Why It Would Take $200 Billion To Clean Up America’s School Buses | True Cost | Business Insider

Only 1% of America’s iconic yellow school buses are electric but converting the whole diesel fleet would cost nearly $200 billion. To cut emissions and spare children from the dangerous fumes, many feel it's a price worth paying.
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Why Turning America's Yellow Buses Electric Costs So Much | True Cost | Business Insider

[@CoolAsFreya]

School busses are probably the best application of battery electric buses, as they don't run all day only before and after school, giving ample time to charge overnight and during school hours.

[@aeusem88]

Terrible timing to release this video now. Those stated cost prices for BEV busses are probably double now. BEV price increases have far outgrown ICE price increases.

[@575nonya3]

What about field trips and runs in between

[@amalgeorge6877]

@@575nonya3 rent a traditional bus

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

@@aeusem88 inflation

[@Daniel.P.2024]

When evs are impounded they are put in a seperate yard because they catch fire for no reason 😂😂 Yesssssssss what a great idea 😂😂😂😂

[@pyrholorange]

i like how they keep the classic styling of the old buses for the new fleet

[@jaysmith1408]

If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it. Especially with Freightliner, the M2 is a popular, though antiquated, design. International (the maker of the referenced dirty bus, with a now obsolete and discontinued MaxxForce diesel) has recently updated their exterior appearance on their DuraStar (now MV) platform for the entrance to electric powertrain, their interior being updated in 2018.

[@ZeldaFeb]

Also for safety reasons so people easily recognize a vehicle full of children

[@osiris654]

@@jaysmith1408 how do you know so much about buses? independent research or are you in the industry?

[@jaysmith1408]

@@osiris654 well both really

[@adorbjune96]

Between the flat nose, and the dog nose buses, there is pros and cons for each design. For exampel, the placement of the engine for maintenance (not sure what pro a dog nose bus would bring in this case if it is electric), the placement of the front wheels behind or in front of the driver, the position of the engine also affects the position of the rear tires, this all affects handling, there is also noise, (no issue with electric though), space (flat buses have more interior space), approach angle, and more. Makes me wonder what the decision was behind using conventional buses, perhaps it was easier to make electric buses using existing inventory, which reduces cost?

[@querube78]

I'm all for public transportation being as efficient and clean as possible. I definitely remember the fumes and that these are cheaper to maintain in the long run. Now if only our society was not built around cars so children could bike, walk, electric scoot, to school. Public transportation to school must also improve.

[@wyattsmith8853]

exactly. it would be amazing to walk places or ride bikes. but our cities infrastructure around the country focus on roads for cars instead of roads for cars and people. its so annoying

[@keriddunk1520]

US does not have any corner shops or coffee shops in residential areas. Or food trucks in residential areas

[@steveb796]

@@keriddunk1520 sure it does. Get out of suburbia and the sticks.

[@pbilk]

You mean like the Netherlands. I have personally witnessed these school of children biking in the Netherlands. It's wonderful to see and healthier too! If we see that Asthma cost the US $56 Billion a year, why don't we look at all the costs the inactive lifestyles cost the country and build infrastructure differently?

[@TheAmericanCatholic]

@@keriddunk1520 shops should be mixed with residential areas. Not doing that poor use of resources. Mixed development should be allowed in the United States again. I live in Michigan in the Detroit area where our car dependency is ridiculous it takes 30+ minutes to bike one way to the closest store and a other 30 minutes to get back.

[@jeromep3182]

I’m a school bus driver myself and my district has smaller special need buses and also large regular education buses as well. for me there’s nothing wrong with having both electric for the special needs and diesel for the bigger buses because we all do field trips as well and drives distances that electric buses won’t keep up with.

[@crazeguy26]

The Holbrook Unified school district can't use one on any of the routes as there to long for the EV bus. my trip to school from the time i got on to stepping off at was 90 mins there was 4 another stop before me and most of the student on the route. on the start of winter break are bus blown off a pipe for the turbo to inter cooler. bus driver had no choice but to nurse the bus the rest of the route. 1 mph up the hills and 15 mph on the flat.

[@kilodeltaeight]

For longer range trips you’ll likely see what we saw with a lot of earlier EVs where a small gas or diesel generator can run to extend the busses range, quite dramatically. Even better, despite still being a oil-fueled engine, such range extenders are way more efficient and require far less maintenance as they run at a consistent RPM to charge the battery, and are able to get more energy per gallon doing so than if they were driving the wheels directly. As an example, on my BMW i3, the Range Extender can give me an extra 100 miles on 2 gallons of gas - 50 MPG - while a similarly sized car might get 35 at best. Over time, we’ll likely see more dense batteries - just like with cars - to say nothing of Hydrogen Fuel Cells, which have a huge potential for heavy duty, long haul trips.

[@spammerscammer]

Their called "short buses".

[@jeromep3182]

@@spammerscammer we referred to them as special need buses because of how they are equipped with wheel chair accessiblity car seats and so on and so forth used for special need children vs regular education.

[@stillanoldman]

@@spammerscammer Speds

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[@aylawoodruffgibb5441]

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[@Madderthanjoker]

If America was willing to waste all of that money in the invasion of Afghanistan,then they can find the money for this.

[@kristy313106]

Best comment ever! Totally agree.

[@JailEnforcement]

Same with ukraine

[@rivesdoe6442]

Dude so true. Sometimes I believe our government does not want us to be developed mentally, economically

[@boredbread5918]

@@JailEnforcement you act like Russia isn't committing war crimes

[@onlyhistory8140]

@@boredbread5918Who cares, not our business

[@Nathan-cz8uk]

At 5:04 it talks about cheaper operating costs, and that they might pay for themselves; I wish you had given more details on that (instead of focusing so much on the initial price tag). What's the average price per mile of diesel vs. electricity, what are the different buses' expected lifespans, etc.

[@frankiecast4897]

Who cares just tell the feds to print us some more money 🤑🤑🤑

[@MrNagant007]

Yes. Id like this to. Though it could very a lot In my state a school bus has to be retired after 200,000 miles or 17years. Bus averages 12,000 miles a year at roughly 8mpg. At current prices for diesel that is $8,250/yr. Prices flux so it's hard to say but maybe $100k over the lifetime. That price should come down for an E BUS and it'll benefit the fuel budget as it'll be extremely consistent. Closer to $300k for an ebus seems like that might be the magic break even point.

[@jthegoat38]

I’m also in va and this basically a eletric company here in va gives us grants to afford them. They have to be on the road for 15 years and they have a extended warranty for 15 years. Each are 330k with the va spec. To order these the grant specs that we have to scrap a diesel bus and it has to have seatbelts. They get about 130 per charge. If you have three charging stations it takes three hours per bus. They usually do better in city instead of a county terrain do to mileage. Until they get a better way for more mileage per charge it won’t work to well.

[@amberharmsen2497]

Well less moving parts means less chance of breakdowns Which happen frequently with diesel buses

[@FoundaPeanut]

All I can think about whenever I see these vehicles is the greasy hand mechanic that has to deal with the maintenance and parts required to keep these things on the road. Anyone certified to handle a Electric system that could randomly burst into flames if not handled correctly, makes more per hour, per year than anyone at the school district….. most of the people who work at the school districts feel that they are far too powerful to make less than some greasy mechanic. I wish them the best of luck, I doubt very seriously that a school district will be willing to put up the money required to hire people qualified to work on these giant exploding batteries.

[@djoj1986]

When I was in high school back in the early 2000's. My school district (Capistrano unified) had one electric bus and my route was the lucky one to use it. But out of the 2 years I used the bus we only used it 2 times if I remember. And the last time we had to transfer buses because it broke down or battery drained.

[@zacharycornman977]

My only worry is it like the early Priuses where they mechanically total themselves because their batteries go bad within 7-10 years. Can we support changing the whole fleet in that time frame and what is the ecological cost of lithium. Tho by that time we may have come up with better ways of recycling lithium from used EVs.

[@miles9922]

That's a pretty low-ball estimate. The technology has changed drastically in the past 20 years. They're not NiMH batteries any more, most are LiPo. They're also actively cooled and their charge and discharge is more tightly controlled, unlike previous generations. EV batteries on newer models of car could likely outlive the comparable gas engines. I'm no Tesla fan, but all the data suggests their batteries could easily last 20+ years.

