Why Ironmans Are Fun!

[@GeaForce]

"To this day, historians look back and question how these incomprehensible strategies ever led to victory."

[@OverratedSage]

The first 30 seconds of this was a true emotional rollercoaster of "wait now how did you get Duessel killed so quickly" to "oh it's Forde, that explains that"

[@BigKlingy]

For me it was "Wait, why is Duessel in Eirika Chapter 9 is this Reverse Recruitment/a randomizer - oh wait it's Forde."

[@ECSmapdi]

One compromise between "hard" and "soft" ironman that I like to play with is something I call the "Look Out, Sir!" rule. You can still play after a Game Over much like a soft ironman, but there's a consequence - I randomly select one of the units that was deployed that map and have them "die" instead (either by choosing not to deploy them in the future or intentionally getting them killed whenever it's inconsequential). The idea is that they heroically leapt in the way of whatever would have killed my lord, and the end result is that you don't have to give up a run because of a game over, but the tension of moments when your lord is in danger are still present.

[@MagerBlutooth]

My FE Conquest Ironman led to the most memorable experience I've had with the series. As I started the invasion of Hoshido, I found my run suddenly possessed by an evil Hoshidan curse. First Elise got assassinated via an unforeseen use of Pass in the Ninja Tunnel, then Xander got taken out due to me underestimating some Armor Knights in the fight against Zola, and Camilla got overwhelmed by the Kitsunes. When we reached Fuga's wind tunnel, I was determined to break the chain, as it almost seemed scripted how the Nohrian royals were getting taken out one chapter at a time, right before we reach the Eternal Stairway. Sure enough, after taking out every unit on the map except Fuga and his bodyguards with zero casualties, I got caught off-guard by his final trick of the maids lunge-chaining a unit right to Fuga, and it just so happened to be Leo. Fuga was able to both double and one-shot Leo, so I immediately lost all hope in saving him. Luckily, the attack from the maid gave Leo a guaranteed block from the first hit thanks to Guard Stance, so he'd at least be able to deal one last attack as a parting gift. Leo then proceeded to roll a 6% crit, one-shot Fuga before the second attack could connect, and pose dramatically while saying "failure is no option." I've never much cared for the Conquest storyline, but the new narrative of my siblings being fated to die as a consequence for our war against Hoshido only for Leo to survive thanks to the mercy of a Hoshidan (Kaze) saving him from certain death elevated it to a new level. Factor in that it was a single continuous storyline with no resets or do-overs, and it became the most satisfying narrative experience I've had with a Fire Emblem game. Leo and I proceeded to storm Hoshido and demolish their forces. I was able to leverage my remaining troops to take out the enemies with minimal casualties. And then, on the final chapter the run came to an abrupt end due to Corrin being taken out, as I've never been able to beat that map on my first try. Though it was an unfortunate loss, it was an oddly satisfying one. The curse eventually came for Corrin, and the rivalry between Leo and Takumi finally came to a head. How fitting it was that the final two royals to square off in the throne room were the two younger brothers who cheated death. My headcanon is that the spirit of the curse left Takumi after eliminating his final target, leaving Leo as the only living Nohrian royal to work with Hinoka and Sakura to establish some semblance of a brighter future. It's an extremely bittersweet ending, but it manages to avoid being a shaggy dog story due to how it all played out. All the main villains were defeated, and peace was restored at great personal cost. The protagonist not living to see that peace gave it that extra bite that you don't really get in a Fire Emblem game. It felt more fitting to the Conquest route than the canonical ending, and the Ironman ruleset definitely played a crucial role. Great stuff.

[@zannax351]

That really is a great story! My memory of fates is a bit fuzzy though so I have to ask, do the other royals in fates actually die when they die? Or do they do the "damn, I've been defeated. But I can't fall here, I must retreat" shtick that some of the important non lord playable characters do when they die to justify them still showing up in later cutscenes?

[@MagerBlutooth]

@@zannax351 Yes, they do all "I'm sorry I must retreat" on me, since they still have to participate in the cutscenes. I did have to ignore that for the narrative I was constructing, but luckily I already knew the story from previous playthroughs and could skip it.

[@dutczar5436]

My Awakening soft-ironman on my blind playthrough resulted in a side story about Vaike becoming Kratos that was more interesting than the main story. >Joins the local hobby-guard squad >Becomes one of the better fighters, and friends with the prince of all people >Starts a relationship with his sister >His love dies before getting married :( >Becomes depressed, starts falling behind in battle >Meets another princess from a distant country, with some axe skills and a wyvern pet to boot! >Gets pumped up with steroids... er, trains hard to get back on track >Once again becomes a good unit, and finally manages to get married >His wife dies the day after, as the army is escaping from a castle and siege tomes, he barely escapes himself >As he almost spirals into more depression, he finds and rescues his son from, er, alternate world (pretend that Cherche's dead, alright?) >Joins together with him and fights alongside his son, the only thing left of his wife and his hope for living, to save the world (All while putting on a smile to boost morale, by being the local clown! What a champ!) Also, my general best experience was my Shadow Dragon blind ironman, but not for story reasons, at least not regarding specific characters - only Caeda dying and getting resurrected before the ending. This one was for gameplay. You know the story of how chess was created, and the Emperor/King learning that he sometimes needs to sacrifice to save someone else? That's precisely what happened when Ogma was about to die early, and I eventually realised the only option was body blocking with one of the weak axe bros you get earlier. It quite literally changed how I played Fire Emblem since then, being more open to moving on rather than resetting, even if I'm not ironmanning completely. I also managed to make it to the penultimate chapter with no resets, Until Marth got killed because the stat screen lied about dragon stats. I then save scummed to beat the last chapter, and had something like 15/55 people left alive by the end. It was tragic yet hilarious.

[@BigKlingy]

That point about bittersweet endings like that not often happening in FE is interesting to me, because my prediction for Fates' plot was: "Azura dies in Birthright's ending, Corrin dies in Conquest's." I was only half right, but your run ended exactly like my predicted Conquest ending.

[@Hewasnumber1]

I would have just kept playing. Ironmans take permadeath to its extreme. I wouldn’t ever be able to do a true ironman challenge because I wouldn’t want to give up playing near the end of the game just because the lord character died.

