Why Infinite Banking is a SCAM!

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[@adrianchivas2014]

I bought your book "How to scam people on Internet"... ...and I still haven't received it.

[@henkbarnard1553]

I am still waiting for the Nigerian prince to get back to me.

[@jeffreywhitaker5154]

lololololol!!!!!!!

[@burntblonde2925]

😂😂😂

[@shola7987]

Lol

[@richardkilley6838]

Still waiting for my 81 million Ugandan dollars!

[@Mo-fu9sm]

Please don't ask Dave how he's doing cos He's doing better than he deserves.

[@tineeashmon9223]

(The truth is that's all of us. ) I work in the ATL airport. Every time I ask a well off BUSINESS man , how he is doing that's what they say. "BETTER THE I DESERVE " Not the women . now I say it. Because in my mind they are acknowledging the grace of God.

[@lappodamy5826]

You know what, i better adopt that mindset.

[@Simonsaysboxing]

He deserves to be quiet lol

[@kendrajanell]

😂😂

[@autohrap5884]

Lol

[@aaap3875]

Only 3 things are certain in life. 1) Death 2) Taxes 3) Dave is doing better than he deserves

[@sparcx86channel42]

taxes are not certain for wealthy people since the invention of the offshores and Panama

[@James_Sovereign]

Number 2 only applies to Americans. You guys are getting fleeced.

[@aaap3875]

@@James_Sovereign Where do you live then? I heard Gibraltar is a Tax haven

[@aaap3875]

@@sparcx86channel42 Is that still the case today with mandatory FBAR reporting?

[@MichaelSparks]

Now that's funny!

[@creepypastaanecdotes8183]

It sounds like the same exact thing the IRS does with federal income tax, minus the interest. "Refund of a deliberate overcharge."

[@Paul-jp8zz]

Well except there is no "deliberate overcharge" by the government. They "charge" exactly and only what's due. It's the tax payer who over pays (deliberately or by mistake) by not paying attention to their withholdings.

[@woohooivan]

Paul your point is subjective in the sense that some people consider taxation as theft.

[@Paul-jp8zz]

@@woohooivan Fair enough.. I think that conversation is outside the scope of this thread!

[@kourtneykaribe]

It is the same thing and Dave knows that too!!! Banks keep their money in insurance policies. PRU has a bad reputation anyway! IBC ain’t the problem, you just have to pick the better company and it don’t work for everyone🤷🏾‍♀️

[@justSTUMBLEDupon]

@@Paul-jp8zz so you don't eat a tax return? 🧐

[@jeffmitchell5244]

Dave talkin like the IRS is tryin to help us lol

[@major.change]

LMAOOOOO also like the banks are trying to help us

[@christinab.2864]

The truth is ALL banks are a scam. Just taking your paycheck out from your account is such a hassle.

[@jimroscovius]

I don't have a problem taking money out. I have an ATM card to take money out, and I go online to transfer it wherever I want.

[@0neofthem]

Not all banks are scams. Are you frequently delinquent with your own bank?

[@MrTmenzo]

I don't have bank fees or a problem with my bank. Do you overdraft a lot?

[@christinab.2864]

Bank of America and the government

[@meganmarie4289]

I don’t have any issues at all taking money out of my account to pay something. I see in a later comment you having Bank of America? If this is right yeah they’re a horrible company I’d go for a local credit union or something other than them or Wells Fargo. No wonder you’re having issues.

[@Frankdinerobritt]

Dave is wrong You aren’t borrowing your money but the money of the Company your money stays and grows over time you pay it back on your terms depending on you structure and if you don’t pay it back it comes out of your death benefit

[@geddyeaddy1528]

Ok I was confused. thank you

[@blurisking]

I’d like to understand what you’re saying, but I don’t. I feel like this might be something you’re speaking on that you don’t fully understand. Here’s my question: If what you’re saying is true, and all I would be getting back would be about 70% of the amount that I overpaid, then how after the seven-year mark is my cash value above the total amount I’ve paid into the policy?

[@tannertuner]

Whole life or universal?

[@alinatamashevich3354]

Try and with draw it out and see exactly how much it is. I am not talking about a "loan" on it.

[@Mrclean431]

Because they took that money and invested it. Now do the same without actually giving any money to the insurance company. Obviously you'll have more because you don't have to pay the insurance company salaries.

[@jackporter7614]

@@Mrclean431 You don't get the life insurance benefit by investing on your own and now you're saying he has to become an expert in the stock market. The stock market isn't as simple as pick a stock, buy and hold it until it doubles in price. A lot of unsavy investors get burned playing the stock market. Even if they manage to turn a profit, when they want to liquidate the money they'll have to pay capital gains. Dave is over simplifying his objection and skipping out on a lot of the details surrounding dividend paying whole life insurance so he can sell his product. Infinite banking works.

[@daleyfamily2179]

@@Mrclean431 get the equity out of your home without selling it? Its called a loan lol. No different.

[@busyrand]

Fourth time listening to this... Now I finally understand, and I used to sell Insurance (mainly Health Insurance, and only sold Life Insurance based upon what they said they wanted... I'd explain one of these you rent the other you own after paying for a period of time, then I show them the premium amounts for the insurance pay outs).

[@The.Dude.Abides.]

"Well here's my issue Dave, I live in Detroit... umm, that's it... how can I fix this?"

[@canadiantrucker2984]

I'm wondering why he doesn't mention anything about the compounding interest of the infinite banking system. I'm no expert but it's my understanding that you continue to collect compounding interest that outweighs the interest on the loan you took until eventually you are earning more than you put in.

[@astroman30]

Compounding interest on money that you GAVE AWAY to the insurance company. Thus, pay an insurance company interest to BORROW against your own money, and you think this is a good idea?

[@markf.2050]

Consider having a high yield savings account with $100,000 and a policy cash value of the same amount. (Never mind that it took much less time and money out of your pocket to reach $100k in the savings account.) Now take a $50k loan from both and pay them back at the same rate ($/mo. and time). When the loans are fully paid back you will find that your savings account balance is higher than your cash value balance, even after its "uninterrupted compounding growth" while you had the policy loan. This is because the interest portion of your payment went to the insurance company for the policy loan but into your own savings account in the case of the "loan" to yourself. Also, because compounding growth is not a unique feature of cash values. It also applies to savings accounts. Sit down with a good financial calculator and do the math for yourself. Also, the interest charged on policy loans is much higher than the ACTUAL (not internal) rate of growth on your cash value. Then consider what is the real value to YOU of that cash value compared to the real cash sitting in your savings account. One is real money in your pocket, the other offers the ability to get a loan. Yet you paid dearly out of your own pocket to establish both.

[@89five3five]

Dave spends his entire time talking about whole life and still didn’t broach the subject of infinite banking.

[@PaulKn]

That’s because he clearly doesn’t understand it. His analogies don’t line up with it at all. His description of whole life agent also fits a banker or an investment broker. And any better investment he could suggest could also be done with an infinite banking policy but it would always earn 2-4% more than without infinite banking.

[@HandlesAreForTools]

“Jesus, you’re kidding me.” Taking the Lord’s name, publicly, but what people do in private, he fires them. Got it.

[@astroman30]

Lighten up, Karen

[@garretslaugenhoup815]

@@astroman30 I agree with HandlesAreForFools. What's next after this Bub? Guess I missed that memo it's ok for christians to talk like that too.

