Why Japan had NO Chance in WW2

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

Why the Japanese attacked the United States: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIHRZaCma95gatk Video on WW2 Ship Classes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZitfK2oea-YpNk If you like in-depth researched videos on Military History, consider supporting me on Patreon: patreon.com/mhv/

[@copperhamster]

I remember a similar comment about how if all the US forces at Midway had been defeated and sunk, the USN would still outnumber the IJN in major fleet units before the end of that year.

[@matijarasovic4627]

@marios gianopoulos it would be hard to refute these numbers, while attrition and industrial inferiority can be worked around in a continental war, the naval one is mostly grand strategy and the game of numbers

[@copperhamster]

@marios gianopoulos I used to chat on FidoNET with a Japanese woman with a Masters in 20th century History. She said Japanese history as taught in schools goes something like "We helped everyone win World War 1, there was some minor scuffles and stuff in China, and then one day for no real reason the US was dropping atomic bombs on us!"

[@matijarasovic4627]

@marios gianopoulos well that sounds... dangerous

[@Sshooter444]

Their only chance was to bet that we would pussy out and Sue for peace. That was their plan. Major backfire. Took atomic bomb to make them figure out we were serious.

[@ticotube2501]

A destroyer a day keeps the enemy at bay?

[@TeamRetroWorld]

best comment i've found yet. +1

[@GrosserHund87]

"...keeps the enemy in bay" and then the ultimate naval pun is complete.

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

@ミレニアルと日章旗 Propaganda doesn't really need to lie to influence the masses. Calling Pearl Harbor treachery isn't inaccurate, especially since they planned to deliver the declaration of war minutes before the attack begins(in every single nations present in South-East Asia). Propagandas that uses true facts are much more powerful than fake ones because fake information brings inconsistencies which would only confuse the reader, or watcher.

[@nancysexton4364]

@Call Me Ishmael God bless america

[@andrewtaylor940]

I suspect the final invasion plan for Japan involved tying Destroyer and Destroyer escorts nose to tail and just walking across from Los Angeles

[@Miketar2424]

I liked the part when the United States commissioned a lot more ships than the Japanese Imperial Navy.

[@mcglynn20]

Which part was that? I think I missed it.

[@ΔΓςΗΞΜΨώθΓκζ]

wut part lol haha

[@jakebhenry2228]

Which part, all I see is the Japanese growin- OHH, US is blue, Japan red, come on japan

[@margraveofgadsden8997]

Okay, one of us most of completely misinterpreted what was going on here, because that’s not what I got from it all.

[@MrShadowofthewind]

@ZDProletariat Do you guys also close your eyes when you sleep ? 😲

[@matijarasovic4627]

I just want to point out how hard making thus video actually was, from collecting data to editing it all out, really great work... I can't state that enough

[@Jordan-Ramses]

I agree with his conclusion as well. America would just keep building ships. The other problem is how does Japan win? The idea that Japan could just sink some ships and America would give up is nonsense. The British burned down the White House in the war of 1812 and America didn't give up. The North suffered defeat after defeat in the Civil War and didn't give up and then alternately the South fought on long after all hope was lost.

[@jonttul]

@@Jordan-Ramses Because Americans were seriously afraid of a Japanese invasion of the West Coast in the early stages of the war. The Japanese were never going to win a long sustained war, which is why the plan at Pearl Harbor and Midway and the planned invasion of Hawaii was to knock out the Pacific fleet and bases and thus be able to negotiate peace from a position of power. The Japanese had the every advantage in the Pacific at the beginning and the US economy was not geared for war yet in 1941. It would take time for their industry to bring it's might to bear which is everything the Japanese relied on.

[@enigmagrieshaber5555]

@@jonttul which is near impossible since japanese are also afraid of Americans Yamamoto even stated the freedom of Americans having guns and every equipment they could find and buy As well as the industrial might of US

[@josephdestaubin7426]

God, that was a great line: "you might walk from Berlin to Moscow, but you're not going to swim from Perl Harbor to Tokyo." Well said sir.

[@jamesgoldring1052]

But you can with a short crossing from Russia to American Alaska, the Americans even graciously created a road across Canada to Alaska Ez Japanese Skill Issue

[@gordo2022]

Bruh he left his auto clicker on “build destroyer”

[@justaglitch9387]

Lol

[@thomaskositzki9424]

Macros are cheating! XD

[@oh_no7938]

us: MORE

[@BeelzebubBeelzebub]

We need to increase production of our Naval Fleet. A Naval Fleet that relies on steam engines and coal. Irregardless of war, or not. Sustaining such a huge population requires allowing mass migration, saving our species from starvation, and allowing all ideologies and religions. God has spoken.

[@ivorbellringer2563]

@Rafael Enriquez 9p

[@milkboy2228]

If you can't swim from Pearl Harbor to Tokyo - just build a bridge. With the 600 Destroyers you built.

[@Graymenn]

maybe 60km of destroyers... not quite there but still impressive

[@liabilityvoid]

@@Graymenn we may have gona just a little bit overboard on ships. Just a little.

[@kingad8869]

@@liabilityvoid At least we were at war, nowadays we do this for the lols.

[@marinewillis1202]

when you think that the whole time we were simultaneously building tens of thousands of tanks, motorized, mechanized, fighters, bombers etc and all the while basically feeding all of the Allies, it truly becomes staggering

[@DSiren]

you mean 2,710 liberty ships or 325km of liberty

[@brachio1000]

Before Pearl Harbor, it took an American shipyard three years to build a destroyer. Six months after the attack, it took only weeks from the laying down to commissioning. That's the U.S. when it's running on all eight.

[@andrewp8284]

Hence why contrary to the statements of some in the comments, Japan never did or could have issued a "quick decisive blow" to the US in basically any shape or form whatsoever. US industry would have crushed them even under the most favorable circumstances for Japan (killing carriers at Pearl Harbor), if a bit later than historically.

[@manabouttongue]

You mean 16!

[@ronansmith9148]

One liberty ship every 3 hours. Cargo spam.

[@justinsutton5005]

@@andrewp8284 we were also just warming up

[@alexh3974]

Also liberty ships that sustained the vast forges of industry, ship yards, munition plants and kept the war ships fueled, fed and armed from thousands of miles away. Dozens of yards working on many ships simultaneously 24/7 365 days a year. So cheaply and easily produced by the end that a few voyages even only one voyage paid back the costs of a single ship.

[@radishinglad998]

On top of all this, it should be remembered that in 1945, the United States Navy commissioned a transport ship into a mobile ice cream factory. While immobile, made of concrete, and having no weaponry, the barge produced 10 gallons (about 38L) of ice cream in 7 minutes, and had a series of smaller ships to deliver it to US navy and marines across the pacific. I think that speaks just as much as any number of destroyers. Not only can your enemy overwhelm and out perform you in every tangible way on the seas, he can do so while providing the entire crew of every ship with dessert.

[@Albukhshi]

American production in WW2 was so insane, Germans on the other side of the world were finding abandoned camps with chocolate cake... The US was absolutely the wrong country Japan and German picked a fight with...

[@Blox117]

why would they make ice cream when the ice cream could just be shipped pre made???

[@collinwood6573]

@@Blox117 they did ship it pre made. The problem is warships don’t exactly have infinite ice cream storage and dedicating entire convoys worth of merchant shipping just to deliver ice cream would be a terrible idea. The solution to this is loading the warships up with as much ice cream as they could carry when they left port, have small ice cream making facilities on the larger warships, and make up the difference with a few dedicated ice cream production barges.

[@Blox117]

@@collinwood6573 or just wrap all the ice cream up in buckets like everyone else does all the time?????? do you even think before typing?

[@collinwood6573]

@@Blox117 you do realize that you can’t just “wrap all the ice cream up in buckets” and not refrigerate it, right? Both merchant ships and warships have limited refrigerated cargo space. This space is needed for cargo other than ice cream though, such as meat. This means there is basically nowhere to store frozen ice cream on a merchant ship. The solution that the US found was to ship dehydrated milk and ice cream flavoring using the much more spacious standard cargo storage on the merchant ships. These dry ingredients would then be mixed with water (sometimes milk) and ice on board the ice cream barges to create actual ice cream.

[@alwayscurious3357]

IJN: We got the Yamato! Kriegsmarine: We have the Bismarck! USN: We make warships like we make cars...

[@alwayscurious3357]

@marios gianopoulos Iowa: *Lives on to the Cold War - Gets it's own Helicopter. -Precision Shells -Tomahawk Cruise Missiles "Cool"

[@asherkosmos4312]

More like USN: We have Enterprise

[@HaloFTW55]

Sod Iowa and Enterprise. Just crank out hundreds of Light Carriers and overwhelm the enemy with more planes than they have guns to shoot back with... including small arms.

[@22steve5150]

We'll spam out enough Iowas, South Dakotas, and North Carolinas to double all the Yamato and Bismarks combined, and that's still with 2 more Iowas cancelled while half built and with us not even really focusing on building battleships anymore, cause we got 24 fleet carriers, 9 light carriers, and 74 escort carriers to build.

[@xb0xisbetter]

And yet we never did take the Yamato on in ship-on-ship combat, instead opting to bombard it from the air (no less than 6 battleships were sicked on her, but later held back). It seems the U.S. Navy, as mighty as it was, was terrified of Yamato. I'm sure they took note of the fact that, even once crippled, Bismarck was nigh unsinkable (surviving crewman insist the ship was scuttled to prevent capture, as the entirety of the ship's superstructure was destroyed, but she was otherwise still seaworthy). Musashi had been hit by 19 torpedoes and 17 bombs, including 1,000 pound armor-piercing bombs, and it still took her hours to eventually sink after the fact. These ships were in an entirely different league from our Iowa class vessels.

[@SonOfPatriots]

That moment Japan realized this game of war was over when America figured out the glitch of infinite destroyers

[@matsv201]

Luckily they didnt hit the 1024 hardcode cap

[@shronkler1994]

japan just raged quit the game

[@許進曾]

@@matsv201 I don't think so, consider the liberty fleet they have crank out from the dockyard.

[@matsv201]

@@許進曾 transpodg ship is a difrent entity

[@許進曾]

@@matsv201 even transport ship will still need ship yard to construct.

[@historicalman1817]

Japan: " Check out this Destroyer I made! " USA: *Proceeds to make 20 destroyers in response*

[@RAKITHA9]

Level 2 empire vs Level 5 empire

[@paulbricker9077]

Hello I stole your food 50*

[@inkedseahear]

More like a panic response, IJN: Hey I launch a new ship USN: HOLY SHIT! WE NOT MAINTAINING A 10:1 NUMBER ADVANTAGE ANYMORE! WE NEED MORE SHIPS!

[@CrazyNikel]

@@inkedseahear That's not how this works kid.

[@ThatRatBastard]

@@inkedseahear it's not panic it's being pragmatic. Their 1 ship can't kill any of your ships if they're too busy sinking after being hit by all 300 of yours.

[@Tishirobearcat]

Just to add to this. The US built 2700 10,000 ton displacement “liberty” general cargo ships. At a rate of three a day during full production. Plus hundreds and hundreds more tankers and victory ships.

[@Bobis32]

the record was 13 ships in a single day which is just ridiculous

[@richardtaylor1652]

On top of that, they were producing aircraft, tanks and small arms of all types for the Pacific, Atlantic, African/Italian fronts, the Western Front and supply further equipment via Lend-Lease. They did this all at the same time without any major supply or internal logistic issues.