[@OpheliaDuskElla]

Im too attached to my units so i cant ironman

[@nicocchi]

Try ironmanning a game you've never played, bonus points if it's one of the older FE games where you were lucky if your characterization was more than 5 words across the entire game

[@OpheliaDuskElla]

@@nicocchi I will try to do that

[@Cupcakkecult]

I honestly thought that doing a game I’ve completed with all of my units alive on another file helped me cope with perma death

[@JoeLinhardt]

Same

[@aeon5904]

@nicocchi funny bc I'm the opposite, I always want my first playthrough of a FE to be no death bc I don't want to miss out on supports or make the first playthrough extra hard with unit deaths. And then after I've seen the entire story once I'll do ironmans bc I'll feel like I'm not missing out on anything/tainting my first run lol, not saying it's better or anything though just interesting to see the opposite perspective!

[@Asujoll]

As someone who doesn't play FE a ton, I started playing FE6 for the first time recently, and I thought I'd do it in a soft Iron Man. I knew you got a lot of units, and that there were some punishing maps that would be a big pain to have to reset. If anything, I think not having to worry about resets has made this one of my favorite FE playthroughs in recent memory. I've lost some important units along the way, like Lance and Shanna, but it's just made me think outside the box, and - I think - get better at Fire Emblem. I've been streaming it to my friends in Discord as well, and the bit about making up your own storylines rings very true. There was a point where Lot and Wade had to keep a bunch of ambushes from getting through a chokepoint, and my friends were cheering intently for the axe bros, and felt genuinely bad when Wade didn't make it. In another map, I had set up my units poorly against one boss, and we were absolutely sure someone was going to die, but Allen ended up getting a lucky dodge and a lucky crit on Enemy Phase, and now my friends regale Allen as this gigachad despite never seeing a single of his Support Convos. It's super fun.

[@illusive-mike]

In terms of ironmanning FE1, there's also the different enemy AI to consider. Being the first game in the series, it doesn't have the enemies try to inflict maximum casualties, but instead has them attack Marth whenever possible. This may be a boon as it allows Marth's quality as a combat unit to carry enemy phases that in other games would result in unit deaths.

[@xHeigoux]

doesn't seem to be 100% true. had some horse archers kill my Sheeda instead of attacking mars who was literally just standing in front of them :/

[@glitchwarrior7270]

There are exceptions to the rule, clearly. If they can't attack Marth, or if the enemy somehow sees an incredibly effective engagement with the rudimentary FE1 AI, then they will actually attack other units. I reckon that horseman just saw "hey look, he's got a flier, i have a bow, *I CAN MATH*" and went "pew pew your majesty, your waifu now have no laifu".

[@garak55]

The new AI is actually super annoying because they just suicide their units into yours with the sole purpose of inflicting one (1) casualty. It feels like the developers are saying "we know you're gonna reset, pussy". They do it for the increased time to beat and it's annoyjng. I usualy call them on their pathetic bluff and I trivialize half of their maps by sacrificing a unit. No way I'm spending 10 hours resetting their map lmao learn to level design

[@birdbig6852]

Love to see someone praising Engage for being a good Ironman game.

[@Hebleh]

Especially since character deaths have impact afterwards, all the related units will mourn a death of a friend or loved one

[@Hewasnumber1]

Engage being permadeath friendly is the entire reason it’s tied with Echoes for being my favorite Fire Emblem game. Nothing will ever top my last playthrough where Citrinne was carrying the entire game with dire thunder, but then died when Mauvier warped a group of enemies behind my frontline troops (obviously I knew he could do that, but I couldn’t predict where exactly he’d warp them to), so I then swore bloody revenge upon him for his transgressions. Not to mention that I was actually so bummed out for the rest of the playthrough because of the loss.

[@valarmis]

A note: Awakening's reason for adding the parallel worlds lore is to just really hammer in that everything that happens in YOUR run is as canon as the main story. Tragedy and triumph naturally rise out of a no reset run, and overlooked characters can suddenly shine in a new light for your run when they can suddenly what your usuals just can't. Honestly I've reached a point where doing reset runs creates a tiring and unrewarding cycle that burns me out, I basically only iron man now. It makes its own story, it's great

[@carsonist501]

Can confirm (it fulfills my masochism) Real talk, I like the stakes that it provides. A Game Over actually feels impactful, and I find character deaths add a certain uniqueness to playthroughs.

[@actuallizard]

You are the truest masochist among us for those Three Houses Ironmans

[@scrubian5425]

I generally play what you classify as a "soft ironman", but if I get a game over/reset, I put all my characters on a "wheel of death" and spin it to decide who I will 'sacrifice' to continue the run. It alleviates some concern with soft ironman runs where you sometimes feel incentivized to throw the run just to reset when it isn't necessary. I like how you mention the difficulty of Radiant Dawn, as I have done both these soft resets and full restarted many iron man runs to it. Shout outs to the Brom and Nephenee chapter in part 2, and 3-13 for being my most notorious run killers to arbitrary game overs (brom or neph dying, or a hawk flying into the defend zone in 3-13). Despite its difficulties, it is my favorite game to replay and ironman.

[@DarkAuraLord]

When I first played FE, I started with 7, and I just accepted the game at face value since I was like 11 and had no clue what FE even was. My first experience with the game was a soft iron man. Every single character besides the lords died and I still managed to finish the game, albeit with some difficulty 😅 The next playthrough I did, I told myself that I was going to do better and not let my army get killed like before, and I had FAR less casualties. Soft iron manning it actually made me a BETTER play overall, because it allowed me to make mistakes and learn from it in a more meaningful way. Resetting whenever you lose a unit is kind of like removing the consequences of your mistakes, and I feel that makes it more difficult to learn from them, because you don't have any reason to - "if I mess up, I can always just reset the chapter".

[@holschermarc]

Literally my entrance into the Franchise. Also started with 7 and also just took the Perma Death as a given without thinking about reseting. I also just barely scrambled the Dragon with a few remaining units.

[@Slenderquil]

I recently started my first soft Ironman in H1 shadow dragon. It's very easy to overpower most enemies once you start promoting, and I've lost surprisingly few units. The only death that really hit me was losing Minerva after overextending her too much. It does make you look at things differently, being scared of low crit chances and reclassing fliers on maps with lots of bow units.

