Why is the storytelling so bad in Tears of the Kingdom?

Tears of the Kingdom is an incredible game in most areas, but the story is a letdown and - more than that - the way the story is told has some issues.

[@princesscadance197]

Lore: 'Draconofication cannot be reversed! You will lose everything about yourself if you go through with it!' Ending: 'lul lets reverse this draconofication'

[@DEBUGMODE]

It always sucks when a story lies to you about the stakes like that. Changing the rules without sufficient explanation or sacrifice makes it feel like you can't trust the storyteller.

[@danjo2080]

Well idk if the rules really change as much as usage of the full Tri-Force can supercede all else.

[@paulrance5445]

@@DEBUGMODE It didn’t lie, there was no *known* way of reversing it. Mineru didn’t know that Recall could undo Draconification, hell not even Ganondorf (who somehow knew about draconification in the first place) knew. Though I do hate when something is explicitly said to be irreversible, and then it gets reversed seconds later anyway. *Cough cough* Zelda becoming dragon *Cough cough*

[@jasonnewbery]

@@DEBUGMODEits all for a cheap “oh shit” moment. Literally HATE death and other reversals like this because it literally feels like a slap in the face

[@j.p6815]

At least from what I understood, draconification was irreversible because you lost your own essence, and Mineru didn't see a way out of it since each person's essence is different. However, in Zelda's case, the essence of her being, as we can see in the reflection of the power of the secret stones, projected Sonia's time power and Rauru's light power. That's why these two channeled these aspects of Zelda's being they possessed through Link, to restore Zelda's essence and bring her back to normal.

[@jasonnewbery]

My biggest problem with the story BY FAR was the exact same cutscene after defeating the temples. I was honestly SHOCKED when i got through my third one and realized what was happening. Like HOW does that happen. At least change like 1 thing at LEAST. And i love this game

[@clonetrooper2003]

I vehemently disagree. I think Rauru and Sonia, who are bland af, are the biggest problem. They are so bad that I literally cheer whenever I remember the cutscene of Sonia dying

[@clonetrooper2003]

Dont get me wrong I dont like the duplicate cutscenes either but the poorly executed characters and god awful ending are worse

[@LaSneky]

​@@clonetrooper2003HOW 😭

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@LaSneky what do you mean by how?

[@LaSneky]

@@clonetrooper2003 sonia is so sweet and caring and wise and rauru is like, idk silly LMAO, I'd call the sages from the past bland but certainly not sonia and rauru

[@antoniotorres1674]

I could actually defend BOTW storytelling... I really liked it as a concept. With TOTK I get more frustrated the more I think about it.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Ding ding ding. This ☝️

[@kingkrysen]

Agree TOTK is dogshit

[@scubasteve2189]

The only “flaw” with BOTW’s story is the fact that it’s broken up into memories that can be out of order,so they are confusing. In my opinion, this isn’t actually a problem at all. I enjoyed piecing it together bit by bit. And I actually LOVE the story of BOTW.

[@scubasteve2189]

Also, by the time you get to the end of BOTW you are ready to give Ganon an epic beat down to avenge your fallen friends and all the poor victims of Hyrule. By the time I got the end of TOTK…I just wanted it to be over so I could go play something else. 🤦🏻‍♂️ I didn’t care about the characters and Hyrule was now boring because it was the exact same map and locations I had already experienced before.

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@scubasteve2189 the only characters i gave a shit about other than the cast from BOTW were mattison and yona. Every other character in the game was either hateable (like the stable trotters) or forgettable and ugly like Mineru

[@MachoPeludo5000]

Nintendo really needs to hire creative story writers

[@therealjaystone2344]

Miyamoto hates story

[@mkjjoe]

@@therealjaystone2344 Miyamoto isn't really involved with Zelda anymore, though Aonuma and Fujibayashi continued this pretty detached take on story

[@Hysteria98]

Or just start giving a shit about stories/continuity in general. They rarely ever have.

[@sniper8560]

True

[@FireFury190]

Get some of the guys from Monolithsoft. They already help develop the game. Grab some of their writers. Imagine a Zelda story in the vain of Xenogears/Xenoblade. Where an old incarnation of Link ends up being a major villain to fight the current incarnation. Doing a completely new take on Dark Link.

[@burnerdaughter]

Some of the issues are so weird, too. Like--it made sense in Botw how you could stumble across the memories in random order, first because Link's memories don't inform the game play, they just deepen the emotion, and second because the memories by design were tied to specific areas. Whereas the devs COULD have let you progress through the reveal of Zelda's more consequential story by unlocking her cutscenes in chronological order no matter which glyph you visited first--but they just didn't? Why not?

[@clonetrooper2003]

Because the devs went out of there to completely misunderstand why the memories in BOTW worked in the first place

[@hyronvalkinson1749]

Imagine each sage playing a different role in Ganondorf's life. I could see the Gerudo feeling betrayed by this king they raised, possibly even guilty for feeding his ego. The Rito could have played a role as creating a holy knife of some sort that Ganondorf uses to kill Sonia with. The Zora may be the ones to tell Rauru how he can stop Ganondorf for millenia. Maybe the Gorons vanquished the demons and are horrified by Ganondorf becoming a Demon King himself. Then that fight scene plays out differently to each of them, with linearity not being important whatsoever.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Hey look! Ideas!! That's all I'm asking for. If they did something like you suggest, a lot of my complaints vanish (depending on execution, I guess).

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@DEBUGMODE plus the ancient heroes aspect could have been rauru himself!

[@hyronvalkinson1749]

@@DEBUGMODE I imagine a really cool backstory with a young Ganondorf, each sage reflecting on a certain dark traits of Ganondorf spawning into the monster we know. The Gerudo sage would be proud of Ganondorf's heroism and strength, hoping that by sending him to different sages he'd get rid of his pride instead of furthering his evil intentions. He successfully fooled her and became king as a result. In battle against the sages, she was appalled that he turned his back on his own people to obtain power for himself. The Rito sage would be surprised at how Ganondorf is trustworthy and a skilled weaponsmaster, not realizing that Ganondorf plays the long-con and only made the Ritos' weapons stronger so he could steal their advanced weaponry to kill Sonia with (she's magically protected). In battle against the sages, he was surprised that all of his holy weapons along with the secret stones did nothing against the monster of a man. The Zora sage would unsettle Ganondorf with his long lifespan (he wants to become immortal), and would be the only sage to heed Zelda's warnings and create a backup plan for Rauru that worked out in the end. Ganondorf's jealousy was hidden to the other Zoras, and while the Zora sage thought he was simply immature, she took it as a personal flaw rather than an accurate observation. In battle against the sages, she was surprised at the amount of sheer evil he had as she only suspected he hid slightly nefarious intentions, not Demon-King level evil. The Goron would be too trusting and be ecstatic that the warlock-scholar took such an interest into their protections surrounding the Demon Vault under Death Mountain. Their only concern was Ganondorf failing to back down despite being overheated, they took it as perseverance but Ganondorf took it as a lesson that he was too weak and needed to vanquish that weakness by all means necessary.

[@chrischl8003]

​@@hyronvalkinson1749I absolutley love your ideas

[@statelyelms]

I like this a lot. Gives a tone of betrayal. I can see the scenes where each tribe confronts Ganondorf on their own, with cries of "Traitor!" before getting swept aside by this even more powerful Ganondorf. The Gerudo scene could've been incredibly powerful, since he was raised there.. it could have been heartwrenching.

[@qqutc]

for the dragon tears, they could have played in in order despite different locations - for example, if you go to location 5 it will still play in order by which cutsences you got so far if that makes sense!

[@clonetrooper2003]

No shit, especially since NONE of the tesrs’ locations have ANY relation to their memories, which is BS.

[@Jadder88z]

Such a dumb decision by Nintendo. I learned about Zelda being a dragon early in the game, then had to watch scenes questioning Zelda's location for the rest of the game. 10/10 game in many regards, 3/10 in story telling. Indie developers do better with a fraction of the budget.

[@mbii7667]

@@Jadder88z yeah I found out about Zelda really early on too

[@LilacMonarch]

@@Jadder88z and after you watch all the tears, Link doesn't even say anything about it to anyone. Everyone's still like 'duhhh is that puppet Zorlda??" like there's not even alternate dialog or anything

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

For Zelda turning into a dragon, I would hate for her to stay a dragon but I also suggested somewhere else to include four endings dictated by whether or not you speedrun the game or actually take the time to do the story quest: 1. The 1st ending, we have the worst where Zelda remains a dragon, and the 'Find Princess Zelda' Quest remains uncompleted. This ending is achieved by essentially speedrunning without taking any time to actually complete the main story or gather any sages. 2. The 2nd ending, is the second worst where we complete the Dragon Tears Quest and gather the Sages but don't speak to Impa at Lookout Landing or complete Sonia and Rauru's Temples (More on that in a bit). In this ending, Link manages to partially heal Zelda through sheer force of will and recall, but since he's by himself, Zelda is reduced to a half-dragon, half-Hylian amnesiac with no memory of her friends, family, or Link. 3. The 3rd ending is actually two technically, but they are only unlocked after Dragon's Tears Quest is completed and all the sages are gathered. In this ending, talk to Impa and she will tell you her findings about a Temple of Light in the Depths and a Temple of Time in the Skies. With the former, we traverse the Depths until we come across an Ancient Zonai Temple that we have to light up to proceed; we eventually come across Rauru's spirit again, where he apologizes to Link, saying he had no idea that Zelda would actually go through with the Draconification but promises to assist him if he can though he's not sure if they'll be able to reverse it. On the other side, we have the Temple of Time where we must use both Temple of Times (the one on the ground and the one in the Sky ala Spirit Temple) to proceed using Recall. In the end, we meet the spirit of Queen Sonia who expresses delight at finally being able to meet Link and she gives her impression on all of this before saying that if anyone can save Zelda, it's Link. However, if you only do one of these temples, then you'll be stuck with one of two endings. The first is half-draconified Zelda, where you only do the Temple of Light and the second is amnesiac but fully Hylian Zelda if you do the Temple of Time. 4. If you do all the Temples and Dragon's Tears, you get the best and fourth ending which is just the one you see in the game.

[@clonetrooper2003]

While ending 2 disturbs me, at least you provided a fix for this

[@mbii7667]

I actually kinda dig this overall idea

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@mbii7667 me too

[@krishvids608]

Alternative endings is such a cool idea that I’d love to have seen implemented… oh well

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@krishvids608 because nintendo are anti art morons

[@glasspencil]

Sonia and Rauru were so boring to me, and that sucks because part of the reason BotW’s memories were so enjoyable were because of the champions. They all had their unique interactions with Link, as you said, but they also had their own unique takes on the Calamity which were shaped by their lives and beliefs. Sonia and Rauru though? Neither of them offered a unique perspective or showed any insight into their character or what they believed. Both characters can be summed up as “Help Zelda. Serve kingdom.” And Zelda shares this sentiment too, leading to very few intriguing conversations between the three. It isn’t until Ganondorf kills Sonia that we see a spark of deviation from Rauru. Considering the prevalent theme of Sacrifice in the cutscenes of the past, I feel that they should have set up Rauru’s character to be more relevant to that theme. Rauru is called “arrogant” by Ganondorf as a way to taunt him, but we never see any real arrogance displayed by him, giving the insult little weight. The only thing Rauru does wrong is make a miscalculation on Ganondorf. I feel that Rauru’s arrogance should’ve been more prevalent in the cutscenes as Hyrule’s king and contrast that with Zelda who is also Hyrule’s ruler in her time. If I am correct, there is a stone pillar with ancient text in TotK that states how Rauru would “waive his duties as king in favor of hunting” and that Queen Sonia would need to reel him in. Why not bring this to the forefront and have Zelda react to this? You could have Zelda see a version of her younger self in Rauru as one who tries to avoid their royal duty in favor or their personal interests. Zelda though would have the understanding and experience not to berate Rauru like her father did. In response, Rauru could ignore or rebuke Zelda, pointing out the peace that has resulted from his rule, displaying his arrogance. In addition, Rauru could also use Zelda’s young age as a sign of her inexperience, so what good would her counsel be? And, if you wanted to, you could add in that he is a Zonai, and that a higher being would just know better. This scene could be followed up by the Recall training session between Zelda and Sonia. Zelda can bring her concerns of Rauru to Sonia, the queen, who then can provide insight into Rauru’s positives and why she married him and how she assists Rauru in his affairs with her wisdom and humility. If possible, it would also be beneficial to show how much Sonia means to Rauru in this scene or the previous one. The assertion of Rauru’s arrogance sets up his failure as the kingdom falls apart right under him as Ganondorf seizes power and kills his queen. Realizing what must be done, the story can play out mostly as it did for the rest with a little more self reflection on Rauru’s part. Rauru sacrifices his life for his kingdom to restore the peace that he carelessly neglected. This then would be followed up by Zelda doing her part by sacrificing herself for her own kingdom as well as her knight. If I needed to replace some memories, I would get rid of the Gerudo Assault and place the hunting scene there and rework the Zelda and Sonia memory to talk more of Rauru’s rule and provide insight into Sonia’s character and beliefs. As for your video, I appreciate you along with a few other people being willing to express your disappointment for something in a widely acclaimed game. I too loved the game, but considering the cinematic trailer given to us with Mummy Ganondorf, I had higher expectations for the story.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Excellent points! There are so many little things they could have done to help flesh out these characters and make the story more resonant. If Rauru's arrogance had been highlighted as the reason for their downfall, it would have added a lot more weight and tragedy to his eventual sacrifice. Lending his magic to Link would have the subtext of him helping to right his own wrongs and not just being a generic magical helper/justification for the new mechanics.

