Why is there so little MELODY in New Classical Music? || Q&A No.3

[@JoshTurnerGuitar]

Wow David, thanks so much for the shout out! I need to dig into some of your work as well.

[@DBruce]

honoured to have you here Josh! As I said, huge fan!

[@neildawson6274]

"how do you stop your ego getting in the way of one's music?" ...writing music as your only means of income soon sorts that out.

[@el7284]

Peter Phillips

[@macleadg]

Neil Dawson lol... good point!

[@vhollund]

Might be a bad idea if you want to keep artistic integrity ... And eating

[@ETBrooD]

Neil Dawson If your music doesn't at all abide by any free market pressures at all, you're more likely to produce intellectual diarrhea. If your music abides only by free market pressures, you're more likely to produce intellectual fast food. Both extremes are bad. Try to find a middle ground if possible. Having disposable personal income is a good thing, having none at all could be bad, being entirely unconcerned with finances could also be bad.

[@TommenIBaratheon]

So true, this youtuber thinks he can get away with saying waht is music, and what is not, shame on him.

[@insight827]

My grandmother once told me that the problem she had with "plinky plonk" music (as she called it) was that "there's almost always no tune, something to whistle." Great video!

[@catholicmetalhead398]

or in other terms, filler music.

[@instinctbrosgaming9699]

The introduction to Igor Stravinsky's Rite of Spring has a pretty interesting trick for its atonality. What happens is that the first part of the first bar of the opening bassoon solo lands on an A with a fermata marking, in which can subliminally imply that we're in A Minor. After the second try, it's interrupted by an F Horn playing a G# (G# in the F Horn is the same as a C# on an instrument in C). This creates a rather dissonant minor 6th interval. The bassoon continues its solo and the F Horn rises to an A (D for instrument in C). When the bassoon tries to land on A again, the F Horn drops once more (on the exact same beat, mind you) to that G#. That A doesn't feel like a resolution for the rest of the intro (except for some very small amounts of relief that are mostly cut short due to underlying tones that play against that A). Keeping this in mind, atonality can be accomplished through cleverly disrupting resolution.

[@rontomkins6727]

In my experience, the best way to get the ego out of the music, is to keep making music so much, that it no longer becomes something you think too much about. You just do it. This applies to everything, by the way.

[@thexalon]

One reason some modern composition has little by way of melody: When I was studying composing in conservatory, my professors were constantly trying to push me to write music that was less melodic. I unlearned that again after graduation, but my impression was that less melodic music tended to win the prizes and the accolades and thus what the "market" wanted. That was true even among some of the relatively hip local contemporary classical music ensembles.

[@JeremyRobson]

This was my experience in school as well. I wrote a lot of music that sounded like film or video game music, which for some reason made it "lesser" music.

[@enriquesanchez2001]

SO TRUE!!!!!! It turned me off from going to a music school.

[@scalethemachine]

Yep. It's anti-western postmodern thinking. Interesting how they haven't yet noticed that their newfangled approach doesn't resonate the human soul like the lively, expressive, conversational, dynamic, coherent music of the past. Nobody really likes the new classical, it's just high fashion. To see my point, check the most popular classical radio station in North America, wqxr new york classical radio. They play Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Haydn nonstop. That is the REAL market composers should be targeting.

[@DeGuerre]

"anti-western"... that seems unlikely, given that Eastern music and African music and Polynesian music and every single other music tradition that I'm aware of has melody.

[@scalethemachine]

@@DeGuerre That is true, but I think I think these modern composers have western classical tradition specifically in mind, since they still largely use western instrumentation.

[@ticfortea]

I am beyond thrilled to discover that Maestro Bruce is a funk-head! I've always had a tough time trying to reconcile, or figure out the connections between, my love for classical and funky music, because they are just so different. I wrote a funk _fugue_ at one point, so help me. I started to accept that maybe I was just irreconcilably weird, but then I discovered Vulfpeck, and it was like finding kindred spirits in musical outlook I thought I was totally alone in entertaining. And now one of the music educators and contemporary composers I have the greatest respect for drops the ball, too. The funky, funky ball. Man, I am having the greatest day. Thanks David! Looking forward to new videos on any topic of your choosing.

[@unclepodger]

Ah, Vulfpeck. Who doesn't love Joe Dart on the fender bass

[@maryseeker7590]

Keep on being nerdy! (Intellectual, interesting, scientific, informative).

