Exposing Dark Secrets of the Violin Industry

Here are some articles we referenced:
www.thestrad.com/secret-commi...
www.thestrad.com/lutherie/can...
www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...
www.thestrad.com/lutherie/sar...
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S N A P C H A T: Brettybang | Eddy.Chen

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Thank you so much for sharing this Guys!! 😍 As a violin shop owner I get so frustrated _when I see a bright and up and coming student finding their perfect instrument only to be told by their teacher that they have a much better one for them (because the teacher can get a commission on that one). Often the string players end up_ with an instrument that is worse or doesn't suit them well... but they are stuck with it... I have seen students buy overpriced instruments with fake labels that were recommended by their teacher. That's just sad! I personally never have and never will pay commissions. I tell teachers if they want a commission, they can always buy the instrument of me and sell it at a higher price to the student. If a teacher does get commission they definitely need to DISCLOSE THIS to the student. I loose a lot of sales because I don't give commissions to teachers, but I can go to sleep at night knowing that I always work in the best interest of the string player, and allow the string player to find the instrument that suits them best.

[@sinpi314]

Really like your reaction video to this

[@Lampey22]

We love you Olaf!!

[@stanleyshepherd-brown6004]

you go olaf

[@la_moondrops5799]

Aw, I am so excited to see Olaf here. Taking time to read your comment and I am so PROUD of you, Olaf. You really make the world a better place. One thing for sure, every violinist would be so lucky to have their violin specially made by an amazing person like you. I am still a beginner, but one day when my violin playing skills are good enough that I deserve to get a better violin, I hope I m knowledgeable enough to choose myself a fine one. Keep up the good work! Thank you for sharing, also thanks to TwoSet Violin for the informative video. Lots of ♥ for you, guys!

[@maximilian2843]

Amen to your good night sleep

[@daniasajid6742]

Dark secrets of the violin industry: Everyone secretly stans sacrilegious bumblebee men

[@hevelyntewuh9351]

I think they are worshipping Ben lee

[@misuzu437]

That's too dark. I can't live in this world anymore

[@hevelyntewuh9351]

@@anaccount9554 Ben Lee is starting to manipulate us owhhh my brain

[@abigail40]

**gasp**

[@hevelyntewuh9351]

@@abigail40 Pikachu face overload

[@Fiddlershop]

We can't even tell you how many teachers have called and asked us if we offer a commission... We can comfortably say that we have NEVER offered this and will NEVER, EVER, do that! (even if it loses us some business) We're so happy someone is bringing this up and we hope that everyone sees this video and spreads this news!

[@aconite72]

Has your shop ever been threatened by a teacher to cut you off from their students, though? Also, good on you for taking a stand!

[@pixiecute839]

No way Fiddlerman! First things first, loved your Let It Snow group profect, its awesome that you don't give in like most businesses cause on your site I know your prices won't change, and I hope to buy my first violin from you guys one day.

[@samlevi4744]

This makes me even happier with my purchase from you than I already was. Although my instructor was kind enough to let me know I purchased a great violin when she first saw it.

[@samlevi4744]

@@pixiecute839 I bought my first one from them. I have zero complaints.

[@samlevi4744]

@@aconite72 I’d wager they have enough of a reach online to insulate them from such threats. Or at least insulate them from having to take such threats seriously.

[@flutechannel]

You could say a lot of these things for the flute industry as well.

[@diegogolfhotel]

Expose those inflated brannen prices! Hahaha

[@stupled]

So is generalized in the musical instruments industry.

[@sabrinai]

Really? I used to play the flute... I thought about the time when I bought my flute. My teacher just told me to get my instrument at that one shop and I never second guessed that recommendation. I think though that it was like THE one shop for flutes/clarinettes etc. in our city. But of course i could have just bought one somewhere else. I just really never thought of getting a second opinion or even compare prices

[@terryenby2304]

Yikes! I am grateful my parents brought my flute via the music charity in our area then. At least any profit will have gone to other kids like me who wanted to learn.

[@James-en1ob]

Oh my

[@atomix4u693]

Dark Secrets of the Violin Industry: *not practicing*

[@abigail40]

oops im guilty ;-;

[@egmusic7219]

And if you are still good. Than you shall be a demon 😈

[@accretionescapee]

Yes!

[@lacrimis_solis]

vvovv

[@jenniferluo2104]

Hahaha

[@everyoneelsemovedonfan]

The one dislike is probably a teacher who feels called out haha

[@noahhyun3172]

Probably lol

[@WaltRBuck]

feels? Haha There are 14 called out teachers now.

[@Peralala]

I am a music teacher. I have had many parents of my students contact me to ask for advice on choosing the right instrument for their child. I always recommend based on my own expertise, but I don't know every instrument and child's need as I am a class teacher and not instrumental teacher. I usually advice their parents to speak to an instrument shop of their choice to find the right instrument size, range, price, and make for their needs.

[@WaltRBuck]

@@Peralala There's no doubt about it. There are honest people out there. It's just getting harder and harder to find them and discern between them and it's by design.

[@Peralala]

@@WaltRBuck of course. It definitely depends of where you are too. I'm not a classical musician so this might be something more common in the classical music teaching world than pop music and general classroom teaching. It could also be something that doesn't really happen where I am (UK).

[@grissini]

Pianist be like ''oh for once a good thing about not having my own instrument and playing the w/e random wood keyboard horrendous machine the concert hall ask me to play on :D''

[@_moonfall_]

Omg, I was once asked to play a piano IN THE DARK that was MISSING KEYS. Like wtf?

[@BadGirlFan]

You also don't have to lug your instrument onto an airplane and hope it's still in one piece when you land ;)

[@jordie_73]

Grissini project! what're you doing here :o I love your covers so much! your merry go round of life and interstellar covers are absolute classics

[@lacialovescats]

@@BadGirlFan so true

[@fishwithbutter]

@@BadGirlFan U Swedish? Your Surname sounds pretty Swedish

[@scottfree2b]

My first (and last) violin was a "factory" Strad. My mother bought it at a pawn shop for $250 and honestly thought she'd made a find. She said to 9 year old me, "I don't think they knew what they had." She handed it to me reverently. I always treated it with that same reverence. Once I was playing semi-professionally and later studying with Kato Havas, I knew it had been made in a factory but didn't care. It sounded wonderful and it was still amazing to me. Many people, upon hearing me play, wanted to buy it or trade their FAR more valuable instruments, for my little factory fiddle. NO WAY! I never even considered "upgrading". I suppose if I had gone on to the concert stage I'd have considered some other path but as it was, my mother really did make a fine find.

[@orlock20]

Most violinists can't hear their own instrument out of a lineup. Some pick cheaper instruments as sounding better to them, The high priced instruments is another scam in the classical instrument world.

[@eleanormason2647]

@@orlock20 It's like wine or many other things- up to a certain price, the money makes a difference in quality, but after that it's just a symbol of status. Like a designer bag that costs £2,000, or even £10k+, that's not going to be of any higher quality than a £200 bag, or a bottle of wine that costs over £35, you're not going to notice an improvement after that.

[@sakuraneko2595]

@@eleanormason2647 Exactly, and designer bags are probably made the same way normal bags are.There's also a high risk of theft which isn't worth it.

[@propyro85]

@@orlock20 Not just classical instruments, there's plenty of that in the guitar world as well.

[@stephieg]

@@orlock20 I have a factory Strad copy that was made in Germany in 1900. Found it on Ebay for a good deal because it was missing parts (bridge, strings, two pegs.) Easily replaceable parts. It is an amazing sounding instrument, the resonance on it is much better than any of the other violins other family members own.

[@paranormallazivity9677]

can we just appreciate and support twoset for being brave enough to speak out.

[@abigail40]

yess

[@jeremythomas4744]

The paganini mafia wants to know your location

[@susanbryant6516]

I ‘appreciate’ them, but I’m not sure they are particularly ‘brave’ to do it. There isn’t much risk to them at all really. I guess a few teachers getting dodgy commissions might start dissing them to their students, who will then stop watching the videos, but those numbers aren’t high enough to cause them much financial distress.

[@hopegold883]

@ Susan Bryant It’s funny how internet fame/influencer culture works. Someone starts a campaign slamming them, and it gradually spreads and takes on a life of its own, whether based in truth or not. Down the line, people forget what the initial accusation was, but they’re left with a vaguely shady sense of the KZbinr. Then, in the split second decision whether to click on a video, something else looks more interesting. KZbin’s algorithm is all about the clicks. This is Twoset’s livelihood. Not to mention how painful it is to read s**t about yourself, even if - especially if - you know it’s not true.

[@laurenspring1628]

I didn't want to ruin your 777 likes, but I love your comment

[@alieznz]

2021 is the year Twoset exposing everything and I'm all here for it

[@abigail40]

yes quality content /srs

[@miguelangelcorimanya5706]

Fugo

[@alanacastillo90]

They went from a roasting channel to a CREMATING channel

[@ILikeBirds]

Same

[@ILikeBirds]

@@alanacastillo90 cremating with the power of ling ling

[@scruffycritter]

Yes! When I was a poor student I bought a new violin from an equally poor young luthier... and was shocked when my rich teacher, who had a Strad and a Del Gesu called the luthier to demand a big commission. I only learned this years later. I am still shocked decades later because my teacher knew we were poor.