[@paulrance5445]

I must say- Sonia and Rauru were most likely meant to be the parents Zelda never had. (her dad was santa who forgot what his job was, and her mother had a mental shutdown and died) Also getting rid of Gerudo Assault is a crime punishable by Goro Akechi murdering you. That memory is our first insight into Ganondorf’s plan to take Hyrule. The end of it being when he sees Rauru’s secret stone. Can you not grasp the concept of simply adding new memories on top of the ones we have?

[@glasspencil]

@paulrance5445 I do not doubt that Sonia and Rauru were meant to be the parents that Zelda never had. However, I think that role was already filled by Urbosa in BotW (and more effectively). However, my point is that the pair are not interesting. My wall of text was merely a suggestion on how to fix that. Highlight a trait that could bounce off the other two to create conversation and help them stand out from each other. Now, as for adding memories, I was trying to stick within the limitations Nintendo set, which is 11 (12) cutscenes corresponding with the tears. I do not know what the production timeline was like for the cinematic animators, so I’m operating under the assumption that that’s all they could allow for. As such, one memory needed to go in order to accommodate my changes. The reason I chose the Gerudo Assault was because I believed that you could showcase Ganondorf’s intentions well enough within the Vow of Fealty memory with a few tweaks to the dialogue, having Ganondorf mention the secret stones being a great aid to Rauru’s rule. Visual cues are also a fundamental tool. In the original, we are given shots of Ganondorf focusing on the secret stones. An added emphasis through shot progression can help. Like in OoT, the audience I feel would be able to understand Ganondorf’s intentions adequately, especially with Zelda’s concern. However, you still bring up a fair point, that being the Gerudo Assault zeroes in on what Ganondorf is going for: the secret stone. When the Vow of Fealty happens, the audience knows what he is interested in because of that memory. But more importantly, the audience is given a glimpse of the immense power granted by the secret stone. This way, there is no weird power contrast between Zelda moving things and Ganondorf’s gloom explosion. With that in mind, perhaps it is better to instead combine Where Am I and An Unfamiliar World into one cutscene and get to the point more quickly so as to allow for another memory.

[@clonetrooper2003]

THANK YOU! Finally somebody acknowledges them for the shitty bland characters that they really are! Seriously! I gave more of a shit about Terrako’s fake death un age of calamity than i did when sonia went out like a little bitch in THIS game!

[@clonetrooper2003]

Also you managed to fix Rauru’s character in a way that tied in with the lore if the actuual game? #GigachadMove the only thing i would like to add is that in your version, it would be great if we got Jonathan Potts and Cynthia Preston to voice Rauru and Sonia, who, in case you are unaware, voiced Link and Zelda in the 1989 DIC Zelda Animated Series. Hell, maybe Ganon’s voice actor from the show could cameo as Ganondorf’s raspy corpse voice?

[@cannoliwavestudios2817]

“He was our chief before he changed. His obsession with power turned him into a monster” The amount this line could have implied is INSANE! It calls into question what Ganondorf’s relationship with the Gerudo was and I was so interested! We’re they on board with everything or did they stop following him at a point? Does this sage view him in a more sympathetic way or the opposite being a member of her tribe? And then they didn’t tell me :( I wish I got more unique information in these cutscenes

[@clonetrooper2003]

This game’s story is the definition of missed opportunities That and how not to to write a sequel

[@mel9403]

I could be wrong but if this helps OOT has some insight in their relationship. it was either implied or stated in the game that Ganondorf was raised to be king since male Gerudo are born every 100 years or so, but because of Ganondorfs greed for power and rule they ended up banishing males from the gerudo region entirely because of him. (Even though in OOT he still held power over them while trying to take over hyrule if my memory serves me correct). I know OOT and TOTK are probably not even close in the timeline so If I’m wrong I’m wrong lmao, but I’m still surprised they didn’t include anything like that in the cutscenes since I’d say it’s pretty important, especially if people who played TOTK may not have not played OOT and why the Gerudo do not allow males.

[@vbsenthusiast]

i'm so glad that you mentioned how a lot of what was important in botw (the sheikah, divine beasts, etc.) was tossed aside in totk! it's one of my biggest problems with the game (other than that a lot of the story was pretty lackluster). it's like "hey, we know these elements were crucial in the last game, but we're going to erase them and focus on a race that was barely in botw, and also give it barely any screentime! oh, and no one remembers the events of botw as well!" totk's gameplay is better, but botw was better in terms of story imo

[@paulrance5445]

“no one remembers the events of botw as well!” Is that really true? All the major characters remember. It’s only the unimportant side characters (including Hestu and Beedle) that don’t.

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@paulrance5445 they barely mention it as if it is a footnote however. That is the problem

[@markanthony7191]

They took apart all the sheika technology conidering how the malice could controll it. If i was zelda id get rid of it to

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@markanthony7191 yesh but they should kept some

[@Kaisona2017]

I think some of the tech was repurposed to make the new, inferior Purah Tech. Still doesn’t explain how there’s not even a trace of Ancient Sheikah Tech remaining.

[@cato3277]

I can't believe I still enjoyed BoTW more than ToTK. For all the talk of a darker Zelda story or whatever, this ended up being the most lackadaisical and lighthearted story out of the core 3D Zelda games thus far. Even BoTW had much more melancholic and well written story elements that feel much more evocative of what Zelda is really about, and while I understand some criticism towards the nonlinear story I found it way more engaging than what we got here.

[@DEBUGMODE]

It's true. I expected a darker story given the opening and the marketing. Mummy Ganondorf is a pretty cool design. He's really intimidating, but that wasn't ever felt in the gameplay. I was expecting him to lead an army on the surface at some point or do something bold and interesting that altered the state of the story or the world.

[@cato3277]

@@DEBUGMODE I've traded ideas with others on improving Ganondorf in gameplay, because in totk he really just feels like a human Calamity Ganon. One idea I had was he could be a surprise Temple boss hellbent on slowing your progress. Another is, as you said, having him lead a siege like he did in the dragon tears cutscene.

[@azatheeverchosen7615]

Sadly it seems as tho the "darker Zelda story" was a misinterpretation of of Mr. Aonuma's words. Basically, when he spoke them, he was *actually* referring to how the trailer at the time of when he said the words was darker than the final intended tone of the game would end up being. The collective internet simply never caught this and ran with the original interpretation till Tears came out and disappointed them.

[@tailsprowerfan2729]

@@DEBUGMODEyeah we where tricked

[@amandaslough125]

@@azatheeverchosen7615 They didn't need his words. The trailer itself was a darker tone, and after BotW, we were due for a darker game again. Having a serious story would've helped this game tremendously.

[@awkwardsquirtle]

I found out Zelda was the Light Dragon way too soon than I should and it ruined the storytelling because i thought Zelda was gonna die in the past. I knew that she was gonna change back once i found out she was a dragon. Kind of ruined the game for me

[@TaintedSoulSilver]

Honestly there was one thing that struck me and gave me chills. After confronting puppet Zelda, "she" is removed from the blood moon cutscene going forward. The silence of that first cutscene hits so hard. You realize that the continuity we got from the first game was merely a facade. A bizarre combination of meta and lore that somehow felt comforting and was unceremoniously taken away. Not realizing the consequence of the story progression on this cutscene only serves to add to the hauting atmosphere.

[@TaintedSoulSilver]

The ganon confrontation was incredible. We aren't just told that he was a hardened warrior and master of any weapon. We are shown in the battle as he whips out the same skills we have spent two games honing. That first parry shocked me to the point where he got additional damage on me. It was a moment that really pulled me into the scenario. On top of the meta busting health bar (the second time something like this occurs in relation to him) it felt like a true battle.

[@TaintedSoulSilver]

The draconification of Zelda followed me all throughout the game as soon as I learned of it. It succeeded in gaining the impact required to float around in my mind as I adventured. The added bonus of actually being able to encounter her during her sky travels makes it even more real. You're not allowed to forget and it is much improved on the scant presence of Zelda in the first game imo.

[@TaintedSoulSilver]

Everything else, though? Man.. I'm so disappointed. I expected more of a presence from a retired impa, more personality from a promoted paya, more involvement from Purah. Being allowed into gerudo town proper as a voe felt cheap and entirely unearned. Listening to seemingly clever and intelligent characters simply brush off obviously disturbing behavior from the Zelda puppet. Dungeons that were small, bland, and repetitive. Puzzles and challenges that were completely trivialized by the new building system. I really could go on but the fact is that while the bits I enjoyed were incredible... I was disappointed so many times in between that I was often left wondering if I'd even experience something worthwhile again. At least the Yiga questline helped boost my morale.

[@ZeoViolet]

Mineru's cutscene does show the actual sealing event depicting Rauru binding Ganondorf....which is kinda important. It shows how stupid Rauru was to even mention Link's name. On the other hand, Raisindorf's disappointment at Link being an alleged weakling when he woke up made him so upset he spends the game sulking while you have plenty of time to screw around Hyrule doing whatever you want. XD

[@Takejiro24]

Firstly, "Raisindorf" ☠️ Secondly, the idea of Ganon sulking in his throne room reminds me of Aku from Samurai Jack, I- ☠️

[@Sarah_H]

Raisindorf having a crisis like Megamind did like "ok I won but there's no one to oppose me now, this blows"

[@skonataofawakening]

I think Majora's Mask has the most compelling 'narrative' because it is not just one story from start to finish. It is a conglomeration of various tales of grief from all the residents of Termina that makes the world (and game) that much more compelling. You care for these people because you get to know them so well over a short span of three days. Modern Zelda (and a lot of open world games in general) miss this piece of the puzzle. I'd love to see it a bit more. To be honest, I would have much rather played through Zelda's journey rather than (or alongside) Link's. Great video, absolutely hit on a lot of what I was feeling when the game started to feel a bit more like a chore towards the end of my playthrough.

[@chrischl8003]

It's also not like it can't be done like this in an open world game. Ghost of Tsushima was a great game that have you meet characters and learn more about them as you proceed in your quest. This also flows right into the Main Story.

[@zalamazu]

I was just about to comment something like this. TOTK and MM both have many side quests for NPCs, but what makes MM’s so much better is how every character’s side quests feels like a butterfly effect to another one. You can mess up one side quest slightly and it might lead to another side quest… or ruin your chances to complete the one you’re trying to do. TOTK/BOTW’s only interesting side quest is maybe the one about Dorian but that’s about it. MM’s story (or stories) deal with a lot of mature themes but they don’t make the audience feel stupid because it’s E-rated. For example, in BOTW there is a bar in Gerudo Town and it’s very on the nose with how it perceives alcohol. There’s mostly just dialogue making fun at Link for being to young to drink and a quest where a near fainted character suddenly gets up and runs to the bar when she hears they can make Noble Pursuit. However in MM they don’t make it so it seems like they’re saying “look this is meant to represent alcohol haha alcoholics are funny” but it feels more realistic. The Gorman Leader is essentially trying to drink himself to death upon hearing the news that his performance is canceled. They don’t outright tell you that but you can understand it from the character’s actions. The bar feels much more like a bar (instead of just some angsty girls talking about a secret club all day) due to the times it’s opened, the events, the people who come in, etc. And even though the drinks are labeled as milk, you can understand what’s going on without the game making fun of you for not understanding. It’s little things like that that make me take Majora’s Mask seriously even though it’s rated E, which is what Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom fail to do.

[@chrischl8003]

@@zalamazu Completely agreed. Majora's Mask proves that interesting sidequests/characters can be done in Zelda. It also reminds me of another problem I have with botw/totk. That being the desings of the NPCs. In other Zelda games the NPCs have such weird and in some case ugly designs that gives them already much more presence and individuality even if the side quest related to them wasn't great. In botw and totk the NPCs look just boring. Can't remember a single NPC aside from more important ones like Impa just for example. I heard somewhere they are based on Miis somehow and I think this is actually Part of the problem.

