Why Juilliard Students are Protesting

[@nxmiles]

imagine increasing fees in a pandemic when there's a massive drop in people's income and then being surprised when those people get upset

[@wanrazul]

Juilliard still need to pay the utility bills, HVAC costs, maintenance, operations...etc. There arent such things as free lunches.

[@ckchang-wg2lw]

Lol

[@pleasedyes]

@@wanrazul yes, but all of these schools have a lot of money, there’s no need to increase prices

[@strawberryastronaut]

@@wanrazul Watch the full video. There is little to justify increasing tuition by 18% in one year, especially when the former president of the school received a one million dollar bonus. (:

[@deathbower]

@@wanrazul Utility bills aren't going to increase outside of inflation. If the tuition fee rise is in line with inflation, then it's reasonable (I don't know if it is or not), but chances are its greater than inflation. Edit: After watching the video, it's about a 10% increase, far greater than inflation.

[@mudswallow5074]

Music loving lawyer here - when I was in law school, our institution more than doubled our tuition. Yep, they played that trick on *law* students. Yep, we sued as soon as we graduated, they lost the suit and we recovered a hefty chunk of our tuition😁 Advice to music students - if you know a former musician who went to law school (there are lots of us), keep up the friendship.

[@mnels5214]

Good. I'm glad you sued and I'm glad you won! Not sure when you went but right after I graduated they started churning out a whole bunch of new schools and it was so obviously a money grab. It ridiculous the way universities look at students as piggy banks and not as students.

[@pjcpiano]

That’s an amazing story hahaha

[@stardolphin783]

Uno reverse card 📜

[@AD-lh3jk]

Poetic justice is beautiful

[@sciencefictionisreal1608]

Boss move.

[@h5mind373]

Our daughter was accepted to several U.S. schools, all of whom were charging more than $60K a year tuition. Much of that would have had to be covered via student loans (ironically, the REAL reason U.S. tuition has skyrocketed). She realized that would be a very poor ROI (Return on Investment). Instead, she chose an excellent university in the Netherlands, where the tuition is around $3K a year. She will graduate debt-free next year and already has several job offers in her field. So no, Juilliard is not worth it.

[@mattbrown292]

@@alexleanh It has nothing to do with capitalism, actually the opposite. The problem is that the US government essentially will provide unlimited loans for you to go to school. So it has become a game of chicken on who is willing to take on more debt. When people self financed or paid out of pocket school was a lot cheaper.

[@Ciaccona255]

Wooow incredible! So happy for her!

[@Ciaccona255]

@@mattbrown292 it has everything to do with capitalism

[@mattbrown292]

@@Ciaccona255 Wow, what a great explenation!

[@mattbrown292]

@@alexleanh LOL the government giving loans to anybody for any degree of any amount is not capitalism. Here is the definition of capitalism "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.". The higher education industry in the USA is under significant control by the state due to the loan program. This creates the market inefficiency that I pointed out earlier. Maybe you should go to school before telling others to do so.

[@sarahm4046]

If universities are going to treat their students like customers, then students need to treat those universities as businesses. If you don’t give me a good quality product for a good price, I’ll take my business elsewhere, regardless of the name and reputation of the brand.

[@FOXHOUND1871]

The ironic thing is that students have given universities this power over them by their own wokeness. If universities now have the power to prosecute students and penalize them for saying things like "It's okay to be white" then they are definitely going to crucify you for protesting via speech over tuition and fees.

[@Larindarr]

@@FOXHOUND1871 lest not forget that the ones that are in the worse situation are the international students who pay 5X the tuition amount from much weaker currencies and which grades define immigration status. Literally choked by the balls. An intl student cant just decide to change and go there will be penalizations by immigration. This is something jo one thinks of. Not saying it does not affect domestic students, but they got more options. Intl students cannot work. And schools make sure to overschedule them to make sure of that.

[@yidima9891]

purr queen

[@sarahm4046]

@@Larindarr I guess I don’t understand how that works. Don’t international students still get to choose which university to attend? My original comment was referring to new students, not current students. If this university doesn’t get new students applying, it will send a strong message that there’s something wrong.

[@Larindarr]

@@sarahm4046 regardless of the university to choose international students have much less options for financial aid cannot get full scholarships, have a lot of restrictions while studying and will always pay 5X the amount compared to domestic students regardless of the school they choose. This is how the schools make money truly. By all means as well international students are new students too so it is relevant.

[@aliyahfransetteramal1887]

"We are testing to see that door would lock" that is the worst reason that I heard in my life except for my reason not to practice

[@JellyBean-jp3bh]

Yeah, my excuse could like “my toe hurts” lol 😂

[@nell__byte]

Tbh, given what I know about how my anxiety ridden brain works, I'm pretty sure your reason to not practice is far better than this security guards "explanation." And in all fairness to Brett, I actually know of legit cases of dogs eating homework. Including my adviser, who had to sheepishly inform his students once that his dog ate their homework.

[@apdavis]

I was testing to see if the gun worked, I didn’t mean to kill you!

[@i_love_to_sleep9772]

I felt a second hand embarrassment for the man lie

[@michelleen158]

Locking them in seems like a clear case of false imprisonment to me.

[@kobaltkween]

Having worked at a university, I can tell you that there's also a huge trend towards having professors who are neither tenured nor tenure track teaching courses. So the money is _not_ going to instruction. I know at the university I worked at, a news organization investigating us several years ago found that high level managers had increased their salaries by an _average_ of 45% over 3 years (it was actually higher for our top manager). These were the people who had started that period making $300 thou and more. Meanwhile, they'd been keeping all lower level salaries very low through average to poor performance reviews. And as much as the local news reported on this, nothing changed because of it. Oh, and this wasn't a private university. It was a publicly funded state university.

[@justrandomotaku]

So it was the damn administrators!! Just like how the book "bullshit jobs" wrote about. This is unacceptable

[@chocoberyl3282]

Juilliard didn't do ANYTHING about this, after all these protests and news reports? Outrageous

[@kitwillihnganz5972]

This is such a huge issue. There are public universities where teaching four courses a semester only pays $12,000 (US).

[@princessjello]

When i was in school about 10 years ago, 1 in 7 professors were adjunct. It started many years ago unfortunately :/

[@XSemperIdem5]

Yup, that's common. I went to a state school too. They also wouldn't replace staff that quit and just made the remaining staff take on the extra work. I worked with those staff as a student and saw how they kept throwing the work on others. As required, they did post a job opening on their website, but they never truly intended on even contacting an applicant.

[@ysabelledelacuesta7533]

"We didn't lock you in. We were testing to see if it were lock." Yeah, and I drink water to test if it's wet. 🤪

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8...

[@sichen3747]

“I drank bubble tea because I wanted to test if there were pearls in it.”

[@sambros2]

But water is not wet 😂 Something that can be wet can also be dry 🤔 Water makes things wet

[@sambros2]

@Yee-Yee Li but I didn’t use google I used my head 😑

[@autumn.variation]

dangerous words you said

[@dashenfelder]

Only at a music schools do you get harmony with your protest songs. 😂

[@eml5970]

Seriously…and music that is in tune.

[@masongao123]

Utterly hilarious man

[@BWGmedia]

I’ll take that over attacking others or property any day.

[@OnibiTeru]

Imagine threatening people who are singing to be understood by the place that's charging them xD '' THEIR POWER IS TOO STRONG, WE HAVE TO STOP THEM KEVIN!''

[@IndraBlackthorne]

“We were just following orders.”

[@ErikCPianoman]

This problem falls on greed and corruption at the administrative level. CU Boulder just had a similar thing happen where the Board elected an under qualified president that nobody wanted (he had ties to the Board of Trustees) who immediately gave himself an over 100% raise, and then was ousted a few years after he took the position. All while the rest of the college/faculty and students struggle. College tuition and fees have become so inflated and all that money goes to the top. I remember my professor’s door breaking and getting trapped in his studio a few times because maintenance on the building was so neglected. It’s disgusting. If nothing changes the integrity of the entire higher education system is at stake. All because the greed and dereliction of duty from of ppl at the top.

[@deanjones2525]

You're right. I couldn't believe Julliard got over a billion dollars in endowments, and they are still raising fees on their students during a pandemic, which has effected everyone financially. GREED!!!

[@gabriel_kyne]

Absolutely spot on. I'm in the CoM, are you talking about Mark Kennedy? I'd love to hear more about what happened, it sounded very very sus

[@marinaelliott8668]

I was researching CU Boulder and I was wondering why a state school was so expensive...

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

Conservative-capitalists have been waging a war against humanity since the 1960's. I lived through most of it, and watched the world around me change. In the redwood park near where I lived in the 70's, the ferns and undergrowth were so lush and full you could only ever see dirt on the trail. By 2000 that same forest floor was almost nothing but dirt and sticks. Here in Northern California we used to get 28 days of rain on average, *during the summer months alone.* Now we are very lucky if we get that in an entire year. I live a few miles from what was the largest fire in California's history in 2018, more than 400,000 acres. Next year in 2019 there was a fire about 60 miles north of me. That one burned more than 1,000,000 acres. Right now there is a fire about 250 miles east of me that has already become the second largest fire ever, moving the 2018 fire here back to 3rd place in acreage burned. This fire though wiped out at least two entire towns in the gold rush area, destroying a lot of our states history. And August here is typically just the beginning of the fire season: August to September, now it's April to November. I think we got less than two weeks of rain last winter. Conservative-capitalists have been waging a war against humanity since the 1960's.

[@aaronmontgomery2055]

@@alexleanh the red cross is evil we know this, but I can explain npr easily. So they have multiple smaller stations that they find and multiple correspondence that take a lot to maintain. Though there is still some things I find outrageous like there too executives being paid over 250k and into the 500k but at least those are cut as corporate sponsorships go down.

[@moarmygene7310]

"Now they're basically having to pay 51 000 dollars a year to learn things they could just google" *Insert clip of hoodie guys going OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! here*

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8❤️❤️❤️

[@apdavis]

nice daniel thrasher reference

[@moarmygene7310]

@@apdavis I didnt know it was a reference but cool😂

[@forbiddenfursona]

@@apdavis I thought it was supahotfire

[@marianorivera5453]

with internet, i can learn everything free why should i pay a lot to study at school which is not worth it i can take those money to invest so i can achieve financial independent at 30

[@aetre1988]

For a music school, Juilliard seems to be making some decisions that are really... tone-deaf...

[@thelambsaucee]

Looooool 😂😂😂😂

[@ortezac.5339]

You win the internet for today 😂

[@5w_08_kahangemilyko9]

LMAOOO

[@iris3292]

LMAO

[@yourpalbryan1442]

Up you go!

