Why is Mens Fashion Boring? Not Beau Brummell : Next Historically Accurate Cosplay!

[@NicoleRudolph]

Visit birchliving.com/nicolerudolph to get $400 off your mattress, plus two free pillows and you too can feel as comfortable as Bailey looks!

[@alyshal9853]

I remember reading a lady's memoir about growing up in the 1840s and she mentioned all the color people wore. She had a funny bit remembering her brother's first tail coat that was green and he was so upset because the tails were too short to sit on. Seeing black and white images makes it easy to forget how colorful things really were. Loved the video!

[@BattleAxe1345]

A lovely recollection. If I may ask, what was that memoir?

[@gwendalynnwatkins1296]

Please, do tell us the title

[@buttlerface]

What was the memoir called?

[@BattleAxe1345]

@@buttlerface Lol we may never know now😅

[@gloglos100]

Way back the elite and upper class wore colour, luscious colour, and the poor, the serfs wore black or near as. Giving cast off clothing of the wealthy to them was an insult because they were not allowed to wear colour. Moving to Melbourne Aus a couple of decades ago was terrible, they wore black, and black polyester. No hats. I arrived in a bright pink cashmere jacket with gold buttons, wonderful hats including a Akubra and more. They sneered.

[@roxiepoe9586]

I have blamed WWII for the uniformity and repression of men's dress. The universal military hair cut (signaling a manly man, actually used to combat vermin) was a factor, too. However, when my dad got home from WWII, he bought a Zoot Suit and wore it - much to my mother's chagrin.

[@Eloraurora]

This is adorable. It reminds me of all the veterans who grow beards or ponytails after getting out of the military because no one is regulating their hair anymore.

[@stevezytveld6585]

Good for him. I hope you're Granny would get all dolled up to match for a night on the town. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@marlonbryanmunoznunez3179]

Your dad was awesome 😎

[@Anon26535]

I know when you say vermin you're talking about lice and such, but it certainly works as a description of the Axis Powers, too.

[@Udontkno7]

I blame the civil war

[@Eloraurora]

I'd heard Beau Brummel credited, but also that Queen Victoria's years of mourning pushed black and other dark colors as the most appropriate choice for public officials and other important men who might interact with her.

[@terranempire2]

I think we also have to consider the laundering and pollution of the age. Darker color tend not to show dirt as much. You have regular laundering still being limited to the upper crust. The start of industrialization powered by coal, popularity of smoking. Most cities were filthy with horses being one of the primary means transportation. Streets were virtually open sewers.

[@ShebrewQueen]

@@terranempire2 disgusting 🤮 🤢

[@Eloraurora]

@@ShebrewQueen Yes, but not wrong. Although my favorite variant on that theme is dark wool clothes for early train passengers, both to not show soot and to NOT CATCH FIRE from the flying sparks.

[@terranempire2]

@@Eloraurora I think that also goes for the home. Until the 1950s central heating was rare in most homes. Until the 1920s electricity was to (arguably even after its wasn’t very safe till maybe the 1940s) In the Victorian to Edwardian eras heating and lighting was candles, oil lamps, wood stoves, fireplaces, gas lamps, Coal. The houses and offices were potentially explosive and or Incendiary. So Wool being somewhat fire resistant makes a great deal of sense.

[@Eloraurora]

@@terranempire2 Yes, homes were very vulnerable to fire. I'd been flipping through a 1900ish knitting magazine and been startled to see a pattern for a toddler harness/leash, since a lot of people mock them as a silly modern helicopter-parent thing. But that and the non-rhetorical apron strings make sense in light of a house full of various fires and the likely behavior of a baby who doesn't know any better.

[@99temporal]

"Why is Mens Fashion Boring?" I ask myself the same thing since I was a teen... Women get to wear all those cool clothes, hair styles, accessories and other things while us men get... a jeans and a t-shirt? That's what got me into sewing

[@marikroyals7111]

As a women I love men fashion because I find women's clothing has to much going on and I have simpler tastes and a cooler colour pallet that are hard to find in women's clothing in this time period. Had to go to a dozen shoe stores just to find one pair of women's dress shoes as everything else was heels, had to spend half an hour to find a simple dress shirt and long sleeved simple black jacket in the back corner of the store wedged between countless colour's and patterns, another half hour for simple black dress pant that didn't make my legs feel like sausages. Where's I go to the men's section the hardest thing is finding the right size, found the pants and shirts all within 5 minutes, just have to spent the next 10 minutes to find the size and the pants include functioning pockets (I have child sized hands and women's pockets come up to my second knuckle on my finger if there are any).

[@tea_n_ink]

as a non binary person i love the silhouette and some of the classy elements of men's fashion but love the colors and fabrics and details of women's fashion and love blending them

[@lc4n333]

I think the more precise question is "why men's fashion not as colorful?". Imo most men nowadays don't have confidence to wear many color because strangely colorful means feminine and/or don't understand how color combination work. Before I tried classic menswear I don't have this confidence. I only stick to conservsative men's color like gray, navy, blue, etc. Then I learn about classic menswear, the quality and lifetime investment, and the historical aspect draw me in this rabbit hole. I thrifted suit jackets, tried the fit, found quality material and construction for fraction of the cost. I practiced wearing them, slowly adding new pieces like waistcoats and tie and also try different colors. Before this I don't even dare to wear red because I see it too flashy but now my favorite tie is a red tie but it is not bright red power tie, it has deep rich red and subtle pattern. Imo to gain this confidence men have to educate themselves, have to give a damn about fashion and how to wear it stylishly

[@jadedragon1406]

I just want to wear cool clothes 😫

[@ZerokillerOppel1]