[@niall027]

Demon King? Secret Stones?

[@paulrance5445]

“But what does this have to do with Shulk?”

[@stuffz1757]

It's not just a bad story it's incoherent in terms of long standing lore. It's really infuriating because it has a lot of cool ideas but no, they sacrificed all of it for their gameplay first mentality

[@clonetrooper2003]

No kidding, the curscene before sonia’s death is some awful tea pwrty one.

[@justinstewart9145]

A problem he didn't mention, is how you can do major story elements out of order, which messes up the events of the memory narrative. You can even get the master sword early by accident! It baffles me how Nintendo had years to work on the game, but they didnt once think, "Maybe we should lock certain events in a specific way, so that players are not spoiled".

[@clonetrooper2003]

IKR

[@WhyUHaf2BeMad]

literally spot on with this

[@mbii7667]

Yup I got it early too

[@DiegoRiser]

@@mbii7667 Same.

[@rangopistacho6928]

Or just don't add spoiler revealing cutscenes to the master sword

[@patriciomaraver6671]

They were so good when doing twilight princess and skyward sword, I don’t know why they didn’t keep that kind of story telling from botw onward

[@DEBUGMODE]

I always felt like Twilight Princess kind of dropped the ball in the back third. It spends so long at the start building up Link and his village but then none of those characters matter in the last third of the game at all and it just turns into a slightly "darker" Ocarina of Time.

[@kingkrysen]

​@@DEBUGMODETwilight Princess is the GOAT shut up

[@stavrosbegetis2173]

​@@DEBUGMODEAnd the twilight palace and hyrule castle dungeons are vastly underdeveloped compared to earlier dungeons like forest temple and lake bed temple. The back third feels rushed.

[@ShanePZC]

@@stavrosbegetis2173 Not to mention the plot holes like how did Zelda physically come back after she vanished? Why did Zant seal himself in the Twilight Realm if he sees it as an oppressive cage? Why did he condemn his people to torment if he was upset at the oppression his people received?

[@Mungdaal304]

@@stavrosbegetis2173 city in the sky was great. The mansion was great what do you mean ? Arbiters grounds was great as well.

[@tyephan7475]

Honestly, as interesting and heart-wrenching Zelda's section of the story is, I think they could have done much more with her. Even though the skeleton of BOTW's story is the formulaic Link-and-Zelda-versus-Ganon conflict, I still thought it was interesting how they shook things up by making Zelda a more central figure in the story. She’s the one who saves Link’s life using technology that _she_ helped research; she's the one who decides to lock herself into direct combat with Ganon to keep from destroying Hyrule; and she's the one who ultimately seals him away with Link's help. I was disappointed when I realized Zelda's main role in TOTK would basically be to act as an unconscious battery for the Master Sword. The writers had established so much for her; they had shown that she was well-read enough about history to recognize Sonia and Rauru and the Imprisoning War, and they gave her powerful new abilities over light and time, and they showed that she was both willing and able to train her abilities with Sonia - not to mention her interest in technology established in BOTW that would have meshed well with the Zonai technology. None of this ended up mattering because they didn’t let her do anything of narrative consequence other than becoming the Light Dragon. Almost everything else could have happened without her involvement; Ganondorf getting Sonia’s secret stone, Rauru’s sacrifice, the Sages’ vows (especially if they were actual characters who thought for themselves)... None of these events required any of Zelda’s expertise. The only reason she was there was to recharge the Master Sword, which _any_ source of sacred power could have done. The fact that Zelda has no active role in the storyline despite her qualifications feels like such a waste of an interesting character and a downgrade from BOTW. It felt like the writers only gave Zelda her powers so they could contrive reasons to get her out of the way. They gave her time powers somehow strong enough to send her millennia into the distant past, and she never gets to use them for anything meaningful again. They gave her the sacred power to dispel evil and her only role with it is to become a charger for someone else’s sword. This is the same power she used to single-handedly wrestle with the apocalypse for a century before destroying it in a golden nuke of light in BOTW. While I find certain aspects of Zelda’s story in TOTK really cool, I can’t get over the fact that all of it was just another elaborate way of removing her agency from the main plot.

[@kingkrysen]

Completely agree she was the star of the show in the first game and in this one she's a dumb bimbo who's gone for most of the game

[@astralsilverwind5478]

I just didnt like how Nintendo hyped up the Zonai for TOTKs release and threw them away so unremarkably... I wouldve loved to have gotten to know Rauru based on what we did get from him *albeit very little* he and the player would probably have been kindred spirits. plus they also threw away Mineru who had a real chance of surviving this through her powers. How neat would it have been if she chose to stay and help Purah out with teaching the nowadays hylians about things so the Zonai can be accurately studied rather than assumptions 10k old tablets and purah tyring to put together a narrative herself. She had a second chance at life but chose to go anyway which was a huge missed opportunity for the (supposedly futuristic zelda game ive been hearing rumors that aonuma was wanting to make awhile back)

[@Isuream6331]

Mineru was a spirit, so once her lingering regrets, I.e. Ganondorf, were taken care off, she would naturally pass on like the king and champions in BOTW.

[@MikePhantom]

they didn't tho. zelda tubers did.

[@Isuream6331]

@@MikePhantom Yeah, that’s the unfortunate truth about any zonai disappointment, as well as any story disappointment. The only people making the zonai seemed like this super important thing was us, the fans, while Nintendo didn’t care. And I would even go as far to say that a lot of disappointment with the story is ALSO because of us. We all kept hyping this up as some grand end to the curse of Demise, or some Ganondorf redemption, when NOTHING Nintendo did ever indicated that. I think most people need to realise the curse will never be ended as it is Nintendo’s excuse to keep making games

[@astralsilverwind5478]

@@Isuream6331 @MikePhantom Well if you look closely at all the trailers, especially the one from 2019, Link actually manages to catch zelda in the beginning when she fell. This clearly changed later on, but I cant help but feel like we were originally going to have a different story than what was presented to us. Back before the game had a real name and was just dubbed breath of the wild 2. It would make sense if this happened half way through development because theres dialog some of the constructs say to link that simply doesn't make sense and straight up contradicts the story. example, the sky islands didn't start floating until Mineru and Zelda hatched their last minute plan to help link, and Zelda turns into the light dragon. This is after Rauru sacrificed himself and supposedly according to Ganondorf theres only 2 zonai left walking around, now being only Mineru. During the sky diving challenges, the construct tells us lots of Zonai youths used to come to the sky islands to test their mettle to become adults. How is this possible when there is no zonai left and the islands never floated until Mineru was on her deathbed? this and several other contradicting dialogs i have found but cant remember because its been awhile since i beaten and put the game down is why I feel like the story was supposed to be different than what we got and perhaps there was supposed to be more zonai around. but Nintnedo couldnt take out all the contradicting text in time before release. Game is amazing gameplay wise but theres no mistaking that the story is a mess and im talking about its stand alone story. not even about it place in the timeline. Us Lore hunters for ancient civilizations in games are scratching our heads at what the heck is going on with that race and story. Lets not forget the ancient heros aspect too looks like a subspecies of zoani if not just a hybrid between hylian and zonai. but i wont get into that right now unless it wants to be discussed.

[@amandaslough125]

@@astralsilverwind5478 That must explain the "the title will spoil the story" comments from the devs and why it took _so_ long for them to release it. They probably had to rewrite the whole thing (maybe more than once) and they couldn't release the title until they actually got the finalized story direction much closer to actual release.

[@SaiyanZ3]

-The way Ganondorf got Sonia's stone was lame -Rauru keeping Ganondorf close in Memory 6 had the potential to showcase Rauru as smart, but that whole plot point isn't even explored and Ganondorf gets away with the easiest heist in recent memory lol -Fake Zelda plot point could've been more interesting, her being Phantom Ganon was so guessable -Why does Zelda still have her stone when she reverts from being the Light Dragon? I still appreciate the attempt for a more concentrated story here though, I still enjoyed it for what it is, finale was just awesome

[@LinkoftheDepths]

Why doesn't Link tell anyone Zelda is a dragon once he learns?

[@tatocoto6404]

Info have an answer for the stone one and that’s because rauru and Sonia used recall on her basically with link and returned her to her form before she ate the stone so essentially has the memories still they just recalled her body to her original self. I mean that’s the most logical way since Sonia, rauru, and link all have the recall ability.

[@feathersinthewind]

@@LinkoftheDepths Because TOTK is allergic to linearity and has to pretend you might have not done anything beforehand in every single quest It's honestly the most baffling choice to me that the geoglyphs actually made it into the end product without anyone ever going "hey, maybe the player shouldn't be able to solve the whole mystery before they have even started the main quest ?", or without planning a way to make those reveals affect litterally anything in the game

[@SaiyanZ3]

@@LinkoftheDepths Yea that was a bit weird tbh, ngl

[@Takejiro24]

​@@LinkoftheDepthsOnly people he's told in my playthrough were Impa and her traveling companion. The most she says about it is that she'll try to find a way to reverse Zelda's condition by reviewing the ancient literature but nothing ever comes of that. Why Link told no one else despite everyone making a great deal about Zelda being missing/causing trouble (especially since Link and the present Sages learn that the Zelda they've been seeing is a puppet of Ganon) is never explained.

[@Segunda_Etapa]

The fact that you could look a the dragon tears out of order which would confuse some people, and that the repetitive story of the imprisoning war from the past sages which was just annoying, as well as Zelda suddenly becoming human after ganon is defeated which is still iffy but if there will always be reincarnations Zelda’s main task which is to restore the master sword and defeat ganon should’ve kept her a dragon for as long as ganon kept reincarnating (but this part could be argued) are my main gripes.

[@-mayari-]

I always skipped the imprisoning war. 😅 I didn't want to listen to the 10,000 year ago bullsh.t again.

[@Segunda_Etapa]

@@-mayari- don’t blame you

[@TVegaC]

the tears are a mess! They should just make memories of zelda with Rauru and Sonia but chilling or something.

[@brantmoon]

Once you tell Impa that Zelda is the dragon (after getting all the memories), she feels the tragedy, but she refuses to give up and hopes to find a way to reverse it. This was the most compelling moment in the story for me. I thought, for sure, that there would be more to it. I thought that once she returned to Kakariko, there'd be a whole additional quest line helping her research possibilities for bringing back Zelda, and that completing this would unlock a secret ending (the post credits cutscene) in which Zelda is brought back. Imagine my disappointment when there was no additional quest, when Zelda is reversed in the main ending REGARDLESS of what you've learned, and that the final secret cutscene is just more 5 sages filler-blather. Nintendo's choices with this story are honestly baffling.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Holy shit. This is almost exactly what I was thinking

[@snix7309]

wanna know something funny After you tell impa that you can find her again in her house and she doesnt even mention anything about the zelda dragon thing she just start joking about Paya

[@thelastwindwaker7948]

The story was especially dumb because it's completely non-linear, but doesn't do anything like set flags for what you've encountered first. By the 3rd time someone hears a voice calling to them, you'd think Link would just let them know what's happening. Instead each one is treated like the first time. Same thing with Zelda. You can find out what happened to her right away, but the game is still constantly "Where is Zelda? Is that her? Let's go find out!" I will say I don't mind her getting changed back at the end, but I mind how quick and clean it is. In Twilight Princess when Ilia loses her memories, it's a whole quest to get them back. I would have preferred something like that, where you have to find a way to change Zelda back. But I feel like that's something that could only be done in a linear game where the end goal isn't "Find Zelda." Can't have her found until right before the credits roll.

[@kingcrimson293]

one thing that really irked me is that despite ToTK being a direct sequel. All sheikah technology and the divine beasts are just gone. No mentions of them whatsoever (except once in Zora's domain). All the shrines also just vanished without a trace.

[@DEBUGMODE]

I figured all that stuff would be missing in TOTK. The fact that basically no one mentions it shows how Nintendo disregards lore and continuity even in direct sequels. If they had gameplay-related ideas for those elements they would have stayed in and been explained.

[@Cheesehead302]

I'm not defending this game; my headcanon for this is that Purah and Zelda salvaged most of the Sheikah take to make the towers and their other tech. That helped me get past that lmfao

[@DEBUGMODE]

@@Cheesehead302 It's a fair assumption since you see the guardian-style arms that grab Link when he first uses the towers. Still, they could have done a lot more to build on what came before. I think none of this would have bothered me if the map was new and we were exploring an entirely different part of the world though.

[@paulrance5445]

@@DEBUGMODE Best thing would be to add a few Guardians to the Depths.