[@ClarkAve321]

We need a Dave Ramsey Jame Neathery versus....

[@crack72]

Luke, I agree with you 100%. I would love to see James and Dave debate this, honestly any authorized practitioner will school Dave on this.

[@tricord2939]

Any that knows how standard par whole life can school Dave Ramsey.🤣😂😅

[@danmar007]

It doesn't seem to matter what anyone says, someone will come along and claim it's BS. It's up to us to figure it out.

[@astroman30]

BORROW against your OWN money that you lose when you die, and you think this is a good idea?

[@danmar007]

@@astroman30 That's not what I wrote but people can't read anymore.

[@astroman30]

@@danmar007 It's BS. You understand that?

[@danmar007]

@@astroman30 I understand that your comment is BS.

[@maxpruger837]

@@danmar007 Hahaha, well played.

[@SF-eo6xf]

If the IRS doesn't even wanna tax you on your supposed divodend/profit then you should know something is fishy. Lol

[@dec1slh]

Are Roth IRA's fishy? The growth is tax-free. In IBC the dividend is not tax-free (Dave is misleading you)

[@wukilla2018]

@@dec1slh You do realize that with a RothIRA that you pay taxes prior to putting money into correct?

[@PointB1ank]

@C B But that's why they have a yearly limit... otherwise yes, they would be fishy.

[@bindingcurve]

@@dec1slh Nope, more like it is a goverment policy that people save up for retirement.

[@DurpenHeimer]

@@dec1slh No, Roth IRA is a very standard and safe way to invest

[@cero2277]

So if I own Home Depot stock and then shop at Home Depot, is the dividend a refund too?

[@KLA2789]

My thoughts exactly

[@HOLLA10456]

Cmon that's different lol

[@noahjans3n595]

😂😂

[@carlosgarcia-jz3dq]

it's amazing how trickery and confusion is the prefered way to steal money, so in almost any business situation, if you don't understand or barely understand, that part you don't understand is exactly where they are robbing you.

[@astroman30]

Exactly

[@maliqmatthew1009]

You can actually easily understand.

[@SeecretWeapon]

What designations or record of running money does Dave have?

[@vman034]

Thanks dave

[@charleskaren3948]

If you wanna be successful, you most take responsibility for your emotions, not place the blame on others. In addition to make you feel more guilty about your faults, pointing the finger at others will only serve to increase your sense of personal accountability. There's always a risk in every investment, yet people still invest and succeed. You must look outward if you wanna be successful in life.

[@ralhpculman]

The first step to successful investing is figuring out your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but is very advisable you make use of a professional like I did. If you get the facts about saving and investing and follow through with an intelligent plan, you should be able to gain financial security over the years and enjoy the benefits of managing your money.

[@nicolasadrien5100]

The stock market rally run is gone, but I'm not sure if equities will swiftly recover, keep falling, or fluctuate in a narrow range for a few weeks, or if things will quickly get worse. I'm under pressure to increase my $300k reserve.

[@King_gabby]

Making touch with financial advisors like Kimberly Kent who can assist you restructure your portfolio, would be a very creative option. Personal financial management will be crucial to navigating the next difficult times.

[@gabrieljules2424]

​@@King_gabbyHer strategy trade EUR/USD is quite impressive and her currency pairs are 100% beneficial. With her help I've been able to leave my 9-5

[@Welch-miranda]

Her success story is everywhere. I keep on hearing expert Mrs Kimberly's name being mentioned here and other platforms, Does she really worth the credits and reviews?

[@nagarajakotige6272]

He had not even read Becoming your own banker..

[@astroman30]

Book is garbage.....just like trash value insurance.

[@nagarajakotige6272]

@@astroman30 Ok, You can bank with bigger banks for them to make money.

[@astroman30]

@@nagarajakotige6272 BOLIs are purchased to fund employee compensation programs, not for investing.

[@astroman30]

@@nagarajakotige6272 Wrong….i get to KEEP my money in the bank. The insurance company keeps your cash value. Infinite Bullshit is deigned for morons who don’t know any better

[@markf.2050]

​@@nagarajakotige6272 Your policy cash value takes up to 7 years to break even with an insurance company and you're bashing banks where your savings break even on day one? I'm sure you would agree that not all insurance companies or policies are the same. We'll, not all banks are the same either. I have an FDIC insured savings account making 4.35% in real interest. Cash values have an actual return of about 1.5%. And that is growth of cash value which is no longer your money. You can only borrow against it, and when you die, you lose it all. Of course, you can always surrender the policy and recover some money, but I'm sure you don't advocate for that. Regardless, about 80% of policy holders do surrender their policies early. But what do you care? You got your commissions up front.

[@sudeshdelhi]

Dave is honest Whole life sellers are looking for big commission

[@harrissimo]

Thank You!

[@KTSpeedruns]

Ah. It’s like using a $50 bill to pay for a $39 item, getting $11 back, and calling the $11 a dividend.

[@kylesizemore2751]

It's so much worse than that. It's like using a $50 bill for an over priced $39 item (worth $5 when compared to term life insurance alternatives) and then getting $11 added to the balance of an account that will never appreciate in value faster than inflation and you need to take loans against with interest to gain access to. Literally the only way the numbers work out is if you are a 10 million net worth individual going through a legal crisis because the infinite banking structure can't be garnished by a court and it's highly favorable for estate (after death) planning.

[@ntb3884]

@@kylesizemore2751 To be fair their is a good chance is guy is a multi millionaire, so maybe this does make sense for him lol. At some point its no longer a conversation about being efficient with your money and more of a conversation of planning for every possible situation. That's a really important thing for people who are older and in a good financial situation to start doing in general. That being said infinite banking is probably never the answer, and I get there is a better alternative if he is thinking like that.

[@kylesizemore2751]

@@ntb3884 generally, it all depends on the amount of time you have and your risk tolerance. If you're young you can afford to intelligently utilize a bunch of leverage and transition into paying off that leverage as your get older and closer to retirement (10 years>) infinite banking fits for people who already have a very large amount of liquid capital as they transition into retirement. The concession is an incredible opportunity cost though because it forces someone to start transitioning into retirement 20 years out instead of 10. You would need to buy into the policy far sooner than is optimal to start paying off leverage and settling.

[@kylesizemore2751]

@Kirk Hortel well I mean it's not really though is it? At all points interacting with your balance is equivalent to taking a collateralized loan and you're still buying an insurance policy you could get for far cheaper as an equivalent non-whole life term policy. Even if after a certain point the "return" is 20%, the real value of the policy when accounting for inflation, comparative product value, and loan interest is net negative. This coupled with the fact that most of this "return" requires you to die first makes it even worse. Great stuff if you already have 10 million in the bank and want to shelter an estate from the government after you pass but that's about it.

[@kylesizemore2751]

@Kirk Hortel few things here. WL is a negative expectancy investment which will never outpace real investment. It has a laundry list of legal benefits that you can take advantage of if you know them but you pay for those benefits. Banks don't encourage people to invest in anything other than mortgages and savings accounts. It's better for a bank that you leave your money in a savings account because then they can use your money as 10% reserve collateral to invest the difference themselves. Poor people invest in mutual funds because they, over time, make you not poor. A WL policy carries no wealth generation capability (it does protect wealth but it's not comparable). Personally I would invest in individual stocks, crypto, and etf's, financial derivatives, and real-estate before high expense ratio mutual funds.

