Why is the Cynwyd Line in Philly so short?

[@TheOneKEA]

Other comments have mentioned the ex-PRR catenary poles and associated utility lines above the Cynwyd Line, but the notable thing about the utility lines is that the two 138kV circuits on the poles are a crucial part of Amtrak’s electric grid for the NEC! When the PRR electrified their low-grade freight bypass lines between Enola Yard in Enola, PA (northwest of Harrisburg) and Morris Yard in Morristown, PA (now used by New Jersey Transit for their Trenton Line equipment), the 138kV circuits that fed the western arm of the PRR electricification did not continue east along the Main Line of Public Works past the substation in Paoli. Instead, the 138kV circuits continued northeast along the route of the Trenton Cutoff to a switching station in Earnest, PA, near the site of the junction between the Trenton Cutoff and the former line to Reading and Pottsville described in the video. The 138kV circuits then continued southeast along the right-of-way of the former line to meet the substation at Zoo Junction, and are the 138kV lines shown in your video above the Cynwyd Line. The substation at Paoli is fed via two dead-end circuits that connect to the grid at the substation in Frazer, PA. The former switching station at Earnest used to have a lone 138kV circuit that continued further east along the Cutoff to meet the NEC at Morristown, and due to its decommissioning and removal along with the Cutoff’s 12kV catenary, the two 138kV circuits shown in the video are the only way that any of the 25Hz power produced at Port Richmond, Metuchen, and Lamokin can be efficiently transmitted to the Keystone Corridor and the electric services that use it. Amtrak wants to decommission and remove these 138kV lines because they travel over a very circuitous route along rights of way that they don’t own and won’t run trains over, but the project they developed to install two 138kV circuits along the Main Line foundered for a variety of NIMBY-adjacent reasons. As far as I know, there are no plans to replace the decommissioned 138kV circuit that ran between Earnest and Morristown. Until a solution can be found, the circuits above the Cynwyd Line will need to remain in service indefinitely.

[@TheOneKEA]

Correction: the name of the NJT yard is Morrisville Yard, and the name of the town is also Morrisville, PA. In order to support NJT’s electric movements in the yard, they constructed a new 12kV switching station that is fed from Morrisville Substation on the NEC. Notably, the entry for the substation on Wikimapia states that passive provision has been made to feed the switching station with a 138kV circuit!

[@gigglesmurf2004]

Thanks for the interesting history!

[@spacepeanut]

omg i almost forgot we did this, feels like so long ago had a great time and i'm honored to have been your token philadelphian (not actually from philly) for the day lol

[@Thom-TRA]

Eh close enough haha. How’s your SEPTA challenge going?

[@spacepeanut]

@@Thom-TRA on hold rn bc life has too many things going on 💀

[@Thom-TRA]

@@spacepeanut as life tends to do

[@j3ojos]

The Welsh names of these suburbs of Philadelphia have always intrigued me. Bala, Cynwyd and Bryn Mawr are all Welsh, must have had a lot of Welsh settlement in the region.

[@Foodington]

The first Europeans to settle in the area were indeed Welsh Quakers (1600s). However, the many of the "Welsh-ish" place names were given long after the area was fully Anglified (1800s). Apparently, the local gentry thought that the welsh names were "classy" and inflated property values. Thus, it became stylish to give streets/towns/etc Welsh sounding names. I've been told that a lot of the welsh sounding street names are complete gibberish to native Welsh speakers, as well.

[@phillyphilly2095]

Yes, there was an area set aside for Welsh Quaker colonists, called the Welsh Tract. Some of the Welsh place names derive from the original settlement. But as the other commenter said, some place names were applied in the 19th century for prestige.

[@steve05401]

@@Foodington Not entirely true. Haverford Township (where I grew up) was named Haverford from its establishment in 1682. Haverford named after the town of Haverfordwest in Wales. Similarly with Radnor Township around the same time. Though you're on the money insofar as "Gladwyne" and "Berwyn" and some others are concerned.

[@Jsd8675]

@@Foodington Forgetting about the Swedes?

[@Foodington]

@@Jsd8675 you're right! They were the first. I'm assuming Swedeland was a swedish settlement in modern day Upper Merion. I've never heard of a old swedish settlement in Lower Merion. But, they were no doubt in the area.

