggs, pulverized kidney beans, evaporate no sugar added milk (full fat) and shredded Parmigiano reggiano to a mix of medium or lean ground beef. Some spices and such can help with flavour if not to your liking, but it works really well when making things like a chili where you want more of a meat sauce than a meat ball or clump; but still clumps up just enough if you do want that instead by browning the meat mix first before adding to the chili. Or at least that's my result so far. Is it healthier? Maybe. Maybe not. Is it better for the planet? Maybe, maybe not. Do I care?? Sort of, sort of not. I realize that my actions matter, but they only really matter so much on their own. So my impact is quite limited. But if others did this as well, then perhaps we would see tangible benefits.