[@Ana.Garcia.]

That's messed up

[@MsTemperTantrum739]

Fake!

[@GuestUser18]

​@@MsTemperTantrum739 yea. Kind of hard to believe that a "poor" student could learn from a rich teacher that has a strad? But if it's true it ia disgusting.

[@vinnyl264]

Not sure i can believe this because if you were poor, how did you get a rich teacher who appears to care a lot about money to teach you?

[@TomJacobW]

@@GuestUser18 surely fan fiction. That being said, strads became billionaire playthings only just somewhat recently. Just in the 1970s you could get yourself one for like 100, maybe 200k $ - that sort of range. Rich, but “chief of medicine” sort of rich, not “I own 4 factories and produce 12% of the worlds supply in PVC”-rich!

[@heatheraustin-stone5415]

Wow, I have been a performer and teacher for 26 years and I have NEVER done this. I didn't even know this was a thing. If I go with a student to help a pick out an instrument, they just buy me lunch. That is it, I get no money. I am shocked by this.

[@da96103]

Now you know, you should ask for lobster and foie gras and caviar for lunch.

[@heatheraustin-stone5415]

@@da96103 LOL you may be right!😆

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

I'm not a professional musician. From my outside perspective, if you are transparent about it and are acting in your client's best interest (and are not creating conflicts of interest by accepting cash from music stores), charging some sort of finder's fee is ok. I am a little shocked by what some people will pay to get their kids "ahead", though. It creates an imbalance that can't be good for the world.

[@kitochristo]

Just saying, but some teachers instead of taking commission (with the store they are connected to), tells their students they get 10% off or how much the teacher gets from the commission, when they tell they are recommended from their teacher.

[@Goriaas]

@@heatheraustin-stone5415 A meal is fair price. If I ask my mechanic buddy to check out if a car is worth buying I owe him lunch too

[@ruru_official]

Even as a person that does not play any instrument, it is important to be aware about this issue. Thank you twoset.

[@lacrimis_solis]

Yeah!

[@ruru_official]

When children's passion becomes a network for scams. As a teacher myself, I am embarrassed and speechless at the same time.

[@lightandnightEQUINOX]

Very true. This also occurs in other institutions. Had an experience where a professor would require us to buy a specific textbook from a specific shop only to barely use it.

[@huangary9916]

Yes!! For sure, especially parents out there whose kids wanna learn to play any instrument. Some parents may consult the wrong people and end up getting instruments that might hinder their children’s musical journey. So it’s definitely important even for parents to talk to the right people from the start.

[@ruru_official]

@@lightandnightEQUINOX OMG. It happened to me too. Especially those books that are written by them. It is a requirement and I can't buy or borrow other books from other major that have the same subject because we have different professors.

[@annmol589]

This is very risky... But brave. And I'm glad this comes after the mental health video because you're looking at all the ins and outs of the structure of the industry that pressures artists to an edge. Thank you Brett and Eddy. ❣️

[@abigail40]

agreed! its quality content /srs

[@sloth0jr]

I mean ... how are they brave? What risks are they specifically taking? They are well-known in the violin world, they know how to play, they often deal with the makers of the instruments themselves.... what do you imagine could happen to them?

[@gailwy]

@@sloth0jr I think anytime you compromise someone’s way of making money, there’s always risk of backlash. They could get many negative messages from those who are mad and get targeted with other forms of internet hate. With that said, I don’t think anyone can really sue them for the things they shared since they didn’t name any one business, but still.

[@samiraboughaleb7335]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6mQiqOLesidhM0.

[@soo-jinpark1737]

@@samiraboughaleb7335 don't click this link, it's just some lame dancemonkey piano cover. stop promoting stuff here pls.

[@YCN0810]

I’m a Erhu player , one time I took my friend to a Chinese traditional instrument shop, that is a store that I’m familiar. After my friend paid for the instrument, the owner asked me to stay for a while, and he gave me the commission. It almost 1/3 of the price. I’m shocked about this because I never want to get commission from my friend. After that I gave the money back to my friend and told him all the things.

[@ValiantVicuna]

I cannot imagine how my violin career would have been different if I didn't wholeheartedly trust my teacher. She took so much time and effort helping me pick my full sized violin and bow. She ordered 3 violins and 5 bows, had me sit turned away from her in a church and she played the same rift with each variation, having me pick my favorite sound. Then once I've picked my favorite bow and violin, she got another shipment just to do the same test again just to make sure it was the right fit! She was so amazing

[@takumikatashi2889]

As someone who’s not in the musical world directly (although I do want to learn to play an instrument someday), I really love this new style of videos where they just sit in front of a camera and talk to us about something. Am I the only one?

[@zoemochi]

Nope, you're not

[@Jinzl]

me as well

[@miiyamin4308]

Nope, I love it so much!

[@fish5465]

Me too. Always to learn something new from our favourite youtuber! ;)

[@annaandhertypewriter4395]

Nope, I absolutely love this! If people don't appericiate this kind of content that's their problem, this is Brett's & Eddy's channel

[@jackwolfe6815]

Eddy mentioned the time that J.B. Vuillaume made a copy of Paganini's violin that was so uncannily similar that even Paganini could barely tell the difference. After Paganini died in 1840, Vuillaume made another copy of his Guarneri in 1864. It's still being used to this day. The owner? Hilary Hahn.

[@roshnaawincita_music]

**gasp**

[@justanotherlinglingwannabe546]

👁👄👁 gasps!

[@JohnSmith-bu2nm]

Thanks for the history lesson. Considering the original Cannone has been fully repaired because of the improper storage, Hilary's copy might be the most authentic image of the one that Paganini had owned.

[@boogerrrrr]

Don't worry, she knows that it's a copy if anyone's wondering

[@pyotrilyichtchaikovsky9507]

she uses it cause although it is a copy. It is still a wonderful instrument as you tell lols

[@LucasFabro]

Being a violin maker myself I can’t even express how much I appreciate this video and how important i think it is to start addressing this issue. Unfortunately I’ve quite some stories I could tell and there are a lot of shady things in this industry and I know perfectly well how difficult it can be for a young maker to enter certain markets because even when you approach a musician with a much better instrument (in quality, sound and price) than the one that the teacher recommends (because teachers can get up to a 50% commission by doing this), most students will still end up buying that one because of their full confidence on the teacher.

[@robbins2973]

50%????!!!!!

[@LucasFabro]

@@robbins2973 Unfortunately yes :/ And I'm afraid to say that that percentage is not an exception!

[@THEsnapcrakklepop]

The calm, explanatory manner in which they did this video was so classy. It’s not a scandalous shaming type of thing or something they did to rack up views; you can tell this is something they really took their time with and is important to them. Gosh I love TwoSet!

[@michellec3871]

I guess the nice part about being a vocalist is that you don’t have to buy an instrument 😂

[@TheConcertmaster]

You mean you don’t have to shop for an instrument, as the instrument has already been assigned to you 😉 Otherwise, I guess we can say that the money you invest in voice lessons could be considered itself the “purchasing” of your instrument.

[@cielomonarez2475]

@@TheConcertmaster true. One still has to be careful with the professors and instructors you get.

[@TheConcertmaster]

@@cielomonarez2475 Yes, of course, that’s very true. Unfortunately, it seems that there are way more horror stories out there than happy endings. Think poor Rolando Villazon...they ruined him.

[@raccoonchild]

@@TheConcertmaster I don't get it, what's the difference between 'buying' and 'shopping for' in this context...? Shopping for something ultimately involves paying for it. I don't understand the correction.

[@TheConcertmaster]

@@raccoonchild Shopping for something implies that you go to the store (or many stores) in search of the best version of whatever you are looking to buy. For example, shopping for a violin means you will go to a violin shop(s) and try out as many violins as possible and choosing the one you like the best, with the intention of buying it. Same for clothes, etc. But if you are a vocalist, your instrument (i.e. your voice) is already given to you from birth (ie. There’s no such thing as going to a “voice shop” and choosing a voice for yourself to buy, lol). So while you don’t buy your voice, you do have to pay for voice lessons if you want to develop good, healthy technique and sing well. I hope this explanation was clear 😉

[@hevelyntewuh9351]

Dark secret of the violin industry : they print their music sheet

[@hevelyntewuh9351]

@kdfount the printer go brbrbbrrrrr

[@jurithemusicdivaofficial]

I don't print out sheet music though. I just download them online and sight read them on my iPad. Besides, I'm too lazy to print them out because my printer is such a brat. (the last time I printed out sheet music was last year)

[@vistastructions]

TWOSET X IMSLP MERCH!!!!

[@datnguyen3441]

Erm more like dark secret of the music industry.

[@won8603]

Print by Hand.

[@4Gehe2]

People. Join the revolution, buy new instruments from makers that are alive, based on how they feel and sound. This is also the only way to keep the tradition and skills of instrument making alive. By there being demand for new instruments that are of good quality. Doesn't matter what's your classical instrument, support the artisans and legit manufacturers.