[@TommenIBaratheon]

(ignorant, biased, numb headed, stupid)

[@george474747]

I wouldn't call it nerdy - no more than I would, say, David Attenborough's work. It's just rare to see presenters these days who don't talk down to the public.

[@hryhthbrfthrh]

as somebody who got into "nerdy" music just a few years ago, I immensely respect your videos. Great musical knowledge and interesting topics explained in a friendly, non-condescending way is the way to go. power to the nerds!

[@MarkFitchett]

For some reason many young composers think it's not hip to write a melody. It's actually really hard to come up with a great one.

[@karolakkolo123]

I'm always baffled that harmony and structure is usually the biggest topic in music schools, but no one really ever analyzes what makes a good melody. It is indeed difficult to write a good one

[@topologyrob]

@@karolakkolo123 I agree - I teach composition and focus very strongly on melody for that reason. To me, it's the crucial part of music (though one can have rhythm instead sometimes).

[@catholicmetalhead398]

@@topologyrob exactly if someone composes using only chords, one could hardly consider that person an expert, it's the memorable tunes and subversion of established forms that make for music that's unique and worth listening to.

[@amj.composer]

As a composer who mainly writes melodically, I completely agree. Takes me ages to write a decent melody

[@hughoshea-official]

I do.

[@davidmayhew8083]

I'm glad you mentioned early Joni Mitchell. I think her melodic style is very unique and her guitar writing beautiful. I like her music from different periods too.

[@ec0ec0ec000]

I really love music so much. I cried seeing this video. Thanks for reminding me of what's exciting, and sharing your thoughts with us in such a warm, intelligent way!

[@MrPianoMan]

Contemporary classical makes me think of Einaudi. Most of his music is based off of a couple of very simple sections and phrases that repeat. The song will play through once and then repeat with little articulation. I guess this is why his music is normally a first choice for beginners to learn. I myself compose similar music. Very simple and minimal and the main melody is repeated. Some people hate this but I dont know, I just love simple. I write music this way, not because I'm afraid (I dont get the meaning behind why people say this tbh) but because that's literally how I think. This doesn't mean I cant write a really great melody, I also love and make full and lush orchestral pieces. It's just that my piano and string pieces are minimal and contemporary because I like it that way.

[@derycktrahair8108]

Some interesting ideas, especially regarding EGO. Being too nervous while playing a concert is a distraction. It makes you ask "If I'm scared of making mistakes, who am I trying to impress? Do they really care? What am I doing here ? (it's certainly NOT for the MONEY)." Why we play?...because it feels good. Don't worry, if they don't like you they won't book you & you won't have to do it again.

[@seaseven3958]

My problem with many KZbinrs is that they hold back information, and treat people like children. Bring on the intelligence (it's 2018 and moving fast) It's better to see a video where you understand nothing, than understanding everything. That way you know you've got work to do and have specific things to research until you understand the entire video dialogue.

[@skylightmusicshowree]

Well said!

[@wes4439]

+

[@hansmemling7605]

I hope you aren't trying to speak for everyone on KZbin because I already know most of the things he talks about and when I don't I immediately get it. Why? Because I have put in the work as a mucisian.

[@1spitfirepilot]

Hans Memling the point, surely, is to be intelligent and challenging, but also as expansive and as accessible as the material allows. There's a spectrum of understanding out there, indeed, many different ways of engaging with music. It's possible that even you might not grasp something that someone else does grasp; humility and openness are important in music, as well as mastery and pride.

[@hansmemling7605]

@@1spitfirepilot 1 are you suggesting I lack humility? If so what part of what I said gave you that impression? 2 you are agreeing with me in case you haven't noticed. I called him out on his blanket statement that other youtubers make unintelligent content and that this channel is they only one that does. I simply told him that he cannot speak for everyone and I gave myself as an example. 3 you said' the point is...' point of what and who?

[@paxwallacejazz]

I've always felt that regardless of the virtical environment melodicism can inhabit that place. Also that melody is an inspired thing that can in the moment at least transcend all. Maybe it's an improvisers reality. I like the idea of broad melodies in really diabolical scientificish environments.

[@Gnurklesquimp]

Adhering to arbitrary rules/patterns when writing non-functional stuff is one of my favorite things to do when out of ideas. A lot of the time, it sounds organized but bad, but there's very often little sections, rearrangements and additions/ommisions that get me going to write more freely.