[@brianlong2334]

About half the liberty ships had major flaws in the hull / cracks and had to be repaired but still impressive. The USA produced about 5,000 to 6,000 cargo ships / tankers, and the Japanese built about 500. The USA Navy produced about 1,200 major navy vessels from destroyers to aircraft carriers and had about 300 before ww2 started. The Japanese produced about 350 and had about 350 before the war started. The USA produced about 17x the iron ore the Japanese did in ww2 and 40x the oil. The Japanese navy needed 18 million barrels a year to operate effectively against the USA it never had more then 7 million a year, the USA pacific fleet used 18 million in 1941 and 28 million barrels in 1942 by 45 it was about 50 million. The majority of the Japanese navy spent the war at Port at anchor, where almost half were sunk.

[@rahadityap2375]

​@@brianlong2334 The War Shipping Administration have estimated 11,000 Cargo Ship of the US Merchant Navy operated by end of WW2, Remember this is Merchant Marine/Navy while the US Navy have 7,601 Ships at total

[@brianlong2334]

@rahadityap2375 From memory, only cargo ships of 1,000 tonnes or more are classified as it becomes very hard to distinguish. The British had a small fleet of aircraft carriers early on in the war to help protect cargo ships but it's not actually an aircraft carrier as it only had 1 to a few at best had 3 aircraft.. The Japanese lost about what 2,000 to 2,400 of its merchant fleet of 1,000 tonnes or more it still had almost 2,000 ships operating when it surrendered of 1,000 tonnes or more in its merchant fleet, it also lost some 15,000 civilian ships many of them fishing vessels but many had been used to transport cargo for the war effort also....

[@donaldreynolds6857]

The two scariest weapons America had. The American shipyard and the American factory,

[@1racemate]

no people who love to work

[@VioletMilks]

john barrett stonks

[@JGlennFL]

And our two best allies; Atlantic and Pacific.

[@joker_season]

It will be oil, and food

[@anathapindikahalim]

There was three you forgot The American's booming Economy

[@budmeister]

Fletcher class destroyers are the Zerglings of WW2.

[@Ralph-yn3gr]

No one ever expects the 11 shipyard 175 destroyer rush.

[@Lehr-km5be]

Tbh T-34s or russian infantry seem like a better personification of Zerglings to me

[@thomas.02]

"we have more destroyers than you have bombs and torpedoes"

[@Lehr-km5be]

@@thomas.02 Hah thats a good one :)

[@oceanhome2023]

Lehr9807 And to the Germans too !

[@Scientist118]

That moment you realize you forgot to stop building destroyers.

[@tremedar]

I have no gold for research...the hell is going on?? >check city maintenance....ok >check trade agreements....ok >check unit maintenance.....WTF?!

[@CT--gs1wj]

When you commit 15 naval dockyards in producing Destroyers in HOI4

[@robertjarman3703]

Those weren't small destroyers either. The Fletchers were 115 metres long and 12 metres wide, could go 68 kmh, could go up to 8850 km away at a speed of 28 kmh, had 329 crew members, had five 127 mm guns, bigger than the guns on an upgraded M1A1 Abram tank today, ten 40 mm bofors guns, twelve 20 mm autocannons, 10 twenty one inch torpedo tubes, six depth charge projectors and two depth charge racks. And they had equipment like sonar and radar, which given their main opposition were not ships like the Yamato (and when they were, they had the help of their carriers and battleships), they were submarines, Zeros, and supporting amphibious assault missions, that many destroyers had a gold ROI.

[@onetwothreefour3957]

Robert Jarman great comment, thanks. i just wanted to drop that the japanese navy clearly invested heavily into submarines, so clearly to fight that force the usa has gone all out. which might have been overkill, but you can never be too sure about submarines.

[@marxel4444]

@@onetwothreefour3957 but you also needed to fight german subs in the atlantik at the same time and defend your troops you ship to africa and europe. also the leand lease. i know he said the main part was in the pazific but we shouldnt forget germany invested heavy into subs and pushing great britan to its limits

[@hgbugalou]

Jesus, the US had to start naming ships after enlisted men at some point.

[@HeIsAnAli]

DDs and DEs.

[@egca2198]

yes the Destroyer The Sullimans was named after enlisted brothers.

[@littlepeep7380]

@@egca2198 That's "The Sullivans " not sulliman

[@thurin84]

or people that looked at water once.

[@TheAviationGuyID]

I saw a ship named "Harder" and "hoe"

[@andromedaputraharyanto5420]

"I swear admiral,we've sunk that ship twelve times alteady" -Some IJN Crew

[@thelegacyshow4248]

Shit

[@thelegacyshow4248]

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant, and fill him with a terrible resolve"

[@VersusARCH]

"Soryu, admiral!"

[@許進曾]

@Totally not the flash :3 IJN carrier group: I fear no man. But that thing (grey ghost steaming over the horizon). It scare me.

[@HeIsAnAli]

@Totally not the flash :3 _OWARI DA!_

[@willyreeves319]

if you think this was unbalanced you should see the aircraft production and the truck production and the ammo production and clothing production and the ...

[@thurin84]

my favorite (since i mostly collect helmets) total numbers of men and women who served in the us military in any capacity during ww2; 16 million. total number of m1 helmets produced; 22 million. total number of m1 helmet liners produced; 46 million. usa; "anything worth doing is worth overdoing. and then overdoing again"

[@willyreeves319]

number of .45 ACP rounds produced 4.2 billion - . the US made 3.3 billion of that. world population was around 2.5 billion so we could have killed the entire planet with just the pistol ammo we made.

[@andrewptob]

Yes, U.S. sent a ton of military aid to the Russians to help them against the German invasion

[@marinewillis1202]

throw in there the amount of food we were producing and shipping out also. We basically fed all of the Allies also.

[@DSiren]

@@willyreeves319 .45ACP was the ammo used by the Thompson and the M3 "Grease Gun"

[@enfield_the_enigmatic2989]

This obviously took a lot of effort, I applaud your dedication to the topic!

[@pantherace1000]

at the end of this video you realize that "awoken a sleeping giant" simply does not begin to describe the situation, "awoken a war god" seems to be more accurate.

[@stevekolarik2857]

pantherace1000 and that he really never said that. NO documentation or witness that he said that. Even the historians on Yamamoto have nothing that he said that.

[@robertgallagher7734]

Absolutely- by the end of the Pacific war the USA was building ships faster than the Japanese could build torpedoes. Admiral Yamamoto was dead on right.

[@stevekolarik2857]

Robert Gallagher he never said it. No documentation or witnesses heard him said it. He never had a diary. Nothing!

[@robertgallagher7734]

@@stevekolarik2857 ok- doesnt change the fact that Yamamoto had spent more time in the U.S. and understood the American spirit much better than his superiors. Even if he didn't say it- I'm sure he knew it. But do wonder- why was such an insightful quote misattributed to him?

[@MasterofBlitz]

@@robertgallagher7734 He has mentioned two statements. One to a Japanese ultra nationalist who wanted war "Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it would not be enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House. I wonder if our politicians [who speak so lightly of a Japanese-American war] have confidence as to the final outcome and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices." And a second quote to Prime Minister (at the time) Konoe "I shall run wild considerably for the first six months or a year, but I have utterly no confidence for the second and third years.". Yamamoto knew he had to win each battle decisively to win the war. Even Admiral Nagumo (the field commander for the Pearl Harbor Attack) said in a later carrier battle at Santa Cruz "This battle was a tactical win, but a shattering strategic loss for Japan ... Considering the great superiority of our enemy's industrial capacity, we must win every battle overwhelmingly in order to win this war. This last one, although a victory, unfortunately, was not an overwhelming victory."

[@misterjag]

"In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success." -- Admiral Yamamoto

[@tompayne8863]

@@1racemate He was smart. He knew!

[@StryderK]

Tom Payne cause he’s been to America and knew what would happen if American industrial might is unleashed.

[@teebes2009]

I am not sure they quite made it to 6 months.

[@JoeSpringer97]

@@teebes2009 If they came up short on 6 months, it was by a few days. Midway was in June of 1942.

[@teebes2009]

@@JoeSpringer97 The Battle of the Coral Sea was right at about the 6 month mark, and they did not quite run wild there. So, overall he was probably right as to 6 months.

[@TheNightWatcher1385]

For those wondering how the US didn’t run out of names for their ships: -Battleships were named after US states. -Submarines were named after fish species. -Destroyers were named after war heros. -Cruisers were named after US cities. -Aircraft Carriers were named after famous battles, presidents, one of the original 6 ships of the navy, or famous admirals. Plenty of material to pick from.

[@FriedrichBarb]

I noticed the Battleships but not the rest. Thats interesting lol

[@alexh3974]

they had to start inventing Fish for the submarine fleet, for ones that sounded suitable to avoid US Gold fish etc.

[@JamesWillmus]

@@alexh3974 the USN Asian Carp

[@thelettery6]

I just figured out what kitty hawk was named after the location of the first flight of the Wright Brothers

[@jameshannagan4256]

@@alexh3974 Was there a US Carp I wonder?

[@radishinglad998]

My grandfather worked in the shipyards. He said it was hard work to make this many ships, but everyone believed the Japanese were making them just as quickly While he passed in 2020 at the age of 103, I always come back to this video to remember that his touch, and the touch of millions of Americans in the shipyards, helped win the war.

[@constantinethecataphract5949]

You should have showed him this vid

[@concept5631]

May he rest in peace.

[@ssss-e2m8s]

The United States and the United Kingdom like to lie and exploit their workers during war

[@KeterClass2155]

Your grandfather was every bit a hero as those in service.

[@jameshannagan4256]

The US use of civilian expertise was really impressive.

[@jameshar9592]

Admiral Yamamoto studied in the US and warned the emperor that our concept of mass production could overwhelm japan...he was right!!

[@asga2600]

Well he's the only Japanese who has brain in that time... But he was overwhelmed by idiots

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

Its a shame Hirohito had no power at the time

[@tfraggins]

He's just one of those few who really understand the implications of a war against US and despite knowing that, he went to war, and masterminded the greatest defeat of US in the entire war. His dedication to the empire is amazing, that might've cost him his life but he's going to stay a warrior and a hero. Screw their war council, full of jingoes who steered imperial japan into utter destruction.

[@ItsSerialBoX]

Yamamoto studied in the United States. He traveled it quite extensively also. Even though the US was lazy in its 1930's mindset, he well knew the capability possible if you stirred the nest. He was not an overbearing self serving egotistical warrior like many in the Japanese military.

[@johnfoster8643]

@@asga2600 I don’t know if he was the only one. From what I’ve read the navy had its share of smart, rational leaders, but the army was full of complete lunatics.

[@_datapoint]

Dayum. No wonder the US tested a nuke on its own ships. I’m sure there were plenty after the war.

[@caif4]

Also tested it on captured ships. Poor Nagato. F

[@Spaceman404.]

@@caif4 and Prinz Eugen

[@HaloFTW55]

The US sold ships by the dozens after the war. There were so much surplus material that many even went on open market for civilians to get.

[@Autechltd]

@@HaloFTW55 Its like that episode of Oprah where she gave away cars. SHIPS FOR EVERYBODY!!