[@Hewasnumber1]

I did an Awakening soft ironman recently and also lost surprisingly few units (the total count was four), but I lost Sully because I saw her have around a ninety-six percent chance to hit and thought: “there’s no universe in which she misses this.” She then missed and died to a critical hit in retaliation. The point is that on top of being scared of low crit chances it also makes your booty clench when a hit rate is anything other than a hundred percent. Really makes you appreciate the tension that RNG introduces: NOTHING is truly safe.

[@rhodey_37]

I once got the vast majority of my army massacred in ch.7 and 8 of an FE6 ironman. Popping the knight crest on Barth ASAP and sticking him in choke points managed to hold off the reinforcements and save the run, but I left chapter 8 with like 6 useful units. Resulted in a dreadfully slow run where I would turtle and/or choke a point every map in order to not get overrun, but Barth somehow carried my team of squishies all the way through the western isles and arcadia before finally hitting a game over on the Miledy chapter (not his fault, I goofed positioning Roy). Gained a new respect for Barth, and is still my favorite Ironman memory to this day

[@Super_EpicGuy]

My favourite way to play FE games on a first playthrough is with a soft Iron Man, not because of the challenge, but because the permanent loss of units makes me more invested in everyone's story, the fact that I could lose them makes everything more tense, and I'm sad when I lose a unit not because I lost their function but because their life and story was cut short

[@sirbradfordofhousejones]

4:12 YES. This is why I only play soft Ironman. I struggle with perfectionism IRL, so I don’t want that in my video gaming experience

[@Wrathvantageous]

Hey! I love your content. I had a situation in FE8 on the ghost ship chapter where Ephraim got sandwiched at the chokepoint between the first and second ship. I secured his back, but I needed a front blocker on the chokepoint. No available units were bulky enough to tank for Ephraim without him getting killed, too, so I sent Franz and promoted him to great knight just so he could tank for Ephraim. Franz died tanking the hit that would have killed Ephraim. Then I ended the run by OHKOing The DK with Myrrh. RIP Franz.

[@picleus]

Regular playthrough: "My unit died so I will reset the chapter" Ironman playthrough: "My unit died so I will reset the game"

[@thegreatnothing3201]

My first playthrough of FE11 was an ironman. A few highlights for me: Hardin getting crit by the Silver Bow sniper in chapter 10. Cain and Abel both being killed in chapter 16 from the riders bane wyverns. Having to kill Tiki because Bantu ended up getting killed in that map. Finally endgame rolls along, I was unaware of Medeus' door trap. Caeda's squad in the northeast is trapped and pelted by Pachyderm ballistae, which quickly put every unit there in danger. Est is locked out of the keep while Draug, Astram, and Ogma attempt to escape into the palace proper. Palla, Jake, and Sedgar are quickly overrun by the palace guards and slaughtered. Marth, Gotoh, Xane, and Elice are surronded from forces from the west, north, east. Caeda's squad including Boah, Jorge, and Midia are decimated by the flames of the Pachyderm. Caeda narrowly holds on to life with the Grativis, but uses are limited. Astram is killed as Ogma and Draug are trapped within another room. My Level 15 Marth and Xane are warpped in right before Paladin's run over Ellice and Gotoh. Marth had to train on the Manaketes leading to Medues' room, powerleveling him into the mid 20's. With his loves life on the line, Marth strikes deep into the throne room to take out Medeus's guard and the snipers within, dodging the flames that took his allies' lives. Marth retreats heals, and goes for a death or glory attack on the earth dragon himself. After 3 rounds of combat, Marth slew the shadow dragon and rescued Caeda aganist all odds.

[@carsonist501]

This could be a novel in itself lol. Really shows how gameplay decisions can lead to a unique story in itself

[@mjbrownii]

I don’t Ironman yet, but If a unit dies at the end of a map I just lose them. Especially if it’s a long map, or just a harder level

[@mjbrownii]

Example me trying not be spoiled on plot points and surprises I encounter the Black Knight… and I had a really good unit right next to his freaking door because I was trying to get to the house in the back…. And he counts as an ambush spawn.

[@BTrainStudio]

I used to play FE with no unit deaths but moved to ironman overtime. I enjoy saving all units on first playthroughs and then do an ironman afterwards. Ironman is the funnest playthrough for me but I like trying to recruit everyone and get all the secret objectives for first playthroughs. After that it's a free for all.

[@powerfulberry237]

Ironmanning ironically feels less punishing and stressful after playing FE for 9000h in this life

[@SilverSaber06]

I am doing a soft ironman for my first Binding Blade playthrough right now only resetting for gaiden chapter requirements. I am on Chapter 21x and I've had a lot of rough deaths (Marcus, Larum, Rutger, etc.) but it has been a blast as the units that survived (Allen, Lance, Lugh, Milady, Zeiss, etc.) became really good. The perma-death mechanic is actually what got me into Awakening years ago, so I always play this way with two expectations (Echoes and Three Houses). Also with the older games, I am too lazy to reset for an entire chapter and I don't bother save-stating too much.

[@someoneusedtobeknown2645]

"Soft Ironman" was never a term that particularly felt correct to me, so I started referring to those kinds of runs as "Copperman" runs!

[@delllee4915]

I read this as Coperman run for some reason

[@GIR177]

Copper is denser than iron...

[@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755]

Where is the Goldman run

[@knotknight514]

Tinman runs

[@pho3144]

Doing my SoV Ironman run rn, after some early deaths I've recovered and adjusting to the losses has been fun and unique!

[@mercenarybdu]

Ironman is what Kaga had in mind when he made FE in the first place. He simply told everyone not to attempt to save everyone and just forge forward in completing the game, while dealing with the consequences of your own actions. For which is why the Gaiden Chapters in FE11 are behind a threshold wall in order for the player to access, complete and 100% the game if they are in pursuit of that.

[@lukecampbell5341]

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your open-minded approach to game difficulty and finding a fit that matches each player. It's never just Hard 5 or bust, Maddening only, Lunatic Reverse, etc. Even in challenges, there's a place for players of all skill levels to not only try to improve but to enjoy the game at their competency. As someone who is pretty mediocre at these games but still enjoys them, it means a lot when you take the time to recommend certain games, add different variants and options to make a run more accessible for every player, so thank you.

