Why is Experimental Film (not) Cinema?

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A dive into the question: is Video Art even Cinema? What about Experimental Films? What is the line that divides Video Art and Film? What are the standards that raise an Experimental Film into Art or Cinema?
Press CC to see a list of the films used.
Kind Regards,
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[@TheCinemaCartography]

[Turn CC on for complete film list] Hi everyone, We would like to thank new and existing Patreon members for making this project possible. It's no secret that KZbin actively demonetizes and at times shadow bans and age restricts our videos. It’s also no secret that we used to take sponsorships to bypass that. Still, as we continue to expand our project into bigger and better avenues, we need the freedom to create more transparency with our audience. And we simply won’t let anyone stop the vital work we are doing here. This is why we decided to no longer take sponsorships from third-party companies. Our aim is to become completely fan-funded. This will make it possible to drastically expand the type of projects we undertake. Your support means a lot to both of us. As a token of appreciation, we are delivering more unique and exclusive material on Patreon regularly on an ALL-INCLUSIVE basis. Right now you can join our Composition Workshop exclusively for members, and check our Film Studies Guide on Films Pre-1930s. We have masterclasses, tutorials, exclusive essays, conversations, deep dives, behind-the-scenes, events, and more planned for the upcoming months. Join us there and help make this happen: www.patreon.com/cinemacartography Yours sincerely, Lewis & Luiza

[@kalpparashar5017]

Hi Cinema cartography you haven't made any video in The Canon category . Last and first one was on film Yi Yi

[@jeanivanjohnson]

it's jonas mekas, please stop calling him "mekash"! "sh" sound in lithuanian would be "š" the "s" in lithuanian sounds the same as it sounds in english

[@THICCTHICCTHICC]

Experimental film is like a completely different world altogether. You can be absolutely obsessed with 'arty' movies and still never come across basically any of these.

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@TedNemeth]

My grandmother was MARY ELLEN BUTE, an experimental filmmaker in NYC back in the 1940’s to late 70s. She attempted to bridge that gap a few times. Once casting Christopher Walken in his very first film.

[@urizen62]

I'm a huge fan of her, especially her oscilloscope works! I really wish she was more recognized in the animation world! This feels like desperately throwing a bottle in the sea, but if by any chance you know where I could see Polka Graph, I would be eternally grateful 😅

[@justin_sanchez_]

Her work is great! You had an awesome grandma.

[@Kevin_Kim13]

I loved Tarantella, you had a spectacular grandmother!

[@arreshubham]

You're filmmaker too?

[@TedNemeth]

@@arreshubham - well…..I’m moving in that direction now. I worked on Wall Street after college, then 2 technology startups, then I worked with developmentally disabled adults then I somehow became a renown leather craftsman. But when I turned 47 years old I randomly decided to pick up a camera. Felt so right! So I created a playful youtube channel and just learning the craft of storytelling and cinematography & editing. Thank you for asking.

[@stephenshakesby3387]

After almost thirty years of providing justifications, context, examples and suggestions for modes of viewing, I can only say that your introduction eclipses all that I have had to offer, and in addition, that of many others. Your work is magnificent and this essay sets a new standard. Bravo The Cinema Cartography! Bravo!

[@theloganpresley]

If someone has recorded pieces of their life, there was art in the collection in the sense the artist created it, but there's also art in the moments of compilation. The voiceover recorded makes it art, etc.

[@chrisaguilera1564]

Every film started as experimentation until something became established and standardized. I think fillm making is still experimenting because there are so many mediums now, we have essentially a movie camera in the palm our hands with 4K UHD, film stock, color grading, etc. All films are subjective but not everything subjective is objective.

[@antoinepetrov]

Yes, and also, cinema is still young. We are far from having explored even a small percentage of what is possible with it and with modern technology

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipvCl5Kjfbd-i68si=ybN-h5rOl37VFN81

[@MSHNKTRL]

at this point, the only differentiation between Art and Content is intent.

[@robert0price]

YOU CANT PROVE I INTENDED ANYTHING

[@MSHNKTRL]

@@robert0price I don't need to.

[@matthewleger5605]

As I Was Moving Ahead Occasionally I Saw Brief Glimpses of Beauty is such a masterpiece. really a triumph in feeling

[@Xylus.]

