Why is 5+5+5=15 Wrong on Common Core Test

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What is 5x3? 15 right. Why is 5+5+5=15 on Common Core math tests wrong.
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[@Ashstrodamus1]

I would've put 7.5 x 2 just to fuck with the teacher.

[@WayManlyWay]

or 15 x 1 then I would have written, "lolumad?"

[@MrKillzy]

remember class: 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

[@d.anielb4661]

this is edited which makes me think you can't count... is joke, comrade

[@ProfessorSyndicateFranklai]

900/60 also works.

[@JJ-hp2oe]

*teacher marks it wrong* "It's actually 2 x 7.5, Jimmy."

[@michaelparker2449]

Maths should be about finding the solution the most efficient way possible and not about complicating that process to get the same result.

[@MOS-rs8bt]

that is a very offensive thing to say

[@chroniclethality3864]

Michael Parker damn right

[@revanreborn1219]

Michael Parker Agreed. Math is very much that. I still use it with different methods to get the answer. Common core, fix the problems.

[@KazumiKiguma]

Let's take that thinking and put it towards language. In language, we're constantly evolving it to make it easier to communicate with each other, and this has resulted in things like slang and text-speak. With language, you're taught the proper way and people come up with the slang and such themselves, and maybe eventually that becomes the norm. So now tell me, how is that any different than with math? You learn basic language components and structure early on in your life because it helps to have when you get to the more complicated parts of language later on, and that's the same with math. These are still the basics, and if you change the basics because it's easier for them now, they're going to have trouble later. You can still teach a kid that addition and multiplication problems can have the numbers switched and get the same answer, but letting them know that there's a reason later on to keep it consistent is important.

[@revanreborn1219]

Rukifellth On that we can agree.

[@carealoo744]

That doesn't even make sense though. To say five times three. You take the number five and times it by 3

[@kremitthetaco8725]

So 5x3 and 3x5 are not the same thing... good to know

[@mr.actiongal1017]

yeah nothing in common

[@ItIsMeTime123]

You sure? So far in my math, I don't even have to use the Repeated Addition. I don't think you know what you are talking about, as you copied and pasted that comment on other comments.

[@kremitthetaco8725]

Chuck Boutwell The magic about multiplication is that you can just turn the number all around, up and down, and still have the same thing. If you tell a kid its wrong because they did this, youre basically telling him that a certain mathematical method that is very important for everything that comes after is wrong. How can it be right to teach a kid something wrong?

[@DLBBALL]

Kermit The Taco It's called commutative property.

[@calmdown9094]

5 sets of 3 and 3 sets of 5 are not the same thing. make it a thing and it becomes obvious. 5 sets of 3 reps of the bench press versus 3 sets of 5 reps on the bench press. is that activity, identical? did i reach 15 in the same way? i didn't ask you how many 5 sets of 3 are, i asked you how much 3 sets of 5 are. answer the question correctly.

[@garyconyers-davies5781]

British maths teacher here with 25+ years teaching experience in secondary schools. (Aged 11 - 18). As a maths graduate I know there are many ways to answer a lot of maths questions. I can think of 10 ways to answer 125x45 for example. Any student who gives a recognisable, correct method to get the correct answer will get the marks. BTW the "grid method" for long multiplication (that Americans call common core) is a perfectly valid method, as well as the traditional "column method". Some kids prefer one methpd, some the other. Others have their own methods, and if it works for them - great.

[@josecapella2514]

Here are all of the Common Core standards that "define" multiplication. I invite any and all to peruse them and tell me what they have to do with the example above. My own commentary follows at the end. ******** Grade 2: CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.OA.C.3 Determine whether a group of objects (up to 20) has an odd or even number of members, e.g., by pairing objects or counting them by 2s; write an equation to express an even number as a sum of two equal addends. CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.OA.C.4 Use addition to find the total number of objects arranged in rectangular arrays with up to 5 rows and up to 5 columns; write an equation to express the total as a sum of equal addends. Grade 3: CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.OA.A.1 Interpret products of whole numbers, e.g., interpret 5 × 7 as the total number of objects in 5 groups of 7 objects each. For example, describe a context in which a total number of objects can be expressed as 5 × 7. Grade 4: CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.4.OA.A.1 Interpret a multiplication equation as a comparison, e.g., interpret 35 = 5 × 7 as a statement that 35 is 5 times as many as 7 and 7 times as many as 5. Represent verbal statements of multiplicative comparisons as multiplication equations. CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.4.OA.A.2 Multiply or divide to solve word problems involving multiplicative comparison, e.g., by using drawings and equations with a symbol for the unknown number to represent the problem, distinguishing multiplicative comparison from additive comparison. ******** As you can see, none of these concepts dictate how we are supposed to interpret the order of grouping in multiplication. Perhaps one might take the example in the 3rd grade standard too literally as the ONLY way to solve the problem. However, the grade 4 standard strongly implies that using the commutative property of multiplication is perfectly fine. Like so many "examples" of how bad Common Core is, this one misses the mark. CC is meant to give a comprehensive list of the skills needed to master mathematics. It NEVER prescribes how we are to teach them. This test, while carrying the CC label, was likely written by someone with too rigid an understanding of mathematical rules to allow for students with flexible thinking. Or quite possibly, the rubric for the test itself might never have said that the answer had to be a certain way and it was the teacher who insisted that only one way was correct. Similar to the uproar caused generations ago by New Math, Common Core is being railed against by a generation of people who didn't fully understand the true purpose of math education, and who are now labeling EVERY new thing they see as a product of these standards. Don't get me wrong - they are consistently ATROCIOUS examples of bad teaching, but they have almost nothing to do with the standards. And even when they do, they are inevitably awful and small-minded misapplications of them. Not convinced? Feel free to explore them yourself, as I have been doing for over a decade. www.corestandards.org/Math/

[@avishevin1976]

The position taken in the video is that a large part of the backlash against CC is that teachers were not prepared for it. That is not attacking the standards, but rather the application. It's all CC. You can't change the standards, explain them to nobody and then expect everyone to be happy.

[@seekingpathways1045]

5x3=15 is 5+5+5...it is not 3+3+3+3+3. The whole reason why you memorize the timetable sequentially is because when going from 5×3 to 5×4 all you would have to do is add five mentally. If you solved it 3+ 3+3+3+3+3= 15 then when you want to mentally calculate you would have to add 4+4+4+4+4= 20. Versus 5x3= 5+5+5 = 15 then the next is 5×3=5+5+5+5= 20. Another way of looking at it is we dont say triple 5. Would say 5 tripled. 5 × 3 is saying 5 items distributed 3 times. The teacher is wrong.

[@Achillionable]

God, (IR, +, x) is a commutative field, meaning 5*3 is literally and mathematically equal to 3*5

[@pookz3067]

Achillion but one equality would be true by definition, and the other by commutativity. They are fundamentally true for different reasons.

[@starmanskye]

Exactly!

[@M0odez]

@Pookz Wrong, (IR, +, *) is not defined as a commutative field, it just happens to be one. 3*5=15 and 5*3=15 are both true because of how the function * is defined, and commutativity follows because * happens to satisfy a*b=b*a for all a,b in IR. Commutativity is fundamental for teaching young children times tables, because it halves the amount of information they have to learn once they understand the pattern.

[@lukealias1uk345]

@@M0odez I don't see how that makes it not a commutative field

[@M0odez]

It is a commutative field, but that's not the reason 3*5 = 5*3. As I said, commutativity FOLLOWS (i.e. it IS commutative) BECAUSE 3*5=5*3 (and all the others of course). One of the replies here confuses the order in which definitions are applied and assumes 3*5=5*3 because it is commutative, so one of 3*5=15 or 5*3=15 is true by definition and then the other follows from commutativity. This is the wrong way of applying definitions; I was trying to correct this because it was a critical point in my own learning of algebra on my degree. (Notice the @Pookz, indicating a reply to the reply posted by Pookz and not the original comment) (and also if I said "wrong" followed by explaining how it fits the definition of commutativity, there is probably a different context in which my reply was written)

[@peacefuldawn6823]

I once got a question wrong when I was in year 7 because I started talking about imaginary numbers... and I wasn't supposed to know about them yet XD

[@mathiasrryba]

Peaceful Dawn if only I knew about complex and imaginary numbers when I was 13

[@mathiasrryba]

mharris1270 English is not my 1st language so the wrong terms might be caused by that. I'm currently getting an engineering degree in robotics and we have lots of maths.

[@ginnyjollykidd]

Peaceful Dawn Oh for criminy sake!

[@badgerbane]

mharris1270 Imaginary numbers aren't algebraic equations, they are the square root of negative numbers. Since you can't take a square root of a negative number, you instead say that the square root of -1 is j (or i, if you're not old school like me).so the square root of -16 would be 4j, which is 4 x the square root of -1. Not surprised you haven't learned it. It's pure theoretical maths, only has some uses in engineering, even then not that much AFAIK.

[@Phoenixia111777]

Complex numbers are fairly basic and all over mathematics. They show up in basic quantum mechanics, they also show up in rotations, especially in programming. Complex analysis is a vital tool for number theory, as well as for a lot of geometry. Even if you don't see them, they are lurking behind the scenes in a ton of results, methods, and technologies. If they aren't well known it's only because they are never emphasized. There's no reason they couldn't show up in early education, they're not much more complicated than fractions, which are, ultimately, the same concept of an algebraic based completion (same for integers). Honestly, the reals are probably more difficult to grasp than imaginary integers.

[@LoganStargazer]

Some teachers have a real problem. "Do exactly what I say, or else!"

[@gwildgoose]

The explanation is wrong, the math statement 5x3 is 5, now multiply it by (x), in this case 3. Which is 3 sets of 5 or 5×5+5. To say otherwise is to literally translate the phrase "the red car" into "the car red" , which is ok if you're spanish, or perhaps mathematically if you're common core apparently. +

[@kellog1242]

to me i read 5 multiplied 3 times so I would see it as 5 and 3 groups of it

[@thevashfan12392]

honestly they are interchangeable and either display acquires the SAME result.....that's the part that makes me very irritated

[@michaeltoso3611]

The definition is defined by the teacher & textbook. It becomes more flexible as the student understands each lesson.

[@MurseSamson]

Teaching kids that there are multiple ways to solve mathematics, is the purpose of "Common Core" - it shows that there is a common source for (most) of mathematics. It teaches the interchangeability of math and how to look at it differently, and in a less rigid structure to build the organic nature of mathematical insight. Later, when higher education students get into proofs & calc, this is incredibly useful because math isn't always logical and it doesn't always follow an easily determinable rational pattern. Sometimes, there is no pattern. Or any logic, and that is what you're trying to determine as a: Physicist 👩‍🔬 Computer Programmer 👨‍💻 Research Doctor 👩‍⚕️ Chemical Engineer 👨‍🔬 Mechanical Engineer 👷 👩‍🏫 So the teacher here, or perhaps the school board missed the entire point of the teaching strategy. 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@gilian2587]

Student: I got the right answer! Why is it wrong? Teacher: Look, you remember the lesson from Tuesday? I showed the class that 3*7 = 7 + 7 + 7 = 21. Meaning if you were paying attention to how **I** did it, you would know that 5 x 3 means 3 grouped 5 times. And that saying that 5x3 is 5 grouped 3 times is just wrong! Student: So... you're less interested in the fact that I know how to do math and you are more interested in how well I "followed **YOUR** instructions". I have dog named Sparky that my parents sent to obedience school, training him how to listen to the instructor. Are you telling me that passing **YOUR** math class is dependent on how well I *OBEY* your instructions? Teacher: I don't like your lip young man; march yourself down to the Principle's office right now!

