Why is Hawkman so confusing?

[@therussiancomicbookgeek]

…holy shit guys and gals…someone actually did it…Some actually created a video explaining Hawkman’s origin story that actually makes some kinda sense 🥹

[@dannytarver4533]

He's actually my favorite DC character, tied with Captain Atom. Geoff Johns did it the best I think, in Hawkman vol.4. By the way, love your videos man

[@therussiancomicbookgeek]

@ facts

[@etherealdragon207]

Idiot editors being Idiots and ruining things, what a shock. This was so needless, like changing Powergirl's backstory.

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Ikr?! 👊👊✊✊👏👏👌👌

[@UnexpectedWonder]

​@@dannytarver4533 Wow!!! That's rare to see someone with Hawkman as their Favorite over everyone. I'm a Fan of Hawkman myself, Captain Atom, and others.

[@carlttoon]

Donna Troy: Confusing you say? Hold my beer. :)

[@22espec]

Power Girl: What sm I? Chop liver?.... i am really asking WHAT AM I????

[@James-ev6dk]

Omg right?! 😂😂😂💀💀💀💀

[@hyperion3145]

Donna Troy both exists and doesn't exist at the same time

[@SuperladCK94]

​@@hyperion3145 well I do wonder about that.

[@UnexpectedWonder]

LOL!!! 😁😁😂😂🤣🤣

[@Ещёживойгек]

The current retcon is insane, I think at this point it's just a game of one upping previous story.

[@johnpenguinthe3rd13]

It's pretty bad. It''s like one Hawkman writer looks at another Hawkman writer's stuff and is like "Nope, I'm throwing ALL of that out, here is what really happened!!" . Then another writer comes along and trashes everything and the cycle begins again. LOL. The only other character who has it almost as bad (who comes in 2nd place when it comes to tons of retcons) is Marvel's Ghost Rider. I've read almost every Ghost Rider comic and a lot of the writers stomp all over the lore and bring out their own stuff, only for the next writer to stomp all over it. The most infamous example would be one of the writers invalidating the ENTIRE Ivan Velez Jr Ghost Rider run (which had set up TONS of origin stories and back stories for tons of things and properly explained what was going on) by saying it was all a lie. I almost threw the comic across the room when I read that. LMAO.

[@dannytarver4533]

I think Geoff Johns' run was great. I feel like he wrapped everything up in a neat little package. I never understood why they felt the need to mess with his origin after that. The new 52 idea of the Nth metal going in his body and his wings, armor and weapons coming out of him was cool but that was it. I still can't believe they let Rob Liefeld come in and write and even draw some of that. I think vol 4, Johns' version was perfect and would have permanently worked. The art was amazing and he put together a great back story

[@SuperladCK94]

​@@dannytarver4533 Venditti did a Johns update and ended the cycle before JSA restarted it.

[@jhngrg8132]

No, the most recent retcon cleared all the confusion. It did a great job and it's enjoyable

[@SuperladCK94]

@@jhngrg8132 Venditti said that the current cycle was supposed to be the final one and that there would be no further lives after that because it was essentially as only the 1999 one where it was just Carter and Katar being one and the same from Khufu Maat Katar with everything else being "non-existent" (likewise for Shayera/Shiera), but Johns appears to have reversed the "no more reincarnation" it seems...because "Hawkman being weird makes Hawkman attractive"

[@KennAKALeo]

Someday I'll figure out why DC editorial is okay with having 2 or 3 Supermans, 4 or 5 Robins, 3 Flashes, at least 7 Terran Green Lanterns, and even 2 Hawk ladies, but insist on Only One Hawkman. It was so much easier when the reincarnated royalty lived on one Earth, and the space cops lived on the other.

[@Lanterns_light]

Thank you for this review. Fantastic compilation. I consider Geoff Johns run the pinnacle ‘fix’ for this character. I preference the trapped to reincarnate Carter Hall version of hawk man. All the confusion was due to multiple editorial or writing decisions over decades 😅

[@KingNBlack7]

They should’ve did with Hawkman what Marvel did with Wolverine, made his past mysterious until they could come up with a solid backstory. Sometimes we don’t need to know the origin story right away.

[@jdc4483]

If you read Robert Vendetti’s HAWKMAN run from a few years ago he resolves Hawkman’s past in the most simplistic manner, honoring the past, but not bogging down present or future stories.

