Why International Airlines Continue To Cut China Flights

[@miamimo70]

London to HK : Chinese Airlines £480 Everyone else £750

[@nntflow7058]

Well, that's how Subsidy work. I won't complain though, it's the Chinese taxpayers money.

[@cainneachdaugherty7172]

@@nntflow7058 Why hasn't the EU banned Chinese airlines like they did with Russia?

[@Mostafaa747]

We should also take into account that Chinese Airlines pay much less for crew, airport facilities at their base, training, etc. The same applies to Middle Eastern carriers, which are based literally on enormous supplies of oil. I wouldn't personally fly either of those two groups. European Airlines are my choice.

[@nntflow7058]

@@cainneachdaugherty7172 Huh? Russian airlines got banned because of the war. Not Subsidies.

[@AnotherPointOfView944]

No. I booked my wife on a BA flight for early Sept. Cost: £478. Try looking harder.

[@terencetong4896]

Because sanction other also means sanction your own

[@mikestewart4752]

Has your brain laid flat??? It’s because there’s nothing worthwhile seeing in China. People going to free Taiwan instead. 🤷‍♂️ China: 📉🚽💩🌀

[@leinster22]

The dummies in Brussels and the masters in DC didn’t consider sanctions boomeranging on them.

[@jazzman7167]

It's the Russian airspace, Chinese airlines don't have to go around. Plus Chinese airlines are cheaper due to labor cost!

[@mikestewart4752]

Wrong. It’s because nobody wants to go to China. There’s nothing but nonsense to see there. Tofu Dreg tourism maybe?

[@sentisenti3229]

It's also an issue with US and EU part CEO and stakeholders keep raking massive payroll and dollar keep being overvalued. Like things cost fraction in asian countries when you travel there.

[@lancewood1410]

Chinese do not demands exorbitant salary like westerners.

[@YouCCP2]

Western politicians are afraid of more and more people see the really prosperous China...

[@nntflow7058]

@@lancewood1410 Because they are poorer, yes.

[@gordonc2792]

Fair enough if demand and profitability not there then why do it

[@hokroeger]

Europe seems to have "forgotten" that USA closed the Western airspace for Russia, and Russia closed its own airspace for any country which banned Russian flights. So, now Europe can't use Russian airspace, which makes Chinese flights far faster and cheaper as European ones. "US & European Airlines Cut Flights To China Struggling With Russian Airspace Closure" (simpleflying) Chinese airlines and COMAC are happy.

[@PlanetCHINA.1]

Because China flights are taking over 😂

[@ssuwandi3240]

Because the Spies fled in a rush. Chinese airlines prob will take a very long time to recover and enter the West sky again

[@Peter-qr2qd]

Simple, it's cheaper to fly Air China. No need for foreign company's.

[@PlanetCHINA.1]

Foreign flight will doomed once China fight taking over the world!

[@chat4783]

China Southern is the Superior Airline as I flew on it my self. Air China is just not the best Chinese carriers.

[@alexanderh.999]

No one wants to go to China

[@xijinpig7978]

Absolutely Air China is the only airline flying from China to Wuhan and Wuhan back to China

[@aviation_chaesoo4448]

Well, as a Chinese we don’t like to fly non stop Chinese airlines,because they had bad service even I would like to transfer in other countries to try other airlines 😩

[@AgathaLOutahere]

Prior to the pandemic it was so easy to book flights to Asian destinations from LAX on Chinese carriers for less than $800. Those days are long gone.

[@sentisenti3229]

Seems like white countries caused political issue though especially with chinese airlines keep expanding in asian and african countries. But in the end international=anglo countries for typical global news purpose.

[@ehsan83]

Chinese carriers will 100% enjoy this gap

[@TmbkBrgrk]

Meanwhile CA increased their flights from PEK to SIN. 😂😂

[@cainneachdaugherty7172]

Or the EU could ban them like they did with Russian carriers.

[@TomDrez]

@@cainneachdaugherty7172 For what motive? Talk about a "free market"....