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

In the 2000s, an idea was proposed called the Schuylkill Valley Metro to Reading which would've used the ex-PRR tracks from 52nd Street to Ivy Ridge and connect with the existing ex-Reading main line to Reading and proposed entirely electric service unlike the Reading trains. However, the FRA rejected it due to high costs, and in 2006, the PA government announced funding would not be forthcoming. But in 2021, Amtrak revealed a plan for Reading-NYC service using the former Reading Main Line, so trains will head to Reading using the Manayunk/Norristown Line instead of connecting to Manayunk/Norristown from the Cynwyd Line. In May 2022, Berks, Chester, and Montgomery counties formed the Schuylkill River Passenger Rail Authority for the purpose of furthering the project. This route was accepted by the FRA in 2023. As mentioned, the Schuylkill Branch was built by the PRR and competed with the Reading Company. The Schuylkill Branch originated as an attempt by the Pennsy to develop its anthracite coal holdings in the upper Susquehanna watershed. Prior to 1874, when a change to the state's constitution blocked further investment by transportation companies in mining properties, the PRR had invested more than 5 million dollars in the anthracite business and owned an estimated 1 billion tons of recoverable anthracite, but it lacked an easy rail route from the anthracite fields to tidewater. Shipments to NYC required cooperation of the Lehigh Valley Railroad, which had its own coal interests, while bringing anthracite to Philly on the Pennsy's rails required it to travel a circuitous route via Sunbury and Harrisburg. A more direct route to Philly was desirable. They knew such a route would inevitably follow the Schuylkill River and parallel the Reading Company's main line. The Reading's successful efforts to break the PRR's monopoly on Philly-NYC service in the late 1870s was intensely provocative to PRR management, and retaliation against the Reading by breaking into its own territory on the Schuylkill played a role in the PRR's decision to build the branch. The Schuylkill Branch service was primarily as a commuter rail line between Philadelphia and Norristown. Service to Pottstown was made available in 1886, and an extension to New Boston, near Mahanoy City, was opened by the Pottsville and Mahanoy Railroad around the same time. The final piece, from New Boston to Delano Junction, had been built by the Lehigh Valley Railroad before 1870, but this was leased by the PRR in 1885. The line was first electrified in 1930 between Philadelphia and Norristown (Haws Avenue), while the Reading Company wouldn't electrify what's now the Manayunk/Norristown Line until 1933. Plans for Schuylkill Branch electrification beyond Norristown, to Phoenixville, were not carried out. With the surge in automobile sales and construction of extensions of the Pennsylvania Turnpike and the Interstate Highway System in the state in the 1950s, as mentioned, Pennsy eliminated commuter rail service in 1960 north of Manayunk, yielding Philadelphia, Norristown, and Reading commuter and through-passenger service to their rival. They built Ivy Ridge in 1980 as a park-and-ride, with the line extended using .8 miles of track that had been used by Manayunk trains to change direction within a remotely controlled interlocking where the Schuylkill Branch went from two tracks to one. The former single-platform was constructed within the space occupied by the abandoned second track. After Ivy Ridge service ended in May 1986, it became a Manayunk/Norristown station as a platform was hastily built on the Reading main line in August 1986. The park-and-ride lot sat empty until SEPTA built a staircase connecting the derelict upper level to the new lower-level platform to help ridership. The upper-level platform was finally demolished in 2012

[@Thom-TRA]

I’ll be curious to see how the future Amtrak trains access the Norristown line. Will they use the tunnel?

[@harveywachtel1091]

@@Thom-TRA I think that's the only reasonabke way to get between former Reading lines [Norristown/Reading] and former Pennsy lines [NEC]

[@harveywachtel1091]

@@Thom-TRA Assuming they use the tunnel [I can't see what else they'd do], an interesting question is what stops they'd make. If they stop at Suburban or Jefferson, that would make them the preferred NY-Philly service for travellers to and from Center City.

[@gigglesmurf2004]

My grandfather lived north of Pottstown and took the train every day to go to Drexel as a commuter student in the 1950’s. His farm family didn’t have a car or money for him to live at college. He went on to get a PhD in Chemistry and taught at Millersville University for 30 years.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Worth mentioning an Amtrak train on its way to NYC accidentally ended up on the Cynwyd Line! On November 13, 2013, Amtrak Keystone Train 644 made an unscheduled stop on its way from Harrisburg to NYC. Apparently, they were having some issues with the cab car 9639 so after departing Philadelphia 32 minutes late, it was decided that they should run west up to 52nd Street on the Cynwyd Line, switch ends and run through the subway at Zoo back onto the NEC with AEM-7AC 904 leading east. Well at least that was the plan. But instead of stopping just west of the signal at 52nd Street, the train continued on two miles to the end of the line, stopping a car length short of the bumper post at Cynwyd! Bala Cynwyd lies in the former Welsh Tract that was settled in the 1680s by Welsh Quakers, who met with William Penn to secure a land grant so they could conduct affairs in their own language and become its own county. The Welsh Tract's boundaries were established in 1687, but by the 1690s, the land had already been partitioned among different counties, despite appeals from the Welsh settlers, and the Tract never gained self-government. These Welsh Quakers named Bala Cynwyd in 1682 after Bala (bala in Welsh refers to the outflow of a lake) in Gwynedd, and Cynwyd in Denbighshire. The leader of these Welsh Quakers was John Roberts, and his family and other Welsh families became influential in the area, through mills and the eventual introduction of the railroad, and the railroad of course would give this collection of communities a name, the Philadelphia Main Line, after the PRR's mainline. As suburbanization spread westward from Philly in the late 19th century thanks to trains, living in a community with a Welsh name was considered classy and desirable. Thus, some communities in the area formerly comprising the Welsh Tract were subsequently given Welsh or Welsh-sounding names, like Bryn Mawr and Gladwyne. The Cynwyd in Wales once had its own rail station on the Ruabon-Barmouth Line, but it closed along with the rest of the line in the 1960s. The line in Wales was scheduled to be closed under the Beeching Axe in 1965, but flooding ended passenger services early in 1964, however the section between Ruabon and Llangollen was subsequently reopened for passengers in December that year before ending for good in January 1965 with freight service continuing until 1968. Cynwyd though remained shut after 1964. The Bala in Wales also had service on this same Ruabon-Barmouth Line, but unlike Cynwyd, service on its section of the line between Bala, Bala Junction, and Dolgellau was briefly restored in December 1964 and ended in January 1965. Today, Bala has the Bala Lake Railway, a narrow-gauge heritage railway on the former standard-gauge Ruabon-Barmouth Line and connects Llanuwchllyn with Bala Pen-y-Bont.

[@officialmcdeath]

@@AverytheCubanAmerican one may easily follow much of the route by taking the express bus from Wrexham to Dolgellau \m/

[@Thom-TRA]

My question is, did no one realize they had passed 52nd? Like how do you travel all the way to Cynwyd?

[@davidawalkerjr2905]

I remember that!

[@davidawalkerjr2905]

As a Welsh-America it should be pronounced “Kunued”. In Welsh “Y”s are pronounced like “U”, and amusingly “U”s are pronounced like “Y”s! 😜 DN Me sometime. I have Two Generations of PRR/SEPTA knowledge, and I’m more than happy to share.

[@DCinchi]

Hi Thom! Glad you're getting around. I hope you enjoy Philadelphia....there used to be a very long streetcar line, the Germantown trolley, and PCC cars used to run on that line.