[@ericjamieson]

@@HaloFTW55 The Belgrano, the Argentinian cruiser that the British sank during the Falklands War, was originally a WWII ship called USS Phoenix that the US sold off after the war.

[@williamreymond2669]

What is interesting to note is that this video makes no attempt to list many classes of auxiliaries: destroyer tenders, oilers, supply ships, transports, hospital ships, repair ships and landing craft produced during the same time period. When you add in those tonnages of vessels produced, the American ship building program becomes nothing less than jaw dropping.

[@johnlach3700]

or planes for the carriers

[@CM-ve1bz]

William Reymond By 1945 70% of all ships on the water around the world were American made.

[@asga2600]

Its just took damn manyyyyy.......tooo list...

[@ez_company9325]

your damn right it made no effort! this 13 minute video probably took more man hours then most hour long videos by a factor of 3

[@nolanmosher8786]

dont forget lliberty ships 1 ship a day from all 9 shipyards

[@xchazz86]

Japan: "How many ships are you going to make?" US: "Yes."

[@sumponeighknotyew9757]

Japan:"what's you favorite flavor?" US:"LARGE"

[@1racemate]

alot

[@f430ferrari5]

Toyo Masauce Japan - but how many are you going to bring to the Pacific US - Everyone Japan - what do you mean everyone? US - EVERYONE!!!

[@gregoryhickok6300]

@@1racemate in the Army we called it factor P. P=plenty

[@BELCAN57]

Japan "How many? " USA "ALL OF THEM"

[@NguyenMinh-vs1vm]

Drinking game: take a shot for every destroyer commissioned

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

More like a suicide pact.

[@protoculturejunkie]

Are you trying to kill someone? 😛

[@ninjadejedi]

It is not a drinking game, it's just drinking.

[@michaelnewton1332]

I am currently at the hospital getting my stomach pumped. Hope you're happy, asshole!!!

[@kennymendoza1581]

Try drinking a glass of water every time a destroyer is produced, you will OD on water.

[@barleysixseventwo6665]

Alright America You've Made your point, time to stop building destroyers. ...America. ....America Stop! ...America what are you doing!? >When I have enough Fetchers to build a pontoon bridge from San Francisco to Tokyo, then and only then will I have enough destroyers.

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

A fletcher is approx 130m long, the pacific is approx 12000km across. Its 7.5 fletchers in a km. thats some 90 000 Fletchers.

[@aethertech]

@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 time to start building them inland, railroad them to the sea if we must!

[@8vantor8]

we where going to make it 5 thick so they could not stop it

[@1racemate]

no we like them we will make skii boat out of them put big blocks in them more power drag them Assy all over the seas they love to skii

[@JediKnight19852002]

@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 US Production to Roosevelt: The Navy and Marines are moving too quickly for Operation Fletcher Parallel to be achieved.

[@glitch164]

Aug 16 1943: Escort destroyer “Hill” is commissioned. That was the ship my grandpa served on! So cool to see it mentioned on here. Thank you!

[@theboom1694]

Around 1:26 there was a ship commissioned called “Hoe” and one a little while earlier called “harder” who thought those where good names

[@windwalker5765]

She's in WoWs, too, and I have one! I'll sink a couple Axis boats for your grandpa...

[@jamescodyjones]

Grateful for your grandfather's service.

[@Troopertroll]

3:41 for mine, and she's still afloat as a museum ship c:

[@glitch164]

​@@n.m.8802 The general difference: Escort Destroyers were built with idea that they would escort both Pacific and Atlantic merchant fleets and logistics vessels like LSTs, Hospital ships and the like. Their primary foes were Submarines (Atlantic) and Aircraft (Pacific) they dealt with both in both theaters, but as German Aircraft were limited in range and Japanese Submarines hunted large military targets almost to the exclusion of all else until late war, this was the reality for these vessels. A Destroyer in WW2 parlance is an escort vessel which is fast enough to screen a fleet from potential threats. With Carriers, Cruisers and Battleships capable of around 30 knots, a Destroyer was a smaller, faster ship that would be used as a forward, side, or rearguard vessel which prevented the fleet from being set upon by a suprise attack. During combat their job is to charge in and distract, draw fire, and launch torpedo spreads against the enemy capital ships, and to use their gunnery to eliminate their counterparts in the enemies force.

[@pac1fic055]

After lining up all American ships built during WW2 you could walk from Pearl Harbor to Tokyo.

[@incendiarybullet3516]

Pac1fic0 - Just the Destroyers is enough.

[@Thai8521]

@@incendiarybullet3516 Well should be more carriers. If the land is flat, the more you can tell how far you are from Tokyo, but destroyers are well enough XP

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

Is this true? Warships only?

[@anoon-]

@@Chironex_Fleckeri not side by side but I would believe this if they were connected nose to rear

[@g0ast]

"What should we name these destroyers, Keith?" "I don't know Scott, just pick something." "I got you, fam." 3:18

[@moistronaut4755]

Lmao😂

[@GhostTrueCapitalist]

This one got me good

[@martinXY]

My favourite name is Ray.

[@VirgoShelter]

Destoryer were named after deceased American admiral and such

[@ShaDOWDoG667]

All told the United States built 6755 major naval vessels over the course of the war. While, in stark contrast, the total major naval vessels produced by all of the Axis powers combined amounted to 1359 such vessels.

[@Starwarsgeek-98]

Thats including auxilary and merchant ships I believe Everything from cargo ships to minelayers

[@CorsetGrace]

And only 6 USN capital ships, fleet carriers and battleships, were sunk.

[@Starwarsgeek-98]

@@AFT_05G The US produced nearly 500 dedicated Submarine chassers, add to that the already considerable destroyers and Destroyer escorts and uff. Thats not counting dedicated anti submarine aircraft and escort carriers

[@ShaDOWDoG667]

@@AFT_05G The key phrase here being, "...over the course of the war." For reading on the subject www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.590.924%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&ved=2ahUKEwiJlYyXnsjgAhVph-AKHQeaAVoQFjAOegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0bxygP5pRLdGQtlpTBcSv4

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

Before the war, they were planning to build a navy larger than Japan, Germany, Italy, France and England combined. Its to secure their netutrality and make sure that if the Axis won, the US(and the Americas) will be a nightmare to invade

[@username65585]

There is a dude who is swimming across the pacific right now.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

I prove you wrong mhv... Gets eaten by a shark.

[@MostlyPennyCat]

@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Do doooo - do doo - da do.

[@Custerd1]

Hulk swim! Hulk no scared!

[@CT--gs1wj]

Chuck norris

[@alwayscurious3357]

@@CT--gs1wj Chuck Norris doesn't have to swim. He just have to jump to the other side of the Pacific

[@emeryalmasy7727]

Any military strategy that includes the phrase "but they lack the will to fight, so they will give in" is an exercise in wishful thinking, no matter what else is included. Both Germany and Japan started WWII with that assumption. The fact that some opponents had given up in the early stages of the war led to a general conclusion that was wildly optimistic: "they will all give in if we strike hard and fast!"

[@hobmoor2042]

Emery Almasy - You're right. Yanks, Canucks, Anzacs, Brits and Ruskies fight back if kicked. Leave us in peace and we'll be your friend (some see that as a weakness, until they find out otherwise).

[@mjbull5156]

And the way they conducted the raid on Pearl Harbor had the precisely opposite effect on the US public's willingness to see a war through. Instead of "fighting Japan is too hard" reaction they hoped for, they actually inspired a tremendous sense of righteous anger and vengence that wanted Japan utterly defeated.

[@IrishCarney]

@@hobmoor2042 Not sure the Brits and their Imperial allies fought all THAT hard. Tobruk and Singapore come to mind as examples of large numbers of men in fighting condition with extant supplies and well defended positions surrendering to inferior numbers. Put the Soviets or Japanese in those fortresses and you'd have seen a lot more fight.

[@J7Handle]

The strategy works in a purely defensive war. At least if you are as crazy as the Viet Cong.

[@eodyn7]

@@IrishCarney You definitely couldn't say that about the Americans.

[@jotabe1984]

Quantity its Quality by itself... but lets also remember that USN had: 1) Better Radar 2) WAY Better AA 3) Better Carrier Planes (From 1943 for shure) + WAY BETTER Pilots (again, since 1943) 4) WAY Better ASW 5) Better Equipped ground Forces (semi auto carabine + Efficient Tanks) 6) Better Admirals that adapted to newer doctrine faster While IJN had: 1) Better Night Optics, a usefull advantage maybe in 1942 but pointless by 1944 (as Surigao Straight battle showed) 2) Better Carrier Planes and pilots in 1941/1942 (the Planes ended up obsolete and their replacements weren't up to the task... but furthermore, IJN pilots were overused and IJN ended up without Pilots way before ending up without carriers). 3) WAY Better Torpedoes for surface units. Again, a starting war advantage neglected by USN doctrine changes So at the end of the day, USA had more advantages than just the ones provided by numbers. Battle of Midway is a testament of that... since a 24 ship force managed to overcome a 115 ship force

[@grantaldrichaguilar5645]

USN also had better intelligence unit that paved way in winning the war.

[@WuzzyYT]

After midway the Japanese navy was destined to fail

[@ulfenburg7539]

Well, the Japanese never thought they would need a better plane then the zero so they just kept it. But they finally saw they were being outmatched they began to make a lot better designs compared to the zero. The Japanese were very capable in terms of making airplanes such as the ki 94 2 and the ki 83

[@pahtar7189]

The USN also had much better damage control, meaning their ships were much more likely to survive an attack than their IJN counterparts.

[@ulfenburg7539]

@@pahtar7189 That is not the only factor for survivability

[@nerowulfee9210]

- Sir! It appears that one of our destroyer`s crew got drunk and rammed their ship into rocks. - No problem, just give them another destroyer.

[@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

No, give em two.

[@seanmac1793]

You know that actually happened

[@TheOtakuPrince]

Reminds me of the Soviets with one guy saying -Sir, one of our tanks got shot. -Is the crew still alive? -Yes sir, they are. -Good now give them another tank.

[@1racemate]

I love it just go kick there ass

[@kyokyodisaster4842]

@@Extraordinarylurker And, that is another crazy thing... Shermans/Jumbos/Easy Eights...had POSITIVE kill-to-death ratios... The only reason the German tank core was romanticized was because of the fact that they used defensive strategies that Model ordered constructed...even then, a bushed up Tiger tank was never going to stop the constant attacks by Allied tanks. In addition, most German tanks in the war where Panzer threes (which where already pretty damn dated by the beginning of Operation Barbarossa) and fours (which, while not COMPLETELY dated, and effective with the guns they had, where never going to make up with the heavily wall of steel and oil approaching them from east and west.

[@RichardAndewSwayne]

Anyone who has seen the auto factories in Detroit and the oil fields in Texas knows that Japan lacks the national power for a naval race with America. Admiral Yamamoto

[@Zarastro54]

It's a shame most of those auto factories are now defunct and the population largely in abject poverty.

[@windwalker5765]

Yamamoto had seen it, he'd toured the US. And he told the Imperial command that starting a war with us was a bad idea. But Tojo went ahead, so he designed his plan to be devastating at the start, hoping to shock the US into surrendering when we weren't actually beaten.

[@1racemate]

@@Zarastro54 just wait

[@stevenwolfe7101]

Wolfelaw22: It did not help the Japanese side that naval warfare underwent a (no pun intended) a sea change. Before the war, most countries wanted battleships - but it was aircraft carriers that pursued new theories of offensive warfare at sea.

