Why MicroStrategy Bought $40 Billion Worth of Bitcoin - ft. Michael Saylor | Prof G Markets

[@ChrisdaSaffa]

Don't know if you chaps ever read this but some points to note for you; 1. When Saylor said mortgage your house to buy BTC, the mortgage rates were 2.97% compared to 6.6% today. Bitcoin was $59K compared to $101K today. 2. What keeps Bitcoin interesting outside of the financial sphere (which Saylor covered) is; A. Power generation companies are now using Bitcoin mining machines as reflex load assets. Typically power generation companies have to deal with peak and trough demand variance and meet that demand with constant base line generation which is typically set at peak load. This means there are long periods of time where they are generating unused power. By using Bitcoin ASIC miners that can be turned on quickly (matter of seconds) when demand drops below base line, Generation companies can capitalize on what would have been unused energy. The ASIC terminals can be turned off in seconds when demand peaks. This also has the added benefit extending the generation asset life of generation systems by 10 years+. B. AI systems using API calls currently have a very high credit card fraud rate which is causing headaches for companies like OPENAI. The API calls are paid for on stolen credit card, being an API call the criminal can rack up $1000s worth of computation, get the benefit of the service then two days later the credit card fraud is detected and the LLM provider is out of pocket as the credit transaction is reversed. By using a bearer instrument which can be used to pay for LLM services peer-to-peer, you mitigate the risk of credit card fraud. C. Then of course there is the peer-to-peer permissionless payments networks being built on top of Bitcoin (still using bitcoin) which mitigate authoritarian overreach and high transaction fees like Western Union. Thanks for the great show.

[@darthbrooks4933]

Well said.

[@Brian-zi5wr]

Someone that understands what's going on, it's refreshing.

[@derekcheney5186]

Lol someone's drinking the kool aid clearly. Value is not created out of thin air, your being played for the fool, and smiling all the way to the gallows.

[@darthbrooks4933]

@@derekcheney5186 enjoy being poor boomer, maybe read some books before saying r e t a r d things.

[@originalsinquirls1205]

A is really sad though, really, can't think of anything more useful to do with all that compute than brute force solve a meaningless problem? Could at least do something useful like train an AI model.

[@Darcsied27]

Bitcoin has no top, because fiat has no bottom.

[@jesseokeya]

It does have a top as bitcoin supply is limited

[@PATH_TRAINER]

@@jesseokeya I think the OP is referring to the price.

[@leeleelee0054]

@@Darcsied27 the money printer will never stop

[@satdaddy]

🎯

[@katielowen]

Bitcoin gives that sloppy toppy 🤤

[@internetshaquille]

Prof G Media needs a full time spam bot comment deleter

[@steviejay9245]

So we don't get distracted from the interview with a spambot?

[@sampaxinos]

Agree. Half of this episode was a text book case study of grifting.

[@ThePlaylists001]

I feel like you guys didn't do enough homework to appropriately interview Michael Saylor. You should have researched him and BTC more so you could have asked him tougher questions. You wanted him to convince you of the utility of BTC but you didn't specifically ask him why BTC.

[@darthbrooks4933]

Yes he did. First asset in human history with *known fixed supply* You just don’t understand how that plays into this.

[@Mr.Eeeeeeeee]

I think he did answer the question.

[@ByPrettyPaco]

36:54 i think he does that here

[@ThePlaylists001]

@@ByPrettyPaco The hosts didn't ask "Why Bitcoiin?" .

[@andrewkokyle]

100% Agree. Scott invited him just for the clicks. Hottest subject nowadays, and is his more successful friend. CNBC hosts can ask better and well-thought-out questions about the topic.

[@satdaddy]

I think Saylor came on to explain MSTR and not necessarily to explain bitcoin in its entirety to the hosts. Covering both topics in depth takes longer than 45 min. I think Ed and Scott (and the rest of the audience) would do well to explore bitcoin a little more so they have the foundation to understand Saylor’s conviction a little better. Just my 2c

[@edu2857]

Yes, many misguided questions. Alot of the Saylor interviews are repeats bc the hosts seem like they assume their audience needs an intro. They asked the basic intro questions rather than starting with the follow-ups that get to the heart of the issue. Maybe they should have the audience suggest questions and see what gets the most votes.