[@BobHannent]

Yea, there's a big difference between a Prius battery and a modern EV. LiFePo4 batteries still have something like 80% of their charge capacity after 3000-5000 charges. With an average school year, that would be over 16-20 years and it would still have 80% range of the original. Then they can swap that battery for whatever new battery technology is available in 20 years. While the old battery can be re-used for supporting the local power grid long before it's recycled.

[@jacobamador7989]

The batterys will probably only last 10-15 years or so, despite what anyone claims. Tesla uses the latest in battery tech and they only get around 6-10 years. This is definitely not a good financial move by any sense. People also forget infrastructure costs, i.e. installing charging stations, retraining maintenence staff, retooling maintenance shops etc. Bad move overall. As to re using old batterys, i worked in the energy sector for a bit. We don't want old batterys. We would throw out basically unused backup batterys every 4-6 year cycles, still at 95+% health (I snagged a bunch from the bin for myself lol). I highly doubt they want batterys with 20% health, liability and install and maintenence are higher than buying new, or maintaining old.

[@isacc8324]

I think there’s a real good chance that this could make the change for most school districts however with more rural areas you’re going to need to rely on Diesel engines to get the mileage you need, that or they could build smaller region size school houses for these areas

[@antoniomromo]

I wonder if the smaller more efficient buses would be better options as those areas likely have smaller school populations?

[@austinhavard8894]

@@antoniomromo This is subjective as every rural district is different but what you see is that they just use a smaller fleet, so a similar ammount of kids for bus. You would have to order more buses that are smaller at that point and even then idk if the range could make some of the larger rural treks. The technology is getting there though

[@امسالممنفلسطين]

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[@poochyenarulez]

" the mileage you need" being how much, exactly?

[@bollweevil8112]

That’s what the video said 🙂

[@couch_philosoph3325]

I never rode in a school bus in my life. In my country, we either walked or took the bike (yes even in primary school) and for farther schools such as high schools, we took the train

[@melancholymelodies89]

Unfortunately, a vast majority of the US is not set up for that kind of travel.

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

It's uniquely American because of their city planning. So you have to drive to get around in the US

[@npip99]

@@melancholymelodies89 It's certainly setup for at least biking. Plenty of people biked to school. It's just, that only a small percentage of kids are willing to bike.

[@melancholymelodies89]

@@npip99 It's not even so much a willingness to bike. A lot of it is safety.

[@oscaralejandrotorresaguila5886]

@@npip99 the US is very car oriented, in Europe is safe to cycle to school, in the US, bikes are the most dangerous modes of transport

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[@menoahgunzel8146]

They don't have to replace the whole bus, they can just rebuild it. Way greener and probably cheaper

[@VdiMusicGaming]

Exactly they should make a program where they can send Thomas their buses and them put the electric parts in the bus and take the old parts out

[@the_rubbish_bin]

More practical to convert the existing buses to CNG, depending on age and condition. The district I graduated from was using buses that were over 20 years old at the time.

[@YangLeee]

As more companies make electric buses, price will go down.

[@CharmingAthens]

Ok for cities, not hearty enough for rural areas.

[@ElJefeDeTexas]

The only reason why I say its a bad idea is because if your waking up late and your not on the curb you won't know if that bus has pass or is already next to your house lol

[@TorreFernand]

We have clocks, you know

[@paow0w279]

That’s on you tho

[@squidwardo7074]

I mean unless its an old ass bus without ac its not that loud anyway

[@d2cuadrados510]

lol I was thinking the exact same thing

[@AnotherYoubue]

Thats a really stupid reason to be frank. It’s your Responsibility to look out and be ready.

[@govinddutt]

To charge these buses during the day it will be great to have rooftop solar panels on the schools or the garage building and if possible the buses themselves. I am from Australia and we have one of the highest rates of rooftop solar in the world.

[@feildhockeyfeildhockey5676]

This ☝️

[@melancholymelodies89]

Congress here in the US is owned by the big oil companies. They don't like solar because they haven't figured out how to tax the sun.

[@govinddutt]

@@melancholymelodies89 here the electricity companies have figured out how to make a profit from solar power. They pay a pittance to house owners who have solar panels and then sell the solar power generated and fed into the grid during the day at a higher price.

[@cruisinguy6024]

There's absolutely no reason why the roofs of those buses should not be covered in solar panels. A vehicle that size could easily have 2,000 watts of solar panels.

[@nicolespruitt675]

It would be expensive and require more maintenance

[@panhasithso9044]

300k McLaren pulls up start revving Kids: whoa Driver : lol…

[@_smferrari_]

As a school bus driver I’m am stoked for this to be the norm!! At times you can’t hear the kids nor they hear you and it can be extremely difficult gauging if kids are choking or being bullied and things like that.. stoked!!

[@seanthe100]

In many places in the US the buses don't even run on diesel. They run on CNG, and propane.

[@YURIKAccessories]

Link please

[@dackbowland1876]

@@YURIKAccessories look it up lmfao. Is this common sense statement hard to believe to you? Where I live the garbage trucks, city trucks, and school buses run on cng and propane. Not like it makes a diff on environmental impacts. At least it’s less harsh than ev’s still.

[@ivanvelasco6323]

propane is a byproduct from the refining of natural gas and and crude oil so cng seems like the best option to change to

[@ANormalLemon]

@@ivanvelasco6323 Maybe..., Downside is that it may drop in power, It's even more ineffective when the bus itself already is heavy, plus all the children on the bus. Resulting the bus being prob 2x slower

[@seanthe100]

@@ANormalLemon have you ridden a CNG bus? In natural gas configurations at least for buses they're equiped with much more power a typical diesel 260 hp Cummins, and these have a 300 hp natural gas engine.

[@IanZainea1990]

You don't need as many stations for electric. You primarily charge at home. I don't think even rural buses are driving 500 miles a route. Idk about like... Wyoming. But in rural Ohio, I think our buses probably did around 80 miles a route. Was like a 90 min route (for a while I was the last one off in afternoon) and going 55, with stops ... Maybe less than 80 even

[@sterlingodeaghaidh5086]

Its entirely possible or rural routes to expand beyond a Electric bus's range actually, out here where I live in Kansas, there are a few bus routes that top around 200 miles, but we are a smaller county. Factor in that you have traffic, numerous roads you have to travel on, varying conditions and its not hard to see why electric buses arent there for every application. Also, in reference to buses, unless your rural your parking that bus in a major lot.

[@IanZainea1990]

@@sterlingodeaghaidh5086 fair enough, for longer routes they could keep diesel

[@dirkfromhein]

That same bus will run each route multiple times per day most likely… once for 1-5, then middle school, then high school… perhaps in rural.

[@IanZainea1990]

@@dirkfromhein Not in my area, K-12 was on one bus, one route.

[@sterlingodeaghaidh5086]

@@dirkfromhein depends on the district, out here everyone gets picked up the same time so it’s one trip.

[@Sexynes]

Electric buses are more logical to be produced than electric cars. Rather than transporting a few people, buses can transport way more, and is used to benefit the public most productively.

[@joseescobedo7899]

Low key tho if the country focuses on electrification of our public transportation it's be a big better

[@microwavegum]

@@joseescobedo7899 reminds me of Japan

[@zaxarispetixos8728]

You also need a ton of batteries you can build cables on roads and run electric busses on them because they run on a single route for ever.

[@travisfitzner5067]

@@Kigoz4Life with that short of a range, using electric for trucks is not practical! Many OTR trucks run around 400 miles per day. Many team driver trucks will do 800-900/day.

[@danielcarroll3358]

@@travisfitzner5067 But most trucks are used for shorter runs. The OTR trucks will just have to wait for improved technology.

[@aaronpetrovich1164]

In poor communities this will never happen property taxes won't cover the cost unless it's mandated by the federal government and in that case we will probably be taxed somehow for it.

[@spearamintwolf6225]

No 'probably' about it, the money comes from us the citizens whether through taxation, inflation or outright confiscation.

[@danre3369]

Uhm. They got rid of busses within 2 miles and turned the rest electric. Thats what they have done in the poor districts. its been going on since I was in middle school and I graduated high school 5 years ago.