[@TheSmartgutt]

Heh... a×b = b×a And therefore 3+3+3+3+3 = 5+5+5 In our used number system, it doesn't matter. In others - it does matter. Like matrices and others..

[@hesibully8800]

But none of my math teachers and social studies teachers can’t tell me how this will benigit me in life🤦🏼‍♂️

[@Hexi75]

This is like geometry dash changing from portals to potions.

[@davevanfunk8917]

At least the kid understood the commutative property

[@My-Pal-Hal]

Really ??? Then they should have gotten it Right in the First Place.

[@howiedick6857]

The math problem was designed to teach kids a principal of multiplication, not to simply get the right answer. We do not want to create robots, but to create understanding.

[@Getvagazzled]

my life is too fucking short for this bullshit

[@neilmehta2363]

Thanks

[@michaeltoso3611]

Complain to home schools, they do it too!!!

[@williamcrowe8344]

Getvagazzled amen

[@Brucecont.]

Amen bro

[@p.w.golding9676]

So you assume that he made the realization before watching the video? Is that common core projecting?

[@thejuiceweasel]

The fact that the kid used common sense to make the much shorter derivation of 5+5+5 shows that he clearly understood the problem *and* is probably not a lost intellectual case like the people that came up with this nonsense.

[@swisstusion4734]

Alex May EXACTLY

[@hirodsrling2226]

Imagine if Newton just got told "sorry we don't do it that way" when he created calculus to better find certain results

[@lindaosika7648]

Newton was not a child just beginning to learn.

[@markharmon4963]

A lot of people probably did say calculus is unnecessarily complicated. Proving a limit is much different than, "close enough". Have you ever given calculus a try?

[@happybear3706]

I hope ppl realize that the way Newton and leibniz did calculus was completely different. Newton’s version of notation was harder to read so we didn’t adopt it.

[@markharmon4963]

@@happybear3706 I am interested to know why you think your mention of the difference of Leibniz and Newton is relevant to this discussion.

[@FlashToso]

@Become upset. Common Core IS actual math to produce flexible problem solvers, not just training mindless human calculators! Strange classwork stimulates thinking!

[@AlienRelics]

I had poor teachers like that. I remember correct answers marked as wrong because "we haven't learned that way yet." So students are penalized for being smart! This was long before "common core".

[@Camberwell86]

Haha in Year 7 (age 11) I said to my science teacher something about pressure and he roared "DON'T TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE PRESSURE UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY MEAN!" and I said, "pressure is simply force divided by area" and he just stared at me like he wanted to kill me and moved swiftly on. Prick \(^_^)/

[@ok-wi7kt]

Camberwell86 wow so smart

[@Camberwell86]

You're far too kind

[@aaron2997]

I thought the whole thing about common core was to promote students learning from other students.

[@Ranzord95]

Oh, I remember a good one. Checking homework at class. Teacher tells me to go to the blackboard and do an exercise about calculating the perimeter of an equilateral triangle. In my mind I simplified the specific formula for equilateral triangles (side x3) to the one valid for all triangle perimeters (side+side+side). I start writing the formula. Teacher asks what am I doing and tells some shit kid to do it for me, using the specific formula she taught. Teacher tells me to write *50 fucking times* all the perimeter and area formulas we had so far. I spend till 2 a.m. writing that shit. The next day she forgot about it so I spent hours doing that crap for the fucking funsies :)

[@wbjeg]

As a full-time Asian, this absolutely disgusts me.

[@WeeHen]

I work as a white male 6 hours a day.

[@switchless6637]

WeeHenThe Amazing I work 5 hour being a white cis male, 10 hours being black, and then the next 8 hours being every other kind of person.

[@blankuser987]

as a half time asian, and a half time american i am also disgusted with this common core logic

[@mush2938]

Eliza Schuyler Me also

[@sean7173]

As a half time Asian (Russian) This destroys the soul

[@333whiteraven]

Things like this make me happy that I chose to homeschool my children.

[@anymaths]

watch my mathematics videos.

[@Dingsrud]

But the teacher here is wrong. Multiplication is commutative, 3*5=5*3.

[@sassy3923]

God bless you for homeschooling. Are you aware of more families homeschooling as time goes on?

[@333whiteraven]

@@sassy3923 Yes, I am! And I'm super excited that the homeschool community is growing!!!

[@angelinastuart6239]

@@333whiteraven I'm homeschooled :D

[@alfredodelacruz6380]

I thought this was going to be a mind blowing lesson about why 5 plus 5 plus 5 is not 15

[@BrewzLoL]

Same tbh

[@Heartwood_TV]

It's still mindblowing, but instead of super deep and incomprehensible quantum mathematics, it's mindblowing how FUCKIN HORRIBLE EVERYTHING IS NOW

[@DarkLord-7]

I kinda thought so too. I tried doing the math in my head, I did it on a calculator, I got 15 both times. I would want to know since when did they change all that? What have we been learning this whole time?

[@brownshoeblues2014]

Too much weed homie.

[@gasstationbathroominnevada]

same wff

[@chiffmonkey]

Visually a 5x3 and 3x5 rectangle are THE SAME RECTANGLE because which axis is X and which is Y has not been defined.

[@michaeltoso3611]

This is "repeated addition" used in home schools. GOOGLE IT!!

[@tupactheory3739]

They do - but at a later age, and because they haven't been taught this, oh, shit, they're fucking dangerous, discourage them!

[@RipleySawzen]

The same rectangle, yes, but a very different matrix.

[@MichaelGoldenberg]

You might try actually reading the grade level standards in math for, say, K-3 on multiplication and see when students are taught that addition and multiplication are commutative. Also, check to see where they're taught that 3 x 5 = 5 + 5 + 5 and NEVER 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3. You'll have a very long search in front of you, since that's not claimed in the Common Core at all. You're seeing the results of mathematically weak teachers following a teachers' manual from a commercially-published textbook series like robots instead of like teachers.

[@tracer6402]

WoW,Did't know that *Sarcasm*

[@snakesocks]

It's a commutative law of algebra that A*B = B*A

[@kurtcasablancas3453]

Ya man well if I order 3 hookers a piece for my 5 friends (me included of course), and 5 hookers a piece show up for 3 of us, someone who thinks like you is gonna be stuck with his hand.

[@pillarshipempireemployee0142]

2x-2 -2x2

[@analuisahering2149]

Exactly ! It's the very first thing we learn when doing multiplication !

[@xostler]

Oh dang, you beat me to it.

[@bradrolph44]

by teaching kids this common core way they might miss out on this rule and struggle with algebra

[@BaremetalBaron]

The great irony is that they're marking students wrong for something that shows that the kid actually understands the material and is capable of improvising with it. If the student can only follow the steps by rote exactly as you have specified at all times, then there's a very good chance they don't understand and can't apply the information to novel situations. But worse, I would argue that "5*3" is grammatically ambiguous about grouping. The way *I* have always read "5 times 3", I interpret it more like "5 multiplied by 3", not like "3 groups of 5". Indeed, interpreting the phrase "5 times 3" to mean "3 groups of 5" sounds like archaic and stilted old-timey English to me, and does not roll off the tongue at all. So if I were one of these knuckleheads who thought it mattered which way they grouped it, I probably would have marked the *other* answer as incorrect. But seriously, there is no "correct" grouping of 5x3 in the abstract. To mark them wrong here is just factually wrong, because the commutative property is a fundamental algebraic relationship. Getting pedantic about notation with 8 year olds to trip them up with technicalities is just sick, especially when that notational quirk is just an arbitrary convention chosen at random and is in no way implied or infer-able from the usage of that notation, and doesn't even affect the result. Again, I would argue that what the child did is more intuitively correct.

[@wadeourednik2323]

This should have reply’s too.

[@Tiffany-sr2ed]

@@wadeourednik2323 There is nothing to reply to here. It is a sound argument.

[@autumngraves6175]

I see what you did there. 😆

[@FlashToso]

Why do adults blame Common Core for traditional LOCAL lesson & grading policy???

[@FlashToso]

@@Tiffany-sr2ed Sound argument to IGNORE traditional LOCAL lesson & grading policy?

[@tappedout300xc]

Common core lacks common sense .

[@makalien_9168]

Right???? I hate common core it's too confusing

[@ben41281]

David Kinney so the way that was taught for generations, teaching multiplication tables, worked for many generations, isn't a proven way? Common core is all about dumbing down children.

[@tappedout300xc]

The problem with common core is it takes basic simple math and makes it way more complicated than it needs to be .

[@dorkmax7073]

tappedout300xc Holy fuck will everyone quit getting pissy about common core? Its wrong for the same reason you were wrong school for just writing the answer "You didn't show your work". Common Core standards are just trying to show kids an easier chain of logic to better understand arithmetics. It basically breaks down large numbers into bits so that adding to, subtracting from, dividing or multiplying these bits of numbers is easier than doing the same to the whole number. You do it every day when you make change with coins. Its just trying to teach numbers to be practical. So calm the fuck down about common core.

[@tappedout300xc]

Coda ; Looks like your the one getting pisssy here . No need to get upset defending common core . It's not upsetting me talking against it . Now calm down and get yourself a Snickers bar .

[@JayA-jr6ge]

Whelp I've lost (5x3) IQ points. Or did I lose (3x5) points?... shit...

[@meissmart6678]

I think you've really lost (1 + 1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) + (1 + 1 + 1) IQ points.

[@SuperVarunan]

Meis smart no everyone here is stupid, you've lost [(5+3)+(3+5)]^0+(5+2)2

[@roprop3895]

{2773√[372(х^40)]•3.7654e/i[286πr^2(345.56°)]-3.37e145}^0-{√25•-3-[e^(π•ι)]}

[@SuperVarunan]

rop rop ok you win,I'm too lazy to enter that into a calculator

[@meissmart6678]

*+rop rop* Boooo! Eliminating everything by raising it to the 0 power is cheating!

[@trstmeimadctr]

This is ridiculous. High-level math is ALL about equivalency.

[@SianaGearz]

Fester Blats, third graders? You are saying THIRD graders? Are you serious? Since when does it take more than 2 years of math to get past addition? That's fourth month material, first year. Usually around that time, children are also supposed to know that the operations of multiplication and addition are order-independent - if they aren't told, they will recognise that themselves within months. And well, thing is, the language itself is ambiguous because the operation is commutative. "5 times 3" does not really correspond to any particular real-world experience. It could mean "5 groups of 3" just as well as "5 repeated 3 times", with latter being merely rearranged to better correspond to mathematical notation, and linguists don't even know for certain which it is. Indeed with non-commutative operations, it's kind of common that the first operand is the primary one, while your (and teacher's) interpretation suggests that second operand is the primary operand of multiplication. Another point to be made is that the student is being punished for being resourceful while being correct, because adding 5 three times is easier than the other way around, and punishing that seems like a terrible idea. School is supposed to develop universal skills, like creativity, critical thinking, logical reasoning, ability to combine these skills to gather and process data and arrive at new conclusions. It's often observed that it doesn't succeed at doing this, that often it quenches creativity and has you memorise an ever growing set of recipes that allow you to handle specific situations, but not even slightly different ones, recipes that are quickly forgotten once they fall out of use, leaving the person rather helpless. If you were looking to see why that might be the case, you have a real tangible example right here. You might object, that if we don't punish creativity here, you're not gonna know whether they understood that not all operations are commutative. But that's the wrong way to go about it - you just need to test that separately by including test cases where they would mess up if they failed to grasp that.

