Why It’s Hard To Fix Live Service Games (feat. Diablo IV) | Spot On

At gamescom 2023, Tam and Lucy caught up with Diablo’s Rod Fergusson and Chris Wilson to ask about the process of fixing a live service game.
#gaming #gamespot #diablo4
It’s fair to say that the first season of Diablo IV wasn’t a strong one. Many players were unimpressed with the season’s unexpected nerfs and its lackluster endgame. While community sentiment improved with the announcement of the game’s second season, Blizzard still has a ways to go to implement necessary changes.
Tam and Lucy talk to the Diablo team at gamescom 2023 and ask about how developers assess what changes need to be made, how tricky it is to do it, and the pros and cons of being transparent with the community.

[@kancheeb.979]

The easiest way to fix a live service game is to not have one in the first place.

[@fortresstraining]

Those greedy pigs gotta chase that money.

[@averytucker790]

YES!!! Finally, someone who isn't trying to find a compromise with live service games.

[@outlaw0987654321]

came here to make this very same comment. if they just stopped being so greedy and just made solid single player games that had no online requirement they would make a ton. Maybe not as much but still a lot. They could also stand to try to find ways to manage budgets so they wouldn't need as much sales just to break even.

[@youneszniber9129]

Agree, why do it like that i the beginning to try to change it afterwards ?

[@randomnobodyplaythrough7770]

It's only because those Diablo devs are incompetent. Warzone and Fortnite are doing fine.

[@ShiveringEroticKingBanana]

$60 game with $20 skins and they say things like "we always put the player first."

[@gabriatus9508]

70 dollars actually

[@troylawson1902]

​@@gabriatus9508yeah I paid just about $80 ish with taxes and I wish I never would have gotten it but the beta SP story really hooked me. But never again I'm done with them .

[@Pointman11111]

​@@gabriatus9508or 80€ and 20€ skins

[@THEF4LLOFM4N]

$90 in the UK for standard edition

[@DelBoy573]

If only blizzard had some experience making live service games.

[@Eric-ld4mz]

Seems like everyone who had experience is gone now

[@LLAAPPSSEE]

...and making those 3 other Diablo games. Edit* (4 w/ immortal)

[@captainfach]

True true. It really takes a company who has been making content for a game consistently for years to have these sorts of skills. Hey, they should have gotten help from whomever made world of warcraft!🤣

[@mudkip737]

Didn’t realize i was at the doctors office. I paid 100$ for some dev to tell me to “take my medicine.” Listen, games are like drugs. We’re all seeking that high, NOT medicine. Also, ngl, listening to devs talk about how they’re looking at data to gage their audience just reinforces my bias belief that the devs don’t have a clear vision of what makes ARPGs fun for the fans. “Oh we’re looking at player engagement with the battlepass and the shop.” Please… come back down to planet earth. The monetization mold has corrupted your minds. Jfc.

[@gamerzwithjobs330]

Gotta love how rod is taking about engaging with the battlepass and engaging with the store, instead of giving more content other then NM dungeons. Path of exile 2 can’t come soon enough

[@stanley909]

Why it's difficult: *Because they put in mind mtx first before user experience. *They didn't apply the same proven formula from similar games or at least improve upon it. (separate inventory for diff. kind of loot & loadout slots comes to mind) *Purposely creating a problem just to sell you a solution.

[@Tyler-hs9eu]

What if people kept playing a game simply because its good and how its designed keeps you coming back, not because of live service systems in place to generate fomo and mechanics to make it more grindy

[@lionablaze8747]

Live service is one of the worse things to happen to video gaming.

[@ryud0]

"Why blizzard keeps making excuses" should be the name of this video

[@Copeharder00]

“Why any live service game keeps making excuses” should be the name of the video.

[@justinwhite2725]

3:28 "everybody loves candy but you can't have candy all the time." Uhm. This is entertainment. It avsolutely should be candy all the time for the time that you are playing. 4:17 salad is for when I'm not gaming.

[@Hackrifice]

Srsly

[@ravantgarde1899]

Yeah I don’t think I really understood what they meant by candy and salad if I’m being honest

[@mudkip737]

For real, this guy’s a game dev, not my gd doctor. 🙄🙄🙄 What’s next? What does he give kids at the door on Halloween? Salad packs?