[@ehsan83]

@@cainneachdaugherty7172 Why because EU is jealous that China has good relations with Russia? You know that the very nature of these sanctions and banning Russian airlines and Russia as a country in general is now hurting European carriers and their whole economy right? So maybe it's time to rethink the idea because it starts backfiring

[@Digital111]

They won't let them run a monopoly, specially since they have the advantage of being able to fly over their friend's airspace. If they are the only remaining companies, then cuts to flights and some other form of protectionisms will come.

[@gordanbabic8028]

Customers prefer the shorter route

[@Redoramaable]

Avoiding Russian airspace does NOT help Ukraine in any way, but it hurts western carriers, and rewards Chinese airlines. That's the net result.

[@freeloader247]

Great western thinking. As usual.

[@annalehman93941]

It's called sunctions 😅 US sunctions against EU economy

[@gezhang-nu2vv]

@@annalehman93941You got the point 😂 This is the main reason why there is Ukraine Russia War. But Europe is not in power anymore, so Europe has to be drawn into the war.

[@KomenJolokia]

its flights *to* china. Flights *from* china is obviously cheaper for obvious reasons.

[@SamJamerr]

You don’t understand. The West banned Russia from their airspace so Russia banned the West. They have to avoid it of be legally shot down. China has not banned Russians from their airspace so Chinese planes are free to fly over Russia. Every action has consequences- John Wick.

[@charlieli9688]

For European airlines, just failed in the price competition

[@GG-hi5if]

Because of external factors beyond their control, and chinese home market advantage

[@EbuzzNYC]

Russia doesn't mind if Chinese planes fly above, they do if European do, European markets should put a tariff on Chinese airlines to make up the difference from Russian war.

[@jfk5402]

WHAT price competition?? How is ANY Western privately owned airlines going to win price competition against airlines owned by big dictatorial governments like China??

[@KidrockHan]

@@GG-hi5if funny, a international fight has 2 ends, what about EU airlines' home market?

[@TyLAR006]

Well, price and Timetable will cause low willingness to fly with European and American Airlines even for European and American passengers. My experience: in January price of Taiwanese airline direct to Taiwan from Australia is 2,400 AUD but fly with Chinese airlines via China only cost 600 AUD Chinese airlines have lowest price and more flexible schedule.

[@themiddlekingdom9121]

Mainland Chinese Airliners make their customers smile and happy when they pay for the tickets with so low prices.

[@eaglestar2962]

The European airlines that cannot fly through Rusia airspace, will have much longer flight, need more fuel, more dangerous, and more expensive tickets. Chinese airlines can fly through Rusia airspace which definitely save travel time, save fuel, safer, and can sell much less expensive tickets.

[@freeloader247]

Check Finnair polar route to Tokyo))) it's 4 hours longer))))))

[@annalehman93941]

​@@freeloader247but they erase swastikas from their aircrafts didn't they?

[@truthful3777]

You forgot about extra meal for longer flight.

[@averykleon]

Because they can't fly through Russia, making other airlines more competitive than theirs.

[@williamc1156]

Is not Russia. It's the western government banning their own airliner to fly over russia

[@jkjkjk100]

Singapore airlines was documentation probelm. They have resumed chengdu and chongqing

[@blinard1]

Il save you 3.5mins.....they cant fly over russia. Enjoy your day

[@SimpleFlyingNews]

That's only part of the story. Avoiding Russian airspace doesn't explain why Qantas and Singapore Airlines reduced or cut their flights to China...

[@dnn32]

​​@@SimpleFlyingNewsEuropeans have been short sighted with their sanctions. They are literally killing their own companies profits in all sectors by trying to bully russia and china😂😂. Singapore and Qantas reduced their flight operations in China bc of Chinese airlines competition prices. The chinese are getting competitive everywhere, and we have to tell the truth abt it instead of behaving as if china is collapsing.

[@magical_catgirl]

@@SimpleFlyingNews Qantas cut back because of poor demand following Covid and low loads. Before covid, QF had daily flights from SYD to PEK and PVG. They only resumed PVG flights when China reopened and the loads haven't been good enough to keep it going. Cutting SYD-PVG allows them to start BNE-MNL and increase frequencies on SYD-SIN, BNE-SIN and SYD-BLR.