[@Takejiro24]

Just imagine: Guardians infused with Gloom Spawn

[@nickbrix]

I didn’t have has big of an issue as everyone else did, but I could see how badly you can be spoiled if you check the wrong memories. I personally did the four temples and most of the side quests leading up to the reveal of fake Zelda. Then I checked all the memories in order and that gave me such a nice experience with the game. I also have to mention I was looking at tutorials left and right. Mainly because I spent my first 100 hours getting outfits lol

[@billcipher8645]

I got spoiled by the second memory I found-the dagger at Lurelin. Literally every NPC everywhere talks about the pirates at Lurelin so I went there, saw the tear and got it. It basically told me all I need to know

[@MrV705]

​@@billcipher8645literally me. I loved that village in BotW and immediately wanted to free it from monsters so I went there without even doing the first main quest

[@greykamasz656]

My favorite part of the story has to be confronting Puppet Zelda and Phantom Ganon at Hyrule Castle. That Puppet Zelda plot was done well. You hear strange sightings of Zelda and even see her moments before a catastrophe, as if she’s causing it. You also are told about the sage of time who looked exactly like Zelda. That mystery was the best story telling in the game but is easily ruined if you go for the memories first. Stories are linear and can’t be out of order. Edit: I want to pose a question. How could Nintendo improve the story without rewriting it?

[@sIsReal]

I thought it was pretty obvious by at least the second dungeon. Ganondorf is underneath Hyrule Castle and can obviously use his powers to cause havoc without actually doing it himself (phantom ganon and calamity ganon). It would have been better if she actually said anything and didn't just pop up on screen for like 8 seconds in total for each dungeon. It's even worse if you go for the memories like you said. At first I was actually really intrigued when I saw her at the castle, but it quickly disappointed me.

[@sIsReal]

Just imagine a Tyr is actually Odin moment in this game. Now that was done incredibly well and they even still dropped multiple hints throughout the game.

[@DEBUGMODE]

@@sIsReal Spoilers! Haha. Yeah, that was a great twist. It's not about ideas, necessarily. It's about execution. Although this game needed more of both.

[@jasonnewbery]

As i don’t dispute that if you go through the game a certain way the zelda sightings with the memory’s could be awesome. But imo 90 percent of people probably either did the memories before going through the temples. Which I was one of then so I knew the twist and where Zelda was way before the reveal at the castle. Which really kills the impact i think

[@Lester_Houston]

I kind of realized it wasn’t Zelda pretty quickly, but I also did all the memories pretty soon after I found out

[@Adriano991b]

Oh my god, I noticed that the cutscenes after beating the temples were similar, but when played side by side it's really baffling.

[@clonetrooper2003]

No shit

[@randomthoughts0829]

You're absolutely right. Me and one of my friends were absolutely stoked for totk, but we both ended up feeling disappointed by the story. I even said that it felt like 95% of the focus was put on gameplay, and then the last 5% was on lore. I would have much rather seen rauru be an antagonist. Not in a "hes secretly on ganondorfs side" kind of way but in a "neither he and ganondorf are right" kind of way. Think about it. Hes a divine creature that seemingly hailed from the heavens and said "im the ruler of hyrule now, lemme take one of your own as my wife and now we are king and queen." He wants to erase everyone's identity and basically make hyrule one big happy family. Look at the sages! Imagine how insidious it would be if it were hinted at or even outright stated he made sure he and sonia were the only sages that were to be remembered. Maybe mineru tried to stop him behind the scenes, but she was unsuccessful Imagine if after the fight with ganondorf, you fight rauru's ghost. He gets a copy of his right arm back, and now HE has all the sage abilities and control of mineru's construct. And once link kills rauru, only then can zelda come back. Idk im just spitballing😊

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yesh it would explain why rauru is such an ugly looking bastard

[@kingkrysen]

I do wish that there was an opposing group of Zonai in the game it would have made it so much better

[@clonetrooper2003]

Wouldnt have saved rauru and sonia’s terrible characters@@kingkrysen

[@tyranitararmaldo]

2:49 Honestly I felt like there were quite a few things in this game that felt "cheap". Like shortcuts had been taken to get parts done quicker, hell some of the retreads were so blatant I slapped my face. It feels like the majority of work that went into this game actually went into the engine for Ultra-hand and to get it working right. And that made me feel so disappointed with the game. So much hype around it, and with the game feeling like it was going to tell a bigger story...all for much less than the sum of its parts. I too was almost kept going just by things seeming to be building towards something larger...and it just never came. Some of the problems are likely because of how rigidly they stuck to "freedom". If you can go anywhere at any time, you can break the story (and hilariously, you can in TotK to some extent). So what this likely meant on the developers end was that they made the stories for BotW/TotK like this to make them almost optional and irrelevant to gameplay, so players could continue making their cars and gundams without thinking about it. Which is a bit depressing.

[@DEBUGMODE]

I'll give them a lot of credit for putting out a game with some wild mechanics that work incredibly well across a huge game. But structurally, the TotK is overly familiar and that's a little disappointing. I really like the philosophy of letting the player roam free, but I do think they could mix in some linearity and that would help out with the storytelling and maybe satisfy the desire of players who miss the old Zelda design.

[@jslaughter95]

I mean considering in both games you can get to ganon glitch free right out of the tutorial island, I would say the story was absolutely designed to be optional. They likely spent most of their budget on gameplay elements, physics engine etc so the story we’ve heard 800x before, Ganon bad, Zelda in trouble, go save, likely took a backseat

[@tumultuousv]

I mean... there is SOME linearity. After you do the 4 main quests you have a 5th that can't fully be done until that point. Unless you really explore an area that is covered in fog.

[@Snowstorm...]

​@@DEBUGMODEHonestly, I can get over how much I disliked TOTK's story because of how good the mechanics are, but if this is the future of the series then I'm out. BOTW and TOTK were fun but I think Zelda should never come back to it. I don't care if it's something completely new or if they use what they learned from BOTW and TOTK to enhance the classic 2D/3D Zelda formula, but the last thing we need right now is another open world, non-linear Zelda game.

[@asterthehedgehog6861]

While Zelda’s moment is saddening, it’s still really stupid when you forget the struggle she went through in the previous game. She should feel stronger given the revelations she went through in the memories and finally being freed by the end of BotW. She doesn’t seem to use anything she learned or uncovered in the first story. She was rewritten in the worst way. I do want a game that would’ve dived into the history established in BotW. I felt something was up when not even Ganondorf recognized us as the ones who beat him as the Calamity. I honestly think Link and Zelda should’ve time traveled together instead of separating them again.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Good points. More of the ways this failed as a direct sequel, sadly. When I got the mission "Find Zelda" I didn't think it was going to be the game-long "Destroy Ganon" quest equivalent. I thought we were actually gonna find Zelda and she and Link would work together throughout the story instead of keeping her at a distance the entire time like in BotW. My mistake thinking they would do something different and new in that regard. She could have and should have been handled much better both from a writing and gameplay integration standpoint.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yesh they toally ruined her and yunobo’s characters

[@FireFury190]

It feels insulting that Zelda doesn't try to evolve its storytelling despite all the potential it has. While series smaller than it like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade do a far better job at this. I know Nintendo's core development team doesn't work on those games, but they are still Nintendo games. Given how highly regarded Zelda is you'd think they'd punch up the story more while still being very innovative in their gameplay.

[@ausgod538]

They are nintendo games but like you even said yourself, they arent developed by Nintendo itself.

[@haroldNstuff]

2:40 the masks they have resemble the faces of the divine beasts in botw so maybe we can assume that the sages were probably an inspiration to make the divine beasts and the divine beasts were named after them right? Like the sages names could be medoh,ruta, rudania, and naboris, right?

[@DEBUGMODE]

That would have been kind of interesting. They should have put something like that in the game.

[@StarlightNkyra]

We also learn that putting on one of the divine beast masks increases your bond with that race when wearing the helm. (in the description of all 4 helms) So, that's pretty much soft confirmation, and makes me feel better running around wearing a silly chameleon head.

[@BriarBeeBenson]

The Divine beasts were actually named after ancient Zelda sages, just as a nice call back. Ruta for Princess Ruto, Naboris for Nabooru, Rudania for Darunia and those three are from Ocarina of Time. Then because the Rito didn’t exist back then Medoh is named after Medli from Wind Waker. So until we get names for these sages (of which some of them actually have modelled faces under their masks!) I’m doing to be calling them: Ruta, Nabooru, Darunia and Medli

[@paulrance5445]

@@BriarBeeBensonYou will not, in one case. The Rito sage in the ancient past of TotK is male. Medli is not a male name. Call him Medoh instead.

[@paulrance5445]

@@StarlightNkyra The sage of the respective beast’s race will wear the mask of their ancestor. Except for Mineru. When you wear the Zonaite Helm, her construct will have something similar to that on its head.

[@sniper8560]

We already knew rauru’s sacrifice from the start of the game and we barely knew him as a character. They should have let us interact with rauru more and build a relationship between him and link

[@clonetrooper2003]

Exactly, his only main personality came from those god awful unreadable hylian tablets that are impossible to reach

[@mbii7667]

He should have been commenting on the events of the game in spirit form since we're rocking his arm

[@mbii7667]

@@clonetrooper2003 definitely not impossible, I reached a lot of them even before I got the quest to do it (of course I had to go back to them again)

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@mbii7667Oh really? How many hours did THAT take you? Besides, the tablets are useless since they BARELY fix Rauru and Sonia's awful characters

[@mbii7667]

@@clonetrooper2003 not sure how long it took me, I was just exploring around for fun

[@evdestroy4121]

tl;dr we needed another Majora, not yet another Ocarina.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Haha, yeah. That's not a bad summation. Majora is the only game in the series (that I've played) that I appreciate more for the story, presentation, and aesthetics than the gameplay. Weird Zelda is some of the best Zelda.

[@captainrex6484]

My biggest issue with the story was Ganondorf. I was so excited to see him again, especially with the new design. However, I was hoping Nintendo would do more with him and make him complex and nuanced like in WW. I still loved what we got but I wish more was done with him (just my opinion though)

[@clonetrooper2003]

Well, captain, as for me, the biggest problem was the ending: and yes i have a justifiable reason as to why I believe it is terrible and overrated

[@captainrex6484]

​@@clonetrooper2003 understandable trooper. The general and I are willing to hear your reasoning

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@captainrex6484 if you are reading thism know this response is late but here is why the ending is an overrated disaster. Commander: The problems begin right after Dragondorf js destroyed. *First, when we see him get destroyed, there is s giant energy column that is clearly pointing toward the surface. However, there is no crater that results in it. How the hell was Hyrule unscathed by that massive explosion? Unfortunately, it gets worse *We are then transported to some magical realm where we find Sonia and Rauru’s ghosts. Somehow, both of these dumbasses manage to RESTOR LINK’S ARM! Wait! I thought Rauru said Link’s arm was gone forever at the beginning?! They then turn Zelda back into a human with some Recall bullshit even though Draconification is CLEARLY irreversible! *Link and Zelda then fall into a conveniently placed pool with no whiplash and everybody lives happily forever after! Wasn’t this game’s shitty theme about sacrifice?!

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@captainrex6484 We then get a shitty repeat of BOTW’s ending with Zelda telling Link how much she misses excpet this time is boring and lame because Zelda is an awful character in this game. How tf is this game darker than Majora’s mask?! My god this story sucks

[@captainrex6484]

@@clonetrooper2003 fair reasoning

[@adrianamurillo5810]

The sage cutscenes really pissed me off, its the same thing over and over again but I didn't want to skip them cuz I didn't want to miss anything. I think this could be fixed or at least improved if every sage told you a different piece of the story, maybe the zora sage can tell you how Rauru got them all together (since Zora and Hylian royal families have always been close), then maybe the Gerudo sage can tell you more about Ganondorf/the Demon King and then maybe Mineru could piece it all together and there you get the big imprisoning war cutscene, I feel like that'll be better or at least less tedious

[@connie4629]

I think they should have focused a bit more the Garudo and Ganon. We don’t learn much about ganon in totk. When I played through the lightning temple I was disappointed that it was the same cutscene the only difference being one scene! Not to mention the Zonai, Id thought we’d see some lore about them apart from the came down from the clouds to live in hyrule. Why were they goat people? Who exactly created the secret stones and why? Why did the zonai become extinct in the first place?

[@snowbringercult]

kinda feel like you could've said something about the geoglyphs, they might be the biggest problem with the story

[@tyranitararmaldo]

Yeah, that execution is god-awful.

[@minecrafter3448]

What about them is so awful? They capture perfectly what a true open word game is. You have the choice to go wherever you want, whenever you want, but there’s always a “best” way. Whether it be subtle, or blatant. This game has a blatantly intended route, but still gives you the full and complete choice to do them in any order for any reason, at any time.