[@subasjjones]

My sister played trumpet in middle school. We went to church with a shop worker who kept the sale under wraps. My sister was told not to tell where she got the trumpet but to say that we already had the trumpet. The music teacher tried to tell our parents that she NEEDED to go to a certain shop and get a “better” trumpet. Some music teachers are really greedy.

[@WatchOnYT]

In my country it's actually illegal to tell a student to buy from a certain shop. If the teacher wants to get a commission, they have to buy it themselves and sell it to the students by themselves.

[@nikitakazakevic1928]

Sir, what country are you living in?

[@taylorjones3286]

@@nikitakazakevic1928 Germany

[@daulahiftitah6461]

Ah, no wonder

[@abigail40]

woah, noicee

[@noahhyun3172]

Nice. A lot of german makers are good as well.

[@natalielo9370]

I had such horrible commission experience before. When I was 13-14 I wanted to upgrade my piano and then I asked my teacher’s opinion. She insisted a brand for me to buy and even arranged an agent to serve me. At the end I refused and she was really mad at me and scolded me for being irresponsible or something (I did not promise anything to her and the agent btw) As a 13 year old kid then thing I only know is I let my teacher down and then I blamed myself so hard How horrible that we trust our teachers but they just want to make profit from us........

[@ankavoskuilen1725]

Awful!

[@JohnSmith-bu2nm]

Usually adults, like your parents, have more experiences with this kind of matter. If they know this unusual generous behavior, they should smell something suspicious and tell you the possibilities of commissions.

[@cloudberry7241]

Ohhh i am sorryyy, i hope things became better later.

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

That's a shocking story... Traumatising a kid so they can get some extra money... It can really deeply effect a player..

[@Chompchompyerded]

I taught Viola and historically informed performance, and this is the first I've ever heard of this. I always advised my students to only buy instrument in which they could hear a positive difference. I reasoned that if the student could not hear a difference, and if they found that their playing couldn't make a positive difference in sound between a less expensive instrument and a more expensive one, they should buy the less expensive of the two. When it comes to Strads, all of the extant Strads are known, so you shouldn't buy a Stad unless it is one of the known Strads. Two things to remember about Strads and del Jesu's and other instruments made in the 17th and 18th centuries are not all good (some Strads just aren't that good). The second thing is that all instruments of the 17th and 18th centuries have been modified, and the modifications were made to these instruments to create the brighter, more brash sound of the modern symphony orchestra. The sound that they were originally made to make was noticeably different All you need do is listen to any chambre orchestra using historically informed practices coupled with instruments either unmodified since the 17th and 18th centuries, or close copies there of. I'll recoment three such chambre orchestras for you to listen to and compare to modern symphony orchestras, and hopefully you will be able to hear the difference. I played with the Academy of Ancient Music. My college mentor was Nic McGegan. His orchestra, Philharmonia Baroque, is another group you should use for comparison purposes. Another such orchestra which I played in is the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. Listen to these three orchestras and then to a modern symphony orchestra with an ear toward the sound differences. Knowing what they sound like you will start to realize that it is more by happy accident that Strads and Guarnari del Gesu ended up sounding as they do. Some of the things which have changed are immediately noticeable. You will find that the pitch standard is different. We were tuning to an A which was in the neighborhood of 414 cycles per second. Many modern orchestras tune to an A which is 440 cycles, though in the chase to sound even brighter (might I say laser like?) there are some people who are using a pitch standard of 442 or even higher. It has definitely crept up over the years. In the 16th and 17th centuries strings were made of animal gut (the legends say cat gut, but our research found that other animal guts were much more common, including cow, sheep, and horse gut. Modern instruments use either steel wound gut, or steel wound pearlon. Gut strings which are not wound will break if tuned to 440 cycles per minute. Likewise, modern wrapped strings will sound flabby if tuned to 414. One of the biggest differences in the instruments themselves is to what degree the fingerboard is cantilevered, and how long the fingerboard is. A baroque fingerboard is shorter than a modern fingerboard, and has less of an arc across the width. The tailpiece is often flat, but is also sometimes ornately carved. There was no standard pattern on which bridge blanks were cut, and those too could be very ornately carved. There are never either chin or shoulder rests on the instruments, and very often the instruments were not held as we hold modern instruments. When holding a modern violin/viola, you should be able to let go of the instrument and hold it between your chin and your shoulder without the support of your hand. That was not the case in the 17th and 18th centuries. The bow is a whole other different world. Bows from the 1700's to 1800's exist, but none are in playable condition. They do, however serve as a model of what bows from that time were like. There was almost no standardization in baroque and classical period bows. You could find bows in length anywhere from six inches long up. I have seen one bow which was a full meter long! By now almost everyone has seen a baroque bow, but not everyone understands what they are seeing. Early baroque bows did not have an adjustable tension screw at the back of the stick. Usually the frog just clipped to the stick. The tension screw didn't really come into existence until the middle of the 18th century. Even though that's the case, few bow makers these days make bows with clip frogs, and most make only bows which have a tension screw at the back of the stick. The wood out of which baroque bows are made is a whole other difference. Modern bows are made almost exclusively of pernambuco. Though some baroque bows were made of pernambuco, most were made of snakewood. That made for some big differences in the mechanics of the bow, and how it is commonly used in baroque music. Also, whereas the modern Torte bow has a blunt square nose, the baroque bow has a stick which rockets to a kind of point at the end. It is interesting to look at bows and how they evolved from the typical baroque bow, threw an intermediate stage, and then into the familiar Torte bow. The evolution is clear. Most of us who play in a historically informed manner will have several bows and at least two instruments. Which we choose will depend entirely on what time period we are dealing with. If we are playing Handel, we will chose one of the more rocketed typical baroque bows, but if we are playing Haydn , Mozart, or Beethoven, we will choose an intermediate bow. If we are playing something like Schubert, Schumann, or Mendelssohn we will choose a bow which is very close to the modern Torte bow. The mechanics of the various bows are dramatic, and have a profound effect on the overall sound. I'm guessing very few people will bother to read this. I'm incurable when it comes to wanting to teach, so today your video has become my victim.I hope you don't mind. Because I am now disabled and bed-bound this is about the only avenue I have for reaching out and teaching. Again, I hope you don't mind. I love what you two are doing, and I see it as a perfect platform for dropping information like this into. Best of luck, and keep up the good work!

[@zivauri]

Fascinating. Thanks!

[@isathena]

this was a very interesting read , i hope you find a way to teach again :)

[@Chompchompyerded]

@@isathena Thanks! In a way, I am. It's only that I'm not being paid for it that differentiates this from what I did in the past. Being paid isn't important. Sharing knowledge and information is the payoff for me. I don't know how many people read what I wrote, but since there are 15 thumbs up, that means at least 15 people did. The classes I taught usually didn't have many more than that number of students in them, so the class size is good. I hope that if anyone reads what I have written and has any questions will ask them. I will, as I did when I was teaching, either give the answer, or find out if I can. I don't have the resources available that I once had, so sometimes I just have to answer, "I don't know". But the up and the down of it is that I do still teach. Just unofficially so.

[@spicygayboi]

so interesting, thank you so much for sharing this information :)

[@antoniacarroll953]

I don't even play violin and I read all of this. You should make a blog, this is super interesting to me! I love historical accuracy, i can't explain why, but this kind of knowledge is extremely fascinating. Thank you for sharing!

[@ronnie.938]

My teacher put pressure on me to buy a bow for 400€ although it was probably worth around 70€ Later I found out that the guy who sold these bows was a close friend of my violin teacher

[@Namite0001]

Yo that commission story is crazy...I was fortunate enough where my violin teacher had a small business where she went out and worked with a close luthier friend to restore violins and sell them. She explained the process when I bought the violin, and I knew where all the money would be going. But to think teachers would take such advantage of students and their parents like that...

[@earlybyrdy]

commission system is everywhere like doctors recommending medicine from a certain store. it's really annoying

[@ryanong3517]

How is it taking advantage? Willing buyer, willing seller.

[@queenjeski591]

@@earlybyrdy it’s crazy that that medicine stuff is even allowed in the US. i guess that’s capitalism for ya 🤷‍♀️

[@wangcheng1174]

I'm thankful to have a good teacher too... She is cousins with the piano seller that I bought a new piano from after playing on my old piano for 12 years. I love my new piano! I have had it for a year and it's greattttt. lol

[@hydrogen3266]

@@ryanong3517 it’s taking advantage/unethical because the teacher is seen as an authority to the student, who doesn’t know much and uses their expertise as advice. Little do they know the teacher is just using that as a backhanded way to get money, which ensures that the student isn’t getting the best price and that their money isn’t going where they think it is

[@carolmccurdy6576]

My high school orchestra director once answered a question I had about the value of my instrument. When I asked him how much it was worth he said “Do you like the sound?” “Yes, I love the sound. “ He then asked” “is the violin easy for you to play?” “Very.” He played the instrument for about two minutes. Then he asked “Do you want to sell it?” “No. I just want to find out if it’s valuable. “ He told me “The violin is probably worth around $1200.00. But if you love and it and wouldn’t sell it, then it is priceless. Instruments are like people. You can’t put a price tag on something you love. “ He was a very wis person.