[@jonathanstensberg]

Really wish Septa would build a new stop for the line around 53rd and Parkside just to run shuttle trains for concerts at the Mann Center.

[@phillyphilly2095]

@@jonathanstensberg Not a bad idea.

[@Thom-TRA]

You could also transfer to the trolley there

[@spacepeanut]

used to be one at 52nd st

[@redarrow5591]

It's still in the long term plans to convert the line to Light Rail and connect it via Lancaster Avenue and the trolley Subway. The line would be converted to the heavy rail broad gauge and continue to utilize the underpass to cross the Harrisburg Main; other connections would be severed. This is still heavily in play as the old overpass (the old Cynwyd tracks) is deteriorating heavily and will need to be taken down in the near future.

[@phillyphilly2095]

@redarrow5591 That's a logical idea. Thanks for the information. Ideally, SEPTA would include this change as part of Trolley Modernization. Hope they can do it.

[@davidburrow5895]

I rode the Cynwyd line once, when I was exploring the area where my Welsh-American ancestors lived near what is now Wynnefield station. It is a unique line, and the area feels very different than most of Philly.

[@Thom-TRA]

Hope you had a Wales of a time. Get it?

[@MATTPhilly101]

I live right on the Cynwyd Heritage Trail. There's an old Norfolk-Souther rail bridge (just south of the Manayunk bridge) that they want to convert into a path, very similar to the rest of the Cynwyd trail. I really hope Lower Merion/Philadelphia make this happen!

[@lekinsh]

Oh I have been to that station several times to start my bike ride to the Phoenixville via the Cynwyd Heritage trail and Schuylkill River trail. I always wondered about that little train. I need to ride it at least one in case they close it In the future .

[@rikkichunn8856]

A delightful little video about a delightful little line. Great job, Thom and Rose!

[@Thom-TRA]

Thank you!

[@robertshelton9881]

I used to bike along this line. There used to be a coffee shop in the charming old station at the end of the line.

[@Transit_Biker]

Because trains were de-prioritized by the legislature & counties/municipalities the line served. We are lucky to even have the regional rail system at all. The frustrating thing is how SEPTA has continuously boxed themselves in, making expansion either hugely expensive, or impossible. An ounce of prevention is worth way more than a pound of cure here. Great video!

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Woodchuck/groundhog facts: Groundhogs are a member of the marmots or Marmota genus in the family Sciuridae or the squirrel family, as they are large ground squirrels! Groundhogs are native to Alaska, the east coast of the contiguous US, and much of Canada! Despite the "wood" in woodchuck, the name woodchuck has nothing to do with wood, nor chucking it! It comes from an Algonquian (perhaps Narragansett) name for the animal, wuchak, which means digger! They can weigh up to over 13 pounds (around 6 kilograms), which is about twice the average weight of a newborn human baby. Groundhogs have four incisors, which grow 1.5 millimeters per week. A groundhog eats primarily wild grasses and other vegetation, including berries, bark, leaves, and agricultural crops, but very little water. Most of their moisture come from dewy leaves. They’re mostly herbivores, except for when they’re not. They will occasionally be spotted snacking on insects, bird eggs and other tiny critters. An adult groundhog can eat more than a pound of vegetation daily. Instead of storing food for the winter, groundhogs stuff themselves to survive the winter without eating. The groundhog plays an important role maintaining healthy soil in woodlands and plains. As such, the species is considered a crucial habitat engineer. The groundhog is an extremely intelligent animal, forming complex social networks and capable of understanding social behavior, forming kinship with its young, understanding and communicating threats through whistling, and working cooperatively to solve tasks such as burrowing. They're also great swimmers and tree climbers! Groundhogs can hold their breath for up to 5 minutes when diving into water to escape danger. A groundhog typically sticks close to home. They usually don't wander farther than 15 to 30 m from their den during the daytime. A groundhog's burrow can be anywhere from eight to 66 feet long, with multiple exits and a number of chambers. There can be several levels to their burrows. They have a burrow for hibernating, and then they have another section of the burrow that's more like their summer home where they can come out more easily. Their burrows even have separate rooms for "doing their business"! In some cases, groundhogs have more than one residence and move from one burrow to another. When they hibernate in the winter, the groundhog's heartbeat slows from 80 beats per minute to 5 beat per minute, their respiration reduces from 16 breaths per minute to as few as 2 breaths per minute, and their body temperature drops from about 99 degrees Fahrenheit (37.2 degrees Celsius) to as low as 37 F. Using a groundhog and its shadow to predict the weather originated from the Pennsylvania Dutch! Groundhog Day first appeared in the local Punxsutawney newspaper in 1886. Germans had a tradition of marking Candlemas (also February 2) as "Badger Day" (Dachstag), on which if a badger emerging from its den encountered a sunny day, thereby casting a shadow, it heralded four more weeks of winter. So when these Germans migrated to Pennsylvania, the badger became the "dox" (groundhog in Pennsylvania Dutch), and winter's spell would be prolonged for six weeks instead of four.

[@Thom-TRA]

Your best comments contain animal facts

[@KazyEXE]

Never rode the Cynwyd line but always appreciated the one-car trains I'd see in 30th St while I waited for the Paoli/Thorndale train back when I worked in Bryn Mawr.

[@TheHungryTransitFan]

Always great to see a surprise Rose appearance in a video!

[@ck4426]

This little line is really awesome and once again your historical background and details make it even more so. Awesome!!!