[@b__c7538]

+Snax But apparently spelling is.

[@Minecraftian09]

Fester Blats Kids should understand that 3 x 5 is the same as 5 x 3. It's a property of multiplication that doesn't occur in division or subtraction. Teaching it this way would be more confusing, and could easily make some student think that the order matters.

[@nexus1g]

The bottom line here for me is that if teachers want their students to adhere to "grammatical style" in mathematics, they need to be providing the style guide.

[@michaeltoso3611]

The video ignores the lesson where "repeated addition" is defined.

[@brandonkey181]

"You wont always have a calculator with you" Well thats where youre wrong

[@fincrazydragon]

You always have a calculator with you. It's called a brain.

[@comradekitty3759]

And a cell phone just try to pry that from anyone under the age of 40

[@inorite4553]

I'm an Engineer but I was in college at 35, I want nothing more than to staple this comment to my high school Math teacher

[@angelinastuart6239]

@@comradekitty3759 I don't have a phone. I'm wayyy younger than 40. All my friends have phones, my family has phones, why don't I have one.

[@hayesscarbrough8829]

This is why I hate common core. This kid was just thinking for themselves and got marked wrong because they didn't do it how the teacher wanted. This somewhat happened to me in Algebra 2. We took a test and when we got it back I had made a 40 on the test even though I only got one problem wrong. The teacher said it was because I didn't work it out how she wanted me to.

[@JNCressey]

At least it's not as bad as computerized testing: *Sorry, you got the wrong answer!* *You answered "15" - The correct answer is "15"* *Review your working and find where you went wrong.*

[@RunninUpThatHillh]

Ultimately kids are taught to follow directions, take orders. Not think. People cry conspiracy but just look at it! LOL..

[@withoutcommentary-kh6rx]

your comment has 15 likes

[@pirobot668beta]

In high-school, I was nearly expelled for refusing to 'show my work' when factoring polynomials. I had developed a technique where I could do in my head, and it always worked. In Mr Takahashi's math class, everyone showed their work. I tried to 'show my work' by using my technique, but he couldn't follow it. "Do it the standard way!" The teacher was old-school, so my refusal was a discipline issue, not a mathematical one. I made an appeal to the school counselor to prove my point. They tested me by having my teacher write problems on the board, and I was to call out the solutions. He wrote over 250 problems, including some that were deliberately badly formed, which I caught as well. At one point, I was calling out answers as quickly as he could write the problems. He was mad. He didn't know how I was cheating! I had to present my technique to my math teacher, a school counselor and the Vice Principle that I had learned to factor in my head and to prove it, I walked them through the process. They all understood the process after that, and the VP thought it was a 'clever trick'. After a few more examples, my teacher just left the room, silently. I was excused from showing my work, but I still had to pretend to do it, for the sake of other kids! BTW, the 'trick' is to ignore some of the terms, and look for patterns of sums, differences and products of the whole numbers. If there is a 13 and a 42, then 6+7 and 6*7. You also know that everything is positive, as 6 + 7 = 13. If you had -5 and a -36 then 4-9 and 4*-9 is afoot. That -5 is telling us about the difference of the terms, the -36 tells us that one term is negative. 4+-9, 4*-9 = -5, -36. Sums, differences and products give clues as to the order of the terms and their signs. I was told this was cheating until I proved that it works.

[@falynch]

I was put off maths for years by a moronic teacher because she always marked me down even though I got every answer right just because I layed it out vertically and not in a horizontal line like she wanted. Back then I thought "I got it right and its still not good enough, I tried so hard to get everything right, I'll never be good enough she hates me" because that's how little kids think. It ended with a massive argument between my dad and the school Turns out the only reason they could come up with was it 'wasn't policy to teach students to lay it out vertically until year 4' my dad was furious.

[@ratshitstrap8622]

"Johhny has 3 apples, he eats 2 of them. Calculate the radius of the moon using only a paperclip and this information. You may not step outside between 7:00pm and 6:00 am for reference of any sort"

[@grim7076]

ISHERWOOD75 the answer is lamp

[@Anon54387]

ISHERWOOD75: One too many hits on the bong?

[@basedimperialism]

Clearly The answer is the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

[@cookiethecartoon7515]

The fUDGE

[@jaydenh5748]

I think I had this question in 7th grade

[@niboe1312]

I feel kids could get the wrong idea with a scoring system like this. They might think 3x5 does not equal 5x3.

[@michaeltoso3611]

"Repeated addition" is defined by home schools as "number of groups times group size" or 5x3=3+3+3+3+3. They learn 5x3=5+5+5 later when ready.

[@niboe1312]

Michael Toso Why aren't they ready at the time multiplication is learned?

[@michaeltoso3611]

No videos here Have you tried to communicate with youngsters? Keep it simple with an eye on learners' maturity.

[@niboe1312]

Michael Toso I certainly wouldn't want to drop learners off in the deep end, but students will have already learned that 1+2=2+1. If you say multiplication works the same way, nobody will be confused.

[@michaeltoso3611]

No videos here I am willing to let the teacher define how to teach. The video title says "Why is 5+5+5=15 Wrong on Common Core Test". In this case the lesson is "repeated addition" and the video ignores that.

[@biggreentruck4907]

I've always read "5x3" as "5, 3 times" , which would be 5+5+5. Conversely, I would read "3x5" as "3, 5 times", or 3+3+3+3+3. Not that it matters; you get the same answer, either way. Every single example that I have seen from the Common Core system, shows me that they have overly complicated simple math. Simple math needs to remain simple. It is the foundation for the more complicated math. If students of the more complicated math do not have the comfort of the simplicity in the simple math, if basic addition has been made overly frustrating, how will they learn the complex stuff? And, if they can't learn the complex stuff, God help us when we have no competent engineers in 20 years! Whoever came up with this nonsense, clearly holds a position of no importance, and had to create this asininity in order to justify his own existence. He should be promptly horse whipped, at noon, in the middle of the town square. So should the nitwits that pushed this garbage into the school system.

[@meme-hz1mq]

EXACTLY!

[@dazzlingcelery]

I read and interpret it as 5 groups of 3.

[@WillCamx]

I agree with you but both are mathematically equivalent and correct.

[@ShamoKwok]

@@WillCamx the problem is, it is not useful

[@redplays7678]

Me too. Cause my teachers reads 5x3 as 5 MULTIPLIED BY 3. So 5 is duplicated 3 times instead of the vice versa

[@KX36]

The Commutative Property is a fundamental of mathematics. a.b = b.a The 3rd grader instinctively knew this because it's so obvious, even if they don't know the name for it. By marking this answer wrong, the teacher is essentially teaching a child that the commutative property is wrong, which is fucking indefensible.

[@Noah-fn5jq]

Your slightly incorrect. It is fundamental to the "common" number system. Matrix multiplication (for example) isn't commutative. That said, for the age level, the commutative property should be accounted for.

[@draken1331]

I wish I could hit like more than once, you beat me to the point. For simple multiplication such as this it is imperative that the student KNOW the commutative property, not be told it does not exist. This will certainly not prepare a student for later math classes, except to prepare them to fail. As an ME major I know the value of the commutative property, without it I could never solve any of the problems I get.

[@michaellautieri5541]

The commutative property guarantees the answer will be the same, regardless of whether it's ab or ba. However, 3x5 and 5x3 are not the same math problem. The former is "three instances of five added together", while the latter is "five instances of three added together". That principle is the basis of all further mathematics, and should always be taught before shortcuts such as the commutative property. Math isn't always about what the answer is, it's about the understanding the concepts behind the problems in order to understand how you arrive at the answer. You could tell a first grader "10 squared equals 100", and they could memorize that answer and spit it back to you whenever you asked them. Unless they understand WHY, though, then the entire thing is pointless. Instead of memorizing multiplication tables and spitting them back whenever asked, students are learning how to understand the concept behind multiplication before anything else. If anything is indefensible, its the fact that we used to teach simple memorization instead of teaching principles and concepts like we do now.

[@Noah-fn5jq]

Mike L That is a linguistic approach to math, which is still wrong. Any problem (of this type) can be expressed either way (3x5 or 5x3) and communicate the same "story".

[@michaellautieri5541]

You're correct, if the "story" you're referring to is solely the answer. 3x5 and 5x3, although they yield the same answer, are not the same problem. Even still, the point is completely moot in relation to the story presented in the video, since the problem didn't ask "what is 5x3?", it asked the student to use the repeated addition strategy to solve 5x3 (source: the paper itself i.imgur.com/KtKNmXG.png). Using repeated addition, 5x3 is not 5+5+5. It's 3+3+3+3+3. The student failed to correctly use the strategy being stressed in the example, as is further explained by the student's other error visible in the image I have provided. Common Core stands, the student was wrong from both a conceptual perspective as well as the practical application of the concepts he/she was supposed to be using.

[@krispibean6775]

Common core is basically the education system getting mad at you for being smart and taking shortcuts while they're the ones being dumb and doing things in unnecessarily complicated ways.

[@yannismorris4772]

Gavin Pinto I hate overcomplication

[@randommay1261]

Gavin Pinto EXACTLY they're trying to drag everyone down that's America for yoi

[@NACtheMC]

I know right, smh

[@immortalstar0138]

you Tony Stark profile pic makes your comment much more satisfying.

[@GhostHostMemories]

No. common core is basically wanting a kid in Alaska, California, Maine, and Florida to learn the same thing at the same time. So by the time they graduate HS, they all "know the same info." It's the curriculum the schools choose that causes the problem. The state standardize test don't care bout the "shortcuts" used, they just want the correct answer. But the teacher is stuck with the book lesson, and grading on that scale. So if a lesson states that aXb=b+b+b+..+b and the student shows the work as a+a+a..+a, then yes they are wrong. It's along the lines of this question "use a blue crayon and a yellow crayon to show what happens when you mix the two colors." You have a blue, yellow, and a green crayon. You know the end result is green, so you just use that. But you are wrong, because you didn't follow the directions. Silly, yes. But it's testing a skill, not an answer.

[@TrackHeadStudios]

How ridiculous. "Hey son, don't think, be a robot."

[@dalejones6575]

Sadly that is what common core is doing. When I was growing up, as long as you get to the answer in a logical and efficient manner you were fine. Adding Five Threes together seems like the inferior option to me, since it takes longer. I was helping my sister in law with this crap a few years ago. I have seen the idiocy first hand. Assiging PEMDAS problems without explaining PEMDAS. Sorry for the angry rant, common core just really pisses me off.