[@tomeifranzco7255]

Yikes, the worst part is that Juilliard decided to track down and punish students for protesting peacefully, after they have wronged them. The tuition is absolutely ridiculous! I never knew about this, but it is absolutely outrageous. I think students in Juilliard needs to consider the option of dropping out, like seriously consider. These fees are ridiculous- I understand there may be certain experiences that you can get only in Juilliard, but think about it- is that really the case? Is there an affordable option that may give similar experience and knowledge that you can choose? I know that Juilliard has a high reputation and is hard to get into, but I think the music society should understand that you had amazing abilities to get into the school even if you dropped out now due to the issue with Juilliard itself. Juilliard has failed, normally when incidents like this happen... at least a public apology is issued. Now, it may be too late for this business to recover its reputation- even if an apology is released, there has to be dramatic tuition cuts for a chance of revival. Let us all remember the joke of a business that Juilliard is, yet appreciate those who have been in it.

[@kittikat4124]

Its illegal to lock anyone in a building. Its a fire hazard. Juilliard is acting illegally in that act alone

[@-emshalinka-4773]

let’s go “test” the locks on the administration building…

[@ashcommittedarsonbutinasexyway]

@@-emshalinka-4773 I'd love to help with that

[@LocutusBorgOf]

They wanted the students to break the door

[@pamiudoff7883]

My music theory professor went to Juilliard. He said it was very overrated. The egos of the professors were so high that the atmosphere was stressful. Some professors wouldn’t talk to each other because of ego problems and would tell students to never take classes with certain people. He also said some professors were disrespectful of students’ time and were late to rehearsals because they were either arguing with another professor or thought of themselves so highly that they thought their time was more valuable than the students. My professor transferred to Peabody and experienced the same thing. It’s really unfortunate!

[@Ciaccona255]

Woooow

[@pamiudoff7883]

@Matt Karacic I went to a small liberal arts college and got an incredible music education from professors that went to a lot of prestigious schools and studied all around the world. You don’t need to go to a prestigious school to get a great music education.

[@Ciaccona255]

@Matt Karacic hi Matt how much is a yearly tuition for st. Petersburg in Russia?

[@pamiudoff7883]

@Matt Karacic I went to graduate school with someone who went to a prestigious school too. Our education was very similar. I’m sure going to a prestigious school is great if your main goal is becoming a well known soloist that wins competitions. That is not everyone’s goal, though.

[@Ciaccona255]

@Matt Karacic omg! Wow. I can only wish to go there. I always loved Russia for its structure and beauty. I'm from Croatia

[@jamchiell]

My son attends a junior conservatoire in Scotland and was given a huge discount because he couldn't physically attend because of the pandemic. The conservatoire did a brilliant job providing media and classes online. I am so grateful that the conservatoire was ethical and gave us a welcome and unexpected discount.

[@MattieMacaya]

What is the name of this Conservatoire and does it accept Americans lol 😝 asking for a friend

[@XSemperIdem5]

Not directly music related but in California universities kept trying to increase tuition during the pandemic despite how !much money they were actually saving on power, water, bathroom supplies, wear and tear, etc because students couldn't even go on campus. I wonder if students got charged for access to the health center and gym facilities too. I bet they did.

[@magnusbane420]

I checked fees for a certain university in the UK and the difference between online and physical classes were only like 3-4k (from 11k)

[@KieroSi]

@@XSemperIdem5 And yet what many fail to realize is that most of these institutions have bought said facilities and other student "perks" on "credit" (many ways akin to how govt operates towards tax payer interests, in they are as much in debt because they were purchased based on future income, how do you think they afford such things and other unis do not? Besides, it's not as if they would get financial returns if they gutted them, and students would riot just the same. Imagine a school getting rid of all the comfort perks and focusing only on instruction... students ask the institutions to make sacrtifices they, themselves, would not make because yes, they're largely entitled brats... the kind of brats that would spin out their tires that is until they are paying for them rather than their parents/guardians. This is not to say there is not gross financial issues within universities but students happily bought into that system and allowed it to become institutionalized, they are not as powerless as they desire to be seen. Seriously, name a university among the elites, ivy leagues or even just the CSU/UC system that is free of entitlement perks, frivolous comforts, design and technology. . . or tell me, it doesn't account for student's interest (rating) in said university. This is akin to someone upset they have to pay for first class because they chose to fly first class.

[@yat_ii]

royal conservatoire of scotland?

[@fatpun1948]

"Maybe that's why Curtis's musicians are better" Hilary and Ray: *Happy noises* Edit: Sumina, Lang Lang and Yuja also give out some happy noises

[@brainlin1669]

Yea free tuition is so much better

[@ajchandra7735]

Sumina :(

[@datnguyen3441]

Yea I went to their website and I saw the “why should you choose us?” section and (beside the good quality) I saw something about if you are in their institution, you never have to worry about financial issues because they always give aids.

[@khabanh6928]

Curtis 4% acceptance rate: Lemme introduce myself

[@BubblyViolin11]

Nah. They have higher quality musicians because the level of talent to even get in is astronomical. You literally need to be a prodigy to get accepted into Curtis. So yea, not paying is great, but Curtis musicians are better because they literally only accept the best of the best.

[@trtotally]

I searched Juilliard in KZbin and there are no videos from news media talking about this problem. I am grateful for Twoset for raising awareness.

[@meliathiago2522]

Finding about this from Tiktok 😭

[@heyitsjuri]

@@meliathiago2522 Same, I found out about the Juilliard issue from @maya.kilburn’s TikTok

[@Pennwisedom]

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.nytimes.com/2021/06/11/arts/music/juilliard-student-protests.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwif9ePR7ajxAhVFU98KHQe3BrMQFjACegQIDBAC&usg=AOvVaw31rvLCB-Cqj2_NWANhADcX&ampcf=1 NY times article. www.rollingstone.com/pro/features/juilliard-student-artists-protests-1183239/ Rolling Stone Article. I don't know how many videos there are, but there are lots of articles about it.

[@Ciaccona255]

Woow

[@meliathiago2522]

@@heyitsjuri Wowww! Me too...same!

[@tobazko5491]

“Paying 50k to learn things that they could just google,” sooooo most schools today??

[@kyliee8586]

Honestly, most of what is learned in school can be Googled and learned at home if someone was willing to do that. You basically just pay for a piece of paper, a name, and connections.

[@melodyseverything6999]

@@kyliee8586 - Sure, I think a lot of that can just be learned on the internet, but with playing musical instruments though, you really do need a good teacher to watch and correct your technique.

[@funkiebutch9690]

I have two views on this one. 1. I do agree most subjects now you can google or even watch on KZbin to learn but then again you need someone to guide you or someone for you ask, am i doing it correctly? If not, please tell me how to do it correctly. I had tuition with this one kid. She was a good student but she fluke out the first exam (not sure why was it the previous teacher suck or she didn't study enough). So for me, she had almost 80% foundation of the subject, it's just another 20% of applications that she couldn't do. So the whole session with her i was just guiding her how to solve question the application part. And she just got exam result few weeks ago and got A. (Her previous result was C if i was not mistaken) 2. Another thing is that, only some students (from my point of view) willing to google and study by themselves. The rest are like, too depend on classes/teacher/school to learn something. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but it's good if you try on your own to expand your knowledge. But then again, it's up to you. If you feel you can study on your own, have good discipline, and can just sit for exam, yea go for it. Some schools offer that kind of service nowadays.

[@phoebewong7894]

@@todoxx I absolutely agree with you. I once had an exam that is not in school, it would be great if I pass but it's not necessary. Our teacher just threw some pdf files about the exam to us and didn't explain anything. I tried to study it but couldn't understand it, Google doesn't help at all because I don't even know what to type into the search bar. I ended up failing the exam, I almost passed but I was guessing the answers since it's all MCs Teachers really is important......

[@yesno8785]

I think college degrees are about showing you took the time to actively study and work on improving your skills in "x" department, and it's probably easier to make connections in a more controlled environment vs out in everyday life. I myself don't really want to go to college, but that's how I view degrees.

[@yusha5728]

I think the problem is much bigger than just Juilliard, as Brett said that they(Juilliard and other educational institutions) should be looking after the young talents and students and nurturing them The problem I think is that most educational institutions have turned into (and the rest are rapidly turning into) educational businesses, with most not caring about the students' well-being: educational, mental, financial you name it. The sole focus is on making money and they know the students won't stop coming because they have the monopoly of being the best schools and even if a few students drop out there will always be more students waiting in line. Not to sound cliche but the system is literally geared against a lot of students.

[@nikkivanzanen]

Yes all of this

[@8LyJu8]

@@Tbop3 talent itself means notging without it being properly developed. And the best way for that to happen is by having highly qualified professors.

[@trumpetperson11]

Often the professors will care, since they are the ones that interact with the students. But they have no control over pricing and can often be scared to speak out in fear of losing their jobs. The ones that really don't care are the administration people. They are the ones who make way more than they deserve (in my opinion) and never actually interact with the people that they are fucking over. They couldn't give two shits about you because you are just a name on a list, and they know that another one will just replace you if you leave.

[@novemberninth4392]

True. Ever since the beginning of 12th grade I started searching up unis and realized one thing. Education is a business.

[@andno7850]

@@8LyJu8 I agree. The only way to have your talent properly developed is going to Julliard. There's no other way to do that. Every musician who didn't go to Julliard is crap. You're right in this. Julliard is the only way. :(

[@Yahbeng]

Schools before: EDUCATION AND LEARNING THATS ME Schools now: MONEY AND INVESTING THATS ME

[@nell__byte]

It all kinda began to rot away into the current situation in the 1980's with Reagan economics. The whole idea that universities should be run like private businesses is bullpucky, and I don't know any university professors who think it's a good idea. Of course, it's not a subject I've explicitly asked many about, but I've heard a couple rant about the subject in class. That's always iNTeResTiNg.

[@Catglittercrafts]

Schools especially private institutions have always been about money

[@lady_raineidv9297]

Man, for real.

[@randomplayer3826]

it hurts me to see this

[@ChickenPermissionOG]

More like schools now: Indoctrinating the young minds of today.

[@obamaobama3319]

When becoming a musician is more expensive then becoming a doctor...

[@bobakoo6232]

"we were just trying to see if the locks would work" lmao that excuse though 😂

[@abigail40]

My DoG aTe My Hw

[@Kim-vc3mv]

It's like saying : I'm not practicing to see if the case can work

[@nell__byte]

Lol yeah, you do that sort of stuff after hours when no one is actively using the building, not when there's a freaking sit-in. That's like taking a server down smack dab in the middle of the work day to do maintenance. If whomever was saying that was being 100% genuine, then I hope that tuition increase is being used to fund proper training of their security guards and on building security more broadly.

[@vangledosh]

@@Kim-vc3mv *murders someone* “hahaha sorry bro, I’m just testing to see if the gun works”

[@Kim-vc3mv]

@@vangledosh 😂

[@blibleblabloblu1166]

Props to twoset helping the musical education community!

[@booksandmusic2526]

Ikr? They're bringing awareness towards injustice happening to music uni students and I'm proud of them.

[@merry_christmas]

I also absolutely love their concluding statement on how great education does NOT equal well-known names. Don't waste an arm and a leg on some prestigious institution that does nothing for you. 💛

[@lianggi7108]

Cough cough capitalism

[@marcellgaramvari9900]

That’s pathetic! The MDW( Vienna Academy of Music and Performing Arts) is much better ( its tuition fee is around 850$/ semester)

[@lianggi7108]

@@marcellgaramvari9900 what about the fact that teachers are being paid minimum wage for teaching an important subject relating to life?

