Why Mario 64 was Designed Using Sega Controllers

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

The moral of the story: People are a lot more alike than they are different. Just keep that in mind as you rescue the princess while breaching the sound barrier.

[@hosay9019]

M&M Kart Racing LMAO

[@tdc3477]

So Sonic 06?

[@TripleJump]

@@tdc3477 Yes.

[@danielsher5439]

64 Mario is faster than sonic because of blj

[@tdc3477]

@@danielsher5439 lol tell that to 3D all stars

[@roflmywaffles1313]

Because they were looking for a controller to play test SM64 but then they heard Gangsters Paradise which recently came out and went "Yeah let's use Sega controllers"

[@linnedarinne]

Nintendo: I USED THE COMPETITION TO MAKE THE COMPETITION!!!!!

[@Cinko420]

Oh!Line F Zero GX: "Well, this is awkward."

[@RedTsarOldChannel-INACTIVE]

@@Cinko420 Mario & Sonic: indeed, it is strange.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

Sonic was just apologizing for punching mario into minecraft.

[@Anonymous-lv4di]

Lol

[@ireplytoeverything3122]

Sonic’s crime will never be forgiven

[@chao6714]

Lol

[@crazyshark1016]

Sonic: I'm sorry. Mario: For what? Sonic: You'll find out in 25 years.

[@DatamalDraws]

more like he did it to be nice then punched him into minecraft for not saying thank you

[@IkomaTanomori]

More proof innovation comes from collaboration, not competition.

[@aiodensghost8645]

It comes from both actually. A little bit of both are healthy as without competition there cant be cooperation to innovate

[@chao6714]

Original Title: How Sega helped nintendo make Super Mario 64

[@mattyr5245]

We could not see this in the thumbnail ty

[@chao6714]

@@mattyr5245 it's ment to be a joke kinda

[@GraemeGunn]

@@chao6714 odd joke

[@chao6714]

@@GraemeGunn it is a kinda overused joke used on videos that have a title changed

[@chao6714]

@Anthony Mower yeah its better since Sega didn't intend to help Nintendo.

[@Jethcon]

3:16 *DEAR GOD, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?*

[@SanonixFastTime]

This is why Mario is able to do a BLJ, sonic worked on the speed of that jump in stairs...

[@Cinko420]

Saonic Fast Time It also explains the triple jump. You would theoretically be able to do that in a Sonic game.

[@kimberlyfrye8116]

And that’s how Mario got the speed force

[@Mraihanhafiz]

Yeah

[@StardustBullets]

For some reason I think Sonic was gonna be one the first games and not Super Mario 64 due to long stairs but they couldn’t so they waited until GameCube days for sonic games

[@kimberlyfrye8116]

@@StardustBullets the world may never know

[@JinggaSonaArchives]

I like to think that there is an alternate universe where Nintendo and Sega becomes one company

[@Why_Should_I_Tell_You]

@ThatDustyTaco Wrong, It Should Be Sinega

[@fnln3011]

Gotta BLJ fast!

[@JordanViknar]

That would be a universe where Somari isn't a bootleg...

[@Why_Should_I_Tell_You]

Yeah XD

[@JessieJamesPlays]

Nintega

[@tochka832]

more likely that hardware didn't have ports for nintendo's special connectors, while sega had a universal one

[@stevethepocket]

That was my thought too. While I've never heard of anyone actually using a seven-pin joystick or Sega pad in a PC's serial port, and there are probably reasons for that, at least it physically fits, and an SGI workstation that can emulate a console that hasn't even been invented yet is probably flexible enough to be hacked to allow it to work.

[@Raph___A]

I can't wait for Nathaniel Bandy to see this video! He loves SM64!

[@CR1MSONACE]

And every other nintendo youtuber but also yes

[@waggsworld5891]

Yeah him and nintendrew

[@cocomon3403]

Wait... Nintendo used an emulator

[@ireplytoeverything3122]

Nintendo hates emulators unless they are using them

[@WednesdayMan]

@@ireplytoeverything3122 Nintendo hates unofficial methods of playing their games. just unofficial, which includes any emulators made by the fans.