[@goldstar9174]

TrackHead Studios It's the opposite of being a robot. Common Core and the teacher were checking for the understanding of a concept as opposed to accepting a robotic answer. Think before you comment. This is what is being taught: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2fcnGyFaZinacU

[@TrackHeadStudios]

Chilly Willy Give me a day or two to consider before I reply (I'll have to reboot my 'robot' brain first so I might employ "the understanding of a concept.") ;)

[@northdestiny2575]

Chilly Willy Understanding of what concept? Multiplication is commutative so the answer was indisputably right. The 5x3=3+3+3+3+3 is used in English speaking countries, in Italy (for example) the preferred formula is the one the kid wrote, although both can be used (look it up on Wikipedia if you don't believe me)

[@TrackHeadStudios]

GREAT GREAT POINT North Destiny. Thanks for backing me up... and with the proper vocabulary even: commutative. Nicely done. Rock on.

[@ethansmith5560]

I always understood it as the first number being the one replicated and the second number being the amount of times. So 4x2 would be 4+4 not 2+2+2+2

[@ST40]

That was my understanding as well.

[@ari3lz3pp]

4+4 = 2+2+2+2 But I used to see it the way you do. I innately do. By I think it's better to learn it goes both ways because of the concept. Because 2+2=4. It's just grouping while skip- counting and pattern recognition. It's unfortunate that most teachers don't teach the critical thinking aspect of it. The foundational skills of problem solving vs "repeat after me" . Yes there are strict formulas...but most are not as strict as it seems they are teaching in public schools. And even worse....they are taking simple formulas that work great as they are, and complicate it for no good reason. It's a mental experiment of redirection. So glad I homeschool. Thank God. ❤

[@MelodyAssassinscreedluver]

A lot of teachers overthink simple math. Like yea 2+2=4, and 4+4= 2+2+2+2. But that's also saying the same as. 2sq +2sq = 4+4 = 2+2+2+2. Or 4+4 = 8, Sqr8 = 2+2+2 = 2qr2. So multiple ways to think about it.

[@maxwellcomstock3558]

Common core math test: 5x3? Kid: 5x5x5=15 FBI: Don’t fucking move

[@moneluve1000]

omfg this comment got me wheezing😂

[@dilennoris6547]

5x5x5=125 though.

[@edmontonguy2008]

should be: kid 5+5+5=15

[@fuckthestate8594]

That's the point dude

[@RollingStride101]

That would be 5 cubed.

[@Ian-sm3su]

That's it I'm dropping out of third grade

[@TheSnapback]

Dat Fancy I finished third grade 7 years ago

[@agonleed3841]

Dat Fancy my son already did. Have been homeschooling him sense. And he's back to being advanced because of it.

[@elenakendrick6279]

TheSnapback Same

[@darcybrummett7004]

Common core math is a joke.

[@Snow-xd4rv]

I agree its shit I should burn my common core books

[@Bramsen92]

Actually its a good thing... its just that the teachers are all using it wrong >_>

[@athier5898]

its not a joke. its teaching on how to do it for ALL problems with in math. like multiplying u can do that in the standard why but that doesn't explain how u get your answer in a clear way (yes u can figure it out but I need a bit of thinking ). with common core, u can take the principle and apply it say 54x 24 4x4 = 16 4x50 = 200 20 x 4 = 80 and 20 x 50 = 1000 add them up which is 1000+ 200 +80+16 1200+ 80 +16 1280 + 16 = 1296 now using those steps u can multiply any number you can think of (this will change on how fast your able to do it) common core it to see why u do the things in math and not just saying "oh its always been like that". from what I've seen, most people don't number stand math and where number and ideas come from so common core teaches that. So no it's not dumb just executed poorly

[@darcybrummett7004]

That's taking the looong way around.

[@athier5898]

thats not the point of common core. yes it take forever but u got to know how to do the math before u can take sort cuts. u have to crawl before u walk and walk before u run.

[@williamjones2994]

If one of my inspectors came to me with common core style computations when I was running highway bridge contracts, I would have had them sent to a maintenance crew to fill in potholes and pick up dead animals.

[@DivineArtemis]

Both is the same. Teachers are teaching sh***

[@zefalien5584]

Shit has 4 letters so why put "Sh" then 3 more asterisks?

[@radconserv68]

Both ARE the same. Oh wait, we're not talking about grammar. ;)

[@keshavmurali98]

If he's British, he *might* type it as shite, which is an acceptable spelling. :D

[@zefalien5584]

Im gonna assume hes an alien

[@ram-sj4bs]

DivineArtemis well they thought you shit. Cause you're dumb as hell . too dumb to see the big picture

[@fourbeansalad5808]

2 words: Commutitive property

[@clan567]

*commutative

[@michaeltoso3611]

Just as traditional math teaching, Math is taught step by step & commutative property is taught when the teacher decides usually in the same year!

[@itsjugu]

How tf; there is nothing to distinguish like parenthesis therefore there is no correlation to commutative property.

[@aqibos]

ItsJugu Have you gone through common core or what?

[@itsjugu]

Aqib Shah Yes, I'm a freshman in high school rn, and I was talking about distributive property sorry about that.

[@mothra__13]

so school is becoming even more ridiculous and soul-crushing. didn't think that was possible.

[@CinnabarCereal]

same

[@jaysjay6796]

Oh trust me from this 11th grader...it gets worse

[@visibleconfusion9894]

You are basically telling me that 2+2=5 now

[@noahstevens3060]

2+2 can equal 5.

[@Nugcon]

2+2=Fish

[@connerlacefield8575]

Noah Stevens how

[@noahstevens3060]

It depends on what you take into account. If you add 2 and 2 you're by necessity the fifth thing in the equation. Another Example is 2+2 has to exist in context of what isn't those 4 things i.e. space thus being a fifth entity in the equation. 0 is equal to 1 when considered in isolation, 1 in contrast to 0 is 2 things and so on.

[@shreyashdeogade8869]

@@noahstevens3060 I would be really grateful if you could provide me the source of any one of the above stated examples. Also, if you would provide me the source, please make sure it has some valid proof.

[@stephaniejoobern1001]

It's wrong because the person who was grading it just lost all their money gambling and needed to take their frustration out.

[@potatowalrus8714]

or just because it's wrong

[@blackphoenix8932]

Stephanie I reckon it was a Ponzi scheme.

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

Stephanie Joobern Since when has moral right affected mathematical right? So, if you are happy, 2+2=5 because its happiness extra?

[@stephaniejoobern1001]

Ribbitgoesthedog Lastnamehereyeah It's just a joke, friend.

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

Stephanie Joobern You really should put a silly face after it, because its really easy to confuse with a real opinion. Not that it will work 100%, as the net is filled with idiots, but it its easier to distinguish from the sea of ineptitude. Thanks.

[@paveldrotar4493]

A teacher, wanting to get some paperwork done during class, gave his pupils the task to add all the numbers from 1 to 100 together. Before he could sit and open his paperwork, believing that they had enough work for the whole hour of the class, a single boy said: "Five thousand and fifty". The teacher asked how did the boy know it so quickly. The boy explained that by adding the first and last number, 1 + 100, he'd get 101, by adding the second and second to last number, 2+99, he'd again get 101, and that there were 50 such pairs, resulting in the total 5050. That boy was Carl Friedrich Gauss, a genius mathematician who has over 100 different things named after him. The pile of crap that is the Common Core would send Gauss home with a "WRONG!"... W-T-F, America.

[@MisterMitchMM]

Awesome example of thinking outside of the box. My first math professor once said to our class "There is more than one way to get to Seattle." Math is the same way. As long as the answer is correct it doesn't matter which route you took.

[@AwoudeX]

my math teacher added to that the limitation to only use the ways that produce the correct answer all the times and not the ways that produce the correct answer only some of the times. He would give you the warning that his test will include the math problems that would require you to use the methods that are universally applicable for the same type of problem. He wouldn't downgrade harshly if there was usage of non-universal methods, but he's there to teach you to cope with all problems and not just the exceptions.

[@AwoudeX]

Magnus Anderson one function with 3 elements and another with 2, you're comparing apples with oranges, congratulations for not recognizing 2 different type of problems to solve

[@magnusanderson6681]

+AwoudeX you could factor it if it was nx-1. That was my point however, if your teacher wants you to use a solution that works all the time, you wouldnt be allowed to factor or use other solutions that make it a lot easier but dont always work.

[@magnusanderson6681]

+Magnus Anderson And yes, I realize maybe I shouldve thought of an ax^2+bx+c function, just didnt want to spend an extra little bit of time to do so.

[@BEATL96]

Wow, that's dumb. They're both the same thing. One is just shorter. Isn't math all about simplifying equations?

[@KaelynWillingham]

No, not even close... Math is about understanding relationships between ideas.

[@roberthiggins4186]

that depends on your view point m8. Math is about many things, simplifying your equation for a specific solution, understanding the process to repeat that, using that understanding of common processes to solve more complex problem.

[@ognjengaric2687]

Dude, don't be so racist.

[@Ematched]

Zack Cyrus yeah, how dare she not teach algebra at the same time children are learning the basics of multiplication? She's treating them like elementary students. What a bitch.

[@imMIB123]

+Zack Cyrus so wait, you make an assumption about this teacher, and then proceed to get angry at someone else for making an assumption about this teacher... we don't know if the teacher failed algebra, we also don't know if Ematched assumes EVERY teacher is female. you're just throwing around assumptions... don't be a hypocrite.

[@jsr4096]

"Common Core" is incorrect. This is correctly expressed as 5+5+5. According to pemdas, the calculation is executed from the left. The first term (5) is "multiplied" 3 times. Not the other way around (commutation rules aside). If you don't believe me, substitute in a division operator and attempt to apply the same logic. The error here is, they've tried to introduce a semantic of "associativity" (specifically for the multiplication operator)

[@timmyturner5864]

Exactly that's how I interpret it It's asking for 5 3 times not 3 five times.

[@brettknoss486]

Not at all. PEDMAS reffers to parenthesese, exponents, division/multiplication, addition/subtraction. It say nothing about left or right. 5+(3+2)+2/5*5/2= in no way follows left to right. In fact because of the communitive property, it doesn't matter at all. draw a rectangle, 3" * 5", now cut it out and hold it in your hands. No matter if you hold it portariat, landscape or ascue, the size of the rectangle will not change.

[@jsr4096]

Seems we're getting into semantics, but okay. PEMDAS doesn't explicitly call for execution from left to right, but is rather define an order of operations which would --otherwise be evaluated from left to right--. Fair enough. Let's take the 2÷5*5÷2 portion of your expression. The reason, is that PEMDAS is moot here, as multiplication and division have equal precedence. Executing the 2÷(5*5)÷2 (mult. first) yields a different result to 2÷5*5÷2 (from left to right). So if it "in no way follows left to right", how am I to know which order to execute this? While there are uncountable examples of commutativity (e.g. the example you gave), what do you do in situations where commutativity is not applicable? Perhaps I've misunderstood you? Apologies if so. (edit: spelling errors)

[@_IronLion_]

@@brettknoss486 After PEMDAS has been applied, the rule is the evaluate expressions from left to right. So the kid's answer is the correct interpretation of 5 x 3. If you want to bring commutative law into this, then both answers are correct and he/she should have been awarded full marks still.

[@brettknoss486]

@@_IronLion_ that is not a rule in any way shape or form. It can actually be more efficient to combine in different ways, or to switch yhe order, especially with algebra. The order simply doesn't affect the result, so this is not a rule.

[@asmcriminaL]

I know calculus 3, I can say that... 5x3 is really 5 3 times. 5+5+5=15. What they are teaching now goes against the fundamentals of mathematics.