[@seanpalmer2050]

Many of those communities have already stopped bussing for cost and safety concerns. They are no longer able to manage dangerous student behavior on the buses, regardless of cost or type. Also, if monies are provided by state or local goverments, these same at risk and low income school districts need to be monitored to ensure that the funds are used correctly. There is a history of school district officials misappropriating funds. See Detroit, see Prince George's County, MD, see Baltimore, MD, etc

[@Sol-os5pk]

@@spearamintwolf6225 Yes? Isnt that the entire point of taxes. You are paying money so that you get something in a much better return, since the purchasing power of the government is much better. Many Americans have this concept that paying taxes is a bad thing. Its not.

[@spearamintwolf6225]

@@Sol-os5pk First of all the 'purchasing power of government' is all from the people to begin with so we should have a say. Then there's the little issue of waste. Is it cost effective to replace theses busses with the much more expensive electric? I'm not saying it is or isn't just that perhaps these things should be considered. Finally, and most importantly is there really a NEED to replace them? By the way, no, I don't buy into the climate alarmism thing either so don't bother going there. Yes, I care for the earth, but it's not ending in 10 years like the alarmists have been pushing since the 60s. We should make sensible environmental changes, but not radical ones.

[@chaseharveyharvey1377]

The Fumes never bothered me and I rode the bus in the 90’s and never had any “Heath issues” 🙄

[@PyroShields]

Not everybody is going to have health issues.

[@stickshift13]

Man the thomas built buses and international buses are iconic! although the internationals crescent shaped headlights are iconic and futuristic even after 10-15 years! also the name saf-t-liner c2 is etched into memory just above the the door

[@justincraig398]

Why are we talking about doing a compete 100% switch from diesel to electric? Obviously that’s unrealistic, so just do it gradually. So maybe all new buses are electric. Over the coarse of 20 years I’m sure a good amount will be electric vs. diesel.

[@ryanchan6122]

The proper question is to ask why so few kids not walk or bike to school? The answer is most parent’s don’t feel comfortable having kids walk or bike to school due to North Americans horrible obsession of a car centric lifestyle.

[@chloedegurechaff1941]

@@ryanchan6122 I'm pretty sure my parents wouldn't have want me to walk or bike the 30 miles to get to my high school. XD

[@iigotthemojo]

@@ryanchan6122 depends how far the school is buddy

[@morgainebarkefors9806]

While not realistic to do an overnight switch, we'll have to have a higher degree of electrification than what the normal lifespan of the old (and new) diesel models premitts. We will need a small procentage diesel still for the long distance routes, but can ill afford 20 yrs for the bulk of the fleet to change if we want to curb global warming.

[@nobodyspecial4702]

@@morgainebarkefors9806 When they can make electric vehicles that have less carbon footprint than diesel vehicles, then the switch would make sense. HOWEVER, they still can't. Every electric vehicle being produced today generates a larger carbon footprint than the one created by not only manufacturing, but operating an ICE vehicle for 20 years. The industry experts all know this, but the EV manufacturers and green energy lobbyists all ignore that fact in order to push EV's that are worse for the planet than cheaper, ICE vehicles.

[@CalimehChelonia]

400000 Dollars? Insane.

[@amtrakatl]

They are more expensive than diesel though Thomas’ electric buses are the most expensive. Blue Bird, the largest school bus manufacturer offers many more sizes and variants of electric school buses which are slightly cheaper and they just showed off a whole new electric platform which has the batteries designed into the chassis more like an electric car. This will increase the range, and lower production costs. The electric buses featured here are modified diesel buses with electric motors and batteries in place of the engine and because of this, they are more specialized making them more expensive. Costs should come down as manufacturers further develop these technologies.

[@MegTelevised]

We sent a billion to Ukraine. We got it

[@Horizon301.]

@@amtrakatl why not buy coaches and use them? Dedicated school buses that cost this much yet look like they are made for prison inmates is odd. Coaches should cost less and have interiors on the same level as any coach you would pay to travel on. That’s the way it is in the UK. A top of the range coach here costs 200k used with a little use, you could easily get 4 year old coaches plaxton, Scania, Mercedes’ etc for just over £100,000.

[@melancholymelodies89]

@@Horizon301. Coaches require a whole different set of parts and knowledge to operate and maintain. Also, the school bus is designed to be rugged because kids don't always follow the rules and sometimes damage the bus. A seat cover is is something that can be quickly and easily replaced. Reupholstering a seat, not so much.

[@amtrakatl]

@@Horizon301. School buses are highly specified for what they do. Everything about them from color, stripes, height, spacing and design of seats is designed around kids safety in mind. They are by far the safest vehicles on the road. Also, they have a much smaller wheel base so they can navigate down tight streets to reach all of the houses, streets coaches can’t go down. Coaches and school buses are designed for two different purposes and they can’t really be interchanged.

[@Phillipnoogen]

The cost of the bus should go down when battery technology gets better in the future.

[@Jeddin]

A regular school bus is 130k but an electric school bus is 400k? Something is fishy here. A battery which is the most expensive part of a conversion doesn’t cost 270,000. Ford electrifying the F150 can still sell them for 45-90k. The bus companies appear to be either profiteering public money to transition to EV and/or sabotaging the transition by inflating the cost

[@Jeddin]

@Daniel Ordonez The current price of batteries is $100 per kilowatt hour. A 200 kWh battery which should be plenty for a school bus should cost $20,000. Electrical motors are cheap. The frame is the same as the ice model. Where is the other $250,000 in cost coming from?

[@brenyz5013]

The extra price is for Insurance cost !!

[@randomvideosn0where]

@@Jeddin Not sure 200kWh would be enough for a bus to go 130 miles. My car has 38kWh to go 170 miles and the bus is far less aerodynamic not to mention the incredible weight.

[@TJW68]

My question is: Why does a diesel bus cost so much? They're pretty simple boxes filled with cheap seats and an engine.

[@TeejtheDeej]

Because government contracts

[@TeejtheDeej]

Same as why it cost NASA so much to build rockets compared to SpaceX etc

[@StarFleet_Tech1701]

I used to love the diesel exhaust in the 80's. That's why I sat in the back of the bus.

[@alexthebruh]

Hopefully you don’t get any complications from that

[@christopherbusseyki5aur52]

Did anyone else notice she had no seat belt on, which has been proven fatal in wrecks

[@Mladjasmilic]

This is just waste of money. Old buses can be retrofitted with electric drivetrain. They can run trolley buses. Or just build a city so children can walk to school.

[@LoganC278]

I bet building a whole new city centered around walking would be cheaper than just buying a few electric school busses huh?

[@squidwardo7074]

I'm pretty sure buying a few busses is a bit cheaper than building a whole new city

[@jackbarry9469]

Yeah outside of rural schools this is a great point. Some rural schools like where im from ranges arent long enough yet

[@Shotis]

As a student, I hate walking through the buses. The fumes are horrible!

[@tommern84]

How insane HORRIBLE are those old American diesel powerd school busses? The way they talk about how much they polutes, you get the impression they have a old, inefficient diesel engine from a WW2 warship or something

[@dennispremoli7950]

...which they do.

[@specialopsdave]

15 liter diesel engines kind of are that bad

[@moabman6803]

Modern diesels are very clean.

[@timmuller1567]

Hmmmmm, been doing this for 35 years. School districts never have any money to spend on anything so lets see, $400,000 for 4 buses or $400,000 for 1 bus?

[@bm8641]

Given the cost of diesel this becomes irellevant

[@Bradleyey]

It’s almost as if the richest country in the world has terrible financial priorities and should spend more money on education?

[@insertchannelnamehere8685]

In this case, The power company is paying for the cost difference, so it's not like the school district loses out

[@jreese8284]

I see this video as unrealistically optimistic. We spend more to stop our children from breathing diesel fumes....but now need to generate more electricity, and who's living next to that source of pollution? And have you looked into the lives of the miners and their families, the ones who provide the rare earths for the batteries? We are just dumping the pollution off onto someone else. I don't see that the benefits outweigh the costs for electric buses.

[@Neojhun]

LOL FAIL! Diesel engines dump fumes into the faces of kids. HVDC is extremely efficient even at 200 miles away. The literal distance that you can put between people and power stations massively changes the health damaging effects. Soo no it's nothing like just transferring the emissions onto someone else. Lithium Ion Batteries use nearly NEAR Zero Rare Earth Metals. Other than tiny adulteration into Electronic PCBs & Integrated Circuit Chips. Some of the most mining done for BEVs is done in AUSTRALIA for Hard Rock Lithium, Nickel & Iron. A purely professional high paying mining industry with very strict worker conditions maybe a bit nanny state. You fail at basic facts. You are rattling of the same overused misinformation script. I'm not an optimist, i'm a pessimist engineering & chemistry nerd.