​​​​​​​​@@marikroyals7111As a man that's how I like to shop tbh...in and out in 15 minutes tops...I own 4 or 5 pairs of pants...all jeans or chino-ish...but...I have maybe 30 or more t shirts in all various colours but all with a round neck. I hate v-necks; dozens of hoodies...gues I'm the typical guy in that department. Yeah...come to think of it, my wardrobe is pretty boring I guess😂Order a lot of stuff online too because shopping isn't really my thing. But I've always admired women's clothes and especially the fact with what they can wear and "get away with" while we have to conform to some "invisible" rules just to not stand out otherwise you're considered a weird dude...maybe I should mention I'm straight and that before mentioned "rules" are more of a straight thing?? I don't really know it's just my two cents here. Btw..I love your video's Nicole!! Very interesting!!😘

[@TheSchmuck01]

I have a thought, that the modern suit is no longer really comparable to the suits of previous generations. Even though they are of the same parts, and clearly evolved from older suits, their *function* is different. Back in the day, men wore suits for everything. Work, shopping, going to the pub, visiting a friend, chatting in the town square, always a suit. Idle rich may have changed 6 times a day from breakfast to morning tea to afternoon to dinner to cigars in the lounge but it was always a suit. Working people might have only had one or two, but they still always wore a suit. A suit, for all its formality, was effectively casual wear. Now? A suit is a work uniform, nothing more. A formal dinner suit is some weird fetish we have for dressing up like the 1920s, unrelated to fashion. Modern casual wear, the functional equivalent of those 1800s fashion plates? That's what you get outside of work, when men are with people they give a damn about, people they're trying to impress or seduce. That's where we get butt-hugging flared jeans, floral and paisley open-neck shirts, 90s baggy hiphop style clothes, skintight jeans with designer rips that actually show a bare ankle, big basketball sneakers, rock and/or roll fashions with motorcycle or cowboy boots, sunglasses ranging from aviators to speed-dealers... I contend that although men's suits are boring (because work is boring), men's fashion is not quite as boring as we think.

[@macswanton9622]

You make very good points, but the one you make best, is that men's fashion is non-existent. Fashion is for women.

[@stevezytveld6585]

@@macswanton9622 Not necessarily. Right now I think men's fashion is in a transitional period - that's why there's the old high-school divide between the Preppies and the Rockers and the Cowboys and Hip Hop culture. It's a limited pallet for men to choose from. Partially because a man whose workwear is actual manual labour doesn't necessarily have the closet space for more. Or if he would feel socially out of place in office wear? I think, with gender norms in flux in society and personal definitions of gender expanding, we're about to see a blooming pallet for men to choose from. I think the Suburban Standard of Chinos and a dress shirt is about to undergo a transformation. Up until now, men have been defined by their work. We're still living under the shadow of a 1950's generation Dad. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@costumeink147]

@@stevezytveld6585 correct! And you should say it! 👏👏👏

[@barosz123]

Thank you! What Nicole did not point out is that the Industrial Revolution brought a great democratization of fashion. Working people were always an overwhelming majority of the population and never dressed like Beau Brummel. It's just they are only now being noticed. And of course workwear will be less flashy and more practical.

[@stevezytveld6585]

@@henryhen76543 True enough. I live in a downtown surrounded by people who work white collar and live in the suburbs. So they tend to dominate the transit system. Anyone who works blue collar stands out in the crowd of chinos. The class divide is more noticeable than anyone dabbling in fashion subcultures.

[@nancypatricia511]

"The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" was a novel that came out after WWII. The men who came out of that wartime effort, having donned military attire, exchanged their military uniforms for those of the workplace and their adventures for jobs that brought little satisfaction. In the military, they were part of a great, unified goal. Whereas in the workplace, they felt like undifferentiated cogs with little individual identity or importance. The Gray Flannel Suit was the representation of the plight of the middle-class male.

[@AngieMoon]

I used to think men's fashion was boring until I really started looking at the fashion of the 60s peacocks/dandies (basically what came after the mod subculture) and saw what were the roots of it: the refined Regency fashion and the colour palette of the 1700s Macaronis. That made me fall down a rabbit hole of historical fashion videos and learning about stuff before the 20th century, dispelling a lot of preconceived notions I had. Even broadened my horizons in how I dress and express myself. As always, a well-researched video and very interesting!

[@foxesofautumn]

Haha and the great thing is that the mods were directly influenced by Italian fashion and compared it to the drab post-war British austerity, deciding they had had enough of grey and dark blue and loose suits. The mods, too, were heavily criticised for being vain and impractical though, in their case, they were working class kids who held jobs and saved for music and clothes their own transport so it was never fair criticism.

[@andyisdead]

Swinging London, baby! Oh yeah!

[@gloglos100]

Heidi Slimane produced stunning suits for tall slim, ie not fat, not obese, not fat armpit and bulky men. Karl Lagerfield lost loads of fat so to wear Heidis clothes. His jackets had darts in the back arm scye and in the elbows. His jeans were stunning, gave the best bottom, and very comfortable evidently. Properly designed to function.

[@dimplesd8931]

Men’s fashion in the 70’s was interesting and fun too. I’m Af American and my uncle had a clothing store and it was all bright, polyester prints from wall to wall, rack to rack. All the adults who shopped there looked so cool to me as a child and in the pictures they look like they know they look good. Check out the movie “Superfly” for examples of “cool” fashion. 😊

[@williamsstephens]

@@dimplesd8931 The 70s were my time, and I had friends who wore such clothes. It was a very attractive look, indeed.

[@thelemoncoffee]

my takeaway from the macaroni part was that the lyric "stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni" is that time period's equivalent of saying "he put a spiked choker on and called it punk"

[@Reverend_Salem]

that is a weirdly brilliant way to put it

[@akechijubeimitsuhide]

I wish waistcoats became popular again, especially waistcoats that are patterned or a different colour from the coat/trousers. If we look at Hobbit fashion, which seems more or less early 19th century, or any traditional Onegin production, or Werther's iconic putfit, it's all very pretty and colourful.

[@idrisa7909]

Be the change you want to see in the world! Quite a few people wear waistcoats (including contrasting ones) these days- it is a specialized market, but it exists and is fashionable to certain people

[@spockezri]

please join me in wearing waistcoats, you may have to get them from the women's section though or from antique/vintage shops!

