Why MANGA has outsold COMICS. The rise of eastern manga and the pathetic decline of western comics.

#japan #anime #manga
#english #japanese
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[@eviscerations]

I've commented before about this but my friend Raya Golden works for George R R Martin, and adapted like 5 books from his old works - released her last book a few months ago actually. Those are much more akin to a graphic novel as they're straight up adapted from his old screenplays, and you could kind of look at them like storyboards almost, and they read like that, despite having been adapted to another medium. That's what i like about manga. When i got into berserk, I got into it because of the art, but also because of the half hour episodic anime series adaptation. In that way, I think that's partly why manga has become so popular in the west; the accessibility of anime has greatly improved here in the states, and the popular stuff is often drawn from manga sources. Manga are done in such a way that it's pretty easy to visualize them in an animated adaptation, even if an anime doesn't exist for them - something you don't really get looking at western comic panels very much. Largely, the stories are convoluted or difficult to follow without acquiring a large collection of books, and the artwork isn't special or anything, so what's the draw? The cover art maybe? A lot of the marvel stuff now is just... ugh... and dc? Just look at their film catalogue alone, it's so bad. The Aquaman "dudebro" thing needs to go away asap. and it's so full of political messaging based on whoever is writing these comics, and movies. It's permeating the superhero video game space too - just look at SS: Kill The Justice League. it's called escapism, for a reason. People go to the movies or watch tv shows or read these books because they want to get away from that shit. We just want good stories... There's a channel here on youtube, Nerdrotic, who does a weekly podcast with another youtuber, HeelsVBabyface, and while somewhat often things devolve into a lot of identity politics bullshit, Gary and Az are very well versed in the comic industry. Gary has run a comic store for a long time and attends all the conventions - if you listen to what he says, and I believe him, the comic industry is not likely to recover anytime in the near future, if ever. The damage has been done. the number of active readers and buyers who regularly buy those books just continues to drop in favor of manga. Sorry for the long winded rant.

[@unrested]

Yeah we go to the fantasy stuff to escape the BS political fights constantly going on in America not to be beaten over the head by more of them

[@OmegaKatanaXIII]

Let say this manga is easy to get into because volume 1 the story has a beginning and a end no freaking reboots after 10 years.

[@unrested]

Exactly

[@RicardoCon94]

At my local B&N manga has overtaken the general comics section. Western comics had a small shelf in the last couple of years until just recently, its just not really there anymore. Manga has a whole section that wraps around a big part of the store. The store even has displays around the store of the most popular manga and recent releases. Back in 2010 manga just had a small row of shelves meanwhile Western comics had a bigger section. Its wild to me how much has changed. The last Western comic ive ever read was the Blair Witch comics from the 90s and thats it. Everyone I know are fully aware that i dont like sports but a manga Slam Dunk somehow managed to make me like basketball. The author managed to make basketball popular in Japan when barely anyone played it before the manga began publication.

[@unrested]

I use to only read horror manga and now slice of life and cheesy romance novels have reeled me in somehow

[@Mcgturtle3]

Snotgirl is the only comic that isn’t superhero based that I can think of or seen in a really long while

[@unrested]

Never heard of it I’ll have to check it out

[@captainpazuzu]

"Why manga is crushing comics?" - Because its WAY better.

[@unrested]

True

[@Jekyll_Jackal]

While you're at it check out Bande Dessinée, French graphic novels. At the height of the lockdowns 1 in every 4 books sold in France was a BD book.

[@unrested]

I’ll definitely check it out!

[@StarBreak]

BDs are awesome! Read a bunch since I was a kid. I believe France and Japan have had a strong cultural exchange since the 70s/80s. France seems to have adopted manga and anime more so than the US back then, so it's not such a big surprise to see mature French comics. But, that's only my assumptions. Also, there were a bunch of jointly produced anime/cartoons in the 80s like The Mysterious Cities of Gold.

[@SeroCloud]

Speaking of manga and comics, how are you doing with yours? Last i heard you were introducing the massive world you were building along with the many types of inhabitants. Kinda got curious interested after looking at the illustrations hanging at the back of the room.