[@cockman4981]

@@Neojhun Lmao do you not also realize most 3rd world countries mine minerals like cobalt and are being exploited by bigger countries like China. Most cobalt mines in the world are owned by China in the Congo with poor conditions and poor salaries. Before you start yelling WRONG WRONG WRONG at people maybe do some research?

[@cockman4981]

@@Neojhun Lithium ion batteries use Cobalt, Lithium and for the BMS computer uses fiberglass for the PCB, Gold, Platinum, Copper, Silver, Iron clearly you don’t know how computers and electronics are manufactured. Most people not in the computer industry think not that many rare earth metals go into electronics but that’s completely wrong.

[@njipods]

The power plants Futher away are not in the street. They have but smoke stakes that put the poluition Futher up. Not to mention there muuuuuch cleaner. They have very advanced filters and scrubbers.

[@moabman6803]

Electric busses are really nice. They are super quiet and have a little more room inside over a diesel bus. They are made of far more exotic materials and are quite fragile compared to a diesel bus so repairs can be very expensive. Also a electric bus costs about 1million US dollars. At least the transit busses do. I don't think diesel school busses cost that. In addition some municipalities are finding it necessary to have 2 electric busses to fill the role of a diesel bus through the day due to the battery not lasting the day, so a second bus is used to finish the runs for the day. The chargers take a while as the batteries are massive. I'm guessing each charger is around 50k per bus

[@julianreverse]

The U.S. wouldn't need expensive school buses if it had a functioning public transportation system 🤦‍♂🤦‍♂

[@deepspacecow2644]

Where did you go to school? I went to elementary in NYC and very few took the bus, most used public transport. I live in a rural area now and people in town walk to school

[@Tman0517]

Around my area in NY im starting to see alot of propane powered school busses which is nice because you can barely smell anything coming put of them where as you can always smell a diesel bus. I will say there should be hybrid versions because i remember in school with field trips and sports games we would travel pretty far sometimes.

[@MrWaheedulHaque]

5 times worse range i don't see how this is the future, the efficiency needs to be a lot better and faster charging

[@holybanana2376]

bruh thats my highschool😂 Love that diesel smell, almost as good as a basement smells

[@zacharyburdette4261]

Hopefully there are plans to offset the larger demand on the power grid by installing solar panels. If not then the busses are just running off coal.

[@jeffbob7219]

This is a common misconception, people think it’s pointless having electric vehicles because they’ll run off coal anyway, but that’s not relevant, electric vehicles are far far more efficient than combustion cars so even if the the electricity used in the EV was produced by 100% coal and you drive a mile in each type the combustion would’ve produced more carbon into the atmosphere. As there is a lot of waste of energy in combustion engines, as the law of conservation of energy states energy cannot be created nor destroyed but only converted. And when combustion engines produce energy that will turn into kinetic energy to spin the wheels a lot of it is lost by sound and heat energy being formed and then when the car breaks, all that energy is wasted where in an EV the motors can harness that energy and put it back into the battery. I hope you learned something, governments really need to do more to teach people more about EVs as there are a lot of misconceptions

[@sdvten]

@@jeffbob7219 LOL. You don't don't know nearly as much as you think you do. I can tell you looked at some pro EV sources and then go out on a mission to try and "teach" people things you know nothing about.

[@jeffbob7219]

@@sdvten please tell me what I got wrong, if I know nothing about it.

[@olivercollard8767]

I think that it would be much more economically viable to convert busses to electric, as opposed to building them from scratch

[@beyondfossil]

Good point. There's so much room in the engine bay for all three of the ESC, brushless motor, and much of the batteries. If more batteries are needed, plenty of length along the bus's long body.

[@rppiii6737]

The emissions from the mining, production and transportation of batteries creates more emissions than a we expel from manufacturing and running gas or diesel engines.

[@olivercollard8767]

@@rppiii6737 this is a good point, but I imagine that we will have alternate energy storage pretty soon

[@beyondfossil]

@@olivercollard8767 It is *not* a good point. Its a complete falsity. For that statement to be true, the entire world wide network of policy makers, scientists and environmentalists would have be all complete fools.

[@olivercollard8767]

@@beyondfossil I agree

[@senorliamy17]

Of course it can afford to turn its school buses electric! It just spent >$2 trillion on a war in Afghanistan that achieved nothing! The cost of this pales in comparison.

[@आशीषसाहू-ख1ल]

$400000 for electric bus!! This is way too expensive, and yeah the battery you'll replace in every 6 years. It's way too expensive to maintain as well.

[@Mitnixbinichfroh]

It cost lots to build stuff in america

[@ivanfontaine8855]

Its a good idea when you travel on pavement. Rural areas in the north its not a good choice yet because of temp and distance.Newer diesels have little to no smoke comeing out the tail pipe.A 3126 cat is a very good choice.

[@robertical]

By replacing the old Diesel engine of the old busses with a new 2022 one would probably already reduce consumption by 50% and also reduce pollution by even more. And it would be cheaper option than electrified. New ones just design then electric.

[@wybuchowyukomendant]

...and it would be less impactful for the environment than electric, since the HUGE impact of digging metals needed for batteries is way bigger than snake oil musk wants people to know.

[@dhruvakhera5011]

@@wybuchowyukomendant it's a clown world that will die a painful death

[@RaidifyLifts]

Liberal 🙄

[@Michael-il5wd]

@@wybuchowyukomendant 95%+ of a battery can be recycled and turned into another battery. So when you cite mining effects know that number is much lower over time

[@Ruboniasfinest]

There’s nothing like the sweet smell of diesel in the morning

[@DemarcusQ]

I’d say save the diesel ones for long road field trips and electric ones to pick up and drop off kids from school and take only street roads also saves your battery for all day then.

[@kaliningradtoczechrepublic8162]

is it really that bad for long road trips? I know that in most evs you can easily drive 5 hours after having to do a 30 min break, which is what is done normally anyway.

[@GrimHeaperThe]

Didn't mention how much replacing the batteries would be.

[@dustinmiller7278]

Alot less than the cost of gas and oil used in the same span .... batteries if they are lithium iron phosphate will have about 5 year min life

[@TomCook1993]

Do you factor in replacing gas engine when you buy an ICE car?

[@nobodyspecial4702]

@@TomCook1993 An ICE engine doesn't need to be replaced every 5 years. In fact, you can expect one to run 200k miles easily, while there isn't an electric battery with a life span even remotely near that.

[@GrimHeaperThe]

@@dustinmiller7278 Even if the bus battery costs 160,000$(40% of the bus's cost) to replace every 3 years?

[@TomCook1993]

@@nobodyspecial4702 either does an electric battery. There are still first Gen Prius batteries out there working just fine.

[@aronair3532]

Instead of focusing on good education they worry about getting rid of diesel

[@someblaqguy]

Both are a cause for concern.

[@linkfan95]

@@someblaqguy Battery mining will do a lot more damage than any diesel will. Learn facts, not what your leaders tell you.

[@someblaqguy]

@@linkfan95 what does that have to do with my comment exactly? I didn't say anything about batteries ya doofus

[@linkfan95]

@@someblaqguy literally said both are a cause for concern, ya doofus.

[@thedopplereffect00]

@@willnicholson18 because most people understand how to budget their money for wants vs. needs, unlike government

[@a_pullin]

I mean, we sent $50 billion to Ukraine in the span of ~30 days. Just imagine the country we could have if we spent that at home, instead of on weapons. Then again, I really don't know why we can't use an intermediate design serial-mode hybrid with a microturbine or a high boost small DI diesel. EV mode in neighborhoods, hybrid mode on main streets. Still can plug-in as that infrastructure gets built out.

[@Ls6chris]

Highly agree , would hold onto the Diesel engine as it is far more reliable in weather and got mileage

[@sarahbrown5073]

Way more than $50 billion.

[@thepinksantahat4739]

I think the real problem is that there aren’t any easy alternatives to driving for kids to get to school

[@brussels13207]

I thought that there were some very efficient pollution collecting systems for Diesel engines. Might that be a better way to start.

[@gloud_genn]

you cant just multiply the price for a single bus with the current productionnumbers as they get cheaper the more you build.

[@melancholymelodies89]

The price of the diesel bus hasn't gotten cheaper because more have been built.