[@akechijubeimitsuhide]

@@spockezri I'm a woman. I have some, but mostly just black/brown. I want some brocade ones :D

[@spockezri]

@@akechijubeimitsuhide oooo sorry! i have a brocade one but i've never seen one again...it's really good though

[@theexchipmunk]

@@idrisa7909 Is acually fahionable to most people. It manages what you can't do with a suit, being sharply and nicely dressed while also looking casual. Its just that its not common fashion in the. mainstream. Its more asociated with academia. And not in the bad way but the "accomplished and probably teaching" kind of way.

[@elizabethclaiborne6461]

There are pushbacks. Zoot suits, Rappers, Teddy boys, Rockers of various stripes. Utility kilts. Versace showed an amazing gorgeous new take on men’s suits a few years ago. The men wearing those suits get very finicky about the details of their boring suits, Tom Wolfe wrote an amazing bit on Saville Row Tailoring in his anthologies.

[@lovesplus3879]

I never thought i would see rappers and teddy boys in the same sentence. Let alone on how they push back against overly simplistic of men’s fashion. So thanks for that.

[@MabruBlack]

I can only imagine what men’s clothes would be if Versace didn’t leave us so soon. He was definitely on the way to bring fun and color back for the gents.

[@Eloraurora]

Also 90s/00s alt/emo boys. I had a classmate who got dress coded for wearing 'one-legged pants' from Hot Topic - aka a maxi skirt adorned with various straps and buckles. It was so strange, because girls normally get dress coded for showing an inch more skin than the rules allow, but he was completely covered. It was entirely based on boy ≠ skirt.

[@annabeinglazy5580]

Also since i Met my Partner i realized that mens Fashion has a whole bunch of tiny Details that i Just never paid attention to. From cuff length to cuff links to a suit's lining and the Style of the collar. I find it a bit weird that it counts as boring when its really Just that i never paid attention to mens fashion until i Had a Partner who has to wear suits on a regular basis

[@stevezytveld6585]

​@@annabeinglazy5580 I agree about men's fashion hides in the details. The tiny little tailoring tricks used regularly by companies like Brooks Brothers makes me a wee bit jealous. Little flourishes that don't have to be part of the construction. My husband has been able to thrift a few shirts from Savile Road over the years and the stitching is absolutely beautiful. - Cathy (&,, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@adrianghandtchi1562]

I hope we grow into a future where’re mens fashion can be just as diverse as womens fashion. I’m seeing elements of it but it’s just not there yet

[@habituscraeftig]

And where women's dressy clothing can be as as high-quality and durable as dressy menswear. (I'm thinking primarily of dress shoes, but there's also all those dresses I've broken by actually using the pockets provided, which were apparently only statements of political solidarity and not intended to carry the weight of a smartphone.)

[@vincentmuyo]

It might also move in the opposite direction - women's fashion ending up as bland as men's fashion.

[@marikroyals7111]

If that become the case then I'll have nothing to wear because as diverse as women's clothing is, if you're a women who's a plane jane it's extremely hard to find things without just buying from the men's section. Had to go to a dozen different shoe stores just to find 1 pair of simple women's black dress shoes, and it was the last store I was going into before I went back to one of the other store and got a men's size 6.

[@SanctusPaulus1962]

​@vincentmuyo It's already heading that way. Most girls my age (early 20's) wear pretty much the same dull athletic wear as the guys do

[@Rozewolf]

I've always thought that war had a real affect on fashion. Uniforms were so important to identify a 'side', and that translated over to mass production so that everything was the same. Soldiers wearing parts of their uniform after a conflict was normal, as clothing was often in short supply. Add to that the acceptance of mass production, and we see what we have now. Uniform jackets evolved into suit coats. Ike jackets became our denim jackets, and BDU pants are now Cargo pants. Thank you for a great journey through men's fashion.

[@AbbyCox]

Does this make me Rizzo, the Rat? I got jellybeans...

[@lucie4185]

You should make a matching Rizzo Outfit! Like the Smock from the opening scene!

[@astra1653]

There's always Camilla!

[@Rowan.Evander]

PLEASE do Rizzo, oh my god

[@therewillbecatswithgwenhwyfar]

Yesssssssssssss.

[@TheGFeather]

Adding my support to calls for a Rizzo to add sarcastic remarks whenever possible. It's the role you were born for!

[@davederrick9431]

COVID has a lot to answer for! I ran out of sewing projects and thought I would reproduce my grandmothers wedding dresses. However after several hundred dollars on books for research (libraries closed), it became a project set aside. However, I then discovered 18th century men's clothes. After purchasing J P Ryan patterns, I have just finished a trial mock of the waist coast (with embroidery). My wife made the breeches and shirt, so the project continues. I do draw the line at trying to manufacture the period correct shoes. PS Love your videos :)

[@ludu1921]

What kind of books did you get? Sewing is so much fun!! :)

[@davederrick9431]

Do you really want to know? The house of Worth, Turn of the Century Patterns & Tailoring, 20th Century Fashion in Detail, 19th Century Fashon in Detail, High Style ( MMA). Just to mention a few - then of course there is the men's collection which I haven't listed. As I an downunder some of these books have to be ordered and imported, hence the expense. If COVID persists I guess I'll start on something for the wife😅

[@stevezytveld6585]

Covid-itus (definition - behaviours for coping with the emotional roller coaster, where your head is at after a year and a half of all of this) has allot to answer for. Yup. Definitely. I am now the fourth known owner of a 1915 hand-crank Singer (and all of the associated feet and do-dads) and ended up drafting my own pattern for a shell dress for the FR competition. This past weekend I passed on the sewing virus to our 19 year old God-nephew with an introductory how to sew a Zafu-style meditation pillow for scraps and a ham for ironing. I'm making my own wardrobe. Bollocks to the stuff in the stores that never really fits me. I want to learn how to sew like my Great-Granny did - Eye of Rock high couture style (otherwise known as basic Victorian construction techniques). As soon as I can get there I'm going to start diving around in 1920's men's wear. So if anybody has any suggestions for 1920's men's pattern books... I'd really appreciate it. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@davederrick9431]

Steve, 'How to Read a Suit' (Lydia Edwards) and 'Pattern Cutting for Menswear (Garath Kershaw) may be of help. Check with your local library before spending money on something which may not be to your liking.