[@federicovestidello9138]

Me in France getting basically "paid" for studyin just because I'm European, honestly hearing this hurts me so bad, 50k it's like buy a house in the country and start living like a normal human being

[@EyeLean5280]

I'm a guidance counselor for musically-gifted high school students and I just sent Juilliard's admissions office an email from my personal account informing them I will be steering my juniors and seniors toward Curtis and overseas programs this year. If there are any other counselors or music teachers reading this, I encourage you to do the same this year.

[@BubblyViolin11]

You need to add other state side programs to that list if Curtis is the only other US program you're offering. The likelihood any of your students will make it to Curtis is slim to none, unless they happen to be at Chloe Chua's level. CIM, Colburn, Rice, Rochester, Rutgers, Montclair State and Manhattan School of Music are also really great programs. USC (while expensive) also has a decent program as well if your hs students are looking to perform in major orchestras.

[@blixten2928]

EyeLean5280 GOOD FOR YOU!!!

[@tromboneman4517]

Good for you. Time to stick it to Juilliard.

[@Telemed911]

I agree with Mandy's comment below and object to you seeing only one side of this story and making such a blanket decision. I would also recommend Boston Conservatory at Berklee (31% acceptance rate) and New England Conservatory of Music (~40% acceptance rate).

[@mltdwn21]

@@BubblyViolin11 You are aware pretty much all of those are as expensive if not more so than Julliard right? New England Conservatory tuition is $50k a year, Manhatten School of Music is $49k a year, Rice is $49k a year, this is in comparison to Julliard which is $47k. I understand the frustration of Julliard's cost but EVERY conservatory in the US is at that cost except Curtis. Actually EVERY program you listed other than Montclair State is as expensive if not more so than Julliard.

[@matthewmatics6928]

Having recently graduated from a highly prestigious university in the US which was ridiculously expensive, it was no where near as expensive as Juilliard. It is also worth mentioning that Franz Liszt gave all his lessons for free, because when he was taking lessons his parents couldn't afford to pay his teachers Czerny or Salieri, but they saw his talent and gave him lessons for free anyway.

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8❤️❤️❤️

[@omega1231]

To my knowledge a lot of music education before the modern era was based on beneficaries, i mean, being a composer wasn't really a high class job unless you were the court composer during that time.

[@8LyJu8]

Even today some of the best will not charge specially talented students or give insane discounts (like $2 instead of $1500 per class). There was always this system based on honoring music above else (when I had a personal situation that lead me to not being able to pay for a couple of month, I got my composition classes for free for a couple of months, and even when I started to pay again my maestro first asked if I was truly able to do so). What Julliard is doing goes against what our tradition always stood for.

[@KateNord]

I'm a vocal coach and sometimes it happens that a student can't afford my regular fee. If they display even the smallest hint that they could become professionals, I'll do everything in my power to keep them studying. That's such a shady move by some music schools to raise fees on the go, happened to me too!

[@OrontesRM]

...so, not only Salieri got his memory ruined by a stupid movie, but he was a generous person, too? Damn...

[@TheNaveOfCharlemagne]

The part about this that really gets me is that these crazy fees don't go back to the school basically at all. It doesn't go to improving campus, it doesn't go to expanding academic programs and opportunities, it doesn't go to the teaching staff. All this absurd money goes to lining the pockets of the owner types who contribute almost nothing to the education- y'know, the actual point of any school. It isn't even just the really big schools like Juilliard, either. I'm a teacher, ok, and I am sick of our education system destroying education. We get paid crap, more often than not, while our students pay these crazy fees that just disappear out of the system. It is so freaking corrupt.

[@Lyrical3127]

It’s not just Julliard, it’s American higher education in general…I literally immigrated to England just to avoid the prices. I paid £17k a year but compared to America that was cheap, somehow…

[@captaindanger13]

well technically it depends on where in America. Tuition is way cheaper in the south and middle compared to new england. New England college tuition is expensive AF.

[@DimS_LA]

@Irene cyrus same in greece everything is free but you have to earn it

[@bmona7550]

Same. I went to the Philippines to study abroad. My Mom even knows a doctor who studied in the Philippines and he’s young and happy because he has no student loans. US Colleges just ask for too much money in general

[@Lodinn]

@Irene cyrus In Russia, first university/college is free but you compete for spots, and universities compete for govt quota on them. It's a hybrid, however - you can pay to get a seat there but you're likely underperform and get booted like the rest. Quite a few essentially deal in bribes, however, but that's only really happening in business education and social sciences.

[@Da_padilla]

It does depend, I went to a CSU and paid 7k a year in tuition

[@mouse2542]

i was not robbing a bank, i was testing the bank security system and police response time.

[@MaxRamos8]

I was not creating massive debt, I gave surprise donation requirements

[@Cyberplayer5]

I'm not locking the employees in the vault, I'm just testing the combination....XD

[@scagooch]

A former co worker of mine had a laptop in his bag that he was stealing. When caught by security "i was testing security and would return it" he was fired.

[@emilyadams9986]

1. The letter was sent to all the students who were "involved or present" when the protest was happening. Does that mean that students who weren't protesting, but just happened to be in the music building for whatever reason (practicing, rehearsing, studying, grabbing something from their lockers, et cetera) got banned from the building along with the active protestors? 2. Would it be possible to circumvent the ban by moving lessons and rehearsals to another location on campus; maybe even directly outside the music building in good weather? This wouldn't technically be "teachers supporting the protest," but more like, "well, since our entire string section is banned from the building, they can't come in, but we can't rehearse without them, so let's have rehearsal outside." 3. I'm obviously outraged for everyone at Juilliard, but I'm impressed with the creative protest songs--but not surprised, because that's what happens at a campus full of artists. 4. I think, since you're lobbying for a tuition freeze, you should do a Frozen theme, with signs that say [Don't] Let it Go [Higher].

[@justremathings]

The 'locking the door' incident violates fire hazard and students should rally up and go forth with a fire hazard, attempted genocide, kidnapping...etc. lawsuit.

[@Lodinn]

About 2) - in the current situation it's all about taking sides. If your string sections is locked out and you can't rehearse without them you don't rehearse. Doing otherwise gets you fired, likely, unless the public outrage is strong enough to overtake it. That's how it *always* happens.

[@emilyadams9986]

@@Lodinn But then what happens to everyone else? Do they just get orchestra/band/chamber ensemble/choir/whatever groups the locked-out students were involved in, taken away? What about piano students who were matched up with other students as their accompanists? Some pieces are as difficult, or more difficult, for the pianist than for the soloist (here's looking at you, Brahms and Schubert), so it might not be feasible, let alone fair, to just sub in another pianist last-minute. Do all of those students just flunk their recitals because they don't have their accompanists? Juilliard really didn't think this through.

[@Lodinn]

@@emilyadams9986 Never said they did. Just seen this kind of thing happening more than once in my lifetime and it goes more or less the same way. They took an authoritarian path of "you should count yourselves lucky for being here" and "anyone who dares question whether our reputation is worth it should be made an example for the others lest we show signs of weakness and give in and lose even more profits". Every. single. time. Up next, some backhanded apology with implications they don't really deem their actions wrong baked into it, maybe some public stunt. This stance pretty much means that they don't care that the "law-obeying" students get what they paid for, rather that they get scared enough to not cause any mischief and, God forbid, refuse to pay up.

[@Nyanfood]

@@justremathings I don't think it's an attempted genocide, since genocide refers to ethnic or national groups, and the intent probably wasn't on killing them. It also isn't considered kidnapping, legally speaking, but it IS attempted unlawful detainment and reckless endangerment, as well as potential act of terrorism in that this act was meant to instill fear.

[@mrp4728]

if it gets to the point that talented and aspiring musicians can't afford to go to Juilliard and are instead going elsewhere, doesn't that mean the overall quality of Juilliard is going to go down???? I've gone online and researched it and Juilliard has said "While we recognize that the tuition increase of $1,965, to $51,230 for next year is on its face unwelcome news, we would urge you to bear in mind that Juilliard awards financial aid to 92 percent of its students", which begs the question of if they're giving awarding that much financial aid, then why not just lower the price of tuition? It'd be far less effort to just lower the price of tuition. edit: ty for all the comments explaining how financial loans work i think i’ve learn more from youtube today than in the past week

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

Well then, the talented and rich ones will be fine.

[@timotheysan3605]

Juillard got ✨✨🌟🌟 **GREEDY** 🌟🌟✨✨

[@mrp4728]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 the rich ones are always fine. They have enough money to achieve their goals. It’s the poorer ones who are just as talented but their talent is lost because schools like juilliard have decided to get greedy

[@hubhub1364]

@@mrp4728 i dont know if they do, but if julliard has need-based financial aid, like most prestigious universities, then poor families should still be able to let their kid attend. But, since this is an issue, Julliard prolly does not

[@arno_grnfld455]

@@timotheysan3605 hit a bunch of chords like bill wurtz

[@evanlucagray]

I actually got into Juilliard and got a 30'000 dollar scholarship, which meant I would have had to pay roughly 45'000 USD PER YEAR to attend the school! There's a reason 50 % of Juilliard students don't end up in the performing arts 10 years after graduation (there's a great article about this, it's called "The Juilliard effect") and student debt is a big part of it!

[@a0last0request]

This is so sad

[@hyacinthivy7479]

Congratulations on your scholarship

[@janamahlich6406]

oof, big turn of event.

[@jtf101]

Congrats on your scholarship! But yes, unfortunately as the days pass, art becomes more and more of a privilege only the rich or acquainted can perform professionally. One of my cousins in a low-income high school won a lottery Hamilton school visit and became enamored with theater, but 1. this was the first time she and other low-income students there were introduced to theater as a viable profession, and 2. it was much too late for any of them to "start." Even if they started now, they would not be able to pay for needed classes many arts require to become adept or skilled. As for my own high school many years ago, our art department was getting scraped out because we could not afford them. When I graduated, all that was left was the band, due some minor awards. Not even the orchestra that I was in was going to survive.

[@unaffiliateduser8995]

Only in America.

[@alexdeleon1463]

This is the sad truth of many, many schools in the U.S and in the world, imagine working/studying/practicing really hard just to get in and then they treat you like this!

[@doublewoosters]

Students and parents need to write their sponsors and alumni of the school. Get support from the groups that can really impact them. Oh, and trying to lock them in? Completely violating so many safety rules

[@bloviatingbeluga8553]

Laws

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

And then what?

[@sarahmaviolin]

We have widespread alum support!

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

@@sarahmaviolin Except in donations... Which is where most of the bills get paid

[@maritinooben9270]

I don't how the legal situation is in the US, but where I live it's illegal to lock people in (except for people who already committed crimes). So really not okay to do so especially in a learning environment.

[@emmetharrigan5234]

“Elite” music education is worthless. Music is music, at that point you’re paying $50000 for a network.