[@jasperyapping]

W rose one of my fav guests in the TRA universe

[@Thom-TRA]

I learned so much spending just a few hours together

[@spacepeanut]

framing this one for my wall

[@Thom-TRA]

@@spacepeanut the ego boost you didn’t know you needed haha

[@poyklr]

This brought back memories: I lived right off the "Manayunk" Line, and it was my commuter train to school & Center City from about 1960 until about 1977. When I rode the line, it was still the Pennsy, and used crimson MP-54s...which were old by then. Then in the late-60s it switched to Silverliner II's. It was a double-track line all the way to the end. There was an on-demand stop at 52nd St., at the top of the flyover to get to the Schuylkill Branch (no stop in-bound). Until the late 60s there was a parallel hump track that fed freight cars into the 59th St. yard, past the branch flyover. My station, Bala, originally had 2 station houses, one on each side. When I was very young, the outbound station actually had a railroad family living in the station! That was torn down sometime in the early 60s, but the in-bound station survived into the 70s. The waiting room had a coal-fired potbelly stove that was eventually converted to oil, and some benches. I remember when I was commuting to jr. high (Masterman) thankfully waiting in that room for the train on wintery mornings, and the several students there would take turns peeking out the door for the train. There was also a ticket sales booth there. The line was always a low-turnout line - never more than 2 Silverliner cars (maybe 4 MP54s), even in rush hour. The last in-bound train was around 10:40p - I remember hearing it go by from my bedroom. Although passenger service to Reading stopped in 1960, the right of way was also an active freight line; many a time I watched empty coal hoppers go by on their way back to Anthracite region. And once a year, the Circus train would pass by (once outbound to Reading, once inbound), and it would be a big event for the kids on by block to stand & wave as it passed by.

[@steve05401]

Grew up in Haverford Township. Thank you for pronouncing "Cynwyd" right! Or, at least, the way all we natives do. :) Great segment!

[@harveywachtel1091]

I once read that back in the halcyon days of my youth, before all-digit dialing, there were telephone exchanges in the area designated "CYnwyd " -- and *lots* of wrong numbers.

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks! Had to consult a dictionary haha

[@GeldaStPete]

@@Thom-TRA Was also impressed with your pronunciation of Schuylkill

[@rayrooney4656]

It used to be the Manayunk line. It got cut off after the Manayunk Viaduct was closed in 1986 after it was damaged beyond use by SEPTA not maintaining the drains and water damage destroyed the concrete. This came just months after stations on the line were rebuilt with federal money, including a new Ivy Ridge station with air conditioning and rest rooms. I used it for years. In the 90s chunks started falling from the viaduct and hitting cars and everything below. Nets were hung under it to catch pieces.

[@Thom-TRA]

The name was the Ivy Ridge line

[@timothystockman7533]

I was out this morning with friends for a walk on another rail-trail, the old Newtown line. The ROW is still owned by SEPTA, but the tracks are ripped up and converted to a trail from Rockledge to Bristol Road. We walked from the old Walnut Hill station to the site of the Bethayres diamond, where it crosses the West Trenton line, and then back to Walnut Hill.

[@jackcraig4268]

The Newtown line used to be one of the most scenic lines around. But SEPTA wanted nothing to do with diesel trains and finally got the opportunity to "temporarily" end service in January of 1983. But the trail has now been completed to Fox Chase and plans are to extend it all the way to Newtown.

[@BensOnTheRadio]

To celebrate 50 years of the Silverliner IV’s, SEPTA repainted 4 in heritage schemes, with a Reading, Pennsylvania, Penn Central, and Conrail variant. They look great!

[@leprechaungangster56]

Looks to me like they decided between the poor condition of the bridge and the existing Reading ROW, once the City Connector was built they turned what would have essentially become a loop into the R6, and it's only 90% a loop.

[@shigemorif1066]

I lived in Manayunk in the early 2000’s and had no idea it was so close to cynwyd. Glad Manayunk is still looking nice!

[@Thom-TRA]

Manayunk had a gritty charm I wasn’t expecting. And yeah, a leisurely half hour walk!

[@HyperDaveUK]

Love that there's so many Welsh words here!

[@Thom-TRA]

Too bad there’s no super long ones!

[@andyknott8148]

Including that the line originally went to Barmouth.

[@L33tSkE3t]

The reason Cynwyd is spelled like that is because it was settled by Welsh Quakers and that is how that would be spelled in the Welsh language

[@Thom-TRA]

Yep

[@yossiea]

Many years ago an Amtrak train accidentally went onto the cynwyd line and Septa cut the power and the train cruised to the end of the line.

[@Thom-TRA]

I read about that story today

[@AirplaneJunkie82]

The transition to the SEPTA Cynwyd line back then was right at the end of Amtrak's 52nd St. Jumpover track which is not used anymore. Coincidentally that day, the SEPTA dispatcher proactively lined the route for the next scheduled Cynwyd train ahead of time, obviously not expecting any Amtrak trains to be going up the Jumpover track. So when the Amtrak train made their wye move, when they saw a good signal they figured it must be for them to accept it so they kept going and going and going. Meanwhile, the SEPTA dispatcher was trying to tell whatever train on his monitor to stop their move, they couldn't hear since they were still on the Amtrak road channel so the dispatcher decided to de-energize the branch but by this point they had already made it to the end of the line at the bumper by Cynwyd station. Because it's such a short branch this all happened so quickly. When amtrak figured out what was going on, they called the crew still on the amtrak road channel to give their exact location, the crew responded "Well I can't pronounce it but I can spell it for you...C-Y-N-W-Y-D station"

[@jkang7265]

Definitely a slight kinship with the Yellow Line (formerly the Skokie Swift) here in the Chicago area, interesting! Thanks

[@Thom-TRA]

Love the Skokie swift! I have a magnet of it on my fridge

[@christophercotton9048]

SEPTA really needs to look at extending the Cynwyd Line further out maybe out to Media in Delco County or Norristown in Montgomery County.

[@ICEHAWKSBOII_5]

Tra you make really good content 😁

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks! You’re always first

[@kr46428]

Given the name, the single car, the "request stop" style (5:04), and the green and red station building at Manayunk, I momentarily thought you had traveled to Wales! Still an interesting little line that I had not heard of, thank you for highlighting it!