[@michaeltoso3611]

Home schools say "repeated addition" for 5x3=3+3+3+3+3 or "number of groups times group size". GOOGLE it.

[@bazerger6258]

If they feel like they have the right to determine one as wrong, they should be able to prove why it's wrong, with math. Having 2 roads leading to the same place, "the second road is the right one" is not a valid answer to why the first one is not.

[@michaeltoso3611]

BaZERGer The question is "What is the lesson?" We are talking about youngsters here and being consistent. keep it simple. They learn 5x3=5+5+5 later when ready.

[@asmcriminaL]

It just boils down to the language. I messed up in my original post. 5 times 3. Means 3+3+3+3+3 = 15. It is actually accurate.

[@michaeltoso3611]

asmcriminaL Google "repeated addition" It is taught in home schools too. The idea is how to teach to youngsters.

[@nameuserer2970]

There is some high-class fuckery going on in school these days

[@robbijay7868]

Teaching multiple ways to reach the same answer is effective teaching. However, penalizing a student for thinking differently than they are told to think is outrageous. I'm so disappointed that this is what teaching has become. They are encouraging group think. Can anyone see how dangerous this is!

[@KJBPSkipper]

Robbi M Welcome to nazi world order...

[@georgia2954]

I can. And I'm a teacher!

[@DansilSchroeder]

KJBPSkipper Communists do the same thing, ya know. It's not just Nazis that wanna outlaw "wrongthink" just because they don't agree with it.

[@DansilSchroeder]

John King David Except that it wasn't poor or sloppy. It was completely reasonable, saved a shit ton of effort, and led to the same answer. We're not talking about Calculus AB or nuclear physics, this is multiplication and addition.

[@DansilSchroeder]

John King David I think you're the one with the head up your ass. Notice that the problem is 5 multiplied BY 3. The inverse would be 5 divided BY 3. I actually taught pre-calculus for five years and before that, 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade maths in somewhat random order (due to a lack of teachers at the district I worked for) for a good eight years, so I would recognize this stuff is absolute insanity. No kid should have to be punished for actually using the right formula, much less using AN EQUIVALENT FORMULA. If the formula gets you the right answer every time and it's simplified and thus nets less possibility for mistakes, USE IT, or you're only making things harder for yourself. EQUIVALENT FORMULAS ARE INTERCHANGEABLE. That is why they are equivalent.

[@TheCanadaghost]

The answer is simple: They are teaching the kids to OBEY. And do it even when illogical. Powerful programming.

[@44linqz]

Truth!

[@kimiscool7]

Great insight!! and until you said it i couldn't understand why common core was so strict in controling how children think. This is far scarier than I thought. WOW common core removes any independent thinking or "out of the box" ideas.

[@kimiscool7]

Great insight!! and until you said it i couldn't understand why common core was so strict in controling how children think. This is far scarier than I thought. WOW common core removes any independent thinking or "out of the box" ideas.

[@brianmorris8045]

Yeah...teaching kids to obey alright, Canadaghost...the Fabian way, on the way to the New World Order. God I am glad where maths was concerned, I grew up in a conservative era..otherwise it would be a case of "You will be put under the bright light and will not move till you break down and agrees that 4+3= 62!!! Shades of the book "1984" again folks! Was written by Orwell as a dire warning...but no one took any notice, bar the a/holes who want to turn our lives upside down. Our teachers in primary school showed us straight away the different equations that made up for example 15. We didn't need to worry about a lengthy process to arrive at that obvious number. Yeah, I am an old fart, and learnt basic stuff in primary school that they now teach in high school...sheesh.

[@TheCanadaghost]

Brian Morris Well if you compare Orwell and 1984 to Huxley and Brave New World - Huxley was closer, as Orwell claimed our enslavment would be forced on us, and Huxley said it would be something we ended up begging for. Huxley was closer to the truth, all we need, as he suggested is a wonder drug to take all our troubles away, could say its already here as Opium drugs like Oxy etc. Hmmm

[@jcaesar19871]

I'm so glad Florida got rid of that common core crap.

[@kubush]

JCaesar Another idiot that doesn't know what common core is.

[@jcaesar19871]

kubush I know it has held back students because of it. You're the idiot here defending this broken program. You probably have a kid that relied on it while all the smarter kids were passing grades, but couldn't advance because yours was falling behind.

[@ariesmight4141]

kubush. Anyone who believes that senceability can come from nonsense. Is the stupid idiot.

[@waswestkan]

Florida did so to the detriment of Florida's kids. Not conditioning kids how to more easily handle more andvanced math can't be good thing. this question was *not* testing the kids comprehension of the commutative properties of multiplication in the simplest of terms, if the event it where about that both answers would have been correct

[@kubush]

JCaesar That not how common core works. Common core is actually a higher set of standards than what states had before. You call it a broken program yet you have no clue what it is and how it functions.

[@GhostSal]

It’s a way of teaching students to be good workers and conform. It’s sad really, not everyone thinks/learns the same way, figuring out problems creatively should be encouraged.

[@bobvance4242]

In soviet Russia you dont take Common Core Common Core takes you

[@bananya6020]

*soviet America

[@ha1d55]

TAKE ME COMMON CORE 😩😩😤💦💦💦💦👅💦💦

[@counter-weightmedias2263]

vladimir makarov Who's that in your profile art? Not the Makarov, I play cod but that sexy girl who is she?

[@lryuzaki1192]

vladimir makarov Who is that handsome Russian man as your avatar? Is he you?

[@bobvance4242]

Counter-Weight Official Channel lizzie velasquez

[@Tithe-kh3fj]

5x3=3x5 Proof: 5x3=3+3+3+3+3 =15 3x5=5+5+5 =15 5x3=3+3+3+3+3=15=5+5+5=3x5 Therefore 5x3=3x5. Is there really need for proofs to explain as to why the kid is correct? Ffs

[@mercymain1692]

Tithe3016 LOL. Math major?

[@abandonedpicnic]

Tithe3016 omg

[@Tithe-kh3fj]

Mercy Main cs major

[@spodermano]

Hackerman

[@anonduckduck]

The reason is actually pretty simple. Because (at least for me) multiplication and division are leaned around the same time, teaching young children that you can swap multiplication, but not division,can be confusing. Also, the simple term for 5x3 is "5 of 3", which again, could cause confusion in young kids. I see where you are coming from, but if you take into account all factors, you can see why it was done

[@Joshverd]

So. Everyone got this in their recommended, eh?

[@joshpecker4352]

Joshverd I did

[@mothra__13]

i came here from a laotian dam collapse video

[@BruceKendallMartinJr]

Yeah I was watching comic books and video game lets plays...fuck u google

[@RedSky-vf8bf]

I was watching the Cinema Snob review a porno spoof, and this was in my recommended. Maybe if it wasn't *almost TWO YEARS OLD*, it'd have some relevance. Google must be practicing necromancy or something, raising vids from the dead and cramming them into our recommended lists?

[@brentmohammed7850]

Joshverd yeah so as me

[@KVergara]

This is like saying that "Where are those people going?" is the incorrect version of "To where are they going, those people?"

[@carultch]

The second example of yours sounds a lot more clumsy, and sounds like the way someone would say the line if they were writing a script for Yoda. It sounds nothing like the way I would expect anyone to naturally talk. A better example would be the "don't end a sentence in a preposition" rule, that many teachers insist you follow. It ends up requiring you to beat around the bush to say simple sentences, and rearrange the preposition to a place that sounds so unnatural, and makes it so much more complicated to follow the sentence. You can end a sentence in a preposition, it is just called an adposition instead.

[@douglasfrazier2856]

the commutative property states that A + B = B + A therefore, by the rules of math, the given answer is correct. If the testers wanted the operation to be done in a different, specific way, the question should have been asked in a sufficiently defined manner so as to REQUIRE that the operation be done as intended. Math is a precise language, the fault was due to the writers of the test itself.

[@victos-vertex]

How come this comment has 34 likes when it's talking about mathematics being a precise language while stating the commutative property for addition when the video is about multiplication? I guess people simply aren't willing to read carefully enough and just "like" what ever "sounds right". Your first sentence makes it sound as if there is " THE commutative property" for every binary operation - which would be false. Thereby your very comment isn't precise enough even though multiplication does also have the commutative property.

[@CryptoDatabase]

Dominik Gerndt, because those who liked it are correct and you are ignorant. Commutative Addition and Commutative Multiplication are identical.. 4x3=3x4 and 3x4=4x3. Learn some math before trying to tell others their correct answer is incorrect. You could have googled this in seconds instead of coming here posting wrong information.

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

Douglas Frazier It seems the information provided in this video and available to the schoolchildren is different. Math is a precise language, and the correct answer is precisely 3+3+3+3+3. If the teacher hasnt taught that, then thats the problem right there. But what the teacher should have taught, is to ALWAYS do it the precise and defined way, at least in school, and then let the kids do their own way after school, if they wish. There should not be a sufficiently defined manner, if there is a need for it, then the teacher has not taught properly. If the teacher has taught properly, then it is the fault of the student who hasnt learned it properly.

[@misanthropemeanguy8181]

Multiplication also adheres to the commutative property, it only doesn't apply when there is also a arithmetic function in the statement so (8+1)*2 is not equal to 8+(1*2) but that is why there's a formal order of operations that always applies absent parenthesis to indicate otherwise. He is correct, the commutative property dictates that a*b = b*a, understanding the commutative property along with when it applies is an essential tool in advanced algebra, discrete mathematics, trig, and calculus. You do kids no favors teaching them things that must later be unlearned. As for evaluating correctly to 4-5 verses 5-4 is a bad example. Subtraction written that way is short hand for addition using negative numbers the commutative property doesn't apply there because you're essentially saying -4 is equal to -5, the way 5-4 should be written is 5+(-4), now suddenly we see that the commutative property does indeed still apply to subtraction. 5+(-4) = 1 = (-4)+5 All three statements are indeed equivalent.

[@vireopoo]

no, a+b=c duh

[@newgameld2512]

Plus! I was explicitly told in math (even in Common Core conditions), that addition and multiplication are reversible. Whoever made Common Core should be fired.

[@SecretAgentBartFargo]

Newgame+ LD You also forgot about how in mixed expressions the order of operations is always first.

[@4f52]

First "×" and "÷" then "+" and "-"

[@denizyuksel5093]

+Newgame+ LD Not in real life, though. But marking it wrong just because of that is definitely unfair to the student.

[@newgameld2512]

That's not what I meant. 2+3 and 3+2 both are 5. 5*3 and 3*5 are both 15.

[@dagothur9674]

BA = AB. A+B = B+A. A/B is not B/A. A-B is not B-A.

[@CaptainCocaine]

5+5+5 is simpler to solve. 5 is a simpler number in a base 10 numerical system, and there are fewer numbers to add. Someone should deduct this teacher from their job.

[@Ducxy]

Exactly, shouldnt matter what you put as long as it still equals 15 (or the answer)

[@Anon54387]

Congratulations Sadpants, Atel and Theo. You just proved your ignorance of mathematics. 5*3 is read as 5 groups of 3 which is why the student was to write 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 15. This distinction becomes important in matrix algebra, but since y'all haven't taken matrix algebra you don't know this. Your picking apart the curriculum which was written by people who actually know WTF they are talking about. They are teaching kids this so they'll have this idea down beforehand. 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 15 but the problem wasn't 15 groups of 1, but 5 groups of 3.