[@briandumas9975]

No they don't. The price of lithium. Cobalt , copper, etc. Goes up all the time.

[@kaliningradtoczechrepublic8162]

@@briandumas9975 Large scale purchases are much cheaper, than single purchases

[@gcolivares71]

What is the environmental impact of mining all the minerals needed to make the batteries? Where does the energy for charging the batteries come from? Is there infrastructure in place and how much does that cost? Are fossil fuels used to create the electricity? What is the bigger plan?

[@Petebootyfudge5312]

Mining equipment burns a ton of fossil fuel to mine the battery minerals. And yeah , batteries store electricity not produce it. Great questions!

[@GrimHeaperThe]

There isn't enough lithium on the planet to do electric cars long term in just the US I expect.

[@poochyenarulez]

take those questions and type them into google

[@nobodyspecial4702]

Ted Talks Graham Conway. He goes in detail how EVs are touted as zero emission when the fact is they are the worst carbon generators on the road.

[@sergeykish]

«It takes a typical EV about one year in operation to achieve "carbon parity" with an ICE vehicle. If the EV draws electricity from a coal/fired grid, however, the catchup period stretches to more than five years. If the grid is powered by carbon/free hydroelectricity, the catchup period is about six months»

[@scottclowe]

Imagine if this was invested into decent public bus routes instead. Children could just take a regular bus, and adults in the community could also make use of the bus network! Rather than having this massive amount of bus infrastructure in place, but only run those buses twice a day (once in each direction) and have the buses sit idle in a parking lot for the rest of the day. The rest of the world has solved the problem of getting children to school without needing a bus network dedicated just to schools.

[@lolo_o4309]

Most countries have smaller schools that are closer to where people live. I think it would be more sensible to invest more in a public transit network but use a normal bus as a school bus as they could still be used the rest of the day.

[@finlanderxx]

In my country it is like this that most kids in the cities go to school by walking or with bike and minority uses the public transportation. In countryside it is usually postal bus that works also as the school bus in the morning and afternoon. Then I also have been to country where school busses were used by everyone since the traffic was terrible, no walkways and public transportation was not great.

[@giglioflex]

This only makes sense in areas with a high enough population density to utilize it. Otherwise you end up polluting more by running buses all day for hardly any passengers.

[@finlanderxx]

@@giglioflex Yeah, you would need to have 3-6 passangers to offset CO2 emissions from a icu car with a single passanger, if it's a large diesel bus. Therefore electric bus would be better. Best would be to have no cars or busses

[@deepspacecow2644]

how would that Make sense out of cities?

[@obsidiansuby]

Put pedal-to-alternator mechanisms at all the seats so the kids help charge the things and sleep a bit better.

[@zacharypeloquin340]

The gauntlet 🤣. I grew up with those buses and worked in a garage with my dad. I'm 27 and my lungs are fine.

[@justinfowler2857]

192 billion or 20% of the Pentagon's budget for ONE year.

[@specialopsdave]

God forbid we spend more money on our children than on fighter jets that will never actually defend mainland USA

[@JanitaShowaars]

That goes for our defense budget too

[@James-wq1tg]

Wish it was that simple sadly its not

[@thekikiroom]

Obviously the transition would have to take at least a decade but just to convert 50% of busses, it's absolutely feasible at an annual US budget price 9.6B

[@rosskiger27]

And more of my income taxed toward this garbage.

[@thekikiroom]

@@rosskiger27 🤣 talk about inserting a grumpy boomer comment

[@morgainebarkefors9806]

@@rosskiger27 Well, either that or we'll pay the down line ten times over in damages from storms, droughts, floods etc. Tbh, I'd rather pay up front than risking the lives of my family and friends!

[@امسالممنفلسطين]

An appeal to benevolent people. Peace, mercy and blessings of God be upon you. I am your sister, Umm Salem, from Palestine, the Gaza Strip. I entered and put this appeal in order to ask for help and extend a helping hand from good people. I have four children, a girl and three sons. We have no breadwinner but God and good people. And there is no work, and I live in a rented house, and here in the Gaza Strip, the conditions are very difficult, and I need to enter to ask good people for help so that I can provide my children with food and drink, and provide the rent for the house, and may God sustain you, but from me all respect and appreciation, and I wish you happiness and sustenance. bumper please those who can help contact whatsapp with a profile picture

[@MegaPandaCraft]

We are in no position to be spending even more money. Every budget across the board needs to be cut.

[@TraceKillTv]

In all my high school years of sitting in the back back of the bus, I’ve never had an issue with fumes unless they were coming from other students. There’s this thing called Diesel exhaust fluid, makes it safer to breathe. Not saying school busses shouldn’t convert to electric, but the fumes from modern busses aren’t bad at all. With that being said, I’ll gladly buy a used diesel bus for a project 🙃

[@Christhreeonesix]

Yea me (27) and multiple generations of millions of kids grew up riding in and walking past diesel busses for many years and we good 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Christhreeonesix]

And generations before thought millennials were being too coddled and look at society now 😂

[@Steve-vf7se]

Cool. I'm interested by it, nice. Today school buses are usually that expensive to repair or clean. You might know how to charge it by battery, that's why. But it sounds cool how school buses are done, love it. I think this will work, awesome

[@mikethemechanic7395]

21 year Diesel mechanic here. This video is misleading. The intro to the video shows a bus exhaust blow smoke. Most busses are 2010 and newer in general. They have DPF after treatment systems. They don’t smoke at all. Only early 2000s and before 00s smoke. CNG is a better option…. It’s not feasible to use electric for Heavy duty trucks. This video make it look like every bus pukes out dangerous fumes. You can put your face in diesel exhaust and not taste it for trucks with after treatment. Public schools are on a tight budget. The government would have to help out a lot. I can see private schools going electric. They have the funds.

[@timprussell]

Not something that can happen overnight for sure but with increasing fuel costs EVs usage in things like school bus fleets will continue to grow. In the urban/suburban environment it removes a lot of diesel exhaust from the mix so even if the power comes from not so green sources it is much easier to scrub power plant exhaust than it is individual vehicles. Since electrical generation and distribution is moving toward more renewables and grid storage it will probably get cleaner over time.

[@paxundpeace9970]

Energy gets more expensive too

[@alexsiemers7898]

@@paxundpeace9970 direct electricity can be sourced from other places including renewable sources, and electric vehicles then to be over twice as energy-efficient than their ICE counterparts

[@dougb27]

Diesel exhaust happens to be not as bad compared to gasoline according to several studies. Diesel is also a more energy dense fuel compared to gasoline which is why it’s used but that part is irrelevant. Diesel is still cleaner and less harmful then the fumes and emissions that power plants produce to charge those busses. Besides it doesn’t matter which is cleaner, I’d much rather my kids on a diesel bus in the event of an accident so they don’t get burned alive when the batteries combust.

[@timprussell]

@@DieselDog1982 that’s why I think they make more sense in fleet operations. Fixed bases, known daily route and vehicle performance is monitored. Suburban commuters driving 30-40 miles a day are easy, most can replace the average charge used off a 110 outlet overnight. Apartment dwellers unless they have secure parking are SOL as are urban street parkers. Most people don’t make long car trips regularly so save the argument. Average commute is under 40 mile round trip. If you’re one that must drive long distances then surely an EV won’t work for you. Long term with more and more generation coming online it may make sense to use the power electrolyze hydrogen and have fuel cell vehicles. EVs do have the problem of materials needed for their batteries that fuel cells don’t.

[@loki219]

Yeah brilliant idea lets replace 5 small carbon footprint machine with 1 huge footprint per each EV and claim efficiency and saving the environment

[@tonyV07]

This is a great advancement for our society. I am a bass drummer at a high school and for home games we stand directly behind a school bus in order to load the bass drums and drum stands into the bus since they can’t fit through the door. The bus is used to take us to the stadium and the fumes from the exhaust is unbearable and most often we are forced to wear a mask in the 100 degree texas heat just to avoid inhaling the fumes. I hope my district can move toward these busses as soon as possible

[@ironmatic1]

This. As a band kid using buses multiple times a week, they stink! And I hate walking through the lines of buses at stadiums then coughing once I sit down. But also back when I rode the bus home, the way they idle them in the bus loops is just gross. Most buses in our district are propane which is a lot better (still smells a little funky though), but you can always tell which buses are diesel and they're awful.