[@rineric3214]

I found when I impatiently wrote some pre-classical music that I naturally went to by nature that I want to use chords and interesting phrases of singing or singing-like instrumentalism and I listen to contemporary classical music and its just sequences of effects, never a melody being rigorously explored. I find as a happy amateur that the act of writing that other kind of classical music is like doing the rhythm guitar part of a pop song out in front without melody. You should be equally good at both. Classical needs melody.

[@7177YT]

yah, I agree nerdier = more interresting.. go with the metrics and let your inner geek run wild! seriously: I enjoy your videos, there's always new stuff to discover and stimulating thoughts toponder. (:

[@DarkSideofSynth]

I like that city buzz pice of yours. I guess it would have perfectly fitted in a mid 50s - early 60s film, like an opening scene with traffic, busy city life. A Hitchcock film comes to mind.... Build a time machine and try your luck ;)

[@lettersquash]

Absolutely fascinating. I'm almost completely non-nerd in my approach to music (I write stuff for guitar and piano), but the nerdy stuff about it makes sense to me at some deeper level. I was gratified to see that David Lang quote about not wanting his emotional state being shifted all the time - that's why I struggle with Beethoven and a lot of romantic music. Give me a Bach sarabande any day...or a fugue if I'm in the mood. I love folk and fingerpicking too.

[@madmoonrabbit]

You're a gift on you tube. A proper gift.

[@mumiemonstret]

I'm grateful that Beethoven and Brahms weren't as concerned with "intellectual integrity" as contemporary composers are... (7:00)

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

moreover they aren't applying much intellect. They think they are being clever but in reality simply demonstrating what a poor grasp of math and acoustics they have.

[@oscarmosterd]

@@edwardgivenscomposer and music is about math?

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

@@oscarmosterd it is when we are pretending to be clever about it, which face it is all the poor little sad sacks who claim to write atonal music have left. Divide the octave into 12 parts and you WILL arrive at the dreaded tonic dominant relationship sooner or later or go through conniption fits. Because of math - yes. If the dubious goal is to AVOID tonality simply split the octave into 11 parts, or 13. Done! The question is WHY? Don't get me wrong I like a bit of atonal music, but I find it delicious and ironic that the one thing it's promoters cling to - the supposed "complexity" turns out to be a big farce . Or did Schoenberg really discover something to "guarantee the supremacy of German music for 1000 years"? I'm sorry but it's a bit like reading a long boring essay where the writer missed a logical fallacy in the first paragraph. (Ayn Rand springs to mind) Sophistry doesn't make great art. That said sometimes a misconceived technique can still produce great music. Webern for example. But that's sensitive intuition. Now that I think about it - what is a musician? An intuitive mathematician, among other things. Every time you sing, or say, tune your guitar, you are dealing with vibration of the air at certain frequencies. For example a fifth vibrates at 1.5X the root, or a ratio of 3:2. We don't think about it intellectually, we just do it. Sorry for the long answer and of course it's not just about math.

[@marizacabral5141]

It's so funny, I would have used the same "intellectual integrity" arguments in the same way David Bruce used them, to argue for the exact opposite! I value long melodic lines and logical melodic developments (as opposed to a pressed wood board of short motifs) precisely because of the internal coherence and "intellectual integrity"!

[@sozeytozey]

@@edwardgivenscomposer I could probably listen to you talk for hours

[@georgehenry8391]

One of the most interesting discussions resulting to music that I have heard in quote a while. Thanks.

[@Mr.Batsu12]

Very cool to see someone else mention Josh Turner. He's not only a great guitar player but I think he's becoming a really good song writer over the last few years.

[@buteverybodycallsmegiorgio]

It's interesting that you'd be self-conscious about your tastes and personality coming through on your channel as I feel you're one of the most honest and genuine youtuber out there. Less artificial, if that makes sense. Keep on being you, homie! I really enjoy your deep knowledge of your art; and the clear, entertaining form you present it.

[@dariusmolark6820]

i find most of the 'new classical' music on radio q, nyc, mostly lyrical. alas, i come from an earlier period than most of you and still am enamored of straight ahead jazz, hard bop, hey, count basie, jimmy lunceford. and thanks for the folk references, as i grew through that period.and acoustic finger picking and songs remain pure beauty.