[@Pranav_Bhamidipati]

Isn't network everything?

[@c0ccccc]

A replaceable network costs much lower at other institutions.

[@Lucaz99]

Agree, these “Elite” universities have more reputation than actual value.

[@zomb7138]

You guys are forgetting the main reason for attending these elite institutions, for the teachers.

[@horence2360]

The institution I'm from can be considered elite and they are not by any means worthless. Granted I am not a musician, it is still a place that tells people to always look at the bigger picture, Teachers are the face of an educational institute, and how a student behaves, acts or develops, is reflecting of that. My school has a 400 to 500 years of history, and that shows with the teachers trying to compete with the predecessors that there were before them, but more than anything it gave us the students the agency to become much more than we were. Teachers don't give you the future, they show you the opportunity, that's the mark of a successful teacher. Really, anyone can teach on a professional level, but it always goes to show that it's more bearable to listen to someone who thinks what they're talking about is fun, Passion is always infectious, rightfully so if the subject you handle is on the Arts that paints a vivid imagination of the human psyche; creativity laid-bare. More than anything, being talented in something will not make you a great teacher, those are two different skillsets. And while I am a bit of a novice when it comes to creative writing itself, I can easily teach writing because it is fun, teaching people not the technicalities but the passion needed to push forward with that career. After all a teacher's job is to secure the future of not just a society, but the people before them, students are meant to surpass teachers. Teaching has always been that kind of job, and that's what I received in my institution, the five hundred years of history that could be felt from the halls itself, notable with how people carry themselves as part of that 500 year history. That for once we were a part of something big, and that at some point we'd carry on with what's been given to us by that institution. To be honest this is how things should be, teachers shouldn't just teach their students, they should also do what they can to inspire them, and to hopefully learn from students the lessons that they haven't learned. Though they are called teachers, in the end, they don't know everything in the world. That kind of humility is the most important part of being a teacher. ------------------------------------------- *I say that even though I'm not a teacher, nor have any "apprentices" when it comes to creative writing. I'm just pulling this shit out of my ass! But god damn it even though this wishful thinking is nigh-impossible it's fun as food for thought* So needless to say I don't know anything! I just felt like typing this shit out! And if it doesn't make sense then that's because I talk with my intents rather than my words!

[@Amanda-if7ey]

Higher education in the us is extremely predatory. Basically everyone I know who has a degree isn't using it, but you have to have one to get a job that pays a living wage. If you can find a school where tuition is less than 20k a year, that's cheap. My friends law degree cost her 300k on tuition alone. They charge these prices because they think they can get away with it and that no one can do anything about it, and a lot of the time they're right. I hope this gains traction and the students are able to make some change happen, this practice is ridiculous.

[@enigmah625]

That security guard really said “we’re just trying to see if the door would lock” as if they’re really thinking “ these kids are so focused on music they can’t have any room in their brains for common sense”

[@hubertyu6576]

not the security guard, the teacher guy. sec guard was just doing what he was told to.

[@joesr31]

I think he was just making up an excuse on the spot and don’t care if it make sense. He can’t say otherwise if not he would be fired.

[@BWGmedia]

@@joesr31 any evidence to prove that or are you just positing that because it suits the narrative and ‘feels right’

[@7upvids]

@@BWGmedia you ask for evidence as if they’re making a claim. They started the sentence with “I think”

[@BWGmedia]

@@7upvids 'I think' they are just positing that because of a bias lol. Did you miss that implication in my response? Or is that something that is to be assumed in everyone if you are arguing in good faith-but yes if you make objective claims like 'they were just making up an excuse' then don't put on a surprised pikachu face when someone asks you to back that up with evidence. Otherwise it shows that your position is not founded on objective reality, but rather on what you personally feel about the matter (in this case an objective charge: X did y because of Z.)

[@megumin4564]

God I love when twoset spread awareness on serious topics...

[@abigail40]

Agreed

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

Yikes

[@JabariMore]

@@algorithmicalychallenged.291 what?

[@kookieownsme6513]

@Hamza Mzali can you just stop?

[@Pennwisedom]

I'm glad they did it, cause I'm in the city and in Lincoln Center often and didn't even know this happened / is happening.

[@iris5403]

That total tuition is 4 times the amount my family makes in a year, and I have two other siblings. My working alone while attending school could not cover that, and I am sure other students are in similar boats.

[@ankurage]

"Juilliard became Jailliard" -TwoSet Violin, 2021

[@zelihasethi25]

Merch alert

[@forgottenecho2163]

@@zelihasethi25 I would buy it instantly

[@zelihasethi25]

@@forgottenecho2163 Let's hope TwoSet Apparel feel the same 😎

[@immartin_hm8686]

just for curiosity, do you know the name of the piece used at the beginning of the video?

[@ForcedHandleName]

I thought he said 'Jailyard'

[@haohao3762]

1:47 "we didn`t lock you in, we were testing to see if that door would lock" is like me when i tryna figure out an excuse to my mom asking why I`m watching youtube instead of doing my homework

[@divyap4357]

Bro, that line came as soon as I scrolled to this comment

[@onlinevhs]

Should the school be reminded that many great musicians were rebellious in nature? Beethoven would probably have joined the protest if he was a student. And this is just all bad publicity, I am very offended by Julliard's behaviour towards students.

[@sciencefictionisreal1608]

It's said that Beethoven's 5th symphony is supposed to tell the story of the French Revolution, of which Beethoven was a huge supporter. Among some leftist circles, there is a special place in people's hearts for Beethoven. Vladimir Lenin was a huge fan of Beethoven, and legend says he would sit alone in his office with his little 1920s record player that probably sounded like shit, listening to Beethoven and crying.

[@TheAtl0001]

Many great musicians didn't attend such schools. 🤣😂 Don't see many "great" ex Julliard musicians coming to their aid. Who knows Julliard graduates?? Just a handful of actors that's it.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

@@sciencefictionisreal1608 Lenin is not a good example since communism is about conformity and murdering people for not conforming. I dislike bringing up politics, but since you mentioned it, some libs call classical music racist and elitist. I think Lotus Eaters made a video on that about classical music.

[@normalperson-x7o]

@@user-gu9yq5sj7c During the hard times politics are everything.

[@mousetoad7040]

Locking in, false imprisonment, illegal...sounds like Juilliard may be riding on it's name and headed to becoming a historical memory unless there are some changes in management. There are probably dedicated teachers there who could run the place for $200,000 instead of a half a billion salary. It's a shame when a "non profit" puts profit over their student's well being. But what do I know....?

[@charlesfranks1902]

Call the fire marshal (for violating fire laws) and the police (for false imprisonment)

[@CarynPretorius]

$200000 could also help with that upkeep of the fourth floor practise rooms. Doesn't take that much to clean

[@samlevi4744]

Attempted kidnapping

[@daedalus_20v]

Young people: Minimum wage isn't enough to live on. Boomers: Well get an education so you can make more money! - F O U R Y E A R S L A T E R - Young people: This degree will only get me an entry-level position making $32k/year. Inflation has continued to rise and now I'm $100k in debt. Boomers: Buy a house!! Young people: What? Why would I b- Boomers: _Start having kids!!!!_

[@livthedream5885]

Not just boomers-many of these issues k lol and on deaf ears due to ideology. Conservatives always blame the poor for their own conditions, are always against raising minimum wage, support tax breaks for the rich, and deprive public schools of much needed funds. Lots of boomers are liberal or left, and plenty of younger people are enamored of capitalism and are adopting new conservative “values” ( ie, anti- “wokeness”🙄).

[@livthedream5885]

^^ fall on deaf ears^^

[@daedalus_20v]

@@livthedream5885 Oh yeah you're absolutely right, I agree 100%! I was more commenting on the "generation gap" in terms of being out of touch with what the economic situation is like for younger millenials and Gen-Z. My parents are both left-leaning, but they're still (often) hopelessly out of touch with what things actually cost in 2021. They paid their house off in the early 90's or whatever, so 30 years later they still think renting a 2bed/2bath apartment should cost $600/month lol. My father was able to find a decent job with no college diploma, buy a house, support the family, a cat, a dog, 2 cars, and retire at 65. The job he did for 26 years with a high school education now requires a masters degree.

[@BettyAlexandriaPride]

This is underrated. The cultural complexity of generation to generation is always interesting. Not even just boomer to millennial or millennial to gen z, but generations period. Historically, we see different cultural fluctuations. Wars, the Great Depression, etc. All shaped our culture and the generations who grew up in various times faced different challenges. Of course it makes sense that different problems require different solutions, but sometimes it's hard to reconcile that when you're the transitioning generation.

[@usererror2572]

How about not getting a useless degree that only makes $32k/yr?

[@CF_NeverForget]

So, if students can only study music if A. are wealthy or sink into depth while attending universities like Juliard or B. are extremely gifted and enter universities like Curtis, or C. don't get demotivated because of A. and B., basically in a 50 years time we'll have only some LingLings and only a few orchestras in the USA ?

[@jonathanthomas487]

Not exactly. There really are some good programs out there but there's also a lot of scams. It can definitely seem like a maze to try and find the good places that have scholarship money for your instrument but they're out there. I got a top notch undergraduate horn education at Michigan for example for really not a whole lot of money all things considered and I'm going to DePaul in the fall for another reasonably priced and great education. Chicago is an example where there's one school where you can expect to pay over $50,000 a year at one school and under $10,000 at another school for a very similar caliber teaching faculty and facility access, just one is ever so slightly fancier than another.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

In modern times, many people have the internet with lots of information and videos that teach people how to do things. I think college and school is over hyped too.

[@jacquelynmccoy7088]

new lower-level and good programs will always surface; cycle continues. Even just looking at the microcosm of my own school; there is definitely some pretension and underhandedness in the larger music department, but there are so many smaller student-led initiatives because we love music and know the importance of bringing it to the community, giving kids lessons, etc.

[@ellemw5]

I think it’s DISGUSTING how Juilliard thinks they can justify essentially robbing their students, their INCREDIBLY TALENTED students. I also think that’s it’s unbelievable that programs like these that are really hard to enter as a musician think that charging that arbitrary amount is normal. ITS ABSURD.

[@no_peace]

It's not okay to rob untalented people either

[@ellemw5]

@@no_peace That’s true as well, I’m just making a point that Juilliard has a high expectation for its students, and that people that work hard do not deserve to be used in that way

[@no_peace]

@@ellemw5 ... No one does. There's no qualifying it

[@ellemw5]

@@no_peace I know, I’m agreeing with you. This is just another situation that large companies believe they can excuse because they are well known. I 100% agree with you.

[@algorithmicalychallenged.291]

The school pays 92%of the bills. What greed? How much do you think it costs for one person to live in NYC amd have 20 teachers with over 30 years of experience? About 240k.