[@Noah-fn5jq]

I would like someone to write out the addition expansion of the following multiplication problem: 78546298012438723987234 x 4

[@davidochoa7473]

Sadpants McGee no it's not the teacher. She was told to teach in this common core way so if she marked it right (which it is right) she would be doing her job wrong. It's the common core method that's stupid

[@kaylaa660]

Anon54387 gosh then why do they say “use different strategies”

[@bbjustin]

it does matter because 5 times 3 is not the same as 3 times 5. The answer is the same but the content is very different. For example my neighbor married 5 times and each marriage lasted 3 years vs me married 3 times with each marriage lasted for 5 years. The number of years in marriage is the same at 15,but I only had to hire an attorney 3 times vs him 5 times. He had 5 wives vs me with 3. Is like who cares, we both were in marriage for 15 years.

[@gameragodzilla]

Except in your example, the two numbers represent different things: marriages vs. years. There's no indication that 5 and 3 are representing different things where the distinction would be relevant.

[@midlander8186]

Multiplication is commutative, which means 5×3=3×5, so the grader was completely ignorant in taking any points off. This level of incompetence can't be tolerated in education.

[@EbonyBunny1]

You are 100% correct

[@alexmomeyer9]

My thought exactly!

[@darthpatriot3166]

But wait...IT GETS BETTER. They get partial points for doing the problem correctly, but coming up with a wrong answer.

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

Alexander Damjanovich But Alex, it was neither 5x3 OR 3x5! That was not what was done. If you see a car, and you say its a car, you are correct. If you see a red car and call it a blue car, you are wrong. You are talking about the wrong problem. 15 IS INDEED an acceptable answer. But if you turn it to 5+5+5, it is not. 5x3 is very specificly 3+3+3+3+3. It is very specificly wrong if you write it as 5+5+5. There is, and cannot be a mistake about that.

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

EbonyBunny1 You are 100% wrong, since Alex there was not correct.

[@acidpatch5075]

When the hell did our education system forget that in multiplication it doesn't matter what order the numbers are in, same with addition. That's just how the student interpreted the problem (and they're not wrong). It would be a different situation if the problem was meant to solved in a specific way (and in this case that's just incredibly stupid), but it wasn't. The problem was asking what is 5 x 3. I'm glad I dodged this system by a few years.

[@the_bloodhound8610]

ikr c o m m u t a t i v e p r o p e r t y

[@deyesed]

French hFs the mark was deducted in a question designed to check understanding of how to read the multiplication operator left to right - the entire purpose of that expanding step. By teaching students to read it in one way, we're laying the groundwork for them to understand distributivity easier.

[@anonduckduck]

Allan Song Thank you

[@LocalGodC8]

because it DOESNT MATTER. They arent teaching them just how to find the correct answer, but how to find it the correct way within the curriculum. you cant teach new stuff if they arent doing old stuff correctly.

[@LocalGodC8]

having an actual structure to learning, instead of just memorizing a multiplication table is better. period. using your brain to think instead of just memorize answers leads to better educated, more intelligent students. its the OPPOSITE of what youre describing. instead of indoctrinating them with the answers without telling them how those answers are arrived at, its teaching students to THINK and process the information rather that regurgitate an answer. sure, there is a framework and it seems stupid to mark them wrong for arriving at the wrong answer the wrong way, but teaching people to arrive at an answer in a way that the next lesson builds upon, and the next lesson after that, etc etc leads to, like i said, a better education. no, its not the way you were taught, but american schools suck. they do. we are trying to improve that, and a more structured, more intuitive system is what other countries who have far better educations systems have been using for a long time. This really speaks of American prejudice and xenophobia. this is different than what i know, i dont understand it, therefore is it wrong. no. you are wrong. your hair-brained tinfoil hat government conspiracy malarkey is indicative of this.

[@SaiyaMan2011]

Why was this in my recommended?

[@alabastersmidge4692]

SaiyaMan2011 I agree!

[@Atari-Dude]

I thought the exact same thing.

[@robertdougherty8930]

Dan Brioli or they're making the whole thing up. First of all there's no such thing as a "common core test"; common core refers only to a set of proficiency standards, not any particular curricula. Secondly, this smacks of "aren't you OUTRAGED at this?!?!" that's usually a dead giveaway the storyteller is presenting an outright lie or very specifically edited facts in a heavily misleading direction so as to be, effectively, a lie. Until I see the actual test paper and hear the actual teacher's side of the story I'm inclined to believe it's fake.

[@cavecade9162]

THATS THE REAL QUESTION RIGHT THERE

[@ionlyeatbrainsdummy9858]

Yes. Why, indeed..?

[@joshcowart2446]

As someone who was always good at match and did lots of it in my head and therefor gave points taken off for not showing my work common core seems like a nightmare.

[@sergiopayan5336]

It is a common mathematical law that a • b = b • a. That kid was right.

[@ChaseDowling]

Not when a and b are matrices, so "common" is misleading. The idea is to teach kids math literacy, not arithmetic: the question is about what the statement says, not what it evaluates to.

[@sergiopayan5336]

Chase Dowling What?

[@RD500v2]

Sergio Payan matrix multiplication isn't commutative like alot of other Operations, ie for matrices A and B AB is not equal to BA

[@sergiopayan5336]

yung PVRP Is this video based on matrix multiplication??

[@RD500v2]

Sergio Payan no, I was just explaining chases point

[@lukefranklin5]

In 3rd grade I should have got 100 on a science quiz, but I got a 70 instead because I spelled false wrong, and every true or false question that I spelled false wrong on got marked wrong.

[@areadenial2343]

It's a fucking science test, not a spelling test. The teacher should have just written a note on your assignment that tells you that you spelled false wrong.

[@SethPortland]

no dummy, you were supposed to circle true or false. that's why.

[@lukefranklin5]

Seth Portland then why didn't she mark my true ones wrong

[@artdajso4101]

Seth Portland Even if you were supposed to circle the answer, I'm pretty sure any teacher still would've given the marks for the questions.

[@christopherhayward596]

I call bullshit.

[@mfwesley]

How the hell did i end up here?

[@TheIronman4891]

MF Wesley i was watching space shuttle take off videos and ended up here somehow.

[@SonicTrooper22]

I was watching scenes from Fullmetal Alchemist, then a video about Star Wars' Imperial March played with a pencil, and then I ended up here... weird, right?

[@prodNicks]

+SonicTrooper22 yeah LOL

[@gannonhunt4284]

Probably the pencil music.

[@mae6246]

SonicTrooper22 oml same it’s the freaking pencil stuff that brings us here

[@frgamer3833]

It's in the basics.... As per Commutative Law of Algebraic Operations a times b is numerically equal to b times a.

[@Dingsrud]

Yea, easy for you, now, knowing this fact. How did you learn it? By a teacher nailing it into you so you can copycat like a parrot, or in a way so you understand it clearly, so that it becomes ‘a part of you’. Remember, this is for the newcomers. They need to learn that 5+5+5=3+3+3+3+3 the hard way.

[@frgamer3833]

@@Dingsrud Woah dude it's been 3 years and I even forgot what the video was about XD. Anyway I never learned any maths of physics lessons by being nailed to. I learned every thing to the core and demanded proof for everything. I also learned the hard way .

[@jjtomecek1623]

If you ask me, it makes more sense for 5×3 to be the same as 5+5+5. To me, it's like saying you're taking the number five, and multiplying by 3. Or adding 5 to itself 3 times. Idk. It's hard to explain. All I know is that this is bull.

[@garrettdavis25]

5x3 is 3+3+3+3+3 fundamentally in math. You cannot switch it to 5+5+5 because that is wrong. When you get to higher orders of math such as calculus and algebra you can't swap the order around just because its easier, it leads to an incorrect answer. Try multiplying matrixes both ways, you will end up with different answers. One will be right and one will be wrong. This is why typically higher order math tests such as my calculus exam less than a 1/3 of the points given on the essay questions were for the actual answer. The majority of the points were for showing how you got to that answer.

[@jjtomecek1623]

Garrett Davis I understand. I'm just saying it would make far more sense (imo) for the the first number to appear the same number of times as the second number. You know, just because of reading left to right.

[@jjtomecek1623]

Garrett Davis but, I suppose you can argue it's like English, were the modifier appears before the noun, so I suppose it's the same concept in math. Even still though, I believe in every day life, 5×3=5+5+5=15 is more than sufficient. In matrices though, I understand that it's very different, and of course it should be done properly then. But for mundane life, it just doesn't matter.

[@jjtomecek1623]

Garrett Davis at the end of the day, as long as you get the right answer, and you can get the right answer every time, that's what's important. No need to make things more complicated than they need to be.

[@garrettdavis25]

You say it doesn't matter. But for the millions of engineers and other professions that require you to understand higher order mathematics it does matter. The point is to prepare you for a job you may need the skill for in the future. Just getting the right answer to 5x3=15 is never going to help you in life, especially when we have a calculator. It's understanding the concept of multiplication that will help you in life. Although I think the common core method is extremely stupid, this is one place they get it right. If you think the only thing important in math is getting the right answer, you dont understand mathematics at all. Not to mention if you think you can magically get the right answer everytime with this method in higher order mathematics, not only do you not understand math, you are probably very dumb. You can't just magically get every answer right every time. That is why we learn how to solve problems. Math is extremely straightforward, but at the same time becomes more and more complicaticated the further you get. Of course creativity is important in math, but if you can't even understand a fundamental concept of how multiplication works, you won't get further than calculus before you hit a wall. It's much better to teach students the proper way of multiplication early since its not any more complicated. Whats more complicated about it? You say its more complicated than it needs to be, but all it is understanding the order of which to multiply. The order of which you need to multiply matters at higher levels, and since its extremely easy to teach someone this way of thinking at an early age I believe it will help them since its no more complicated than the other way. However some of their teachings are more complicated and just confuse students. But teaching them that there is a difference between 5x3 and 3x5 is not complicated at all.

[@weirddoge3601]

5+5+5=15 QUICK MATHS

[@malachivonschlegel2016]

wrinkly doge Everyday man's on the block.

[@juliusnjoku2023]

Jack - Photography that question was an occus

[@tylermoore6718]

Da Ting go "skrrtt bapo'

[@alicwkd]

wrinkly doge *maffs

[@glenn7721]

wrinkly doge nope!

[@TheMacksgamer]

And this my friends is called inefficient. Doing more work rather then doing less work for the same outcome.

[@jesse_cole]

Disagree. Teaching a student what the question actually _means,_ and teaching the student that asking the question a different way can mean getting to the answer a different way is immensely valuable... and will SAVE them a lot of grief and frustration when they get to much harder concepts down the road. Teaching students _how_ to think and not just _what_ to think is far more "efficient" than just telling them, as you apparently would, that 5X3 is the exact same things as 3X5. Had you been given an "efficient" education when you were younger, you'd already understand this. We're trying to help these kids avoid thinking in circles like you're doing when they're your age.