[@tor13128]

True, but that is because I haven't had the chance to play a better instrument, so all my answers to the teacher would lack valid relative comparison (THE ORIGINAL REASON WHY I ASKED A MORE EXPERIENCED PERSON). If I did get to play another (superior) instrument, I would gain the ability to compare, and even more so if I got to play 5 better instruments. What was "love" and "very" would turn into "like" and "decent". I would also argue the meaning of "love" as he concluded way too soon that it was "love". that would morally trap me to never sell my instrument because it would make me think i'm immoral and unfaithful, but actually, he was the one who chose the word "love". *If i truly loved something, i wouldn't have needed an outsider to inform me of that.* e.g., i won't trade my parents away for another better adult, but my instrument??? the only reason i would go ask my teacher is because i was unsure about my instrument!!!!! he throws out the word "love" and "priceless" at me, so now i gotta treat it like a lover or a family?! i'm guilt-tripped into never selling it!!! if 2 of those 5 better instruments costs $1,000 more, i could have easily sold my current instrument for $1,200 and bought them, but because i lacked relative comparison when i asked my teacher, and he told me i loved my instrument and it's priceless, now i gotta save up an entire $2,200 cause i'm guilt tripped into not selling my original instrument (cause i'd be unfaithful and betraying "love"). the whole point a student who lacks experience asks is because they lack experience and ability to compare/gauge their own instruments. what is the point if a teacher then tells the student who cannot gauge their own instruments against others to then evaluate the instrument themselves, with nothing to use as a guide??? not only did the teacher answer NOTHING, but now he suddenly brainwashed you into feeling "love" for an instrument that you (a moment ago) was asking for a fair appraisal of??? if i knew i loved my parents, i wouldn't go and ask "what would u rate my parents?" IF I KNEW I LOVED SOMETHING, I WOULDN'T NEED YOU TO TELL ME IT WAS PRICELESS. I would've sold it and bought a better one, but after the teacher said that, he could've brainwashed me to keep the instrument (for sentimental reasons that he inserted into my head) and then i would spend more money buying a better instrument. imo, he gave overly romantic advice. he was trying to sound deep, and it did sound deep. but in terms of logic, i call bs.

[@anthonyzbikowski529]

@@tor13128 I think you are thinking this too far out. Don't overthink this. It's a fiddle, not a marriage. If even as a student, an instrument suits you, if it feels and plays right in you hands, and allows you to express yourself how you want to express yourself then the actual market value is inconsequential. It really doesn't matter if it's $1,000 or $10,000 if you have a "keeper." That is what the OP's teacher is saying. A violin is pieces of wood made into a box that is held together with boiled animal proteins which you scrape animal hair attached to a stick across to make sounds. Some of these boxes are worth more money than others for a variety of reasons, but the market price alone doesn't tell you how good that particular box is at making the desired sounds, especially for a particular player's preferences.. Yes, more expensive wooden boxes almost always have a correlation to better sound making capability, but much of that is up to preferences and perception. I have a $2000+ dollar viola I wouldn't trade or sell for anything. It is a very bright, loud, and somewhat un-viola like viola. It is an excellent, if unconventional viola and a number of teachers and other players have remarked on it. It was an unexpected gift from my grandmother who passed away 20 years ago, and I picked it out at the luthier myself. I have a ton of sentimental value into it but there is also the fact that I have always liked the sound of this instrument and it suited me. There are many other violas which I have played I would love to own, but I always come back to that one because it feels and sounds right to me. I also own a very pedestrian Mittenwald violin I picked up for $50 and threw another $200 into repair because I liked it enough to think it needed saving from Goodwill or the landfill. It's decent for what it is, a very standard 1980's student instrument. I'd give it away in a heartbeat to a new student if I could find a violin I actually favored more. I have not, as of yet found one (that I can afford, I did find one that I loved but the asking price was $10,000) that suits me so I keep what I have, despite the fact I could easily drop a couple grand and get an objectively much better instrument.

[@carolmccurdy6576]

@@tor13128 I see your point. As a violin teacher myself, I wouldn't have given the same answer as my Orchestra director. I would simply ask the student why they want to sell their instrument, and give them my opinion of the fair value of their instrument. I don't buy or sell instruments for my students. I do however advise them on whether the instrument they want to buy is, IN MY OPINION worth the money. I do believe he gave me a fair answer to my question. He did tell me what it was worth, and because he knew me he gave me the advise to value what I had if I was satisfied with it. Being an emotional violinist himself, he did probably overdo it. Later, I traded my instrument in for a much finer instrument. I was in college and I knew that my violin was a good student instrument, but would not get me to the next level. I still have that second instrument. Thank you for your input!

[@n0odles86]

@@tor13128 good fecking lord. 🙄

[@salmongaming6753]

was???

[@georgebent7562]

As a retired violin teacher, having taught for almost 50 years, I couldn't believe that any teacher would try to get a commission on a pupil buying an instrument! All I ever wanted was that they played on a good instrument. I would always tell them to ask other violinists for their opinions on a prospective instrument as well, before making their final decision on whether to buy. It never occurred to me that this could possibly happen! I agree with your final comments on playing an instrument that you truly love the sound of and enjoy playing.

[@PassionPno]

This happens to piano too. Kawai actually has such programme.

[@twinicebear775]

My teacher does the opposite of this... he tells all his students to go with him to the shop and he usually gets them to lower the price by a significant amount

[@chadjohnson6718]

“Lower” the price.

[@geoffzuo9831]

Yeah maybe he is forcing the prices lower so that he gets more.

[@powbobs]

@@geoffzuo9831 That’s not how that works.

[@loveofchiaki]

probably up the price beforehand and pretended to lower it so the students buy them thinking they got a good bargain

[@working_chen6988]

Ex-Violin Teacher here (going full performance). For those wondering, the first one about commissions is definitely one of those secrets that even some violin teacher doesn't know about. I was about 17-18, teaching in a studio/violin shop to many kids, and one day because the student grew and needed a new violin (a full size). Because I was in a studio/shop, I know that there are a few good violins that I want the student to try out. So the student listened to my recommendation and brought the violin that I recommended. Literally, a day later, when I came back to work, the boss pulled me into a room and told me about this commission system that I never knew about (i got the commission, quite a hefty one as well for a 17 yr old that is having financial trouble going into university) and ask me to recommend more of my students (from other studios that I was teaching as well) to buy it from them. About a few weeks later, because university started, I left the job, and I never returned to that job. When I was in university I also talked to some of my friends that are in music education and even they know nothing about this commission system. So I guess this is prob an old generation thing? For the second one, I can't count how many times the student's parent had told me about this "AmAzInG" violin that they purchased and turns out to be fake and sounded like garbage. So please, if you are a student or a parent, the money is in your pocket, you get the final saying if you want to buy it or not. It is best to have someone that knows about violin/ or a very reputable luthier/shops that YOU KNOW won't take/commission or selling fake instruments to buy it with confidence.

[@JohnSmith-bu2nm]

It's maybe just the shop's manager saw the potential of making more money from you. It's hard to say such "system" exists in every countries.

[@nelsonang]

to be fair, you deserved your commission because you went out of your way to help your student get a good instrument 😊 it is those who take advantage of students with overpriced or crappy instruments that are sacrilegious!!!

[@bencze465]

That's the thing you have NO way of knowing whether the store is in this commission system or not. I would say they are even more likely to be in on it as it's their core business.

[@lacialovescats]

My bf got the same experience, but in different medium since he's a painter, and it wasn't the shop who tipped him with commission, it was the parents who were feeling very sorry for me 'cause bf actually cancelled our date on the spot to drag me along with them to the art store...😅

[@amadea429]

For the commission system, I imagine that's how it started. Shops realized they could get better sales of more expensive instruments if teacher recommended it, so they started offering commissions to teachers, to increase sales, but because the music teacher community is usually really small, ( I joined some bands in middle school, and everyone in my section (brass) knew everyone else teachers even though we'd all never met and were from different regions) teachers realized they had the power to profit from this by threats, telling students or other teachers that a shop is bad.

[@eiralinnea]

Somehow I'm most angry about the bow switch. Like ok, take commissions, sell a forgery, but... switch a kid's bow for another and lie to them when they notice? Like how dare they? How does a person like that sleep at night? (Like a baby, I assume, conscience isn't a feature on all humans, I know.)

[@cellycellycelly]

It really is disgusting on how the adult tricked a kid for an amount of money. I feel so bad

[@christianknuchel]

The worst part is how it teaches the kid to ignore its own mind, to be gaslit.