[@BMoser-bv6kn]

@@WednesdayMan They hate official ways as well. They could just have one shop for digital management rights, but then they couldn't sell you Super Mario Brothers six thousand more times.

[@WednesdayMan]

@@BMoser-bv6kn dislike, they dislike it, they won't stop you from buying an older console and buying their games pre-owned.

[@nonafier]

Those are definitely lies

[@JeremyBelpoisX]

The next time someone says "Sonic had a rocky transition to 3D" now we can say, "well, that's because he was helping Mario make his better, so there!"

[@alejjtheninja5803]

That's like someone tripping before the finish-line, then the person ahead turning back to help them out.

[@theminecraft2516]

Well Sonic Adventure was a critically acclaimed game by fans and critics alike. Some people just can’t let go of the classic era so call every modern game trash. Also the DX version was a rushed out port so a lot of people review Adventure 1 under that version

[@TeaquestSagas]

I'm always fascinated how Nintendo worked in the early "years" / generations? They made so much out of little stuff. Like they played the original soundtracks on a piano to record I think? Whatever happened to that idealism? Nowadays it's just "The joycon has no drift!" and "Pay us this yearly fee so you can use the online service! nvm our servers still being unrelyable and laggy." Hard to believe it's the same company...

[@miadesynced]

“The online service” It’s only 25 dollars. PlayStation’s online is like 50 dollars, and it doesn’t do as much. So that one’s crossed off.

[@TeaquestSagas]

@@miadesynced Ah okay. You can get a gamepass for 10 euros which has a thausand of games, why doesn't switch online give me a thausand games? Sorry, but comparing something to other companies else to justify is just retarded. Same way I could say: Hey this person jumped off a cliff last week, why don't you jump off a cliff? It sounded like a great diea!

[@miadesynced]

@@TeaquestSagas I mean. If they’re all free... thats a bad financial decision. Switch has games from the NES and SNES too you know.

[@unknownwill4th549]

Genesis does with nintendo

[@eo_]

2:20 ? Sega controllers before the saturn have the same type of plug as the computer, seems a lot easier than making an adapter or adding a SNES plug

[@weaverryanj]

Exactly - SEGA controllers fit Serial ports, same as you would find on a computer. I think this was a choice mostly of convenience. A bit of a stretch to call it collaboration.

[@bangerbangerbro]

Assuming it was 9 pin ports that they had and not PS/2 or those sound card ones (though I think those are parallel).

[@SianaGearz]

​​@@bangerbangerbro SGI Workstations have no Atari-like game port that would accept the Megadrive controller. They also have no PC 15 pin joystick port. The 9 pin serial port is driven by a UART and a MAX232, so plugging a Megadrive pad into it, while it would fit, would do absolutely no good. I propose the hypothesis that they used a Saturn controller purely because it has a button layout that lends itself to experimentation, because it has extra face buttons, chopped off the connector, wired it to the printer port, and bit banged the protocol or rewired it for a simpler one.

[@bangerbangerbro]

@@SianaGearz Yes I have tried before to use a mega drive pad with a PC to no success, but I've never really tried to understand any of the protocols or different pinouts used with the DE9 connectors. I think your hypothesis is probably correct.

[@eyeball226]

It's not like Sega D-buttons actually had any more directions than Nintendo D-pads, both get their diagonals by simply recognising two simultaneous cardinal directions so internally there's little difference. I get that the Sega design makes it easier to smoothly transition from one direction to another though.

[@zacharycardon2353]

I personally had no difficulty moving around SM64 DS with the D Pad.

[@ireplytoeverything3122]

It’s just not as precise

[@zacharycardon2353]

Maybe not for some players. Though once you learn the ropes, it's still a glorious remake. My only complaint is by the later 1/2 of the game, the camera does not rotate as smoothly as before. How did that slide through?

[@WednesdayMan]

after having played SM64 and going back to Sm64 DS, I feel that the D-pad control is sort of limiting, the only thing I really want for SM64 DS is to get a remaster so we can get actual 3d analog movement, it's already possible in the game through an android emulator and button mapping software for android, the problem is, I haven't found a solution that works like it does on Android.

[@zacharycardon2353]

@@WednesdayMan With the 3DS retired (not to mention an entire dynisty of hand held devices), it may be too late for a remaster. But if they do, they might as well add more than Luigi, Yoshi, and Wario to the crew.