[@waaaaaaaaaaap]

Dave himself has whole life insurance but will never tell you that

[@astroman30]

Liar

[@I_like_turtles_67]

YOURE fake news.

[@googleuser846]

He probably arbitrages all the time and gets po ed if you call in and ask about it

[@trisnics]

I was suggested this random youtube channel. I went down a rabbit hole and found that it was all about selling this infinite banking stuff. There was video on there where the guy got really mad at people for putting 150k down on a mortgage and having a 15 year term because more money for the infinite banking and a 30 year would have been better, according to him. Then the guy was going on about how he is going to help his family pay off 70k in debt by borrowing from this system. He talked his family members into getting policies and then borrowing against their own money to pay their debts. There was no comment about how the two leased cars were a bad call or about a massive spend on a wedding being what got them into debt in the first place. The end "episode" was about how his wife was the beneficiary of his brothers policy and how the insurance company said no and he was appealing that. It was all so convoluted. It reminded me of a cross between an MLM website from the 2000s and a cult. They were all about how the banks are so bad yet these same people are selling insurance on a commission in a way that has people keeping these policies until they die. So how is that any better? Well, it's not. I definitely got the spidey sense off of that one and so I searched this out.

[@christhompson7558]

My husband has a 40 year old whole life policy with Prudential. Every year he gets a dividend tax form, and always reports it as income on his IRS 1040 form. So Dave is saying he doesn't need to report it? I think the policy should be cashed in, but due to heart disease he could never get a term life policy for such a low price.

[@BR-xq5ks]

It should be considered a "return of premium" and therefore tax free until you have received more money than was paid in.

[@fl3082]

"Follow the math here; If you own a company and you're also a customer, and the ONLY place the company gets money is from it's customers..." This is A LIE. Mutual insurance companies not only receive incomes from their insurance customers, but also lend out blocks of Tier One capital to banks, finance companies, etc. for which they receive interest, which is ALSO paid back to the "stockholders" (the insured". Dave is either grossly misinformed / underinformed, OR more likely is well aware of this fact and is trying to dissuade his audience from learning more truth lest it hurt his book sales.

[@armerol27l]

Dave is legit

[@joshuaschlautman3980]

100%

[@stevenbell2612]

Bro spot on!! Notice he didn’t say New York Life. You can indeed infinite bank with NYL.

[@HGarach]

I think Dave just doesn't know and he doesn't really care to know.

[@smart_money_makes_money]

Thank you for pointing this out! I can’t believe he talks about things he is completely misinformed and doesn’t do his research on. It is actually damaging people’s futures. Bottom line if you get with someone who understands how ti structure it correctly… nothing on the planet beats it. Nothing. This is crazy the misinformation he is putting out there. And NO it’s not more expensive. Wow wow wow.

[@RedScareClair]

The term "infinite banking" should make you cringe! Any time there's a creative term it's usually a marketing ploy!

[@wiseinvestments5134]

It’s like the financial world’s version of “perpetual energy”

[@justinacase2623]

Flux capacitor,

[@professorjack2099]

@@justinacase2623 Big Data, AI imaging, Block Chain network, Or the latest one (my favorite) any electric company that ends with "la"

[@justinacase2623]

@@professorjack2099 exactly!

[@ClarkAve321]

I’m going to guess you’ve never read the book either......

[@davewerner7609]

Wow! Thank you.

[@Bjohnson1945]

In 1970 I converted a $10,000 military Life Insurance Policy to a Northwest Mutual $10,000 Whole Life Policy. Since that time I have paid $15.16 per month... for 50--years now. So I have paid in cash $15.16 x 12 = 181.92 per year... for 50-years... or $9,096 total. My policy Death Benefit is currently $75,611 current cash value is $60,005. Can someone please explain to me why this Whole Life Policy has been a bad deal? If I had $9000 in 1970 (which I did not) and I assume an average of 3.5% annual interest rate... compounded for 50-years... by my calculation I would now have about $40,000 cash. But my current cash value in the Whole Life Policy is $60,005.. and death benefit is $75,611... so this Whole Life Policy seems to have benefitted me. Where am I going wrong in that belief?

[@ButtersOnStrings]

Because for 15 dollars a month you could get a $250000 policy

[@PapOwnYou]

@@ButtersOnStrings It's more like : you would have paid 5$/m for your 75k term life and invested the rest. By the time your term life is done (let's say 65) and you invested this money at 10%, you would have 150k !

[@Bjohnson1945]

@@PapOwnYou Invest money at 10%.... on what planet is that available?

[@PapOwnYou]

@@Bjohnson1945 Dave Ramsey always use 12+% returns with his portfolio. I know it's really high but I'm using his numbers since we're on his YT. Dave uses a 100% stock funds portfolio with 75% in US IIRC

[@abark]

@@PapOwnYou Ramsey is either wilfully lying to misrepresent the truth, or has a fundamental misunderstanding of math when he claims 12% returns. As is everyone who ever quotes you anything about average rates of return. Simple math is all it takes to understand why, yet so many refuse to acknowledge that. If you invest $100 and the market drops 24% then gains 24% the average rate of return was 12% but how much is your investment worth? LOL-- your real rate of return is -$5.76! Furthermore, he advocates for front-load mutual funds which charge an up-front commission. But he makes money from those advertisers(and probably kickbacks) so those commissions are OK.

[@charleslemaire8137]

There seem to be some strong opinions on this. Let me see if I follow the concept of IBC; I borrow against my cash value and by so doing I allow the CV to continue growing. I do this to "capture" the lost opportunity cost of paying cash or bank financing, both of which leave me in the same condition after repeated car purchases. So here are the parts I find a bit hard to understand: 1. I dump a bunch of money into the policy to fund it; is there not lost opportunity cost on those funds for the rest of time? 2. As I repay one of these loan, is there not lost opportunity cost associate with that interest (it goes to the ins co, not to me). 3. If I did not do this, wouldn't the large chunk of money be invested and making income (albeit taxed) for me to operate my life? I bet the insurance return is less than investment return on average. Something builds those big casinos, banks, and insurance buildings. Every presentation I viewed seemed to look only at part of each transaction and not the whole picture. BTW, I do see some death benefit advantage, but I feel this would be better with a term policy, AND there is benefit with asset protection if you need it. To be clear, I am not a Ramsey chauvinist, but I think he bring clarity to a lot of folks that need it. Personally, I use CCs and invest in leveraged RE, but my debt free scream is "I've NEVER been in debt!"

[@rm5282]

Well stated

[@ShutUpAndRoll95]

Unless you know exactly when you’re going to pass then you’re better off with a permanent policy. Everyone ends up outliving their term. Get it young and early. Lock in that price for the rest of your life.

[@charleslemaire8137]

@@ShutUpAndRoll95 - There are different paths to accomplish similar goals. One should weigh the costs and the benefits. Apparently you and I chose different paths. With respect to infinite banking, one need quite a lot when they start a Max Funded policy.

[@jasonmurakami1814]

@@charleslemaire8137 actually, to properly set up this type of account, you select the lowest policy and turn on paid up additions so the policy will increase in value as the cash value accumulates. The Par-Whole Life policies cost of insurance is established at certificate issue, and never goes up (unlike universal life which the cost of insurance increases every year). So you are buying paid up additions at your original table rating. Thereby increasing as your net worth increases.