[@sinmenon4347]

Between Hawkman, Donna Troy and post Crisis on Infinite Earths Supergirl (before the real Kara showed up), I think Hawkman is the easiest to understand.

[@Ubernerd3000]

I never found any of the pre-Crisis stuff in the least bit confusing, and never saw the need for Crisis, in the first place; especially afterwards, when it became increasingly obvious how poorly they’d planned the whole thing out…that said, I think my favorite retcon was he and Hawkgirl as ‘Eternal Champions’, reborn again and again to fight Evil and aid the cause of Justice…plus add to that the character beats that he frequently faced ancient Evils, and that he worked to teach people lessons from past historical events, I think, makes for a solid and interesting character…

[@kkhohoho1]

That's ignoring the reason Crisis was made. Crisis wasn't just about streamlining continuity. DC was hemorrhaging money, so much money that they nearly let Marvel use their characters. They needed something big to shake things up.

[@SuperladCK94]

​@@kkhohoho1 well it was also a 50 years special, but they could have planned it out a lot better and respected history better too.

[@KingNBlack7]

@@kkhohoho1Ahem, Buried Alien…I mean Fast-forward.

[@OnionSavoya]

I think Robert Vendetta cleared up the confusion surrounding Hawkman. It was pretty brilliant.

[@bashengatheblackmanta7003]

I like what dcau did,they merge both origine. In dcau he was a Thanagarian who got stranded in ancient egypt and died there but he kept reincarnated on earth

[@TheComicsConversation]

Yes, that was a relatively clean way of giving us both aspects of the character - I think that episode of JLU was written by Geoff Johns as well, which makes sense in hindsight.

[@bashengatheblackmanta7003]

@@TheComicsConversation nop its was written by dwayne mc duffy

[@dannyorange9023]

I've been writing my own DC continuity imagined as if there was one straightforward contiguous history of superheroes dating back from the JSA and even earlier, specifically without any continuity altering crises or multiversal nonsense. Hawkman was a HUGE trick for me to figure out, but, if I may, I'd like to share what I did. I wrote Hawkman as if he and Shayera were once young adult star-crossed lovers on Thanagar who got betrothed and decided to abscond the planet due to the taboo nature of their relationship putting them in danger. In their flight they were pursued, shot down and crash landed on Earth where they were not only left for dead but, coincidentally, immediately separated by fate as well. Shayera never finds her betrothed in the rubble of the crash and goes on to join the first iteration of the Justice League proper as "Hawkgirl", yet over the years she is plagued by not only the disappearance of Katar, but by a much more bizarre mystery. There is a "Hawkman" that existed in Earth's history and inspired her own codename but who disappeared seemingly as mysteriously as he originally appeared. When Shayera looks into this person she realizes that, at least in appearance, the "Hawkman" of Earth's past seems to literally be her own Thanagarian fiancé Katar! But How?! Enter Kendra Saunders, Lady Blackhawk, member of the vigilante team "Seven Soldiers of Victory" who fought Nazi forces at home during WWII. After gaining some public notoriety Kendra was recruited by Rip Hunter, a man out of time, to join his "Legends of Tomorrow" and became a member of a team of time travelers intent on keeping the multiverse safe by preventing it's greatest threats before they can happen. One of the greatest threats to history Rip discovers is the future Thanagarian colonization of Earth facilitated by Katar Hol as "Sky Tyrant" with Shayera by his side as his "Deathbringer". If left to discover and experience Earth together with only one another to relate to, the couple would have reveled in their power over the common human being and Katar would have been emboldened to start a coup instituting superior Thanagarian control over the "chaotic and weak" human race. But the Legends of Tomorrow sent in Lady Blackhawk to nip the situation in the bud. She went in on a mission to kill the young Katar on the day he crashed to Earth and leave the young Shayera to become the hero history showed she could become without him. But on seeing Katar, Kendra, a young lady herself, saw something in him that stayed her hand. She couldn't help recruiting him instead. Rip's team carry memory repressing technology from the far future. Kendra separated the two lovers and purged Katar's memory entirely of Shayera and Thanagar. She told the young alien that he had been in a terrible accident but that if he went with her she could save him and that he would have the chance to be a hero himself. With that, "Sky Tyrant" was defeated and Katar became the newest member of the Legends of Tomorrow. Over his years on the team he spent months at a time on various adventures in various timelines where he assumed the identity of Prince Khufu, the Silent Knight, Nighthawk, etc, always with Kendra, who Rip made responsible for him, at his side taking an assumed identity for herself as well. In what Kendra assured Katar were "modern" times in which they could be of the most help to future timelines, they joined The Atom and the remaining members of the Young All-Stars before the team was forced to disband due to decline in membership helping them reform as the more adult "All-Star Squadron". As partners in the Legends of Tomorrow and assuming the identities of Hawkman and Hawkwoman in the Golden Age of superheroes, the two truly fell in love with one another. But, as with anything built on deception, Kendra's relationship with Katar or "Carter" as she preferred to call him, would eventually come to an end. Via interactions with the team, eventually Katar was exposed to an image of Shayera as Hawkgirl, which re-ignited his repressed memories of her. Upon pursuing the matter he learned of Kendra's ruse and of the existence of a fiancé he had been forced to leave behind in a future timeline he had been told was not his own. Rightfully feeling betrayed and knowing that his time on the team could now no longer continue alongside Kendra, he asked to have his memory purged again and to be brought five years in the future from the day he crashed coinciding with the five physical years he had aged on the team. He was given a new identity by Rip as "Hector Hall" son of Golden Age hero Carter Hall with established credentials as an archeologist, lots of "his father's" Thanagarian artifacts, and an unfortunate case of amnesia. If and when they do find one another again, Katar and Shayera can never simply pick things up where they left off because it puts them in a situation where even a half a decade of separation created worlds of difference. It'd leave much to be discovered and uncovered about Hawkman's "missing" years, for both Shayera and for himself as his memories gradually return. Plus, there's inherent drama between them because if Shayera learned on her own about Hawkman's time in the Golden Age, she learned about "Hawkwoman" as well. All in all, the time traveler retcon completely eliminates the mystical elements of reincarnation from "Hawk lore" while maintaining all of the history of Hawkman's "past lives", including firmly establishing his connection to a modern Thanagar as his "true" origin despite him only having repressed memories of it. I also wanted to make sense of the two female Hawk characters who have both been love interests of Hawkman. Shayera, the Thanagarian girl he is kind of fated to be with despite being ripped away from by time and circumstances, and Kendra, the Earth woman who kind of stole his heart against his will, both of which could be argued are his "true love" yet neither of which he can truly be with. Keeps him a bit tragic and jaded and that's kind of how I like my Hawkman. Only now it's very literally just one guy with one fairly straightforward history, no reincarnations and no multiversal shenanigans. Thanks for reading. What do you think?