[@WednesdayMan]

@@zacharycardon2353 so? This is Nintendo we're talking about here they should have the source code for Sm64 DS, they could easily fix the lack of a second screen, and make it work on the Switch, if Square Enix can get Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance 3d a game that relied on 2 screens to work on the PS4 AND Xbox One then surely Nintendo can easily achieve the same, especially considering in this case the Second screen is less important in SM64 DS than it was in Kingdom Hearts 3D-DDD (or HD-DDD)

[@xxalex423xx]

SEGA is also responsible for the silicon graphics stuff the n64 uses since they rejected silicon graphics and then Tom Kalinske told them to go with nintendo or at least i think that's how it goes

[@ademolaadekiya5694]

nah man that silicon graphic stuff is what RARE used to make donkey kong country.

[@bangerbangerbro]

@@ademolaadekiya5694 Or pretty much anyone in any industry doing professional 3D rendering.

[@eslm-studios2996]

The first time Sonic and Mario crossed and actually got on...

[@scriptersplash5923]

Wow! Thats kinda surprising yet not really at the same time. Seems to me that SEGA is always giving away their stuff to others and helping others (ik sega didn't give the controllers for nintendo to use, but in other situations they did give something) and yet their sometimes struggling with their own stuff at the same time.

[@hydro1089]

No

[@kravoki]

And here I thought the only legacy Sega had was abandoned franchises, console saturation and Sonic, but they allowed to make a cornerstone in videogame history.

[@Cinko420]

Iván Mejía Persona 5 is technically SEGA. That's worthy of a mention. But yeah, spot on.

[@kravoki]

@@Cinko420 Isn't the Persona series a spin-off of Shin Megami Tensei? Last time I heard of them they were the Last Surprise (HA!) of a Mini Nintendo Direct.

[@TankEngine75]

Yakuza and Valkiriya Chronicles has never been abandoned,also there's a New Streets Of Rage,Wonder Boy,Monkey Ball and also A new Alex Kidd coming soon

[@theminecraft2516]

Yet Persona 5 and Yakuza are some of the most praised games of this Generation

[@weaverryanj]

Seems most likely that since they only had a serial port with a DSUB connector, their only option was to use SEGA controllers since they have a DB9 DSUB connector which fits a serial port.

[@SianaGearz]

It fits physically but wouldn't do any good due to the combination of chips driving the serial port. I suspect they used a saturn controller instead due to button layout and hand wired it to the printer port, which can be fully software controlled (bit bang).

[@ThePaperGamerChannel]

1:36 “They focused heavily on character movement and *camera controls* “ That’s a funny joke

[@cober5768]

@DejaVoodooDoll Isn’t the camera in bubsy always behind you?

[@fnln3011]

As it turns out it's harder to design a thing when you're pioneering the thing. Modern devs have years of both past examples and their own experiences to draw on, Nintendo had no such luxuries

[@ThePaperGamerChannel]

@@fnln3011 I have seen better camera controls in Sonic adventure. And you always going fast in the game.

[@zachreddy]

Something tells me they weren't just using stock Mega Drive controllers. The Sega "D-button" differs from a D-pad only in shape. However, there was a semi-official analog controller made by Dempa, the XE-1 AP. It was available in Japan since 1989, and likewise used a standard 9-pin Atari joystick connector, just like the Mega Drive/Genesis and many computers. segaretro.org/XE-1_AP

[@halo3odst]

Not suprising, SEGA perfected the D-pad on their 6 button controllers and the saturn ones in particular are phenomenal

[@LostSoulSilver]

So, Nintendo has used emulators to run Mario 64 since 1996? Ok cool

[@Goomba456]

1:54 huge missed opportunity to say it was a cheesy joke

[@TsukentoX]

SEGA also helped with Mario 64's development when SEGA of Japan refused to accept SEGA of America's proposal of having SGI help develop their follow up console to the Genesis. Because SoJ refused, SGI then approached Nintendo.

[@juank4250]

Anyways Sonic wouldn't exist without mario, Soooo, Sonic was designed using Mario's popularity.