[@unrested]

I work on at least 1 part of the lore a day whether it’s making a new monster, location or item drawn out and described. Now the question is what am i gunna do with it all? Not sure about that. Maybe compile it at some point and try to make a book.

[@SuitUpDubstep]

As a gay man, I fully agree with you on the hollywood/marvel/dc stuff. All their reboots just to make characters gay and having that be such a focus makes it feel like they are just going "oh look how accepting we are of you, pat us on the back and consume product!" It comes across as forced and it's so god damn reductive as if we're only gay and nothing else. Like we're some kind of brave and bold political statement. We're just people who work our jobs, have hobbies and just happen to be gay. Honestly, it feels more insulting than anything that they're doing all this. Manga and anime has it right, the characters are just normal people who happen to be within the LGBTQ+ umbrella. I see it like this, in manga and anime there's true lgbtq+ representation. In hollywood/marvel/dc etc. there's a forced representation. Anime/manga treats us like human beings, hollywood treats us as politics.

[@unrested]

Yeah if Hollywood, and media in general ever wants to truly embrace lgbtq+ communities then they will make them part of their own communities without making a big deal about it. It being announced as a shout out makes a mockery of something that should be a background aspect of stories to create normalcy.

[@pedroguerrero3862]

For me I very much think is largely due to the huge variety when to comes to stories, manga can be basically about anything, it can be political, or sexual, or comedy, etc. People are tired of reading the same character that basically have been the same for the past what? 90 years.

[@unrested]

Exactly!!

[@jerfacekilla]

Damn, I'm so old I remember when comics were 25 cents

[@Naturenerd1000]

Anime colorizes manga which makes it more popular.

[@unrested]

Good point!

[@boris1387]

I'm a huge creepshow fan and there is new comics available. I also love horror comics, night of the living dead, universal monsters and godzilla.... And the classics, batman /punisher. I've recently started ghost in the shell as I'm a big fan of the movies /anime too

[@unrested]

I’ve read a lot of the old creepshow. Watched all the movies and even the new show on shudder which I gotta say has been quite good. I’m glad to hear it’s still going as a publication. I honestly wish there was more good horror like the stuff Garth Ennis puts out or splatter punk like Uber. The Russian comic version of song of saya was the last really good color comic in horror I read

[@user-ob1sk7zz1e]

A comic book artist once shared on twitter how much he makes monthly from comic book sales... I don't remember the exact numbers, just that the printing took a lot of the revenue... So PROBABLY comic book artists make less because of color printing :// Edit: ...but now that I think about it, they probably try to make more revenue by publishing fewer pages at a time. (24 page floppies, lol...)

[@unrested]

It’s hard to make a living as a comic artist these days. Rare they survive without some sort of gofundme

[@bofbob1]

Alack Sinner, Nestor Burma. There are a few decent crime graphic novels in the Western "genre". Not all that many though, for sure. The most recent "big" one is probably Blacksad. A kind of noir detective story with a chain-smoking panther as the protagonist. Nothing too fancy, but it's solid storytelling. If you're tired of all the US superhero stuff, you might want to look into the European industry. A few recs: Enki Bilal's Nikopol trilogy (kind of midway between American Gods and Blade Runner), Regis Loisel's Peter Pan (one of the GOATs IMHO. Pretty raw, with some pretty heavy themes, and goddamn Tinker Bell is a cool character lol), Alan Moore's From Hell was pretty good, Manu Larcenet's "Le combat ordinaire" is really good but not sure if it has been translated into English yet. It's about a retired war photographer struggling with everyday life. Also quite a bit of back and forth between Europe and Japan. E.g. just look up a few panels from Moebius's "Arzach" and you'll see right away where Miyazaki got his ideas for Nausicaä. What's kind of funny is that there's often a disconnect between who's popular in Japan and who's popular in Europe. E.g. Jiro Taniguchi was huge (well "huge", to the extent that any author of graphic novels can be huge...) in Europe for a while. Summit of the Gods, A Distant Neighborhood. He was raking in awards left and right. None of my Japanese friends seem to know who he is. ^^ It is weird though that the superhero genre just doesn't exist in Europe. I mean, the American imports are popular, for sure, but AFAIK there aren't any European superheros. Feels like people would just laugh you out of the room if you tried to create one tbh.