[@stevezytveld6585]

@@davederrick9431 Thank you! I'm lucky enough to live in a town with 4 universities and 2 collages. So our reserve section of the public library is stellar. They have the first 2 volumes of Patterns of Fashion. There's got to be a library somewhere in this town that has at least one of them... Huzzah!

[@nimuenorth6295]

I wonder just how on point the phrase "uniform of the middle classes" might be, considering the changes that occur in and around the military between roughly the Napoleonic wars and WW1. Military uniforms didn't use to be a thing for the longest time, they only returned with the mass logistics of outfitting the immense armies of the modern era and Napoleon was a big factor in that not only in France. Britain had this whole philosophy about not separating an army too much from the general society, which they gave up during that time as well. The professionalisation of military service, more men experiencing military service more continuously (not just in between being needed in the fields), and the inclusion of military might into manly ideals beyond the chivalrous upper classes could all over time contribute to a more uniform appearance as the style to aspire to for men in general. Fashion truly exists and develops in the context of its time.

[@kerstinisaksson7151]

On a Swedish radio program about style and fashion, they had an episode about how men's fashion has followed military "fashion", and that before most soldiers had fire-arms that they could hit people with from a long distance, soldiers benefitted from waring clothes that would frighten and impress the enemy (strong coloirs, skeleton-patterns on the jackets), but that in a more modern military, that would just make you an easy target. The modern gray suits are ment for men to blend in to the background, like soldiers in camouflage. The question is, do women continue to wear bright colours to make us easier targets?

[@MrAranton]

@@kerstinisaksson7151 Unpractical things are a status symbol of sorts. A lot of things women do and wear operate in that way. "I wear shoes I can barely actually walk in, because I don't have be practical about this", "I wear artificial nails because I don't do the kind of labour those things would disrupt" and "I can wear bright colours because I'm not getting shot at and therefore don't need to worry about camouflage" emphasize their status as beings that protected and shielded against the necessities of practicality.

[@kerstinisaksson7151]

@@MrAranton Sorry - just trying to be funny.

[@juliahaynie764]

I think that it’s fascinating how much politics impacts fashion and vice versa! Thanks for helping us understand how being fashionable changed in this era!

[@liznotslow]

Man, humans never change. All the satire written about the Macaroni Club, is like teasing Millennials for eating kale and quinoa, and saying we're reckless with our money for eating avocado toast, and we're destroying the housing market and fabric softener. 😂😂

[@ottersarah8812]

I died at fabric softener! :P

[@MissPoplarLeaf]

Also making fun of "bimbos" for enjoying makeup

[@yeoldebanjo5470]

Why the hell would you eat avocado toast?

[@kingexplosionmurderfuckoff9376]

@Electricfishfan It doesn't necessarily damage your body though. It depends on how far you go with it.

[@DrachenGothik666]

@@yeoldebanjo5470 'Cuz it's delicious. Subtle in flavour, creamy texture, doesn't overpower what it's paired with, & just *good*.

[@Betsyschugar]

I’ve always loved the term “fop”. I wish I had more reason to use it, but nobody I know dresses well enough to merit the term.

[@wangofree]

"I don't want Fop, dammit. I'm a Dapper Dan man!"

[@amb163]

I cannot wait to see your upcoming series on Gonzo's outfit! A Muppet's Christmas Carol is my favourite holiday movie and I loved Abby's video on the historical accuracy of the clothing :)

[@idrisa7909]

An interesting indicator of how tartan was probably used pre ban imo is to look at how Ireland does it: there are like, 10 families that have associated designs, but we do have /regional/ designs associated with counties, and historically Irish colors in the brat were regulated by class and would've included tartan like patterns

[@talideon]

Tartan was always regional: the association with particular families in Scotland was down to them adopting a more Germanic/continental noble class, as found in England, which was never a thing in Ireland until after the Normans invaded, and that lead to a situation where the regional patterns couldn't become associated with the new noble class, even after they went native. There was no such hiatus/replacement of the noble class in Scotland. The whole idea of there being "Irish family tartans" is a _very_ modern thing imported from Scotland and North America. Also, "county tartans" are not a thing: the concept of a county is also relatively recent, and was something introduced externally for local government purposes as part of the plantations. Historically, things like tartans would've been associated with underkingdoms (which only occasionally map to modern counties) or even townlands. But not counties.

[@idrisa7909]

@@talideon I'm aware counties are a recent thing, I was under the impression the regional designs were older abd adopted to give the new regional divides more gravitas

[@ushere5791]

men are starting to wear more and more interesting colors and textures via fun socks. :) beyond that, though, celebrities are certainly branching out--jon batiste for more traditional cuts in wonderful artistic colors; harry styles and billy porter for fun, over-the-top challenges to expected menswear. maybe we'll get a resurgence of more colorful and interesting menswear.

[@OldGuyVibes]

This is a great video! You definitely capture the reality of men’s fashion and it’s evolution. Personally I think men’s fashion, outside of the upper class eccentrics, had always been “boring” (though I love middle class fashion from every era more so than upper class) but on the question of “When did men’s fashion get boring?” I would say the 1880s. Aniline dies revitalized color in the 1850s and 60s, and in the 70s some men wore bright colored neckties and shiny silver top hats, but by the 80s, black, brown, and gray were the go-to tones even in the upper class. But on the whole I’d say fashion fluctuates between eras of grandiosity and modesty.

[@jenniferpingleton8389]

Also consider that this was the industrial revolution...the black and somber colors helped to hide the soot that fell on everything. An easy way to maintain an air of cleanliness, in an age that based itself on that being one of the middle class respectabilities.

[@OldGuyVibes]

@@jenniferpingleton8389 that too, which is also the reason that patterned shirts became popular.

[@KatharineOsborne]

Well I guess I can stop feeling weird about wearing tartans not associated with people I'm descended from (the people I'm descended from have some really dull tartans, so this opens things up).