[@Navitheguy]

Not like Mario invented mascots Sonic still could have been made

[@juank4250]

​@@Navitheguy Perhaps, But the initial idea of creating Sonic was to defeat Mario.

[@gamedifficulty_4230]

How did they go through all this, and still end up with one of the weirdest controllers ever?

[@dwdadevil]

And now this game got ported to a Sega Dreamcast (unofficially)

[@bangerbangerbro]

Really?

[@dwdadevil]

@@bangerbangerbro There is even a speedrun of it

[@bangerbangerbro]

@@dwdadevil I've seen it now. Thanks for letting me know.

[@keynanmartinez]

This gives me wholesome feels.

[@alixxandrethegreat]

You should make a new story: The Story of Flipline Studios, Matt Neff and Tony Solary and: The Story of Hyperbeard, Gamasutra - Antonio Uribe

[@TheLastStardaughter]

Once they mentioned they were using a PC, the thought "A genesis gamepad port sure looks like a DB9 serial port connector, I wonder if it's easy to mod one to work with old PCs" comes to mind...

[@harrystone3081]

Nice Doctor Who reference!! (I hope it is!)

[@davidsomoza]

Also there is the fact that silicon graphics joined the nintendo venture because sega turned it down for their next console. So Sega indirectly also helped to create the n64 itself.

[@bangerbangerbro]

2:40 was the best bit imo.

[@danielvakser9993]

3:06 but the DS has the exact amount of buttons as an SNES controller. They could’ve made a separate SNES controller only made for SM64. The D-pad would be analog for walking AND running, A, B, X, L, and START would stay the same as in SM64DS, Y would be to reset the camera, and R and SELECT would move the camera left or right. With a controller setup like this, they wouldn’t even need to use their own enemy’s controller and feel like they’re surrendering to SEGA.

[@alejjtheninja5803]

Sonic's Gaming Box. Nice one, animator-whose-name-I-keep-forgetting.

[@goober4135]

If minecraft didn't exist mario odyssey wouldn't have such a good camera

[@BlastKetchup]

?

[@obvfw]

Some computers back then had a kind of port that became very widely used for joysticks. Funnily enough, the plug on Sega controllers fits that kind of port, so they probably used it because it was more in line with their controller prototypes. (If I remember correctly, you can even use Sega controllers on a Commodore 64!)

[@BlueWaterC_wow]

Making Mario say sempai on sonic makes me feel uncomtable.😕

[@STHFast]

Lol xd

[@MrSM-ui3en]

Yo that Thumbnail Nice! But for real Amazing Video!

[@lazer2545]

Like yer animations. The art style is very nice. Stay safe!

[@qoobied]

I saw the title and i had a mental breakdown

[@NukeOTron]

Well, if you think about it, the 6-button Sega Genesis controller is a similar layout to the B-A button and C-button layout of the N64, and nobody ever used the + Control Pad in Mario 64. Also, the controller ports on the Sega Genesis were based on an industry standard dating as far back (if not more so) as the Atari 2600 and its abominable-feeling joystick, and used in pirate consoles to this day. So, I'd say that adds up.

[@JuhoSprite]

Great videos! Love to watch them😍

[@trapez77]

I remember an interview with miyamoto where he said he was using a controller with 2 dpads like the virtual boy controller when he was developing sm64

[@nicholasgawler-collins5754]

3:49 10-10 Here we go again!

[@bangerbangerbro]

I thought most people never stopped thinking about it for long enough to have to be reminded, or else they were "reminded" by the Giga leak and iceberg?

[@p10_01q]

Everything is ok, everything seems fine and cool I guess... Except the cursed feeling of Sonic without face. (I mean its kinda broken, not fully empty)

[@giovanniferreira581]

Sonic:Why You Helped me?...i tried to destroy you.... Mario:....Well...you helped me first in "Controlling" Myself

[@connorplays6263]

Funny how the Nintendo development team used emulation while developing Mario 64, But have a strong personal grudge against people who emulate their games (Even if it's to play Smash Brothers Melee online because it's too dangerous to do tournaments in person)... I don't see anything hypocritical about that

[@dsmania]