[@joshuataylor7443]

Cool idea you should write in DC maybe even in charge of the company, how would you do the Legion of Superheroes?

[@TheComicsConversation]

That's a great concept! I like how you interweave so many different versions of the characters (DCAU, WBverse etc) into a whole. A good use of Kendra too, she tends to get the shaft in Hawkman stuff lately.

[@crhu319]

​@@joshuataylor7443the 30th century Legion babes are all descendants of one intrepid space seeder across many planets in the 23td century ..James T Kirk.

[@GoldenProxyy]

I loved Robert Vendetti’s run on Hawkman! I hope Jeff Lemire handled him well in the new JSA series. Excellent video.

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

DC just can't leave their continuity alone.

[@SuprousOxide]

When you mention the guy who alien Hawkman chased to Earth, i keep hearing Biff, and then thinking of him rapping on Hawkman's head "McFly!"

[@kbar4462]

Another great topic and video. Love Hawkman a lot. Poor guy is maybe the only character with more confusing history than the Legion of Superheroes. As beneficial as CoIE was for some of the bigger retcons, it was so ruinous for so many others lol. I did like the Venditi run, though. Thought it placed the character in a pretty understandable place considering all the nonsense that came before

[@meatbyproducts]

I had forgotten how messed up poor hawkman was

[@neilgodwin6531]

I was fine with Earth-1 and Earth-2 Hawkmen, perhaps with distinguishing features, Earth-2 wearing the yellow cowl, or the chest emblem/ buckle being different....but no, they have to meddle and obfuscate and confuse....

[@CoyotesOwn]

Donna Troy: "Hold my beer".