[@alexnuzlocker12]

First time I iron manned conquest I got to the endgame having already lost a few units, one of the big ones being Charlotte who my Corrin had married. The map was going fine until I got jumped by the bomb faceless a turn or two earlier than I remembered, so I went from a fairly brisk but manageable pace to a mad dash to the boss. By the end of that map only Corrin and Leo were still alive of the units I deployed (Soleil was benched for the map and I didn't even bother getting Forrest or Nina).

[@blumstein3468]

I was about to give up on a Normal-Classic Ironman run on Echoes yesterday and this video was just the right push for me to continue it. Losing Silque and Genny on Alm's and Celica's route, respectively, gave me a right headache (who loses units on Normal difficulty, anyways?). I also hadn't finished the game before so hadn't known if losing these healer units would be detrimental for the rest of my run. This video reinforced my subconscious belief that this sense of loss and unknown is an integral part of an experience, so I say que sera, sera. Whatever happens I will see that ending credits, no matter what. Thank you for the video!

[@gg_sam7847]

I've been doing my first (loose) Ironman recently with Engage. "Loose" as in if I do make a move and then within a few seconds realise I made a mistake or didn't check something I should have I rewind back a bit, and if I get a game over I'll rewind back to wherever I feel like so I don't have to waste any more precious real life time than necessary

[@gg_sam7847]

and yeah it's definitely fun

[@abbieburton2794]

My only ironman has been a soft ironman of fe11, resetting if marth or caeda died because it felt it fit the game. After a truly harrowing death count, 8 units walked out the other end. Was quite the experience. As the fire emblem games have changed I'm very glad of tools like casual mode and the turnwheels. In a heavy investment game, choosing between an hour's reset or losing something irreplaceable feels awful. And casual mode letting you make minor mistakes and still finish feels nice. It definitely does change how you play the game though. I see a lot of discussion on whether luck or res is the worst stat, usually concluding in favour of res. But playing on casual with turnwheel, luck feels substantially less important unless it's catastrophically low. I would love to see a "back to basics" style of fe with a ton of units. That feels like the best sort of game to let unit death sit in.

[@SamWickens]

I did my first playthrough of 3H as an Iron-man. It was a mistake, I ended up in the endgame with only Byleth and two other units, and not enough weapon durability to make it to Nemesis within the turn limit.

[@TheSprintingGamer]

I’ve been doing an engage Ironman recently and it has simultaneously been the most fun and the most stress I have ever experienced playing a fire emblem game

[@HerAffectations]

I recently tried my first soft ironman on fe6 lmao I can't wait, on chapter 7 so far and 4 people bit the bullet already but I'm having lots of fun flowing through chapters and having that fuck it attitude !

[@Noah_Krakatoa]

I was surprised when I was replaying Blazing Blade recently that the game straight up tells you to make a separate save when you do side-chapters in case something goes terribly wrong

[@forsetimaster0689]

I've only ever done one Ironman run, and it wasn't that long ago. I decided just for the heck of it to try a Thracia blind Ironman and it went as well as you expect (I quit after Osian died a few chapters in). It was, however, a lot of fun, and I totally see the appeal of them.

[@gangstersamurott2511]

I remember having a similar experience as your Sacred Stones chapter 19 in my FE12 H2 iron man run where I had to do an inpromptu warp skip in chapter 16 because I forgot to check which of my units would be able to survive two of the heroes from the hero room and had sent both Kris and Darros who where the only two that lived chasing after thiefs because of their dracoknight movement. This resulted in me getting pincired from three sides but I somehow managed to get out of the chapter without any deaths.

[@makesomething4093]

If you tried to do a Steve Blum Spike impression, you’d nail it. (Also, been loving your vids, I just subbed

[@ShadowXeldron]

Might have a shot at one when I finally get around to finishing FE7.

[@joeyharrington1863]

I recently did an iron man of FE7 (the game I'm most familiar with by far), and it made the playthrough feel smoother and more memorable too. I felt lighter knowing that I wouldn't need to reset and slog through a chapter again. There were some sad deaths that made me get creative (Florina dying in her join chapter meant I had no flyers until heath joined) and there were some VERY close calls (jaffar died on turn 2 in battle before dawn, so Zephiel had to survive way more attacks that would have ended the run). At the same time, it disincentivized me to use Lyn, which is a bit sad, since she is one of my favorite units. At the same time, it made me realize that there are way more options at my disposal than I usually consider. Highly recommend.

[@auroraborealis4468]

Love Conquest as an Iron Man because the entire cast you get is so well balanced, they all feel like viable units or replacements, losing units feels even bigger because you're not just losing units but also potential children and reclasses, AND Niles gives you an opportunity for endless, lesser filler units through capturing in case you fuck up. It's a pretty neat experience that feels very much like it rapidly evolves the deeper you get into it.

[@MommyRexacuse]

One of my favourite fire emblem experiences was playing fe3 book 2 for the first time as an iron man. There were so many memorable moments to me, like Phina getting killed by Astram, or training Arlen in the last couple chapters because almost all my other staff units died. That is a game I very much recommend iron manning

[@thereallifesaiyan]

FE3 is so peak, more people need to play in general

[@prsm5167]

I feel like ironmanning does sound like fun, but I tried to do a deathless run of Binding Blade and goddamn was that tedious. Still haven't beaten it because a loss of a single unit undoes all my progress on chapters where I really do not have fun. And I want to grab items to promote what I can, but sometimes it is INCREDIBLY difficult to do when I'm trying to get the true ending...

[@oof5992]

Ironmans are the opposite of a deathless run tho

[@knotknight514]

Counterpoint, I can't handle it lmao

[@Xertaron.]

Ironmanning works in FE1 and SD, because most characters are basically generics with portraits and the only time they say anything is when they die, but the further into the series characters become more developed and losing them becomes harder to accept. Not to mention, in most games, the narrative doesn't acknowledge their deaths so you just end up with worse experience for the rest of the game if you're not into challenge runs. It's a hard sell for a casual player.