[@wannacry7909]

@@SimpleFlyingNewsTo compare the China airlines ticket price with others, you may understand something more.

[@mklee3979]

@@SimpleFlyingNews Beijing to Sydney on Air China ( a full service airline ) cost 350 US dollars , on Qantas cost 600 US dollars. So which one will the costumer choose?

[@hectorar7890]

If you can’t win them, ban them.

[@leongcharles1783]

The claim that weak travel demand is why foreign airlines are cutting UK-China flights is inaccurate. Chinese airlines are actually increasing flight frequency, with new routes like Xiamen Airlines' LGW-XMN launching in December. The real issue is profitability: foreign airlines can't compete with Chinese carriers because: 1.Chinese airlines use Russian airspace, reducing fuel costs and flight time. 2.Chinese students and tourists, the main passengers on these routes, prefer Chinese airlines due to language convenience. 3.Chinese city governments offer incentives to local airlines, lowering their operational costs. 4.Chinese airlines have lower labor costs. These factors allow Chinese airlines to offer lower ticket prices and shorter flight times, giving them a competitive edge.

[@ssuwandi3240]

Sure but who wants to fly in Russia airspace anyway

[@miraphycs7377]

also ba even downsized the aircraft on lhr-hkg. It is now 772 or 789 when it used to be A388 at one point in time

[@tomato-v8x]

To be fair, A380 isn’t efficient. It came onto the market too late, just as when airlines were phasing out the 747s and switching to 777-300ER, the 787, and now with the A350.

[@miltontan65]

Ticket fares are just too expensive 😂 resulted in no demands. Greedy doesn't pay😝

[@alexanderh.999]

No demand to go to China. No one is going going to that dumpster

[@fp-fuddersmuckers]

Cmon, let’s say it altogether: GEOPOLITICS!!!

[@Freedom_from_imp]

Just like the auto industry in China, most legacy makers are losing market share so fast that they will go bankrupt in the next few years. Most Chinese now prefer to buy Chinese cars/evs than foreign brands. The same can be said about the airline industry.

[@ssuwandi3240]

Abs. De-coupling is brilliant defense to take back all the goodies

[@marcellkondor3414]

Meanwhile from Budapest there are more and more Chinese and South Korean destination then ever. You can fly directly with Hainan, Korean, LOT, Air China, Shanghai Airlines to Shanghai, Seoul, Beijing, Shenzen, Guanghzou and soon Xiamen will open a new route . Maybe Budapest will be a new smaller HUB from EU to China?

[@summersky77]

At one point, there were even direct flights from Beijing to places like Phoenix and Calgary. But to now see cuts from major hubs and bigger Asian airlines is huge.

[@rickace132]

Chinese airlines will start to grow, now. Chinese airlines will also be cheaper than western airlines.

[@ElmoR.McElroy]

This is where the stupidity of their politicians come to bite them.

[@DeanDecoursey]

I’m only concerned about one thing. Getting flights from U.S. to China and onwards to S.E. Asia back to pre Covid levels to lower ticket prices

[@luisramos123]

From an European side, we're much better served by Chinese companies anyway. Both on price and comfort. If you have to do a layover, you can even expand to Asian airliners in general, China Airlines, Cathay, Singapore, all vastly superior to most European flag carriers

[@RechtmanDon]

Two major factors (the political is relatively minor, as the US is first and foremost profit-minded): First, more of us are less willing to fly due to environmental concerns; second, Chinese airlines are more efficient, more passenger-oriented and comfortable, and safer.

[@Tony-rw1yj]

Love or hate China You still have to depend on China

[@mikestewart4752]

Not anymore 🤣🤣🤣💀

[@hectorar7890]

@@mikestewart4752the irony between you and your pfp

[@xijinpig7978]

If you dont do China, you are sadness China, Numba Wan

[@housetboy8605]

Hater: China is bad, they taking our jobs, etc China seller: you want to buy this goods at half price Hater: Thank you, I buy all and see you next month

[@KomenJolokia]

​@@hectorar7890said by the guy who eats chinese statistics whole without question

[@tre_techie]

China's local market is already very HUGE, the effect will be minimal. There will always be other airlines that will replace those who left. If anyone needs to go China, they will find ways and means, no?