[@RasiRon]

As usual people miss the point. We need all the colors of the rainbow to blend them in infinite ways. Thanks for this informative video.

[@KevDKR666]

From 8:30 onwards.. I'm sold, genuine dude. Superb video to boot. Subscribed!

[@luisumana1456]

I've heard light moving! And I recognized it as played by Hilary Hahn, for whom the piece was composed for. It gave me a little thrill to encounter the piece here in your video.

[@lelandsmith983]

Thanks for sharing your insights and wisdom. Especially the Funk

[@wyattwahlgren8883]

I'm so glad that you used La Fille aux Cheveux de Lin as an example when you mentioned Debussy.

[@musicartgeek]

The question “why is there so little melody in modern classical music?” has a bit of a semantic trap: The definition of “classical“ music. There’s a great deal of modern melodic “classical“ music, in fact it’s probably the most popular form and the most successful form. However, this music has been written for a specific audience and situation: the world of cinema. One reason I love the violinist Angèle Dubeau and the ensemble La Pietà is that they cheerfully ignore this distinction, and perform and record collections of beautiful, often-melodic “classical“ music from the worlds of cinema, gaming, and “serious“ composers. Would love to see you cover music for cinema, from Korngold to Richter!

[@lwskiner]

I have asked myself the 'where's the melody?' question many times. Many absolutely spell-binding technical performances still have me wondering what exactly are they trying for us to visualize. One of the most obvious examples is the direction that film composing has gone in recent years. You are going to be hard pressed to remember a melodic approach that Barry, Goldsmith, Williams or Morricone gave us time after time. The pieces in films today are bass and noise dependent. There are great melodic approaches such as the score for A Quiet Place but they are the exception.

[@ts8538]

I find this very helpful. Thank you!

[@e.v.martinez5083]

David, you always inspire with serious thought out points and humorous silly quips. I want to grow up to be like youl

[@johnomarlarnelladams7519]

Thank you, Mr. Bruce; for bringing the ways of writing melodies and the foreground of how specific pieces relate to how we digest or take in our listening pleasure of classical music. It was a great video overall!

[@satyu131089]

Hi David, greetings from South India. It's so nice to learn that you're interested and knowledgeable in Indian music. I'm curious if you've heard much about the composer Ilayaraja of South India. He's most popular for his film scores and film songs, but a couple of his "music for music" albums are an interesting blend of the western methods of harmony and counterpoint and the Indian method of raga. Their names are "Nothing but Wind" and "How to Name It". Please continue the great work with your videos!

[@topologyrob]

"How to name it" is a very cool album. I first heard it in Thiruvananthapuram in 1992 and was blown away.

[@polenc7167]

It seems that "modern music" has one guiding principle which is through out anything that smells of the past. Also, a pursuit that says "look at me!, look at me!". I am still waiting for the "Great Leap Forward" in music composition.

[@finnblack5301]

These videos are just gem after gem, I really appreciate your very clear dedication to curiosity. Amazing, David.

[@activistarts7722]

However Indian classical music is full of melodies. The most defined one is called a bandish and can be hinted and heard in the beginning improvisational alap portion of the performance before the bandish and tabla portion come in. Even some alap phrases could be considered a melody.

[@DjSoulKing]

David! I must say your youtube channel is a saviour to traditional classical music! :)

[@duramirez]

Hey another Brazilian that appreciates music o/ cheers :D

[@leonpetrich5864]

Before watching the video: The fact, that there is little to no melodies in contemporary music is my biggest problem with the genre. I like experimental stuff but the melodies are so important in my opinion. They are, what remains in your head for years to come and give the pieces their character and also allow a development in the story, that is being told, by developing said melody. Sometimes I get melodies of pieces stuck in my head for multiple days, even though I havent heard that piece in years. I dont remember a lot from the contemporary concerts Ive been to. Recently I was in hamburg at the Elbphilharmonie, the concert hall has incredible acustics, even better than the "Große Musikvereinssaal" in Vienna. I remember a few parts of those pieces, luckily the ones I liked the most but I cant listen to it again in my head. This is why I cant really identify with Contemporary Music and therefore, dont ever deal with it.