You got it wrong! Goddard indeed gave reason to use Sega controllers: Sega controllers (both Mega Drive and Master System) use serial port connectors, so they could just plug them in with no modification. Of couse, they would have to create their own custom driver to transform the corresponding electric signals into the right commands, but that's way simpler and easy to replicate than modifying every controller they wanted to use. Nonetheless Sega even contributed to Marion 64 in another way... kind of: The famous camera system that they implemented in Mario 64 was found to be patented by Sega time earlier. Nintendo decided to go with it and deal with the legal issues later but Sega never exetuted their patent rights

[@dogedoge5596]

Even tho that Sega mad fun of Nintendo and Nintendo was backstabbing but quiet they still are buddies at the end and Mario and Sonic are not controlled to be fighting they are besties Nintendo and Sega for life 💙❤

[@nintendians]

at that time, genesis and snes controller feel same to me, just that genesis controller don't have an actual dpad like the nes and super nes does.

[@japhreal]

So your saying if sega lost nintendo wouldn’t have created the legendary 3D platformer?

[@bangerbangerbro]

They probably just would have used a 9pin joystick instead.

[@KorporalKReephdmkiytrecv69]

Sega sent their spies in to use the controllers. What do you mean that's not the reason

[@KorporalKReephdmkiytrecv69]

@@FanofGuardianTales grammar is for the weak

[@ireplytoeverything3122]

Yeah good luck Korporal

[@overweightcontent7945]

Oh yay i meet lugi lugi kill Mario and then take over maahaha :)

[@bingobo2551]

Technically Spyro and crash were played on dpad 64ds actually imitated how Spyro moves and instead of how it plays like in crash

[@chris24productions]

Nintendo: emulation is wrong and illegal and can’t be used for good Also Nintendo: let’s make the most revolutionary game of all time’s prototype with a sega emulator!

[@whycantihaveaproperusernam9384]

Is nobody going to talk about how Sonic is drawn?

[@supersonicadam3002]

Can you do a vid called why chat tags on roblox exist vid?

[@bugzy9983]

Can we suggest video ideas to make? I have great one ive been waiting for you guys to make since 2016

[@swagster700]

The ultimate crossover

[@ireplytoeverything3122]

That’s what Smash bros is

[@heroessquad2019]

I think Nintendo was inspired by Sonic's cancelled game, Sonic X-treme, to make Mario 64...A 3D game. I think.

[@Chokun-Gaming]

I got a mario ad on this

[@HeHe169]

Sonic loooks so naked with small lines as eyes

[@tmacinsanity4832]

Nothing to thank SEGA. Nintendo's geniuses had the design in mind from the very first steps of Super Mario 64 development.

[@marshallhorton7154]

I'm confused? Why is Mario 64 originally used with a controller Nintendo never even made. And why was Mario 64 originally used on a emulator before the console was even made? I don't need sleep, I need answers.

[@SuperPickle15]

The sega controllers used standard serial connectors, so no hardware mods. And they used an emulator because it takes years for game development, and being a launch title, they needed start working before the hardware existed, which itself can take years to produce a working protype.

[@fideispears]

Are you my mummy reminding me of that creepy doctor who episode

[@costby1105]

It probaly wasn't developed using the standard Sege Genesis controller, but a 3d party analog controller that actually supported Several Sega Super Scaler arcade ports to the genesis. This one here: segaretro.org/XE-1_AP

[@theenemy333]

I thought the reason they used sega controllers was because it was the first (and only controller) to include an analog stick at the time (with the 3D pad on the Saturn which came out before the n64).

[@RotableStar]

I thought the same. The sega master system or genisis controllers don't have enough buttons or triggers

[@AzazinNote]

1:54 At least fully commit, draw the music instrument keyboard.

[@20thcenturydenzel_alt]

So...Somari the Adventurer?

[@russellnankervis1289]

The company that provided the chips for the 64 approached Sega of American but Sega of Japan said no. The 64 could have been the Saturn.

[@AmRealityInc]

Very interesting!

[@boomsandapples2640]

Nintendo had over 100 prototypes for the N64 controller and they still ended up with a controller made for people with 3 hands?

[@lowercase7455]

I didnt even know that, wow

[@minermole101]

Sharing is caring

[@Lucas-to2jc]

Just a comment to help with the KZbin algorithm

[@Adanski]

Genesis does what Nintendont

[@pain4466]

Man Mario always have to be in the spotlight.