[@girlwithoutpearlearring]

I'm so glad, I'm studying in Germany at a university that is not private (I don't study music but anyway). I pay about 300€ per semester which means 600€ per year and that's it! And my student identity passport even gives me free public transport within my Bundesland. What the heck is going on overseas? That needs to stop! Education for everybody. It is a terrible crime to give people the choice to either get no superior education or to be in debt for the rest of their lives!!! Edit: Damn, I never started such a discussion! :'D

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8🎹🎹🎹

[@StarSeeker1]

AMEN

[@carinag.5374]

Gotta love good old Germany. I know why I'm staying here for university! 😅

[@thomasesplin1243]

Education is a right lol

[@Marquitte23]

Wo studierst du denn? :)

[@beo456]

You have the right to protest. You don't have the right to protest on private property if they do not allow it. Normally you may protest in the University's free speech zone. You may not be locked in a building against your will, this is false imprisonment. Whomever gave that order will be fired. Whomever attempted to follow that order will be arrested on attempted false imprisonment. You literally caught the university with their pants down. Use that leverage.

[@catwiesel_81]

they were just checking to see if the lock is working. I did not give this order. did you? no? no one gave that order. this minimum wage peon, oh sorry, custodial security person is lying. also, he was just checking the lock...

[@theblondeone8426]

yes but as a nurse I can tell you that locking someone in their building is considered a “restraint” which would be illegal in this situation - also would be a huge fire hazzard.

[@johannhowitzer]

So what the university should have done is told the students the building is closed and they have to leave, and then if they refused, called the police and had the students arrested for trespassing and/or loitering.

[@nicolasmogensen8727]

You are unaware of some caveats here. If they are on private property and have been told to leave because doors will be locked (as in "We're closed") you do NOT have the same rights. The institution will only get in real trouble if they thereupon refuse to unlock a door when a student wants out, but even then they have a legal argument-a weak one- that you are being detained citizens arrest style. It's a legal quagmire for either party though.

[@imjustdandy9799]

I’m actually tearing up. Higher education is so messed up here, particularly in the arts. These institutions prey on your sense of community but they only care about your money. And as someone who works at a nonprofit, the fact they they get to call themselves that while the director makes an irresponsible amount of money and they treat their students like that is disgusting. I’m disgusted.

[@chamallow989]

Don’t worry, it’s messed up everywhere. I am French and I’m at a point where I would rather die than go back to college, because in France, teachers have this habit of giving bad grades just because they find it funny. They make impossible tests that are graded out of 20 but really, if you get 3 points you have the best grade in your class. I would litteraly move it abroad if I could find a place where things work differently

[@123clash5]

Not to mention within 3-5 years nearly all those kids will pivot away from the arts and into a different field.

[@lo-filogic]

@@chamallow989 That sounds like a load of bullcrap.

[@chamallow989]

@@lo-filogic Go try it yourself then. Then come back and say that again.

[@lo-filogic]

@@chamallow989 I don't know how (badly) the education system works in France, but there is usually a minimum for the amount of failing/passing grades you're allowed to pass out. If it differs too much from the norm, your school will be investigated. I don't like schools, but this sounds like a heavy dose of copium.

[@the_octord]

I was a part of the protest! I take classes close to Julliard and for the first protest I stood outside and chanted with them!

[@timtellnolie1315]

👏👏👏

[@shawndaly2693]

I'm a graduate of the Cincinnati Conservatory. It's an amazing institution with fine teachers and beautiful facilities. Plus, they have a great deal of scholarship help for deserving students. I completed my doctorate tuition free. I'm sure it's still possible to get a good education at Juilliard, but it really is just a name.

[@yecly]

I think it's just not the name but the program and the impact after graduation as well. In working industry, having SOLID, STRONG, CONNECTION is important. You don't just study for fun. You need the qualifications and the benefits that comes with it. Possibly earning as much as you can from it. That is why big brands can still stand till today. It is PURELY business.

[@lunacyandpirates]

It does seem like they're charging for the name rather than the education. And Juilliard is not the only one doing it. Education should be an investiment from society not the thing that makes you homeless and unable to achieve your dreams.

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8...

[@nell__byte]

It's like charging more for a brand name perfume or makeup, even thought the ingredients are no different than from most drugstore equivalents. You're charging more for the brand name than for the actual cost of the product.

[@mizravenkustoms]

These days even state schools are robbing students. It’s insane. I was going to go to graduate school but forget it. I’ll just keep on getting sax lessons from my teacher and playing with bands. I’ll learn just as much.

[@Pranav_Bhamidipati]

@anya aliffa Except, Harvard has need-based scholarships. If you can't afford, they'll pay for you.

[@twokool4skool129]

That's exactly what they're doing because Julliard's never been about music education. You can get that at any music school in the country. They're about a prestige brand which has always been super expensive to attend. I pity anyone naive and ignorant enough to be surprised that tuition there is expensive. If all they want is quality music education, they should drop out of Julliard and transfer their credits to the nearest state college. They'll get the same education and save a ton of money. But of course then they won't be able to say they went to the super expensive and "world renown" Julliard.

[@oliviam5189]

it’s not even just Juilliard, it’s the entire American education system Edit bc ppl cant understand underlying elaboration: ok, obv it’s not the literal whole American university system, but it’s the majority enough to point out that there’s a big issue with how they’ve been structured to withdraw as much money as possible from students. Yes, one can obtain a scholarship but not often does a school just hand out full rides or ones that pay for the majority of the cost for many students. We also must take into account the societal pressures to pursue uni (especially the more costly or prestigious ones), most specifically in the USA. We are gradually moving away from that “one must go to college or be nothing with no job” but it’s still very prevalent within the usa’s societal standards and mindset. Thus, many young adults are pressured to pursue college right out of high school regardless of the financial stability or lack thereof

[@the.muffin]

Yep :/

[@annacollins501]

😔 true

[@Laya-Rose]

IKR. It always buffels me hearing those numbers 30k, 40k, 50k per year. This is insane!

[@Telemed911]

It is not the entire American educational system. Public schools are essentially free, except that local landowners have to support them through taxes and some have additional taxes. And, both Coursera and Edx originated here in the U.S., and these online classes are free. For example, Gary Burton at Berklee taught his great class on jazz theory online for free. It is U.S. "higher education system", with the exception of excellent community colleges, that are tremendously over-priced. If all students are pushed to attend university then there is no choice - but not everyone should attend a university - so either do not whine about college debt, obtain a fellowship to attend for free, or boycott the expensive universities.

[@daulahiftitah6461]

@@Telemed911 dude, if going to uni abroad is still cheaper and/or less complicated (bureaucracy wise and shiz), I don't think it's even worth going to uni in the states

[@bloodink9508]

"Just following orders" is the cry of cowards. People just following orders need to be held accountable as well.

[@jananias2985]

I hate it when universities/educational institutions function as a brand/business. It's supposed to be about educating and nurturing academics to-be (or new musicians, here) and improving existing knowledge of the fields. It's terrible that so many young and talented and hardworking musicians are put off by these prohibitively expensive tuition fees. Where I'm from, I could get 5 Carnatic violin lessons per week for less than $30 (₹2000 in local currency) a year (it was a government music college that catered to students that were complete beginners to fairly advanced-levels). While this was in a fairly middle-class area of the city (meaning students from poorer areas didn't have the same access - a lot of my class was very middle class), I found that genuinely amazing. (btw, we learnt as a group, not 1 to 1, but we did have opportunity for it.) While India is also currently going through a phase of reduced funding towards public education (esp. public arts education), it makes me feel nice that some of the infrastructure is already there, and we just have to improve upon it and build a lot more. A lot of amazing musicians I know attended those colleges, showing their positive effect. More power to the Julliard students, I know the lot of you are amazing musicians, and deserve fair tuition and boarding fee structures.

[@c0ccccc]

Yes, Julliard should refer themselves as a dodgy shop instead of a "school", if they are doing the opposite of helping musical students empower themselves in pursuing music. Stop branding themselves as a "school" that takes up moral responsibility of nourishing young generations.

[@azuroslazuli6948]

@@c0ccccc Oh, but if they did that, then they couldn't justify charging outlandish rates to brainwash people to only think in a certain way! The schools deserve to be defunded at this point. They're nothing but brainwashing hubs, not even teaching basic skills anymore.

[@kestrel3509]

Sadly India is simply isn't even in the list for good music uni, even A.R. rehman uni is not listed. Another problem is they still study Indian classical theory (also western) but the quality is just simply isn't good enough. The repertoire of Piano is really big for Indian teachers to teach as they still have a lot of influence from Indian classical music, even though European classical music is on the another league. India is just not the right countries (I'm Indian and searched a lot of Unis for myself and talked to experts.)

[@jananias2985]

@@kestrel3509 yeah no, we're lacking in western music schools and stuff, and western music teachers are rare and really expensive. but for indian classical styles, there are at least some efforts make it affordable and quality. they obviously aren't enough, but it's something we can build upon.

[@ArtiHoney]

The clip of the students singing made me realise that musicians are the worst people to have protest against you cause they will just come up with the most FIRE protest songs and chants that can get everyone going. That was so clever of the students!

[@sttommore]

And not sound like a mob doing it. That was the best sounding protest I've ever heard.

[@AtheistReligionIsCancer]

@@sttommore It's almost like these musicians are reasonable human beings with brains, isn't it? No rioting? No loothing? No violence? Just peaceful protesting? Singing their protest? Maybe some... "certain people"... could learn from that.

[@emily_nelson]

I mean, in this case, that song is 200 years old and the students didn't have anything to do with its creation. But in general, I agree with you. 😄

[@katharineshade9550]

What other group of protestors would sing in harmony?!

[@FromMyXP]

​@@AtheistReligionIsCancer Let's not compare early stage protests about rising cost of tuition in an already costly school, and protests about police abuses (which were mostly peaceful too and yet still met by even more police violence from the start) that were also preceded by decades of marches and other type of peaceful protests (which were also ignored and/or directly repressed anyway). To be clear, the students are getting done over by the school and are absolutely right, but that's not the same class of problem. Like regular flu vs cholera.

[@Benwut]

Yeah, the whole good teachers having a fair price thing is true. I take 1 hour singing lessons twice a week with a teacher that had me going from singing Bottany Bay to Erlkönig in only 2 years, and had me doing grade 8 AMEB by the time I was 15. Her price? 120 AUD an hour.

[@kookieownsme6513]

Julliard: *increases tuition fee in admist of a pandemic where the income of people, basically the whole country, dropped* Student: *gets upset and protest* Julliard: *surprised pikachu face*

[@authoreyes101]

You should brainwash them!

[@xiangyuchen7256]

it's obviously the fault of inflation

[@OddMeterMusic]

We need socialized education. Fuck private education.

[@EadaoinD]

As if music students wouldn't be broke enough already... tuition is TOO expensive.

[@nell__byte]

I'm wondering if music school tuition is part of the basis of the broke musician stereotype.

[@MrScooterland]

I see a way out for all of those people! If they do not believe the education you are receiving is worth what you are paying for it, leave! Juliard is a business. If the people paying their bills all leave they will either have to lower their prices or go bankrupt.

[@shirley_grace]

This is not just a Julliard School issue. These price hikes are happening for all of higher education. I definitely think it is more egregious at Julliard, since it can be arugued that quality of education for current students who object to the price hikes is intentionally being thwarted due to their stance.