[@tvofftheradioandonthetv9394]

i used to commute on this line! it was usually me and one other guy. one time i was shocked to see a group of about five extra people get on - the busiest i ever saw it. i do like that the station building is still in some sort of use instead of just shuttered.

[@Thom-TRA]

I wonder what the group was!

[@scorpgal6087]

Dude, you missed the funniest thing about this line! When pieces of the bridge were falling onto the expressway (not funny!), they put a net under the bridge. It became known as "Diaper Bridge"😂

[@Thom-TRA]

That’s hilarious

[@maxjohkna]

spoiler alert: it used to be longer

[@SomeRamdomAhole]

Nooooo shit

[@teecefamilykent]

Fnarr fnarr!

[@Trainrider1]

Omg I never knew1!1,1!

[@Thom-TRA]

Was this really worth the effort of typing?

[@teecefamilykent]

@@Thom-TRA yes!

[@peterfrey6062]

Tell Septa to show the line some love---- it's high on its list for termination. It's really another major loss to rail travel in Philly. It would be a perfect site for a trolley or light rail line and it could connect with the #10 trolley along Lancaster ave. But that's just my dream. Thanks for a good ride, Thom. Enjoyed it

[@blacklisted351]

I think their trolley plan includes an extension to the Overbook R5 station

[@peterfrey6062]

@@blacklisted351 that's right.

[@Thom-TRA]

You could so easily convert it into a trolley branch, the lines basically meet already

[@peterfrey6062]

@@Thom-TRA the only problem is the incompatible track gauge between standard RR and PA trolley gauge

[@chickennuggetcentral576]

@@peterfrey6062re-gauge the tracks

[@ducis3446]

Def check out the Paoli-Thorndale (R5) line for more Welsh names! Berwyn, Bryn Mawr, Merion…. it’s a really lovely area

[@Thom-TRA]

That one’s next on my list!

[@GeldaStPete]

Love the Cynwyd Heritage Trail, cycled it a few weeks ago from the manayunk side and down to west philly

[@mrvwbug4423]

That line would be a good candidate to convert to a tram or light rail line

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah that would be more effective

[@woodalexander]

It would lose access to 30th st and suburban station. Makes sense to have it all interoperable as FRA heavy rail.

[@Thom-TRA]

@@woodalexander the streetcars serve both of those stations.

[@stephenkeever6029]

@Thom, always glad to see you doing a video in Philly. I always learn plenty of new information and history for your excellent videos. And now I have a rail trail to explore that I never knew of!

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks! Happy exploring!

[@michaelb9629]

That’s an interesting train line I’m sure I’d like to check out someday. Yesterday I went on a Summerville Steam Train Excursion from the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum in Chattanooga to Summerville, GA and it was 4 hours long each way. That’s because the train had to operate at slow speeds throughout the trip. I bet that line is longer even though it wouldn’t feel like it if the train was going faster. My lead locomotive was Southern 4501 by itself. Sometimes they do double headers with Southern 630 leading and 4501 right behind it.

[@Thom-TRA]

That’s awesome! Steam locos are so impressive

[@michaelb9629]

@@Thom-TRA They sure are!

[@anthonywarrener1881]

Thank you for this fascinating video ! It was good to see the Pennsy emblem at Suburban station, and following your ride, I noticed that all the catenary masts were very tall, which is identical to the masts along the North East Corridor. Apparantly when the Pennsy electrified right through to DC, they did a deal with the electric supply companies to use their masts to carry electric supply wires to other users off the Pennsy route ! The tall masts continue beyond the closed section north of Cynwyd, so it appears that they are still used for electricity supply to other users ! On the names along the mainline to Paoli, there are several Welsh names like Brynmor, and Haverford. Many Welsh people moved toPennsylvania at the height of the steel making era, and there is a wonderful novel called “Off to Philadelphia in the morning” which documents people who emigrate to Pennsylvania ! It was written by Alexander Cordell, and is well worth a read !

[@Thom-TRA]

Yes, I believe Amtrak is actually the owner of some of the wires on the manayunk bridge, strangely enough.

[@jftransit]

Found this channel today.. it’s dope I like it. Very good content

[@CadetSF]

I love the viaduct and heritage trail for walking, but also as someone who lives in Manayunk and works in Bala the ability to take a single ride over into bala would be very appealing if the train still ran as far as Ivy Ridge. Currently if I'm taking public I have to take a bus to the Wissahickon transit center and then wait for a different bus to get over the city ave highway bridge onto city ave proper.

[@brianhubert8418]

Great video and what an interesting branch line with an interesting history and thanks for informing me how to pronounce it. SEPTA regional rail service has such great bones with fully-electric service with catenary, through running, great connections to Amtrak and a direct airport link. I hope plans to increase frequencies throughout the day every day come to fruition along with level boarding to speed boarding and improve accessibility. With such improvements SEPTA regional rail could easily become one of the best such systems in North America and even stand up to S-Bahn and RER systems in Europe. And despite it being a former PRR line between Philly Reading and Pottsville it throws serious interurban vibes with the single track and single car trains

[@Thom-TRA]

It really is pretty good for the US!

[@christine_penn]

I occasionally ride my bike down from Conshohocken. On one trip, I rode that bridge over and up to the Cynwyd Station. It's a fun little trip...that rides on that original rail line that once went to Reading.

[@ViewsFromJames]

another TRA in philly, you made my day

[@Thom-TRA]

Hey I love Philly, I’ll be back soon!

[@woodalexander]

It sounds like the bridge falling apart was ultimately why the line was cut back from Ivy Ridge, but that seems like it was inevitable since the Center City tunnel made service from two different lines in the same place redundant.