[@jillian7084]

What if that actually is the point. When I listen to amelodic contemporary music, I don't necessarily want to hear a melody I could then remember and have stuck in my head. I listen to it mostly for the spontaneity of that very moment. What do I feel when I hear this, or that? Do I think a lot about what's going on technically or acoustically, or do I let myself drift into the sensations that come to me? It isn't a melody I could sing that's then stuck in my head, but that rather is an emotion that gets stuck in my body and mind. The moment became a blurry memory, kind of a dream, and that becomes really inspiring whatever the kind of music I play or write then. :)

[@augusto7681]

I understand your point of view but at same time I like classical contemporary because of video game. I spent a lot of time playing sim city. This game was full of minimalistic pieces. So my brain always associate it with the emotion of my childhood.

[@violetavalery]

I think there are little melodies beacuse composers today are too conformist to a bunch oh guys who dictated avant-garde principles some decades ago. They put on these straigt jackets called "timbre" and " texture" and they leave no room for true imagination.

[@augusto7681]

@@violetavalery and why only exist imagination on melody ?

[@violetavalery]

@@augusto7681 I didn't say that, I said they repeat avant garde patterns and don't use their imagination to come up with something different

[@classycompositions932]

That is one of the reasons why I started writing my own classical music: I couldn't find anyone still alive making new classical music that has nice melodies and just sounds interesting overall. Reading from the comments it might actually be a good thing that I learned it from an internet course rather than a conservatory. Some composers like Ludovico Einaudi and Yiruma are okay... but their music is so simple and repetitive compared to Mozart and Beethoven and the like.

[@alexcordogan780]

Same here- for me it was Rachmaninoff/Tchaikovsky- a collection of mostly their works still stands above most else to me and I wish that style had never died out

[@btnt5209]

I agree. I write in a similar style to Mozart (according to some professors) although I'd like to move more towards Mendelssohn

[@manuelmoreira8575]

If you can't find any living composers writing music that "sounds interesting", then I look forward to ear your music...

[@Alexagrigorieff]

@@manuelmoreira8575 Alma Deutscher (born in 2005). Seriously. Check, for example, her CDs on Amazon (released in 2013 and 2019). Check her piano sonata written at age of 6 (also recorded on 2013 CD)

[@johnrobertson1795]

@@quaternity6943 Try this then. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j16lqnavhL98h5o it is the slow movement of my 1st Symphony. I have written 5 and all have been recorded, although the issuing of the last two has been delayed by the current pandemic. There are quite a few of my works available on youtube. I need to be better known!

[@musicartgeek]

Your videos are excellent and beautifully accessible

[@bb1111116]

Contemporary academic classical music often has become completely mathematical and atonal. It is for a very small audience. Arvo Pärt is an exception to this. His music is tonal and there is a commonly understood beauty to it. It is not a surprise that for several years Pärt has been the most performed living classical composer in the world.

[@macleadg]

I believe there’s a simple answer to why melody has been lost - snobbery. Beethoven set the stage for this: he knew his music was for a later age, and might not please the audience of his day. But Beethoven was Beethoven and most composers... aren’t him. So, he gets a pass; others, maybe not. The notion has grown to the point of absurdity: the less pleasing the music, the more profound it must be ( or so the fallacious logic would have us believe). The less you like it, the shallower you are. Melody is often the most pleasing and ingratiating (thus, “shallow”) aspects of music. Dispense with tunes, and you’ve taken a great first step to faux profundity. You also avoid the very difficult task of writing a melody, especially one that (gasp!) people might actually like. Also, if you make your music as technically difficult as possible - preferably impossible - you show everyone that your artistic imagination exceeds the surly bounds of the lowly instruments you call upon to execute your oh-so-deep creation. Having said all this, I still like experimental music; I just wish modern composers would, well, get over themselves a bit.

[@qwertyTRiG]

This doesn't apply only to music. It's something I've seen myself in modern art, and to some extent in literature. (I read far more books than I consume modern art, but I've had personal interactions with more artists than writers.)

[@lawsonj39]

I'm guessing that this situation, which affects all arts, can be traced back to Gautier's "l'art pour l'art" doctrine, which encouraged artists to ignore connections between reality and in favor of pursuing the internal development of the art itself. The development of art forms tends to emphasize structure--form, if you like--over content.

[@Superphilipp]

Beethoven wrote some gorgeous melodies. This myth started, I believe, with Leonhard Bernstein. Just because there are famous Beethoven compositions that don't center around great melodies does not mean He wasn't a great composer of melodies.