[@jaccovermeulen2762]

I expected the difference to be big but not THIS huge.

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

4 days ago? Oh do Patreons get a secret link?

[@gordonlawrence4749]

It would not have been that big a gap id the USA and UK did not get up to all sorts in China which denied the Japanese the oil they were getting there and other resources and thereby stopped the Japanese ramping up as much as they could have done. Oops forgot the Indians and Ghurkhas they took the bulk of the British fighting in the far east.

[@vincentletzner8638]

Well... people tend to forget that America's industrial output was way below their potential output at the start of the war. The USA was literally a sleeping industrial giant, Pearl Harbor woke it up.

[@pola5392]

The American numbers are from both the theatres, slash it in 2 and you get a more accurate picture

[@gordonlawrence4749]

@Call Me Ishmael however they did have control of large areas of China at the beginning of the war which did have oil etc.

[@keithw4920]

Long story short, Japan tried to play poker with 2x the chips of her opponent, forgetting that the opponent had 10 briefcases full of chips under the table and could also see the reflection of the cards on Japan's spectacles.

[@firebird9711]

LOL nice analogy

[@f430ferrari5]

But there wasn’t 10 briefcases full of chips in 1942. Come on. Stop with the lies. 😂🤣

[@pwnrzero]

@@f430ferrari5 the briefcases were GM, Ford, and Detroit shipworks.

[@f430ferrari5]

@@pwnrzero those briefcases were empty and just started to get chips in there in 1942. That’s the whole point. Japan did have a chance in 1942. They blew it at Midway. The US had 8 cruisers and 15 destroyers. Not too many chips. Yes? Japan had 11 battleships, 22 cruisers, and 64 destroyers plus 9 carriers available and over 500 planes. They didn’t use their chips properly . Will you admit it? Highly doubtful.

[@pwnrzero]

@@f430ferrari5 Didn't matter. Unless Japan conquered the continental US they were fucked. The US could draw upon the resources of a continent, arguably 2 if you included South America. Japan was just starting to expand into Southeast Asia. The US could simply bleed the Japanese dry like the Chinese did. The naval war more than anything else was a war of economic prowess. It takes industrial might to build ships, a trait which the Japanese empire clearly lacked.

[@brendarua01]

Wow! What an amazing way to make your point and drive it home! I can't imagine the time put in to research and then put this together. Thank you!

[@trainknut]

US Army: "Build me more Shermans!" USAAF: MORE BOMBERS! USN: *_Fletcher, x175_*

[@1racemate]

O K

[@stampede122]

The US Air Force didn’t exist in WW2, it was part of the Army until Sept. of ‘47

[@booblizard104]

@@stampede122 that's why they put USAAF not USAF.

[@alexwanatowicz9999]

me in hearts of iron 4

[@thurin84]

american industry; 'YES! YES! YES! was it good for you?"

[@leftfootfirstpolitics]

USA: Yo, Japan, how many ships did you commission today Japan: None USA: Oh. This week? Japan: None... USA: THIS MONTH??? Japan: I'll have u know I built a CVE and 7 subs last month USA: I did that in three days once lol have some more

[@textmachine09]

When the USA built more than 10 allied naval shipyard and was like: "UNIT READY, UNIT READY, UNIT READY, UNIT READY, UNIT READY, UNIT READY, UNIT READY."

[@kingb4490]

RA2 reference?

[@johnquintmatt1986]

Ah I remember Command and Conquer

[@dereenaldoambun9158]

Based USA go for the supplies and secure them first instead of raiding enemy command base in early game.

[@hennessyblues4576]

You forgot "Building"

[@richardtaylor1652]

Meanwhile the Japanese are hearing: "Unit lost." "Unit lost." "Unit lost." "Unit lost." "Unit lost." "Unit lost."

[@OneofInfinity.]

I blame Match making, too many DD's again.

[@kaseybrown7664]

1941 -- "I fear we have awoken a sleeping giant." 1944 -- "WELL HOW BOUT THAT I WAS RIGHT!!"

[@1racemate]

so he wasnt so dumb it just took to long for motto to see it

[@edfrawley4356]

except Admiral Yamamoto was killed in April '43 when his flight was attacked by 16 P38's flying out of Guadalcanal. He was more right than he could have imagined.

[@StryderK]

Ed Frawley mainly because he’s been to US and saw America’s might. Yamamoto was against Japan fighting a war against the US cause he know in a protracted war, the US industrial might will simply swamp Japan.

[@benlex5672]

@@StryderK He literally learned naval warfare in the US and was against war with the US by all means. The only person who had better foresight than he did was the emperor himself, who was against war by all means but could not stop a rogue army that took control of his government by assassinating cabinet members.

[@StryderK]

IMJ Entertainment Studios P-38! The P-40 didn’t have the range to get to Yamamoto!

[@TheIfifi]

Might walk from Berlin to Moscow. You wont swim from pearl harbour to tokyo... damn right. Also love that you admit. Due to the sheer numbers of ships there might be a "chance" of error. Confidence is sexy and you're rocking it.

[@trevynlane8094]

@Marty Man you are delusional.

[@earthyring4393]

@Marty Man World War 2 was a failed attempt by the Axis powers to create a New World Order. At the top? Germans Japanese and Italians. At the bottom? Everyone else. I don't think you actually know what went on in WWII, as there was one side doing most of the war crimes. If the winning sides wanted to exterminate the losing ones they would have, and the Russians seem to have been playing both sides and killing deserving and innocent in the same breath. If they wanted to exterminate the Japanese or Germans they would have. Believe me they would have. While I don't agree with the treatment of the first nations of North America, there isn't a country that hasn't been conquered or conquered others. Even First Nation tribes were warring states, I think there was just nothing that they could do to halt all the nations of the worlds immigrants looking for somewhere to live. Maybe you aren't smart enough to realize the U.S. was created by anyone who waned a piece of it and could find a boat over. Im almost positive the German Populus was the largest in the nation when WWII broke out, so why would Germans have a war on themselves? Oh yea, because all the Axis powers were slaughtering the entire world and that's about the gist of it. If you think the Japanese "Liberated" the Chinese then I guess your just stone cold retarded. WWII started when the Germans and Russians consumed Poland, The U.S. started actively in the war after an attack on a U.S. Naval Base by an axis Power. You probably aren't smart enough to know this, but a large portion of the U.S. populace was against joining another war across the seas. It's why they weren't actively engaged with the Axis powers already. Also The Vietnam war ended with a peace agreement and the removal of U.S. military forces. Vietnam was not taken while the U.S. was actively fighting, they signed peace and U.S. left. When it was just South V North Vietnam there was no chance they could hold. Nobody won or lost that, just a lot of young people died... and I guess the North won against the South.

[@rembrandt972ify]

@Marty Man Wow, what's it like to be wrong about everything? No, don't tell me, your answer would just be wrong.

[@nexus6755]

Lol nah fam i played as USA in HOI4 and invaded Japan and did D-day in 1941.

[@nexus6755]

without Soviet help cause they were pussies and don`t wanna get into this brawl fight we took all of Normandy and i have just capitulated Japan and am nearing the Rhine.

[@Shadowcam00]

Oprah: *_"And if you look under your seats, you'll see the keys to a brand new Fletcher!"_*

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

You get a Fletcher! And you get a Fletcher! Everyone gets a Fletcher!

[@onyxdragon1179]

US Government: "So, how many destroyers are you gonna commission?" US Navy Office: "Yes."

[@Bobis32]

the destroyers were built for the Atlantic fleet to protect the merchant marines feeding the UK

[@onyxdragon1179]

@@Bobis32 destroyers weren't built exclusively to serve as convoy escorts for the merchant fleet feeding the UK. It served as a scout and carrier fleet escort in the Pacific, and also serve as the first line of defense against IJN submarines who were as much a threat as the U-Boats in the Atlantic

[@onyxdragon1179]

@@Bobis32 in fact, I dare say the destroyers in the Pacific theatre saw more action than those on the Atlantic, specially once the enigma code was cracked and the German U-Boat's menace was lowered efficiently. In fact, it was a Pacific fleet destroyer, the Ward, which made the first strike against the axis powers by sinking a IJN sub

[@1racemate]

all of them

[@1racemate]

@@Bobis32 and our people at home

[@woketree21]

I was worried that American escort destroyer production was about to go off screen, crazy numbers

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

It did, I had to adopt the scale several times.

[@ShladTheTonkLover]

Military History Visualized murica

[@markusz4447]

what exactly is the difference between a destroyer and an escort destroyer? is it just displacement basically?

[@roger5555ful]

An escort destroyer is a cheaper destroyer good for chasing smaller shit like submarines,so the destroyers can focus on more important stuff like fighting battleships of to Samar

[@klade5031]

@@markusz4447 Fyi, despite the similar name, escort destroyers are a different type of ship than destroyer escorts. What the video is talking about is the 2nd one. As to your question, think of destroyer escorts as budget destroyers. They weren't meant for frontline combat against enemy vessels (had smaller caliber weapons and slow speed) but were equipped just enough to discourage attacks on convoys from raiders.

[@9559ns]

The truth is kid, the game was rigged from the start.

[@gordonlawrence4749]

@@davidbros849 Nope Yamamoto said this is exactly what would happen as they could not ramp production in China fast enough.

[@rgm96x49]

God damn it Benny.

[@Sungulltzu]

@Marty Man Can't tell if trolling or not

[@icecold1805]

@Marty Man Meh, let's not demonize (not excesively, to the very least) the US, nor even less glorify the axis. The war in the pacific is a war of no-heroes. Two empires battling to expand their spheres of influences in the pacific. Since the US had taken the Philiphines, it was clear their "manifest destiny" was gonna take them into the seas, and Japan knew it needed to find a moment of weakness in the US to strike them. In 1941 they thought they had it, the moment they had been waiting for. It was a gamble, yes, but there was little alternative: if this offensive didn't happen, then eventually the US would have taken the offensive, so better attack now, while they are weak, and hope for the best. Such hope quickly banished, as the sleeping giant awoke, and the roar of american industry grew in strenght.

[@trevynlane8094]

@@Sungulltzu he is definitely trolling. And lazy too, as that has been his reply to other comments, copy pasted word for word.

[@blockmasterscott]

The feeling of euphoria and sheer relief had to have been beyond comprehension for the US Navy at the end of 1942 when all those ships started showing up. Especially for the Enterprise, no longer "Enterprise vs. Japan".

[@potato88872]

that carrier is something of a legend

[@alexh3974]

*Japan* America lacks resolve to fight. *USS Enterprise* Fine we will hold the entire line, come on and get some.

[@dereenaldoambun9158]

The chad Enterprise holding back the IJN VS The virgin Yamato got rekted by US Navy

[@F14thunderhawk]

@@dereenaldoambun9158 the Chad Enterprise vs the IJN andd holfing the line. vs the Yamato fleeing in terror of the Battleship named destroyer escort: the Samuel B Roberts.

[@General_Dane]

I don’t know if Saratoga was in for repairs during the latter part of 1942, but Saratoga, Enterprise and Ranger (who never was deployed in the pacific) was the only pre-war US Carriers to survive the entire war

And subtract the number of ships they respectively lost, the gap would only widen more.