[@lucytaylor6246]

I have a story like Brett's. My Violin is a switched violin. Years ago my Mum took the violin she learnt to play on to get repaired. Then my Dad (who would not know one violin from another) picked it up. Due to family circumstances (and the fact my Mum had a better violin anyway) this violin was not looked at or played until a few years later. The when we played it again we realised it was NOT the original violin! Too many years had gone by to figure out what happened to the original one, but my mum gave this (switched) violin to me. There is no indication (serial number, maker etc) inside as to its origins. The switch could have been an accident, but still....pretty sus.

[@bonstabear2783]

I work at a brass and woodwind repair store and sometimes I come across fakes and it makes me sad because the parents come in being so hopeful about their purchase for their child. And having to tell them is heart breaking.

[@sapphicsfordoyo]

Weirdest thing was when I bought my latest violin from the seller, he recommended an expert to look at it to see if it was in good condition. The expert was like “yeah I’ve actually seen this violin a long time ago” but then LATER we found out that that expert was actually the OG maker...it was really strange but the violin sounds great so 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@melissameyer3716]

As a band teacher, fake instruments are all the rage. When I start beginner students, I have to warn parents about how to spot fake or unreliable instruments. I will never turn a kid away for having one, but I have to warn them that their instrument won't last more than 2 or 3 years.

[@mdlouie]

Disappointing. I played trumpet all through school, and was recently thinking of getting back into it. Was shocked at how many fake Bach trumpets there are for sale. Bad for everyone.

[@rubberduckyisgood5360]

May I know how to spot a fake or unreliable instrument (preferably a trumpet. I have a feeling mine is not legit.)

[@WhatAreFrogs]

Oof. This reminded me of a private violin student I had years ago. They were about 8 years old, complete beginner. I recommended they rent the instrument at that time because he will grow and then need to switch out the sizes until he can use a full size violin. Then if they feel so inclined, they can buy it (also want to note that I never received kick backs from shops I recommended and just now learned this was a thing from this video). Well next lesson the mom proudly shows me the violin she bought off *Amazon*. $50 for the ENTIRE setup including: violin, bow, shoulder rest, rosin, cleaning cloth, case. I was horrified and a few months later (and that’s being generous) I couldn’t tune it anymore because the cheap wood that was use made the holes of the peg box a little bigger each time the pegs were turned. So it got to a point where you’d try to tune with the pegs and the string would unravel. No amount of pushing helped. It was only then did she listen to me. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@mdlouie]

@@rubberduckyisgood5360 I'd start by contacting the supposed manufacturer to see if they're able to verify it.

[@melissameyer3716]

@@rubberduckyisgood5360 My rules are if it comes with gloves or you can buy it brand new for less than $500, it's junk.

[@sofiaoviedo9192]

When my sister started to learn how to play the violin, her teacher told her that he could sell her an instrument at a good price, just to talk to my parents so they could pay half of it first as a securing mechanism, and then when he gave us the violin the other half. My dad agreed because he thought the violin had a good price plus if it was recommended by the teacher it meant that it was at least a nice sounding violin. To not make the story long my dad payed him half of the money and the guy never brought us the violin, he would make up thousands of excuses on why he hadn't given us the instrument yet, to the point where my dad got fed up and went to talk to the principal at the school. Funny enough it wasn't the first time he had done this, and the authorities knew this and proceeded to do nothing about it and we never received our money back. This happened on the National School of Music at my country which gives independent courses for people who want to learn an instrument and then from 7th grade to 12ve grade it becomes an actual high school for aspiring musicians, where my sister now attends. She told me that as for today that guy still works at the school ( giving independent courses).

[@reinq_5584]

Oh my... if you dont mind, out of curiousity. what country is it?

[@1_atlas_7]

Man, that really sucks. Sadly, I don’t think the authorities can actually do anything. If there wasn’t some sort of contract or legally binding agreement, then no one can legally do anything. Since you (dad) technically just gave money to them, with your only safeguard being trust. Don’t know the laws perfectly, especially cause I don’t know what country your in, but you can’t really blame the authorities for not doing anything.

[@Carpatouille]

Should have told the principal and everyone about it, it's hard to believe no one would do something in this case seeing how expensive violins are and how unethical it is

[@aalabarces]

@@1_atlas_7 You don't need to have a contract if there are several cases of the same scam happening; maybe the first one was a misunderstanding or something, but second time it happens you do something about it. Any decent public institution would at the very least suspend the teacher in the case they couldn't fire him. And even if they couldn't do something the first time, you can blame them for not talking to the teacher and saying if it happens again, you're fired. But it most likely was a case of the teacher and authorities being friendly, or worst case being comploted.

[@sofiaoviedo9192]

@@reinq_5584 Honduras, my country unfortunately is very corrupt so it is pretty common to see behaviors like this in public institutions.

[@anabellik]

Wow, this is sick. And explains a lot. I once had a teacher who wanted me to buy an instrument from a shop they recommended. It was perhaps a good shop, but every instrument they offered was way too expensive for me. I told it to my teacher repeatedly, but they just didn't seem to understand and kept trying to persuade me. In the end, I purchased a second-hand instrument from somewhere else (not a shop). My teacher gave me a phone call as soon as they heard about it, and was absolutely furious, shouted at me for, like, half an hour, that they already promised the shop I would buy from them, that the thing I did will ruin their good relationship with the shop owner etc. I never understood why it would be a big deal, I mean, I'm sure lots of people consider buying from shops, but then change their mind and say no, isn't it common when you run a shop? On the other hand, if the teacher was promised to get a commission, the whole story suddenly starts to make sense.

[@yesfinallygot1]

that teacher is a terrible human being.

[@Rabbit0King]

OMG! I thought this was just something that happened at my school. My parents happened to buy from a different shop (my uncle recommended it) and the music teacher went off to the whole class about how we can't trust other shops and to only buy somewhere because they were affiliated with the school. The principal found ut and the teacher was terminated suddenly. The instructor had a few other shady things going on (like accepting parent bribes for auditions), but I always thought it was a really freak incident.

[@TerseFlyer185]

same, it was my elementary school (surprising right?). they told us only to buy/rent from one of two stores. i didn't realize at the time but there was totally something going on and now (with more experience) i know that they were overpriced.

[@preyankaridevidevyani9429]

These 2 are literally putting their career on the chopping block for us. May Ling Ling protect you two from the army of critics that are gonna butcher you guys worse than Vov Dylan, that piano kid and Ben Lee doing a record-breaking piano-violin duet of Flight of the Bumblebee.

[@osa313]

Do you even know the meaning of literally?

[@waltv9231]

This isn't something that could ruin their careers. They might be hurt if they sold instruments? But they don't, they make KZbin videos. They're fine.

[@preyankaridevidevyani9429]

@@osa313 I learned English before I learned my mother tongue, and I've studied in the English curriculum all my life, so yes I do. They are literally putting their careers on the chopping block because this video is a massive attack on the worst egomaniacs in the music industry and performing arts industry in general. It only takes one video like this to bring out critics from the woodwork like termites and try to spread false statements against B&E

[@andrewzhang8512]

@@preyankaridevidevyani9429 12 seconds ago wtf

[@abigail40]

@Kyuri L yes

[@elizabeths1051]

As a teacher, I was approached by a music company/luthier and offered a relationship like this. I politely declined. I would have felt totally shady going behind the backs of my students and their families. Plenty of students come and go, but often families of students become life long friends. Not to mention that although these instruments were beautiful looking, they sounded awful. I would have to listen to that daily. No thanks. 🙉

[@Bespelled22]

My parents bought my first violin from a “collector” for 200 dollars back in 1985. The label says “Lark” (aptly named) You can still buy them today fresh from China for around 60 bucks. As you can imagine, the tone is meek and it is barely playable. I gave up on violin until my late thirties when a friend let me play her 2000 dollar violin. I was blown away. I immediately went home and dug out the old Lark and for the first time I realized I had been done in. I bought a decent model from a local shop and began playing again. I can play well enough to accompany some folk tunes and its fun. I can’t help but wonder where I’d be if I hadn’t been discouraged by that terrible little squawk box.

[@balyenna8339]

7 years ago I bought my first violin. My teacher (who was very well known in the community) told me that the shop she recommended would give me a discount because she didn't take the so-called "commission" and instead asked that the commission money be taken from the price of the violin instead. Didn't think too much of it because I thought a "commission" was just normal - they did after all recommend a specific shop. Only realized now that many teachers could use this for their own advantage. I saved quite a sum from my violin thanks to that teacher. Beautiful violin who has aged with me quite nicely.

[@hevelyntewuh9351]

Petition for Brett and Eddy to make a video about them playing the violin for their parents or siblings Or even teacher

[@Rolph-sr2gx]

YESSS!!!

[@hevelyntewuh9351]

@@Rolph-sr2gx we need that shit

[@ep3798]

Agreed (for teacher)

[@Naokirii_77]

YESS PLS

[@jacobbass6437]

Or children?!?!?

[@abigail40]

dark secret of music industry in schools: sheet music: do not photocopy band directors: so anyways who still needs a copy?

[@keiratan6801]

“Don’t be shy, just tell me if you need one. I can run by the office real quick and make some more copies.”