[@sixtogonzaga655]

well chinese airlines still fly to most destinations in Australia and they are adding capacity. so mean demand is there msot westerners are now even taking chinese airlines due to lack of other options

[@Sayitlikeitis-jn6xe]

My family, friends and I have started flying with Chinese airlines a couple of years ago and we founds the flights are much more enjoyable than the airlines of the u.s and other western countries. The amenities are much better, seats are more comfortable, the food are tastier, the flight attendants are friendlier, flights are always on time and fares are much cheaper. Wished we have discovered the Chinese airlines years ago. Now we even fly with Chinese airlines when we visit Europe, Australia and Africa. Great discovery. Better late than never. It’s ok for other airlines to cut flights to and from Beijing. I would too, if there’s no demand for my airline.

[@AlanBond9999]

There are more China-UK/Australia flights now than pre-pandemic. A dozen of second-tier Chinese cities have direct flight to London/Sydney using 787/A330. Travelers no longer have to transfer at Beijing/Shanghai hub. Legacy carriers like British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Qantas still fly to Beijing/Shanghai clearly lose. Singapore's Scoot is a success, which flies 787 from Singapore to second tier Chinese cities directly

[@JW-bx4su]

As a customer I would fly airlines that give me good price and service. Chinese airlines have much newer airplanes than most western airlines, services are also good. For example, Chinese airlines provide much better food than US airlines flying from US to China.

[@theonh9365]

Azerbaijan should charge a million dollar passing fee like Panama does. It’s sandwiched by Russia and Iran and even if not many foreigners go to China, they have to go to other Asian countries somehow. They can profit and be wealthy from this mess.

[@andyluo104]

Taking Australia for example: Qantas only has one route from Sydney to Shanghai, but there are many other Chinese airlines flying to a lot more destinations between Australia and China, and these flights are cheaper, hence more choice of cheaper flights, no wonder Qantas can’t compete

[@peasoupish6279]

3hours+transfer+13hours flight costs 750 pounds versus 9.5 hours direct flight with 400 pounds, which one do you choose?

[@hugochan2821]

I got return ticket from HK to LHR via air Beijing, with anir China, for about 300 GBP in June, 150 GBP one way, all tax and surcharge included. Flew with A350. Very comfortable seat, free WiFi, and quite tasty meal. Transit time about 2 hours, and Chinese international flight seldom delay. If I flew with Cathay Pacific, the B777 10 seat layout will be unbearable. And they avoid Russia airspace so the flight take almost as long as my transit one. I visited Japan Korea Australia New Zealand Turkey with different airlines, and I think the Chinese airlines is not bad. Cathay Pacific has best service, but I don’t think this justify their high price. For CX flight from HK to LHR, just tax and surcharge may cost 100 GBP.

[@goytabr]

Well, one correction: Qantas suspended its direct Sydney-Beijing service this *winter.* Australia is in the Southern Hemisphere, so mid-year is *winter* there. For this and other reasons, many style manuals recommend avoiding using seasons as references of time, especially when the audience may be in a different hemisphere (or in tropical and subtropical areas, where there is little difference between seasons, and using seasons as time references sounds weird and never even occurs to people).

[@TheMaartian]

Has United retained its flights between Tokyo and the major destinations in mainland China? Decades ago, when PanAm owned those routes, they were heavily used by my colleagues at Motorola when flying between company locations in China. The safety of Chinese airlines then was really poor, so Motorola authorized Business Class travel on PanAm, and then United after they acquired the routes, via Tokyo. For example, Beijing -> Tokyo -> Shanghai. I never flew those routes when PanAm owned them. United, even then, couldn't have cared less about the passenger experience. They crammed in 42 (I'm not kidding) Business Class seats on the upper deck of their 747-400s. What a miserable way to spend 4.5-5 hours. I will never forget the very loud argument between the pilots (formerly flew for PanAm) and the flight attendent serving their meal. The pilots wanted it served in courses. They flight attendent told them they flew for United now and they would get their entire meal on one tray...or not at all. 🤣

[@TeddySy-rs2yv]

International airlines must blame their own government and politicians, nothing else

[@AA-kj4ic]

When travel for work I already prefer US carriers over Chinese carrier, but chinese carrier fare is low enough to trigger policy violation because company policy dictates that we choose the cheapest airfare and I absolutely hate it. So I move my itinerary around a little bit to avoid chinese carriers.