[@niccoloproia3678]

I guess that the real start of this problem was Hawkman's reintroduction in the Silver Age. If i'm not mistaken he was one of the only 4 characters that got reintroduced during the Silver Age (the others being Flash, Green Lantern and the Atom) but he's the only one that has so many similarities with his counterpart. I guess the best approach would have been to do some bigger changes to the Golden Age design than just removing the wings on the helmet and maybe giving him more advanced weapons instead of a medieval mace. I mean come on he's a HAWKman, he's supposed to have excellent eyesight, it's really that far-fetched to give him a sniper rifle or something like that? P.S. i think the only 2 characters in DC that could rival Hawkman for the most confusing comic book history are Brainiac and Doctor Alchemy/Mr.Element/Alchemist. Seriously you deserve a statue if you can explain their stories without summarizing with "it was a mess, then Geoff Johns came to the rescue"

[@carlttoon]

Donna Troy

[@niccoloproia3678]

@carlttoon damn you're right

[@KennAKALeo]

There were four specific changes that Joe Kubert made to the appearance from the golden age Hawkman into silver age Hawkman. One, he removed the "feathered ears". Sadly, those were returned by Katar's fourth appearance. Two, he added the hawk-head sigil to the medallion that sits where the chest strap cross. Three, he replaced the striped knee-high boots with red ankle boots; these were replaced when Katar joined the Justice League (probably due to artist error.) Four, Katar's leggings were originally black-with-green-highlights, where Carter's were bright green; this change went away much the same way that the black parts of Hal Jordan's uniform turned purple-grey, or Spider-man's costume went from red and blue-black to just red and blue.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

​@@niccoloproia3678 Batman was always a tech genius.

[@user-ManofStyle1]

Thank you for the video. Very informative.

[@allenwhiteside7838]

Whenever DC tries to streamline Universe Hawkman, Donna Troy, the Legion, Doom Patrol all get the shaft. In Recent memory the Titans are gaining steam to be added to list. Need to do one of these on Captain Atom from intro into DC to now. Thats a character believe is beyond repair since New 52 launched and DC has no clue how to approach

[@SuperladCK94]

Phil Jiminez did a decent job of cleaning of Donna and later so did the Finches with the Nu52 stuff....one time where the Nu52 was actually helpful as was the Rebirth continuation of the idea when Wally returned. I liked the Finch idea of Donna Troy in the final years. Donna being the Amazon edition of Conner Kent several years before Conner Kent and having implanted memories of past origins via the Timmverse version of Longshadow makes the most sense as the only real consistent thing about Donna's origin is that Diana rescues her from a fire. On the other hand does Lex get Prime Delivery service since the 1960's and did he gift Cheetah with Donna as a test subject that early?

[@alcosmic]

"Why is Hawkman" would have been sufficient

[@sullyb23511]

Because he's awesome?

[@ster9k]

I grew up in the era of Hawkworld and collected until New52. DC’s shortsightedness when rebooting has done so much damage to so much history. Hawkman is just the Avatar of Continuity Errors. I’m a fan of both versions of Hawkman (Earth origin and Thanagarian). They can exist and coexist. But someone has to be responsible to keep it straight.

[@NickCanDigIt]

Just found this channel and based on this video I'm really looking forward to catching up with the rest! Thanks for the explainer (and all the research and production time to bring this about). Cheers!

[@Unquestionable]

Unlocked some deep forgotten memories with the quick rundown of Hawkworld. When I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s there was a local corner store which had a rack of comics that were perpetually 2-3 years behind the times and they would sell them for a quarter a piece. Being a 6 year old obsessed with comics and reading as a whole I had two or three random issues of that I must have read and reread dozens of times trying to understand the part 1 and part 3, the only ones they had.

[@mumbo_fuze2484]

Honestly, I like the space cop story way more. Maybe it's because JL cartoons was my first exposure to the character but the whole reincarnated lovers felt...kinda weird and creepy. I get why people would like it but it just rubs me the wrong way.

[@SuperladCK94]

And on the cartoon, Hawkgirl calls Hawkman a wacko for even implying it...Dwayne MacDuffie also confirmed on his website shortly after the episode which ended on a "maybe" that he knew which was the correct answer to give...Shayera's right.

[@Mercury-Wells]

James Robinson's run on Star Man was iconic

[@freddiemartin699]

I understood it and the multiple earths. It was the writers who were too lazy to do their homework properly that lead to Crisis on Infinite Earths and all the confusion afterward! This screwed up Hawkman, Hawk Woman, Power Girl, Huntress, Superboy. Donna Troy and a few other characters. At the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths, the multiverses should have continued or at least have 2 earths instead of one!