[@Hackrifice]

@@ravantgarde1899 I don't think they did either 🤣

[@genji_shimada]

@@mudkip737 This guy's a doctor, not a game dev.

[@averytucker790]

Also, I love how the company that made WoW, Diablo III, StarCraft II, Heroes of the Storm, Hearth Stone, OverWatch, Diablo Immortal, and Call of Duty Warzone. Is STILL having a hard time managing a live service game. It's like hearing a woman of 7 children. Still having problems taking care of a child.

[@Saxtalk.]

Tam and Lucy are the best! We need more segments with them very professional and charismatic duo.

[@caprise-music6722]

4 shizle!

[@Mikeecho77]

Data points, battle pass, shops, learning, mistakes.. just make a fun game and add some more fun stuff. If they had season 1 ready to go why the huge nerf the day before? This is all corporate speak and just saying " it will get fun one day, promise, please consume more and think less"

[@juper5052]

And a small group can be loud. The entire community hated what you did with the update

[@Soulcatcher30]

Because games as a service is a terrible practice. Keep it away from singleplayer games/modes and leave it to mmos.

[@Aethelbeorn]

Well said.

[@stuartmorley6894]

It doesn't have to be. But I agree, the need for it to be rammed into every conceivable space is annoying and ruins a bunch of games that would be better as single player. I get why publishers want them. Having one constantly running successful live service can fill in the finances in the fallow time between single player releases but a lot of time it just feeds into greed.

[@Brotelho]

Live Service isn't inherently a bad thing. I'm all for dynamic games that change over time. Lets be real, new game genres aren't popping up all the time like they used to and new games aren't making leaps and bounds anymore. It doesn't suit every style or genre of games, but live service with an ARPG is kind of the evolution of things in the genre. Look at POE, that games has changed lots over the years.

[@Bamfum]

Yes let's defend diablo 4 Said nobody ever.

[@Yamszilla]

Love how realistic you both are with game development and criticism of games.

[@LLAAPPSSEE]

The telemetry is telling us we need more storefront with a game tacked on.

[@GmodCaboose56]

Who else skipped the parts with the dev's speaking and listened only to Tamoor and Lucy?

[@averytucker790]

I don't. Because I always want to remember how out of touch some of these devs sound in these videos. Like Jesus. These guys are talking like Blizzard and Activision never made a live service game before. Let alone a popular one.

[@GmodCaboose56]

@@averytucker790 That's pretty much one of the reasons I skipped those parts, I'm at a point where I just don't have the patience to listen to what western AAA developers/publishers have to say. That, and the excuses and empty apologies they make are just tiresome.

[@giorgospvl]

Phrases like "telemetry data" and "we have to undergo certain rocedures" show that modern games miss the point of games being fun first, and everything else follows. The "telemetry data" is the reason they nerfed Diablo 4 to oblivion a few patches back, and "undergoing procedures" is the reason we can't have the quality of life improvements that are coming in season 2, right now. Games are supposed to be fun and being a GAME first. When your game is fun and you keep making sure it stays that way, then players are a lot more positive to you having it as a storefront.

[@benwait9217]

It’s a funny thought to think that we’re asking them to make the game fun and their response is “It’s just not possible, sorry 😢”

[@Pointman11111]

"Why isn't it possible?"

[@JKSmith-qs2ii]

I care so little for live service games.

[@justinwhite2725]

Live service is supposed to be so you can fix things. Except that they don't. Pretty much done with live service unless it is intrinsically group content (a proper mmo like Ashes of Creation or something) Edit: oh wait they did fix things. They fixed how quickly it was to complete content so that people would continue to play the game longer and spend more time and money.

[@CosmicRupture]

The fact they thought a live service was a good idea for Diablo is just disappointing already. No one asked for it and it's terrible idea in general for any game. I still play diablo 3 over Diablo 4 just because it has offline and in my opinion still better then 4.

[@nicomiranda659]

As Rod Ferguson describes it, it seems the proportions in teams assigned about the problems the game faces are not optimal at all. They should have 1 team only in season content (since it is understandable they cannot close that line of revenue), 1 for the live game, and all the rest on an expansion. It is the only way they will regain the lost users and they better come up with an improved end game / mechanics not just content.