[@cato3277]

@@minecrafter3448 Right, and that non-sequential story telling is really nice for BoTW where the overarching story is already known, but the details are obscured. Its not so nice for a game where you're actively trying to solve the mystery of Zelda's fate and whereabouts, as it can be spoiled extremely quickly and takes away from the present-day story.

[@minecrafter3448]

@@cato3277 there is literally a clear linear path the game goes out of its way to show you if you want it in order. If you don’t like it, it’s your fault.

[@cato3277]

@@minecrafter3448 alright buddy

[@thrillcollectors]

I was genuinely really annoyed with the fact that after taking hours for each and every temple, the cut scenes were all the same. Like you said, it’s basically insulting to tell us the exact same story 4 times. Like was there not enough budget to just give the heirs their own backstories

[@Giokai]

Something that could have been brilliant but hasn't been used. We know that during the century of Calamity, all of the Shrines and towers suddenly returned to the ground and only returned to the surface after Link activated them again at the beginning of Breath of the Wild. Imagine how cool it would have been if the same had happened in Tears of the Kingdom and maybe by exploring some caves or the depths it would have been possible to see precisely those Shrines and those towers returned to the ground. The story of Tears of the Kingdom could have been much, much more and could have even made the story of Breath of the Wild more fascinating. A game where Purah's tablet sent to the past inspired the Sheikahs with their first inventions and as a result Purah would be inspired by them without knowing that she was actually the first Sheikah inventor. A game where the Sheikah technology after the events of Breath of the Wild would return to the ground and could rarely be seen in caves or depths. A game in which it's actually confirmed that the first hero was indeed a secret descendant of Raul and Soniah. Much more could have been done.

[@Lester_Houston]

People told me that the story was the best legend of Zelda story ever, I finally got the game like a month after release without any spoilers and I was so underwhelmed by the story, the story is my favorite part of any Zelda game. And it’s just not that good in this game, I was also pretty underwhelmed by the dungeons. :(

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yeah I have NO clue wtf those people are smoking. They most likely only played Age of Calamity before the game. This game legit has worse writing than Bendy 2

[@skylarc6063]

I dont get it. The story is super shallow. 90% of the 'story' is the memories. the rest of the 10% is the current time period 'story' which is "ritos are trapped in a blizzard, fix that. Gorons are all high. Fix that. Zora are all in stinky smelly slimy muck. fix that. Gerudo have a zombie apocalypse. fix that. Okay now go make a battlemech and kill ganondorf plz". Thats it.

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@skylarc6063 thats another problem! What made BOTW’s story so GREAT was the worldbuilding filled in the gaps for every last memory and even showed what happened after the Calamity, all while having a BEUAIFUL tragic tone in the overworld. In Trash of the Kingdom, the tone is not only inappropriately happy but the memories are super disconnected from the dungeons and theur god awful duplicate cutscnes. This game’s story is so bad that it made me appreciate Age of Calamity’s clickbait mess. As bad as THAT game’s writing was, at least it had aome fantastic character moments and writing

[@evaxiaolong]

@@skylarc6063 you talk as if most games weren't basically that link awakening sages, or taking artifacts and in the end boom he kills gannon, or whoever the villain is

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@evaxiaolong yeah but its how they are exucted that naters. BOTW’s story was executed greatly where as TOTK was trash

[@milagroirala6763]

Hello! Great video, I agree mostly, except for 0:26 and I think that's the main reason why TOTK fails in it's story. All Zelda games have simple stories at first glance, but thanks to the use of subtext, endearing characters and expressionism, among other elements, they enrich their stories, making them more complex and making them work on their own, without having to depend on the story of another game in the saga. Although the stories of the games are connected through the chronology, the truth is that you can play any game in the series without the need for the context of what happened in another game and still enjoy the story: the same is not the case with this game. TOTK is a sequel, so it is understood to some extent that its story depends on that of another game, however, TOTK relies (and in a very superficial and poorly executed way) from any other game in the franchise less than the one it should, which is BOTW, its prequel. It tries to break away from it, just like Majora and Awakening did with their respective prequels, but what it manages to do is be inconsistent. The main reason for this is that everything takes place in the same place, with characters and elements that we already knew, so the lack of continuity of the previous events is disconcerting to those who have played the first game and are now playing the sequel. However, there are things that I think have an explanation, like the ancient sages covering their faces and Rauru bearing the same name as the light sage of Oot. Unfortunately, those questions won't be answered by the game itself.

[@N12015]

Indeed, you don't need continuity if those characters did not lived those events. But it's kinda important if you actually lived those. For example, the Stalfo in TP remembers how he lived without glory for his acts because he's the Link from OOT/MM, but only he.

[@probablyzeke_]

i disagree with saying most the zelda games have boring story, but i do think they missed what could’ve been a great story for TOTK

[@DEBUGMODE]

Most Zelda games have better presented stories but they're all fairly simple which is fine. I just think the series could and should be more ambitious.

[@brouettiwlask]

@@DEBUGMODE I personally think that what really sets zelda storytelling apart is it's character growths and each characters personal stories is what makes the games truly compelling in terms of storytelling, they flesh out characters and write character growths very well and this focus on the individuals rather than doing crazy twists and turns (and usually if there are twists they seem to tie into characterization) seems more important and imo a very simple story executed really well is better than a constant whiplash just to ensure the player doesn't know what's coming next done even just slightly worse than the former

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

I'm actually glad that Zelda returns to a human form at the end, but that's mainly because she deserves a happy ending after all the suffering she's been through. That being said, I wish Link didn't get his arm back.

[@clonetrooper2003]

What pisses me off is not that she got a happy ending but that it was unearned as hell

[@RevaliHeeHo]

The other day I saw a comment on reddit that said "I prefer BotW's lack of story (a beautiful story) rather than TotK's bad story." I was so mad with TotK story that I ended up selling it before finishing it. BotW didn't have a lot of story, it was a simple but beautiful story.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Yeah, BotW was a beautiful game that didn't need a very complicated story. It did a lot with its format. I'm sorry the story ruined TotK for you. I think it's a great game in most other respects. I have some quibbles with certain other things, but I can't deny I had a great time with it for a very long time.

[@enzodemetry5335]

Lol, my man, you just missed out on one of the greatest gaming experiences. Sure, the story isn’t great, but everything else is so wonderful it never ruined it for me because I was having such fun!!!

[@creativealias85]

i had a thought the other day that i'd say relates to this. i think part of the issue with totk's story has to do with how zelda stories tend to feel. my thought is that zelda stories get by not on deep and complex narratives, but on a simple premise that replicates the feel of classic fairy tales, while flavoring each section of the game with a different idea which changes things up in a meaningful yet restrained way. where botw certainly had its own share of issues with its story, the situation with calamity ganon feels more like a simple premise than an attempt at telling a deeper story, and as a result it inherently can't fail in that regard because it never really tried to begin with. totk on the other hand tries to tell a more detailed story, and while some elements are somewhat interesting the majority of it just feels poorly done. oot's story feels straight out of a classic fairy tale, while totk's story feels like it was taken from a forgettable tv series.

[@farron2551]

BOTW's story gets too much flak for what it really is. I think the disconnect of the memories cutscenes did a great job of conveying Link's confusion and loss after stepping into Hyrule after a hundred years. Would I have loved to have the buildup of the Calamity as actual gameplay than just live out the aftermath? Of course. But the fact I managed to sympathize and even grieve the death of the Champions made the idea that I could not ever go back to them hit hard in a different way. I never felt as much satisfaction defeating a final boss before since it felt so personal. After finishing TOTK and hating it, it was surreal to see so much people saying it was a step up from BOTW's story.

[@daniel8181]

"I sold the game before I finished it because I didn't like the story before finishing it" Fucking ootbabies lmao

[@BIGBMH]

I came into this a bit defensive, but I ended up agreeing with everything. My biggest annoyance was the repetition of the sage exposition at every temple, but I think it reflect a larger issue of not having the game adapt as much as it needs to to the information Link discovers. What we learn from each sage should be the default "Chapter 1" temple narrative. If I finish 1 temple, the next sage should give me their version of Chapter 2. And so on. There'd still be issues of depth of story, but getting rid of the repetition and adding just a few more beats of story would help a lot. As much as I love Nintendo and the Zelda series, the lack of priority they put on elevating their storytelling really frustrates me. They can be gameplay first and still build more satisfying narratives on top of that.

[@DEBUGMODE]

I appreciate you hearing me out! I like your idea. It would have potentially solved a lot of issues. But you're right, Nintendo doesn't prioritize storytelling. While I appreciate the focus on good game design first and foremost, I think they could tell better stories or at least avoid mistakes like we see in TotK.

[@BIGBMH]

@@DEBUGMODE Yeah, it’s a shame. They’re already so good at so many aspects of the experience. If they married that with strong storytelling and improved presentation elements (full voiceover among other things), these games would truly be in a league of their own.

[@anotherdan4920]

Thank you for making this video! You are one of the few people online I have seen recognize this problem. Despite being a sequel the story feels barely connected to the previous story. Even the most basic connections are not made such as an NPC saying something like, "Wow, this Gloom looks exactly like that Malice we had to deal with for a 100 years." You never get closure for even the most simple of questions from the previous game such as what happened to all of the Shekiah technology between the games. It's all very disappointing and brings down the game.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yeah its impressive how people who dont like BOTW’s story praise this garbage

[@amandaslough125]

@@clonetrooper2003 Luckily I hate both. But somehow TotK made me appreciate BotW more for at least knowing what it was trying to do, even if it wasn't my style. Meanwhile TotK is a sandbox gmod engine trying to remind you there's an action adventure game underneath.

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@amandaslough125 fair and actually consistent. Funny enough TOTK made me appreciate Age of Calamity’s story. Yes, that game had bad writing to with it contradicting creating a champion, having plotholes, and a terrible villain (aside from having clickbait nature) but at least unlike TOTK it had actual solid character work and DAMN SOLID story moments that INFINITELY rival TOTK’s incredibly few

[@armzngunz]

One big gripe I had with the story is how passive Zelda is in the past. She was sent to the past for some reason, these things don't happen willy nilly, so I'd expect her to ask why was she sent back and what her purpose is in the past. She doesn't clue Rauru into anything that has happened in her time, she doesn't think about telling Rauru about the Calamity Ganon, about how they found a mummy under the castle that was sealed away, leaking the red evil magic similar to Calamity Ganon's magic and that was being held down by a hand which had the "secret stone" she picked up. This information could for all she knows be crucial to solving the mystery, but she shows no indication of even considering telling him. She doesn't connect "Ganondorf = Ganon" except "Even his name gives me pause". This character who was established in Botw to be a smart researcher, seems so clueless in this iteration.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Yeah, that's a good point. To be fair, none of the characters seem particularly intelligent. That's frustrating. It's the most obvious sign that the story is operating on the level of a kids show.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yeah she is just a mindless drone of garbage in the past

[@jcsdarnell]

Considering how much longer the game is, I'd expect TotK to get that percentage more cutscenes length over BotW’s. HW:AoC was a simpler game with a much better story in large part because of so much more cutscene material.

[@clonetrooper2003]

As bad as AOC’s story was, at least those who were writing it had a passion for the story of BOTW’s characters

[@EmersonFlemingEmRock13]

I think BOTW's nonlinear narrative storytelling worked because the story in that game was less about the events going on and more about the development and understanding of the characters. The story was about Zelda's insurmountable pressure in trying to defeat Calamity Ganon, Link's failures, and the ultimate climax of Zelda finally realizing her powers and trapping Ganon. You didn't really need to see the exact order of events to get the gist of the story and a connection with the characters. In TOTK, the story is so much more plot-driven, so watching the cutscenes out of order is just confusing and muddying. There is a clear order to those cutscenes unlike in BOTW, and if you defeat even one temple before getting all of the dragon tears then you know exactly what is going on outside of the draconification (which pretty much got spoiled for me in the first cutscene I found, where Mineru explains what Zelda must do and the consequences of it). Unlike BOTW it feels like they came up with a really cool story for TOTK but then decided to tell it in the worst and most repetitive way possible.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Hit the nail on the head

[@DEBUGMODE]

That's a great summation. That's why my critique is about the storytelling not so much the story itself although I think how distanced you are from most of the principle characters is a missed opportunity there.

[@mbii7667]

I just found the Light Dragon flying around very early on and spoiled Zelda's fate for myself

[@agentbuckshot4697]

A lot of people are comparing TOTK to Majora's Mask as direct sequels, and honestly it's embarrassing just how much better that game is in almost every aspect both as a sequel and standing out as it's own entity.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yeah majoras mask doesnt have terrible characters like sonia and rauru for example

[@DEBUGMODE]

They did a tremendous job making Majora's Mask distinct from Ocarina despite the re-use of assets. BotW and TotK blend together a lot more but I much prefer their gameplay. The time loop concept of Majora is way better on paper than in execution. And that's fair. That game was made in a fraction of the time.