[@Migelsankhezzzzz]

This was a Herculean effort. I like the cut of your jibb sir.A tip of my hat.

[@PragmaticGolem]

I do not find confusing all the retcons to hawkman but DC would been saved a lot of trouble if the hawkworld ongoing started with caption "ten years ago"

[@rustyshackleford8882]

Love, love, love that hawkworld mini. And the first part of the hawkworld ongoing, before things go off the rails. Great stuff

[@deonsmith227]

Honestly, it seems like a good chunk of Hawkman’s confusing story after CoIE is just John Ostrander doing his own thing on Hawkman yet DC wanting to use the Hawk-characters in other books without telling him how they’ll use them or consulting him about it before they do 😂

[@3s7acad0]

I explained the whole Hawkman thing to my friends years ago, and to this day we still catch ourselves making jokes about Hawk-god occasionally

[@KahlessTheUnforgettable]

So very well done! Looking forward to more! Subbed! 🦅

[@kdj3000]

I, too, think there is room for both. Can't say I like one better than the other, as they both resonate for different reasons.

[@joshuataylor7443]

Which version of Hawkman do you like more and why?

[@TheComicsConversation]

I'm more of a Carter Hall man myself. I think that's down to him being my introduction to the character, and how he really stands out in a crowd of heroes, not being cut from quite the same 'heroic' cloth. There's a wealth of story possibilities with him too thanks to the reincarnation angle, the 2002 Hawkman series did some nice touches of having him pick up relics from his past and reminiscing.

[@joshuataylor7443]

@TheComicsConversation Good I love you video comics conversation, I like both versions of Hawkman

[@RobertoFabiani-nh9sl]

Great blog Robbie! Very interesting,informative and intelligent commentary backed by great graphics!

[@SamanthaRyan_20XX]

Thank you for this video, I love Hawkman. I got into him at his most confusing when they merged all the Hawks together during Zero Hour.

[@robsenzig5720]

I had thought that the retelling of Power Girl as well as the storylines of the Young All Stars and Infinity was somewhat confusing.

[@Awestefeld6612]

In a crossover Adam Strange mistook Birdman for Hawkman.

[@mangahead333]

Really enjoy this. I think I am similar in that the idea of two Hawkmans isn't confusing, but I read a lot of pre-crisis DC for fun. I get the desire to clean up the continuity, especially as Hawkworld adds further confusion, despite also giving answers to those confusions. I think the most recent Hawkman series is an elegant way of cleaning everything up. Hopefully there won't have to be a further addition to this video with further retcons.

[@r0kus]

I never thought that having separate Earth 1 and Earth 2 Hawkmen to be confusing. For whatever reasons, writers wanted to over-explain it. That was the confusing part.

[@nctpti2073]

DU keeps messing things up even further just because they cannot keep their own continuities straight. Hawkman is one of the bigger messes but not sure worse than Power Girl/Super Girl or Donna Troy, but is definitely right up there!

[@gozzywozzy485]

the thing that upsets me the most is how we can easily have 6 kazzilion Robins and Birgirls with similar power sets and costumes etc all coexisting at the same time without issue - but for some reason people's brains explode trying to grasp the existance of a HawkGIRL and a HawkWOMAN at the same time. Instead we get convoluted twisted backstories and endless retconns trying to merge Kendra and Shayera into a singular being. Ridiculous.

[@dennisbalch2217]

I just ignore the details that have been manufactured. There was carter hall and then there Was katar hol. Fel andor was simply an imposter. I ignore most of the new origins. Unless it makes some sense.

[@ViktorKruger99]

no gimmicks, no memes no unnecessary information, just to the point in this (complicated) topic good job man also hawkgirl best DC girl

[@williammcguire130]

The Hawkworld incarnation is one of the greatest DC characters of all time.

[@NickMichalak]

Even in other media, it was never a steadfast choice of which origin to use. In the Justice League animated series, he’s Thanagarian, but in Smallville and the Arrowverse, he’s the reincarnation of an Egyptian Prince. In Black Adam, it’s never given anytime to detail his history.

[@ashleybanks-wm4cg]

Thanks for making this bro

[@Lazrael32]

Honestly you hit the nail on the head. while i prefer Katar, i don't know why writers seem to think we can only have one or the other. though not as convoluted green arrow and his son have the same problem. And Donna Troy being the only one who may be more confusing than hawkman. without them banning her for some reason.