[@kevinsims5791]

I think their team setup is good. Seasons would be every 6 months instead of 3 if they had 1 team for seasons, that is way too long in-between seasons and the players would be even more frustrated. An expansion would probably happen around the 1 to 2 year mark so 1 team for that is good. 1 for the live game to fix and make changes.

[@sandman7ify]

they are incredibly stingy with good loot. Consider the difficulty of nightmare dungeons they should give better loot. also they should have a group finder to help players with difficult content

[@hunewearl8924]

So they view us as children asking for candy every day? well I will be moving on from this "game"

[@Aphexuk]

Great vid, I liked to replace the word blizzard with Bungie and replace diablo 4 with destiny 2.

[@novaenforcer1563]

You can replace it with any company and videogame

[@crazimax]

Do some real journalism and asked them tough questions like you know, why did you guys implement dark patterns so players can accidentally activate their seasonal pass

[@novaenforcer1563]

You might as well be talking to a brick, they wont go with hard questions or they would be blocked by the developers from talking to them and getting early access to their games

[@GamerRMT]

Why do I get the vibe that Rod was hungry when he gave the interview?

[@Norgatron]

The game is dead allready absolutely shocking everyone said d3 was bad d4 is a disaster

[@chaseaustinmusic]

I felt more of a disconnect; developer just stated that they look over surveys, numbers, and whats around the ben. Hopefully Im wrong but I didn’t hear any “we play test our game” or “watch other players play our game”. There is just soo much of “what we plan to deliver” instead “what can make this experience better”.

[@coreywilder1564]

Imagine Blizzard hiring these two for damage control for their failure that is the current state of D4.

[@stuartmorley6894]

They haven't hired them for this. They've been working on the game for years. I don't know what you really wanted them to say. People expect that when they have an idea it's brilliant and should be implemented instantly and it definitely won't stuff up the balance or be something others don't like.

[@billjim7288]

That’s the whole point of live service so you DONT have to fix anything.

[@AndreaRaffellini]

Push back the camera, the only service D4 needs.

[@its_jimbooh_no6572]

Bruh is talking about medicine. Like why did you sell me a sick/unwell game? Also at 9:28 explains a lot. Basically admits they didn’t care about past feedback of games with the same title and made a whole new game monetized for todays market and slapped a Diablo tag on it.

[@EnemyOfEldar]

You guys are great! Best GameSpot.

[@RazielTheUnborn]

Having 3 to 4 teams developing different aspects of the content is why your game is getting poorly received 💀. There is no cohesion.

[@m0zzy71]

The best eyebrows in the business, (lucys arnt bad either)..

[@eXpr3s]

How is can they call it ” sweaping changes” when its basicly fixing whats Been dead and broken from launch that should have worked on launch? Its not changes its a excuse name for fixing what does not plain down right not work

[@Americaninparis2012]

Many of the changes the players want isn't something Blizzard could not have forseen and should have implemented these prior the game launch. So saying it takes time to make changes is really idiotic. Did they really think 4 stash tabs were going to be enough for an ARPG where the goal is to collect gear for the legendary power? Also why didn't the stash have any search function; did they really need the players to demand this function before they reacted? My biggest gripe is the lack of social functions. For a game they claimed was going to be a social game, MMO-like game, it has no group find. D4 is less social than D3 was. The best part of D4 was the campaign and it looks like Blizzard put a lot of effort into that aspect. The rest look as if they were slapped together to meet a self-imposed deadline and pushed out.

[@BillNyeGuy]

The problem is this can turn into the Master Chief Collection or even Halo Infinite where it gets better but it’s years later and no one cares. To some degree that happened with Cyberpunk 2077 until the Netflix Anime came out and blew everyone’s mind with how good it is.

[@chaosdragun1608]

The main thing they could have done which would have saved them a ton of bad experiences would have been early access or a closed community testing period instead of using live game feedback. The community will always come up with more ways to break the game. limiting that feedback to level 25 is just laughably insufficient which we are now seeing. Personally if they had taken an extra few months to just bring people in under NDA with the implicit goal to "break the game" we would likely have a much better result. Yes it takes a while to fix issues but the failure to take steps to prevent issues in the first place that seem obvious to many is what is most discouraging.