[@TheMadYetti]

do they need their engines to work while being parked? seems like burning fuel for sake of burning fuel

[@redlight3932]

@@TheMadYetti they don't and it is

[@sadpee7710]

bet. long term exposure can't be good for the lungs either if you have to stand near it routinely and many kids have to take diesel busses daily.

[@abrahamreviews]

From the title, I thought it would cost $200B to actually CLEAN them. I was catfished 😂

[@davidmedina5536]

I'm a school bus driver. Buses are constantly breaking down (internationals and thomas) mainly and they're made on 2021/2022 i can just picture the constant mechanical failure these buses are going to constantly be in lol. Bluebirds are made to last btw

[@yumnjame546]

Electric public transport has bigger and better implications, and i will say it makes more sense than electric cars. This is because a bus in this case has the time to charge up properly without running into issues like whether the power is 120V or 240V.

[@kaliningradtoczechrepublic8162]

From my experience most people only drive max 3 times a day(to work and home plus extras). EVS are charged at home(cars are in the garage for 95% of the time anyway). I dont know what issues you had with the power supply, here setup was quick and without issues

[@ags8982]

What I love is how insane they make that number sound, $200,000,000,000. Just withdraw the next 3-4 $46,000,000,000 payouts to other countries in support of more war efforts we shouldn't be getting involved in, and this could pretty easily be done

[@squidwardo7074]

Only 6 billion sent to ukraine was in actual money, the rest was just the cost of the equipment that was sent, which was sitting in storage for the most part anyway

[@YoureASquidYoureAKid]

If only we didn't spent $300 Million dollars a day for 20 years on a pointless war and actually used that money to improve our country instead of boming kids in tents

[@Sebastian-og7qv]

I literally call this “an oven on wheels” because it gets really hot in the bus. How we already thinkin of electric busses when there’s no ac.

[@ghostorbit]

The bus driver in the video literally mentions that the electric bus has ac.

[@mihadalzayat6957]

I’m from Fairfax county and I’m so proud

[@JesseRayWilliams]

Ngl sitting in the back of those yellow busses back in like 2002 you could feel the diesel in air. Never really thought about it. But its funny to think about it now.

[@ashleyklotz3762]

The propane's that my district have and the Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) others have are not as bad either, they're quieter and don't emit as bad of fumes, they both also considered "green".. they're just very expensive, the electric ones are insane of how much they cost and districts have to get a lot of help from the states to pay for them, the upkeep is also expensive

[@Adam-Woods]

CNG stands for compressed natural gas.

[@ashleyklotz3762]

@@Adam-Woods I said carbon didn't I, my bad, thanks for catching that. I'll just edit the post and fix it

[@Marc_YTC]

That’s true but propane buses are kinda lack on horsepower because two things, one school buses are so damn heavy and secondly propane engine can’t burn fast compare regular fuel or Diesel engines to reach higher rpm speeds. That’s why they put it in smaller vehicles than big rig’s

[@ashleyklotz3762]

@@Marc_YTC that is very true but even tho they take a moment to move, once they're moving they really move. Our drivers are more into the fact that they ride super hard, even small bumps can slam the driver's seat up and back down, also the kids and us assistants hate being in the back as it's the same, we feel every bit of the road... Other than that they tell me they love driving them because they do have more get up and go than half our fleet only because they're really old buses, other than the ones that are from the 80s and early 90s, because they're Blue Birds they're still some of the better buses we have because it doesn't take much to take care of them, Blue Bird made such great buses, that and also it's ideal for children. There are luggage racks on the inside and also luggage storage like what Greyhound buses have, also, we have 1 so far (I don't imagine we will end up with too many) that is an 85 cap bus with air conditioning, everyone fought over it until it was finally driven enough to figure out it rides like crap, even students have complained about their backs hurting so it's been turned into a strictly local activity bus as it can't go in the mountains and being propane it can't be fueled anywhere else (live in Denver, we're just barely getting a few stations for the CNG ones that all the metro area uses 😀)

[@Marc_YTC]

@@ashleyklotz3762 well your In luck I heard Toyota are making hydrogen powered semi trucks it saves budget plus fuel economy cost they used to run slow back in the days but over time Toyota says it can reach 600 or more horsepower that’s about similar as Diesel engines can go. It’s better because it’s Toyota engine’s And secondly the gases can produce into water (Also, it does fill up the tank very fast than electric and similar as going to gas station). We may see them after 2023 or 2024 because the government need them right away before 2030 for the public.

[@DavidMacchiaW]

Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) or propane powered buses overall end up having less of a lifetime environmental impact, are cost efficient to build as well as maintain, have a longer service life, operate with the same or better range than diesel units & can be fully recycled unlike it's electric alternatives. The downside is bus lots would need to invest in fueling equipment.

[@imeakdo7]

Co2 is the only thing that matters and electric excels at that. Electric is more environmentally friendly in the long run. You can power electric with hydro, nuclear, solar and wind. No co2 emissions, no internal combustion engine to maintain, lower fueling costs than even natural gas. Batteries often do outlast their vehicles. I'm assuming you just are afraid of change CNG is a lot like gas

[@AmericanBadger87]

@@imeakdo7 renewable energy is only 18% of power produced in the USA. 4/5 of you clean battery power isn’t that clean…

[@Hans-gb4mv]

With gas, you are missing one important part. Yes, the gas it burns, burns very clean and is far less polluting than the diesel used today, however, we have a massive problem in the transportation and storage of gas. A huge amount of gas is lost between the well and the end usage, many estimates go over 10%, some even over 20%. And those gases are also greenhouse gasses and contribute to global warming.

[@haught7576]

Absolutely batshit to say a CNG powered bus would be less polluting over its lifetime than electric, not grounded in reality at all. And to the point about energy mix on the grid, most of our current usage comes from natural gas anyway. An ev runs on nat gas already, except instead of carrying around a shitty inefficient generator in each vehicle (and having to build billions of dollars worth of fueling infrastructure), it is centralized at scaled up power stations. What part of an EV can’t be recycled? All the important minerals are completely reusable, I guess you must mean the plastic switches?

[@SatoshiAR]

@@imeakdo7 that sounds reasonable on paper but most of the US does not produce its electricity with renewables. If EVs truly want to become a viable option there first must be major infrastructural changes and thats no easy task either.

[@dustinmiller7278]

I'm actually building an electric school conversion... that will charge off of 16 250watt solar panels on the roof

[@mwilliams2411]

Electric school buses only have a range of 90 to 110 miles between charges. It can take 4 to up to 12 hours to charge. To fully charge the outside temperature has to be right not to cold or hot. Have to make sure they are shut down right or if you try to mess with a wire it will kill you. Plus the cost to puchase is about 3 times a regular bus. And when those batteries die it cost a fortune to replace and have lithium in it so it is a hazardous chemical to get rid of. All this on our public school systems that don't have enough money for educating our kids now.

[@TTOS69]

Nuclear nuclear nuclear! The cleanest and most powerful type of electricity we can have! Don't be scared of the name, it's much cleaner than any other source on earth!

[@williamlloyd3769]

Surprised school district hadn’t converted to CNG many years ago. Also why are these school buses the same form factor?

[@johnl.7754]

$$$$$ if it’s paid by school budgets

[@Wingie_xd]

If it ain't broke don't fix it, the form factor is probably as a result of safety reasons but I'd be open to newer designs

[@dcviper985]

What's wrong with the standard school bus design? It's got lots of research and experience behind it. School buses are the safest they've ever been. Why reinvent the wheel?

[@امسالممنفلسطين]

An appeal to benevolent people. Peace, mercy and blessings of God be upon you. I am your sister, Umm Salem, from Palestine, the Gaza Strip. I entered and put this appeal in order to ask for help and extend a helping hand from good people. I have four children, a girl and three sons. We have no breadwinner but God and good people. And there is no work, and I live in a rented house, and here in the Gaza Strip, the conditions are very difficult, and I need to enter to ask good people for help so that I can provide my children with food and drink, and provide the rent for the house, and may God sustain you, but from me all respect and appreciation, and I wish you happiness and sustenance. bumper please those who can help contact whatsapp with a profile picture

[@HobbyOrganist]

@@dcviper985 They are as aerodynamic as a BRICK and way too heavy, I had an RV I convered out of a '76 bluebird 70 passenger school bus, it's EMPTY weight as I remember was 24,000 pounds, the floor was 1/4" thick steel plates, and the lower walls had double layers of steel, the things are ridiculously overbuilt as I found every time I needed to cut holes out for things like the water heater, furnace vents, skylights. More weight = more fuel wasted. Also the state law required school buses be retired at 100,000 miles, so electric or diesel buses are probably only going to be used for up to 100,000 miles before they are junked- that cost has to be figured in, if the diesel is $130,000 and the electric is $400,000 then every mile driven costs $1.30 and $4 just for the vehicle purchase cost, plus fuel, maint, insurance...