[@DanielRuiz-oq9cy]

So sad Roy Thomas is gone. Whatever and the who of Alter Ego should weigh in on your lecture. I purchased a grab-bag of Hawkworld for a quarter each, and the latter Showcase of Hawkman. You have revived my joy in reading comics, after years of awful reboots! Subscribing

[@qq-hk3so]

Personally I prefer the reincarnation origin to space cop as I think it's more unique (if you want to do space cop antics use gl and if you want to tell a story about an aliens view of earth and learning to love and fight for his foster planet use martian man hunter,he especially deserves more love). Plus to me it has alot more unique depth compared to other sups with its star cross lovers,tales of atonement and historian out of time aspect. I also think having hawkman fit into the fantasy side of the dcu works better then him fitting into the sifi side which is already fairly crowded. Although I definetly think that the thanagar espect of the hawks story can be sloted into that fairly easily.

[@rascal7855]

I find the Kendra Sanders and Shayare hol situation confusing more then anything

[@johnburnside7828]

I always thought it interesting that Hawkman's various names were close to Carterhaugh, the enchanted forest in the Scottish ballad of Tam Lin.

[@garywilson177]

14:02 "...he succeeds in atoning for his bloody past." Given the convoluted history of the character, that sentence could be interpreted in a couple of ways.

[@Salvo-3172]

This is why continuity is so important

[@edwardsanko6396]

Superb video on a complicated subject. I think confusion was caused by individuals not oaying attention and then theirs and others fixes just made it worse. Being a spiritualist I approved of the last attempt to fix everything. It works. I don't want anymore reboots. I just want to read new adventurous Hawkman stories.

[@tonyjackson4078]

The amazing thing is even in the JLA/JLU cartoon they went and made his origin all wonky too. Its like they cant help themselves.

[@christopherulichney]

Now do a Donna Troy video.

[@TheComicsConversation]

I've received enough comments to this effect that I think I'll have to!

[@Purchaser.]

Tim Trumans hawkworld was great.

[@dannyburleigh1]

I used to love to read HAWKMAN comics!

[@johnpglackin345]

It started with the reboot of the silver age Hawkman back in the late 1980's. They introduced this Hawkman in present time which removed him from the stories from the 60's to the mid 80's.

[@vivienclogger]

I have no interest in DC, but I found that I listened to the end. Subscribed.😁👍

[@Rechargerator]

The most workable part of Hawkman revolves around the ambiguous "Nth" metal technology. As much as I loved Joe Kubert's take on the Hawk, Anti-gravity alone is not a good enough gimmick for a pulp hero. The New 52 version was probably the best attempt so far that tweaked the Rogue's gallery also.

[@sird2333]

Movie Hawkman isn’t really Hawkman. Hawkman, like Nick Fury, is White!!!

[@mercuryman1250]

Pre-crisis Earth-One Katar Hol and his Savage Hawkman is better than Carter. I do love that carter was ruthless at times. Hawkman isn't confusing you have to start with Pre-crisis Earth-One and Earth-Two. But Post Flashpoint Earth 3 Hawkwing and Sky tyrant is another thing

[@UnexpectedWonder]

I'm a Hawkman Fan. I like the Origin of both. I can understand how it would be confusing for the average reader. I didn't even know this many changes throughout the timeline though.

[@lucywillis4174]

I don't know why the golden age hawkman could have just joined the thanagarian police force in the 50's....

[@ChrisWell]

I think at one point you hit on my preference: Just tell a "Hawkman" story where he hits the bad guy with the mace. They should stop being so confusing. (But then this is just a symptom of the other thing you mentioned, where DC keeps hitting that restart button without following through on whatever is the new continuity.)

[@richardmark9161]

I thought I read somewhere that Hawkman also had some ancient Egyptian backstory.

[@peacejoy1396]

So is he an alien or a reincarnated god?

[@TheComicsConversation]

All of the above! I think the easiest way to understand him now is he's a dude who is the reincarnation of an alien who's lived several thousands other lives, including a brief stint as a birdgod thingy (but that can be glossed over).

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

​@@TheComicsConversation I still don't understand the wings. Are they real or fake?

[@spaceknight793]

@@JohnSmith-yd5wqnot real.

[@jlshel42]

Then there’s Golden Eagle, his sometimes sidekick/Titans member

[@nickelliott1174]

Hawkworld was a disaster of epic proportions for fans of Hawkman and Hawkgirl.