[@shirley_grace]

@Joseph Chambers You are correct - it's definitely a bigger issue in the United States (admittedly Anerican here) than in other countries, where higher education is tuition-free. Then you have the other problem in the States where if you declare bankruptcy, most debts owed can get some semblance of relief in repayment. One of the biggest exceptions is student loans, which get interest compounded on existing debt, even if you declare bankruptcy.

[@linmax300]

To anyone aspiring to attend Juilliard, make sure you want to go there for the right reasons. Other conservatories could provide just as good of an education-it’s just the fact that Juilliard has a name to itself. I’ve been studying under Juilliard faculty and some teachers who are Juilliard alumni as a hs student recently (which is obviously cheaper than paying to attend the uni) but my education from those teachers is just as amazing as anyone else who comes from a long/deep musical background! For example, my hs ap music theory teacher has a solid understanding of music theory as good as a Juilliard prof I’m currently studying from. And even though they come from different musical and educational backgrounds, they both love music equally and want to teach it to students! ❤️👏

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8..

[@melodyseverything6999]

I agree. Students should also consider other high quality conservatories. Juillard is only one option. If you look at all the musicians who are successful, not ALL of them came from Juillard. As a matter of fact, not even most.

[@cherwynambuter7873]

This reminds me of Steinway's reputational reign over piano makers because of a fabulous marketing dept., when Blüthner, Mason & Hamlin, Bösendorfer, Fazioli, Steingraeber, and others are completely the equals of Steinway but are barely known among non-musicians!

[@melodyseverything6999]

@Matt Karacic - Did you play the other brands though? Just saying you played the one brand doesn't give you the ability to compare and know for sure if it's the best.

[@cherwynambuter7873]

@Matt Karacic They are good, but by no means are they the "best". I'm a professional accompanist, and as such, I play on pianos in all sorts of venues. I've played modern Steinways, old restored Steinways, Boesendorfers, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Kawai, Yamaha, Chickering, Schimmel, and I own a 7.5-foot 1908 Bechstein, of which is it written: "In 1885 Bechstein had grown and opened a store in London and the allure of the manufacturer was massively enhanced when Queen Victoria bought a gilded Beckstein grand...Many other stars and artists have been supporters of the brand including the Beatles, Elton John and Freddy Mercury. Claude Debussey said 'One should only write piano music for Bechstein'." and of course I've played many inferior makes as well. Here is what a professional piano reviewer states regarding the new Bechstein piano counterpart to the Steinway "B", the Steinway most commonly found in the homes of concert pianists: "...when you sit down at a B 212 [Bechstein] and you play a single note, the most uncanny thing happens. And it’s the first piano I’ve ever had this happen to and it was shocking the first time I heard it. As you play the note, there’s actually a bloom to the note for about a quarter to a half-second. The sound actually grows a little bit as that sound and that energy dissipates throughout the whole structure of the instrument. It’s like the instrument is just sitting there primed, waiting for the tiniest little bit of energy to be sent through the strings, and then the whole thing just comes alive. And you’re getting more back from the instrument than you’re putting in, which is such a satisfying, exciting thing as a musician. "Very few instruments will give that to you regardless of whether you’re talking about piano, or drums, or violin. But I do think that some string players can relate to this, a really great violin or a really great cello has this amazing bloom to the tone as well. So, that’s all we’re going to talk about in terms of the C. Bechstein concert grand piano for now. " There's a video comparing the Steinway B and this Bechstein. I invite you to listen for yourself. Concert pianists know there are many, many pianos out there every bit as good as a Steinway. We regard this as one of the music world's best-kept secrets. Each individual piano is unique and different. You'll find some less-than-fantastic pianos in each company and some spectacular pianos in many of the top companies. However, modern Steinways just simply are not as well-regarded as those of Steinway's "Golden Era", prior to 1930. Bechstein was actually head-to-head in competition with Steinway for a reputation as the world's best piano until it became known after WW2 that the Bechstein family were among the most generous financial supporters of the Nazi party and very close friends of Hitler. Otherwise, you might just be saying to me that Bechstein is the best piano maker and nothing else can compare! But I would still argue there are many pianos within many makes that could be considered "the best piano" and it's all unique to the individual piano - but quite a few makers out there do as well as Steinway. The primary reason most concert pianists in the U.S. procure Steinways for their homes is this is what is used on most of the U.S. stages and we want the transference to the instrument on which we'll be performing. This is why I'm going to be shopping for a Steinway soon. My Bechstein is highly responsive with little weight dropped into the key, so the Steinways' heavier touchweight gives my fingers more of a workout than they're accustomed to. I need to switch, much as I regret saying "Goodbye" to my beloved Bechstein! I hope this helps!

[@ethandorrian8779]

I'm a classical guitarist and I paid 26 euros for my final year of studies in Spain, forget the U.S and their dry musical education, go to Europe, wear a mask and have face to face lessons for the price of lunch

[@J.R.Swish1]

"Yeah officer, I didn't really mean to shoot that guy, I was just checking if my gun was working. So I'm free to go, right?"

[@ViolinistSlay]

“We-we were testing to see if the door would lock 🔐.” Sounds like they think the students have no brain.

[@mnurkose7316]

Sounds like THEY have no brain

[@brendalam9510]

Lol imagine if he said that to a debate club, he’d get roasted so hard

[@brendalam9510]

Shows that little kids and adults lie the same way when they get caught 🤪

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8❤️❤️

[@KaySan666]

sounds like they were told what to do and weren't told a reason for it. personally i will never fault a "lower" employee that they do their job. especially not in present times where many are looking for new jobs. i would venture a guess that they'd also be appalled at the fees if they knew (assuming that they don't)

[@chrisdohertybass]

Man i live in the UK and my music degree was £3k a year. Paid £6k for my masters. Even if the standard of teaching was way waay better, you could never convince me in a million years that US universities are worth the tuition fees.

[@sarasate89]

Tuition fees in England are now at about £9600 per year. As far as I know, for Welsh and Scottish residents uni is still free!

[@okok72277]

@@sarasate89 In Scotland you have to have been resident for 3 years prior to your first year of uni

[@julietantonio1049]

As the granddaughter of a retired fire fighter, them being locked in that building REALLY set me off. That is a fire hazard and a half, and if there WAS a fire, they would've all been SCREWED.

[@emilymantone4309]

The doors actually don’t lock from the outside for that exact reason

[@annettenelson5321]

Yes, especially if the prof dropped over dead....nobody to free the students! That professor or whatever his job title was should have been fired immediately!

[@MeetMozart]

This is definitely an extreme example of a larger issue in the music world where institutions are taking financial advantage of young musicians. Opera singers have been complaining for years about Young Artist Programs that charge application fees and don’t even have you audition, or pay to sings that charge thousands and offer little to no experience or educational value. It is time we stop accepting these things as par for the course, but the only way to stop it is for everyone to decide to stop paying for it…and that’s very unlikely.

[@Ciaccona255]

Absolutely agree 👍

[@jacksonhoward740]

100% agree

[@Larindarr]

I have a dream to destroy this model. And make a musical education that involves ALL areas of studies through music. And make it accessible. This post gave me strength when things have been tough and was about to give up. THANK YOU.

[@HullzOSRS]

I wasn't trying to drown you, I was just filling the room with water.

[@nicoleoliveira1502]

it's dissapointing (but unfortunatelly not a surprise) that julliard is still perpetuating inaccessibility and exclusion in music. for an institution with so influence they could be doing so much for music and young musicians who are trying so hard to success, but i guess keeping up w the status quo comes first... glad that twoset is talking about this!!

[@katanrocksketches6717]

"Is Julliard a bit perhaps overhyped right now and overcharging premium prices for that? Maybe" The answer is yes. And Julliard isn't the only large big name school that charges insanely for the name. Think of all the Ivy league schools, big name US private schools. These schools average around $70,000 a year. The most expensive I know of is UChicago, where in total, it costs around $100,000 every year now (edit: my bad it’s only projected to be the first school to cost this much, but hasn’t made it yet. But it’s quickly rising to this point). That was back for the class of 2020. Nowadays in the US, going to university can cost almost as much as getting a fucking house in many places. It's insane how expensive it is, and how little aid is offered. Students have been struggling for years to pay for college and I think a lot of us in the US are extremely envious of people who live in other places that only have to pay $5,000 to $10,000 for a good college. No one is spared from this, not even people who have supposedly good paying jobs like doctors. Doctors have to pay off loans from undergrad, medical school, and residency because for around 10 years, they don't have a good stream of income to pay for these extremely expensive programs. The more you hear about university in the US, the worse it gets.

[@BubblyViolin11]

Which is exactly why there's a doctor and nurse shortage that Covid only exacerbated. There's a massive teacher shortage too (that Covid also exacerbated) for the same reason. These issues have been brewing for decades. If our government doesn't do something about it soon, both of these essential industries are going to fall, and they'll fall hard.

[@ranainsana]

Uc isn’t 100k a year…

[@ernestomm1995]

Come to Italy. We may not have the most flashy programmes, but we surely we don't overcharge them (Stay away from the private ones)

[@CodyHazelleMusic]

@@BubblyViolin11 we're in this mess because the government has been "doing something about it" for decades... Like essentially subsidizing all university tuition with grants and loans, leaving the universities to charge whatever they want. There's a reason university intuition has risen far higher than even medical inflation which is already higher than regular inflation. They get infinite money. If the government "does something" it will only get worse. All we can do is avoid universities, educate ourselves and get jobs that way. Or go to trade schools. We still need plumbers and welders and they get good salaries.

[@h5mind373]

"Sell the sizzle, not the steak".

[@ValeiGood]

Can we just appreciate the fact that Brett and Eddy were trying their best to use words that won't insult anyone in a way but just point out the stuff that doesn't make any sense

[@pearl2844]

This problem definitely goes way beyond Juilliard and to the whole higher education system as well. Ive recently been doing papers on different organizations, namely College Board and prestigious colleges that are essentially just extorting money from students who really just want to gain a good education. What's the point making students pay almost $100 per AP exam, SAT and subject test, not including the full score results and sending scores when the company itself (which is a nonforprofit on the same level as the Red Cross) is making over a billion dollars in revenue a year

[@gallifreyanchocolate6058]

Yeah. I've been starting to question the College Board, but I also don't want to stop taking those classes and exams because I don't want colleges to see me as laxy or unmotivated. The teachers for these classes are amazing in my experience, but an exam on one subject shouldn't cost that much, particularly if they deteriorate the health and wellbeing of students. My AP English teacher the day before the AP exam broke into tears when reminding us that tests don't determine the value of a student. I'm planning to go to a state university rather than a more competitive university: my desire to be competitive is fueled by wanting to avoid student debt (by earning as many scholarships and grants as possible so I reduce the potential need to take out loans). However, I have friends planning to go to higher universities and I can't even imagine the pressure they feel to have a failed AP exam affect their chances of even being accepted.