[@LinktheCommunistWaifu]

The point of Zeldas story being repetitive is why I love Majora's Mask so much. It takes out the point of "save Hyrule from Ganondorf" and replaced it with, "HERE IS A WORLD ENDING MOON. STOP IT IN 3 DAYS!" The main plotline of grief really hits hard, and you have to finish Darmani's and Mikau's final requests. This is why it is my favorite Zelda game. Can we get a new Hero of Time game please Nintendo?

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yeah but thats different. What you just described was a countdown to a tragedy. The cutscenes in TOTK are just duplicate copy paste trash

[@-Getsuga-]

I absolutely loved BotW despite the weaker story than most Zelda games had so far, but it still worked for me with the world. At the same time I also loved how BotW told a story where (Calamity) Ganon won and Hyule mostly lies in ruins with monsters everywhere. Add most of Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity to BotW's backstory/narrative and I actually was very happy about BotW's story & lore as a whole! Everything was coherent and made sense. Then TotK got announced and it was revealed that Ganondorf would be the antagonist there once again. I was extremely hopeful that Ganondorf's inclusion in TotK would fix that "one problem" BotW had for me. He would bring back some personality to the evil side of things that Calamity Ganon lacked and therefore could also improve the storytelling there - I got really excited! Then, TotK finally came out - I played through it and while I enjoyed it A LOT as expected, in the end, I was also kinda disappointed with the game, because of a few things in comparison to BotW: They didn't do anyything with Ganondorf for the overall story and it ended up being even WEAKER than BotW for me (despite the fantastic intro TotK got when Link & Zelda found his shriveled up body, etc) and it still enrages me when I think about how not a SINGLE NPC, etc says anything about where the whole Shiekah tech from BotW went in TotK or how Ganondorf is related to Calamity Ganon, aside from the obvious things. It's just gone and nobody gives a rat's ass about these things in TotK... It was sooo annoying & weird to me. I would've been content if just a single NPC line explained it with a throw-away explanation like "After the calamity, the Shiekah tech stopped working and most of it disappeared." - there you'd have it - easy as that, but nope. They chose not to say a single line of explanation about it. And I found it actually insulting to the players how they just copypasted that almost 1:1 story cutscene of the Imprisoning War after every sage/temple, adding absolutely nothing valuable to the narrative after you watched it for the first time... What were they thinking!?!? In the end, they also completely backpedalled the whole "Once you've become a dragon, you'll lose yourself and you can't ever go back!" by just throwing that all out of the window for a happy end... Sigh. Therefore BotW's world and everythign about it was a lot more coherent for me in comparison and TotK didn't really feel like a true sequel to me most of the time and more like a parallel timeline which was very disappointingl to me aswell. I really don't know why Nintendo handled this all so poorly in TotK - they really dropped the ball on quite a few things there... What a shame!

[@jman2001jt]

I agree with many of the points here but honestly I think the biggest problem with TOTK's story that kind of makes everything else fall apart is Ganondorf being an absolute non-character. In terms of motivation and character-depth he is just about as one-note as his OOT incarnation. Now, a simple villain is not necessarily a bad thing if they are entertaining to watch and have a good amount of presence, but TOTK Ganondorf fails in those areas too. After his amazing introduction scene he has basically no presence in the plot, save for the memories. Sure, characters love to talk about him and make a big deal about how much of a threat he is, but it's all fairly shallow and surface-level. You can pretty much break down everything said about him to just, "Demon King bad, very scary." Even in the memories, nothing he does or says is particularly interesting or memorable. This is a problem because Ganondorf is at the center of the plot. Everything that happens in the story revolves around his initial rise and reawakening. Since the threat is so generic, so too is the conflict that arises from it. Calamity Ganon was a mindless beast, a shell of the former Demon King stripped of all humanity and personality. It was implied that this was the spirit of the original Ganondorf having had his soul eroded after constantly losing to heroes and being resurrected over and over again. Bringing back Ganondorf as the main villain would have been a perfect opportunity to create some contrast and capitalize on that history. In that respect, TOTK retroactively makes Calamity Ganon and BOTW's story as a whole less interesting since now we know that the Great Calamity originated from a fairly boring character with no prior relationship to a version of Link and a barebones connection to Zelda. TOTK Ganondorf is entirely held up by his amazing character design and fantastic final boss fight, but he could have been so much more.

[@clonetrooper2003]

I disagree. As badly excecuted as Ganondorf was, mainly in the english version, I would argue the biggest problem in this game is the garbage ending

[@illusionaryheart3325]

When I first saw the cutscene with Zelda transforming, I was amazed and shocked. Practically killing her, even if it was obvious where it was going, hit hard. But then I had the drive to defeat Ganondorf, did so, and her sacrifice was immediately reversed without any real reason. Catching her midair was cool, but would have been more satisfying if we had worked towards finding a WAY to rescue her, instead of deus ex machina.

[@clonetrooper2003]

No kidding

[@Linkfire360]

As far as the memories go since they get stored and viewed in the purah pad I feel like even if you found the tears on the map it could've be made so you couldn't view them or if you did view them cause they were distorted or smth. That way when you beat a temple part of the reward for it could've been the respective sage doing something to help decrypt the data. That gives a set for each sage of generations past interaction to one have been more personalised to each sage and even further expand them fitting into the story since for the decryption thing to make sense the data being decrypted now has to kinda relate to the sage. i.e. they were present in the scene or it was something to with their tribe. Like for example the scene were rauru layers the sand monsters could've had raura instigating the attack in a distorted memory or smth (gloom would be the cause of distortion prolly) but then on meeting the gerudo sage the memory is recitfied by her since it's inconsistent with what actually happened. Is this an unpolished idea with probable issues, yes but I came up with it in 5 minutes nintendo has had effectively 4(?) years to think off a better solution than this so... Also I am very disappointed that none of the zelda theories relating to demise's curse being broken and ganondorf siding with hyrule for once didn't come to fruition. I feel like a twist like that would've been the perfect followup to botw story wise and would've allowed for a sort of reboot in the fundamental zelda plot that would've allowed for a different plot in whatever the next game that happens is. It would also thematically feel right cause it would've closed something that started in skyward sword and I feel like that would've of suited with the amount of references to skyward sword can be drawn from totk. Instead we got a game that kinda contradicts the lore established in one of the most story driven zeldas we have

[@NickMivera]

I despise Nintendo NPCs, unbelievably generic and lifeless. And their stories are so "we want your 3 year old infant and 93 year old grandmother to understand this easily". Type of story.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Going for broad appeal does limit the complexity and content of their stories. There is something to be said for making games with multi-generational appeal though. That's kind of special. That said, they've done better with storytelling than this in the past. I think I get where you're coming from with the NPC comment. Again, I think this is something Nintendo has done better in the past. In fact, the side quest NPCs in TotK are way better than the main quest ones. They're not complex either but they can be quite charming and memorable at times.

[@SpringtimeBaboon]

I think that Zelda really should have stayed draconofied. Like you say, it would have added so much more weight to the story and ending, and an idea I had is that if she had stayed draconofied, they could have used that for a post-game dlc, like you would defeat Ganondorf and then go on a quest to try to restore Zelda, or heck, it could even have been the plot for the next game.

[@ILikeWafflz]

I agree fully. Her dragon music has an eerie way of invoking the feeling of lightness and darkness, and it hit pretty heavily before I learned it just gets undone.

[@steecheeful]

I needed this. I really couldn’t place why totk didn’t resonate with me as much as botw. Botw was life changing. Totk is just more of the same. Also i hate that there isn’t a post-game. Like the spent all this time. There should have been some effort put into being able to continue to play even after defeating ganon

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yeah there shoulda been a postgame

[@DEBUGMODE]

Haha, honestly if the game had just been solving the regional quests and then a bunch of side quests where you help rebuild Hyrule (not just one village) that would have been more fitting with the games' mechanics and focus. But I think players would have rejected the lack of a central villain. They could have done both though. With all the piles of construction material strewn around, I thought we were gonna get to build houses and buildings all over Hyrule to help restore its former glory. That would have been neat.

[@Max.Paprika]

I've always said Nintendo just isn't good at crafting narrative, but I've hardly found anyone who concurs. To finally find a video like this is so validating after struggling to care about anything that happens to the characters in the past half dozen Zelda titles. Now if I could just find someone who also feels Ganondorf is a terrible character who never should have been created in the first place, I'd feel even more validated.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Well i agree totk ganondorf sucks but i dont agree that he shoukd hnever have been created

[@Max.Paprika]

@@clonetrooper2003 I get that, but I never liked the idea of putting a human form to what's always been such this great evil spiritual force. Ganon could get nearly anyone to do its bidding, and every title could have had a different main villain ultimately controlled by Ganon, but whenever Ganondorf is the main antagonist, it's hard for me to care at all. I just feel like it cheapens the idea of Ganon in the first place, and I don't see why they felt the need to tie its presence to a mortal person. But again, it's been tough finding others who agree, and I do understand why most people are alright with him being around.

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@Max.Paprika you actually bring up an interesting point. I do think the series needs to justify ganondorfs existence instead of ganon more. I hink its time they leaned into the idea of man v monster with the guy instrad of just having him replace ganon

[@MrMaskedhater]

Ocarina of Time: Shows you the relationship Link had with a fish person BotW: Tells you the relationship Link had with a fish person ToTK: Fish person

[@clonetrooper2003]

One of the many ways totk’s story is bad

[@betterlatethannever4529]

Nobody: The Sages: “Here’s my side of the story, which is the exact same as everyone else’s, except it’s just a few feet to the side.”

[@clonetrooper2003]

The Sages also be like: Oh and by he way, unlike the 4 champions we have absolutely no personality traits. Yes you could argue the same about maz koshia but at least he ws a badass

[@Chubby_Bub]

It's funny to me that a lot of the criticisms BotW received for its "any order" storytelling are so much worse in TotK, and prove that BotW did a relatively good job. Early on playing TotK I really thought the story was going to be more linear this time in a still open world, only to find it wasn’t, to the major detriment of the storytelling. I think my biggest gripe is that you can find out Zelda is a dragon and then do the entire story without being able to tell anyone. If they had sequentialized the memories with the story, or at the very least tied the final one to completion of the fifth sage (and probably not have Mineru outright mention draconification), it would have made it so much more impactful. They even bothered to have a message saying "the time isn't right" if you manage to find Mineru's mask early- but this is tied to the paraglider and not any of the actual story!

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yet these are the same people who praise TOTK’s story which is hypocritical

[@ethankoernke1329]

I felt the same way as the person who made this video. There should be more elaboration to the planning that took place after the imprisoning war. For instance the seal that was used in the skyward sword, which would have to be made by three of the different tribes after they realized that the darkness was starting to rise again. What they're suggesting is that the events that child experiences in the storyline actually predate skyward sword. At least that's the way that it seems to me anyway. So what you're seeing in tears of the Kingdom, is a precursor to skyward sword.

[@BunniesXO]

I don't think that's accurate because in skyward sword, hyrule doesn't exist yet. It's the beginning of everything: Demise, Hylia, Link and Zelda. IMO it takes place just after, coexisting even, considering Link is from Skyloft and Rauru is from the sky. My two cents, it's a fun time line✌🏻

[@lukemimnagh2594]

My biggest gripe is just how lazy Nintendo were when wiriting the Sages and their object, secret stone is extremely lazy and it could've been called something much better, and the cutscenes for the dages are also extremely lazy, just being copy/pastes of eachother

[@knight-of-aether]

It's funny in hindsight, but when I found the memory where Zelda meets Rauru and Sonia for the first time, I was immediately suspicious, because they were just so sweet and nice and unsurprised at her sudden appearance, it seemed fake. I was expecting a plot twist where they turned out to have darker motives, but apparently such complexity was too much to hope for in this story... the characters are all so one-note, even Ganondorf's motivation and backstory is never explored. The worst thing is how most of the characters show even less personality than in Breath of the Wild, and have to behave incredibly stupidly and out of character so that the "oh so tragic" plot can even take place. Even Zelda, the (formerly) most well characterized of them all, ends up learning nothing new from her journey, which is just the same deal she got in the last game (but this time she can fly around instead of being stuck in a castle, so that's cool, right?) Honestly... Nintendo can, and should, do better. Hopefully they relearn how to respect their players' intelligence when it comes to storytelling in future Zelda games.