[@sethra777]

In the US, when a school teacher purchases a score, a workbook, and even some textbooks and novels, there is often a copy allowment, so long as the copies are being made for the school that purchased it (or that the teacher works at) and that the copies go directly to the students FOR FREE. There are sometimes specific editions that are only sold to schools, and these are the ones that are allowed to be copied. Some textbooks and novels have a limit on how many copies you can make, but you can purchase the rights to make more. Not that anyone can track the number of copies, so they have to rely on the teacher understanding copyright law and then being ethical about it.

[@Purplecocoa5]

My orchestra teacher has to take back the copies and shred them after a performance, so the moment I get home after receiving a new piece, it gets photocopied.

[@spiritualsnail1584]

I love how in my school only the headmaster wants to respect the no photocoy rule, even though the printer is right outside his office 🤣

[@hannbebeeb]

My school has a violin that says Stradivarius on the inside and we asked the teacher about it and he was like “oh yeah we have all these fake violins”

[@minnieyuyantung]

do they contains fake steinway,fake non-strings instruments?I really want go to your school!

[@macwinter7101]

I have a violin that was only $2,000. The lady who ran the violin shop I bought it from was very honest and told me how there is a lot of unknowns about the origin of the violin. She knew a few details about its past, but not the full story. Yet despite the fact I don't know who made the violin, I love how it sounds and it is more valuable to me than violins that cost 10x as much with a different sound. I feel like we really need to start encouraging musicians to use their own sound preference when buying instruments, instead of just buying what they are told to.

[@abigail40]

twoset: talks about things seriously **everyone liked that** edit: petition for twoset podcast!

[@n.leitkepova]

I would just say: Twoset: *exists* *Everyone liked that*

[@abigail40]

@@n.leitkepova yessir :DDD

[@NadiahPuspita]

yes pls!!!

[@phil3008]

yesyes that would be very nicee!

[@rosilinlilia959]

me: press play to watch the video Me: closed my eyes to listen to the podcast😌

[@isabellawei4546]

As an adult beginner，I would like to say that the experience of buying a violin by myself last month was so exhausting that I didn’t even want to start learning it. It feels too bad to not trust anyone.

[@lightspaladin231]

I'm a cello student. Think I got a fairly decent sound from my cello. That is until my teacher played it and BOOM, sounded like a completely different instrument, she sounded so Much Better on the same instrument. Incredible resonance and nuance. We were both surprised, because I sounded bad on it usually. That said, the pros of bringing your teacher to the luthier and letting them play on the instruments, you, a novice, get the idea of the potential of each violin. The quality of sound you could get close to drawing out of each one with enough practice. Lets you decide which one you'd want to get. That sort of thing that going alone to the shop can't get you. I'd say, instead of cutting teachers out, cut them in for their expert playing and pay them for their time. I got my cello second hand from someone who used to play it, but teacher involvement would be something I'm up for if I were going to buy one from a shop.

[@isabellawei4546]

@@lightspaladin231 I did learn a lesson. Through this I also figured out that the value of instruments should be letting people enjoy and love music, but not how much it may cost.

[@mikanchan322]

@@lightspaladin231 absolutely! If I'm ever going to buy one I am planning on bringing my teacher and paying them for the time and advice. Another interesting point though: sometimes one instrument isnt better than the other but has a different sound quality. Some have sharper clearer tones, some sound softer and rounded. It also comes down to personal style and taste.

[@kingzuko]

Sama honestly! No one in my family plays and i don't even have a teacher, I'm just learning on my own, deciding what and where to buy it from was SO stressful. And even now, i have no idea if it sounds decent or not (idk anyone who could tell me). When I'll start taking lessons I'm pretty scared my teacher will go "uh actually that's a terrible violin"

[@Aaron-xq6hv]

One of the benefits of renting for long enough until you have the knowledge to buy yourself.

[@rinnamai8987]

Yes this is absolutely true. At a previous corporate job, I was encouraged to sell their instruments because I would get a commission. I had to tell parents over and over again these violins are overpriced and they sound awful compared to a proper violin at such price at a legitimate luthier shop. Unfortunately many students RENT their instruments, and did not want to lose their rental credits. As a result, I would spend hours looking for an acceptable violin at the corporate event - so that the parents at least are not paying top dollar for crap. This is why now I am working with a shop I truly believe in and they never ONCE offered me a commission system. If the instrument is good, then it is MY choice to talk about it.

[@raychapman6810]

My late grandfather's probably European violin has a fake Josef Gurnarius label inside, made a century or more ago. But, to my late grandfather's thirteen year old great-great granddaughter who discovered it in its dust covered, long forgotten case and now is learning to play it, it is genuinely a family heirloom. She wouldn't trade it for the world! And it sounds good, too!

[@yoshiyahu1770]

All these dislikes are the music teachers and scammers ruining musicians lives

[@J.R.Swish1]

Piano teachers where I live: Just buy a decent enough keyboard and if you really want to you can buy a piano in a few years 🤷‍♂️

[@cfromnowhere]

Piano gang feels that our teachers aren't that fishy. 😸😸😸

[@JohnSmith-bu2nm]

Get a newest Clavinova with GP Response Pedal. (or a CP4/CP88 with a pair of good monitor speakers) It will beat most uplift piano and you should not face any difficulty when switch to a real concert grand.

[@mdlouie]

Right? Of course, pianists have no choice but to play whatever instrument they're presented with. Never thought of that as an advantage until I saw this video...

[@boogerrrrr]

Lol the thing about pianos is that they aren't always going to be played by you, cuz you have to go to places which have better pianos, and makes getting commissions and convincing parents harder

[@Meijibby]

This is what my teacher said to me, I did get a keyboard because she wanted to to practice a lot

[@eprjct]

I'm so glad my instructor didn't do that. He's quite famous and he doesn't want us to be buying violins as a kid because kids constantly change violins. He use his student to pass around the violin. So basically because he has enough students he would just make us contact another student and buy theirs. How do we know he wasn't cheeting? Because we also sold ours to another student directly as well.

[@AliciaGuitar]

My dad, also a classical musician, warned me about bad instrument scams and taught me how to buy a good instrument. I love my dad!

[@michelleen158]

It's really upsetting how many scammers are out there. I never would have thought this would be an issue with classical music teachers of all people, just... wow. Thanks for brining some of this to light, Brett & Eddy.

[@Carpatouille]

You're not ready to know what happens with doctors and the health industry in general then, this world can be a dark place let me tell you

[@ryanong3517]

Uh, because it's not a scam? How do you think the person who finds a mortgage for your house, sells you insurance, websites who find you cheap flights, etc. get paid? They get referral fees. Honestly, I can't comprehend why anyone would be shocked by this, or even consider it bad.

[@anukipasqual9156]

@@ryanong3517 That's alright because both parties know and agree to the referral fees. In this case though, the teachers try to forcibly get a commision from the shop when the shop doesn't want to, when the teacher didn't even recommend that shop.

[@McCRBen]

@@ryanong3517 Getting a small commission is one thing, doubling the price of an instrument is another.

[@lucytaylor6246]

@MichelleEN- I completely agree. Once my mum took her old violin (a pretty basic one to be fair) to get repaired, and my Dad (who knows nothing at all about violins) picked it up. Due to family circumstances, it was forgotten about for a few years, but when it was played again we realised it was not the original violin my mum learnt to play on. It had been swapped, we don't know weather it was by accident or on purpose however too much time had passed to ever work out what happened to the original violin. This is the violin I play on today- I have know idea where it came from, there's not even an indication inside as to it's origins.

[@Claireee-ju3sp]

I didn’t know Brett and eddy were secretly Sherlock and John solving the mysteries of the violin cartel, I’m intrigued

[@booksandmusic2526]

Brett would be John and Eddy would be Sherlock cuz most of the times Eddy explains everything in a very detailed manner and Brett hears him out patiently.

[@ciaratambongco8406]

@@booksandmusic2526 and the height difference too /lh

[@booksandmusic2526]

@@ciaratambongco8406 true true

[@murdermcmurderface]

I’m Twoset-locked

[@doyoufeel...thatyoulackcri6760]

_"And we would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky 2set"_

[@CocoAzoitei]

I would love you guys to do a video about the best modern violin makers around the world! That would be so useful. I would like to get a modern instrument but I’m too scared to be left with something I can’t sell on or that wouldn’t develop once it’s played in.

[@matthewv789]

I think the story about not being able to duplicate the sound of Stradivarius is made up BS intended to drive up the price. There is a study where highly skilled violinists tried a variety of violins without knowing which was which, with an audience. On average, both the violinists on stage and the audience in the hall preferred the sound and projection of the modern instruments. The bonus of buying a modern instrument is you can financially support a skilled craftsperson of today, and even form a relationship with them where they can adjust the instrument to your taste, or build one specially for you.

[@quach8quach907]

It doesn't make sense that students of violin makers would not improve on their teachers over time.

[@cloudberry7241]

''If you are musician, listen to this video.'' Well i wiill listen anyway...

[@ipsharoy7398]

You are a good non-musician, thank you

[@divyadharshini2325]

Sameee

[@angelmistiii]

This is even good for non-musicians to know.