[@carter1940]

Germany gets the mainstream blame for thinking unrealistically/megalomaniacal in regards to the Soviet Union, but the Japanese were even more ignorant on their perceived conquests.

[@TheStephaneAdam]

Well, all Japan wanted was an end to the oil embargo. They thought a quick little war would bring the US at the negotiation table. Basically, they thought the USA was a nation of softies who couldn't possibly stand up to a nation of warriors such as imperial Japan. Turns out the "softies" make for pretty darn good fighters once they start lining up their logistics and making sure their own guys had the best equipment and training they could get.

[@no1DdC]

@@TheStephaneAdam Interestingly enough, America wasn't obsessed with the "best equipment", but rather with cost-effective equipment that was fine for the job and could be produced rapidly and efficiently (although they were certainly leading in many areas). There's a reason why the expensive Thompson submachine gun was replaced by the much, much cheaper M3 Grease Gun, just to name one example. America did not only have industrial might, but also the ability to use it effectively, which is not something that can be said about every WW2 combatant. There was also nothing special about the training, except that, once more, it was done effectively. American pilots for example were rotated back home after certain periods of time so that they could train new recruits. Japan and Nazi Germany on the other hand burned their pilots, leaving them in front-line service until most of them were dead. This led to each generation of pilots being worse than the previous and as the war turned sour for the Axis Powers, shortened training programs to meet demand worsened the issue.

[@TheStephaneAdam]

@@no1DdC Oh yeah absolutely! US equipment was effective, easy to use and reliable. People laugh at the Sherman for example, but it was actually great tank in practical use. Relatively easy to repair, not too prone to break downs and easy to jump out of when it caught fire. US tanker casualties were astoundingly low, a little over a thousand total for the whole war. Compare to the German Tiger. Great tank on paper, unreliable gaz-guzzling artillery magnet in reality.

[@no1DdC]

@David Genestealowitz Definitely not. I could pick a fight with three sleeping price fighters, but after landing a few surprise blows, they'd beat me into a pulp. If Germany had held out longer against the US, they would have received a few nuclear bombs in return. That was the original plan, by the way, but since Germany was defeated before the bomb was ready, it was dropped on Japan instead. Nazi Germany's own nuclear program had absolutely no chance of succeeding, by the way. They were heading into the completely wrong direction and spent the required resources on far less useful wonder weapons. Not to mention, they didn't have a delivery system, a bomber capable of carrying a nuke and even with such a bomber, Allied air superiority would have made it impossible to use.

[@icecold1805]

On japan's defense, they didn't have a choice: they were in the way of US desire to expand his sphere of influence in the pacific, so a war was inevitable. They just tried to balance things out by attacking first when they thought it's opponent was at it's weakest.

[@randomcoyote8807]

IJN: "We rule the Pacific!" USN: *Turns on Firehose o' Destroyers*

[@comradecommie7144]

Britain: By the gods, America, how many ships are you going to make? America: wait was there supposed to be a limit

[@ronanchristiana.belleza9270]

Japanese Navy: Building more Ships? Wait that's illegal! American Navy: I'll Make it Legal Then

[@looinrims]

“Enough to make you obsolete and not a world power”

[@Warmaker01]

The fun thing was the US & UK strictly honored the pre-WWII naval treaties while some like Japan cheated it. When Japan renounced the treaties, there were clauses for increases when such things happen. And when the treaties were done for good, the US basically took the gloves off in production. President Roosevelt ramped up military preparation, production before Pearl Harbor. One of the biggest things he did was ensure the USN got stronger. He was after all, a big fanboy of the Navy when he was younger. In the later WWI-era, he was also the Assistance Secretary of the Navy. Iowa-class Battleships, Cleveland-class Light Cruisers, Fletcher-class Destroyers, Essex-class Carriers. Those were all Pre-Pearl Harbor designs yet still new, and the US had started producing them even before the Japanese attack. The USN had no bigger champion in the US Gov't than President Roosevelt himself.

[@Warhawk76]

Britain: Hey America, how many ships are you going to build? America: ALL OF THEM!

[@mode3763]

America: Yes.

[@MajesticOak]

The economic disparity wasn't even necessarily the biggest mistake: Japan assumed that it'll be fighting against a colonial power on its peripherals, and the implications was that like Imperial Russia in 1904, the US would not see a pacific war as a fight to the death and therefore would not utilize its full potential. Well, it turns out that Japan did misread US culture and mentality, and the Pacific theater did end up pretty much becoming a fight to the death. Also on a side note, the ships produced by Bethlehem Steel alone would have taken on the IJN at its height and have a fair chance of winning.

[@Account.for.Comment]

The biggest mistake is that Japan believed they are destined to rule the world. They controlled Korea and Manchuria, believing that they can invaded and control China, then started to take over the European colonies over East Asia. They have technological edges and win at straight fight but had to deals with people who hated them everywhere and want to be free. The colonists found them to be more racist and horrible than the Eurpeans. The logistics stretch too thin, while their leaders believed that they are in Sunzi deathground and thus can fight harder then everybody else. They are indeed fight harder than everybody else, that it convinced the US to drop two nukes to compelled them to surrender. The war crimes that is commited convince them that they would suffer the same fate if they lost. Since its beginning to most of histories, Japan often never fight foreign states. The Mongol invasion and The Imjin wars is the only ones before the modern eras. After the Meiji Restoration, they have continuous successes, and that made them arrogance. While the US Navy is its most powerful enemy, they are already losing in China and barely hold on. Soviet also want to expand. Japanese leaders were ready to sent Japaneses to fight to the death, but their enemies are fighting for their homes. In the end of the days, Japanese soldiers prefered to be at their home and their enemies often do not have anywhere to go since Japan already invaded their neighbors.

[@browncoat697]

That's an interesting idea: Japan thinks "well, a decisive and highly destructive attack on their outpost in the middle of the ocean shouldn't matter - that's the middle of nowhere, they won't throw away hundreds of thousands of lives and billions of dollars on defending a few islands in the middle of nowhere. They'll fight a bit to defend their honor and then sign a minor peace deal where we trade some territory we don't want for some territory they don't want." After all, the logic seems sound! Why _would_ you fight a massive, ocean spanning conflict all for the sake of a few thousand dead and a few modest islands? That would be Russian or British logic. Attacking a Russian colony in the Pacific would piss them off but they wouldn't fight to the death over it. Britain wouldn't literally nuke you for attacking some Polynesian colony, they've got a bunch of other shit to worry about. America? We're fucking psycho, dude. We blew up/are continuing to blow up a half dozen countries just because some Saudi dudes chilling in Afghanistan destroyed a couple buildings. You kill 3000 Americans in some colony somewhere and it's no different from if you had tried to annex fucking Massachusetts.

[@MajesticOak]

@@browncoat697 although the USA's record in the decades up to that point did not suggest that it would have gone all in the way it did: -Spanish-American war: both sides were fighting on their peripherals, in which the US considered it a "splendid little war". (even more on point was that that war was also started by the sinking of American naval vessel) -Intervention in Mexico: the US sent troops yes, but it wasn't an all out effort. -WWI: the US wasn't able to fully rev up before the war was over, and so the full might of American singlemindedness wasn't displayed. -The Banana Wars: dude, no one cares. Thus from what Japan could see (even before being clouded by their own cultural blinders) that the US behaved similarly to the European colonial powers.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@browncoat697 It wasn't Hawaii that the war was fought over, it was the Pacific Fleet. The UK might not have cared much about Norfolk Island or Tahiti, but if the Japanese had sunk half the Royal Navy at anchor in Ceylon or Singapore the British would have reacted the same way the US did after Pearl Harbor. The reason the Pacific Fleet was in Pearl Harbor to begin with was, of course, China. China was much too important economically for any of the great powers to just sit back and watch another try to conquer the whole country. And mass atrocities like Nanjing weren't making Japan any more popular. Majestic Oak, the US didn't go all-out in those wars because they were not major threats. If the Japanese had looked a little further back to see how the Union states responded to Fort Sumter, they might have thought twice about attacking the "soft" US. What Sherman did to Georgia might have been a useful indicator of what LeMay was likely to do to Tokyo.

[@user-pn3im5sm7k]

Biggest mistake Japan made was thinking Americans would not fight to death for global bankers. They were wrong.

I had an idea we made a few more ships but sweet Jesus this caught me completely off guard. This fight was over before the first shot was made.

[@Pukemnukem]

The US Navy has to drastically shorten the time for basic training during WWII due to the shipyards drastically decreasing the time of new ship production. Boot camp literally became the bottleneck in the last months of the war.

[@teebes2009]

Actually I think it was due to the WAY the first shot was fired. On December 6th most Americans did not want a war. From what I've read, it seems like by December 8th men were lined up around the block to enlist.

[@spikespa5208]

@@teebes2009 For want of a competent decoder/typist in the Japanese embassy, they paid a dear price.

[@tempestfury8324]

No it wasn't! The raid on Pearl Harbor was a crippling blow! The fight had only begun! Our Army Air Force and Navy was not prepared to battle the Japanese in combat. The Japanese weren't training...they were doing...and we had to catch up fast! Our industrial output was on the rise because of our allies in Europe but it was full-blown after Dec. 7th. But some say the industrial might of the United States is the reason for victory. That dismisses the incredible training and tactics that these men had. Which has proven itself, time and again.

[@jasoncross9354]

@@tempestfury8324 pearl harbor wasn't good, but most ships could be raised from the shallow water and repaired. In the beginning of the war Japan had better positioning and more carriers.

[@epeon7]

The USN actually slowed down Escort carriers in 1944. Kaiser could have easily build another 100. Imagine, you have a fleet of 100 escort carriers. Each carrying, say, 24 airplanes. It would be overwhelming

It was

[@MultiCappie]

This has to be one of the best statistical representations I've ever seen. So important to capture the time dimension of the data.

[@tankofnova9022]

In this particular case... not really. U.S.A had more of everything at all times.

[@mrplease66]

I know people who have collected less data for a 5 year PhD than you did for a 13 minute youtube video. I salute you!

[@ShinyaKogamiawesome]

764 destroyers were produced in the span of those 4 years, and yet not a single one was spared to escort the USS Indianapolis. God I love the US Navy

[@theredhunter4997]

Well I mean it was on a secret mission when it was sunk, and the more people that know the secret the more likely it gets out.

[@ShinyaKogamiawesome]

@@theredhunter4997 I don't believe the return trip was secret as the Indianapolis was sailing to meet and perform gunnery practice with the USS Idaho, which was under heavy escort as it was a prewar battleship, but a lot of details on the sinking seem very contradictory so you may be right.

[@DawnOfTheDead991]

@@theredhunter4997 The escort ships' crews would not have to be privy to her mission

[@CorsetGrace]

Subs could only go about 6 knots underwater or 20 on the surface and the Indy could go 35 knots. Plus, how would a submarine, in those days without modern equipment, detect and fire a non-homing torpedo to hit an invisible target? Not sure you really understand naval warfare from the 1940's.

[@williamkim5960]

Most destroyers at the time were escorting troop ships to Okinawa or performing search and rescue for downed B-29 pilots. 764 may sound like a lot but when you consider the sheer amount of transports needed to ferry the men and material for Operation Downfall it's easy to see why there weren't enough destroyers to go around. Also the IJN was so thoroughly wrecked at this point it's not hard to see why an escort was considered unnecessary. The Indianapolis had made far longer journeys unescorted before

[@Pigga-k8k]

when you have more escort carriers than enemy destroyers

[@brucetucker4847]

And more fleet carriers than enemy heavy cruisers.