[@saltygrandma9149]

Consider: if I lose the Ironman, the bad guy wins and the kingdom/world dies

[@theepickyo]

Wyvern lord sully was amazing in my second awakening ironman

[@LostBlade776]

Great video that I think you do a great job getting across a lot of the enjoyments on ironmans I have done 3 ironmans so far and am in the process of doing a 4th My first ironman was of Fire Emblem Awakening which I beat My 2nd ironman was was og Fire Emblem Fates Birthday which I stopped halfway through because I thought that an ironman would make the game more interesting but I still didn't have fun with Birthright even then so I dropped it Then my 3rd ironman was of Fire Emblem Fates Conquest which I ended up losing on the ninja hideout chapter And finally my 4th ironman ehich I am currently in progress of doing is of Fire Emblem Engage And I have had a lot of fun with all of them (except Birthright but that's just with me not liking the game itself) win or lose the challenge makes me play in a different way and allows me to use units I would never used otherwise and makes all the tense moments even more tense they are super fun

[@GreatAether58]

I unintentionally did an iron man the first time I ever played Fire Emblem like 20 years ago. That was because I was a kid and didn't pay attention enough to know you even could restart if a unit died. It was FE7 and I only made it to Dragon's Gate. My 12 year old self only had like 5 units left besides the main Lords at that point. I just couldn't do it so I had to start the game over. Now that I am much more experienced with Fire Emblem I might do an intentional iron man run. I'm sure I'll do much better at it now than I did back then.

[@DocDevious23]

I've never done an iron man for FE because I'm just bad at the games generally and I get way too attached to units. Maybe I'll try one, but I wanna finish every game at least once normally before I tackle that sorta challenge

[@tdimensional6733]

I remember my first blind playthrough of FE9 was explicitly an ironman from the word go. It was a fucking *disaster* in the early game, and it got bad enough that the only units I had for the defend map with Ilyana in it were Ike, Titania, Mia, and Soren. Four units, one of which was a fresh recruit from the previous chapter. Gatrie and Shinon had *just* left. I felt HOPELESS, even with Titania on deck, and genuinely thought I might have to restart my run because I wouldn't be able to clear the map. Soren wound up being one of my best units. He died to a 4% crit from the Wishblade. I forget what happened to Mia, and I stopped using Titania because I don't like using Oifey-esques. All in all, that playthrough was one of my favorite experiences with Fire Emblem period, and I constantly wish I could relive that playthrough someday, a playthrough that never would've happened if I reset even once during the earlygame

[@numadrozcoffeeshop]

Thracia is one of the best game to ironman, given you've finished it once to know how to play around the jank (and use it yourself) Any unit can become good thanks to lower cap, and movement level ups can suddenly make any random dude a sudden star of your team, creating so many stories and memories. Great balance of difficulty and fun imo.

[@typerider5305]

This video landed while I was playing through Shadow Dragon Hard 5, taking notes and figuring out safer strategies to make an Ironman run of it later...I have never done an Ironman FE run before but I'm not finding Hard 5 quite so overwhelming it seems unfeasible for me. Granted, I just hit Chapter 8, so let's see how I feel about it later!

[@nightknight498]

I think Sacred Stones is my favorite game to ironman, usually without overworld shops and Tower grinding, sometimes paired with a benched Seth as soon as preps are available. The game is pretty easy already, so you'll be able to scramble your way through somehow even if you mess up a few times. Although units tend to snowball like crazy, most are rather squishy until they get their first few levels, so if you're set on using a specific unit, things might get hairy here and there. An early death might even change up if you want to go Ephraim or Eirika Route based on recruitment order and the kinds of maps you need to get through. I personally also try to get a user for every Twin Weapon by endgame, except Gleipnir because grinding up Knoll's Ranks just isn't worth it.

[@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755]

And training ewan takes too long

[@thomasquesada7248]

I would personally mention Fates birthright for Ironmans it’s pretty fun and you can always hire generics at the castle

[@robotsturm6488]

one thing that I like about ironmans is you are forced to use different units. most of time I find me using Marcus o Isadora more than I used to. strats are also diferent, in some maps I have to turtle instead of splitting my units o promote armored and heales ASAP.

[@SilentMeteorite]

The issue with ironmaning FE is that I 100% think it would make my gameplay experience more fun, but I really care about seeing all the story content and supports. And I don't tend to replay games very often, so if I don't do it on my first run, I'll never do it

[@Hewasnumber1]

A lot of unique story content is actually locked behind unit deaths. This doesn’t apply as much to the post-Awakening Fire Emblem games (except for Echoes, that game has a lot of differences in story scenes depending on who, and who has not died), but I know the older games have a copious amount of differences based on who lived and who died. So in a lot of FE games you’re actually losing out on unique story scenes by resetting, rather than living with loss.

[@halcyon_echo42]

I'm such a softie, I've considered draft races more seriously than ironman runs, but I do see the merit and have enjoyed watching them both too

[@GamingTranceSeer]

I used to hate ironmans but since fe shadow dragon is one of the games I own it got me used to losing units especially when it forces you to sacrifice one.

[@glitchwarrior7270]

THIS. I know people hate Prologue 4 because of that, but if it's one's introduction to the series, it's basically telling the player that it's OK to lose units and sometimes you have to make difficult decisions.

[@holschermarc]

I actually can not play a FE Game "normaly". I started with FE7, but since i knew Perma Death was a thing i just accepted it and never even thought about restarting just to save a unit. I of cause restarted Game Overs since i wanted to see the end but i always did it very begrudingly because i HATE replaying the same chapter i just played. Mostly because its boring. I did one fuck up in the end that i need to change - so that means i am gonna play the exact same turns again for 30 minutes without something new or unique happening. Its like i watch my own replay. Its frustrating and i rather cut my losses and move on. I remember that half way through my first FE7 Run a friend of mine told about how what i do is a Ironman (technicly a Tin Man - but he didnt knew back than that i would reload Game Overs) and that many people actually reset maps for their units. I found it kinda odd but gave it a try when i did Eliwood Hardmode after my first Run. I mean what better moment to play with extra safety rails then my first time entering Hardmode ... right? Yeah i didnt finish that run. On the Dragon Isle i got so fed up with reseting that i abandond it all together and didnt touch the game for half a year. Than i returned, did it as a Ironman, screwed up a lot and in the end did the final 3 HP Damage with a really cracked Florina that beside the 3 Lords and Athos where the only survivor. I - fucking - loved -it! This is also one of the reasons why i loved PoR but hat RD. Path of Radiance was easy but dam did i shit the bricks a few time. In the end Mist and Elincia where my last Healers. But Mist was to busy cracking skulls because she over took Titania in the strenght department and acted like a mounted Myrmidon on the Frontlines. It was hilarious. And it ony happend because i was forced to use Mist since my other Healers died. RD on the other side i havent even finished Act 1 because every Unit is a Gameover Condition to the point where i just dont wanna play the game. I love games that are connected by changes. I loved Golden Sun 1 and 2. But i just cant bring myself to play RD because being constantly forced into replaying the Map without having the freedom to decide that i dont give to shits about Leonardo is so overly frustrating that i cant do it. I just value my time more than my units. I even like it when a B-Support of a unit i like dies, because that gives me an excuse (of cause i dont need an excuse to use unit its i like, heck i use Canas every dam run - its just a way of saying) to use it again in the next run so i can see the A-Support. So yeah i really dislike reseting because i feel it robbs me of my time. No units is important enough for me to do the same thing again for 30 Minutes.