[@TenshinhanIsKing]

Jesse Cole lol

[@Scors4]

Efficiency... Interesting you use that word as America's education system is anything but efficient. Yes, you're right that it "teaches" students how to think, but that's the problem. It TELLS them how to think, not letting them apply their own methods to solve issues. (Being a CSE Major, I have found my own education has crippled my ability to think through solutions.) The education system is so normalized that students who don't learn in a conventional environment are lost, just like I was. I wasn't a good student, not from lack of trying but because the system I attended forced a singe learning method on me that was highly inefficient and extremely stressful for both myself and my father. It's a system that forces everyone into a tiny box and cuts off the bits that won't go in or don't fit, and it's not a good system. It never was, but that's the way it's been and that's reason enough to keep it around in the eyes of politicians and boards of education. I'm also finding as I've grown older that people think kids are stupid, which isn't true. Not in any sense of the word. In fact, they're smarter than most adults but the "old guard" (meaning adults like you and I) actively, and sometimes intentionally, stifle that intelligence. Everywhere I look, I find some mention about how kids need guidelines, rules, and strict enforcement. How students need to adhere to a set of standards and anyone not meeting them is not only lost in the dust, but considered a complete dunce. Like learning a different way or having a different method from "the norm" is somehow a mark of shame or rebellion against a system that is, in honesty, completely broken. Kids aren't stupid, they're just inexperienced. Maybe we should treat them like that instead of labeling them "dunce" until further notice. Back to the immediate matter: 5x3 = 3x5, this is simple math equivalency. I ask you this then: is it more efficient to think "Oh, it's 5 groups of three" or "three groups of 5 = five groups of three, so I can do three groups of five and get the same answer." Do remember: This is math, not English. It shouldn't have been marked wrong, despite what "educators" think. If they wanted the student to think of it a different way, then make a note or tell them, but don't mark a right answer wrong because the method wasn't what was expected. In Computer Science there are literally hundreds of ways of doing one action. Some long, some short, all are considered right because they work. Math should be the same way; If you have a method that works, use it. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor by politicians. P.S. Sorry for being wordy, but this is something I'm rather passionate about.

[@annyonny1224]

100th like! Boo-ya! Shacka, lacka lacka boom boom acka-lacka lacka boom Boom boom acka-lacka boom boom It was a night like this forty million years ago I lit a cigarette, picked up a monkey skull to go The sun was spitting fire, the sky was blue as ice I felt a little tired, so I watched Miami Vice And walked the dinosaur, I walked the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody walk the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody walk the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody walk the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody walk the dinosaur I met you in a cave, you were painting buffalo I said I'd be your slave, follow wherever you go That night we split a rattlesnake and danced beneath the stars You fell asleep, I stayed awake and watched the passing cars And walked the dinosaur, I walked the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody walk the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody walk the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody walk the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody walk the dinosaur One night I dreamed of New York You and I roasting blue pork In the Statue of Liberty's torch Elvis landed in a rocket ship Healed a couple of leapers and disappeared But where was his beard? A shadow from the sky much too big to be a bird A screaming crashing noise louder than I've ever heard It looked like two big silver trees that somehow learned to soar Suddenly a summer breeze and a mighty lion's roar I killed the dinosaur, I killed the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody kill the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody kill the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody kill the dinosaur Open the door, get on the floor Everybody kill the dinosaur Repeat chorus 2 one time Boom boom acka-lacka lacka boom Boom boom acka-lacka boom boom

[@Rafael_Gomes]

Scors4 Couldn't agree more! But I think that's changing, maybe in the next 20 years or so we'll be changing how children are schooled. The governments won't change it, of course, but the private sector will improve education methods, and then public schools should follow suit.

[@BrianMason3636]

Common core is absurd!!

[@sharonjones346]

You remind me of my grandma. She advocated for me when I was in 4th grade (I'm 25 now), The teacher was taking marks off my tests and homework simply because I wasn't using the formula she wanted me to use, even though the formulas I was using were acceptable, accredited, and still getting me to the correct answer. My grandmother taught me math, so I was doing math the way it was done in 1930's. Still the same answer. Fight for your kids folks!

[@michaeltoso3611]

Video is complaining about TRADITIONAL lesson & grading policy.

[@sophiesnow9394]

I mean , the awnser is the fucking same either way whats the fucking problem

[@dalek1099]

Coggy Sprockets 5x=x+x+x+x+x if x=3 5x3=3+3+3+3+3.If I'm writing a list of items I'd write 2xapple 3xbanana not applex2 bananax3 Sharon Jones Using different methods is very important as it may be easier sometimes to use one method rather than another and one method could demonstrate higher understanding than some easier method. In one of my University courses, we weren't allowed to use one method unless it was specifically stated you could as it made the questions a lot easier.

[@victorfox9623]

dalek1099 when I'm making a parts list. I always list the items first and follow it with x2, x3, etc. It's how we doing it at work and it's the norm in my area. The item is more important than the number and that's also how the computer program displays it on our screen and print outs. My point is that either way is correct. As long as the answer is correct, it doesn't matter how you got it. Unless the teacher is grading them on the student's ability to learn the method. I've had teachers accept wrong answers as long as the method was correct. Never understood how that was acceptable in an engineering college.

[@CaptMono]

That's bullshit.

[@iampeaches1924]

I'll take Home Schooling kids for 3000 Alex

[@edawgisawesome]

And every moron on the internet thinks they have an opinion that's worth sharing I'm no different ; )

[@Wildledroses]

mmzen Probably better they spend time with their stupid parents that care about them and instill good values than at a failing school in the ghetto. My local High School is a essentially a gang war zone, has the worst teachers in the country & the majority of student are weeks behind their contemporaries from Charter schools in the same area

[@iampeaches1924]

The Gooch autocorrect doesn't give a damn about what someone's name is lol

[@DTXBrian]

The only people I know who homeschool do so for ideological reasons. It's almost always that they want to deny their children a proper education with regards to biology and history.

[@Wildledroses]

DTXBrian Yet homeschool students still out preform public school students on SATs. Weird

[@switch8428]

2+2 = 5 Steven Hawking approves.

[@annikaoffermann2830]

NickAtTheCam ATMTC and the Party

[@Ryguypie17]

Radiohead approves as well

[@SquirrelASMR]

Hawking, go home, you caught malware.

[@Lodov]

Rachel disapproves

[@Cydonia2020]

...for sufficient quantities of 2.

[@jorgegaytan3012]

My calculator still gives me 15

[@somethingdespicable772]

Jorge Gaytan Ask Google to show you a picture of 15 apples in groups of 3 and 15 apples in groups of 5 and tell if they look the same. When you add the both up they'll equal 15 but they are not the same.

[@jacobr001]

Something Despicable, you are out of context. It isn't the appearance that matters, it is how many that you have that does.

[@Mr.SteelinKeepIt]

Something Despicable were talking about numbers dipshit not food. When the question involves food then you apply the appropriate logic. Geez.. it's not that fucking hard to understand that this teacher that told the kids they were wrong shouldn't be teaching.

[@flparg2]

Hateful_Jac hmmm this got me thinking about the times l got the right answer but not the procedure. I only have 1st year of medical school and l remember clearly the advice: "listen carefully and only answer what they ask, nothing more nothing less".

[@andhikabayutrimulya5801]

Hateful_Jac this is about common core jac not maths or numbers, the way you solve it is more important than the results, learning maths for the sakes of maths is the dumbest reason to learn it, i obviously learning it for the practical use of it not just because it's a friggin maths, that's why so many people hates maths because they don't even know what use they have in their life

[@PeteZam]

Common core is really dumb. I understand what they are trying to do, which is prepare kids for word problems and such. For example, taking 5 pills three times a day is not the same thing as taking 3 pills five times a day. Problem is, this problem has arbitrary numbers, and this type of logic cannot be applied to arbitrary numbers. If your goal is teaching a kid that depending on the context of the problem, order can be important, assign some meaning to the numbers. Seriously how hard would it be to assign meaning to these numbers. Teaching a kid that 5x3 =/= 3x5 when its nothing but arbitrary numbers is beyond stupid.

[@vivianal1979]

M S That's why I never liked this type of math

[@tp4055]

Allen Cunningham ... what? How is he dumb for pointing out an error in the system.

[@PeteZam]

Ok Allen, that is why I have a degree in applied mathematics, and I work in data science. Yup, I have no analytical thinking skills, no reading skills, no attention span. This is mathematics we are talking about. There are many ways to reach the correct answer. In fact, your entire statement is one giant contradiction. By telling a kid that they were wrong for not being a good little drone that follows directions, even though the method was sound logically is doing the exact opposite of what you claim to support. From now on, this kid will probably always just follow directions and do what is told of them, regardless if they were smart enough to figure out a different way to do a problem. When I was a kid, math teachers used to praise us for "discovering" a different way to approach a problem, and they often encouraged it. This is the kind of environment that promotes critical thinking. Telling kids this is the only way you can do something, and you are wrong if you dont do it the way I told you, squashes critical thinking. As someone that has been around for quite some time, I can tell you that more and more college grads that come into the field possess absolutely no critical thinking skills what so ever. They want to be told exactly what to do, and when they don't know the answer to a problem, their only method of solving it is to Google it. I am not joking either, and if Google does not have the answer for them, they are like a lost puppy. As I said, this type of environment that you are so fond of does the exact opposite of what you claim. I have watched each new batch of college grads come and go, and recently, the lack of critical thinking skills is staggering.

[@kubush]

"Common core is really dumb.." Talk about a lack of critical thinking. This isn't common core. You're calling something dumb that you have no clue about. Very "analytical" of you. Smh.

[@PeteZam]

This is common core math...but ok, it isn't common core.

[@PhonyAwards]

This just reminds me of English and History multiple choice being designed in such a way that A,B,C, and D are correct but C is the "best" answer so C is the only *real* correct answer

[@Jordan-Ramses]

There were so many ambiguous questions. Its not what is the right answer but what answer are they looking for? Or the reading comprehension tests where they'd have you read stories that were mind numbingly stupid and you literally felt dumber after reading them.

[@magnusanderson6681]

Lol this brings to mind a science question in which none, NONE of the answers were correct and I left a detailed description of why each was wrong but she counted it wrong because one of the things that was false was almost true so that makes it the "best" answer.

[@magnusanderson6681]

+Magnus Anderson Then again this is the same teacher who gave us detention for going to the bathroom. And thought it wasnt a big deal that we got detention.

[@dawsonretter6727]

cookieQcity Yeah, I went through this with the Drug and Alcohol Course needed to get a driving permit. All choices were correct, but only one is the best. It is quite stupid.

[@ethanl886]

omg i frickin hate that

[@awesometico]

Thats ridiculous, it strips away the inventiveness and creative aspect of mathematics from a young age, math is meant to have multiple forms, many problems have multiple proofs and ways to solve them and you shouldnt be restrained to one way.

[@BennettRedacted]

That's just school in a nutshell.

[@Crimsonfireball]

Creativity has no place in the school of learning

[@loradreamer12]

I didnt grow up with common core but I had a teacher in middle school who took half points if you didn't write it out exactly how they taught you and I was already struggling with math. I got a 50 because I forgot a step in her method meaning all my answers were right. If you're reading this ms.laird, screw you

[@SwagbitoUchiha]

loradreamer12 I had a similar issue in that I was naturally great at math but kept failing because I had a hard time writing out all the steps, or not as well as they'd want me to. I'd see a problem and just _know_ the answer in my head but noooo, I gotta write it out. Sometimes trying to write it out would result in me fucking up at some point during the process and I would have been better off going with my instinct lol. Man, fuck those teachers. At least I answered it right.