[@pearl2844]

@@gallifreyanchocolate6058 I totally get you since I'm in the same boat. The sats, subject tests and ap tests are huge factors in your college application, and college board knows this. Thing is they can jack the prices however they want since they have a monopoly on the industry. The AP teachers, at least all of mine, know this as well, and it's frustrating because nobody can really do much about it. It does help that many college have been going test optional, even before the pandemic, but still that just makes the process more dependent on AP scores, which, especially at this time, are difficult to take, particularly if you go to a small rural public school like I do and the only option for you to get the test is to take it online, where College Board as set up an unreasonably scheduled and structured test to stop "cheating"

[@liyuan492]

Just looked up my own school and realize there's been a steady increase of a couple thousand dollars every year...

[@charlesfranks1902]

@@liyuan492 When they say they need to raise the tuition because of "inflation" and the increase is far above what inflation is, you have to question it.

[@samikay626]

I was told when taking ap classes “If you don’t take the tests, it’s not worth it” I figured out by the end of sophomore year, fuck that. I’d rather take advantage of my state’s scholarship opportunities without the tests, and go to community college for my Gen Ed’s.

[@starlightjinx]

"Juilliard became a jail yard" 🤯 that was a good one lmao 🤣

[@Sunny-tl4yl]

I'm so sick and tired of hearing about institutions and colleges that take advantage of their students.

[@Dmichoacan]

unfortunately this is a part of a larger trend in higher education throughout the US. I go to a university that is on par with the Ivy League schools. the costs are astronomical, and almost all of my classes are taught by graduate student who are barely being paid. They were great teachers, but if they aren’t being paid well where the hell are all the ***multi-billion*** dollars from their endowment going towards?

[@kirsten0233]

They only care about research, not teaching quality. Tenure goes to the profs that bring in the most grant $$$, if they're also good educators that's just an incidental bonus. Many don't teach undergrad classes at all as you pointed out.

[@YCt37689]

Exactly, the whole FBI bust "Varsity Blues" also really opened my eyes. It becomes about the wealth of your family to get in and not about actual talent. Education shouldn't be something only offered to the elite and super wealthy!!!

[@Dmichoacan]

@@kirsten0233 yeah it's effed up. My school got a $8.6 billion endowment for 2020 and the university president has a salary of nearly $6 million. 🤷

[@Dmichoacan]

@@YCt37689 my school's economics department helped legitimize the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile

[@paris5410]

@@Dmichoacan Woop, what school was that?

[@anodein82]

Half the American population never make $80,000 a year in their lives. So to have that cost for one year in university is insane.

On my way to Boston Conservatory this year! They gave me a generous scholarship, were much nicer in my audition than Juilliard, and have worked with me to make sure my financial needs are met, especially with the struggles of Covid and my own personal struggles. There are many great schools aside from Juilliard, and I would encourage everyone to not get caught up in arbitrary prestige when pursuing what do you is probably a lifelong passion 💜 Go to a place that expresses first and foremost that they love you and support you and your art, above anything. Prestige is important, but it should not be number one on your priority list.

[@leSomeone]

Huge thank you to TwoSet for shining a light on this issue.

[@Ciaccona255]

Yes very hard video to watch being a musician myself but much needed indeed

[@kevinchin3848]

US has a social issue with college runs like a corporation and systematically keeping students paying college loan as long as possible, even after graduation and knowing the average salary would not keep up with the the loan repayment. No corporation is afraid of student protests who is in debt to them.

[@Ciaccona255]

They might not be afraid but something will change for sure. There are so many students that have gone there and have serious stories to tell. If they decide to talk about it on TV than we are going to have a show.

[@a.a.2573]

Wow, as an Argentinian I'm really grateful for having public universities, and actually, they're better than the private ones. Massive respect from a student to students.

[@isabellabignasca5058]

Hi, as a current Juilliard student I really want to add that although we certainly are having these frustrations with our flawed administration, my experiences with the students, the faculty and the community have been nothing short of amazing. For the most part, the students and faculty have been so insanely supportive and talented, more so than any other musical institution I’ve been to. Just felt the need to include this because it’s really important to understand that there is a distinction between the dedicated people who make the school what it is and the system that sometimes doesn’t do that justice.

[@katharineshade9550]

That's great to hear.

[@nell__byte]

Thanks for chiming in. All my best to you and your classmates and professors. It sounds like you're all going through a pretty tough time right now.

[@Larindarr]

well, this is the problem. Music in itself is amazing. The music business is not. And it is reflective of this. Because sadly they are both businesses and that is the core.

[@JayAuditions]

👏👏👏

[@lukeseguin1875]

Honestly curious, if you don't want to answer that's okay, how are you paying for the school? I went to music school at Rutgers and noticed that some students had very different experiences than others. Those who had family's helping with tuition lived completely different lives from those who didn't. Just curious no judgement, would have loved to have afforded Juilliard just couldn't, didn't apply cause there was no way imaginable to pay for it.

[@maskedgamer1920]

To any aspiring music student: you don’t have to go to the best conservatories to be the best musician you can be. No matter if you go to Juilliard, Curtis, Manhattan School of Music, Colburn, Rutgers, Montclair State, Frost, Rice, Rochester, or literally any other school, as long as you like your teacher and you are willing to learn and work hard, you will automatically put yourself in a better position than any student who goes to a school just because the institution has a name to itself.

[@parkergarvin]

Hehe - I went to both Montclair State AND Manhattan School of Music!

[@meliathiago2522]

Agree💯% what a great comment! Thanks 💙💙

[@maskedgamer1920]

@Matt Karacic That’s literally not what I said. Also there is no “best conservatory” because people have different ideals of what is the right conservatory environment for them.

[@tmcleung]

OR, don't even go to music school. Do well in school, get into a good school studying a STEM degree, gain some actual employable skills. Keep music as a hobby.

[@asalj4014]

@@tmcleung Or dont tell people what to do!

[@zg4705]

I'm extremely happy having turned down Juillard and instead going to Milan Conservatory to pursue opera. I save around 50.000 euro a semester, and the atmosphere is amazing. The few friends I have at Julliard all say its overhyped.

[@Tribdinosaur]

You guys really are incredible musicians because you're not just about performing. From the videos about taking breaks, dark secrets of the violin industry, mental health, stopping Asian hate, and now about fairness and protection towards students-- you care about musicians too.

[@Ch3k0v]

What Eddie said about knowing the difference between a good education and just a school with a good reputation is so true, not just for music schools, but schools in general. So many people here in the USA worry about making it into ivy league schools when there are so many state schools and community colleges that provide amazing educations without taking all of your money. But of course people sadly believe that ivy league schools are the best simply because of the prestige attached to their names. Ivy league schools are more of a status symbol than anything. It's like wearing Supreme clothing. All the money might be a waste, but at least people will think you're important. Not saying you can't get a good education at ivy league schools, but people also put way too much trust in them to the point that they're heartbroken if they don't get into one.

[@wentkat]

To your point, there are many state colleges/universities with very good/solid national and international ratings and some are considered tops in particular fields of study.

[@BubblyViolin11]

I'd somewhat agree. It really depends on what field you're in. The benefit ivy leagues provide isn't just a quality education, it's a NETWORK. And depending on what field you go into, that can be worth almost more than the education itself. For music? Maybe not so much. But if you're in finance, law, research, higher ed, etc. Those networks are priceless. But if you're wanting a college ed to get a decent job to do what you love, then no, don't bother with the expensive private schools.

[@Ch3k0v]

@@BubblyViolin11 fair point

[@raesong926]

This this this this this.

[@slbaaron]

​@@BubblyViolin11 Yup +1, even for the most well known low-barrier-of-entry, high paying jobs of software engineering, the network effect can still be real. It's one thing when you studied hard on your own and get a FAANG job after sweat and tears and trying to enter a whole new world. It's another when I have 3+ *dozens* of people I can call up at any point in time should I want to switch job to give me a warm reference and set me up for interviews. Just about everyone I know from college is working at top tier tech companies. Not saying everyone, or even many in my college did, but it's easy to find more ambitious and like minded people in a (relatively) top tier, larger sized college than at smaller, less prestigious ones. It was easy for me to find the 20+ people that are my closest network now by *naturally being friends*, rather than trying hard to network by going to events or w.e if you are in a no name college. In fact, I used to be on track to be a bum, but a friend literally dragged me into my now 6 figure jobs by telling me that I can easily do it too and showed me the path step by step. That's half the reason to go to college IMO.

[@San-lh8us]

this is how juilliard is gonna get their own demise, more and more people are gonna realize it's not worth it and drop it, and then i imagine they will increase even more the tuitions, and then even more people are gonna abandon it.

[@a.harrispoems2738]

I went to a drama school for university. It wasn’t quite on the same level as Juilliard but it was a prestigious one. I thought it was an achievement to get in- I didn’t consider that the majority of students don’t go on to become actors. It was good times when I was there and I got a healthy understanding of a subject I really enjoy. But ultimately it was a waste of time and looking back on it, I really think that they feed people’s delusions in order to get tuition.

[@tiny5663]

Did you ever get in acting?

[@TheCachinnate]

Hey man, just wanted to say a couple of things after reading your comment: 1. You got into a good university for a subject you loved, and you had a good time. I'm assuming you got your qualification? If so, that definitely is an achievement, and one you can be proud of. 2. I do, however, completely agree with you on it being a waste of time. Does anyone really need a degree in drama, or music, or anything of that ilk? One of the major problems with universities now is that they seem to offer a course for everything, and as you said, they play on people's delusions to get that money (in many cases courtesy of the tax payer). This isn't to say that getting a degree in drama isn't an achievement, it certainly is, but is it really the same as getting a degree in business, or engineering? Probably not.

[@TheCachinnate]

@@amazingdanna no, your biases have nothing to do with this. If you can't see that an engineering degree is more valuable than a music degree, then I don't know what to tell you. Being able to design bridges that don't fall down Vs writing a piece of music? Or being an entrepreneur that creates dozens of jobs Vs performing on stage? We all know which of those is more important in the real world.

[@melodyseverything6999]

@@amazingdanna - Yeah, but in the grand scheme of things, a medical degree leads to a more useful and beneficial career that helps and saves people who are sick and injured. Or a business degree for a corporate career in which jobs are generated. Music degree? Not so much. And you don't need that degree to actually play or produce music that makes people happy. Most successful musicians don't have music degrees.

[@melodyseverything6999]

@@amazingdanna - In terms of equal value, you have to pair similar careers. Engineers have specialized training and intelligence that create the designs to be built and they themselves know how to build. The construction worker on the other hand aren't required such a high degree of training and intelligence. They just learn skills and techniques for building, but they don't know the first thing about designing a structure. So engineers are given higher value - they get paid more and are less likely to be laid off. Whereas, construction builders have less value - are paid less, and more likely to be laid off and replaceable. So no, the engineer and construction worker are not equal in value.

[@qthc17]

protest by singing in the street, damn that's music school af

[@blueThumbnail]

DO YOU HEAR THE PEOPLE SING?

[@qthc17]

@@blueThumbnail u dont?