[@charleslemaire8137]

@@ShutUpAndRoll95 - I had reasonably priced term when I had young dependents; they are off the payroll. I used the extra money to make a lot more. I don't really need insurance today. But full disclosure, for marital bliss, we each have small whole life policies. I dislike paying those premiums.

[@beto4Cristo]

Nelson Nash

[@astroman30]

garbage

[@jaf1995ful]

^troll

[@WarriorSidMentzer]

Is the Eternal Revenue Service to be trusted anyway?

[@zglitch4021]

As a former life, insurance agent and someone maintains insurance licensing. I completely agree that the entire product of a life insurance policy is a. Or whole life products, they effectively take your money invested in mutual in the stock market, whereby the time you become deceased they have made a profit off of the money as they referred to your family. Much better off placing the money and even even a certificate of deposit with your bank and a beneficiary life insurance.

[@5trace]

I own a small private hair salon..My clients confide in me about everything I have a few seniors who have told me about the whole life policies they own. One lady pays over 4500 per year and talks about how great they are as she can borrow money when she needs it from it . She has paid this for 40 yrs. imagine.. I tried to explain why its not good idea but she wasn't having it. The seniors are very set on these whole life policies. My dad taught me from when I was 19.. purchase term insurance and invest the difference. I feels sorry for these older people.

[@kylesizemore2751]

That's really sad. 50/50 they have accrued net negative returns over that period before even accounting for the loan interest required to interact with their accounts. To illustrate just how bad that is, they have invested an average of $168000 in principle over that period of time. They would have experienced a total growth of %647.64 and have a balance of $1,088,037 just investing their policy cost into the market over that same period of time. Absolutely disgusting service.

[@5trace]

@Bobby Brown yes and she isn't a wealthy person at all..

[@michelarosier1918]

Thanks for sharing your story with us. I was trying to tell my co- worker what plan he have for insurance if something bad happens to him. He told me whole life Inc. I told him that term life insurance is better. We was arguing back in fourth, I decided not to say no more because we are not in the same page. I feel sorry for him and his family. Whole life insurance told him, if anything happen to him, his family get a big cash back. I think God, that I took the D.R course to save me from making mistakes.

[@patty109109]

@Bobby Brown now bobbby run that through the 9%+ historic returns of the stock market over 40 years. It would be worth magnitudes more!

[@allanbartlett123]

There's nothing to feel sorry for them about. Walt Disney, Ray Kroc, and JC Penny used loans from their Whole life insurance policies to start their companies up. They are fabulous and solve so many problems for people.

[@KindaRustySocks24]

No way Anthony knew 10% of that but just kept agreeing every step of the way

[@dec1slh]

Dave didn't know 10% of what he was saying, yet, kept on talking

[@supplehons4662]

AO needs to take over the show

[@dec1slh]

@@supplehons4662 for whatever reason AO doesn't say much when Dave is his partner. He says alot when partnered with others

[@FinrodFelagund5]

He's there for affirmative action purposes.

[@IceColdProfessional]

@@dec1slh because Dave is his master.

[@yankeespringer55]

The A.M. Best company has a publication called a flitcraft compend that displays ALL life insurance companies and EVERY product they offer. Many mutual companies will have both a "participating" and a "non-participating" policies. At best, you MAY get all of the deliberate overcharge back. So in effect, you've lent them YOUR money at 0% interest, just like your income tax refund.

[@tannertuner]

“A real financial advisor instead of an insurance broker.” Hmm. As a risk management major in college in the late 80s, I studied estate planning. Life insurance products were considered quite legitimate products integral to an estate plan because they were a vehicle that avoids the estate tax. All tax in fact. Now. Very few people in the US have to worry about the estate tax anymore thanks to 40 years of Reaganomics. But life insurance products can be extremely stable investment vehicles to put your money in. I never was a fan of either term nor whole life. Term comes to an end. And whole life favors the company. Universal and Variable life products were a stable solution to “buy term and invest the difference.” At least with universal you had a guaranteed minimum annual rate of return and you COULD overfund it. In fact, as interest rates were falling from the 80s to the 2000s, over funding would have been the advised course. At least that was the case when I was an agent in the mid 90s. And you don’t get taxed on any withdrawals until then total withdrawal exceeds total deposits. And the likelihood is that in older age you’re in a lower income tax bracket.

[@freedomworks3976]

Reagonomics !!!! Long live Reagonomics !!!

[@stevenbell2612]

Thank you!! Finally someone with intelligence!!

[@b.davila136]

I have an IUL so I’m good right?

[@multimeter2859]

How does whole life favor the company? VUL and IUL shift all the risk back onto the customer. Those flexible premiums? They're going to increase as you age and eat up your cash value. Whole life at least doesn't change, and there's no risk of loss since it's not tied to any investment or index.

[@amirasiya07]

@@multimeter2859 With whole life you either accept the cash value OR Death Benefit…you don’t get both! All you gotta do is READ the index sheet on your policy✌🏿

[@DEM78976]

Dave always coming through with the affiliate plugs, lol. Love it!

[@MichaelSparks]

+1

[@tioswift3676]

Gotta make money of his gullible viewers somehow

[@stevenbell2612]

Plug in with NYL you can do it with us.

[@mattconiglio5478]

PRU is a stock company that hasn't issued whole life since its IPO over 10 years ago.

[@alinatamashevich3354]

They call it "permanent" life insurance. Whole life has a negative connotation now a days.

[@89five3five]

@@alinatamashevich3354 Whole Life has been around for nearly 200 years. Banks have more whole life than any other asset. They don’t even put their money in savings accounts. It’s only dunces like Dave who think WL is bad.

[@multimeter2859]

@@alinatamashevich3354 No, because there's now multiple forms of permanent life insurance, not just whole life. UL, VUL and IUL are all forms of permanent insurance as well.

[@millsathn]

AON nodding away like he knows what Dave is talking about 😂

[@dec1slh]

Neither Dave not AON know what Dave is talking about, because Dave just gave a bunch of false information

[@chuckmay6563]

@@dec1slh , so how long have you been trying to sell whole life insurance policies?

[@mzlyzs9863]

@@chuckmay6563 lol

[@ntb3884]

@@dec1slh Time stamps and counterpoints?

[@dec1slh]

@@ntb3884 the whole rant. 1.) Dividends are taxed and they stay within the policy until taken out as a withdrawal or loan. The only part that's not taxed when withdrawal occurs is the cost basis. Ask Dave references to back up his claims or better yet, do your own research

[@anwlovett2895]

Ummmm... You can definitely be a licensed FA and a licensed Insurance agent. In fact most are. Also, dividends are a redistribution from the profitability of an insurance company because the larger ones own other companies

[@Mehwhatevr]

he didn't say that you couldn't. He just doesn't trust you if you are both.

[@subjectmatteramateur16]

@@Mehwhatevr most RIA’s are also life licensed.