[@unrested]

There are few small indies I follow such as principles of necromancy and a few other ultra grim dark pieces but I really struggle to commit when it’s 4-8 dollars for 16 pages

[@CubanDre]

This was a good watch, I was into comics when I was a kid, saving up 5 bucks to get a comic book was the struggle, then read a single comic in less than 10 mins. Then when college hit in 2000, anime really popped off for me. I found manga scanlations and was hooked. I mean hell Yakitate Japan got me into cooking and Initial D got me into cars. Those comic books inspired nothing

[@unrested]

Good point on the inspiration aspect!

[@Ninjakees]

Hey Unrested, Is the JR pass still worth it? [ If you visit a few places like: Start in Fukuoka (Stay a few days, Visit Kumamoto, Nagasaki) > Hiroshima (Stay a night) > Osaka (few days with places like Nara, Kyoto) > Tokyo (few days, some places around Tokyo) End. ]

[@unrested]

Hmmmm yeah I suppose if you are gunna go that hardcore on travel it’s worth it but holy hell you are gunna be tired

[@Ninjakees]

Yeah it's a time span of about 3 and a half weeks. A few main bases (Fukuoka 6 days, Hiroshima 2 days, Osaka 5-6 days, Tokyo 7 days ) and then travel around those places a bit. Like with Osaka to Kyoto and Nara. Yeah I expect to get tired xD Maybe less vs everyday a new sleeping place, when having a main base to sleep. Thanks for your response Unrested🙏

[@darkangel8068]

what do you feel about your old videos when you look at them?

[@unrested]

Most are pretty cringe. Some I’m still really proud of. I’m just happy that I have a huge library that stretches back. It’s fun to look back at the past 15-16 years and show it to my kids as well. Maybe the videos will even exist after I die. That would be cool.

[@John-uz3yu]

What was the Philippines movie that you are talking about? I believe you said, "The Leader", but I can't find anything about it in Google.

[@unrested]

Deleter

[@John-uz3yu]

@@unrestedThank you.

[@0Ninja0Dude0]

Lol does Savage Dragon count as true crime😅 My favorite niche comic is probably the Metalocalypse Dethklok series or anything by Jhonen Vasquez like Johnny the Homicidal maniac altho cant say ive touch a comic in the last decade or so. One thing I've always found odd is how comic series will change hands like how many publishers has Constantine been under? Best manga cross over has to be the Toriko, one piece, and Dragonball cross overs nothing better than watching your protagonist engorge themselves on food 😂. Manga over all has such a great power of taking you through so a wide range of emotions but idk if i would ever be caught dead reading a western slice of life, isekai, harem comic but the japanese just make that work somehow

[@unrested]

Dethklok was such a good series brings back some great memories

[@jaysato]

Only thing challenging to dive to is Jojo no kimyo na bouken lol

[@unrested]

You just need to let Jojo take you…

[@YELLOWHEADlv3]

Hey man to let you know there is a huge presence of anime power scaling community. There people that talk about their top 30 all time for 12 plus hours lol.

[@unrested]

12 hours?! Yikes I don’t think I could hack It.

[@Hito343]

The reason I don't care much about western comics is that it's mostly just superhero stuff which is not really my thing. I would like to read western Chi no Wadachi, Homunculus or Monster but it doesn't exist. (At least I think so.) Psychological - Mystery.

[@marocat4749]

ots online, but kubera the last god is, that genre, and good, and mangadex gas better translation than webtoon. I just mention it because, yeah great mystery and its good if slow burn, ok.

[@Hito343]

That stuff doesn't look western tho, it's Korean no? Ty for the recommend anyway I'll check it out.

[@unrested]

Omg blood on the tracks was sooooo good. Have you read flowers of evil? If not you might like that too. It’s such an amazing series

[@Hito343]

Oh yes really good. I really like Oshimi's work so I've probably read most of his stuff apart from some oneshots maybe. Really looking forward to his next cooking. If you haven't read you can check out Inside Mari, it's not what it sounds like haha. (However not as good as those two.)