[@Red-Devil884]

He is not confusing anymore ever since his last volume.

[@SamanthaRyan_20XX]

The new status quo is pretty cool.

[@blafiman]

I’d give him that space origin and put him on the JSA

[@RshadowA]

1:07 Did anyone else notice the weird-ass drawing of Hawkman here. His butt looks like a pair of knees coming out of his back, lol.

[@VOLKHVORONOVICH]

I'm old enough to remember the Thanagarian Hawkman. Art by Joe Kubert and then by Murphy Anderson. Loved Truman's Hawkworld as well. Wasn't old enough to have been around when the original Hawkman appeared. Did see his appearance when the Earth Two and Earth One heroes met. Noticed the difference in their helmets. Thought the Earth Two Hawkman was cool. Not so much when I saw the original character. I mean, come on. Fury wings? Terrible art. I mean, I know they were just starting then and weren't giving too much thought to any kind of continuity. They certainly didn't regard what they were creating as timeless, immortal literature. Just disposable entertainment. My problem with DC is that they're trying to salvage everything. Thanagar Hawkman is a greater concept, but they can't just jettison Golden Age Hawkman! If I remember correctly, three out of the four Golden Age characters DC decided to reboot first appeared in Showcase before getting their own series. The Atom, the Flash, Green Lantern all got new costumes as well as new civilian names. Ray Palmer instead of Al Pratt, Barry Allen instead of Jay Garrick, Hal Jordan instead of Alan Scott. But Hawkman appeared in The Brave And The Bold. Same costume and same name, Katar Hol was only an attempt to make his name more alien sounding. It was Americanized to Carter Hall, in any case. And I quite like Hawk World, as I said. It was a step in the right direction, updating the character and making him more sophisticated. As far as I'm concerned they could just have ditched the Egyptian. But no, like a parent saving every single scrap of their child's crappy artwork, they don't know when to let things go. If you're kid's trying out for art school, you don't suggest they take the drawings they did when they were five and put them in their portfolio. I enjoyed the appearance of the Justice Society when they first met the Justice League. There was something thrilling there. But I was really disappointed when I saw the original, 1940s stuff. I mean, really! Furry wings?

[@SuperladCK94]

They're not furry. They're feathery. Also while I do like the space policeman idea...you risk turning Carter/Katar into a Hal-clone in a Bird-suit....not to mention that he was already being treated as a Batman-clone on the force during the silver age. I mean it could work, but he really needs a different outlook that's neither Bruce nor Hal knockoffs. Lean more into other connections he has. Start by making him Native American...this way both the JSA and the JLA have an indigenous hero on their team and it gives the JSA another edge over the JLA...the first superhero team of the JSA was lead by an Indigenous American alongside a Greecian Princess (Diana), a secretly gay man (Alan Scott) and a generally nice guy (Jay Garrick) further emphasizing how much "forward"-thinking the JSA was over the JLA. Then maybe if you want to do myth connections instead of Egyptian...try Indigenous American stories and treat Hawkwoman as if she's a Cinderella since the Indigenous have their version of the story.

[@unclejames6365]

I've always liked Carter Hall Hawkman. Hawkman was super cool when I was a kid and had his Super Powers toy. I knew zero about the character but he was huge and buff, and had a mace with wings. Don't overcomplicate it! Never cared for space cop Hawkman stories, but the archeologist version has always been cool. Too bad they got into reincarnation and junk.

[@dylancrossman8502]

Hawkman remains because he’s a cool visual. But I think the mistakes really start with making the two Hawkman so identical, both in look and even real identities. Subsequent course corrections just made them worse.

[@SuperladCK94]

Well they did wear the grey suits at least once or twice in the silver age, maybe the grey suits? Or better yet use the red and green post-ZH suits they had be introduced way earlier...those fit in with the "modernized yet classic looks" that were given in the 60's...and red and green birds are a good idea.

[@martinportelance138]

DC comics are not made to be a continuity, which was a Marvel feature at the time. That's why their universes constantly reboot after a few years. DC's best stories are at their best as one-shots.

[@kilroywashere513]

I didn’t find all the hawkmen confusing, and by the way this character was inspired by the hawkmen from the Flash Gordon comics, I’ve heard💁🏻‍♂💯.