[@clonetrooper2003]

It fucking astounds me how the same people who hate on the BOTW champions praise the boring cancerous garbage that is Sonia and Rauru, who I both hate and I am glad died

[@clonetrooper2003]

#TOTKStoryIsIredeemableGarbage

[@XanderVJ]

Although I agree with the general thesis, I have some problems with the things you say in the video, particularly with the narrative of previous Zelda titles, but I'll focus on one thing you overlook regarding Zelda's sacrifice: the out of order narrative can, and will for many players, utterly destroy the significance of that moment by spoiling it way too early. And I know because it's what happened to me. Turns out the third tear I got was none other than the last one chronologically (the one with the Master Sword glyph). And turns out that tear essentially RECAPS THE ENTIRE SUBPLOT FROM START TO FINISH! Ganondorf's return, Rauru's sacrifice, Zelda turning into a dragon... ALL OF IT. At the moment I hoped there would still be some kind of twist in other tears, but you can imagine how underwhelmed I felt when I saw that no, that was it. No new revelations, no interesting twists, not even interesting character moments. Heck, 99% of my hopes were crushed two tears afterwards, when I got the Purah Tablet glyph tear, in which Mineru essentially foreshadows Zelda's draconification so thick I would have been spoiled almost as badly if I had found this tear before the Master Sword glyph one anyway. The level of incompetence of this almost breaks my brain. It means that scene was drafted, reviewed, edited, storyboarded, animated, voice acted, and implemented into de game AND AT NO POINT IN THAT PROCESS someone came and said "Hey guys, this scene will spoil the entire Zelda sub-plot for people who decide to go for this tear early on. Maybe we should scrap it and think of something else, or maybe just gate this tear until after the four dungeons are completed, like these other memories". And that's a comment that should have been made in story blocking phase. It shouldn't have even made it to the first draft, let alone any phase after that. But it's not only that it ruins the Zelda subplot. It utterly ruins the main plot as a whole as well. After that, the "mystery" of the fake Zelda, not only lost the impact it may have had otherwise (as little as it would have likely been, since that subplot was so predictable on its own to begin with), but it makes it actively infuriating. After that, Link not trying to explain everyone that the Zelda they've seen is not the real one made him look, either as a hopeless dunce, or a massive jerk. Take your pick. Of course, you can argue that Nintendo couldn't have done anything because they can't know for sure how much you have guess from the story on you own until you've gathered al the memories, since they can't account for all the different combinations in which you get them. Which is true but... that's EXACTLY the issue here, isn't it? The out-of-order narrative just doesn't work on a fundamental level.

[@piximimi1287]

I'm mostly mad that the tears were out of order, which doesn't work for TotK story compared to how BotW's memories were more like snippets that you can piece together while the tears feel its one whole thing cut up. I got the tear of Mineru warning Zelda about the draconification before even hearing about what it was in the first place. Also getting the last tear/Master Sword but not finishing the region questions and still seeing the fake Zelda running around is just soooo awkward. I personally don't mind the cheesy boring story but the fact that they had to couple it with the open world/freedom to do whatever first just ruined the story telling for me. It worked for BotW because it was just lore but in TotK it felt pretty vital to at least get hints to finding Zelda. (How you can just go right to Gdorf fight right off the bat is wild to me.)

[@clonetrooper2003]

Not to mention how all the tears themselves are just badly written. For example, even if you do the memories in order, there is NO foreshadowing that a puppet held exists before the Sonia death cutscene. The cutscene before that was the AWFUL tea party cutscene. Talk about incoherent trash

[@mariokujo384]

Fake Zelda was such a missed opportunity, my lord. She could've been such a great way for Ganondorf to fuck with Link throughout the story instead of just...vanishing into thin air whenever Link shows up. Like imagine if you showed up to Hyrule Castle with the Master Sword and Ganondorf realizes how Link got it back. Then, you get a scene where Ganondorf mocks Link through fake Zelda about how his princess was suffering eternally as a dragon and how he can't do a damn thing about it. There's so much potential for Fake Zelda to leave a real impact, but the story just...doesn't do that.

[@clonetrooper2003]

No shit. Not to mention how poorly she was set up. We never even got to see the fake Zelda until the cutscene where Sonia dies like a bitch (which is fitting cuz she is one lololol). They should have just scrapped the garbage fake tea party cutscene and just gave us one of Ganondorf deciding to speed up his plan after he figures out Zelda's identity

[@heyj64]

In my opinion, the scene in Hyrule Castle where "Zelda" shows you an illusion of Hyrule before the Calamity, pristine and in it's prime, just to taunt you was a wasted narrative and character moment. They could've gone further by then showing Hyrule being laid to waste by the corrupted Guardians, Ganondorf telling Link the Calamity was a product of his own dark power, Link snapping in a rage at the Demon who robbed him of everything he once had.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Exactly! Instead of some lame Demon King vision, show us what the Calamoty could have been if Link died! Also, I was HOPING they were gonna explore Link’s backstory in this game but nooooo we had to focus on shitty ass duplicate cutscenes at the end of each dungeon and awful disconnected dragon tears with no setup for anything story relevant in them. #1.5/10Story

[@kingkrysen]

​@@clonetrooper2003agree bro preach it

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@kingkrysenAlright. I also believe the ending is not only overrated AF but the worst part of the story ironically.

[@kingkrysen]

@@clonetrooper2003 and it's the worst story in Zelda history

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@kingkrysen I have only played Minish Cap, Link Between Worlds, Skyward Sword, BOTW, and parts of OOT and LTTP so I can't comment on what you just said BUT this story is definitely on list of worst sequels ever.

[@cherubin7th]

I prefer the rather simple but meaningful stories of the many Zelda games over the overly complicated convoluted BS stories that are always praised by people as "deep".

[@clonetrooper2003]

Exactly. Rauru and sonia are part of that bs

[@Redpoppy80]

My problem is just that Link is not a part of the story in TotK until you get to Ganondorf for the final boss fight. To me it is a greater storytelling failure than the "no name avatar" character many RPG make you play as. I connect with characters who live in, experience and know their own world.

[@cinirice6606]

All the characters were so boring to me. Even after playing over so many hours of the game, I wasn’t attached to anyone. These champions and sages were so forgettable.

[@BunniesXO]

I'm gonna have to stop you right 0:26. We all have our opinions, but don't assume we all feel that way about Zelda. We flock to the franchise FOR👏🏻THE👏🏻STORY👏🏻 Over the decades, the games have really blossomed into something large and breathtaking, totk is the better botw because there IS story.

[@DEBUGMODE]

I know lots of people don't feel that way. That's why I lay out my argument for how I feel in the video. I'm glad you enjoy the stories in these games more than me. Not trying to take that away from anybody. But I think they could and should be a lot better.

[@thewardenofoz3324]

Yeah. A story that you mostly pick up off the ground and experience in the form of past cutscenes. Meanwhile, present story is same as before: babysit the four peoples of Hyrule. The only main difference this time? The Big Bad is sentient and does some minor puppeteering and espionage here and there, and we get to meet a furry king who was shoehorned into the plot so we can have new amiibos for kidz and simple MacGuffins easily added to a poorly penned narrative.

[@BunniesXO]

@@thewardenofoz3324 Yes, that was kind of Aonuma's point: you don't have to experience the cutscenes if you choose not to. I think the storyline was fantastic, considering the set up they did in botw. You don't have to like the games, but don't spoil the experience for others. Say less.

[@BunniesXO]

@@DEBUGMODE Feel how you want, I wouldn't change golden-jelly-bean-swallowing Zelda for anything.

[@thewardenofoz3324]

@@BunniesXO I didn't say any of the story. I talked of the poor plot delivery method that they also used in the PREVIOUS game and mentioned that the player essentially does the same main quest with helping the 4 races. Sad how you don't understand the difference between being a present part of the core narrative versus just picking up and watching long-past cutscenes about a _very_ basic story that already happened.

[@f.k.b.16]

You narrated and laid this out very well!! For 350 some subscribers... You got a gift there! I still need to buy this game but 2:57 is probably the most shocking! I've never felt the story telling of Zelda was bad but Nintendo missing a ton of opportunities... I can see that!

[@f.k.b.16]

Dang.... The comments.... Can you say, "TRIGGERED!!"?

[@KoenRH2803]

I agree with everything except that Zelda never had great storytelling and characters. Majora’s mask for example has some of the most interesting characters in gaming for me. Also there’s a lot of hidden philosophical ideas scattered through side characters that are great. I think people easily mistake a story with a simple structure for a bad story. Unlike previous entries ToTK tries to act like it has a complex story but when you look underneath the surface of the narrative, you find nothing. To make things worse, if you look at it critically you’ll find out so many story beads don’t make any sense.

[@DEBUGMODE]

I had a blink-and-you'll-miss-it caveat about Zelda stories that excepted Majora's Mask and Wind Waker to an extent. I agree that Majora's Mask is more textured at the very least and I'd argue that there's some thematic cohesion in Wind Waker's main plot that elevates that story. I don't think a simple story structure means the story is bad nor do I think a simple story itself is bad. Simple can be great but there's a huge difference between a simple story and an empty one. I think Zelda games have mostly gotten by on "vibes" without much actual substance. The characters especially are pretty thin.

[@thesis-and-nieces6722]

Great video! I had the same sentiments for totk as you mentioned. Totk almost felt like its own story, very little connection with botw, other than zelda. Rauru and sonia felt like a retcon imo.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Its not just that they are retcons. It does not help they are badly written

[@X_Gon_Give_It_To_Ya]

If this is how modern Zelda story telling is going to be from now on...yikes.

[@clonetrooper2003]

This franchise has no future in this regard

[@maroufali3139]

It has the same problem BOTW had, "Why couldn't I just play 100 years in the past when the story happened?". But atleast BOTW was designed around the open world with an amnesiac link learning about the people he lost and the story beats you play are character focused instead of plot focused. TOTK does a linear story we have no involvement in while being a 'player freedom' open world game. Literally why couldn't we have just gone in the past with zelda and experienced the founding of hyrule in person instead of doing the same thing we did in the previous game but worse

[@DEBUGMODE]

Or play as Zelda in the flashbacks. Something to integrate that part of the story with the gameplay.

[@eliasassargustafsson9188]

I have a question regarding the fps when recording game footage. I want to record footage of my gameplay on both botw and totk and theirs an option to record in 60fps instead of default 30fps which makes the recorded file heavier. Is it necessary for quality issues or can i just ignore it and save more room on my external hard drive?

[@DEBUGMODE]

Max frame rate of both games is 30. There's no point to recording any higher than that.

[@sakuraneko2595]

I enjoyed Tears of the kingdom a little bit less than botw because of the story and the same map. Like in botw the champions had personalities and relationships with Link and Zelda.I also don't like that they used the exact same map and didn't put a lot into the dephs and the sky. I think they could've even split up the regions by sea like windwaker or did something to make it more interesting.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Same here mi amigo. I love BOTW’s story and characters which is why I prefer it

[@jacobj3933]

I also take issue with Zelda's ancestors looking nothing like her. Especially the so called "King of Hyrule", you're mixing two different species together to suit some weird fanfic esque desire, basic thought processing would force anyone to question how and why a Furry mixing with humans somehow didn't dilute or at all mess with human dna of any descendants. Also when did Hylians start getting darker complexions? We've seen them go through centuries of civilizational success and downfalls, but never throughout those periods did we see a sudden alteration to their more immediate physical characteristics.

[@WhyUHaf2BeMad]

this game disappointed me way too much . was fun but man there were so many times i was just uninterested .. idk how they spend 7 years on a game and the story is practically the exact same as BOTW , they repeat cutscenes with minimal changes for all of the temples.. the temples all follow the same thing use this sage ability 5 times to open 5 locks .. a good few times where half of a characters dialogue is text and one half is voice acting .. one example is the deku tree .... why couldnt he talk to me when i killed the phantom gannon inside of him but he will speak in his cutscene and then go back to text after. i didnt find the ganon fight hard at all because he only done like 1 heart per hit so when he transformed into dragon i thought it was gonna be such a cool fight and was insanely let down by just land on him and hit each thing twice .. especially since 90% of the time id try land on it id just get instantly knocked off and the light dragon kept pushing me as i was falling instead of landing on its head . so it wasnt even hard, just frustrating to do the most simple things .. and then what the f was the point in don't swallow the stone , the whole you lose yourself and you wont ever be the same again just for that to get completely ignored at the end of the game and what was the biggest letdown for me was after beating that fight it puts you at a save before even beating ganon ... i was hoping to speak to some npc and see what theyd have to say about it but nah the sages abilities were so god damn awful .. whos idea was it to run up to one during combat to press a to activate? all ima say to nintendo is do not let them work on the next zelda game . literally didnt use anyone apart from tulin i really dislike the fact that you can get the mastersword multiple ways .. i was curious to see the memories from geoglyphs relatively early on.. that was a huge mistake as watching them in the wrong order completely spoiled it and then it felt like the mastersword was too easy to get and i didnt deserve it . which this made the deku tree quest an utter let down and then using the mastersword was also a huge disappointment . only used the mastersword on the weakling enemies so id save durability on my other weapons for boss fights its sad that i really enjoyed this game even though it was annoying that is was very repetitive.. but then all of the good feelings i had about the game just got completely nuked at the end

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yeah the ending is trash

[@OHHHHUSBANT]

They spent 7 years because engine stuff for psychics interaction and making work with hundreds of items which is a pain in the ass

[@arktya]

The ending of this game legitimately pissed me off so much, why even tell this story in the first place if every single consequence it has on Link and Zelda gets completely reversed by the end? Especially if another direct sequel is highly unlikely?