[@krapto3467]

When you almost have more destroyers than the entire Japanese navy has ships.

[@alitlweird]

Q: When did Japan lose WWII? A: Sunday, December 7th, 1941.

[@matsv201]

We have awakon a sleeping dragon....

[@matsv201]

@M'Load, 1Man Bukkake Baller. Cum hard or go home. well .. hmm i probobly remember wrong... giant?

[@matsv201]

@M'Load, 1Man Bukkake Baller. Cum hard or go home. Well i was thinking.. because they fly and spit fire.. the have to be dragons.

[@matsv201]

@M'Load, 1Man Bukkake Baller. Cum hard or go home. Well i go with that early mustang use the same engine as spitfire.. there for they are the same plane... Yea... that will do :D

[@chrisvickers7928]

@@matsv201 Yamamoto had served as military attache in the US before the war and had been given a tour of Detroit's automotive assembly plants. He knew the war was over before it started but gave it his best shot anyway.

[@crookedshades8194]

The Simpsons "Stop! He's already dead!" Meme comes to mind.

[@girlgarde]

Then we'll make him even MORE dead!!

[@HeIsAnAli]

> He's already dead! ... *_HE IS ALREADY DEAD._*

[@lawrencelewis8105]

@@girlgarde can't go wrong with that!

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

No better kill than overkill

[@Cpt_Boony_Hat]

Yeah but he refuses to accept he’s dead is the problem

[@hullbreach33]

It's also quite difficult for a smaller force to defeat a larger force when the larger force has broken the cryptography of the smaller force.

[@maximaldinotrap]

Yeah, the smaller force needs to demoralize the larger force and it isn't always easy.

[@1racemate]

we will not give up we will cook you like a pot of beans

[@JoeDiGiovanniIV]

Looks like smaller force needs more brains then

[@cannonfodder4376]

There was never any sort of way Japan could have won, not with what they had as we can see. Outmatched in quality and quantity, it was only a matter of time until they were crushed.

[@Snailman3516]

Don't just think about the tonnage, think about the crews and the air pilots. The US was very protective and strategic with the use of their best pilots, often turning them into trainers for new recruits after they prove themselves in battle. The Japanese were more tactical and kept their aces in the sky. Unfortunately for them, the US had invested more in anti air and just the AA of the ships downed a lot of Japanese aces. This lead to an attrition in both the quality and quantity of Japanese pilots while the American pilots simply became more thoroughly expert at aerial combat.

[@jeffbergstrom9658]

When Japan started the war the quality of their ships and crews were every bit as good as the US, better in many cases. However, Japan did not innovate much and stuck with what they had while the US continually improved.

[@lolroflroflcakes]

That quality didn't really do a whole lot for the Japanese seeing as they got stomped while the Americans were still trying to get their shit together with the whole carrier operations thing. Get unlucky and it doesn't matter how good you are, you're still quite dead.

[@thomasscaife6867]

daniel halachev At the beginning maybe, but their quality deteriorated as the war went on.

[@Nonsense010688]

there would been, but it would require for the US to lose the will to win and the Axies was quite arrogant in terms of what they though democracies cable of. I mean if they could have destroyed the naval Oil reverse in pearl habour then they probably would have been 1 year without too much US intervention. Of course this doesn't solve the problem that in order to win they probably would need to take Australia and India and I can't see with them fighting in China having the ground troops for that.

[@Jonconji]

When i was younger and i was like “there’s no way Germany would ever win a war on two front”... but then i forgot that American had two fronts practically across the globe lol

[@bloodyplebs]

The us fought two seperate wars halfway across the world in the 2000s and the average American didn't feel a thing. Pls nerf us.

[@azopeopaz3059]

Not realy usa have mainly a pacific front german lost war was 95% not usa : 70% was from urss 5 % was from losser contry like france , pologne , greece that weak german by the batle or by the german occupation that take away troop from front 15% was uk and only 5% was usa that mainly do production support. And even in pacific it was not a 100% usa win : i would say 50% was usa 20% china 5% urss (by block japan divition in manchouria )5% was dutch and 18% was uk + comonwealt +2 other . Overall the allied victory was 50% urss 30% uk 10 usa and 10% other BUT the victory gain was 80% for usa and 20 for other so for weak war effort usa gain a lot the bigest prize was the geraman gold 90% of usa today gold is originated from german resserve (usa 3rd army take german gold in francfort) and german gold come mainly by take it from occupates contry. The bigest ironys for exemple is france financial help was mainly originated by the gold that usa take from germany and 70% of german gold come from france so basicaly they help france by use the money that was steal from france

[@BenAnkenmann]

@@azopeopaz3059 Where are you getting all these numbers from? And the US definitely had two fronts. They were almost half the invading force in western Europe and the vast majority of the naval force in the pacific. There were certainly others helping, but you can't deny a 2 front US war.

[@azopeopaz3059]

@@BenAnkenmann @Ben Ankenmann usa fight against 10 maximun div in west front the rest surender the moment they meet because they prefered surender to usa the urss fight 200 german div : in d day 95% of german force was in east , the majority of german navy was destroyed way beford us comme in europe the the moment usa comme to war the german have already lose in all front, they just need to send some divition in europe and japan navy is behind uk navy that would take care of japan after win in eurpope so overall the american war effort is way less important that all other

[@BenAnkenmann]

@@azopeopaz3059 You're mixing up your arguments. The argument was whether or not the US had a 2 front war. The answer is undeniably yes. In response to your other points: 1. I'd argue that making your enemy prefer to surrender than fight is the better strategy. 2. Japan's navy would have been incredibly difficult for the UK to take on. Especially if the US hadn't helped 3. The war would have definitely lasted longer and may not have ended with unconditional surrender of Germany and/or Japan without US help. Stating that the "American war effort is way less important than all other" is incorrect. The USSR and/or UK may have contributed more (I'm not actually sure, though they definitely sustained more direct attacks) but at worst America contributed 3rd most and had a huge impact in shortening the length of the war. To be complete honest, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

[@HistoryGameV]

Waiting for the "But if they had sent the third wave at Pearl Harbor...!" faction...

[@jackray1337]

And hit the oil tanks? Because ...you know..."What about the oil?"

[@danielmunoz2220]

But if they had sent the third wave at Pearl Harbor they would have gotten a year instead six months. more than enough time for the decisive battle.

[@buttbuttson737]

@@danielmunoz2220 It still amazes me how Japan figured that the war would be decided in one, decisive battle. It isn't like Japan had no knowledge of how naval warfare worked, but for some reason they still held onto a doctrine that had been obsolete since the invention of steam ships.

[@klobiforpresident2254]

@@buttbuttson737 Considering how the naval aspect of the war was handled when they faced the Russians this made sense. Then again, so did thinking the USSR would come crashing down after Barbarossa.

[@thekittenofwar4421]

@@danielmunoz2220 13:10, or why a decisive battle doesn't matter

[@LewisRenovation]

That’s why I find WWI more interesting. Either side could have won up until the last 6 months. WWII seems to mostly decided before its 1/4 over.

[@hazzmati]

It was limited but critical in that moment of '41 and '42 since the soviets were transporting their production facilities behind the urals. Allied material aid also meant less need for workers and more men available as soldiers

[@arisukak]

WWI was the same way. Just compare the resources the allies had, versus the central powers. The central powers really lacked oil, rubber, horses and most importantly, food. Germany had the same problem in 1914 as they did in 1918. Any and every breakthrough could not be exploited as they could not advance fast enough.

[@gordonlawrence4749]

Actually Germany could have easily won WWII if they had not made so many screw-ups. The ME262 could have been flying at least 2 years earlier as could the FW190 but Hitler basically did not believe the BF109 was not enough and then tried to get the ME262 changed to a light bomber. The Germans were still fielding PanzerIII near the end of the war as they were spending stupid amounts on TigerII which could have been replaced with something crazy like 8 Panthers (OK the panther has issues but it's way better than a panzer III). Then there is the massive force of according to some 1000 Panthers which were near one of the invasion beaches (actually between two I believe) that Hitler had personal charge of. They did not take part and repel the invasion because Hitler was asleep and nobody dare wake him. I could go on but you get the idea. I have actually heard it said that the allies best general was Hitler.

[@Schmidty1]

@USERZ123 wrong soviets machine tools were 90% lend lease. They could not have developed a proper industry after it was on wheels without lend lease.

[@alreadyblack3341]

@@gordonlawrence4749 This only goes into the technological advances made in the war. Do you not understand that in order to field any of these war machines, it requires oil, metal and such. Resources that Germany's western and eastern armies were fighting over for the duration of the war? Resources were scarce, and Germany would not have been able to gain access to enough resources in time to halt the opening of more than one theater. The German military made mistakes in it's combined force and it's use, they failed to set up proper facilities for a defence capable of standing against the invasion fleets of the United States and Britain, failed to properly equip their troops on the eastern front, and wasted resources on countless side projects that had little overall effect. The ME262 is great and all, until you realize that they couldn't train pilots for it fast enough, and most were sitting in the hangers for the duration of their existence. Also, the United States would have developed the nuke first anyways, as the German's dropped their own nuclear weapons project after their source of deuterium, hard water from Norway, was destroyed by British special forces.

[@Warmaker01]

I know everybody gets wrapped up in Battleships, Carriers like Essex and Yorktown classes, and the sheer amount of Destroyers / Destroyer Escorts that were being produced, but attention needs to be paid to the 9 Light Carriers and *76* Escort Carriers and those Submarines. I know the US used a bunch of CVEs for convoy escorting and submarine hunting groups against U-Boats, but these were also being used to supplement the big Fleet Carriers in the pacific. If you look at orders of battle in the Pacific War you'll see these little, cheap CVEs being assigned to support amphibious operations and ground support. This frees up the Fleet Carriers to look out and specifically kill warships. They did this lots of times once we're in 1943 with Tarawa and subsequent operations. When Kurita's Center Force pushed into Samar against Taffy 3, the relentless attacks by the fleeing CVEs and the desperate DD / DDE attack runs to cover the retreat, Kurita thought he was dealing with the main US Fleet Carrier air attacks. The Japanese were losing ships to a bunch of CVEs and DDs / DDEs, and he gave the order to turn around and retreat. There were no aircraft from the American Fleet Carriers, nor Battleship, nor Cruisers to help Taffy 3 because Admiral Halsey was an idiot. It was only CVEs and Destroyers there. Also, the USN Submarines had spectacular success. The Japanese never could focus on the Allied Submarines like the Allies did against the German U-boats. They didn't have the resources. They couldn't even replace the Destroyers they were losing in the Solomon Islands and Guadalcanal Campaigns from 1942-1943. Those USN Submarines accomplished what the Kriegsmarine's U-Boats were trying to do. Shipping was literally strangled by US Submarines and they were spotting IJN movements, harassing them, and even claiming lots of warships. Matter of fact, things were going so good for the USN Submarines that they got directives to HUNT Destroyers, because the Americans knew that Japan couldn't replace them. "Late in the war the area north and east of Luzon was known to the Japanese as 'the Sea of the Devil'. In 1944 a common saying in Singapore was that 'one could walk from Singapore to Tokyo on American periscopes.'" maritime.org/doc/subsinpacific.htm

[@brianlong2334]

German U boats sunk 3,500 merchant ships or 21,000,000 tons and 175 war ships, 1,325 to 2,325 civilian ships out of a total of about 5,000 to 6,000 ships sunk, The Japanese lost 2,117 merchant ships or about 8,000,000 tons, 611 IJN or about 1,800,000 tons, 15,518 civilian ships.