[@waferdaze8017]

Yeah, as someone who came into this franchise with Awakening, I have always tended to lean on casual mode, Because that's earnestly what it feels like a lot of the modern games are designed around. I think Revelations would actually make a pretty fair ironman once you get past some of the meaner designs of some of the maps. Mainly because the cast is so huge effectively merging two whole fire emblem casts into one, to the point that you do get late units, issue is of course, that Rev units are weird in terms of their starting stats at times. Alongside the general issue with the 3DS games where units are much more frequently projects. Casual means the only punishment for failing to keep a unit alive is that they aren't getting fed as much, but can still stick around to get EXP in the next map. IT WAS only recently that I did connect the dots that "hey, maybe I SHOULDN'T waste so much time in Fire Emblem trying to make ALL of my units evenly leveled and try instead to hard focus on making a smaller handful viable via feeding them." Suffice to say, it has made replaying the Fates games so far a much more smooth experience than sitting down and trying to grind units I know are gonna get benched towards the end anyway. I might actually commit to playing a Classic Soft Ironman down the line even, cause we do have all those units on the bench and with some games it's not like grinding isn't an option usually. It's certainly an interesting thing to consider.

[@jacobkakyoin6882]

I might argue that FE3 is an even better potential ironman than 1 or Shadow Dragon. Book 1 is the shortest version of FE1 and similarly easy to the original while still just a touch more interesting for its changes and also having that ‘no NES era Fire Emblem Jank’ appeal. Book 2 has more challenge to it but also still gives you a great amount of units to juggle and the dual challenges of going for the good ending and side objective saving the girls at the end can also add a lot of tension. Star Shards obviously a great way to get replacement units up to speed fast.

[@goodsamaritangaming1997]

Funny story about resetting. I recently tried playing Fire Emblem Engage on Hard mode. On the first actual map in the game, I had Alear in the grass with enemies hitting 19% hit rates over and over. That was the unluckiest I've ever been and I got a game over because of bad luck with rng. Ironman sounds similar to Nuzlocke and with my luck, I don’t know that I want to try.

[@jackproffit4127]

the amount of resets on my fe conquest lunatic been crazy, i have lost my sanity

[@bryanisraeltorres7643]

I really felt the losing a unit during the end of a long map ang taking a break, 1 week break

[@RaisouE]

Ironmanning also goes really well with another alt. play staple: Randomizing! Some FE games don't even require modding to randomize, just creativity.

[@iamfierce222]

I always focus on the 12 units I want. I will push the others to die. It makes me more focused during preparation phrases. 😂

[@nicholas7525]

Every run after your first should be an Ironman. It makes the games way more fun

[@envan7865]

Given my entry into the series being Three Houses, a massive part of why I like Fire Emblem are the characters of my roster, supports and everything. I literally like the members of my army too much to Ironman, I just wouldn't play an FE where I don't like my roster

[@peste4592]

rip fire emblem 3 then 😔

[@Hewasnumber1]

Don’t do it for Three Houses. Not even to keep characters you like alive, but just because that game blows to ironman.

[@AaronPICAR]

I’ve played Fire Emblem since FE7 and I’ve only had one casualty I didn’t reset for. I let Wil die on the desert level. On subsequent play thrus, he stays on the bench

[@tutorialboss4090]

I finally accepted losses in a gba rom hack. On the 2nd map of the game I lost my "jaegen," a freshly recruited SECOND pre-premoted character, and my flier. Didn't even want to consider restarting I just let them die for failing to wall off enemies properly for us. My lord is now my power house carrying if we get in a sticky situation.

[@brianb660]

I thought up till right now that “classic” mode was literally an Ironman run, like I never considered restarting to be intended, so I never did classic cause honestly I’m kinda bad lmao

[@jemolk8945]

I'm very OCD completionist, so ironmanning seems like it would be a really bad time. That said, Fire Emblem _has_ been helping with that in other ways -- normally, I find that it feels like a compulsion to recruit everyone, get every chest, etc., etc. Made a bit of headway on breaking past that, though, when I decided that in Radiant Dawn, the ending of the game was overall better for Tellius as a whole if Oliver was dead rather than recruited. So now I've started killing Oliver when I play RD. If I can do that, then maybe I can be okay with otherwise suboptimal outcomes more. That said, for me, a lot of the challenge in Fire Emblem comes from that complex dance of getting everything with the limited time and limited resources you have at your disposal, and I actually worry that ironmanning would _remove_ some of that challenge for me. One of the more brain-busting, and therefore fun, challenges I've set for myself in my recent replays of Path of Radiance, for example, is in the desert, getting every hidden item and killing no enemies but the boss for the bonus EXP condition. Be a lot easier to do if I could allow people to die rather than having to figure out a way to do it perfectly all in one go.

[@Aarongeddon]

I love iron mans and it's basically my default way to play even when it's a new FE for me. ...Because of that I still have never used Jade in Engage because she always dies before I recruit her lmao

[@redsilversnake]

I think "copperman" would be better to use than "soft ironman".

[@GIR177]

Copper is denser than iron...

[@mc.type_guy]

I remember when I first played FE3 book 1 ogma died after a long map and I just said fuck it. I wasn't actively ironmanning the game I just didn't wanna reset but he became a hero in my brain because of it.

[@nestormartinez3216]

The funny part is using different units/strategies

[@sirbradfordofhousejones]

Just lost Jagen on FE11 doing an arena. I’m 100% ok with this. I would rather my actions have consequences than to take chances and reset cheese. The losses feel greater and it creates memories for replacements

[@kevanmcentee2174]

My first, and so far only, ironman was a soft ironman of Radiant Dawn. Could have gone better from what I recall.