[@TheComicsConversation]

I've heard something similar! Gardner Fox insists he saw a bird picking up some twigs and thought 'imagine if those twigs were crooks' but the similarities are a little too coincidental.

[@mokwella]

I think things made sense up until the Silver Age. Lol.

[@DarkDekicDuka]

Why are you calling Morisson a they, that's a single dude....

[@sully7675]

Because some people want you to lie and call them by made up pronouns then they pretend it’s out of respect. But yeah, Grant Morrison obviously a dude.

[@Fanimati0n]

Morrison is nonbinary

[@DarkDekicDuka]

@@Fanimati0n That's a dude.

[@FerdinandCesarano]

Hawkman has had more reincarnations than Agrajag.

[@davidkirby9234]

Thanks for doing this. Of all the characters DC brought back near the beginning of the Silver Age, Hawkman (and Hawkgirl) and the Atom were my favorites. Unfortunately, no DC characters have suffered through worse subsequent storylines. I liked Tim Truman, but I gave up on standalone Hawkman stories after his Hawkworld series. To my mind, that series destroyed the character. I haven't been interested in following him since then.

[@KennAKALeo]

In all fairness, Tim Truman's "Hawkworld" limited series as a prequel to "Brave & the Bold" #34 would have been fine. It was DC editorial deciding that Ostrander's "Hawkworld" had to be set in the present was what really messed things up.

[@kurumais]

nope seemed clear to me 2 flashes 2 atoms 2 hawkmen

[@krisscanlon4051]

Yeah Thanagar Egypt idk man...i always thought he had super strength

[@macsnafu]

The worst thing DC ever did was trying to "clean up" continuity from an editorial standpoint instead of from the writer's perspectives. And they've repeated this mistake several times now. Hawkman is a mess, but unlike some of the others, he's a *glorious* mess! Let the writers work it out instead of commanding from editors-on-high. It's a great source for new stories!

[@frogmouth2]

I’m a fan of asshole hawkman. He’s lived and died many times so him being a hard ass or having non-modernized values makes sense. Having people who are douchebags but still get the job done and aren’t morally compromised adds realism too.

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

I'm still confused about the wings.

[@douglasphillips5870]

And I thought Powergirl had a convoluted backstory

[@stevensica5918]

Will there ever be a Chickenhawkman?

[@TheACcam]

... Doesn't the Central Battery of the Star Saphires contain the crystalized skeletons of the "original" incarnations of the Hawks, Khufu and Chay-Ara? Whats up with that?

[@johnnyplunkett8532]

Combining the two versions was a mistake. Over complicating a back story weakens the brand. I never got why a space policeman would use ancient weaponry. Its like having Stsr Trek guys carry swords instead of phasers. The old JSA version seems more popular in the movies and TV shows. With a few high tech touches.. i loved the Smallville version the best but the Black Adam one was good also. That movie would have made money except for paying The Rock so much..

[@DWNicolo]

Everyone gets the Hawkman they want and need.

[@DanielRuiz-oq9cy]

THANK YOU !

[@dytakeda]

Why does he have wings on his head and his back? Hawks don't have wings on their heads.

[@mendonburns-gilbert1642]

I don't get this fixation with screwing around with Hawkman in general. Just because they can? Having one in the JSA and another in the JLA seems pretty straight forward. Just update a little as time passes. Are there people running around worried that Clark Kent existed before World War II? No not really. Now I would like to see something on both Donna Troy and Power Girl. Talk about convulated! Black Canary too. Isn't she originally from Earth 2? Good times.

[@TheComicsConversation]

Donna Troy is definitely coming at some point in the future! Black Canary might get a mention somewhere too - the silver age version has a kindof messed up backstory, what with the whole 'moving to Earth-1 in the body of her now-adult daughter so she can shack up with Green Arrow' thing.

[@SuperladCK94]

​@@TheComicsConversation which is why after the Crisis they thankfully retconned that to say that all Earth-1 appearances of Black Canary from Batman & Black Canary's TBATB were stated to always be Dinah Laurel and not her mother as well as making the Aquarius incident a JSA exclusive mission with Laurel getting a ton of JSA uncles when she was little plus a Wildcat surrogate dad.

[@Loreweavver]

Is Marvel's Moon Night having multiple personality disorder an intentional joke about this?

[@Fanimati0n]

No, he just has DID & it's played straight & not as a joke. He's a mentally ill man who's the avatar of a malicious moon god & has religious dysphorious