[@Thom-TRA]

But you could have sent Cynwyd line trains to any of the other ex-Reading lines…

[@woodalexander]

@@Thom-TRA That's true, although I'm not sure what purpose the Cynwyd routing would really serve in that scenario?

[@zakeriad]

I love having Rose in the vids. Does she have her own channel?

[@winterwatson6437]

check the description :)

[@Thom-TRA]

Yes! It’s @spacepeanut

[@spacepeanut]

@@zakeriad tyyyyyy and yuppppp but it's very small, only like three vids from like 2 years ago maybe i'll make more who knows

[@history_leisure]

"Good-bye Michelle, it's hard to die" lyrics from a song from 1974, and very fitting of the Silverliner IV's these days

[@JamesKubajak-c1i]

Thanks, Thom. That's a nice informative video.🤓

[@afieldsy8236]

I like to “trolley car” feeling of this line too. And I have a soft spot for its Welsh heritage. Bala situated in Snowdonia (Eryri) national park in north Wales. Cynwyd ❤.

[@johnfriel-uj2zs]

Oustanding Video As Usual . SEPTA Is Awesome. Senior Citizens Ride Free😊 😊 Thanks 😊

[@larrykuenning5754]

My late wife grew up in Cynwyd and had a lasting love for the Barmouth station, which was the closest to her childhood home. In the late 1980s, after the station was closed but before the tracks were removed, she took me to visit it. After the tracks were gone she wrote a ghost story about a ghost train running on the ghost tracks.

[@Thom-TRA]

I’d love to read that story!

[@larrykuenning5754]

@@Thom-TRA I can send a printed copy if you give me your postal address. I'm repeating this in an e-mail so you can reply privately.

[@larrykuenning5754]

@@Thom-TRA I'll send a printed copy if you want one: see your email.

[@larrykuenning5754]

Did you get my email? I sent it to the address shown in your channel info. The idea was that you could reply with your postal address so I could mail the copy.

[@Thom-TRA]

@@larrykuenning5754 I will check it soon! I have been traveling this weekend and haven’t had much service. Sorry!

[@JustinHandberry]

It use to go to ivy ridge but they chose not to fix the bridge that goes over the Schuylkill river so they cut service back to cynwyd

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks for summarizing the video, I guess?

[@JustinHandberry-zu4ch]

No problem love your videos

[@DadgeCity]

Perfectly done

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks!

[@Transit_Biker]

Doylestown line can get single cars or married pairs occasionally. Usually these are for the early AM outbound & are staged on the platform track near the bumper.

[@Thom-TRA]

Interesting

[@Transit_Biker]

@@Thom-TRA Yeah! I used to go there a few times a week via train or bus & when I left towards the late afternoon or early evening, they would always start positioning the equipment for the next morning because it’s mostly single track between the yard/station & Lansdale yard. The former Reading half of the system is full of quirks like that. Reminds me of Stoney Creek branch, which might do for a good video topic at some point.

[@redarrow5591]

The benefits of having a all Multiple Unit system.... Run 6 car trains during the rush, get to a end of the line, cut two or three cars by the existing crew, run with that shortened train during the day with the manipulations putting that consist back to pick up those dropped cars, and you got 6 back for the afternoon rush. SEPTA was notorious for using the Airport, Chestnut Hill East and West, Media, and Warminster for those mid day cuts. Trenton still has two runs that combine into one return at night.

[@ol1ver49]

Odd to see stations named after places in Wales on the Wrexham-Barmouth line, though out of order. Bala is a town on the route and Cynwyd is a village, actually pronounced Cunwid. The line is closed except for the first section from Wrexham to Ruabon, a main line, and a short section from Morfa Mawddach to Barmouth at the other end, part of the Cambrian Coast line. However two heritage rainways use part of the route. There's a narrow-gauge line from Bala Junction to Llanuwchllyn along the lake - there's a proposal to extend this to Bala Town. And there's a standard gauge line from Llangollen to Corwen - my sister's family run the Station Campsite at Carrog station. Sections of the this line have also been converted to footpaths or cycleways - there's one from Morfa Mawddach to Dolgellau, and another from Corwen to.... Cynwyd!

[@dangelohartley5977]

Not gonna lie, it's giving me CTA's Yellow Line vibes from how short it is

[@jkang7265]

Ah I just commented the same before I saw your comment! And you could also point out the former overhead wires on the Yellow Line as as well as its status as the rump of the much longer interurban. At least it runs much more quickly haha

[@Thom-TRA]

Exactly!

[@Cupertinorail]

Wow a commuter line shorter than WES! The Cynwyd line looks like an introverted person's dream train.

[@albertcarello619]

I think the catenary is left in place in case of possible revival of service and hopefully.

[@paulcastillo1310]

Great video

[@Blank00]

I wonder if Septa will have a special Silverliner IV replacement just for this line, consisting of one car units

[@Thom-TRA]

I was wondering the same thing today.

[@johnchastain5657]

Ever ride the trolleys in the MD trolley museum? Wafting through the woods in those vintage cars.... it feels positively Twilight-Zoney!

[@chrisbrown8748]

I enjoyed this video and learned some stuff about my city👍🏽👍🏽

[@Thom-TRA]

That’s awesome!

[@ChrisFisher-hz5cy]

CTA Skokie Swift Yellow line......you can see the right-of-way north of Dempster that used to go to Milwaukee

[@thejokab]

i like your videos what do you think about adding more maps? the vid made me look up the route

[@Thom-TRA]

This video is full of maps

[@londonwhaley8690]

I enjoyed that video👍👍

[@Thom-TRA]

I'm glad!

[@tylerkochman1007]

1:12 is the shortest the Princeton Dinky?

[@Blank00]

3:56

[@officialmcdeath]

So looking at the timetables, one must conclude that staffing is provisioned from marginal time left over from other services \m/

[@Thom-TRA]

Probably. It’s a miracle they run it at all.