[@southbound1969]

What will electric rates be when everybody is charging their vehicles???

[@KowalDWR]

The way politicians want them - astronomical.

[@alien9279]

Renewable exist guys. Solar is already cheaper than coal. We're building up to full electric, these things take time

[@southbound1969]

@@alien9279 Bullshit. Coal is the cheapest form of electric generation.

[@TorreFernand]

dunno, what will they be when everyone has solar panels and/or windmills?

[@TheIncomparableGolfer]

2:23 the more important number is "life cycle cost." For example, what is the cost of diesel or EV bus after 20 years

[@HobbyOrganist]

State law where I lived, and I assume its the same or similar i every state on this- required school buses be retired at 100,000 miles, so electric or diesel buses are probably only going to be used for up to 100,000 miles before they are junked- that cost has to be figured in, if the diesel is $130,000 and the electric is $400,000 then every mile driven costs $1.30 and $4 just for the original vehicle purchase cost. The 76 Ford Bluebird 70 passenger bus I bought used from a bus company in 1986 for $1250 had 105,000 on it and it was only ten years old, by that point the 361 cu in gas engine had already been replaced with a smaller 330 truck engine, the rear axle had already had to have some kind of major work on it, the clutch was worn and the 6 tires were worn- size 9 x 21-1/2" as I recall. It also needed new brake shoes, boosters, master cylinder, I also remember trying to get parts for it , auto parts stores didnt carry parts "that big" while truck parts stores didnt carry parts "that small", so these vehicles are in a strange niche between auto/pickup, and big rig trucks/tractors/farm machines. 100,000 miles of the abuse school buses get is more like 400,000 miles worth of wear on every part of the drive train, steering, axles, engine, transmission. The radiator cost $500 to replace in 1998

[@TorreFernand]

this really bothers me. Electric batteries are supposed to require replacement or refurbishing every few years, why is this not being factored in? What about the maintenance of the charging station (including potential attached solar panels a lot of schools seem to want to do?) How does it compare to the costs for diesel/gasoline/CNG busses?

[@alexsiemers7898]

@@HobbyOrganist since electric vehicles have fewer moving parts than ICE ones, I could easily see electric buses being given a longer lifespan than diesel ones

[@blaze_it94]

I don't even wanna think about the cost of replacing those batteries when they go bad.

[@synocrat601]

$192 billion is nothing... We spend a trillion plus a year on the military in this country. You move $40B a year from the defense department and in 5 years you've replaced the fleet.

[@elioarmas-rojo8601]

One thing that should be done instead of building all new buses is rebuilding the guts of older school buses. Many of the older school buses still have strong bones and just need the updates of newer school buses. Look at Wabtec and their reuse of old train locomotives. Automotive companies should invest their time in keeping older buses operational.

[@boballmendinger3799]

I believe buses are only allowed to be in service for so many years before being replaced.

[@betterbeehives8404]

"battery accounts for 40% of the $400k cost" so the battery is 180k, assuming a 12 year vehicle service time and 8 year battery life (probably less if they are charging that battery in 3 hours) your now talking about going from a 130k vehicle to a 580k vehicle that probably can't handle half days or emergency use if needed for evacuations. That's also not accounting for winter use which will require more frequent battery replacements in cold climates or the child labor this video forgot to mention in the DRC. Let wealthy people buy electric cars to drive technology but we are decades away from practical fleet usage still.

[@davidgreene2094]

Used buses where I live in Mississippi go for 1k-2500, do you think it would be more viable to convert old buses instead of building from scratch

[@betterbeehives8404]

@@davidgreene2094No it would not be more viable and by asking that it sounds like you fundamentally missed the point of the napkin math i presented. The issue is the electric battery, NOT the cost of the frame, which is insignificant compared to the cost of the motor and battery. Again, the issue of these busses costing potential a million plus for similar service life is the frequency of battery changes required to not strand the bus driver with kids on route to the school due to rapid cell degradation.

[@harrys2331]

200B is about 5 times less than one of the relief funds sent to Ukraine and it actually benefits our nation. The conflict is nowwhere near us, and every time we try to resolve a conflict across seas we get dragged in and make things worse. Afghanistan and Iraq are two classic examples.

[@angelaburress8586]

They just be wasting money PERIODT 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽!!!! they need to be worried about who’s driving a buses and giving him the proper training

[@jeffreydahmer3995]

I live in a very rural part of Virginia not far from Fairfax and they would have a hard time having a full electric fleet. The bus I used to ride was at least 100 minutes in the morning and around 90 in the afternoon. And many of the bus drivers live in rural areas so they don’t keep their buses near the schools, that means that the electric company’s need to install chargers at their home

[@TruckGuyHD92]

I think there needs to be a trial run before switching completely. May try running electric busses in small groups in different areas and different weather and climate for say 5 yrs and see how long they last. How the batteries last over time and how different weather affects them. I mean dessert heat could cause them to explode or Maine winters could kill them. Long trips would be an issue. Say your taking field trip or could be to a nationals event. The range would be issue. My other concern is if something happens to bus and they are stranded. How long will heater last in winter time. I mean a diesel bus broke down to idle for hours while a electric bus could only last an hour(hypothetical numbers) until help could arrive in case of a crash or snow storm or any other issue that could arise. These are all examples of issues we need to field test before we jump feet first. If the batteries only last 5 yrs due to weather conditions that's approximately $160,000 we as tax payers would have to pay to replace the batteries in one unit let a lone a fleet especially if you have to place 100-1000 all at once. That's a lot of money. Then there is disposal of batteries after they are depleted which is an whole nother issue because just like the batteries in your remote they do die and the chemical that are hard to dispose of. I an not against electric vehicles. They have a time and place. I feel we need more information and experience over long term and how we are going to deal with them for the next 100-200 yrs not just the next 5 yrs

[@dpg227]

That would be great if all districts where it was feasible got a few electric buses and tested them out.

[@poshpawleys]

You don’t think they’ve done the math? They know how long the batteries last and if weather is an issue, because millions electric cars have been on the road for 25 years. These are the same principal just bigger. And electric buses have been around already for a few years. This is NOT new or experimental.

[@moabman6803]

Yeah electric busses have been around a few years now. Electric busses are really nice. They are super quiet and have a little more room inside over a diesel bus. They are made of far more exotic materials and are quite fragile compared to a diesel bus so repairs can be very expensive. Also a electric bus costs about 1million US dollars. At least the transit busses do. I don't think diesel school busses cost that. In addition some municipalities are finding it necessary to have 2 electric busses to fill the role of a diesel bis through the day due to the battery not lasting the day, so a second bus is used to finish the runs for the day. The chargers take a while as the batteries are massive. I'm guessing each charger is around 50k per bus

[@sadpee7710]

from what i've seen there are labs that test vehicles, replicating weather and driving conditions. stress testing a single buss against different weather conditions at a facility (or several) is a lot more efficient than a 5 year trial. these facilities have only gotten more advanced and can give accurate estimates for how a vehicle will hold up over time.

[@dustintunis9347]

I appreciate that they also explained the electric infrastructure not being able to charge our all our buses and that making electricity also creates pollution. I'm not against electric vehicles, but the tech and infrastructure just isn't there to completely change over, even without people like me who can't afford an electric vehicle that would do what I need.

[@paulg9484]

Even when gasoline cars came out many couldn't afford it and there weren't enough gas stations. It's called evolving. We'll get there just need to ensure we are focussed on what is right.

[@steveaustin2686]

Burning fuel to make electricity for cars is usually more efficient than each car burning its own fuel I understand.

[@dustintunis9347]

@@steveaustin2686 - I've heard that too, and it makes perfect sense, but producing the batteries is extremely bad on the environment also. IIRC then it is basically a wash with how long batteries currently last, but as battery tech improves they should last longer.