This is a great video. It's helped me articulate my own thoughts on the "experimental' or "avant-garde". I love experimentation in all forms, but I think it's almost utilitarian in a way, by artists for artists. A way for us to breakdown art, and try to define new possibilities by loosening, or outright rejecting formal constraints. When I'm "experimenting", I see myself as quarrying the rough cut gems of my subconscious. A lot of the experiments are just dirt, but every once in a while, you stumble on a gem of creative genius. But, the highest art is that which takes one, or even many, experimental techniques, and formalizes them with a technical mastery so as such that they become one with the pre-existing vocabulary of the medium. This is applicable across times and mediums; Charlie Parker was experimental, Shakespeare was experimental, Van Gogh was experimental. The highest of heights is achieved when you take these new experimental concepts, and use them as a lens through which to explore many different questions, other than just "what is art" or any other such meta-awareness regarding it's various forms. That meta-awareness is incredibly fascinating for me, but boring and naval gazing to plenty of my friends who don't relate as much to the question, "what is art".

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@mariotrono8723]

"quarrying the rough cut gems of my subconscious" :)

[@cse820]

Your channel is honestly the very best one there is on KZbin. After graduating from film school I have been hungry for this sort of academic lens pointed toward such interesting material. Thank you, and keep doing what you are doing. I’ll be a patron member soon and it’ll be the best monthly expense I’ve ever had. ❤️

[@drewhughes9127]

This channel is now one of the most important to me. I was into film and it was my life til Covid happened and I became depressed and had mental health issues. And I just was drifting and not knowing what I wanted to do in my life. Discovered this channel this month and videos like this have made me want to make films and study film again. Thank you to the Cinema Cartography. I’m tearing up because I’m finally feeling at peace with my passion again.

[@danieltuben]

im so thankful for this channel, and the recent speed the uploads have gained is incredible for the quality we get. THANK YOU!

[@SamuelFaict.Filmmaker]

As an experimental filmmaker and professional myself, this is one of the most important video essays I came across on youtube so far.

[@mudnocchio]

Keep it up; definitely can learn a thing or two from you. 💯

[@SamuelFaict.Filmmaker]

@@mudnocchio Thanks for the sub ;-)

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@kaydgaming]

This video is art. The edits are so meticulously crafted 😟

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@stevejones662]

So happy when I saw another of your videos in my feed!

[@danielbarrero2815]

I’m so thankful for your videos!! You’re the best

[@rasmuskierkegaardhansen9357]

Thank you once again for bringing top quality videos to yt. You are serving an important mission keeping art alive

[@cowmustard7848]

I always want to get more into art but every time I do I start overcontemplating everything. Where does art begin and end for example. Your video's give me a very cool and raw view on art. Like diving into a crazy and scary yet intruiging world. It inspires me to continue my own work. Thank you :)

[@hairyballbastic8943]

anything mankind touches becomes art

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@ArderH]

​@@hairyballbastic8943no

[@OmniaComunis]

wish you guys all the best with the patreon! 🙌

[@gavmonn5901]

I love this channel and would love to support you, but I don't have spare money. Thank you so much for publishing all of this stuff for free.

[@foljs5858]

"Goddard didn't know whether this technique would work" as one of France's most important art critics before becoming a director, he absolutely knew. And he had seen way more experimental films (from Bunuel's early work to far more hardcore experimental stuff)

[@The_Quota_Official]

Your channel is so fantastic and interesting, thank you for the great content.

[@bloomindoom]

love the hell out of this channel. now I wanna make a photo-play.

[@grogan_ppp]

you have the absolute best videos on youtube. do not stop

[@sabojezles]

This is top-shelf High Quality Channel, I will be extremely happy when you guys reach the million subs. Your work is thorough and profound.

[@bballanalytics1552]

your summary of experimental film is incredibly done!!! so much interesting content, unbelievable

[@themovieminor]

A whole video on why I love the Avant-Garde and experimentation in art, wherever you draw the line. I can't say anything else, you've already said it all here. Genuinely one of my favorite video essays I've ever come across.

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipvCl5Kjfbd-i68si=ybN-h5rOl37VFN81

[@AlbertKarhuFilms]

Ive drawn so much inspiration from your videos i cannot thank you enough. 🙏🤝

[@TheCinemaCartography]

Happy to hear that!

[@LagartoEl]

Fascinating - both the images and narrative are exceptionally well done.

[@TheCinemaCartography]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@habadasheryjones]

I think Baraka is my favorite non film film. Its just a collection of gorgeous 70mm shots of the world in the early 90s.

[@robert0price]

Samsara as well!

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@GamerIsASlur]

Congrats on fanfunding, hoping for nothing but the best

[@ramen_noodles96]

The Malcolm Le Grice film at 6:30 film is called Marking Time.

[@zodiarkblack]

best cinema channel

[@lorddulort]

holly molly whats this consistency

[@johnsmith4071]

One big reason is time, when you go into a movie knowing it’s over 1 hour long when you see a still shot put in there of a swing blowing in the wind for more than 1 min your first thought is this better not to be the whole movie. It’s a different experience when seeing that swing blowing in the wind an art exhibition because you have no idea how long that shot will be because they are 2 completely different mediums.