[@robertadamsx2]

"Many gamers are discovering, or rediscovering the joy of super Mario 64" Me: THIS GOD DANG CAMERA, COME ON! WORK! WHY CAN'T IT POINT IN A DIRECTION BETTER THAN THIS! NO! STOP! *dies by walking off a cliff* WHY DID HE WALK FORWARD WHEN I WAS TRYING TO MAKING HIM TURN AROUND! WHY DOES HE GO IN A SEMI CIRCLE TO TURN AROUND, AND STARTS WALKING FORWARD AT THE START OF IT! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[@raandomplayer8589]

If n64 gamepad was made to fit sm64, we should've had 2 sticks already. Now that I think about it, why not cover sony came up with dual stick?

[@groszak1]

Super Mario 64 does not use a second stick

[@raandomplayer8589]

@@groszak1 this things from a month ago I don't even know what the second sentence means. But I guess at the time what I'm saying is that the camera should be controlled by a stick.

[@Justin-Hill-1987]

Genesis Does What Nintendon't (Until Nintendo does need Sega's help...)

[@superdude11235]

I've been playing Super Mario 64 recently, and it's honestly just as frustrating as Super Mario Sunshine.

[@kaching7204]

Definitely not. Only TTC and Rainbow Ride maybe, but no, Sunshine is way more pain-inducing

[@superdude11235]

@@kaching7204 But at least in Sunshine you have FLUDD to correct your movements, but in 64 the closest thing you have is a midair kick, which half the time screws you over because it becomes a dive instead

[@kaching7204]

@@superdude11235 Can you use fludd in any of the secret levels before beating them? Does fludd even help when on the Pachinko Machine? Do you have the watermelon festival or the sandbird in SM64?

[@superdude11235]

@@kaching7204 I actually really like the no-FLUDD sections, because they have some of the best platforming (and music) in the game. Also, FLUDD really helps with the sand bird. Your other points are valid (you forgot about the lava boat ride) but Mario's movement is just so more tight in Sunshine than in 64. For example, being able to sideways somersault in place is super helpful.

[@superdude11235]

@@kaching7204 But I think we can all agree that Galaxy and Odyssey are the least frustrating

[@wheresmyspegit]

Huh. Neat

[@omaruto9254]

good video

[@whirlwind6wind33]

Sonic Adventure took 8 months for the Dreamcast. Super Mario 64 took 3 years for the N64.

[@theminecraft2516]

Yeah Mario 64 is longer and Sonic Adventure reuses levels for certain characters, and the technology at the time let Sega finish more than what Nintendo could do when they were making Mario 64.

[@whirlwind6wind33]

@@theminecraft2516 Is it just me? Or does it seem that Sega had Nintendo pull ahead to purposely to get out of the console race? Sense Sega at the time where they knew as a company instinctively wouldn't be able to survive long in the hardware market, essentially making last ditch efforts, stretching out the creative freedoms they had with hardware before going down.

[@Brick_Eater_]

Sonic has fur/quills where his mouth is. God help me.

[@Mickeyink]

I thought sega hated nintendo in the 90's

[@theminecraft2516]

They are companies lmao, they have to compete to survive and Sega’s strategy worked and that’s a good thing because if Nintendo didn’t have competition then they could get away with a lot of bad business moves.

[@theminecraft2516]

Also Xbox used Sega’s Dreamcast to make the first Xbox

[@chavito808]

Wait what?!

[@averagearchuser]

sm64 controls suck its hard to move very precisely and just kinda low quality but they can't do much with n64 but why would someone play because they like the controls

[@KeemySmith122]

But Nintendo hated sega when making mario 64.

[@Placeholder_.]

Interesting

[@nellystarred]

i happen to be early again🧍🏽‍♀️

[@lenfixen_4126]

👍

[@White-Rockz]

me too, I don't know what your emojis were suppose to mean though :p

[@bluetubeepicfilms9450]

What the?

[@ireplytoeverything3122]

Heck

[@itzsj7760]

Sega who?

[@SuperPickle15]

Sm64 infulenced the controller design? Explains why the controller is terrible.