[@taimalik1110]

Midnight Diner is a manga?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[@unrested]

Yeah it was a manga first before its adaptation

[@codeninja100]

No one wants to read about the same 12 superheroes rehashed again and again. Marvel and DC have milked these characters dry and dug their own grave. If they were to try to operate like the manga industry at this point they'd go bankrupt. Only way I could see them making a comeback is to be a little more lenient with their biggest properties. A horror Spider Man series, a slice of life Wolverine series. Its literally the only avenue these properties could go down that's new and refreshing.

[@unrested]

Yeah gotta agree. A single good series here or there over the decade is fine, but 3-5 reboots on the same character simply cause it’s a safe investment leads to zero creativity

[@marocat4749]

egatoive legends, is a good bean The week i review's youtube channel has good recommendations regardiang less big horror recomendations, apearently korea has a lot too. Disagree with the male coded sucess too, like sailor moon the series, inuyasha, are shoujo/shounen mixes. hell even ranma, is a romcom. Seriously there are even in shouned isle that. Fruits basket. And the whole bl are female audience as focus group. Ther is plenty primary female oriented. I know in reality the audience usually is mixed, but as target audoence, i love good romance. Ok but its surprisingly easy to redo naruto as bl, as the whole big lovestory of naruto and sasuke already is there, very overt. You would even have to change very little.

[@unrested]

Egatoive legends huh? Ok I gotta check that out I am always up for more recommendations

[@Rationalific]

I can't say that I've bought many manga (I don't buy many reading materials in general), but regarding comic books & Hollywood VS manga & anime, I have gone with the latter and have not looked back... And I started this process over 2 decades ago. Now, it's to the point that I don't need to watch another Hollywood movie in my entire life, or ever read an American comic book again. There are way better things from Japan. I just hope that the US and the West (and the evil and greedy corporations) don't destroy Japanese artwork. Being out of the loop, I'm not sure if Superman is gay, black, or trans, or all three at once, and I don't much care. I've washed my hands of it. I'll watch Japanese anime with people attracted to the same sex, like "I'm in Love with the Villainess" or "My New Boss Is Goofy" because they are telling a story, rather than trying to brainwash me with a culturally Marxist message. Imagine that. Focusing on a story rather than brainwashing. And all of the other far superior traits of manga/anime like good art, one good story, based on one writer and one artist (even if an anime is worked on by many artists, they keep it consistent), and so much more mean that the only thing that modern comic book companies deserve is bankruptcy. I don't want to see them come back. I want to see them go bankrupt and never return...and not buy and ruin foreign companies through imperial corporate predation. They need to go bye-bye and never return. They can save their marketing dollars. They will never attract me ever again...not even if they went back to 13 cents like they used to be.

[@unrested]

Agreed. In 2023 I don’t think I watched a single Hollywood movie. I watched a few horror movies from Asia and a 2-3 anime series and a streaming show and that’s about it. Every trailer I see come out of Hollywood my question is always the same. “Who is this for?”

[@Rationalific]

@@unrested 👍

[@harukaru84]