[@Mehwhatevr]

@@subjectmatteramateur16 I don’t know anything about this. I was just correcting what he claimed. right or wrong it’s what he said

[@tylerrobinson4422]

I am pleased to say that I am disregarding everything Dave just said. Within the next month I will be opening a new policy and stuffing as much cash into my mutual whole life insurance policy as I can qualify to put into there. I’ve done the due diligence and I’m excited to join the IBC party! You have to have the right advisor who can build the policy properly but done right this product is mathematical genius! What Dave doesn’t seem to understand Is that whole life insurance provides a guaranteed death benefit which can become a high value asset if designed property over time with uninterrupted compounding interest. Day one a policy owner can collateralize that guaranteed value. Over time one can borrow way more money out of the policy than ever contributed. Owning Whole life insurance might be the closest thing you can get to owning a legal money printer inside of a Roth IRA except with Whole Life insurance your beneficiaries can also get millions of $ when you die tax free. Remember you get all of that while also having access to much of the money through collateralized loans within the first month of owning the policy.

[@astroman30]

BORROWING against your own money only to lose all your cash value to the insurance company, and you think this is a good idea?

[@astroman30]

@James Russell I'd rather drink Ramsey's kool-aid than give your insurance boss the rusty trombone that you perform every week. So, how does "You" get significantly more than you paid out of the CV without having to BORROW or cancel the policy?

[@thesamekidagainable]

@@astroman30 Because the company takes your money and invests it more aggressively than you can

[@astroman30]

@@thesamekidagainable Again, Mr. Cox, how does one get an "investment" when you lose all your CV to the insurance company? Thus, how do I get my "investment" out without having to BORROW or cancel the policy?

[@jasonlagman9993]

The only issue here tho, you only get sums of benefits when you "DIE". So, if you're concerned for others aside from yourself then getting whole life insurance is good. No thanks for me.

[@DysDys51]

It's interesting how he didn't explain infinite banking and how he described the dividends as being overpayment from the policy holder... but these dividends also include profit from the mutual company's other lines of business (term, disability, etc.). He didn't explain mortality credits through dividends nor how operational expenses for the mutual company affect dividend payout.

[@ronmurray4836]

The mere fact that it has those many moving parts is A DIRECT SIGN OF DECEPTION!!! PERIOD!!!! Are you a life insurance agent???

[@I_like_turtles_67]

@@ronmurray4836 Don't waste your time. If somebody's not ready to ve unplugged from the infinite banking matrix. They're not going to use their critical thinking skills.

[@russellkanning]

@@ronmurray4836 a Growth Mutual Fund held inside a Tax Advantaged Vehicle also has many moving parts ... especially if you want to take it out of the Vehicle early. You have to look into it and learn the moving parts ... definitely not something to just jump into.

[@josecuevas3544]

I feel like Dave only touched on dividends from a mutual life insurance company. 10 minutes is definitely not enough time to go into depth with the pros and cons of an "infinite banking" product 🤷‍♂

[@maliqmatthew1009]

@@josecuevas3544 He can't go in-depth because he doesn't understand it himself. That's why he just goes into "It doesn't sound right," because it's easier to say something like that than to try to demonstrate knowledge he doesn't have.

[@ElimitechPest]

Thank God for Dave Ramsey. He helped me to stop getting further into debt

[@MikaelaMaverix]

This is not the infinite banking concept...

[@Oliveraseddie1]

Idk if Anthony has any idea what’s going on this segment

[@dec1slh]

IDK if Dave has any idea of what's going on

[@Lazaven]

As someone with a series 65 license who is actually a legitimate financial advisor I HATE when insurance reps pose as financial advisors 😡😡

[@markshuell3198]

As someone with a Series 7, Series 63, Series 65, Series 66, and a Certified Financial Planner designation who is actually a legitimate financial advisor I REALLY hate when insurance reps pose as financial advisors.

[@Lazaven]

@@markshuell3198 As someone who didn't post every last credential I have, as to avoid a pissing match, I also agree with you that it sucks when insurance agents pose as Financial Advisors👍

[@multimeter2859]

As a hat, I like to go on people's heads.

[@eliascastillo1641]

So would it be better or worse to maybe buy a term policy then “overfund” something like a Hysa and “borrow” from yourself with that. Not trying to argue just a legit question. Still trying to figure out infinite banking myself.

[@Lazaven]

@@eliascastillo1641 I'm assuming you're in Canada if you're using a HYSA? But it depends on your investment objectives and financial needs. Term is cheaper and you can buy a ton of it for relatively low prices if you're young and healthy. The reason why it doesn't make much sense to save money in a life insurance policy is because the rate of return is low and you don't have access to the money instead you have to borrow against it and if you don't pay back the loan before you die it comes out if your death benifit. Just investment separately with the expectation your term will expire that way you don't need to borrow your own money or have low rates of return. You should probably also have an emergency fund so you don't have to break into your investment accounts or run up your credit cards in times where you may need cash.

[@badongtagalog5737]

Dont ask to someone like dave who doesnt have any idea about what this thing is

[@vernoncooke7348]

Something about infinite banking being something that unless you can see and understand exactly what it is, don’t ever go into it. An example of something you should never go into blindly like many other things. You’d better be absolutely sure what it is before going into it. Don’t ever go into it based on someone else’s advice. True about many things.

[@matthewwilliams9200]

he's dealing with a insurance guy saying he's a financial adviser which is a dangerous thing. ditch that guy for dishonesty and get a new insurance guy and a financial guy

[@dec1slh]

The agent probably never said he was an adviser, the caller can't comprehend and thinks that agents are advisers

[@MichaelSparks]

@@dec1slh I know one insurance guy that calls himself the anti financial advisor... And he's married to a Dave Ramsey coach... I can only imagine the conversations that go on in that house. Hahaha.

[@matthewwilliams9200]

@@MichaelSparks haha it's like a logic black hole completing baby steps requires whole life insurance lol

[@TheOpinionSports]

Insurance companies are financial companies that offer similar products as a fidelity. Some insurance people are financial professionals. You lack the knowledge to know all that tho

[@matthewwilliams9200]

@@TheOpinionSports credit card companies are financial professionals too, with a business of taking your money just like whole life companies

[@dananderson6334]

The "gut feeling" they talk about at the 8:50 mark is so important. I'll never forget the time I was meeting with a "financial advisor" (scare quotes intentional) who was trying to sell me an annuity at the age of 29. It just didn't feel right so I walked. Now that I'm following the baby steps (bs2), I am so glad I did. I was a baby stepper before I even knew what that was.

[@jpapan1]

I'm in the business. It is cringeworthy watching the solution to every investment need be a variable annuity. Mainly the dinosaurs still lurking around.

[@stevenbell2612]

You’re a fool. Why wouldn’t you get an annuity. Isn’t that part of buying term and investing according to Dave Ramsey? They pay higher than bonds and CD, especially now Sind the feds raises interest rates to fight inflation.

[@dananderson6334]

@@stevenbell2612 no, it’s not part of the Ramsey plan. Especially not within a retirement plan.

[@lolwtnick4362]

​@@stevenbell2612annuities are lazy. if you do the leg work, you can do a cd or bond ladder and just pay yourself, subtracting all of the fees of the brokers.

[@hellfire0332]

@@stevenbell2612 Do you even know what an annuity is or how it works? There are ALWAYS better options than annuities. And unless you are old and retired on a fixed income, you should NOT be investing in bonds and CDs. Open a brokerage account and invest in an ETF that tracks the S&P 500. They are cheap and will match the market, which over time always beats bonds and CDs.

[@luciaalboaie8786]

You are awesome!

[@bigdaddyladd71]

Maybe Dave should actually educate himself on IBC before he gives out false information about it. People ALWAYS criticize and discredit anything that they dont understand. Imagine what a guy like Dave could do with this. I will never need a bank/credit card/heloc for financing again. Neither will my family. Thanks again R. Nelson Nash

[@josephjohnson1057]

From one slaver driver to another....