[@Superphilipp]

I do believe you're right though. The absolute primacy of motivic development in much music is partly due to deference to Beethoven.

[@tongpoo8985]

This so much.

[@jakeoconnor3420]

Great video David. Love your piece Night Parade, too- extremely enjoyable to listen to!

[@orrcazz]

When Doves Cry is a banger eternal, you take that back.

[@gnralZTT]

I need to find the full version of Night Parade on youtube. I need it in my life

[@michaelschmitt2427]

I like your videos a lot, so don't change!

[@epiczeven6378]

omg "The Brand New Heavies" sounds amazing, ty for the suggestion :)

[@i.sanromang]

Those of us who write classical music in the old style also exist

[@xElMery]

God, your mic setup is absolutely awesome

[@manuelmoreira8575]

Melody, traditionally speaking, is just a way to organize horizontally one of many sound parameters: pitch (among rhythm/duration, intensity, timbre and space). So in order to create music, you can express yourself even without pitch at all (or using it, but not change it), let alone without melody...! As Bruce said, composing with melody derives from a very specific tradition. And the reason most contemporary composers tend not to use it or avoid it at all, is to explore and express themselves through rhythm, intensity, timbre, space, and other pitch related tools like harmony, modalism, etc.

[@topologyrob]

Not really - melody is deeply connected with humanity, as our speech is melodic, and our bodies resound with melody. It's not just a sound parameter.

[@joaoluisesquivel2810]

Your doing good, don't worry. Just keep at it. :)

[@jaccochrysler]

Thank you David for passing on your knowledge. I get a lot from it.

[@buddhabillybob]

Great video. I love the broad range of classical music--from lush melody to David Lang. Music is a vast territory. Thanks for a great video.

[@sammikinsderp]

I enjoyed your nerdy video, keep on keeping on. I'm gonna subscribe and check out more of your video essays.

[@5kdamian]

Wonderful video. You explain complex concepts in a very approachable way. I also like Josh Turner Guitar - the finger pciking style of playing guitar is my favorite way of listening to guitar.

[@GalleryOfChameleon]

Amazing video as always :)

[@zacharygh]

Is there anywhere we can find the full recording of "Night Parade"? I greatly enjoyed the clip you played, and want to hear more. Fantastic video, as always.

[@hansfritz7067]

I was about to ask the same!

[@WadWizard]

Im also interested

[@nadcho]

Same here!

[@Engy_Wuck]

I'm also interested. The Extract on your homepage sounds great - but I want to hear the complete work.

[@cisium1184]

Yeah I only heard a snippet but it sounded good.

[@ZibboTheGreat]

Here’s a question for the next q&a: What’s your opinion on incorrectly spelling enharmonic notes for a performer’s ease of reading? Like say you’re trying to spell an E augmented triad across multiple voices. Technically, whoever is playing the fifth of the chord (the B#) should have their part read B#, but without seeing the context of the rest of the chord on their part, a C natural would be much more easy to read. I’ve written both ways and gotten pushback on both sides. Thoughts?

[@kenhimurabr]

Depends on context. In certain contexts, enharmonics doesn't cause any change. In others (like Liszt or Rachmaninoff), a change of a enharmonic note can imply a new chord or structure.

[@chrisbanyan3564]

@@kenhimurabr And it affects intonation - mostly an f sharp for example is closer to a g and a g flat is closer to an f at least in stringed instruments.

[@javiermedina5313]

It's pretty bad for people who is learning harmony and music theory, but for people who knows everything already, it's ok, not a problem at all, when I compose I just use my ears, I don't need to use intelectuallism anymore, but obviously you need to get this skill by experience and study.

[@julialesnichycomposer4965]

Thank you Bruce! I noticed that there are less melodies in modern compositions, but I like to write music with melodies.. I just like to write melodies.. I think that short music pieces by Tchaikovsky for Nutcracker may be an example of how to write symphonic music with melodies.. I write them following the form aba', when the third part may be a repetition or a variation of the first part. You may find a piece Longing for heaven on my channel on youtube. There may be a composition with a melody and its variations, but I think a further development of a melody with a different harmony and modulations is always a challenge.. for instance, I really love Beethhoven Fourth symphony, the second movement as an example of a beautiful melody and its development

[@edwardgivenscomposer]

The agony of modern music by Henry Pleasants covers some of this. Wagner thought he was a great composer because of his recitative. Today, audiences sit through all the dreadful recitative to hear the Love Duet from Tristan and Isolde, or Ride of the Valkyries...