[@cloudberry7241]

@@ipsharoy7398 I guess you are a good musician, thank you.^^

[@DupaChunner]

Fake instruments: exists TwoSetViolin: “kinda sus, vote them off”

[@parmiggianoreggie-ano1832]

Kinda sus, resolve please. Ok, that was bad

[@etienneleroux6253]

Holy cow.. I was literally thinking about buying a new violin recently. Haven't played since my high school days. Back then, I had a cheapie which served me well enough but I reached a point where, no matter how hard I tried, I could not get my violin to sound like the rich kids' instruments sounded. That was one of the main reasons I just gave it up. Knowing that I would never sound as nice as the others that had the really pricey instruments made it difficult to stay motivated to practice. Anyways, I've seriously been looking into buying a richer sounding violin (no pun intended) and have felt overwhelmed by the prices out there. Some really expensive instruments don't sound much better than the less expensive ones. Such a huge variety out there and so many websites. Very thankful for this video as I could have easily fallen into some of the traps mentioned in your vid. The question I have, though.. How does one - not currently connected to a music teacher (I'm in a new country) - go about buying a new violin? Simple as going to a music store and asking? How trustworthy are they if even teachers are willing to abuse trust for a quick buck?

[@ChouMyLan]

I would personnally rent the instrument first and relearn to play with a teacher and see afterwards if I want to buy the instrument. You can also ask if you can try the instrument for a certain ammount of time (usually one week) and show it to different specialists for opinions

[@beni9129]

I took violin lessons when I was young and my first teach was a somewhat, highly rated teacher in the area. I was too young to remember this, but apparently she tried to get my parents to buy a starter violin worth about $800, for $1500 from a shop about 3 hours away. It seemed sketchy to my mom, however she took me over there anyway and we tried out the instrument. It was certainly a scam and luckily my mom, who was a violinist noticed, but I doubt any average person would have known any better. I never continued violin after that, we tried to find other good teachers in the area, but we were "conveniently" turned down because all of them were "booked". Nowadays I play classical guitar and I've been learning piano, way less scandalous.

[@nayarasouza678]

Me, a pharmacist, listening the guys talking about commission in music industry : Wait, what?

[@TheRflynn]

Pharma industry has plenty of juicy stuff also, depending on country,

[@nayarasouza678]

@@TheRflynnYes, exactly ... I am surprised that this also happens in the music industry

[@tomzhang8675]

🤣🤣

[@lunaestoile3580]

I feel that Eddy had lots of fun researching on it. On a side note, I really appreciate how Twoset takes care of the violin community. You can truly sense their genuineness

[@yuzudreams]

omg I think this is SO helpful for anyone who's buying a new violin (upgrade etc). During the time when I went hunting for a violin upgrade, few shops would ask "who's your teacher" but the biggest violin store we have here, none of the staffs EVER asked me who's my teacher. I went around a few shops testing violins of similar "priced" range. Note i said "priced" because some shops DONT EVEN HAVE A PRICETAG ON THAT VIOLIN THEY PICKED FOR YOU SO IT WAS REALLY SUS. I almost got one of the violin from the smaller store which didn't have pricetag, had a sus owner who talks really well, and claims to have a luthier from czech. It was the first store i went, starting my violin hunt and spoiling my ears because obviously the violins all sound better than my $200 first violin at home. Kinda liked the sound, was told its a french. Looked at the label and it looked like an imitation JTL logo. After going through MANY trips to different stores with similar price ranges, I started to really hear/compare and realise that it sounded like there's a huge problem because the strings DO NOT sound balanced and I can't seem to get power out of it when I need to. It sounded like a sick violin.. But anyway, happy ending, I got my current french century-old JTL baby, from the bigger/well-known store here. The store's been around for many years and has a good reputation so I'd say I can trust them on the pricing even if my judgement sucks regarding whether if the violin is worth the price. But I'm satisfied to have paid the price for this baby's sound so I'm a happy violinist now :) ALWAYS COMPARE AROUND IF YOU'RE NOT SURE..!

[@yuriokada9438]

I‘m shocked to hear about the commission scam! I’m a harpist and I‘ve never heard of anything like that. The harp community is quite supportive (at least as far as my experience goes), and prices are quite transparent. The internet is full of videos and recommendations for harps, so even a parent who doesn’t know much about music or harps would be able to get a basic idea of which brands are good and trusted. Most harp manufacturers have a price list on their website and while prices can vary slightly depending on where you get your harp from or if you’re importing your instrument from overseas, you still kinda know what to expect in terms of price. I’ve never met an untrustworthy harp teacher or know anyone who has been scammed by their teacher but even if a parent or student had concerns about the price or quality of an instrument, there’s always a way to get more information from an independent source.

[@bramvanreusel4687]

This kind of dealership (commisions) is illegal in my country. Back in the day this díd happen my dad told me and all teachers that were caught got fired. Not only did they get fired, they also lost permission to teach in ANY musicschool anywhere in the country for the rest of their lives. In a timespan of 10 years this entirely dissappeared because the risk for the teacher was just too high. Im glad our country was able to deal with this issue, and i hope other countrys will find a way to solve it as well.

[@JohnSmith-bu2nm]

Which country are you in?

[@bramvanreusel4687]

@@JohnSmith-bu2nm belgium

[@JohnSmith-bu2nm]

@@bramvanreusel4687 There is another guy in German in the comment mentioned the similar laws against collecting commissions. Europe indeed is superior in this field.

[@elodiemarie3241]

@Richard Wagner Its probably falls under labor laws and policies with schools. Similar to how cops are not supposed to accept gratuities in the united states.

[@puchuchan8020]

@Richard Wagner pretty sure that in basically all of Europe, you have to explicitly disclose that you get a commission if you promote a product of some kind. Same as how influencers are required by law to state when a video is sponsored/paid for. You're not allowed to pass something you're earning money off of as an "unbiased opinion".

[@namewithheldbygoogleforsec673]

That's why it is better to buy the musical instrument first, then look for a teacher, and NOT mention where the instrument was bought from. Just say it was a birthday/Christmas gift from someone, and they won't say from where the bought it. Then there will be no commission for the teacher. Then look around and find other teachers and see how much they charge, to see if the first teacher upped the cost of the lesson to "get" the commission she would have got from whoever you bought the instrument. Do this with all teachers you look for, and choose the best available, and the one whom appeals to you more.

[@kitochristo]

Just saying, but some teachers instead of taking commission (with the store they are connected to), tells their students they get 10% off or how much the teacher gets from the commission, when they tell they are recommended from their teacher.

[@namewithheldbygoogleforsec673]

@@kitochristo, yes, I know, but I was saying if you don't want a teacher to get a commission its better to buy the instrument first. Some shops increase the price of the instrument by 10% or whatever percentage a teachers gets as commission.

[@alicegammill-beck6646]

And, if you have the time, go look in estate sales for your instrument, especially ones at bigger houses. I found my current cello at an estate sale for under 100 usd (the appraiser didn't know much about instruments). I brought it to my teacher and repairman, and they thought it would be a decent student instrument. It turned out to have a beautiful sound. Also, if you find something but it's a little out of your price range, ask if there's any flexibility in the price.

[@rachaelword9887]

That only works if you know a reputable shop before you obtain a teacher. I had to ask my son's teacher where to buy a violin because I had no idea where to go.

[@namewithheldbygoogleforsec673]

@@rachaelword9887 there are other ways. Years ago you could look in the yellow pages. Now, you can look up shops on the internet, and try many shops to get price variations.

[@corriemccalla3141]

Whilst my mum was being taught cello 45 odd years ago at around the age of 15 she used my great grandfathers cello and bow which was owned by my grandfather and handed down to her. On her last lesson the teacher swapped out her bow for a crappy look alike and my mum didn't realise until started playing again a few years later. Being worth a few hundred pounds back in the 50s i can only imagine what it would be worth now. The horrible things people will do sometimes in the name of greed is truly appalling. i suppose the musical world is no different. be well and Stay vigilant folks

[@BlakeByrneMusic]

😥

[@ajvaldez42]

Finally, a video for which I can be useful for! As a chemistry major, my favorite class was Analytical Instrumentation, which is how to use manchines to analyze the structure of the sample. I remember our professor gave us a challenge to find a way to date, analyze and authenticate a priceless piece of art and how we would go about it. The authentication part just really made me think of creating a third party company to authenticate the actual value of a violin and create a standard that can be used by stores. Stores using them can then be trusted to be selling actual prices. The whole thing with the commission is a legal matter altogether. That should be checked by an actual government agency.

[@raxsour2938]

Brett and Eddy are making serious videos these days and I’m here for it

[@alunashepard9031]

It's a difficult issue: As a former choir student, I was VERY attached to my choir directors and to the school band directors- even if they were upfront that "hey, if you go to this shop for x, I get a kickback", I would feel pressured to go the shop they mentioned. If I played an instrument and I knew I could get better somewhere else, I'd have still gone to the recommended shop out of "loyalty" to my teacher...

[@alunashepard9031]

As an adult, I know better. I'd go with what was best for me to learn. But as a child/teen with non-musician parents? ESPECIALLY when the parents aren't going to put in the time to do the research? They'd probably tell me "go with what your teacher told you, they know best".