I think the complain about comics being rebooted and the characters are suddenly gay, is blown out of proportion. and those complaining also at the same breath attack comics that started with lgbtq+ characters. it is the same how superman's bestie jimmy olsen has been a black guy in recent years. the same way some rebooted characters are being depicted as lgbtq+. for queer people that is important. and most times than not, there is a story that has nothing to do with sexuality but at some point there is a love interest, and/or a coming out storyline, for few pages, and some people just make it like it is all about the lgbtq+ story, and it is as significant to the whole plot as batman making catwoman preggo.(I didnt see any complains about that) also because I happen to have enjoyed mostly DC live action TV series (the crappy CW stuff) most of the times those complaining know nothing about the stories or the characters etc. big example the tv series batwoman, based on the comic character batwoman (in the comics she was introduced as batman's cousin and an out lesbian socialite, who is also jewish and both of those are significant to her hero arc. as she was kicked out of the military for being gay under the then law dont ask dont tell) when the show took that story and tell it in a very faithful to the original way, the so called batman fans, started review bombing, and making you tube videos of pure hate towards the show, for the following reasons: - they gender swap batman!!11! (they thought the show came up with the concept of batwoman) - batgirl is not a lesbian!!!111 (batgirl and batwoman are completely different characters but they mixed it up) - the show is all about her being lesbian and not a superhero (the show simply showed the hero's romantic relationship like they do with all others) - it's bad writing (even though it followed the comics, and it's not like the comics are the pinnacle of literature lol, but even if they were, these people never explained what was bad, and when asked, they would parrot the bs they watched in youtube videos that cut and paste scenes the way they wanted to claim the story had not continuity or made no sense etc and they had never watched the show or read the comics but they had opinions because certain big name reactionaries (who also happened to be bigoted a-holes in general) told them the show was trash for the $$$) all that to say, that not all complains about LGBTQ+ reboots have a substance.

[@unrested]

Well yeah saying Batman has been switched out with a woman cause they don’t know batwoman exists is just ignorance of the lore. I’m kinda confused why someone that out of the loop of comics would be interested in the show if they didn’t even know she was her own original character. I think the biggest complaint with the batwoman series was the incredibly low bar for quality. I mean the CW shows are known to be cheesy but you gotta admit batwoman was on another level of cheese.

[@harukaru84]

@@unrested I mean whats wrong with cheese every now and again lol it was enjoyable (one of my fav characters also so) the hate it got though? and the review bombing, uncalled for. there are far worse CW shows. as for why they would be interested in a show they clearly don't care about? that's the question my friend, honestly. they clearly didnt watch a second of the show, yet they were going on and on about how bad it is, when the fans (including me) were enjoying it just fine. they were even bullying the writers room account. calling them trash and such. it was wild. in one of my interactions with such a case, there was a video of a fight scene, which was nicely choreographed, and BW was kicking and pushing enemies left and right, as a superhero does, perfectly normal stuff. and someone who didnt even watch the video went on and on about how "she's a woman and she throwing men around like that", I told him that's what she does in the comics and even provided a scene like that. and he was like "but that's different from the comic" which it wasn't, he has simply complained about a choreography being trash without watching it at all. the youtube reactionaries did it for the money of course, hating on media with women / lgbtq+ /poc from my experience being in fandoms, is a trend. it's one of the reasons that I dont intent to return to western fanfoms, since all the DC shows I was watching ended.

[@unrested]

Yeah I don’t agree with review bombing also if you like the show then more power to you. I remember hearing how much everyone hated wheel of time cause it didn’t match the books but it’s my favorite series so I can totally empathize with that

[@harukaru84]

@@unrestedpretty much live and let live mentality :)

[@marcosdelvalle2926]

Utena has a lesbian representation and does not feel forced at all because it is a work with a great story. Comics fail at these things.

[@unrested]

Exactly!

[@dubndrapwilwork]

comics are super woke. manga is just good.

[@ATA47]

it ain't a mystery, comics are infested by the woke cultists

[@unrested]

Just to be clear I lean more liberal and even for me it’s too much with how heavy handed the addition of political rhetoric has been hammered into western comics. It would be sickening to see even if it landed on the right side of the spectrum as well. Like I said, you can have any leaning but make it background noise or tell it in a way that benifits the story but doesn’t destroy it

[@ATA47]

Agreed completely

[@TaroFluffz]

Can you explain what 'woke' is, and what woke things you think you see in comics? Like examples of 'woke cultism' in comics.

[@ATA47]

@@TaroFluffz Why do you people always act clueless when confronted, if your cult is so meaningless and shallow that you can't stay by it, why praise it. You can't hide what you are and what you stand for since your 5 minutes of fame is what you strive for. Looking at your Twitter feed, you seem to be very well versed into this topic. Bye

[@TaroFluffz]

@ What do you mean by "you people"? I was simply asking for you to explain what you meant and to give examples so I can understand your point better. Jeez. Why are you stalking my socials? That's weird.