[@NicoleRudolph]

Yep! The concept got started by companies producing tartans and naming them after clans, towns, etc, in the late 18th c. The assumption was made that this was "official" in some way! So if yours is boring, blame some weaver 200 years ago!

[@Eloraurora]

This is cracking me up, because it's such a close reflection of the mythos of Aran sweaters being mostly a marketing ploy. Ganseys are legit, though.

[@barbarahuber9392]

I read somewhere that the original tartan weavers had something called pattern sticks to separate the various colors of thread and when the English suppressed them, one the wooden sticks rotted and the real tartan cloths were lost, no one knew what their original pattern was : (

[@jamesl.shorten5718]

He also gets a bad rep and I always have to disagree. He did not single handly change men's fashion, it was many factors. And men's 19the century fashions weren't boring, rather more simplified and modern compared to the 18th century. Thank you for bringing light to this

[@user-ye6ty9ie8g]

they were boring and lame, just like modernity itself

[@AVisionInFur]

As someone with multiple degrees in literature, the Muppets version of A Christmas Carol is my absolute favorite. It is so true to the tale, draws the viewer in similarly to the way reading it does, and evokes all the right feels in all the right places. ❤️

[@sarahlaffin505]

I'm a Masters student in Celtic language and literature and the rare books collection of my university has a copy of the Vestiarium Scoticum from 1842. A fascinating book and very telling of Gaelic romanticisation. It was great to learn more about it!

[@aderyn7600]

God that is the coolest degree. Thats what i wanted to study but i didnt think you could find a course like that in america. So cool you must have some awesome sources available to you

[@EmelieWaldken]

THANK YOUUUU we were precisely talking about that with my partner and it's great to get more info on that shift in men's fashion ! Also I think you pointed out (quickly) a VERY decisive factor in why men's fashion became boring : With the Industrial Revolution, suddenly it was all about selling 100+ jackets (not one to one particular man). So the measures had to be simplified to fit a widest possible variety of bodies (aka goodbye fitted garments) and the styles and colours too because the jacket was to fit the taste of as many people as possible - and going simple is a very effective way to do that.

[@Smallpotato1965]

saw an interesting BBC thing about the novel and how it inspired and got it's inspiration of 'trends'. So in a time when 'sensibility' is 'in', you not only see a lot of romance novels popping up that have people getting sick and dying because of a broken heart, but you also see paintings of people crying over dead pet birds and the like No doubt this also reflected in the fashion. Then, inevitably, there would be a cultural backlash; a more severe and sober outlook on life would become the ideal, and this would be reflected into the fashion of the day. Or war would break out and suddenly men, who would be cleanshaven before, would wear beards or moustaches because war = masculine and moustaches = masculine. So what DID happen in the 1840's in Britain? Well, Victoria became Queen and married straight-laced Albert. More importantly, her reign ended the rule of some pretty promiscious and scandalous Georgians. The public had disapproved of their scandalous royalty for years, and that public consisted for a large part now, due to the rise of the middle classes in the previous century, of reasonable affluent middle class families, who got where they were by working hard, saving a penny and be upstanding members of society. So Victoria and Albert consciously tried to reflect that same wholesome middleclass rectitude in their public image. No more gaudy drunken parties, but happy family pictures of Mother Victoria and Strict Dad Albert next to a Christmas tree. And it worked; the Victorian age was a very succesful age, and the Royal Family became respected and beloved. This meant that 'fashion' no longer was a reflection of the Court, of those who could afford and revel in gaudy silks and flounces, but it became a reflection of the hardworking, entirely respectable (at least wanting to look respectable) Middle Classes.

[@astra1653]

Puppy says, "Okay Mama, you've talked to yourself long enough. Time for my emotionally supportive intervention... Now pet me. Thank you." And I love those fashion plates, they are amazing! What a fun period to explore. I bet you're going to do it justice, and I'm so happy that you're taking us along for the ride! Whee!

[@jeremiahgabriel5709]

Thank you *so much* for covering this. I learned a lot. As a man... I am SO sad this occurred (that the industrial revolution and whatever other circumstances resulted in a monotonous uniform for men), and am glad more humans are learning and talking about it. Ideally this will change, but for now, I still walk past shops, fancy shops or "regular", and menswear is still 90% pastel, neutrals, and greyscale. Sigh.

[@roxanebarbey1394]

Me watching the video: Oh wow, that's interesting. Me during the Gonzo reveal: loses sh*t.

[@beccahiller8346]

Saaaaaaame. Arrive for the history; squee for the Muppets. ^_^

[@Evaleastaristev]

YAY MUPPET COSPLAY! I love that look, and can't wait to see it in all of it's human sized glory. And puppy bloopers at the end of every video are *not* a bad thing. Give kisses and pats!

[@lenabreijer1311]

That indefinable something that makes a dandy is also excellent to keep the nouveau riche from aping their betters, the aristocracy. You still see it in mystery books from the 30s. Some working class girl trying to look middle class but not getting the colours and fabrics quite right and she will be the one getting killed, if only she hadn't tried to social climb....

[@costumeink147]

This!👏👏This is an excellent point!

[@Technodreamer]

The real takeaway is "death to the aristocracy", since fashion becomes just another avenue for oppression.

[@robintheparttimesewer6798]

Wow that was very well done!!! I hate when people talk about history a fixate on one fact or person. There are so many variables and influences heck even an off handed comment can change how we think of things that must have happened in history as well! Thank you for a well rounded look at historical men’s fashion.

[@cherisseepp5332]

As a gigantic fan of A Muppets Christmas Carol, I highly, highly approve!!!

[@TrueFork]

It's kind of sad that the best dressed man I knew growing up was a muppet

[@terranempire2]

I think that the Boring ness really apexes in the modern era. With rapid off the shelf suiting and preference of modern cuts which only really favor the slim cut.

[@TrueFork]

Very true. Not being slim cut myself I'm sorely tempted to dress more conservatively - say in the manner of Henry VIII...