[@97nelsn]

The Cynwyd line should be converted to a trolley or be included as part of a subway expansion. I’m puzzled a city like Philadelphia only has 2 subway lines when it should have more. At least I got around Philly and saw Porter Robinson at The Mann Pavilion using Septa buses and trains.

[@Thom-TRA]

I think it could be integrated into the trolley network quite nicely

[@thebionicpig]

That was pretty cool!!

[@Thom-TRA]

Thanks!

[@potatoesarefood6657]

Is it really a "train" if its just one car? 😄

[@Thom-TRA]

To me wheels on rails is all that really matters

[@swedneck]

railbus!

[@woodalexander]

Legally, yes, each EMU is a locomotive and is regulated by the FRA as such. A train consists of one or more locomotive(s) and may contain additional cars. So a single locomotive as in this case moving is considered a train.

[@hermanhuang9048]

Goedenavond Thom, what are the shortest European commuter lines that you've been on, and do you have videos? I don't know if it's considered a commuter line, but I once rode the branch between Windsor & Eton Center to Slough, no intermediate stops.

[@Thom-TRA]

The branches on the Rotterdam metro are very short (not a commuter line, I know). In Japan I’ve been on the Seibu Toshima, Yūrakuchō, Sayama lines. The Mb branch of the Marunouchi line. The Shibayama railway line.

[@FilmCrateMedia]

The PRR Schuylkill Valley Division (later reduced to Schuylkill Branch) tied in with the Lehigh Valley at Delano Jct. just outside New Boston, Pa (a few miles above Pottsville). The Pennsy, along with its regional trains, ran 2 named trains on the branch, "The Mountaineer" and "The Anthracite Express". The 2 named trains ran between Philly and Wilkes-Barre using trackage rights on the Valley to Tomhicken where they connected back to the PRR. They ran each train daily in each direction, excluding Sundays. The Mountaineer was removed from service in 1934, and the Anthracite Express was terminated in 1941. Shortly after, regional passenger service was cut back from Pottsville to Reading and passenger service to Reading lasted until October 4, 1953. From there, you pretty much covered it. There are only a few stretches of the Schuylkill Branch still active. This first 2.1-mile section, 52nd St to Cynwyd (also the only ridable surviving section), then Oaks to Phoenixville (3.7-mile section of the former NS Devon Branch - long out of service, but crossings are still listed as "active" on the FRA website), next is the NS Pottstown Industrial track (about 2.5 miles), then a short section in Birdsboro (about 3 miles), then Temple to Hamburg (the longest surviving section at about 12.8 miles), and the final surviving section in Auburn (about 1.3 miles). In total, only about 25.4 miles of railroad remain of the once 135-mile right-of-way.

[@lagcom]

Not only is it the shortest, its name looks like a massive typo

[@Thom-TRA]

It looks like a drug name tbh

[@guyfaux3978]

Essentially this is no different in concept from the Norristown Hi-Speed Line, i.e., an "orphan" of sorts maintained as a feeder to more heavily-used lines. The difference is only that it uses the same rolling stock as regional rail and can interline with it if SEPTA wanted, e.g., to send a few Cynwyds past CC and down to the Airport, whereas the NHSL has its own unique cars.

[@Thom-TRA]

A Cynwyd line train to the airport would have to turn around in CC

[@guyfaux3978]

@@Thom-TRA I said CC but I was including 30th St. in that description, although strictly speaking CC is only east of the Schuylkill. I meant that if it wasn't going to go to the stub tracks or interline with an old Reading line, then you could divert it to go to the airport, couldn't you? Sorry I wasn't clear.

[@gchsbus]

The Cynwyd Line is a combination of NEED versus NIMBY, SEPTA runs the line where it is nearly useless. For years and years, SEPTA has expressed interest in running the Cynwyd Line hourly, yes hourly as an express route in to Bala Cynwyd in one direction and Fox Chase in the other direction, since both are short line. This would have ran similar to the Airport Line with less cars (usually one or two cars). However, Bala Cynwyd is home of the elites, yuppies, nimbys, and also has a large Jewish population. All four groups have banded together to form that wants to support the Cynwyd Line but also ONLY wants it to run a peak times do it does not break up the "peaceful tranquility" of the area, translation, does not bring "people from Philly" and drugs to the area. So they are hypocritical. I know people in Bala Cynwyd, which is actually Lower Merion Twp, Montgomery County. The locals are afraid if it is ran hourly and connected with Fox Chase, that it will bring homeless people and drug dealers to the area. I can't make this BS up. So therefore, this is why the Cynwyd Line barely runs and is never run in conjunction with the Fox Chase Line. It does not even run on the weekends.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yeah I really hate all the creative arguments people come up with to mask that they just don’t want “undesirables” to show up.

[@mkopin]

As a Bala Cynwyd resident who's heard many people wishing the train ran more frequently, I find it hard to believe the low frequency is because of community wishes rather than that the ridership simply doesn't justify more trips than they're already doing.

[@rikkichunn8856]

You asked why the Cynwyd line is so short. It could be that, beyond Cynwyd, the line essentially duplicates another line which runs on the other side of the river. Seems to be a pattern here. The Pennsylvania Railroad built lines that actively competed with other railroads, perhaps trying to drive them out of business. Of course, just north of Reading lay the anthracite beds, home to a rich lode of hard coal, which burns hotter (important for steel making) and cleaner (important for passenger trains) than ordinary bituminous coal. So, before the anthracite deposits were fully mined, there was another reason for the line northward to Reading. But the anthracite is gone now, and so is the freight business that kept the Pennsylvania Railroad's Reading branch profitable (as well as the Reading Railroad and a half dozen other major regional railroads). Ironically, coal paid for all that railroad electrification centered around Philadelphia. What's left is the beautiful scenery, the quaint suburban communities, and the colorful place names like Cynwyd and Jim Thorpe (which was formerly called Mauch Chunk).