[@SuperCatacata]

@@brianlong2334 The big difference would be how a majority of German U-boats were destroyed by the Allies. At the end of the war, they were the ones being hunted. Also what was the total percentage of merchant shipping sunk? I'm assuming that there were more vessels making that trip to Europe to aid both GBR and the Soviet Union.

[@brianlong2334]

@@SuperCatacata Germany sunk about 21,000,000 tons of merchant goods. Just under 17,500,000 was delivered to Russia from the USA and 4,000,000 more from the British empire. UK received from America about 52,000,000 tons. So the total was about 91,000,000 tons so about or over 20% was stopped by Germany. Germany lost over 700 u-boats out of a total of 1,100+ So 21million for 1,100 vs 400 for 4million. USA had almost free range unmolested vs Germany had the bulk of the Royal navy and USA navy.

[@SuperCatacata]

@@brianlong2334 Any of those stats for the Japanese shipping too? That's pretty impressive that they were able to sink 20% all things considered. Also, having 700 U-boats sunk out of 1100 really is a majority of them being destroyed.

[@brianlong2334]

@@SuperCatacata Only the 8,000,000 tons of Japanese suply sunk, but all most all of it's merchant ship's were sunk. At lest its pre war fleet, it did build some 500 more merchant ships that were still bringing in 8million tons of supplies in 1945. The USA also claims to have sunk 8million tons of oil alone so take it with a grain of salt.

[@baconpwn]

"Shoukaku and Zuikaku are the perfect carrier. Vastly superior to anything you may have." - IJN "Allow me to introduce you to Essex. And her sister. And her sister. And her sister. And her sister. And her sister. And her sister. And her sister. And her sister. And her sister. And her sister. And she has another dozen or so coming. And if you manage to beat them, Midway Magic is coming." IJN has left the game

[@Tachyon836]

The resources of an country spanning a 3rd of a continent vs a small island nation It was no contest. Japan really shouldn't have bombed Pearl Harbor

[@blockmasterscott]

And in addition to attacking a country that spanned the third of a continent, they also did it in a way that filled the worlds greatest economic power with a cold fury that solidified its entire population to fight to the death. With Germany, it was just business. With Japan, it was public enemy number one.

[@PeterNygard69]

They didn’t have a choice

[@Activated_Complex]

IJA: “We wanna keep ravaging China, so go get your fleet sunk as slowly as possible.” IJN: “.....”

[@yeetboi1oof976]

About that...

[@Veskhai]

"What fleet?"

[@brianlong2334]

IJN: "I can give you 4 maybe 5 years" IJA: "I told you war with the soviets would have bean better but no Navy gets all the resources still"

[@livethefuture2492]

@@brianlong2334 war with the soviets would have been suicide. and really war with the US was inevitable because japan needed the resources of southeast asia and would have invaded the region taking British, Dutch and American possessions resulting in a direct conflict with japan.

[@brianlong2334]

@@livethefuture2492 I would agree if they were fighting the Russian's alone but they wouldn't be. The Russian's were actually worried about the Japanese because they could supply and support its troops better then Russia could that far away from it's population, industry and government centres, who were a lot farther away then the Japanese. I don't see how the Soviet would have survived passed 43/44 had the Japanese invasion of Siberia not been cancelled on the 1st of August 1941, the same day and hours after the oil embargo the Japanese almost moved 400,000 men out of Manchuria over night to get ready for an invasion of the pacific. The Japanese invasion of the Dutch east Indies was due to the American oil embargo. The Japanese actually offered American all of it's gained land but Korea and Manchuria and non-aggression pact with at lest American, but also would hopefully include the UK and the Dutch and they wouldn't declare war on any nation in the south pacific. American refused all and demanded total loss of all territories out side there main island's and I believe the wording was something alone the lines of, the USA cannot guarantee that it would not be at war with the Japanese in the future and could not guarantee a non-aggression pact, the same day the Japanese navy left for pearl harbour. The Japanese had planed for an invasion of eastern Siberia and part's of central Siberia, why also taking about half of Mongolia this was to be no later then September 1941 however it was cancelled on the 1st of August 1941 as mentioned above. So if American didn't place the oil embargo on them, the Japanese wouldn't have invaded Dutch east Indies. The Japanese new they could only fight the Soviet or American not both that's why they went out of there way to get a none a aggression pack with the Soviets and succeeded, freeing up hundreds of thousands of men and thousands of tanks, planes, horses and artillery for the Soviet to be sent to fight Germany over then next few years. The Japanese wanted the Dutch east Indies because of the oil it produced, it was about 65million barrels a year, the Japanese estimated war with American and china they would need 35million barrels, however the Japanese never obtained more than 6million barrels a year after they took it. And they produced about 3million barrels them self, other resources were also the same at the end of the day they didn't get the resources anyway, they would have been better of attacking Russian and getting it that way. As an example the Island above Japan that's part of its island chain, that is part of Russian then and now, produced 8million barrels at the time, now you mite say it's not the 65million barrels they wanted but the oil deposits is estimated to have 2.3 to 7billion barrels still available under the ground it's also produced about 1billion barrels since the 1940s. It's about 1,500km from Tokyo or 300km from there main island's, the Dutch east Indies is about 4,500km from Tokyo. The Japanese navy estamated they needed 17million barrels a year to contend with the USA it never had more then 7million barrels and was basically out of oil after 1942.

[@MpowerdAPE]

The more I read about the war in pacific... the more I wonder what the hell the Japanese were thinking.

[@Morrigi192]

Compliance with American demands was an impossibility due to their political dysfunction, so they made a wild gamble and lost. Badly.

[@Jupiter__001_]

They had an oil embargo by the USA, so they had to find some, and they went looking in South East Asia...

[@anderskorsback4104]

They were thinking that 1) They really need more oil to keep the warmachine rolling, after having been embargoed by the USA, so they need to conquer Southeast Asia 2) Doing so will inevitably make the USA join the war 3) If they manage to strike hard and fast against the USA, it will back down and let Japan continue its wars of conquest With hindsight, 2) and 3) were both catastrophic miscalculations.

[@Jupiter__001_]

@Nobody Knows Indeed. I was just explaining their thought process.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

Arius Krieg why hindsight? Someone should have given the Japanese high command a US military history textbook. In the preceding hundred years the us had fought wars of extermination against its native population, won a civil war using much the same methods it used against its natives, expelled the remnants of the Spanish empire from the Americas, conquered the Phillipeans, got involved in WW1 , one of the reasons being sneak attacks on American Shipping, and interfered in the internal politics of central and South American nations. Does this sound like a country that’s going to back down to an act of aggression?

[@zacharyzier314]

USN: How many ships can you build us? American Shipyards: Yes. USN: Awesome. American Shipyards: So when do want them? USN: Yes.

[@raymondrenick4828]

When the US goes more Dakka on the the Japanese Navy. As an American, I have to shake my head at what the Japanese were thinking a war with us was going to be like? The Russo-Japanese war?

[@Scriptedviolince]

Yes actually. The entire idea was that the attack on pearl harbor would knock out the USN for 6 months in order to allow the IJN to finish up with rolling up the Philippines, Malaysia, and Indonesia, after which America would blithely and obligingly hurl the entirety of the USN across the Pacific Ocean at Tokyo to fight a decisive battle within range of japanese land based aircraft, unsupported and at the end of a ridiculous logistical train where the USN would lose, driving down support for the war, and allowing Tojo to negotiate peace terms from a position of strength. Yes. Really.

[@deadbutmoving]

What Samuel Wang said is basically it. They figured if they had enough time to consolidate their strength in East Asia, they would be able to defeat the US navy in a decisive battle causing the American people to question if it was really worth spending so much time, money, and American lives fighting for Asians on the other side of the Planet. The American people would pressure the American government to negotiate a peace deal which would include Japan keeping all the territories she had taken in East Asia. That was the plan. Japan's top industrial and military leaders knew they could never defeat the Americans in a long drawn out war of attrition. Japan is a small country no bigger than California with much fewer people and much less resources than the US. Japan was never going to win in the long run and everyone knew it.

[@Joesolo13]

@@deadbutmoving I love how all the axis war plans were basically "We'll beat them so bad they all just start giving up!" Because if they were any more cautious they'd realize they were fucked in a real war.

[@Whatatwist2009]

As some already stated they did not think the US had the will for a long grind of a war. That they would run wild after pearl harbor and consolidate a nice area. The US would be unwilling to fight a long war and try a strike at a major area or Japan itself and they would engage in a deceive battle. Win it and the American public would want peace. Once they saw the US began its island hoping campaign to slowly build a supply chain to strike at Japan itself they likely knew the war would be lost. The IJN kept looking to get that knock large battle to break to spirit of the American public but they never got the chance. In fact the major battles fought were normally at when the IJN was at a disadvantage or not looking for a major fight.

[@wtfbros5110]

pretty much, they fell for the "decisive battle" meme

[@admiralkirk6103]

"had virtually no chance" Ah, see! All they had to do was X, Y, and Z then they could have easily won!

[@ShladTheTonkLover]

ParselyBunny not as powerful as his chins

[@MrRikersBeard]

All Japan had to do was scream, "I have the power of god and anime on my side!" and they would have one.

[@HaloFTW55]

Deploy mechas like Mobile Suits... Then again, the US will nick the design and make Gundams for themselves. Wait... I just spoiled the plot for the original Gundam.

[@andrewp8284]

Reading some of the comments, indeed. all Japan had to do was: X, Y, Z, Xa, Xb, Xc, Xd....Za, Zb, Zc...Zz...and they could've beaten the big bad US lol

[@Martz604]

Can't tenno heika banzai your way out of this one.

[@venn2001ad]

LOL! This really made me laugh. xD

[@THESLlCK]

Martz O O F

[@IrishCarney]

Cowardly traitor! All you have to do is tighten your hachimaki and chaaaaarge! Inevitable victory sure to follow. Don't trip on the huge numbers of corpses of our glorious comrades from the previous charges...

[@fenderOCG]

Even more insane is that Japan couldn't even provide sufficient fuel, supplies and trained men for the limited ships they had. From the very beginning they had orders to conserve fuel and ammo which reduced training and even avoided shore bombardments.

[@richardtaylor1652]

Meanwhile the US are busy working out the logistics of providing fresh ice cream for their troops and Marines.

[@paulbricker9077]

Japan: Yes! We’ve crippled their navy US: lol

[@1pcfred]

Sinking the relics that were in Pearl Harbor probably saved American lives. Because if they were sunk further at sea more would have perished.

[@keenanhaug8814]

Lol

[@coolday1111]

Just build a new one

[@narayasuiryoku1397]

69 nice

[@daneilfranklin]

Germany: *makes the bismark* UK: *sicks bismark with airpower.* Japan: Ouch... good thing we won't let that happen to the Yamamoto! US: [Laughs in dive bomber]

[@tonyh.a5489]

Yamato not Yamamoto

[@maximaldinotrap]

Yeah, this was pretty much the war that said that Battleships were pretty much obselete or at least as flagships.