[@marandadavis9412]

And without proper tailoring, they don't really fit anyone nicely. One of my husband's friends rented a suit for his wedding, only to find that he didn't actually fit any size that they carried because of his build; he's a body builder, so he needed a wider shouldered coat but all of the coats that fit him through the shoulders hung way too wide at his waist and hips

[@terranempire2]

@@marandadavis9412 exactly. Modern off the rack is square portioned. Skinny symmetry. No actual living humans fit that. So at the very least they all need to be tailored if not Mtm or actual bespoke. Truth is more clothes should be tailored but the fast fashion of buy today wear today has driven many tailors out of business.

[@ragnkja]

@@terranempire2 Even if they’re made to fit the average man, they _still_ don’t fit anyone properly, because nobody is average in every relevant way. It’s been shown statistically multiple times.

[@marikroyals7111]

@@marandadavis9412 Same for larger chested females. I have that problem with most shirts I wear, and if for some dress up occasion I decide to wears a dress I need something with a belt or cuts in at the waist so I don't look extremely fat(and I'm not even fat to begin with).

[@Alex-Sews]

*screeches happily in Gonzo love* Also, rule of thumb for historically accurate 1830's is that the color and pattern combos should make your eyes bleed. The outfits my mom wore to work at a living history museum set in that decade were so f*cking rad. She used to try to have as many plaids/checks/stripes/paisleys/flower prints on as she could, and it was a LOT with the layers...

[@cinemaocd1752]

I ended up doing a lot of research on the 1830s and 40s men's fashion for fan fiction. You mentioned the almost feminine sillouette and I was amazed to learn that corsets for men were a thing into this era, especially in the military where men wanted to wear very fitted uniforms. For fic reasons I learned a lot about men's shirts at this time, and it was the first major change in shirts in a century or more. The IP for the fic, by the way was AMC's The Terror (season 1), which takes place in the 1840s. Charles Dickens is a minor character in the series...

[@apieceofoldlace5002]

I was just thinking about this yesterday and wondering if anyone had written a book about when men's fashion stopped being embellished with embroidery, lace etc.

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

The extremes of fashion are often what tend to be remembered and preserved. When I searched online for 80s fashion, for example, it was all rainbow tutus, the most extreme shoulders, enormous hairdos, etc. Nothing that we actually wore in our daily lives showed up at all. Many of the elements of 80s style were very classic, feminine and flattering, and I really miss the quality of items from that time.

[@splendidcolors]

I wish I hadn't outgrown the first work suit I bought in 1986 or so. Cobalt blue with black lapels and black skirt, wool crepe so a good weight any time of year in Southern California.

[@WayToVibe]

It never occurred to me that dressing plainly, in clothing that is mass-produced, is a status symbol that you're working class and thus not of the "middle class" till this video. I was aware that people don't have clothing hand-tailored unless you're super-rich. I didn't think, before, anyone cared where your clothes came from. They're just utility. But, it didn't really click that this mass-produced clothing is the "uniform of the lower class" till now. I'm super motivated, now, to give the upper crust the stylish middle finger with my upcoming stylish wardrobe.

[@Rdldafu]

You’ve got it wrong - mass produced clothing during the industrial revolution catered primarily to the middle classes (the bourgeoisie). They were the ones that could afford it. Even though the middle class also belongs to the working class, they wanted to differentiate themselves from the poor working classes who mostly worked on factories, on the fields or in service. The poorer were the ones actually manufacturing the clothes, sold for relatively low prices to people who wanted to emulate the styles of the rich and aristocratic classes but couldn’t afford to. Mass produced clothes are the uniform of the bourgeoisie and of capitalism. Not the lower class! The rich don’t care if you buy 20 T-shirts for 5.50€ or not. And if they do, it’s probably because they own the sweatshop that produces them and pays 1€ a month to their underage workers.

[@WayToVibe]

@@Rdldafu I reread what I wrote and got super confused that I'd write that, then a bit of wording clued me into the era in which my comment is meant to reflect - Modern. Modern day people are judged on their looks, as everyone has always been. A rich person might not care if you or they wear T-shirts, but the t-shirts still speaks. What it says about a rich person is that they are dressing down. What it says about me is that I too am dressing down. I don't want to be someone who's wardrobe consists of any "dressing down" pieces, unless it's loungewear. They say dress the role you want to play so I will dress as someone who can afford a house in this economy - i.e. rich!

[@lisaowen6103]

So... the tartan plaid patterns mythos was Fabric-cated? 😜🦁

[@glitched-eyes7378]

"Flashy and Gaudy" a perfect summary of my fashion sense

[@racheljackson4144]

I am very delighted for more videos on 1830s and 40s men's fashion from you during this period of research

[@carolinem1954]

I'm very excited to see you tackling my favorite era of men's fashion. Especially since I have some patterns and materials to make some of my own pieces and I know your research/videos will be a fantastic resources when I finally have the time.

[@nian60]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the Gonzo outfit when it's done. Cute doggo at the end.

[@IngenuousSoprano]

I can't help noticing the trend that those concerned with being , "oh so much better than the past," is so very current in more things than fashion today. A position that's incredibly uninformed/ignorant. The past, the present, and the future will always have varying pros and cons. I really hope that we, as a society, can learn to look at these things in more nuanced ways.

[@firstlast4188]

Greta Lafleur has a great article (since turned into a book) in the Journal of Early American History (2014) that analyzes fops, dandies, macaronis, etc. from a sex/gender lens - it's on JSTOR and may be of interest to you!

[@v.ra.]

Ngl the short segment about tailoring losing its due dignity made me tear up a bit. What a wonderful lecturer Nicole is.

[@Brynwyn123]

This is so interesting. I've been wishing there was more coverage of men's historical fashion on KZbin, I like looking at women's fashion and learning but wearing it is so not my thing so it's hard to get really into any of this. Especially since it's difficult to alter men's patterns for a curvier body :(

[@sjenner76]

This was a fascinating insight into the critical shift in society that occurred with the Industrial Revolution. We focus so much on the ‘big’ things, like economics, infrastructure, philosophy, and more. But material cultural so often gets ignored, despite the fascinating insight it gives. Thank you!