[@ryanlanglois2886]

That's stupid as shit because in College if you manage to get the right answer you always get full marks as long as you show all the work you did.

[@Jiggleworth22]

Because of reflective property, 5*3 = 3*5. The students should not have points reducted for something as trivial as "it's five groups of three, not three groups of five."

[@Adirbal]

Jiggleworth22 also, its really ambiguous to say that 5x3 is "five times three" because it can also be "five multiplied by 3", also it is important to point out that outside of US (idk if in UK its also the X times X thing) 5x3 is said as 5 three times, which makes this whole thing even more stupid.

[@rendomstranger8698]

Adirbal And lets not forget the most important fact. That 5x3=(5)x3. Because x and / apply to the whole, they always modify everything that comes before them, not after.

[@lancerd4934]

Adirbal I'm Australian and I was taught 5x3 would be 5 multiplied by 3, not 5 lots of 3. I think that was wrong though (my primary school teachers sucked at math) because once you get to algebra 5x means 5 lots of x, not 5 mulplied by x. If the notation is consistent then the first number has to always be the multiplier (ie the number of groups).

[@chaotixthefox]

lancer D 5x is no different. 5x meaning 5 x's and 5x as x 5's is the same. Because multiplication is commutative. The reason we take it as 5 x's is because it is an unknown, so we cannot write the other way around since we do not know how much x is.

[@etheldir128]

lancer D both 5 lots of x and 5 multiplied by x are perfectly fine, so it's the same as basic multiplication as you described

[@exploration8259]

This punishes children for applying commutative law, something they will heavily rely on when dealing with more advanced mathematics. This common core only serves to cripple our children's abilities.

[@michaeltoso3611]

Try understanding the issue. This is TRADITIONAL local lesson & grading policy & Common Core is NOT dictating grading or lessons.

[@joliettraveler]

Best answer yet. Correct interpretation.

[@michaeltoso3611]

Are you ignoring the lesson?

[@xauvikkivuax7759]

What happened to memorizing up to 12x12 and using flash cards. After you explain what multiplication is, memorizing is the best and fastest way.

[@MisterMitchMM]

America is being dumbed down. Most nations high school graduates score higher on tests given to our 4 year college graduates.

[@dajhrm]

Most First world nations have literacy rates in the high 90% range, The US has just under 50%, Yet your average American thinks they are smart, No skills, no education, no manufacturing base, a lazy overpaid labor force, 14 trillion in debt owed to the now gold backed Chinese, why is no one freaking out about this, It glaringly apparent we are in serious trouble and soon.

[@MisterMitchMM]

Gooseworks Labs I could not agree more with your assessment. Frightening.

[@MisterMitchMM]

Beck Rockriver Sadly the case.

[@socceriscool85]

+Gooseworks Labs the literacy rate in the USA is 85%...

[@dajhrm]

Um no it isn't unless you slant the whole scale and lower the standards internationally, And its definitely almost half what you are claiming. The us literacy rate is nowhere near 85% and even if it was its still more than 10% lower than even Cuba, This is exactly what I was talking about when I said most Americans think they are smart, If you look at independent International statistics and not the ones US uses to try and claim they are literate, you will see that the reading rate is lower than dozens of so called third world countries and pretty much all first world ones, And that's just education, there's still Lifespan, infant mortality rate, quality of life, all basically the same situation as the Education system in America. Did you know America has more people imprisoned than china does, yet china has a population 5 times ours and is supposed to be a draconian state, the sooner the American public wake up and realize they are losing, the better off they will be, it already seems too late though, It will literally take 35+ years to turn it around considering we would need to lower all wages , invest in skilled workers (not fast food ones) and rebuild the manufacturing base, otherwise its just bad news for us socially and economically for the next few decades at least even if we changed everything today, we still will have generations of people who will be nothing more than a slave class to the wealthy.

[@syrales5539]

murrica again, failing to realize that 5 times 3 and 3 times 5 are exactly the same. in algebra, a kids subject, its a common rule that you can switch factors, which is often necessary to solve problems.

[@colegilliam2379]

Syrales algebra isn't a bloody kids subject! Its fucking difficult as all hell

[@syrales5539]

i think i had it in school when i was 14. for me youre a kid if youre in your teenies.

[@maxhill4370]

this isn't a algrebra the teacher probably forgot the commutative property of multiplication

[@syrales5539]

algebra is about abstractions, to show mathematical rules, which of course apply in general. fe pythagoras: you dont measure up 5 triangles to show the common relations, you do it with abstract algebra symbols once, and with that abstract formula you can get all concrete relations. my point just was that those mathematical rules are refuting the claim that 5times3 and 3times5 are different.

[@lolcat1382]

Syrales 14? I was 12.

[@cdmichaelb]

They're teaching them to follow instructions. Not to perform math.

[@michaeltoso3611]

Youngsters are taught math that way. This is "repeated addition" a home school method.

[@MrYogurtGuy]

+Michael Torso But why is it graded so strictly? What exactly is wrong with the given answer? If the student thinks, when seeing 5×3, "The number 5, three times" then this is a perfectly valid solution.

[@michaeltoso3611]

MrYogurtGuy Teachers choose lessons, methods and grading. www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/md/multiplication-repeated-addition.php

[@minerfox9416]

im glad i dont have to go through this and im also glad i dont plan to put any kids through this. the way i see it, doesnt matter what "grouping" method its written as i always make the rounder number be the one within the groups. 3x5 and 5x3 will always be 5+5+5 beacuse its far easier to count by 5s than 3s.

[@michaeltoso3611]

Miner Fox this is just one method used. The specific methods are determined by teachers and textbooks. This is also in home schools.

[@christianroy4177]

5 + 5 + 5 makes more sense as well just think about it 5 times 3 is almost 5 three times

[@lynskyrd]

PERFECT explanation; 5 times 3 equals 5 added together three times which is logically pictured as 5 + 5 + 5; common core aka liberal math... sucks.

[@GANTZ100pts]

I'm so glad I graduated way before this system was put into practice.

[@Dingsrud]

Ha! My wife was a teacher for 40 yrs. She used ideas and methods now known as CC for 40 yrs! It all comes down to learning young kids to play, have fun AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Some elements here are from an early stage, they will all learn to add multiply etc in more normal ways, but hopefully with a better understanding. A better understanding than parroting. An understanding of how to solve problems that they never have heard of before. Their understanding and their fantasy.

[@FlashToso]

The SYSTEM of teachers defining lessons & grading AND expecting students to learn & prove mastery of the lesson is TRADITIONAL, NOT PART OF Common Core!

[@FlashToso]

The system described is FUNDAMENTAL LOCAL teaching policies that define lesson & grading where: students learn & prove mastery of lessons! WHY IS THAT SO STRANGE?

[@FlashToso]

The video refers to TRADITIONAL LOCALLY defined lessons & grading that existed for decades BEFORE Common Core. This lady hasn't bothered to fact check before commenting!!

[@mihagamestv9800]

3x5=15=5x3=15

[@echschmidt]

try it with division!

[@kitkatbudder4917]

echschmidt it's because devision is different dumbass

[@kitkatbudder4917]

Five lots of three and three lots of five are the same but how many fives fit into 3 isn't the same as how many threes fit into five because that's how maths works. Holy shit some people

[@tojarin2584]

So is 13 + 2 but it is irrelevant to the original problem and in the case of the test the student also answered with a different problem that has a similar result.

[@ando3087]

Mihagames tv no shit sherlock

[@Omuraspencer]

It's not really education to train children to think in one very specific way. That's really indoctrination. Education is about teaching people to think for themselves and come up with their own solutions to problems.

[@TheWoodlandpixie]

But that IS the heart of education. I haven't been in primary school in 3 decades but we were taught the times tables by rote. We got questions fired at us and if we got them wrong it was a metal ruler over the hands, age 7. School education = indoctrination. I wish it were the way you said

[@anonduckduck]

And what if the teacher left you to hopefully learn your tables? I bet you wouldn't have bothered.

[@BatWing_the_Penguin]

Omuraspencer Our current education system was created during the industrial revolution, so it was likely created to condition us into being mindless obedient slaves to authority. And yet more people think Obama's a lizard than a realistic conspiracy like this smh

[@Phoenixia111777]

One of the biggest hurdles people face in advanced mathematics and physics, and computer science, to be honest, is that they are full of bad habits and lack the ability to think. Indoctrination is great for ensuring people will fill in the right bubbles in a scan sheet government test at school, it is a terrible at generating people that can learn advanced material, material where there is no rote approach you can drill them on.

[@HontasFarmer80]

It's ironic but I understand what they're trying to lead to with that way of teaching multiplication. In 10 to 15 more years we will have a generation of high school students able to talk about heisenberg's uncertainty principle, Or program their computer as routinely as we write a spreadsheet .

[@RR-us1lt]

this is partly why I hated math in school and thought I was bad at it but when I took remote learning in college and the only grades came from in-person tests, I was able to get over a 100% in the class. Working by myself without someone telling me the processes I use are problematic, letting me explore online teachers offering different perspectives, and guiding my own homework by self-reflecting on the aspects I didn't understand changed the game

[@vanhattfield8292]

If you got over 100%, then it seems your math was still off a bit. 😂

[@adrielr5930]

​@@vanhattfield8292what he meant was he got 0 out of 100 correct.

[@z-army481]

This is why the fucking education system is failing.

[@XtreeM_FaiL]

Z-Army I think the system has failed long before, how else anybody could have made things like that.

[@fa11234]

Common core wasn't set up to teach students, it was set up to have low educated and low-skilled future workers.

[@CortezEspartaco2]

fa11234 But who would benefit from an unskilled labor force? There's no motive there.

[@wizardofvols2215]

James Rae Corporations and governments benefit tremendously. Schools are churning out brain-dead worker bees by the millions. Corp. and gov. want nothing to do with critical thinking individuals, they want passive idiots who follow orders.

[@wizardofvols2215]

James Rae Look into the Prussian schooling system.

[@totorocatbus]

Capitalism benefits. Just look at McGraw Hill or Pearson.

[@CortezEspartaco2]

Arron Firestine Ok, but HOW do Democrats benefit? I could say that Democrats are poisoning the water to kill babies, but that's unfounded if it doesn't benefit them. Both parties make money from corporations and corporations make money from the labor force. Stronger labor force = more profits for corporations = more profits for shitty politicians. If anything, both parties should want a stronger labor force because they'll make more.

[@emilypiens2355]

This is the biggest bullshit i've ever heard

[@dogdogdogdogdog1906]

This Guy the fuck does that even mean, how the fuck did you guess his political leanings, I have so many questions.

[@yes1605]

TJ Flynn a troll.

[@yes1605]

Common core is aids and will always be aids. This isn't even how it's taught in my school, but it's so fucking retarded that despite getting the correct answer, the teacher marks it wrong based on the method. Kids shouldn't be programable robots. However the fuck they get 15 should not matter as long as they get it.

[@ladyhm.6748]

well 3x5 = 5x3 3x5 = 5 + 5 + 5 = 15 5x3 = 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 15 therefore 3x5 = 5x3 you are incorrect This Guy, and I'm objectively correct.

[@NailujG]

This Guy Destroyed.