[@steveaustin2686]

@@dustintunis9347 As I understand it, batteries are recycled after they go bad, so a lot of the batteries are reused.

[@dustintunis9347]

@@steveaustin2686 - I've heard just the opposite, it takes so much energy to recycle them that it's counterproductive. I haven't dug into it to confirm the reliability of the source though, so it could be complete BS.

[@efragar2003]

the only problem whit that they will not last 40 years,and after they go to hell we have to paid again and probably if you get 7 years out good luck,

[@steven4315]

Who uses 40 year old school buses?

[@CFloPhotography]

That's why i only drove CNG or gasoline school buses. CNG is similiarily convenient like electric buses; you only need to plug them in at the end of the day. 8:30 Fun fact, in California school buses can't idle for more than 30 seconds before departing. That resolves that issue.

[@kilodeltaeight]

A big reason utilities are investing in electric busses for school districts is that those batteries can run a house for days, and are often idle and mostly charged by the time the evening energy peak rolls around. As such, they can effectively serve as on-grid energy storage to help shift renewables like solar into the evening hours when demand is highest, for far less than running coal or natural gas. If the school has its own solar panels, the costs are even lower - and the district can sell that space capacity back to the grid at a small profit, paying for the busses, reducing their own energy and transport costs, and greening the grid. It’s a win for everyone.

[@moabman6803]

Electric busses are really nice. They are super quiet and have a little more room inside over a diesel bus. They are made of far more exotic materials and are quite fragile compared to a diesel bus so repairs can be very expensive. Also a electric bus costs about 1million US dollars. At least the transit busses do. I don't think diesel school busses cost that. In addition some municipalities are finding it necessary to have 2 electric busses to fill the role of a diesel bis through the day due to the battery not lasting the day, so a second bus is used to finish the runs for the day. The chargers take a while as the batteries are massive. I'm guessing each charger is around 50k per bus. It's unlikely they could be used to power infrastructure though.

[@daniel-vr2pw]

it'd be a lot cheaper to just make bike friendly infrastructure

[@nobodyspecial4702]

Yeah, um, not. You have any idea how much it costs to build a new school?

[@dennispremoli7950]

Given the cost of infrastructure like roads, it actually kinda isnt in teh US rn...

[@seanthe100]

Yes let me ride my bike from my rural home 10 miles

[@daniel-vr2pw]

many people do bike 10 miles to work or school, and besides that, proper public transport rather than just school buses would help with that too.

[@AsiaMinor12]

@@seanthe100 I'm sorry that you are very isolated from your school. But the reality is that most children live in metropolitan regions that could benefit from bike infrastructure.

[@leopoldscotch8373]

You can easily afford to invade other countries but you have to question if you can afford to make the air cleaner.

[@trevorn9381]

Yeah we could buy a lot of these buses with the $40 billion Biden gave to Ukraine to fight his proxy war against Putin.

[@KB-nt7eg]

The people that invade other countries tell you that our air is dirty. Have you ever used your brain?

[@nobodyspecial4702]

Don't you wish your country could invade others? Yes, you do. We can sense the jealousy coming off you.

[@milfordcivic6755]

3/4 don't even ride the bus anymore. Parents have decided that their special little angels are too good to ride the bus anymore. So instead we have mommy wagon traffic jams in front of the schools wasting fuel idling.

[@Horizon301.]

Buses in the US look horrific. Here in the UK school coaches are like any other coaches you would expect to travel on, safe and luxurious interiors. Typically a contract goes out to a coach operator for the work, it’s odd how here you have dedicated buses stripped of any comfort.

[@melancholymelodies89]

@@Horizon301. ...because kids here in the US don't respect others property. They will destroy the inside of those coaches. Not to mention that limits how many kids you can get on the bus. Very commonly, kids will need to be 3 to a seat on a school bus. Can't do that on a coach.

[@Horizon301.]

@@melancholymelodies89 what’s the seating capacity? Here coaches can seat around 60 but that’s dependent on the coach operator whom operates these school routes. And are children that much like animals that they would be able to damage something? I’ve never even seen anything broken or excessively worn and some of these coaches were 20 years old with lots of use by the operator for other business. Also regarding your other comment, I will just reply here. The coaches wouod be maintained no differently, it’s the same set up as these school buses which are essentially coaches but ancient editions with an American style set up. Also, it’s not a concern if you use private companies as it’s their responsibility to maintain their own fleet of coaches. I think every school here has coaches for school transport all over the country, buses would only be used for normal bus stops in surrounding areas not subsided by the authority/schools etc

[@melancholymelodies89]

@@Horizon301. Our school buses are rated anywhere from 80-90 total capacity, depending on the size of the bus. This obviously only counts for young children. As far as damage is concerned - drawing on the seats / walls, using sharp things like scissors to do damage to the seats. I'd imagine they would also try to hang off of the overhead luggage racks if the coach was equipped with them. As far as maintenance, the manufacturers of those coaches are not the same companies who make school buses in the USA. Most schools prefer to own and maintain the fleet they use, instead of contracting an outside company. Therefore, you would need a whole different set of parts and knowledge to fix them. Also, not all roads that we drive on are coach friendly, especially when it comes to railroad crossings. The rear axles being so close to the rear of the vehicle would also pose challenges for maneuverability in American neighborhoods.

[@AsiaMinor12]

@@Horizon301. the same generation that complains that children and teenagers are getting too soft, fragile and sensitive are the same generation that keeps their children living in suburbs where children develop zero independence skills by themselves. Suburbanite child abuse comes in the forms of micromanaging every aspect of the kid's life, and the crippling of any mobility that doesn't involve a car.

[@BoredAndBrowsing]

Ok, 200 billion is like one third of the military budgeting not less, its doable.

[@Sonic-gy7kq]

As a child I would have a killer headache sitting in the back of the bus everyday in those cancer boxes.

[@danharcombe6569]

The batteries could also be used for grid stability with v2g as they are not in use during peak load times and could soak up some of the solar during the middle of the day.

[@jjpaq]

To a limited extent, sure. Some numbers: • Solar panels generate about 200 W/m² in ideal conditions. • The battery pack of one of these buses holds ~150 kWh. • The area of a school bus roof is about 25m². So, in ideal conditions (noon on a sunny day), the battery would fully charge in about 30 hours (0.2 kW × 25 panels = 5 kW). Over a 10-hour daylight cycle, the panels could theoretically replenish about ⅓ of the battery-which actually isn't terrible, if they only get down to 70% after an average school run in summer. As far as V2G, one issue might be that they're not in use during peak load (early morning before commute hours, and evening when everybody gets home), but they *are* scheduled around those times. So if a bus was used to support the grid right around 7 a.m., it would have drained part of the battery immediately before it was needed for the morning run. Same in the evening-it would get back to the yard with 40-70% battery remaining, and then have to immediately provide power for the 5-7 p.m. peak.

[@danharcombe6569]

@@jjpaq even if all the buses let 10% on the grid that would be a good start. Here in aus we have a heap of solar on the grid through the middle of the day that is not used due to lack of storage.

[@johnpeters6147]

​@@jjpaq I believe the math is wrong here, assuming a 20m² flat-roof panel in Fairfax, VA you are looking at 3,543 kWh/Year. Unfortunately, the majority of that is during the summer as well. For reference, this hypothetical solar panel would only generate 300kWh of power in the month of September, which would provide 2 full charges... which for 20 school days in September, wouldn't that bad saving on 10% energy costs so long as the system didn't fully charge and anticipated solar hours day-to-day to optimize solar usage.

[@travisfitzner5067]

@@jjpaq , still not effective for my area. Here in Minnesota, in the winter the sun isn't up until 8am and sets by 4:30, and while it IS up, it is very low in the sky. With several below zero °F days it doesn't work well. One area district did get an Electric bus. They hate it! It only runs in-town routes and can't be used on field trips or sports activities.

[@moabman6803]

Electric busses are really nice. They are super quiet and have a little more room inside over a diesel bus. They are made of far more exotic materials and are quite fragile compared to a diesel bus so repairs can be very expensive. Also a electric bus costs about 1million US dollars. At least the transit busses do. I don't think diesel school busses cost that. In addition some municipalities are finding it necessary to have 2 electric busses to fill the role of a diesel bis through the day due to the battery not lasting the day, so a second bus is used to finish the runs for the day. The chargers take a while as the batteries are massive. I'm guessing each charger is around 50k per bus