[@davidveselinovich2189]

I can't believe it, I remember asking you if you did any men's wear from that era. My experience in that era was very interesting, and will be happy to see what you do, and maybe redo parts of mine

[@emayaych]

I’m making this comment before I watch the video because I’m kind of excited for it and please pardon my ignorance. My first job was in retail in a men’s department and one thing I noticed was that men’s fashion, specifically dress/business wear, has evolved over the years to become its current iteration of commercially, generically, and socially acceptable shapes, colors, and patterns while women get to run the gamete of what they can do with clothing. My short stint with research on the matter says that wasn’t always the case so I look forward to watching this video and learning more.

[@abbyxoxo48]

As someone whose entire knowledge of Beau Brummell stems from a singular line in a Billy Joel song, I found this video really interesting!!

[@anska7475]

Just wanted to leave a short appreciative note saying how much I love this series. I have been binge-watching it twice by now.

[@kathrynmccarthy]

Very very cool! I can't wait to see Gonzo's outfit in it's full glory. I've been wondering, can you make a video about your thought process when making a tailored coat? What I mean by that is like, if it's a more draped style coat or a more structured coat, how do you decide if it needs hair canvas or other support structures on the inside. My tailoring class in college was a while ago now and I'm interested in making myself a few tailored coats this winter, so I'd love to hear how you think through your coat design process.

[@spazticarwen]

The reason why you went down this deep dive… and I will not spoil it for others… is the best reason I have ever heard for doing anything ever and I can not WAIT to see how it comes out

[@roselewis24]

If you don’t take photographs of this outfit while hanging out with chickens then you won’t be doing it right. I’m so excited to see this done.

[@chardelraconner7324]

wear was the reciprocating perspective of the follicle ; never CORRECTED

[@MK-hh1vo]

It's a testament to your talents that I'm subscribed and binge watching videos on subjects of which I previously had no interest in...or so I thought! You make fashion history absolutely fascinating. Now I'm gearing up for "the History of Elastic" !!! Can't wait to see what I discover! 😄

[@kraakar]

I still blame Beau Brummel because he was against any ornamentation in men's attire and fostered the boring austerity that characterized men's attire ever since

[@darcy606_artist]

I love that men were just as obsessed with their appearance as women were and that one man even thought to write multiple paragraphs over the style and colors of cravats.

[@sArnoldsdotter]

I seriously hope this will bring out a love for the 1840's - it's always been my favourite fashion era, managing to be both understated and fun at the same time.

[@TheGFeather]

Very impressive, mister god-like smarty pants. I am SO STOKED for this!!!! You are going to totally rock that look!

[@MichelleSinTO]

I am so incredibly excited to see your upcoming videos on the Gonzo Christmas Carol clothing. It’s great seeing some attention on men’s wear.

[@nowherels64]

I just stumbled across this video, and enjoyed it thoroughly! I was not expecting your cosplay inspiration, but now I'm subscribed because I desperately want to see Gonzo's outfit in full scale! I had no idea Muppet Christmas Carol was so accurate! That's made my day!

[@fraeuleinrosenmaier]

I wish I could give this two thumbs up. First: Muppets Christmas Carol!!! I love that movie and I love the costumes! Second: 1840s Mens Fashion! It's so rare and I love everything regency, romantic era and early victorian!

[@SometimesPerplexed]

This video is a great matchup with (finally!) reading “The Pickwick Papers” all the way through.

[@antoniobroccoliporto4774]

I remember reading about the Maccheronis in the 1820-30’s using paddings on their calve to exaggerate the muscle they did not have…also the narrow waist that almost imitated how women’s dresses were, being so fitted at the waist and and very flouncy on the sleeves….seems almost like we’re just imitating the woman’s silhouettes in a slightly more masculine way.

[@marleymars2223]

I definitely think that the hiv epidemic had a lot to do with modern american fashion. There was pressure for men to not look "suspicious" if you get what i mean. After the 60s 70s and 80s there was a nosedive in the creativity and flashiness of mens clothing.

[@joymattice837]

I love your videos. The time and research you put into them is amazing. It makes me feel like I'm taking a master class in fashion histor, while folding my laundry.

[@BaroqueHuzzah]

My only knowledge of Beau Brummel prior to watching this was the one line in You’re Never Fully Dressed Without a Smile from Annie 😂 Thank you for broadening it!

[@sadurkee5]

Lol mine too!

[@DerekLyons]

My late Grandfather Arthur Lyons made Cary Grant's suit and more. The very famous suit from North by Northwest . He worked in Savile Row from the 1930's till 1967. Made suits for Edward the King of England. Rex Harrison, Fred Astaire and many more. This was at a place called Kilgour,French and Standbury .

[@KenZchameleon]

I love voice-over Nicole. I could listen to you read a phone book. So soft and soothing. Sometimes I tab away from the video and just listen.

[@elfieblue3175]

Gonzo cosplay. I did NOT see that coming. THANK YOU! Your channel has become a staple of my weekly screen time. "Magic eye thing" = autostereograph. You train your eyes to both look straight ahead instead of converge on a set point for depth perception, and then your brain stitches the hidden 3D image together. I used to buy Froot Loops just for the magic 3D picture on the back of the box in the 90s. I can't remember where I saw the word for it... maybe the Ontario Science Centre? It was pre-internet.

[@amidala3927]

Complete side note that I'm mentioning to both compliment you and to help you with the KZbin algorithm: wow, your makeup is so spot-on fantastic.

[@stephimarion]

I verbally said “omg yay” when you said the muppets Christmas Carol lol can’t wait!!

[@aalihte3378]

I was somewhat surprised that both this and your episode on historical shoes was extremely entertaining, thought-provoking and full of stuff I had no idea about. And I used to really be into historical fashion

[@PlasticBuddha88]

I was watching this on my tv, and had to log in just to say THAT IS THE COOLEST COSPLAY IDEA EVER. Muppet Christmas Carol is one of my favorite movies. Period. I’m super excited to see you make the suit!!!!!!