[@justinacase2623]

Big daddy, guess what, Dave does not need a bank either, without some goofy investment scam. Wonder why all investment professionals don't jump onto your awesome plan?

[@bigdaddyladd71]

@@justinacase2623 because investment pros get paid to mange other ppls money. They wont with IBC. And the REAL financial pros (Rockafellers, Rothschilds etc do EXACTLY this system and have for generations. Go to the Nelson Nash Institute and listen to what they have to say. Research doesnt cost you a dime. What do you have to lose?

[@justinacase2623]

@@bigdaddyladd71 just tell me the companies that provide this awesome free money service. My financial advisor after he quit laughing told me they don't do it. So .. .....

[@justinacase2623]

@@bigdaddyladd71 I've got a beachfront condo complex riding on your free money deal. Otherwise I've got to cut a check on the 31st.

[@jesseickes9444]

Prudential is a stock company...

[@brittneyrobinson2761]

I been wondering about this. Thanks Dave.

[@michaeltharpedu]

He is wrong.

[@brittneyrobinson2761]

@@michaeltharpedu explaine

[@rm5282]

@@brittneyrobinson2761 i see the other person never dared to give you an explanation. I have done some research on the topic and I find it interesting. I see some flaws in the pros that many claim are good. The one about tax free loans....all loans are tax free. The IRS doesn't charge a tax on loans...they charge taxes on gains and real property. Then most of the promoters of the system barely mention the cons. The plans are expensive and you don't have access to infinite cash, you can borrow against your cash value which means you're borrowing from an account you've paid into. Any death benefits paid will have the value of the unpaid loan subtracted before it goes to your beneficiary. I guess it could work for some but it's not for me. I will continue to research it though.

[@forever_golfer1981]

Just about everything is a scam

[@Michael-vc2cs]

I love Dave Ramsey. I've definitely gotten a lot of wisdom in my personal finances over the years. However, if you're thinking the over-funded whole life is a "regular" whole life while also thinking the whole life policy itself is infinite banking, this would be a terrible idea for anyone. If your intention is to scrimp and save with infinite banking it will be a drag on your finances for no reason. But if you use the policy like the banks, Rockefellers, and the Rothschilds did and do, infinite banking is a brilliant family generational wealth preservation and investment strategy. I'm glad I watched this video because I do want the truth and I would encourage anyone to really research this topic for themselves. Infinite banking is for investors and entrepreneurs, not regular employees who are saving for retirement. Use the right tools on your journey.

[@astroman30]

1. BOLIs are purchased to fund employee compensation programs not for investing 2. Rockefeller's made money from oil and real estate 3. Rothschild's made money from oil and real estate 4. Both of these families lived during a time where very few banks loaned out money 5. BORROWING against your own money that you just gave away is beyond stupid

[@raymondstewart7660]

Your statement is a disingenuous statement actually. The regular person who knows their finances can definitely use the infinite banking. So you prefer the regular person to just go to a bank and make other’s benefit from them? If you understand the infinite banking you wouldn’t utter what you just did. Read the book “Becoming your own Bank.” It’s great for entrepreneurs yes, but can also be good for normal everyday families. After awhile it does pay you just as a traditional retirement account does.

[@Michael-vc2cs]

@@raymondstewart7660 Infinite Banking shouldn't be confused for the whole life policy being utilized for the mechanics. If you never use the policy, only pay in, it's simply a whole life policy, not infinite banking at all. Sure, someone can benefit from the whole life in certain ways. But that's not infinite banking. If someone never uses the policy by borrowing against the death benefit they never liberated themselves from the banks in the first place.

[@Mimithemotivator]

I don’t think that he has really done his homework…

[@astroman30]

By all means, tell us where he is wrong.

[@Mimithemotivator]

@@astroman30 only if you have read the book yourself will you understand the flawed premise he is presenting. How does it make sense to pay interest to somebody else instead of yourself? How does it make sense not to get dividends off of your own money instead of somebody else getting it? You tell me what made sense? To let the IRS tax your money when you can go put it in one of these accounts and protect it from Uncle Sam? Go read some books and holler back!

[@sbranham314]

I don't think Dave is 100% correct on this. The "dividends" you receive are from the company making more money then needed to pay all company expenses. Also any money you use you have to pay interest on even if you save cash you pay the interest you COULD have made. Yes whole life companies are making money off your money but so are banks and any other company you do business with.

[@SF-eo6xf]

He said that you are the customer and the stockholder. What part of refund on deliberate overcharge did you not understand? If the IRS doesn't even wanna tax you on the supposed profit ypu make on this than you should know it's not worth it.

[@sbranham314]

It's basically a loophole/tax shelter on top of the other benefits. You and Dave should read up and do more research. You can eliminate banks from your life and capture a lot of your income.

[@thelogicaldanger]

@@SF-eo6xf The thing is, insurances make a best guess, but they can't exactly predict how many car accidents they will have to pay out for, or how many home losses. Sometimes, there were fortunately far less car wrecks or home losses, so there is money to be paid back. Most companies paid back car insurance earlier this year, because with the lock down in most states that were far less accidents--that is nothing that could have been predicted. Sometimes it's the opposite and they have to raise rates, State Farm lost huge on unexpected hurricane damage, and stopped insuring homes in Florida. Much of the time, their best guess works, and there are no payments back or raised rates. For tax purposes, the IRS may be classifying this as a "deliberate overpayment", but I don't believe the companies are overpaying, just to be able to pay a portion back (so that doesn't usually happen.)

[@bindingcurve]

@@sbranham314 "You can eliminate banks from your life and capture a lot of your income" Yep, it is called NOT taking out a loan. But if all my income is going into some kind of financial product how exactly am I going to achieve that?

[@sbranham314]

@@bindingcurve it's hard to live life without taking loans. Also even if you pay cash for everything you are still inherently paying interest because you are paying interest you COULD have had on your money. If all your income goes to a financial institution, it comes down to control. With infinite banking you control your own bank and can make your own terms on loans and reap all the profit on those loans.

[@Sweetbinabear12]

I am looking into that IB thing and stumbled on your page… 😢

[@firecraig]

Don’t come to Dave’s page if you want the facts!!

[@beauknowz]

So the question presents itself can stock shareholders of a whole life insurance company as mentioned in this video own/invest in a whole life insurance product sold by the company they are active stock shareholders in?

[@MusicalMarble]

You can probably but the company will be more loyal to stockholders than policy holders

[@mostmost1]

2.5 thousands likes and he never spoke on true infinite banking.

[@calebmallen]

This kinda sounds like a federal tax return; people get so excited to get a refund check for what they overpaid the government in the first place 😄

[@insideoutsideupsidedown2218]

It is one of the worst savings plans known to exist...

[@SamuelDentonTrueWealth]

InsideOutside UpsideDown this is horrible advice No offense

[@whoshotya117]

Thats why I go exempt on holidays weeks.

[@slopcrusher3482]

Id rather be over taxed than under taxed.

[@jamescorr5733]

@@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 Yours is a perfect example of the ignorance that is so pervasive. You're trying to compare a cash value life insurance to a mutual fund. Two completely different animals. What happens if you compare it to other "savings" vehicles as opposed to "investments"?