[@eugeniaampofo5049]

@@blueThumbnail SINGING THE SONGS OF ANGRY MEN

[@twokool4skool129]

Other than getting in some good practice, kind of pointless tbh. Tuition inflation has been a huge problem for the last several decades that most schools, that no one's been able to address. A scruffy guy in t-shirt singing 'We Shall Not Be Moved' on a busy city street corner in the middle of summer is not going to change that.

[@vanadium8865]

@@twokool4skool129 One can certainly try tho

[@dacksonflux]

At the end of the day, it's about what schools get you a job when you graduate. Julliard may be famous, but plenty of prestigious schools are just as effective on resumes.

[@isi__1]

Holy shit! I've heard so many people talk about the ridiculously high tuition fees in the US but, for some reason, this still manages to shock me every single time. I'll be going to a university in Germany, starting this fall. I will have to pay a semester fee of 142€ (~ 170 USD). That's 340 USD a year! Granted, the fee varies from uni to uni and this isn't a private school - but most people go to public unis anyway so I don't think it matters that much. Furthermore, a semester ticket for public transport is included in the semester fee. I can use that ticket for all public transport in the city and the areas surrounding it as much as I want, without having to pay an additional price. 50 000 a year is just pure insanity! Who can possibly afford that? Education shouldn't be this expensive!

[@paris5410]

I’m applying to Freiburg University, the tuition fees are free.

[@rjlchristie]

USA is enjoying the fruits of its Milton Friedman engineered neoliberal free market capitalist economy. It gets no sympathy from me.

[@MayaRavichandran]

@@rjlchristie couldn’t you blame the high cost of education on government loans/subsidies? If it were truly market based the price would be lower so people could actually afford it

[@antonioloma2327]

@@MayaRavichandran Well, if you read the OP, you'd realize that outside US there have been and still are more loan/subsidies than in the US, but the cost hasn't skyrocketed to such shameful levels than in the US. On the other hand, truly market liberalism doesn't always lower prices: "brands" such as Ferrari or Pattek Philippe because they cater to a limited market (and I'd say that arts students are a limited market) and they not only sell a product but a brand (like Juilllard). So the premise in the second sentence is incorrect, and combining that with the real-world datapoints from other countries, I'd say that the answer to your question is that "neoliberal free market capistalist economy" (not my words) make a more compelling argument that "government loans/subsidies".

[@rjlchristie]

@@MayaRavichandran Oh yeah, that'll work. About as well as trickle down of wealth does.

[@thejarofbutter]

Juilliard is a great school in terms of what you can do, but one person with power can make the experience horrible.

[@brooklynrosekim1115]

I live in the middle of Carnige Hall and Juilliard. I got to go to Carnige one day and that was amazing. But I was with my best friend one day and saw the Juilliard protest. Since I am A YOUNG CHILD I WAS FREAKED OUT

[@sepphie469]

im glad that julliard students have stood up for this issue! the way the school took the situation was very immature and i hope all of those students have good, successful careers. also im early for once O_O

[@CorcihVerschav]

I really love violin so much! Unfortunately, my parents couldn't afford a violin. So I saved for 3 years and bought myself a ukulele. The closest and cheap instruments I ever got. I had been dreaming going to any music universitie ever since I was in middle school. But given in my situation I knew it was impossible. I even planned to get a scholarship, but my parents weren't very positive at the idea. In my state of country I can't afford a job that is related to music unless if I apply education and become a teacher or I could apply to a private company that teaches students instruments. I taught myself to learn ukulele and currently guitar by a book I bought and also by the internet. I never got a teacher that could teach me. I still remember my mom and dad were guilty and ashamed that they didn't let me go to music school. I never blame them even once. But I could never deny that I never got frustrated. I did and still do now. Currently, I have been studying in a science school taking all architectural courses. Never wanted this and never will, but in order to survive I must. I promised myself to give myself and my parents a tour around the world and let them even once attend a symphony concert. I understand how frustrated the students were. I know the feeling of being restricted and silent. I hope this situation will resolve.

[@littlegreenclementine]

maybe you can dream about working with audio engineers/technicians to build music venues and performing arts centers in your area in the future. but honestly its never too late to learn an instrument, i wish you the best

[@BettyAlexandriaPride]

I hope that you're able to earn enough to one day get that violin. Purchasing my first baby grand was so rewarding. It was used. It didn't come from Steinway like I dreamed. But it was mine and I worked really hard to eventually save up enough. I haven't been able to get maintenence done to the pedal board, so I don't play as much as I would like. I usually opt for the keyboard instead because of my family having to sleep or work all in one house post Covid. But I digress. It may not be perfect, but I hope you get one that's yours. I suggest you check out local music stores to see if they have rent to own programs or used violins you can purchase. There's also trading groups on Facebook that sometimes give items away for free (as long as you come pick them up). Not sure how safe that is now, but it's an option. Sometimes thrift stores have some. Even schools sometimes give away instruments that need to be serviced and in rare cases allow you to trade instruments. My high school let me trade out my old flute for an open hole one when I graduated. Another thing you can look for is neighborhood classes. I live in Detroit, so the Detroit Symphony Orchestra usually has a civic youth ensemble. There's also a group called urban strings that allows children and teens the opportunity to learn classical and popular music. While you may not get to keep the instrument, you can at least learn to play in the program. Obviously, I don't know your situation and most of my suggestions are contingent on if you have access to these items, but just doing a Google search of "used violins near me" can warrant something amazing. I hope you have a wonderful day and thank you for sharing your story.

[@francescafrancesca3554]

@@BettyAlexandriaPride This seems like a wonderful idea!!! Thanks for sharing it!!

[@BettyAlexandriaPride]

@@francescafrancesca3554 You're welcome, I hope it helps many people. :)

[@francescafrancesca3554]

@@BettyAlexandriaPride ^^ thanks!!!

[@brianbethea3069]

No, locking large groups of people into a building is certainly not legal. That has historically resulted in numerous incidents of large numbers of people burning to death in fires, which resulted in fire codes prohibiting the locking of doors from the outside so that people inside cannot leave. Prior to unionization, employers would typically lock their employees into factories so that they could not leave, and on at least one occasion a department store on fire has locked its doors so that nobody inside could leave with any products. They preferred people to burn to death with their merchandise rather than walk free with (or without) it. Locking people inside of a building is absolutely despicable.

[@JuliaJacobsen]

Thank you so much for talking about this! Around the US, music schools have gotten so incredibly expensive that I’ve had friends who get accepted to top conservatories go somewhere else because of the high cost. Juilliard is definitely one of the most expensive. Please share this story wherever you can and contact Juilliard administration regarding the tuition freeze!

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8🎹🎹🎹

[@BubblyViolin11]

Piping in because I have a LITTLE knowledge on how endowments work. I only know this because two of my friends were young trustees (a student selected to be part of the board of trustees post grad) and learned a lot about how the distribution of money works within a private institution. So endowments, while incredibly large for many longstanding institutions, are INCREDIBLY specific. No one can use that money unless it fits a very specific set of criteria (and yes, if a pandemic isn't part of that criteria, you can't use it). So even if Julliard has an endowment worth over $1 Billion, unless circumstances fit the criteria, they can't pull from that fund at all, no exceptions. When it comes to donations, most schools will have a general fund that covers basic maintenance costs, upgrades, small installations, renos, etc. They will also accept project specific donations (like for a new building/scholarship, etc). The vast majority of donors that can give big money will opt for project specific donations. This way, they are able to control how the money is spent, and they get credited for the sizable donation (aka their name on the building). Most don't bother donating to the general fund because there's no glory associated with it even though the general fund is often used to cover very needed costs. Many schools will pull from the general fund to help lower tuition during times of crisis like Covid. This is often why you see private colleges hike up prices because they still have bills to pay and can't rely on donations to fund very needed changes (my alma mater has been doing this for the last 7 years). And as much as we all hate it, it's still technically a business, and a business needs money to stay afloat. If they don't hike up prices, they could face bankruptcy. My alma mater almost filed for bankruptcy my sophomore year because of this. They fought so hard to keep tuition costs low and scholarships high, but because they were putting out more money than they were taking in, couldn't touch their endowment, and couldn't rely on donations to the general fund, they ran into a deficit. Now their financial program is flipped. Less scholarship money, and more tuition. Now, I don't agree with what's happening at Julliard. The school isn't handling it well, and the students have every right to be angry. With that said, I think the issue of sky high tuition isn't a Julliard problem, it's an American problem. You guys mentioned that the Manhattan School of Music was high at $51K, but USC over in California is around the same. Many of these elite institutions are located in areas where the cost of living is already sky high. In order to stay afloat, these schools do need to charge a premium (on top of the fact that they have solid programs). Because education is terribly funded in the US, the private sector steps in to fill in the gaps created by our system. If you want quality, you have to be willing to pay the price. But it comes with the understanding that you will be in debt for the next 20-30 years. Esp in a field like music, if you want to make a decent living, you can't go to any run of the mill music program. You need to go to an established institution that has the connections you need to get you a job that can pay off the loans you have just to get your education. When Americans talk about our system being broken, THIS IS WHY.

[@ladida9084]

Boost

[@eml5970]

Well said. This is an issue at ALL Higher Ed programs.

[@kylezo]

idk why this comment is making it sound like higher education institutions "have no choice" but it's a garbage take.

[@BettyAlexandriaPride]

@@kylezo Maybe it was the case with their school. My university was private as well. However, I don't think that this is the case for Juilliard. I am not a student so I have no way of knowing, but my university sent letters out to us detailing where our money was going whenever they raised the tuition. We complained that we were paying an extra 2K for grass, but at least we knew. (I'm only semi exaggerating. The campus manicure was a part of the increase budget.) When I was a freshman, back in 2012, we received a 1 Million dollar donation to the music department. That money was allocated for specific things, so the part about how schools receive endowments are true. There's something else to note However; sometimes Alumni who donate later come back to give only to the students. They choose to do this due to bad experiences with the staff, or unfair fiscal affairs observed during their matriculation. Some examples of this are scholarships given to students specifically to buy instruments. Alumni do this as a way to sidestep faculty who become complacent and don't provide the quality that students deserve. Private universities DO jump through a lot of hoops, however they also receive benefits that state schools do not. We understand that education in America is a business. However, there are ethical businesses and then there are not. Regardless of if we agree or not, have a nice day.

[@LilyUnicorn]

....as someone who worked in the military and with governmemt budgets.... thats a load of bs you just spilled. Its all about who you know. The one controlling the money is almost always siphoning the maintenance fees for themselves. And trust me 1 billion in donations is enough to keep buildings maintained without raising rent and still have plenty left over. Theyre double dipping. Stop bsing

[@jacktrainer4387]

Indiana, Yale, Peabody, and Curtis aren't exactly charm schools. Plenty of fantastic options out there.

[@andrea-hg4zz]

bro wtf does julliard think students have an extra 13k usd in their bank accounts or something ?? imagine how long it's going to take to pay off the student loans

[@sarabensouda7422]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHS0YatrnLNknK8🎹🎹🎹❤️