[@許進曾]

@NotFBIAgent Well if the SB2C Hell diver wasn't enough we will add more TBF Avengers and Fighters with tini tim

[@javiergilvidal1558]

@@tonyh.a5489 ... and "Bismarck", not "Bismark"!

[@iansneddon2956]

@@tonyh.a5489 If the timing had been a little different they might have sunk Yamamoto too, rather than sending the plane he was on crashing into the jungle. But yeah.

[@ethanmcfarland8240]

*someone Tell America this isn’t a Race* Oh wait

[@BlackBlood297]

UK Navy: "We're the largest & most power Navy on the face of this planet" US Navy: "Haha that's cute"

[@thurin84]

heres 50 used destroyers we lost track of......

[@lawrencegabrieln.fabula2380]

In numbers the RN was larger until about... late 42 early 43.

[@EndOfSmallSanctuary97]

The Royal Navy had a much larger area to disperse its ships to - English Channel, North Sea, Atlantic Ocean, Mediterranean Sea, Indian Ocean, and finally the Pacific Ocean.

[@thurin84]

@@EndOfSmallSanctuary97 the us navy also was in all those places.

[@livethefuture2492]

it was still the largest at the start of the war, and played a significant role in protecting allied shipment to the UK. they also played a major part in d-day.

[@ScienceChap]

To quote Yamamoto in Tora! Tora! Tora!... "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

[@1racemate]

the one time he was right

[@CM-ve1bz]

Science Chap He might have thought it but there's no record or individual to indicate he ever said it.

[@stevekolarik2857]

C M none, zero, zip, no.

[@ScienceChap]

@@CM-ve1bz I know. Hence I quote the movie, not the man.

[@appalachianwolf1187]

Japan: Look at this cool ship I built! United States: Look at these 2 bombs we built!

[@generalzod8589]

Your joke. Is very dishonorable to my ANCESTORS! BANZAI!! 😋

[@tyler89557]

And the accompanying dozen ships.

[@livethefuture2492]

Japan: look i built the biggest battleship in history! United States: i built 8 carriers and over 1000 planes to accompany them!

[@roger5555ful]

The Us was like: You came to the wrong ocean fool

[@JGlennFL]

We built 50,000 tanks as well. There's a reason we were known as "the arsenal of democracy".

[@thurin84]

during peak production in 1944 a completed warplane rolled off an assembly line somewhere in america on average, EVERY 5 MINUTES!!!

[@Ron52G]

The US built almost as many training aircraft during WW2 as the Germans built fighter planes.

[@jonwoodhouse1444]

Actually, the US Built 100,000 tanks. 50,000 was the number we had in the field.

[@alexh3974]

@@thurin84 a single factory got to stage of making a single heavy bomber rolling off every hour. that's 24 a day, 168 a week, or 672 a month if could be sustained.

[@playboicartiismydad4842]

The US industrial power was insane

[@playboicartiismydad4842]

@A I cant take someone seriously who uses the word "Islamocrats"

[@eodyn7]

@A amazing how incorrect you can be.

[@1racemate]

and still is

[@thurin84]

IS insane. we can turn that tap on again at any time.

[@thurin84]

@A nope. it was slick willy and the democrats. the republicans did whine about it a bit.

[@okrajoe]

American shipbuilding industry be like - bro, we got this.

[@esmondcrewe3858]

okrajoe There is absolutely no doubt that America truly gets going when it decides to get going, to my knowledge no nation on earth can get into gear and get it done like America, p.s. I am an America loving Canadian.

[@davidsabillon5182]

The amount of time it took to put this together deserves praise. Thank you

[@williamreymond2669]

Every once in a while I come back and rewatch this video because it is so jaw dropping. The only categories of combatant ship production the Japanese were able to compete with the Americans *at all* was submarines and escort destroyers at about half. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, this production does not even count the American's huge production of auxiliaries, transports, and landing craft. What were the Japanese thinking??

[@bcluett1697]

Something along the lines of "Our emperor is God and God says we can beat them" Up until Midway the prospects seemed attainable. Yamamoto having studied abroad in the U.S. seemed to have an understanding though.

[@williamreymond2669]

@@bcluett1697 Yeah, Yamamoto famously reported home that there were more automobiles in the city of Washington DC, that in the whole of Japan. However, the Doolittle Raid of April '42 also ought to have significantly dinted the Japanese confidence. How did the Japanese keep a lid on it right up till August of '45? Reading James Bradley's 'Flyboys,' really turned me inside out on the whole topic. The Japanese *ate* their own dead soldiers, not just dead enemy soldiers and civilians. The Japanese - I should be more specific - the Japanese Emperor Hirohito and his high command, were prepared to allow *20 million* Japanese civilians perish in the final defense of Japan. To preserve Japan's honor. Then we decided to keep Hirohito on as Emperor when the Japanese themselves might just as well have allowed him to be hung by us like Tojo.

[@lionhead123]

well they had 2 battleships with really big guns, and they actually believed they were unsinkable. Truth be told, a lot of bombs and torpedoes were needed to sink them(and i mean a lot), but yeah.

[@the_undead]

@@lionhead123 I don't recall ever hearing the Japanese thinking they were unsinkable, but the estimate was that one Yamato class could take on two standards and comfortably win, so 2 yamato's takes out the entire Colorado class and one Tennessee class in the battle line. What they were not expecting was the Americans putting up practically the entire Pearl harbor strike force against a single battleship

[@cck4863]

Funny as it sound, the main reason US didn't build that many submarine was that they couldn't get crews for it. The working condition of sub was so bad that double the pay and dayoff did jackshit.

[@GenghisVern]

Cool-- Dad's ship is listed, USS Loeser DE-680 destroyer escort!

[@decrobyron]

Respect

[@nathandamaren2093]

Question. How old are you sir?

[@GenghisVern]

@@nathandamaren2093 59. Dad served in the early 50s when Loeser was assigned to the Atlantic. LtJG

[@nathandamaren2093]

@@GenghisVern very interesting. Thanks for satisfying my curiosity sir.

[@fatboyrowing]

Vern Etzel My father served on the USS Slater DE 766 in late 1945 and 1946. He is one of the last WW2 crew members alive (will be 92 this month). In his early to mid 80s, he was quite active in its restoration on the Hudson in Albany NY. It’s an amazing museum ship. The Twin 40s work like Swiss watches. It’s worth the trip to honor America’s greatest generation.

[@stevecoscia]

Informative video - the numbers speak for themselves. I bet that the Japanese didn't grasp the USA's industrial and manufacturing powerhouse. Thanks for producing this - I'm glad to be a Patreon subscriber.

[@Xaviar_St.Thomas]

Steve Coscia Yamamoto had America’s manufacturing base in mind before he formulated the Pearl Harbor Attack Strategy. What history books are you reading ??

[@Shenaldrac]

I think they did. They just didn't think it would matter. Remember, they were planning on a very quick, decisive war- like Germany planned with Russia. Their hope was to inflict one or more serious, crushing victories over the US to convince them to come to the negotiating tables, since what they wanted were certain territories, iirc. Not total conquest. What they failed to grasp was A) how difficult it would be to achieve those decisive battles, and B) just how much their surprise attacks on December 7th would enrage and galvanize the American population against them. Given their recent easy conquest of a large, powerful (in their eyes) nation in the form of China, the idea of getting a few quick wins and a population that would capitulate easily makes some sense if you look at it from Imperial Japan's perspective. Again, much like how Germany figured Russia would be a pushover after they so recently lost to the Finns in the Winter War.

[@bami2]

Didn't Yamamoto claim that they would run wild for 6-12 months after pearl harbor, after that get absolutely rekt by the united states' industrial power?

[@jeffbergstrom9658]

Admiral Yamamoto, Japan's commander-in-chief and architect of the Pearl Harbor attack, spent time in the US as a naval attache in Washington DC and studied at Harvard University for a while. He was well aware of the US industrial might and opposed war against the US. He had hope Pearl Harbor would be sufficient to put the US on the backfoot and that by the time the US got back in Japan would have consolidated its hold on the South Pacific. That or the US would just not bother. After Pearl Harbor Yamamoto was quoted as saying, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

[@tomhutchins7495]

I think that's true, and there's also a second dimension to it. Certainly there seems to have been a misconception among the Axis about how easily manufacturing lines could be diverted to different products, the ability of manufacturing engineers to develop world-leading designs that could be mass-produced, and a sense that war materiel and consumer goods are fundamentally different. See Goering's statement that the US could produce cars and refrigerators but not tanks or aeroplanes. The other side of this was a view from the Axis powers that the democracies were fundamentally weak and would not have the stomach for protracted war. This is a misreading of the economics of the time: Britain and France were bankrupted by WW1 and then hit by the Depression. They could not afford to sustain their empires and were looking inwards, hoping crises could be averted. Thus Japan believed the US would end its oil embargo and sign away its periphery interests in the Western Pacific if it were given a strong blow. Likewise Hitler believed that Britain would negotiate once the BEF was defeated, (and pretty much everyone thought the USSR would collapse). What they missed was the way in which the democracies tended to respond to major aggression: all-out war with the objective of regime change, and where the industrial and technological capacity was mated to a sense of righteousness. There's an interesting if distasteful point which emerges: having seen "them do it first", retaliatory actions were carried out on a scale that the originators could not have dreamed of. Consider that the firestorms which consumed Cologne, Dresden, Tokyo and others, not to mention the nuclear bombings, were seen as the enemy "reaping the whirlwind" which they sowed with Guernica, Nanking, Coventry, London and others. Misreading the industrial capacity of the US was certainly a factor, but without the will to fight which the Japanese created with the Pearl Harbour raid, it would have been an academic point.

[@micfail2]

The time lapse of ship numbers is awesome, I've never seen it displayed in such an easily digestible way before. Excellent video.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@the_undead]

Do keep in mind there is almost certainly errors somewhere in this video because as military history visualized said there's well over a thousand ships that are needed to be accounted for and that's just too much for one person

[@thedungeondelver]

Japan: *VICTORY OR DEATH* US Industrial Might: *Your terms are acceptable.*

[@SimonNZ6969]

>When you can't be arsed creating a bunch of different units. So you just spamming that one type

[@Yorkington]

God, the Fletcher-class were amazing for their purpose. 175! Amazing ships qualitatively and in quantity.

[@Quadrolithium]

If the type is effective, why the fuck not?

[@RangerJahu]

Older video, but I just want to give you some kudos for the phrase "You might walk from berlin to moscow, but you're not going to swim from pearl harbour to tokyo" it perfectly visualized the concept of the logistical constrains. well said.

[@darrenvanderwilt1258]

Wars are won through logistics. While the number of combat vessels is impressive, it was the high number of supply ships necessary to support combat operations in both theaters that had greater impact. Awesome video!

[@1racemate]

we had it all

[@seanmac1793]

the shocking thing is the US was able to operate this on the go with basically no prepared bases except for the need for dockyards for major repairs

[@nolanmosher8786]

u are partially right, but even then 1 dock made 1 liberty ship in a day

[@darrenvanderwilt1258]

The US also had about 150 auxiliary repair docks. This prevented having to sail damaged ships back to the states for repairs.

[@nolanmosher8786]

@Samuel Brown we wouldn't if if Japanese won midway than it would be more painful for them bc we had nuclear power even if we didn't we had more tactics and firepower all they had was kamikaze and island defense