[@lemongreed7916]

Thank you for the essay! I always blamed the blandness of menswear on two world wars that made people poorer and also brought army uniforms of boring colours and made men shave their heads - thus creating the image of a manly man. Add awful quality of fast fashion to that... 1970-1990 were an improvement from that, although the colourful and wild styles were not for everyone - there are caricatures of "men looking like women" because of bright colours, long hair and high heels. And that's where the problem of toxic masculinity comes. I believe everyone should be able to wear whatever they want. I know that there are a lot of guys who want something more than just jeans and t-shirts, but there is just not much on the market. Even in women's fashion when you wear something that stands out you get weird looks or even unwanted comments from strangers mocking you for being different. I want people to not be afraid of looking different, and it's becoming easier and easier, but still far from idyllic. The idea of what people "should" look like is still deeply embedded in minds of many. I recently had a passionate argument with my bf about modern fashion - he prefers casual or sportswear and thinks that nonconformist clothes make men less manly. I really love styles from Jojo and fantasy series and RPGs (witcher 3 for example), but he said they're either too gay or too fancy like it's a bad thing. I literally cried for half an hour afterwards - that's how much I hate toxic masculinity

[@emmakennedy687]

Ngl I was NOT expecting that to be the cosplay but I ADORE it so much

[@suzannederringer1607]

There was a book/film in 1956 - THE MAN IN THE GRAY FLANNEL SUIT. A NYC Ad Man - the Gray Flannel Suit expressed both economic respectability and the deadly conformity of the '50s. And then in the '60s, the pendulum went the other way, at least with the younger generation of Hippies.

[@АртемГірман]

The ending part is so much adorable and cute. Thanks for the profile on some reasons men's fashion has been "conventionally" boring. Such format really takes the research a step further and without just putting a "boring" label on a topic.

[@Natashia-gz8iw]

Watching this a few years later. The fashion of the 1830s wasn't alluring by modern day standards which is why I think period dramas tend to modernise the clothing or rely more on the regency style clothing. Fascinating video.

[@molnotmole3428]

Omg I am way too excited to see your full sized gonzo!!! Also I’m going to have to rewatch Abby’s video

[@TheKawaiifan]

22:34 okay I literally was heavy breathing and stroking my screen at this waist coat, it is so fucking beautiful and I love it so much I dont even know if I want to wear it myself or just convince my partner to model in it its just so beautiful and amazing aaaaaaaaaaaaa

[@יעל-ר7ל]

Besides the topic itself being very interesting this also helped me understand something else you talked about which is why men thought corsets gave women a "manish" Silhouette

[@יעל-ר7ל]

Also very excited to see the finished project! :)

[@adoptedbythe1king]

I had never heard the historical context for macaroni, but fop and pup I had definitely heard of and that general "club" in quite a few books by Lousia May Alcott, especially in Little Women in reference to Laurie and his friends and in 8 cousins/ Rose in Bloom, one of the cousins is nicknamed dandy and called all the other names at different points for being especially fastidious and a little bit more fine and fashion forward in his dress and appearance. Much effort is taken by his loved ones to let him enjoy his finery but not get sucked in to the drinking and gambling less "wholesome" side of things

[@jonfrombuckland_3784]

This was an incredibly interesting video and also I can't wait to see the cosplay that brought on all this research!

[@mollyeverglade3655]

I'm so jazzed for this project. Muppet Christmas Carol is my favourite Christmas movie by miles and the costumes are amazing, even on the Muppets. So keen.

[@boundingheartgames]

This was my favourite topic at uni (I studied fashion management) and the masculine denunciation (as we were taught it being called) is one that I could talk about for hours!

[@Rocsanna]

This was fascinating and the cosplay will be so much fun! Can't wait to see it!

[@thetasteofsunshine]

oh, the bright colors of the late 1830s! Brings back that age-old question, "Is it even historically accurate if it doesn't make your eyes bleed?"

[@mj_dolman5122]

So history proves that men didn't always associate masculinity with very plain and conforming dress codes, yet now this idea is pervasive and even increasing, not decreasing. It makes me sad for men because colour and pattern are so important to me, I can't imagine having that taken away.and not being able to claim it back without having one's gender and sexuality questioned if one was in fact a straight cis male. That would be so depressing!

[@gideonjones5712]

I mean, as a straight cis male, I can't imagine caring. Nothing to do with masculinity because I'm aware of how subjective fashion is with time, I just don't see anything wrong with jeans and a solid color shirt (outside of formal situations of course, but even when something fancy is required I ain't happy about it). In my art I'll give people wacky fashion because it looks cool on paper, but on myself I just don't see the point.

[@mj_dolman5122]

@@gideonjones5712 I'm not saying you have to care, just that all men shouldn't have to conform to one narrow standard of dress.

[@kaiabea280]

So cool to see men’s fashion addressed like this! Very interesting, thank you!

[@carolynward5567]

Rebecca from Pocket full of Poseys is also making an 1840s outfit based on Muppet Christmas Carol. One of my favorite movies of all time.

[@aliciarabb2501]

I always love your videos, so many wonderful rabbit holes. tangential but still related. Another contribution to the “office dress code” are the How to Dress for Success books that came out in the 70’s late 60’s. If you can find copies, wow read with grain of salt. A lot of ideas in there have been cut and pasted into corporate dress codes for too long. It is sad that so many people think clothing is to cover ourselves rather than to express ourselves. The era in this video is so wild but also pure fun

[@katiearbuckle9017]

My Dad, wore a Bright Blue almost Teal Tux to his 1976 Wedding. Which actually carried into my Brother's 2000s Wedding Tux he wore a Teal Vest and Hankcheif. Now they themselves didn't really plan this odd coincidence but it was in both weddings as part of the color scheme. But I guess even Men's Fashion depends on the Event.

[@chardelraconner7324]

that's *your* steed ; never ridden at the stomach therefore meaning the connectivity should be great in use as the cycle of it's becoming