[@pablov1973]

I've been thinking about the melody component in the new classical music from a long time ago. I believe (maybe I'm wrong) that for most listener the problem is not that melodies are not longer anymore. Nobody will expect something expansive like the second theme of the Unfinished or the extreme beauty of the second theme of Pathetique. I believe that what people miss is a melody segment to whistle after the concert, because the melody forms of today are quite elusive. I have listen many works where the melody is very difficult to keep, to remember note by note, but what I retain is feeling created by that melody segment with the rest of the elements of the music that are sounding together, i.e: in the first movement of your "Gumboots", maybe I don´t remember every melodic gesture, I retain the climax created by the whole ensemble, the Violin Concerto by Maxwell Davies, it's so beautifull, but I don´t remember any specific melodic segment, the same at the very touching moment, close to the ending of Lutoslawski's Fourth Symphony, when the two violins plays a very sad and very nostalgic melodic lines, at that point, it doesn't matter if you can sing this moment later, the whole music moves you inside.

[@Vossst]

Really dug the excerpt at the end. It gave me Moondog vibes and that's always welcome.

[@sambulls]

What an absolutely amazing video! I really appreciate your honestly and self awareness but like you said a great deal of the work one considers important had to be done with love and fancy in mind. Ie you really gotta like what you’re doing and do it for that reason... this has been the theme of my week lately

[@maryseeker7590]

I enjoy hearing recommendations from such a highly trained musician. Plz continue recommending more. I love Arabic music : Natacha Atlas, Amr Diab, etc

[@VictorOrlandoNieto]

David, thanks for your videos; they are phenomenally instructional. Bring on the nerdy! Loving the funk influence.

[@EclecticSceptic]

Night Parade is really cool.

[@jonathanredman8497]

Hi David. I’ve arrived late to your KZbin channel but I’m really enjoying your presentation style. I’ve learnt a lot.

[@ChrisLodyMusic]

Thanks for your thoughts, especially talking about being introverted. It’s something I’m fighting right now and striving to do more vlog style videos despite this. I’m an enormous synth nerd so I’ve got that going for me at least 😁

[@sammikinsderp]

To the subject of who you are writing music for, it's very tough. Sometimes you want WANT to write music for virtuosic and academic qualities, but it may have little appeal outside of the academic circle. Which is why so many of us shy away from odd transpositions, intervals, modes, and shifting time signatures; and why pop music is so prevalent. Simply because it's easily palletable. This isn't a knock on modern popular music, rather it's a tip of the hat to the simplicity of it; that the minimalism of our current popular music culture can give way to some fairly diverse art. Staying in a single time signature, in a single key, and limiting to only a handful of intervals, some standout artists have made some beautiful art. (typing on my phone, forgive typos, and lack of references, but I'd be happy to discuss more at length) I'm going to listen to both of those artists you mentioned at the start of this video. I'm highly intrigued at... Non-human-made music

[@echoes6092]

Oh my gosh so many wonderful topics in this video! great job & keep doing super nerdy stuff :)

[@bluenetmarketing]

This is a great video!

[@Hjominbonrun]

It sounds like, from the video, that maybe, the melody we constantly get from Bach, Handel, Mozart through Chopin up to Rachmaninov is an exception rather than the rule.

[@ottodachat]

If you ever want a great adventure in complete atonality and an exercise in atemporality, I strongly suggest listening to Karlheinz Stockhausen's Gruppen fur Drei Orchestre. (Groups for 3 Orchestras) Not one iota of melody or cognitive rhythm. I have never been the same since I first listened to this work and realized that such a composition is different each time you listen to it.

[@ottodachat]

Probably not, atonal anything is hard to listen to. I am a bit of a masochist and will try to listen to something like G. Ligeti's Volumina from start to finish. An acquired taste and not for the faint of heart= modern/atonal/avant garde music.

[@Lynkevmusic]

insightful video, as a beginner composer and musician I must say that I find myself drawn to the more melodic phrasing. At the risk of being 'dated', my sensibilities are more drawn to melodic shapes and how harmonies interact with the imagined shape. Coming from a classical background, I have the thought that so many melodies have already been written or as the great songsmith Bob Dylan said "there's no new music". I'm not sure I agree.