[@clonetrooper2003]

Yesh it astounds me to no end that people are actually prasing this garbage ending

[@aidanjones8288]

I love TotK, but I definitely agree the story has its flaws. Zelda becoming a dragon is a great twist, but if you figure it out too early it kind of ruins a large portion of the rest of the game. I did all the geoglyphs first, and found out about dragon Zelda, only to then have 5 dungeons and a lot of plot dealing with the Phantom Zelda mystery. Botw nonlinear story telling worked because we knew what happened in the end already, the memories just fleshed it out. Totks story is set up to be more linear, but tries to copy off of BoTWs storytelling.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Yeah, exactly! That's a really good way of distinguishing between the two games' stories and why BotW can get away with a non-linear structure where TotK can't as much.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Exacttly! It was a tragic tale which relied on worldbuilding and the memories to tell of a beautiful prequel set far after TP while TOTK just sucked. You hit the nail on the head mi amigo

[@coolguychecker7329]

It's still wild to me that they introduced a whole new additional map the same size as Breath of the Wild's and just about its only story content is, "hey people used to mine down here for Hyrule's version of fuel." I get the feeling that they leaned heavily on the story ideas they already had for Breath of the Wild because that part of the team checked out early. Maybe they were tasked with developing the ideas for the next Zelda pretty early on so that there's some kind of Zelda game available at launch with the next console, which definitely will release in less than 6 years.

[@DEBUGMODE]

Yeah, the Depths started really cool but weren't expanded on nearly enough. If the new console is out late 2024 there's no way it will launch with a big new Zelda game. Maybe a remake or a new top-down game? But I doubt the reason for the lack of deep story is because the writers went to work on another game.

[@coolguychecker7329]

@@DEBUGMODE The art team typically starts on the next game before the previous game releases, that's not unusual. I'm thinking this process started earlier than usual because there isn't that much new art material in this game. I don't know if it's because a sequel required less or because they're already looking forward. Maybe a new Zelda won't be ready at launch, but they can't wait until 2028.

[@VezixHaikal]

its frustrating that they have winning formula at hand, botw has the perfect story for its world , the environment enhances the simple story(we know the destruction of calamity ganon by exploring), the memories added the needed context for why link doing what he does (why each champion matters, why ZELDA matters and each of their relationship and dynamic), totk? just throw everything out of window, pretend it never existed while at the same time pretending its still there like we're bloody idiot, its disrespectful and indeed extremely frustrating what they needed to do is just some flavor text explaining why it is like that but they failed that and the sages ability easily makes me hate this game

[@DEBUGMODE]

Yep. Good points. Did you not like the control implementation of the sage abilities or the abilities themselves? I like the abilities but I kind of couldn't believe how they're activated. It's like they ran out of buttons on the controller and felt like that was the best they could come up with when plenty of other games have better solutions to such things. Only the Ruto one is always available when you want/need it. The sage controls are the only part of the core gameplay that's really, really inelegantly designed.

[@VezixHaikal]

@@DEBUGMODE yeap the way they're implemented, i believe is the Achilles's heel's for totk the horse whistle button can be easily reimplemented to be used for sages, cuz lets be real , with how easy it is to create hovercraft via zonai artifacts and how easy it is to upgrade the battery, do anyone really use their horses? or whistles for them? exactly!

[@DEBUGMODE]

Yeah, for sure. Or they could have made some of those buttons assignable to different powers and abilities (a Zelda series staple!). They could have put the sage abilities on the powers wheel.

[@portpebble5097]

The dialogue is also very ultra-repetitive in this game, characters repeating the same bit of information over and over. It got to the point where even someone like me- who always interacts with every NPC for every bit of dialogue- was becoming bored and skipping through text. I can’t tell you how many times this game tried to hammer in a point so excessively that it felt almost demeaning. Like the devs thought that if players didn’t have 3 separate characters telling them the objective every minute, they would forget it. All good writers know that in order for prose to be engaging, it must be concise: able to communicate your ideas in as little time as necessary. This game felt like it had the opposite in mind, its dialogue akin to a child trying to reach a word count on an essay.

[@clonetrooper2003]

You summed up my thoughts. Thank god i only found one idiot who defended the duplicate cutscenes. Even those who like this story know this repetitive stuff is bad

[@someone24688]

Zelda's de-draconifacation just makes me wonder, why the hell can't we do that for the other dragons? Who are the other ones? We don't get to know

[@clonetrooper2003]

Of course we dont! Why? Because Nintendo didnt have the balls to give us a bittersweet ending! Instead, they gave us some random bullshit inconsequential unearned happy ending that wasnt set up at ALL!

[@jameshpotato2675]

I honestly think botw's story gets more hate than it deserves. Considering how the game was set in a post apocalypse I think it was really smart how they made the story happen in the past instead of present. And considering they wanted you to be able to fight the final boss at any time, the memories were really the only way to have a story. I think you can actually enjoy the story if you invest yourself in it. It's actually quite an emotional story when you get attached to specifically Zelda. When you see things such as the king's diary and how he was planning to be nicer to Zelda but then the calamity happened before he could tell her. It's actually pretty emotional. The only thing I would've liked and what would've made the present story a ton better was if Link actually had emotions. I get they want him to be emotionless so he can represent the player but that's so stupid tbh. No one is emotionless in the real world so it doesn't really make me feel like I'm Link at all. Instead I think the story would be so much better if we actually got to see Link's guilt, once he slowly recovers his memories he starts to feel the guilt and pain that he couldn't save everyone he loved. It would've made a truly heartfelt story not just in the past but in the present too.

[@DEBUGMODE]

I largely agree with you. I more-or-less like BotW's story. It does *vibes* well which is something 3D Zelda specifically has always been good at. You really feel the lost grandeur of Hyrule. Although I don't think Zelda's arc is particularly well executed, I get what they were trying to do and like the idea. And as you pointed out, Link being a blank slate holds back the storytelling. I think it hurts TotK even more.

[@thevoyagingcreator]

Would Zelda's sacrifice have meant more if we had to work to get her back?

[@clonetrooper2003]

OF COURSE it would have! That way we wouldn’t have some contrived lore breaking bullshit ending of Rauru and Sonia magically saving her

[@evaxiaolong]

@@clonetrooper2003 i don't see how it's magical link, rauru and sonia have time powers sonia is the sage of time why wouldn't returning zelda to her original state be possible?

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@evaxiaolong 1. It was never established that their powers could be that powerful without Zelda 2. Even if that werent the case, it still comes out of nowhere and goes against this game’s garbage theme lf sacrifice, by undoing Zelda’s

[@evaxiaolong]

@@clonetrooper2003 I don't know i always expected them to revive zelda so it didn't bother me

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@evaxiaolong yeah but they did it in a contrived bullshit unesrned way and thats why i hate it

[@HylianSwamp123]

I like the story, and there are a lot of really good moments in it, like the puppet zelda cutscene and the master sword scene, but there are just a lot of things that needed to be fleshed out. I personally feel like zelda coming back was somewhat of a necessity as she is the last living member of the royal family, but I think there are ways they couldve done it better. An idea I had was actually to have two endings of the game: an ending for if you dont do all of the story and a true ending. In the ending where you dont do everything, it could fade to black after link sheathes the master sword, and then show link paragliding to the ground and him looking up at dragon zelda flying away. In the true ending, where you get all the sages and dragon tears, basically the ending that exists plays out, but instead of rauru and sonia helping link restore zelda, the modern sages do by channeling their powers through link, like we see zelda and sonia do with rauru in the Gerudo Assault memory. I think this would be better than what we have currenrly because (1, the current sages are alive, rauru and sonia are dead (2, the current sages actually have their secret stones with them, so their power would be more powerful than rauru and sonias, and having 5 people instead of just 2 would also make the recall more powerful (3, according to an interview with the zelda team, the theme of the game is "hands", which can be seen by link having raurus arm and each secret stone cutscene has link join hands with each sage, and by extension recruiting each race to fight Ganondorf. I think having all the races of hyrule joined together to revive princess zelda would have fit thematically better than with rauru and sonia. Maybe have rauru present if you want to show him fade away after link gets his arm back, but dont have him and sonia actually bring zelda back (4, this would also hust generally give the sages more of a use in the story, since they dont do very much in the end of the game

[@clonetrooper2003]

An acceptable point of view

[@Platinum_XYZ]

wow! this is very well made and very high quality. the editing is seamless and your audio is recorded and processed very cleanly, which I know takes a lot of effort. your discussion points cover a lot of interesting areas. because of the quality I didn't even notice the low number of engagement and subscriber count on this channel until after I watched the whole thing I enjoyed watching this a lot! you are doing everything right and your hard work doesn't go unnoticed

[@DEBUGMODE]

That's very kind. Thank you! I'm never gonna be full time at this but I try my best when I put something out there.

[@statelyelms]

Yeah can't help but agree with everything. I'd type it out but I did already and it was a good paragraph or so, so I'll boil it down to the Sages were completely bland and immediately forgetful, the Sage dialogues/cutscenes were *gratingly* boring and repetitive after the first one, the rewards from beating a boss were implemented horribly (seriously? I have to run down this ghost lady to get my lightning power in combat?? Why couldn't they just have a radial menu-) and because of all this I didn't feel anywhere near as invested in the game as BOTW. BOTW I felt fear and anxiety approaching the castle even though I could wallop Ganon thanks to the Beasts and all my saved up items, because I knew what he'd wrought and how it felt like it touched so incredibly personally. This game? I think he's more powerful but I don't even care about the fight. I have literally no investment aside from like, watching what is basically a movie, and the one good Ganon-related story in the game (where I actually nearly die to him, in the intro). A thousand years ago six totally immemorable NPCs lost to a buff bearded guy and because of that, I have a new mechanic so annoying to have available I will rather go without it entirely. TOTK's Ganon-related story feels like it was made by a third party studio copying off of BOTW and changed how things worked a little bit, thinking it'd work the same, but instead realizing it had less of the emotional investment now. It's much more focused on Zelda, which is fine.. but zero effort went into the Sages so I care pretty little about Ganon. I cared more about a silver moblin that hit my horse than freaking Ganondorf.

[@bluerexplaysgames722]

You also gotta remember that at the end of the day, Nintendo isn't making a game strictly for people who've played every Zelda so far, and a fair amount of the people playing these games are literal children. They will always take the safe route that will get as many buyers/generational interest as possible. Samus will always win and then set the planet/station on self-destruct. Mario will always rescue the princess. Nintendo makes games that are like hanging out with an old friend. You don't wanna find out your high school buddy murdered his wife while you're playing mini-golf, no matter how interesting that would be. That aside, you're not wrong. Though I thought the Zelda dragon was a heckuva cool little twist.

[@Isuream6331]

Yep. Unfortunately, Nintendo isn’t the sort of developers to take massive risks on stories, despite all the potential. Hell, Demise’s curse is basically just a tool to explain why they can keep making these games

[@josephn1000]

I think they wrote themselves in a bit of a hole with sages because they felt they needed to have each sage learn about the past events. So that meant they had to tell the same story to each sage. They could have done it better.

[@DEBUGMODE]

They definitely didn't need to construct it that way. They didn't in BotW. Plus, as has been pointed out by numerous comments, Link has basically no agency in the story. He can't tell people anything that he's learned about the past, Phantom Ganon, or Zelda's whereabouts. Link (and thus the player) are passive, helpless participants in much of the plot.

[@BorbMcGorb]

I hold firmly that Twilight Princess was the best example of a Zelda story expanding on a previous. The country bumpkin descendant of the Hero of Time being whisked away from his simple farm life to slay the returned evil that his ancestor defeated in a timeline that never was. All while giving you plenty new to explore with plenty new characters, with the only ones who truly exist in both stories being the Hero of Time and Ganondorf.

[@clonetrooper2003]

Exactly. Way better than sonia and rauru