[@chadam917]

I've never done an iron man, but I've definitely let some units die on my conquest playthroughs for my sanity's sake. R.I.P. Niles, your daughter came in clutch, though later

[@Jaknize1]

Got to disagree with you on Ironmans. Yes it's super annoying to restart chapters if you lose a unit. I can't move on if a unit dies. I tried it the first time I ever played fire emblem with 7, but then reset and started over again because It was too stressful and not fun to not have access to characters. Might be my OCD but I can't continue the chapter if I lose someone. It's the opposite for me. It would create way too much stress for me to move on after losing a unit because then who knows what happens down the line and you screw yourself because you lost a unit and now you don't say have access to staves or you can't use A or S rank weapons because you lost those units. It's way too stressful for me to continue on after losing a unit. It's annoying and frustrating but I will always reset.

[@TuskyBaby]

If you were to actually attempt an Iron Man you'd realize those fears (depending on the title) aren't warranted. I wouldn't reccomend Iron Manning FE4, Echoes, or 3H, but most other games give you plenty of items and new characters to make it through. Take FE7 for instance. You're consistently given powerful pre-promoted units up until the very end, some of which surpass your potential training projects in the same class (Hawkeye, Pent, Louise, Harken, Renault, Vaida). Then to really make sure you can finish the game, you get Athos for free in endgame. There's really no need to get so stressed out.

[@Jaknize1]

@@TuskyBaby fine for you. But I can't play FE like that. Everyone lives no exceptions. I cant move on if someone dies. I hated how shadow dragon forced you to lose a character in the prologue. It really made me not want to continue. Losing characters isn't for me> I know FE 7 like the back of my hand. But still I would never move on if I lost someone.

[@TuskyBaby]

@@Jaknize1 You absolutely can, you're just not allowing yourself to. Its okay. They're just 1's and 0's.

[@Jaknize1]

@@TuskyBaby I like how you're taking such offense to the way I play the game lol. You play it how you want to, and I will play it how I want to. Not sure why you feel the need to talk down to me because I play it the way I do. I'm not changing my stance. I don't move on if a unit dies. End of story. So I guess...deal with it.

[@TuskyBaby]

@@Jaknize1 Not offended, but I do think you're goofy. We're talking about video games. Its not that serious

[@garak55]

I started playing with the 3ds games and just assumed that Ironman was just the default way of playing the game so that's what I did. I was almost finished with the game and I complained about it being kinda short to my friends who are veterans of the series. That's when I learned that the accepted standard way of playing the game was autistically resetting your save and pouring hundreds of hours into it. I called them casuals and finished the game with half of the roster dead lmao

[@JoeMama-hf4xh]

*favorite unit dies to a 3% chance crit *purposely force main lord to die "Oh no i guess i have to restart the chapter"

[@jacobcrist7982]

so if you get a game over and it's not your fault you should restart your ironmans?

[@LadyB_20]

Ironmans also put forward the strategic side of FE ganes FE is categorized as a tactical RPG more often than not.

[@Ganonmustdie2]

Oh we're...not supposed to ironman on the first run of a game? Well that explains why I haven't picked up Engage in months. I MIGHT'VE managed to get all but 9 of my units killed by the boat chapter (the chapter has a max 9 unit deployment anyway but still XD). I was worried that if I kept the run going I'd get softlocked by having too few units to complete the game, so maybe using the time rewind ability a few times is in order. It's good to know even the longtime pros see the games aren't designed to do a blind ironman playthrough, which takes the weight off my shoulders.

[@commonpepe2270]

The awkward thing about a soft Ironman is that it sort of makes you main character the most expendable unit on the field, or even straight up feel like a reset button. You sort of have to make yourself act as if you were playing a full Ironman even though you're not. The only real solution to this i have found, is having some kind of 'punishment' in place for a reset, like having to sacrifice a randomly selected unit to pay for a reset.

[@87392v]

My first FE7 run was a soft iron Man by your definition. One funny loophole: i lost my wyvern and became very sad for the rest of the level, but was delighted when my lord died to a crit and I got to reset once without "cheating" 🤪

[@Xeconis]

Honestly, I haven't considered Turnwheel/Divine Pulse/Time Crystal as against the rules of an Ironman. I only deemed it as "you lose when the lord dies and you don't reset for character deaths" and considered the rewind mechanics as part of the way the game is designed and figured that they were fair game. After all, if you run through 11 uses of Divine Pulse to try and save someone, I think it's 100% your own fault and you should just move on. That's a lot of attempts. The rewind mechanics to me are just an integration of the Casual mode that only holds your hand with deaths until you're reached a quota where it says "Ok, let's get you to bed." There's a whole other topic of if Casual mode is redundant or not with the integration of rewind mechanics that I don't want to get into.

[@thanakoto2239]

my first Iron man wasn't even intended to be an Iron man, it was my first playthrough of FE7 and i'd lost Rebeca late into a chapter and didn't feel like resetting, so i just kept running with the deaths (It was a soft iron man, i reset upon lord deaths) While it was fun i felt guilt over each death

[@Sashitoge]

FE6 definitely deserves a mention as a great iron man game imo, at least on normal mode for those not super familiar with the game. The only real caveats are the gaiden chapters, where you can miss out on the true ending if some characters die and you can't get tto the gaidens, and if you're playing on hard, some bosses are so absurd that they're really not fun in an iron man setting. But on normal, it has an immense cast to replace your fallen units with and the small route splits can make each run of the game very variable. If you don't mind FE6:s more rng-heavy jank elements, or rven like the chaos they can bring to an iron man, it might be the best iron man game in the series.

[@picleus]

I was doing an FE6 hard iron man but am on rage-hiatus after killing Larum on 12x. I think it does a lot of good things for iron mans, but also has a lot of very frustrating parts. Some that I noticed were: Some very good units are locked behind other units that are you may kill (Larum for Percival and Milady for Zeiss are the best, but Fir, Ray, Garrett, Gonzales, Juno, and Karel all risk becoming unrecruitable). Some units also have low enough luck that they risk crit deaths for a long time. Lance and Rutger are the worst here, especially since Rutger is somebody you'd rather keep alive. And then just some of the ambush spawn locations are pretty dumb, but you can avoid frustration by keeping map guides open. In it's favor, low hit rates help you not get killed when you make mistakes. Also, the early game has some great maps, 4 and 7 especially.