[@lunchbucket2494]

@@alunashepard9031 IKR. Such a dilemma. But hey, at least your directors were transparent about it.

[@yfzhou8074]

At least they were transparent about it! The only commission I think we ever paid for was my sister's guitar and we bought it directly from the music academy. I do voice, so...no one can get a commission out of my voice haha and my teacher just tells me to go find the teaching material myself (Panofka, Concone, aria anthologies) as long as it contains the works she wants me to study, she's fine with it. Gotta admit, we're humans. I would try and do the beneficial thing for my teachers since as far as I'm aware, they're good people. I do competitions and my teacher could probably have me sign up through her and get the commission but she doesn't, so I guess that gives her some credibility.

[@xiangli3688]

So true about the commission. I haven’t even imagined that this could be an international practice or phenomenon. I only knew this happens in China cuz my teacher has told me that there is this “rule”. I now understand how lucky I am to have such a good teacher as she is. She actually spoke to the seller that she didn’t want this “commission” and asked him to sell me the violin at the price without this commission thing in it.

[@NatJediMASTER]

Luthier here! Commissions for teachers can be absolutely crazy. The shop I work at actually doesn’t give commissions to many teachers, only ones we know really well. We have absolutely had teachers bad mouth our shop just because we didn’t want to give them a commission. We have had a few teachers refuse to take commissions and we will go absolutely above and beyond for those teachers because it’s just so nice to see teachers that are pushing for a more ethical buying experience for their students. I personally don’t really mind that some teachers want to make a little money for taking the extra time to work with a shop and help make a sale, but it has to be done openly and ethically. Also avoid buying instruments directly from teachers. From my experience, you could be paying at least twice what the instrument is actually worth. I’m glad you guys made this video so people are at least aware. Faking instruments is just a whole other can of worms. If nothing else, most shops should have a trail period available and you can take the instrument to other experts during that period. I would not mention where you got the instrument from when taking it to the other experts though. People in this business can be unbelievably petty and if they know the instrument is from a shop/person that they don’t like/is their competition, they will say the instrument is crap just so they can possibly sell an instrument from their shop instead.

[@ancapatrascu1545]

I have a curiosity - if these things happen in small communities, is it possible at least to spread thr word about these teachers who do this? It sounds like things just get kept entirely quiet, i am thinking some reputational damage might make the teachers a bit more aware.

[@skyblue2708]

"commission" sounds more like extortion tbh.

[@sethra777]

Agreed

[@hillaryburdick9313]

Agreed!!

[@hyde4004]

Yup, feels like mafia protection money more than anything.

[@hironyx]

i think all parents who put their children in music classes, especially violin classes need to watch this video. they need to be able to research on prices and reputation of the shops in order not to get scammed by slimey teachers.

[@endodouble6691]

My music school lets you rent an instrument and that's what I did, but when I bought one for myself I didn't ask my teacher for advice.

[@graham7276]

It's actually sad, that you can't trust your teachers. Because honestly, in most cases they really know better what instrument would be best for a student.

[@andreaartoni4508]

Thank you guys for talking about this, being a trained luthier in italy i can confirm that those are not just rumors. Teacher's will often ask for commission and will talk bad about your work if you refuse to pay them. Also, shops that offer certificates take a commission based on the value of the instrument, so i guess that sometimes they push the boundaries of what could be an expensive original instrument. However i also need to tell you that there are also some very nice and honest people in this trade, that really care about giving the best service to their customers!

[@raidedcluster]

Yes I've heard that the industry is very violint. Don't fiddle with them.

[@authoreyes101]

Did you just...

[@abigail40]

@@authoreyes101 could u not handel it XD

[@ParrotQueenPlays]

😂

[@authoreyes101]

@@abigail40 this violates all pun boundaries 😂

[@kirakira_san]

Dear god. This community is amazing

[@charlottem9422]

Dark secrets of the violin industry: Eddy and Brett and actually being held hostage by Editor Chan

[@abigail40]

**gasp**

[@PFC2018]

The twist!

[@choonieyen]

Wait thats illegal

[@rickelvi]

I love their comedic stuff but it's so good to see this channel address serious problems and use their platform to try and make the industry a better place

[@myotiswii]

My musicschool occasionally sold instruments, but they were alsways really nice deals. It was more like "We want to replace a smaller marimba for a bigger and more expensive one, so we will store the smaller instrument until someone wanted to buy one anyway and sell it for like half the price (and if it was damaged even less)". They were really transparent about it so it was great. These instruments don't really lose any value at all, you can resell them for nearly their new price, and they never had bought any bad instruments for their price since they really cared.

[@TrickArrow]

They mentioned when Brett's bow got switched out. As someone who does electronic repairs, I can say that happens to people's phones and consoles, etc. Too. If anyone reading this takes their stuff in for repairs to a shop, take pictures of what your device looks like before hand. Doesn't matter how well known/ trusted the shop is. Stay safe friends ✌

[@jameshandaja1536]

This should be pinned to the top

[@pauldeck4500]

"take pictures of what your device looks like before hand" and make a few small scratches or marks on it somewhere so it's unique.

[@akishio4026]

That is extremely awful. Just imagining the musician tricked by these people. Its great TwoSet is using their platform to spread awareness and educate people on the issue.

[@simplyforstrings]

Thank you for sharing this video. Here at Simply for Strings, we're proud to have never engaged in secret commissions - and we never will. We really value the input the teacher provides during the purchase of instruments, but we strongly believe that commissions could end up negatively impacting the player, which is certainly something we don't want. Luckily, our community of teachers here in Brisbane work closely with us at Simply for Strings to ensure every player finds the sound they love, at a budget that suits them best. Win win!

[@utezahn3174]

Thanks for bringing this up. The commissions issue has been dogging small violin shops for a long time. The best thing would be for all shops in an area to band together and refuse to pay commissions (which sometimes happens). As a violin maker, I tell parents looking to buy an instrument to pay the teacher for their time when helping to choose, same as they would for a lesson. As far as antiquing an instrument, a lot if makers do it because a lot of musicians associate “old” with “good” and would not want to be seen with a contemporary looking violin. As long as the instrument is honestly labeled and sold, this is not a problem - it’s just a matter of personal preference.

[@SolSlayer]

I'm almost positive my HS director got a cut from a local suit store where she pushed hard for us to buy all our concert clothing from.

[@keiratan6801]

I’m also pretty sure that my middle school orchestra teacher got a commision from a local violin shop after she recommended it to us and reminded us about that shop multiple times, telling us how good it is. If she did, I feel so betrayed because she’s such a nice, cool teacher. Everyone likes her, and she’d probably be the favorite teacher of the school

[@whatevermatewhatevermate6638]

Once when I was in youth orchestra there was a kid who needed help tuning his viola. When the teacher looked at it she was like "this is actually a violin with viola strings on it", and gave it back to him

[@jackraiden6180]

haha! XD TwoSet needs to see this comment!

[@chloeeeee722]

That is just awful. To think someone paid for that

[@ssummerrtimeee]

Happy birthday, Eddy! Thanks for all of your devotion and for bringing classical music to a wider audience and that’s to both of you! We as the two set community loves you and we’ll encourage you to continue doing what you love ❤️

[@vhl333]

I love these chats!! Thank you so much for looking out for us and always doing your best to make the world a better place!!

[@magsorrell13]

Omg! I teach at a middle school and our band teacher got contacted by a former band parents who wanted to be the “sellers” for band program and the band program would earn a cut of the profit. Luckily my band director looked at the list of instrument brands they were offering and she didn’t know any of them and the few she knew are awful, cheap brands. They didn’t know anything about instruments but they swore these instrument brands were top notch! They were taking what you guys are talking about and trying to make it into a larger practice and make money off of students and parents who are trying to buy “quality” at a cheaper price.

[@f52_yeevy]

Dark Secrets of the Violin Industry: Violins disguised as violas get sold as the only good-sounding violas in the world

[@carmellabalugo6158]

Your content is definitely growing and expanding as you expose things about your profession. Kudos!

[@libertyjensen5241]

I remember when my band director sent a bunch of our school instruments to be repaired (and there aren’t many repair people near my area), and the guy straight up stole a couple clarinets and a flute. My director tried to get them back, but he couldn’t do much.

[@chelseamawarsharon2885]

Dark Secrets of Violin Industry: *using oil instead of rosin*

[@howimettheopera]

Also: I lately read that Paganini used to buy violins and resell them more expensive because it was coming from the one and only Paganini. 200 years later and not much has changed

[@MDeadcloud]

Never have I been more glad I play trombone

[@MDeadcloud]

In addition to it being less of a problem with wind instruments (at least in regards to the swapping, price gouging, faking, etc.), it probably also helps that I live in Europe, where Thomann exists

[@bridgetscott5785]

Never have I been more glad that I sing

[@pietro93vit]

Here in italy the secret commission is so used, in all kind of big and small markets, that we have a word and a specific crime for it, its Pizzo, and its also a tabù