[@crazyfarmer1051]

This was a very good video. Thank’s!👍🏽👍🏽

[@ShingledeckerCasey]

Blizzard must have paid a lot of money to have this bit. This is just sad. When Rod said that all of the negative stuff was coming from a small, loud part of the community... oh god. Dead product, and soon to be unplayed game. Thank the universe for the Baldur's Gate 3's and Path of Exile game companies of the world. People that actually want to produce a good game that they would love to play themselves.

[@madgamer9068]

Can someone let me know whats the issue with diablo 4, i remember playing the beta like a single player game and it was fun. Is there a issue with diablo now that would cause me no to enjoy it in that aspect .

[@kevinfinnerty8414]

No, the game is Very enjoyable. And you should play it. The Campaign is around 10-12 hours. Great Cut Scenes, Very fun. Game play Solid. And very addicting. The game had a Very positive buzz around it during Beta and Launch and a month After launch. The “Problems” started when some KZbin Content creators saw that their was Traction to be gained by being Negative. And having Provocative thumbnail Titles. So the Hate train started and grew. Just Farming D4 Bad Clicks. The super Casuals who bought the game because of Megan Fox and KFC commercials. Who are new to Diablo and arpg’s saw no point in the end game. And the try hard No life’s who played for 14 hours a day. Got bored too quick. Because their isn’t enough end game. ALL the players In-between like the game and still do. There’s a patch every week and whether it’s nerfs or buffs. The haters find something to complain about.

[@tcfilms8062]

Is that a Bladerunner tattoo?!

[@lucyjamesgames]

It is!!

[@tcfilms8062]

@@lucyjamesgames That's sick! Bladerunner doesn't get enough recognition. I'm hoping Denis Villeneuve gets to do a third movie one day.

[@esaedvik]

Last Epoch over D4 every time. Or even PoE, even though I'm not a fan of their currency/trading system at all.

[@Spawn256]

Missed you guys on FPS.

[@KingKikikoi]

I wouldn’t say D4 had big ups lol it’s peek was mid at best with lots of downs 😂

[@vinberube136]

Great episode, thanks!

[@varkin794]

I see Ozzyman is setting a fashion trending, Lucy just has to put on a hat and she's set lol.

[@murphyc15]

It shouldn't have been a love service game to begin with imo. Just have it be a good story you can play solo or co-op both locally or online. But there is no need for players who aren't in my playthrough to be in the same world as i am. It adds less to the game than the issues it causes and so isn't worth the hassle.

[@DeaD1te]

looks like they hired the wrong chris wilson for their game :D

[@DonAlejandrodelaVega]

And what about other games?

[@Vitto0606]

Interview with blizzard might have broke Lucy’s voice a bit

[@capitandelespacio]

To follow the "pudding" metaphor, Blizzard is saying "now we finally get to know that people don't like a half backed pudding because we have data".

[@IceNein763]

Are they really making the best game they can for players? Really? Or are they making the best game they can for accountants? It sure feels like they're doing their absolute best to tweak the levers as best they can to extract as much money as they can from their users.

[@Ice_2192]

A live service game is like a movie that never ends. People want a shot of the action, not one where they want to live their life in it.

[@CesarIsaacPerez]

I wish it was just a cool game, like Baldurs Gate 3! $60 and play the whole thing beginning to end.

[@ptysme]

"Just a Salad"

[@wantsome-zs5sq]

It's not a game it's a service with one purpose and that's to drain your wallet. Casino's have better ethics then these so called game companies.

[@Swarming1020]

Every video Lucy's accent sounds more and more American and it's very upsetting and disturbing

[@lucyjamesgames]

Oh believe me I know, I’m sorry!!