[@Belfreyite]

Some modern composers have championed minimalism. They demonstrate precision and flawless meter. Arising from that, their music has a definite trancelike effect. This itself is beautiful. It is great that the likes of Steve Reich and John Adams have taken up the baton.

[@paulcassidy4559]

Thank you so much for making this video! Really interesting and well-articulated.

[@david2618]

I was only interested in watching your videos but Night Parade seems cool.

[@ryano.5149]

There is a quote by a friend of mine that I really like: "If you need the score in front of you to appreciate a piece of music, the composer has failed."

[@ShadeCandle]

I'm loving your channel, and will have to find "Night Parade" for a proper listen!

[@scottandrewhutchins]

I remember Peter Greenaway referring to "the evil of the melody" slightly archly, but the video of his speech at Butler University (Indianapolis) is available, and he didn't say that, although it's possible I heard him say it before or after, because I did see him after and possibly before he went up, although I never spoke directly to him. He did say that melody is commercial and needs to fall away to create true art. He also calls for figuration to leave painting and narrative to leave film.

[@qwertyTRiG]

There are novels without narrative. Most are critical and commercial failures. The exceptions are by James Joyce.

[@topologyrob]

It's rather an artificial stance I'd suggest, but artists need their own stances sometimes to get good work done. But it cancels out a hell of a lot of excellent art, his notion.

[@simon-davidcapusneanu7398]

Where can I find the full "Night Parade" of yours ?? It sounds really great

[@adityasinghverma4765]

Thank you, this was amazing!

[@Dhooparty]

Great video! That Night Parade piece of yours is awesome

[@stefan1024]

One basic but effective method to reduce the own ego's influence in music is just to include other egos. When you develop and play music in a group with democratic structure, the result might not be completely without ego, but it will become less egocentric and more open and social.

[@ec0ec0ec000]

Could you go further in this topic if you know about it? I'd love to know about these methods

[@stefan1024]

@@ec0ec0ec000 It's really no magic, basically what happens in jam sessions when the musicians don't focus on solos but on group play. Instead of one musical mind (=ego) you have a musical group with creative (social) interactions. There is not one ego that composed the music, but in the end it was composed anyway. Of cause it doesn't work with every kind of ensemble and genre.

[@Byron101_]

# We need more melody lines!!!

[@1spitfirepilot]

Excellent.

[@MiloDC]

Shout out for Brand New Heavies!

[@TheApostleofRock]

It may interest you then to know that I grew up very near Prince's studio. For a couple of summers, I would drive past it every to and from my classes.

[@AlanKey86]

Hi David - are you going to review Whiplash? It seems to be the in thing

[@DaveDexterMusic]

It needs no review. It's basically perfect as it is. Hi, Alan :)

[@DBruce]

Ha! Wasn't a massive fan I'm afraid.

[@btat16]

David Bruce Composer That seems to be the consensus amongst many professional musicians so you don’t have to feel guilty:)

[@AlanKey86]

@@DBruce - tell us more! Did your dislike stem from anything specifically music-related in the film or was it simply not enjoying the film as a film? Also, Anias Mitchell is wonderful. As is your microrhythms video.

[@AlanKey86]

@@DaveDexterMusic Hi Dave :)

[@Doutsoldome]

Hey, I have a very selective taste when it comes to contemporary music; most things turn me off. But your _Night Parade_ piece sounds very interesting. I liked a lot what I heard of it. I saw that I could get the score in your website, which is cool. Is there some recording of the full piece I could look for?

[@titob.yotokojr.9337]

So how will these music stand the test of time? A hundred years from now, I believe Bach, Mozart, Beethoven will still be around. Will these music still be around?

[@machida5114]

Atonal music has been around for over 100 years. However, the audience is small.

[@boomerhippie]

I see in this video behind you several instruments, oboe, recorders, french horn, trumbone, bass guitar, and ukulele. If you play them all, I'm impressed. The oboe and french horn are difficult instruments to learn.

[@CalendulaF]

That piece "Nigh parade" of yours: Wow! Has some serious Prokofjev vibes. Love it! Where can I listen to the whole thing?

[@Josephjohnferreira]

Love the Hadestown shoutout! So good

[@odconstant]

To quote Brian Sewell, we are in a full-bloom post-skill paradigm.