[@carolea7158]

7:08 "Okay Dave" :D

[@walterseifert1841]

Do taxes smell like a rat 🐀 died but you can’t find the rat?

[@darrelllee2107]

I'm glad that I watched this video this morning. I have been talking with a "financial advisor" from Northwestern Mutual. I flat out told him that I won't have anything to do with whole life insurance and he said that he had some "other options that aren't whole life insurance" and I bet this is what he means. But hearing that Dave Ramsey thinks that the company is bad - easy choice. I'll just go ahead and cancel our next meeting and that will be the end of it.

[@chromelemon]

Same here.

[@chukuemekaoje1015]

I'd run FAR from NWM. I've been told by former employees that income based solely on commission, hence the reason they push these types of products.

[@mflfoam8626]

If u have kids or a spouse or someone else that depend on your income just get Term Life while u build your war chest and retirement. At some point your savings and investments will be enough to take care of them when u pass. Kids will be grown and hopefully can take care of themselves financially

[@darrelllee2107]

@@mflfoam8626 - Sadly, no children. We've tried everything but we simply cannot have them, so we're going to buy one! :) (I joke about that but seriously, we are so blessed that we can't be mad at God for not allowing us to have our own children and we are honored to have the opportunity to adopt.) Also, yes, I have good term life insurance and we are debt-free and just throwing money into retirement accounts.

[@darrelllee2107]

@@chukuemekaoje1015 - Wow. I didn't realize that they weren't salaried. Yeah, that would explain why they push that stuff.

[@Greedland]

Most of you don’t understand how while life insurance works 😂😂😂

[@astroman30]

Such as...?

[@sudano9958]

I have an high IQ, college graduate, financially savvy and this is so confusing so All the more reason to not invest in it.

[@kenpo1203]

It's not an investment, it's insurance!@@sudano9958

[@same.7939]

Anthony on backup vocals ;)

[@harrisonwintergreen1147]

I like it when Dave gets fired up

[@pmarte1031]

Infinite banking concept is one of the best thing out there. Dave Ramsey doesn’t seem to know what he’s talking about when it comes to this.

[@HGarach]

Dave Ramsey doesn't know what he is talking about with a lot of things. I just look to him for entertainment nowadays. Infinite Banking is AWESOME!!!

[@astroman30]

BORROWING against your own money so that the insurance company can keep it, and you think this is a good idea?

[@Simonsaysboxing]

@@astroman30 better to pay yourself interest than a bank

[@astroman30]

@@Simonsaysboxing the interest you pay goes to the insurance company, not to yourself. Do your homework

[@toddtuck548]

Yes he is a complete freaking idiot My 401k is a joke at the moment This guy doesn’t know what he is talking about and has absolutely no understanding how the financial world works

[@swn69]

So USAA "disbursements" are refunds of my own money?

[@smaggi1]

I was interested in infinite banking because you can earn 5-6% and not be exposed to stock market crashes

[@astroman30]

Pay an insurance company interest to BORROW against your own money, and you think this is a good idea?

[@smaggi1]

why wouldn't you want to continue to gain 5-6% on full value of account (not the after loan amount) - while you are paying interest on only amount borrowed? in every example after the term of loan you end up with all the gains in your account and the item you purchased with no exposure to Wall Street, with a very large death benefit, and tax free withdrawals later in life.... @@astroman30

[@astroman30]

@@smaggi1 What part of "the insurance company keeps your cash value" do you not understand? Hence, what benefit is it to gain compound interest on money YOU DON"T OWN?

[@IanKogkneto]

Exactly. It's not tied to an index or the S&P so the returns are guaranteed.

[@markf.2050]

5-6% is often the quoted internal rate of return. The real / actual rate of growth is about 1.5%. It also takes up to 7 years just to break even. Would you tolerate any investment with that statistic? Also consider that about 80% of whole life policy holders surrender their policies early. Also consider that the policy fund is a "cash value." Not cash. It is no longer your money. So who cares what growth rate it experiences?

[@TheDissidentTherapist]

He isn't attacking IBC at all. He is just comparing whole vs. Term insurance in terms of the goals of purchasing life insurance. Even in this comparison, he is not considering the pros and cons of each type of policy as to what your actual goals are. If you goal is just to have insurance until you retire, well go with term. If you are thinking of passing on wealth to your children, you might consider whole life. Non of this has anything to do with IBC. He has no clue what IBC is.

[@astroman30]

IBC = Whole life insurance.

[@TheDissidentTherapist]

Not it doesn't. @@astroman30

[@astroman30]

@@TheDissidentTherapist Dude, how do you have IBC without whole life insurance? You can't. Do some homework before you post anything else that is stupid.

[@TheDissidentTherapist]

You are missing the point. The whole life he is referring to is not built for IBC. Yes you need whole life for IBC, but you can have whole life without IBC. That is the point. Comprehend before you comment on something.@@astroman30

[@astroman30]

@@TheDissidentTherapistHence (go back to my first response) IBC = Whole life insurance. You're as inept as your name.

[@landenschenck7567]

Big word on the street in Nashville is Dave has a few of these him self 😂

[@astroman30]

liar.

[@jaykahee]

I dont doubt it

[@vicepresident8993]

He totally has it. 😂. But isnt allowed to speak on it

[@cp90_]

The guy stated he had SAVINGS... the whole life policy (especially over funded) will crush a savings account and still give you access to your money. If you compare it to stocks, not so much.

[@astroman30]

The only difference is that with a bank savings account, I get to KEEP my money. In a trash value account, I have to BORROW against my own money while the insurance company keeps the balance. See the difference?

[@maliqmatthew1009]

@@astroman30 There is no balance. The cash value is the death benefit. Good luck getting that kind of rate of return and tax advantage with your savings account, though.

[@astroman30]

@@maliqmatthew1009 "The cash value is the death benefit." I defy you to show us a legitimate LI website (Mass Mutual, Guardian, NYL...etc.) where it states that the CV is the DB. Just another reason I don't like you lying POS salesmen.

[@paulstutsman]

@@astroman30 Look at a whole life insurance illustration. You can stop paying premium in year 10 and the cash value will grow to the face amount at age 121.

[@fvalle90]

I might be completely wrong but his analogy is very basic. He is just taking to account how they supposedly just take more money from the policyholder and give it back. Insurance Companies also do their own investing and real estate on top of the policies that they sell, so cant the dividends payouts potentially be greater than your supposed overcharged premiums?

[@siglandoe3913]

What is the difference between buying insurance or stocks that pay dividends

[@astroman30]

Insurance company keeps your "investment."

[@johngalt3434]

IBC isn't an investment. It's a cash flow management system. You use it to MAKE investments.

[@nm-so3ej]

Exactly!

[@rajbeekie7124]

A very expensive system.

[@johngalt3434]

@@rajbeekie7124 Initially yes, after a few years no.

[@Madmax-hd1pw]

@@rajbeekie7124 very expensive system compared to what? A 1% management fee on mutual funds will consume more than 30% of your gains over a 20 year period (a 3% like some high end brokers charge will consume 70% of your gain). If you want to start a franchise, you will need to spends tens of thousands of dollars on a "franchisee fee" before you ever make a penny. If you want to buy real estate you will need to pay closing costs. Of course, all of those are investments where as IBC is more of a savings account but if you want to compare the cost of IBC to a traditional bank checking account earning .025% then let me know what is the long-term cost of getting 4% vs .025%.