[@jfmezei]

I remember the days when Bangkok and Singapore were THE big hubs because airlines didn't have range to fly from Europe to eastern Asia as the Soviet Union was still closed airspace. Since then Russia opened its airspace allowing SIN-EWR and Europe to China non-stop. When everyone was maming at stop at either Bangkok or Singapore for onward flights (SIN has/had 5th freedom), then BA and other european carrers were competitive. But if You have a stop at SIN while Chinese carrier have non-stop, it is hard to compete. I am surprised that airlines sustained flights that would have normally gone over Russia for so long since the fuel cost and reduced cargo capacity to get that range would be big economic hit. Also, Emirates now has its hub at Dubai and they weren't such a big item in the 1990s, but now they have lots of capacity from Europe to Asia via Dubai which is not affected by the war.

[@autarchprinceps]

Who would have thought that threatening tourists and foreign businesses while running your economy into the ground, could present such a problem to a country.

[@hallointhere5797]

Actually SQ did not intend to stop their services to Chengdu and Chongqing, but rather the Chinese authorities have so far refused to grant longer-term slot availability for SQ at these airports. If anything SQ has increased service to China where possible, such as the launching of direct PKX flights in Nov'24. So its inaccurate to say that the Chinese market has "lost its appeal"

[@kaitai5900]

Because the house cards has been crumbling for a while, and the pace is increasing. Even cursory look about Beijing and Shanghai would have told you that years ago. High end malls with luxury brands empty except the (hot) sales girls and the food court. Like that 9 years ago. Been many times.

[@martinschalken7583]

Qantas ended the Sydney - SHANGHAI service recently. The Sydney - Beijing route was cut in 2020

[@chitranshusom3451]

This is called shooting on your own foot.😂

[@sundragon7703]

If customers were choosing EU carriers and eating the additional cost to go to the PRC, does this implicitly mean the customer experience on EU carriers was preferred?

[@fuzzyspackage]

Ano stop distorting the truth, ain’t nobody chyna

[@zumbc]

Western airlines have baggage fees while all Chinese airlines international routes have 2 free checked bags. Chinese airlines have bettter customer service in economy and the ticket is cheaper. Chinese airlines is a better deal.

[@MiamiCenterATC]

Big topic about use of Russian airspace. You can now check the Cathays ULR flights to HK from USA and Canada using Russian airspace daily. But they keep avoiding it when flying to and from Europe. That’s strange . Also Russian Airlines fly into Thailand and Vietnam. But Thai and Vietnam avoid Russian airspace now. ( This winter there were two Vietnam flights to Paris and Frankfurt flying normal routing via Russia) Air India uses Russian airspace on the daily basis, but Vistara ( also Indian airline) never entered short routes. As far as I know Japanese carriers are also NOT banned by Russian government but they also avoid short routes.

[@ningboflyer3871]

For Qantas, I think it's because the Chinese carriers are having such a fierce price war that it's making direct flights between China and Australia less and less profitable. (China-Australia direct flights don't have airspace that Qantas can't fly over, so there's no question of extra flight time). Plus some second tier cities in China are subsidised by the government to launch intercontinental routes (e.g. Jinan, Wuhan), making Qantas uncompetitive on price. Plus Qantas' previous flights from Sydney to Shanghai were almost 20 year old 330s with small seat pitch in economy, no wifi and poor food, so it's no fun at all.

[@chilam2512]

When cut back make more money, it's a no brainer. Geopolitics play a big role artificially drive up prices.