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@flyhighification]

JX Williams is not actually an artist from the '60's - he's a contemporary artist, pretending to be one from that time, using the atmosphere (more than the techniques) employed at the time

[@cheetalfatima7327]

These new types of critical video essays are great, but could you make more videos that revolve around the elements and principles of cinema; I found those really enriching and educational. Thanks!

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@cooldiaper1415]

One of the beat channels on yt

[@rickriffel6246]

6:00 -- Ed Emshwiller? The illustrator and artist? Didn't know he made an experimental video featuring Carol Emshwiller the fiction author.

[@Richard-mj5dp]

Cornell’s films and boxes are dreamscapes.

[@barrymoore4470]

But they're fundamentally material objects. The oneiric quality is an artistic goal and subjective experience of real physical things.

[@syzygy9725]

I really like the closed caption method of showing the film names. Easy to access. Is there a possibility of making a link to the transcript?

[@dimethylhexane]

first thing i'm learning is experimental film is when colours flash. the more people in your audience get seizures the more experimental a film is

[@robert0price]

yeah nauseated over here but glad my videos don't strobe

[@barrymoore4470]

Strobing seems a favored device by many of the key experimental filmmakers of the Sixties, with Ken Jacobs coming immediately to mind.

[@TheSparrahNest]

Sorry to correct you but the pronunciation of Guy Maddin is incorrect. He's not French-Canadian. So it's Guy said like guy, and Maddin said like football Madden.

[@duart4heart]

This is exactly what I was looking for :)

[@clebou88]

What a thorough and interesting vidéo tysm!

[@quirkyjoeAnimated]

Lovely video. I guess in the case of Douglas Gordon's 24-Hour Psycho, he took cinema as material to be transformed into art, stripping it of cinematic function.

[@barrington6151]

best damn film channel on youtube, you use actual theory!!

[@AnimaKino]

Thanks

[@Donkey_Glossolalia]

I love Jarman's Blue (the Garden too) This channel also. Just discovered it; having a bit of a binge. FumS up init! Xxxxxx

[@Sx-xy2zi]

Looking forward to watch this

[@MementoMoriXIII]

"Film is Art, but Film Art is not Film. Cinema is Art, but not all Film is Cinema" That sounds quite philosophical...

[@danielc7919]

All film is cinema, cinema is merely the moving image, those tik toks on your phone are even cinema

[@MementoMoriXIII]

@@danielc7919 I don´t believe so, the majority of them are just dumb kids shaking their ass, if you call that cinema, well, this is screwed already

[@hamboomar5661]

That's not philosophical , that's retarded....this guy has not a fucking idea what he is talking about , bro needs to read some books before making a terrible video like this one...

[@mudnocchio]

Not sure if Analog Horror is considered experimental but my next drop will challenge these covered techniques. Especially with close ups and third person shots.

[@obseque]

Anticipation of the Night from Stan Brakhage is one of the best film I ever seen. Yet, is it a film?

[@barrymoore4470]

Yes, certainly,. It's a strip of celluloid preserving a succession of camera images, which when projected creates the illusion of movement of said images. Such is a film.

[@AvantTom]

Minor correction - la jette was shot on 16 mm film. And the decision was made in editing to choose specific frames to hold rather than play the full motion. So it’s not technically a photo play. There is also one beautiful shot with full motion.

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oInIZ36Na9ZkpsUsi=5WJpTO1bdMHL6P3h

[@tlatsegms]

Amazing⚡⚡

[@dbeckman85]

Who did the trippy ballerina with the tracers. I cant figure out what he said

[@garrywillliams]

Pas De Deax (1968) Dir Norman McLaren. Press CC to see a list of the films, as stated in the description.

[@filipdabrowski5649]

3:35 can somebody give me the name of this song?

[@steelecinema]

Is it possible to list the films shown here?

[@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747]

Film exists between fiction and reality.

[@robert0price]

nice!

[@funnyadventuresok]

Well 23 Skidoo!

[@liammcdonnell1602]

Does anyone know where the thumbnail is from? thanks

[@experi-mentalproductions5358]

David Lynch's 'The Alphabet' (1968).

[@liammcdonnell1602]

thank you so much!!@@experi-mentalproductions5358

[@jahosaphat]

Avant garde.

[@dialmformowgli]

♡

[@InvalidCookie]

Is this an evangelion reference?

[@j_regalado]

Where my CU film studies ppl at? 😅

[@khalidowaid905]

Why you do not mention in your videos the names of the films so that it will be easier for us to find them

[@TheCinemaCartography]

All the film titles are available if you turn the CC on.