[@astroman30]

IBC is garbage.

[@UCaT9527]

wait so if it's just a normal insurance company, they make a profit and do not refund it to you

[@colin1818]

You didn't listen. The infinite banking model charges you extra beyond the normal insurance and then gives you some of that extra back as a "dividend."

[@dec1slh]

@@colin1818 which is not how infinate banking works, you don't randomly get a check in the mail, the dividends remain in the policy until you take a withdrawal or loan. Loans have interest, which is paid to the company. Withdrawals are tax free up to your cost basis (similar to taxable brokerage account). I am not a fan of infinate banking, just did some research because the topic was interesting.

[@colin1818]

@@dec1slh - Nobody said you "get a check in the mail" except you. So please stop lying about what I said. And I stand by what I said originally (what I ACTUALLY said). It's your money. It's not really a "dividend," it's a refund. That's also why withdrawals are tax free up to your cost basis - because there is no capital gain when it's just the money you put in.

[@Howtocreatewinningfocalsbeads]

Great feedback Anthony.... thanks Dave

[@TERMINUSxNATION]

Does this apply to Devin Burr the infinite banking marketer?

[@persianmoney3678]

I think something is overlooked here. Doubtlessly, life insurance companies are not angels and use products to make a profit. Stock companies and Stock Mutual companies pool in the premiums and invest it. Then take their share and give the rest to their clients. Life insurance can be a scam indeed, but if done properly as a financial instrument it could provide a relatively lower but guaranteed return with less exposure risk.

[@timreynolds3229]

Not to mention the tax advantages.

[@yatinkheti2427]

You'll come out ahead just buying term and buying VOO with the difference

[@major.change]

Preach

[@movie30000]

​@@timreynolds3229I have a video on life insurance on my channel about life insurance

[@stanmarsh2499]

Prudential is a stock company, not mutual. Prudential doesn’t offer whole life policies. Dave is often wrong.

[@alinatamashevich3354]

Sure they do, my father had one!

[@alinatamashevich3354]

They call it "permanent" now, not whole life.

[@DougieForlano]

Of course they do

[@Dinnerwiththeavilas]

Great advice and info here.

[@user-lw1tr3nj6p]

So “ an insurance guy “ is a bad thing? Only Dave is an Advisor. How does Dave make money?

[@astroman30]

Just the POS agents who push trash value insurance.

[@asterisk911]

He never actually got past his hatred of whole life insurance to even slightly talk about "infinite banking". He doesn't explain what infinite banking is, nor does he explain why it is bad. He just never gets that far. He also seems not to know what it is. He just knows that if it uses a whole life (or universal life) policy, then he doesn't even need to understand it to know he doesn't like it. Seriously: why mention "infinite banking" in the title if you're not even going to talk about "infinite banking"?

[@michaelparlante8847]

Completely agree with you. I don't typically listen to him because every time I tried it seems his advice is so narrow and basic. But evidently his understanding of infinite banking is equally narrow.

[@tonystorcke]

@@michaelparlante8847 He is being paid by Zander. Dave Ramsey lives on his own confirmation bias.

[@smart_money_makes_money]

Thank you for pointing this out. He never actually addresses the correct concepts and does not know what he is talking about.

[@ghostoferlock]

He said that after someone passes away, only the face value of the policy is paid, and nothing else.

[@kims2776]

I can’t believe he has so many “disciples”. 😂

[@CU87MUSIC]

…dave must not know that northwestern mutual has more CFPs than any other financial services company in america. also, prudential isn’t a mutual company.

[@steveefree605]

Cfp= certified financial phony , another diploma paper mill.

[@jasonmurakami1814]

He is assuming that every certificate holder has a participating whole life policy. You have to qualify for these. The Term insurance is nearly 100% profit. So Dave, all the people you are telling to only buy term, are paying the profits to the Participating Life Certificate holders.

[@21punchy]

Mutual funds don't take profits from clients and give them back to clients

[@astroman30]

Huh?

[@brianmoody2727]

I followed Dave's advice before I discovered the Infinite Banking Concept. I'll never look back. I wish Dave would try going after the concept rather than the character of an insurance salesman he's never met.

[@seestuff09]

That’s because he can’t, then he’s have to admit permanent policies have a place in a portfolio if done correctly. His term life company buddies wouldn’t like that

[@astroman30]

It's a garbage product sold by lying insurance salesmen.

[@kandivega5300]

One thing Dave also never mentions about the cash value of a WL policy is that you can withdraw the cash value for retirement. You’ve essentially funded your own private pension.

[@seestuff09]

@@kandivega5300 that’s exactly how I set them up and my rationale. Personal pension that comes in tax free and doesn’t count against social security as income.

[@brianmoody2727]

@@kandivega5300 yes! And that CV doesn’t count on a FAFSA form either if your kids ever plan to go to college. Specially designed whole life insurance is the Swiss Army knife of the financial world.

[@samyporrata5840]

"A refund of a deliberate overcharge" Right out of the IRS playbook

[@paulstutsman]

From all the term policies that lapsed. Thanks for my dividend.

[@zzerxes]

Love seeing the comments tear his cheeks up on this topic.

[@astroman30]

Why are interested in a dude's cheeks?

[@daleyfamily2179]

well its also like the equity in your home. You cant go to your bank and say give me my equity on my home. You have to borrow your equity against your home and pay interest as its a LOAN. same as the life policy. Save Dave is wrong on this point. You can cash out the policy and take the money like you can sell your house and take the equity but you have to give up to get.

[@astroman30]

If I borrow against my home and pay it back, I still get to KEEP my home. If I borrow against my trash value policy and pay it back, I still LOSE the cash value. See the difference? Letting an insurance company invest your money is beyond stupid.

[@kylinwashington5633]

for the first seven years you can’t touch it that way it keeps all its tax advantages , there is interest on your withdrawals as well. The wild part about that is when you do decide to withdraw A loan is charged 8% while the funds are out of it. When you pay back the loaned amount, plus interest. You are credited 7.65% of the 8% back into the accumulated value. Essentially borrowing from yourself at 0.35%. That’s where the infinite banking strategy comes in play

[@laxunderscoreaddict]

Can you send the best video explaining this?

[@kylinwashington5633]

@@laxunderscoreaddict i only have examples , it depends on which company you go with i just know one of the big name companies he mentioned in this video does it that way and clients love it for that sole reason

[@maxpruger837]

That's not accurate. I've borrowed from my policies literally two weeks after opening them and it doesn't affect their tax status. The only thing that affects the tax status of a properly designed whole life policy is if you put too much money into them too quickly and it MECs (Modified Endowment Contract) the policy, which effectively turns it into a 401K type qualified plan.

[@andrewwalden7180]

So are you pro whole/universal life? I am pro whole/universal.

[@firecraig]

so many incorrect statements

[@21punchy]

He is talking in circles ....

[@astroman30]

Who?

[@LCmonman]

There are a lot of bashers on this comment thread. You have to remember that life insurance should never be an investment. It’s just risk management.

[@elikormanik4498]

this is not accurate ramsey is missing the primary advantage of the life insuracen policy wich are the loans you can take against the "cash value" (read death benifit - remaining payments) for low intrests with no repayment terms as your death benefit is colatteral

[@astroman30]

BORROWING against your own money, and you think this is a good idea?