[@JSJE1990]

was expecting them to say unfair subsidies, overcapacity, national security as their reasons.

[@tango22ah]

Well, that was 3:26 of nothing.

[@shanghaidiscovery2664]

I decided to stop flying with European airlines. cost increases for Air France, KLM, Lufthansa have been ridiculous for flights than are much longer than with their Chinese counterparts. I would rather fly China Eastern, Hainan or Southern for faster flights and much cheaper fares (30-40% on average). for me this is better value. I think those foreign airlines are sacrificing their long-term market share for short term greed. as for British airlines, the issue remains they do not allow visa free transit in the UK so that is one of the main reasons why they were never anyway a major player

[@aviation_chaesoo4448]

As a Chinese i dislike that Chinese mainland’s carrier without best airlines such as Cathay Pacific, even i would like to transfer in a other country to escape that bad service China mainland’s airlines! Wish BA or Qantas and etc can recover soon 😢

[@dannywong8727]

European airlines cutting flights to China (and to East Asia like Japan, Korea as well) are fundamentally due to the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war that led to huge increase in fuel price. Furthermore, European airlines are banned from Russian airspace adding extra flying hours and fuel cost. Therefore, they are just unable to compete with China based airlines (no Russian airspace restriction), and Middle East based airlines like Emirates, Qatar, Etihad (lower fuel cost advantage).

[@brian_castro]

I think the flight cuts are a combination of several reasons many of them listed in the video. Those include the loss of profitability from rerouting flights that flew over Russia, China’s zero Covid policy lockdowns, which stunted business travel. There’s one reason not mentioned. Those are due to political reasons on the part of the Chinese government, not just flight restrictions imposed by western governments. There have been a lot of arrests of business travelers and foreign executives working in China in the past two years. It’s causing a chilling effect. A lot of companies are now exiting China and winding down their operations and moving production to neighboring countries like Vietnam because it’s no longer safe to do business in China.

[@strafrag1]

Although the thought of learning more about Chinese history and culture is great, the idea of breathing that filthy air is a big turn-off in my opinion.

[@vernongoodey5096]

I have visited China 3 times from the UK. £20 Visa straight into country no problems. Now visa £130.00 and the hassle of a trip to London for fingerprints to be recorded! No thanks I’ll visit Canada and USA much cheaper. I see Kenya has suddenly realised and stopped ripping off tourists & lowered their visa fee!

[@ldon4002]

This is not bad for Chinese airlines, but may not good for travelers.

[@aviation259]

How about the reason for SQ?

[@derekpacific]

And qantas?

[@nntflow7058]

Same reason, direct subsidy.

[@Kevin-sl2yw]

They had approvals for lower tier cities (Chiongqing, Chengdu and Xiamen) last Nov but China's aviation authority deliberately made it difficult. but giving 2-3 moth approvals and renewing them only a month before the approvals were to expire.

[@goytabr]

@@nntflow7058, what subsidy? And of course, neither QF nor SQ needs to overfly Russia to reach China by the shortest route, so the reasons aren't as clear as in the case of European airlines.

[@邓恺-d4h]

​@@derekpacific Qantas uses the older A330 on Shanghai route, just can't compete with China Eastern which flies the newer A350 and has cheaper fares

[@GG-hi5if]

All this will do is benefit Shanghai, Seoul and possibly Hong Kong (which BA have cut down to one service daily).

[@cdl0]

Passengers need to consider what might happen to them if a flight over Russian territory is forced to divert due to an emergency, or if the Russian authorities find somebody they don't like on the passenger list. Even for a simple fault, getting spare parts or a replacement aircraft may be problematic.

[@doujinflip]

Russian airspace advantage doesn't explain why it's so much cheaper to connect through HK and Mainland China as much as desperation for the wallets of foreign passengers.

[@pastorcmentarny8504]

When I flew with BA, it was almost full. Is the profit too low for them? I noticed that there are fewer non-Chinese people flying these days(weaker demand is visible) . As for fairness, it is a minimal difference. BA offers better service and seats in economy/premium economy while Air China/China Southern offers better airplanes (Flying on Airbus 350 is much better than Boing 777 and a bit better than the 787 ). Daxing airport is packed with domestic flights and looks deserted on international flights. Not sure about Capital airport as I prefer avoid it if possible. I hope BA will return to fly to Beijing.