[@Swarming1020]

@@lucyjamesgames Reclaim your Geordie roots, Lucy! Be proud! (Also great video as always)

[@rightwired]

EQ did it for 30 years

[@HippieNerd25]

Lazyyyyy!! Team Larian ftw! Smaller and definitely better 😂 simpleeeee (saved you 13mins)

[@djTachi]

It's a game... why is there even medicine???? It should all be candy. That's why I *play* games

[@JMurph93]

No, thank you

[@RobVespa]

Yeah, no. I sincerely doubt you've gotten the real scoop. People value their jobs. Execs are often not only incompetent and unethical, but adverse to speaking the truth. Edit: Watched the video. Nope! Pretty much all BS and filler. Nice angle from Gamespot. Just the wrong people to use it with - Although the way they didn't answer it said a lot... Thing is, we already know.

[@JCTiggs1]

Tamoor looks like he's been playing Diablo 4 non-stop for 48 hours. 😮

[@matthewevans3543]

Top slugs making top content 👍

[@seanperry1914]

But I don't come to games for salad......I come to games for icecream. If I want salad i'll go read an educational book.

[@cherylrodgers6331]

Fire ♨now 😀🤘🏼

[@LaiYou]

Hope in future the game will be improve , keep it on !

[@slimzztv9963]

You know for people who hate the games you can download the software and build your own for free. Just saying.

[@supachaitengtakul5183]

Now I'm glad I didn't buy Diablo 4 in the first place. Maybe I'll grab it at a deep discount and play through it once.

[@germainm8600]

These vids ain’t doing the numbers y’all thought it would. Might wanna scrap the series 😂

[@spaceaf_wtf]

My fix is that I just won't play them

[@joshscurles3027]

As always, Spot On delivers 👏🏽

[@ThatsJStorm]

Sponsored video?

[@kowaikokoro]

blizzard deflecting responsibility and blaming it on ''vocal minority'' 🤣classic, but it wasnt the minority that nerfed all the specs with cdr before season1 and is about to nerf classes again with hearth removal at the end of season 1... what an clown company

[@itsdeonlol]

Thanks for this Tam & Lucy!!!! I love you guys so much fr!!!!!

[@enchibla]

when all you care about is revenue and the shop then maybe you are unfit for the gaming industry and should work in a different field... maybe e-commerce?! just stop fing up games!

[@joaquinvelasquez6252]

5:43 is the problem with live as a service games. You can't keep your game moving without sales. You narrow it to what the players want and that's where you can't have your cake and eat it to.(it's too expensive to cater a game to just the players playing the game as to get new players ath the same time) Call of duty is doing this right, with different dev studios constantly pumping out different titles with the COD logo on it. Funny it's the same company.

[@spidercat2841]

Meow

[@yucel8769]

blah blah blah you made a free to play game that's it. lots of talk little action

[@PrinceVegetaBrief]

Someone here needs a haircut, a beard trim, and a skincare routine. Get it together, Lucy.

[@juper5052]

A lack of understanding. Make the game harder and make the micro transactions more prevalent. my lack of understanding😂

[@Wingly113]

Skill issue

[@dillonkyle6608]

I ain't gonna lie I love d4 but there's nothing left to do and I haven't played in awhile. I went back to fallout 76 😅

[@Eddyhand71]

Rod Ferguson is the homie from Gears. ❤

[@caprise-music6722]

Lucy and Tamoor you’re the best

[@enternameder]

2:25 lies lies and more lies sprinkled with corporate jargon and lies.. excuses and a little more lies and blaming the gamers..

[@muhuee]

The title of this video and the fact that, as of the moment of my writing this comment, the video has exactly 343 likes...made me snicker.

[@whitelotuschief9321]

Lucy looking good, new hairdo is working

[@fortresstraining]

If you like like diablo 4 go play chronicon instead. Its an awesome finished game thats way cheaper and in many ways is better.

[@flayvafritz]

Just let it die already.

[@IIONNICC]

Live service games are a complete waste of time.

[@kellygreenii]

Three reasons: 1. Gamers are never happy. 2. Negativity sells in social media 3. The devs are building a social system as well as a game…and you community has to interact with it to know what it wants. 4. Instant gratification. Players want everything yesterday. While major course corrections often require months of planning and testing…and no amount of player anger and complaining will change that.

[@afterglow64]

DEAD GAME

[@billjim7288]

That’s the whole point of live service so you DONT have to fix anything.