[@0ceanking]

The frustration of restarting a long chapter is so real, to the point that it kept me from finishing every FE game I played until I decided to soft ironman FE7 for my 3rd attempt at beating it. By the time I did that, though, my skills had improved to the point that I only lost a single unit by the end - Rebecca in Ch. 30, when I didn't check the boss's inventory before moving and so Limstella sniped her with Bolting. Yet that became the most memorable part of that entire playthrough! I remember feeling so sad because of how she was just a child, and how her father almost didn't let her go because of the danger.

[@SharurFoF]

For a soft iron man I'd be concerned about the incentive to suicide the Lord if things are going poorly. I like the idea of, if you lose your Lord, you have to kill a random other character.

[@elainasjournal5734]

Is it okay to ironman while also use time rewind mechanics though?

[@FrederickHopper77]

It kind of defeats the point? I’d argue that the games with the rewind mechanics aren’t good to Ironman anyways. The witches in echoes make it unfair as there’s no consistency as to when they teleport and who they’ll attack on top of the game being designed around you using every unit in most main battles, you only have to limit in dungeons and the final battle. Three houses is also about long term investing into your units, and ironmanning can softlock you out of part 2 in all but edlegards route with reunion at dawn. And you get up to 12 rewinds in both of those games by the end, so it’s unlikely you’d use up enough and still have anyone die. Fates is the best game to Ironman, birthright specifically, (revelations has more units as buffers but the endgame is quite difficult with a not well built team. If you pick a team of even gender, you can try and marry them off as quickly as possible so if one dies you can get their child as a backup, and if both parents die, you can recruit one of the other children or there’s about 4 extra adult child bearing units. Birthright also allows grinding for money and supports , which isn’t considered a true Ironman by most, but you can still die in these battles and the benefits aren’t as game breaking as 12 do overs, you still have to properly plan and make it through a battle even if you might have slightly better weapons of supports (you can also ignore them but for people afraid of ironmans they’re great.) if you don’t want those battles you can do some of the children missions for extra battles as you still have to put in effort to unlock them. Awakening is similar but less consistent in its pairup mechanics and the child missions do not scale to where you are in the game.

[@FrederickHopper77]

Fates also has pair up bonuses so even if you have a lot of late game deaths and have to pull in very under leveled units they can still be used to give your front line stat boost, as well as being a staff unit or rally unit depending on class availability.

[@bificommander7472]

In 3H, I've tried what I called bronzeman: No divine pulse, except death to crits. As stated, 3H doesn't shower you with replacements. I wanted the challenge of having to make careful decisions. But you can't really plan around randomly getting tripple damage, unless you are so overpowered that normal attacks are trivial, and the game gets boring. (This was my problem playing Awakening after 3H. After seeing what passed for normal in 3H I started on hard. Had to reset 3 times in the first two missions, mostly after crit deaths. So I started on normal, which was a roflstomp after the first few missions, even though I wasn't properly (ab)using that game's overpowered mechanics.)

[@Trayzonne]

tbh i soft ironman Fire Emblem while discovering the game, makes it not too punishing but at least it's not tedious to restart a map over and over because of a missplay

[@DarkSoulsSauron]

i did an iron man recently and honestly i felt sabotaged by my own adhd. i was making Strategies and planning things out and then kept making the mistakes i had actively planned not to make. things like trading items after combat to cover wpn triangle, messing up positioning because i was playing without the mod that let gba fe show enemy reaches, saying out loud to equip certain gear on a character at chapter start and then just... forgetting. it was frustrating because i was constantly acknowledging my own strategies and then not following through because of my disability. i can see the fun in the format, i was just craving a turn wheel to correct minor positioning mistakes and silly under errors that sent ripples thru my playthru in a way i disliked

[@klissattack]

Watching you not use animations just kills my soul...

[@powerfulberry237]

Ironman also allows me to turn battle animation on past the first 5 chapters. I always get sick of them after a while and knowing I may have to reset and watch the same steps repeated over and over when resetting maps make the animations all the more intolerable. Ironmanning instead makes these more dramatic and suspenseful

[@snolls105]

I was wondering what an ironman is. Isn't that just playing the game as intended tho, or am I missing something?

[@snolls105]

to clarify, I mean, like, in any instance where you click classic mode or where permadeath exists. playing through the same map repeatedly sounds boring.

[@snolls105]

anyways, i'm playing sacred stone for the first time. I just reached the point where you're green man. I'm pretty sure, like, five people have died already. It's great.

[@snolls105]

first death was Erica at, like, Chapter 2, doesn't count because she comes back. anyways, death counter. 1. some guy with an axe gives a heartfelt speech about how he left the military to raise his son but his son is like "no, we must fight." Anyways, chapter immediately after, son dies. Rip bozo. 2. Bow lady dies the first chapter I get to use her. I sent her to kill a guy at 1HP but forgot to check if the counter-attack could kill her if she failed the hit. Rip bozo. 3. I obtained Bernie Sanders the Instrument. I was like "I love her, she's purple and she commits arson by dabbing." Anyways, I forgot she was mortal and she got speared by several guys. Rip bozo. 4. The incel murdered the horse guy with green hair. Sad day. Rip bozo. 5. Then Seth killed the incel in self-defense before the green lady could say hi. Anyways, then Colm survived on 1 HP. So, thievery may continue. This is significantly better than my 3 Houses playthrough, where, if I remember correctly, I managed to get literally everyone killed within the first four hours of playing the game (I was on easy mode, Edelgard's route).

[@glitchwarrior7270]

Gaiden/Echoes is *not* made for ironman. Case in point: I lost an ironman *horribly* in Alm's side ch4, as every unit in the Deliverance got picked off one by one by one. First I lost Silque, then Clive, then Mathilda, then Luthier, followed by Python, then Emma (yes I have the DLC), then Delthea, then Kliff, then Faye, then Gray, then Randal, and then the last chunk of my party made it to Marla before Tobin, Forsyth, Lukas, Clair and finally Alm got picked off. For reference, Celica's party only lost Kamui, Valbar, Est (who got res'ed), Leon (who got res'd), Genny (guess what I brought her back), and then Est *again*. I still enjoyed the run more than my normal ones.