[@BalooUriza]

I recognized Cynwyd as a Welsh word and I gotta say I was surprised to see at Suburban Station literally anything other than a Pacer on that line. And just because I recognized it as Welsh doesn't mean I didn't click on this video largely just to find out how to say it.

[@davidpinckney8868]

Also because it low ridership we got busses that go threw bala cynwnd to 30 st station and center City

[@history_leisure]

Hi Rose (and Thom)

[@Thom-TRA]

Hey

[@juulvlog]

What a cute little thing 😅

[@duploman0003]

Grappig om jou hier in de comments te zien Juliën

[@juulvlog]

@@duploman0003 ik ben overal waar treinen zijn 😆

[@Northern_Idaho]

I find unusually short lines like this, the Chicago and Montreal Yellow lines, Berlin U4, and the Princeton Dinky really fascinating, because they could be longer, but aren’t for whatever reasons. I mentioned my Philadelphia S-Bahn system in a previously video, and I have the Cynwyd Line as S3, running from City Hall station (Suburban but a little east for connections to more subway lines) to Norristown, connecting to the S4 Norristown Line at Manayunk then running local to Elmwood Park in Norristown, while the S4 runs express along this section, then continuing to Reading, PA

[@Cupertinorail]

What is that box car used for at 3:37

[@utubewatcher806]

How many hundreds of thousands of volts are in those catenary wires above the walk path?

[@drdewott9154]

Such an odd line. Honestly if it wasnt for the trolleys using penn trolley gauge, Id almost argue it would be a better choice to convert it to a streetcar line. Maybe extend it back to Manayunk at the same time but the local connectivity and oddballness of this line and its low frequencies really seems like something that deserves better, and having it be a trolley that can then interline with line 10 into the city might be a better fit for the local area, facilitating local trips better and allowing more frequent service.

[@Thom-TRA]

Conversion to trolley line would be a project big enough that would likely justify the conversion of the gauge

[@keithlantz6821]

The bridge is the main reason that it ends at cynwyd.

[@Thom-TRA]

Yep. I said that in the video.

[@mmrw]

Isn’t Denver’s B line commuter rail shorter than this?

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m not sure how these things are measured, but that line is 6.2 miles in total. So .1 miles shorter than the Cynwyd line.

[@mmrw]

@@Thom-TRA oh huh, interesting. I’m also not sure how it’s measured though, because if you measure it by only the branch length or unique length of track I believe it would be shorter, but if you measure the whole thing I guess it’s just above yeah

[@nelsonramos5826]

What 😮 wow😊🎉

[@kanarieparkietje]

Nice video. But I still want to go to Toronto.😊

[@davegallo8166]

Trains to reading would be difficult, most of tracks are gone.

[@Thom-TRA]

As long as ROW exists you’ve already done the first hard part

[@phillyphilly2095]

If I were King of Pennsylvania, I would disconnect the Cynwyd line from the regional rail network, make it part of SEPTA Metro, extend the line from Manayunk to southwest Philly via a 52nd Street subway, and restore the station at 52nd & Lancaster. Of course, the rich folk in Bala Cynwyd would fight such a plan to the death, even if SEPTA had the money to do it.

[@Thom-TRA]

A guy can dream though

[@thetrainhopper8992]

I love a day pass with a ride limit. I thought RTD Denver’s $10 Airport Day pass was a rip off! SEPTA knows how to take the cake I guess.

[@brentrn]

The $13 lets you ride any bus, trolley, subway, or Regional Rail over a huge area going more places than RTD.

[@blacklisted351]

You can also buy an 8 trip standard (not rr) transit pass for septa for $6

[@Thom-TRA]

The only problem was I made 11 trips on it that day 😭 BUT you also get the price of the pass added as fare and that was enough to get me to Wilmington.

[@thetrainhopper8992]

@@brentrn Denver has a service area of 2300 square miles to SEPTA's 2200.... and it has light rail, regional rail and bus services...the Northeast isn't the unchallengeable center of the universe.... The $10 RTD charges covers all modes with no limits on the number of rides.

[@kevinb8881]

Thom, I actually like SEPTA commuter rail better than NJ Transit commuter rail, they have a more unique trackage network!!

[@wooderice64]

I think each has their advantages and disadvantages. NJT has way better rolling stock and stations, but SEPTA has better network integration, and a way better website/app.

[@kevinb8881]

@@wooderice64 That is true!!

[@blacklisted351]

​@@wooderice64Septa seems cheaper too. And I prefer the fare card system though it can sometimes be frustrating. Also, njt isn't 100% electrified, correct?

[@kevinb8881]

@@blacklisted351 That's correct, some NJT trackage is electrified, and all of SEPTA trackage is electrified!!

[@Thom-TRA]

I’m probably in the minority but I don’t like NJT’s MultiLevels

[@davidpinckney8868]

It's a commuter line but to us we don't consider as a commuter line

[@SchneiderGeorge]

Interesting to hear Cynwyd pronounced "KIN-wood". I grew up in South Jersey and we always pronounced it "SIN-wood".

[@duploman0003]

Cynwyd with the k sound is how it would be in Welsh, where the name comes from.

[@Transit_Biker]

Welsh pronunciations are all over this part of Pennsylvania.

[@robertshelton9881]

I've had a free senior pass on SEPTA so long it expired. The day after tomorrow I'm going to their HQ to get it renewed. This program is funded by the profits from the lottery, so keep buying those $2 Powerballs..

[@Thom-TRA]

What a random funding source haha. But glad you’ve been able to use it so much!

[@DanHominem]

So THAT'S how its pronounced...

[@Thom-TRA]

Yep. That’s what I thought too when I Rose told me.

[@SuperDave30]

Cynwyd seems like for short Cynthia what you doing? lol

[@Thom-TRA]

lol good one