[@AnTran-zs8ny]

It's funny how people expected future to be weird and unpredictable, whereas the past had been more experimental than today's oscar baits.

[@liammcdonnell1602]

where's that thumbnail from??

[@liammcdonnell1602]

pleassse lol

[@THICCTHICCTHICC]

@@liammcdonnell1602 David Lynch, The Alphabet

[@ixchelheld-villasenor2225]

The Alphabet (1969) by David Lynch

[@seanramsdell4117]

I'll miss the MUBI sponsorship

[@seanramsdell4117]

5:19 Begone Dull Care

[@TymurMelnyk]

B (newgrounds)

[@Sams.Videos]

What happened to the title "Films that are (not) films" ?

[@Danipanini.]

i understand experimental film as for the desire to create everything, to know everything, to do everything, you have to abandon yourself to the nothingness of meaning, to see where that is forbidden. you have to display the nonsense, repeat it, until it offers its absurd. Experimentation comes from the desire to create the uncreated, the uncreable, to be the one who lays bare the fragmentation of what surrounds him. The creation of the impossible is a libidinal economy, an absolute desire to assassinate meaning and to offer the witness a new ether, a monad born from the death of human illusionism. All that is asked of the witness is not to indulge in this desire that itchs him, to do for this Art Nouveau an exegesis that leads to an unfailing adulteration. Why give meaning to what, after the divine efforts of the artist, was devoid of it, why must the human always defile the pure whiteness, the divine by an attempt, capitalist as it is, to have it , to establish it under the low constructions, made of stupor and mire, which are its own. (what could be more ugly than the church, when the faith is in the mark of the flesh, an ultimate beauty which voluntarily locks itself there).

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipvCl5Kjfbd-i68si=ybN-h5rOl37VFN81

[@schaylice]

15 min in a started to ask "this mf will talk about Maya Deren or not?"

[@KALaityTheProf]

Or any women…oh, finally.

[@mikepostalakis]

is that how you pronounce 'Guy Maddin'?

[@barrymoore4470]

I've previously only ever heard it pronounced as if rhymed with "my". I have a friend who's had some communication with Maddin, and she's always pronounced it that way.

[@GrorfnOnTheLoose550]

Why doesn't the algorythm show me more of this?

[@tuativenatined]

I seem to be a rebel without a clue.

[@tom-vj9lz]

is Flom Slato (www.youtube.com/@FlomSlato) experimental ?

[@user-qk3sc8rq9r]

The purpose of art ISN'T to tell stories. It's for the artist to express themselves. Books tell stories, none of the experimental films told stories. You miss the point.

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipvCl5Kjfbd-i68si=ybN-h5rOl37VFN81

[@jonathanramsey1269]

You would have to be media illiterate to think that none of the experimental films told stories

[@FrictionalGamer]

It's the only true cinema.

[@uzeoo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipvCl5Kjfbd-i68si=ybN-h5rOl37VFN81

[@robmann400]

... comment.

[@danielc7919]

I've literally never heard anyone say experimental film (aka experimental CINEMA) is not cinema. So dumb

[@paulhughes8907]

Is pornography a form of avant garde cinema?

[@robert0price]

i have experimented in cinema

[@gorgon__soup]

Watched it on mute

[@jonathanramsey1269]

You may as well just watch the films in the video then. You can see some great stuff on youtube. I recommend maya Derren.

[@boRalto]

I don't think that parenthesis is really necessary or this would just sound like "100 films that are films"

[@CorbCorbin]

I think that’s the point.

[@THICCTHICCTHICC]

....They are films

[@abdullalhazred3365]

Bring on AI

[@marxxthespot]

Wonderful 👏👀 Another 🎯My only critique of the flawless critique: “Failed”? “Sadly”? According to the profit Andy Warhol “Either we’re all beautiful or none of us are.” That has never been more true than at this very moment. EVERYTHING IS IN PLAY! But where does that leave 🫵YOU?… our greatest champion of film scholarship and criticism… maybe even the only one lest standing ✊❤️‍🩹🤝❤️‍🩹 As long as there exists the magnificent Cinema Cartography I will agree to suspend disbelief and believe in good and bad art. If, for no other reason, because Artificial Intelligence optimization and alignment with our individual tastes, combined with the lighting fast speed at which AI video is catching up with AI still images, NOTHING WILL BE IN PLAY any day now and 🫵YOU will be our only guidepost out of the hall of mirrors🤞

[@robert0price]

I think that slowing down most of these movies would make them a pleasure to watch, and remixing their content is the future's business it seems. I really like the warhols because the fcking mta screens are offensively used for bad short films.