[@danielchaw]

So many propaganda against China

[@rosskania5606]

Having to fly to China during Covid lockdowns still in effect in China on a Chinese carrier. I wouldn't again. For me its Emirates now. I'm not worried if it takes me a bit longer.

[@tarzan12345]

Still doesn’t explain Singapore airlines’ situation though. Singapore has very good relationship with China so geopolitics is not an issue. It isn’t affected by Russian airspace problem either.

[@memostothefuture]

The Russian Airspace closure is a red herring offered by the airlines. It’s not that much of a detour and extra cost (roughly 10%). The real issue is the product they offer. British Airways committed a major blunder by switching Beijing service from PEK to PKX. Daxing is not a popular airport because it’s incredibly far South of the city and offers fewer connections than Capital. We see this often reflected in the lower prices many airlines charge to there. It doesn’t help that the on-board product, especially in premium classes, has been sub-par when compared to Asian carriers. Air China, China Eastern and China Southern are all competent and carriers like Hainan, Turkish, Cathay, ANA, JAL, Singapore all are miles better. Virgin Atlantic has no feeder network and is giving up on all of Asia. Sad because they were actually okay but if your final destination was not London they were always a bit more of a hassle. United and American are suffering because people from China fly them once and are shocked at the terrible service attitude and general experience. They are just uncompetitive to Chinese customers, are not cheaper and thus only make sense to US customers who have their mileage programs. Those don’t fly to China enough now. AA recently had an interview out in which the executive said their customers only cared about on-time performance, not the on-board product. This gives me little hope they will get the memo anytime soon and be able to get more non-US pax out of China without a price war. Delta is doing better and the revenue mix is reflecting that. The US market connections are hurt by the fact that flights to ORD, JFW, EWR, IAH all mean weight penalties without overflying Russian airspace, which does matter on this routing. I heard Delta is blocking up to 20% of seats to Detroit to be able to bring cargo.

[@mklee3979]

At least for those flights to Europe and Australia , there' s only one reason : cheap

[@lemongreensg]

You don’t even know why SQ cut Chengdu and Xiamen? Not because they don’t want, because slots not approved by CAAC yet. It will eventually when dates come close. Please do fact check before making wrong allegation. SQ wants to fly these cities.

[@nigelanthonylc4453]

It sounds to me we don't have a lot of choice in the matter.

[@simon-croft]

Chinese subsidies, older non efficient aircraft flying routes, new aircraft are taking time to be delivered, Russian airspace are the factors in play here. If you look at BA’s KIX (Osaka) flight that was originally flown by a 744 back in the day then stopped, then changed pre covid to a 787 via Russia, it’s was profitable. Now they can’t fly via Russia, the route wasn’t reintroduced due to,extra fuel costs to a very busy city that’s inundated with tourists. This gives you some ideas of the slim margins airlines play with.

[@toffcchan30]

In fact most Chinese airlines make a contact with forgien airlines that shares profits. So EU airlines can just give the chance to Chinese airlines to fly through Russian sky and take the same profits still. Just a market behavior.

[@76futurestar]

Gulf airlines such as EY, EK and QR would be pleased to fill the market vacuum.

[@Ernest-n4j]

What about Singapore Airlines? There are many Chinese Malaysians living in Singapore which require travel demand, they don't need the Russian airspace and there aren't political tensions between the two sides comparing to Japan and American allies, etc.

[@harrydeyong441]

I wouldn't get on a Chinese plane flying over Russia if the ticket was free.

[@Marcho978]

Economic and political decoupling. You don’t want to have your assets stuck in an enemy state if and when a military conflict occurs

[@johnthurn5271]

Obviously can’t compete…..no great loss

[@bruno_tcs]

AMS-PKX flights with China Southern Airlines are the cheapest long haul flights Ive seen! Incredible price difference to Western carriers

[@pushslice]

Used to fly to the mainland for Business, and for family. As the PRC is retreating back into their old “friendliness” model, they’ve become closer to the likes of DPRK and Iran . No thanks! it is not worth it. so many other more welcoming places in the world to focus my attention on…

[@Yamagamidaniel]

Because they think flying over the Black Sea is SAFE!

[@cathywoodward6171]

This is because of the NATO sanctions against Russia so the British Airways take an extra 3 hours each way, so both ways will be 6 hours. The cost of gas is significantly much higher and couldn't make money flying to Beijing. But that give the opportunity to China's airlines allowing them to fly over the Russian sky. The sanctions are now backfiring to NATO countries.

[@cyrusluo1983]

Chinese carriers is under cut in their pricing for the same routh. so the demand to these foreign airline are only have 50% load factor .

[@GameChanger-cr4hx]

Other airlines can fly through Russian air space but they self imposed the no fly policy.

[@thihal123]

Wow. British Airways no longer flying to Beijing! Wow!

[@nickblue11]

Now they'll say China has an airline "overcapacity" 😂

[@gerardalfil]

Your report is inaccurate. I just came back from China and airports and carriers are packed, though the self-imposed gaps you mention, along with higher jet fuel costs, are filled by Chinese carriers, Emirates & Co.

[@annalehman93941]

It's not inaccurate just EU-centric, like EU is the centre of the world like XIX century

[@gerardalfil]

@@annalehman93941 Fair point. Though the report suggests Chinese civil aviation is a moonscape attracting little travelers' interest.

[@j3j326]

Some Chinese carriers like Cathay Pacific Can fly over Russian airspace unlike western carriers.

[@rahimkhan5857]

But CX is not using the Russian airspace. They are taking a similar flight path as BA between LHR & HKG.

[@nateshi4445]

I think it only happens on certain routes like JFK, YYZ, BOS, ORD to HKG. It can only happen in one direction. The plane will avoid Russian airspace in the opposite direction. Typically Cathay Pacific flights will also avoid Russian airspace when flying to Europe.

[@mrklv1593]

@@nateshi4445 Same with some Hainan airlines routes

[@13jugneshmachhi77]

Cathy is not chinese

[@mrklv1593]

@@13jugneshmachhi77 hawaiian is not american than

[@mrrazak5079]

No problem as China has Air China , China Southern and Good Business

[@johnreed6507]

Delta flys from Seattle to Shanghai Daily

[@chengyoujiang6076]

From Beijing here, Delta has not flown to my hometown, the capital city of China, for four and a half years already. Meanwhile Beijing used to see Delta planes everyday before COVID.

[@no-damn-alias]

Well they don't have to make such a huge detour

[@danielklee92]

So true, I just flew this route a couple months ago

[@albertchu7926]

China should also stopped their airline to that country and advise it citizens and tourists not to go to that countries and also to travel locally p. For tourists go only to those countries that are more welcoming China airlines such as Asian, Africa, Russia and others.

[@GLOBALALLIANCE]

European airlines have to take longer routes because of Russian sanctions. Very stupid indeed 😢

[@davidlorenz54]

Why Qantas?

[@ausy705]

Qantas never had Sydney to Beijing since the pandemic, it was syd to Shanghai suspended.

[@dhowe5180]

Why would anyone want to fly there unless you have family or your employer insists you go? It’s turning into a police state. No thanks. Plenty of better destinations to visit

[@jimsnoweek4025]

There is no Russian airspace from Singapore and Australia

[@michaelzhao4798]

still Chiese carriers offer lower price

[@hermon1415]

the sanction backfire to their face.

[@Bunnyroo7]

Classic Wu Mao and Russian bots missing the point. Tourist numbers to China from North America and Europe are well down from 2019, so there is less demand. On top of that, there is more red tape and a growing capriciousness on the part of China. I'd also add that the difference in the quality of service between European carriers and Chinese isn't really that great anymore. Given the choice of flying, say, China Southern or British Airways to China, I'd fly China Southern -- it's a far better airline. Chinese carriers have really stepped up their game at a time when European carriers are well part their peak.