[@707tcraig]

Michael Saylor reminds me so much of the speakers at the two multi level marketing introductions I have been invited to. They had strong, confident answers to every question, yet what they were saying was clearly too good to be true. There is no risk to Saylor's 60% profits unless Bitcoin goes to zero? Come on!

[@Brian-zi5wr]

If you dont believe in the underlying asset then you should never look at MicroStrategy. However, if you dont believe in Bitcoin, I would suggest you go do yourself a favor and do 100 hours of research, because I know you havent done it.

[@billysword1721]

The timing on this is incredible.

[@john1425]

100k baby!🎉🎉

[@Mr.Eeeeeeeee]

Scott talked about bringing Saylor on the last two weeks. BTC is flying high so everyone is out of the woodwork.

[@vinicius11ariel]

I've heard Saylor words many times, this is the first time I actually grasped understanding of MicroStrategy's business model. Nuts. Truly visionary.

[@cbrugge9132]

Amen. I had slow it down to half speed when he got rolling into the new stuff

[@F3ND1MUS]

💯

[@wantonfuey1]

con jobs are easy to understand...price going up is the same momentum game going down.

[@mineralt]

@@vinicius11ariel the incredible thing about him is that he will turn out to be he greatest and most notorious financial engineer in history and he’s really a software engineer by trade…same as elon but wrt cars

[@roots1458]

Same

[@darrellcook2474]

It's really fun to see Scott talk about something which he does not understand at all.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

which is all the time?

[@kristopheradams782]

I think he gave you a great answer to the value of bitcoin - you’ve just not done the work to understand why he’s correct. There’s no shame in not understanding bitcoin, and without understanding it, you can’t know that Michael is correct. However, he is correct and his answer was great!

[@weirdnewworld1736]

Naw, I get it but he sounds like a snake oil salesman and evaded most of his questions. Many people will make a ton of money until it crashes though, especially him.

[@Shawnjohson1608]

You literally said nothing just word salad.

[@bestt2252]

@@weirdnewworld1736 he didn’t avoid the questions, you just didn’t like his answers because you’ve already made up your mind, which is cool, not everyone has to get it 😎

[@whatasam439]

There are so many grifters and conmen in the crypto space that some are bound to be correct, like thousands of broken clocks. Mortgage your house and take out a HELOC to buy Bitcoin! Shirk your children and put their college funds into Bitcoin! It only goes up, guys!

[@JimJamJuicy]

The answer only makes sense while USD is being debased if they back USD with something hard it's good bye bitcoin

[@RTC1655]

Michael Saylor is brilliant.

[@Cool-gk8mc]

Trump = scam time again. Crypto is ridiculous.

[@kyleredfearn96]

Saylor is a pioneer, its hard to comprehend for many what he is doing, but one day it will be accepted and taken for granted by all

[@patrick1161]

Is there a resource you recommend that gives me the same confidence you've displayed in your post? (Doesn't have to be perfect)

[@kyleredfearn96]

@@patrick1161 I suggest first starting to understand Bitcoin. After you full understand Bitcoin, you can start to understand MSTR. The KZbin channel Bitcoin University by Matthew Kratter is my favorite

[@taataenua9679]

100 hours of study

[@kyleredfearn96]

@@patrick1161 My favorite is a KZbin Channel called Bitcoin University

[@newbraveworld9733]

Ed, if you don't understand the value of bitcoin, or why the price goes up, it's because you haven't done any work on it. You need to put in the time to understand the properties of bitcoin and why a global decentralized monetary network with absolute scarcity backed by the world's most powerful computing network is such an incredibly revolutionary step in monetary finance and economics. Save in FIAT and have your money debased by government printing, or save in a scarce digital asset backed by raw energy that can also be sent across the world at the speed of light? Its value is clear as day. Put in the time to understand it. It's not Saylor's job to convince you.

[@EhteshamShahzad]

The concept of money historically being a scare asset is incorrect. Money is and always has been credit. Bitcoin's foundation is built on top of false understanding of what money is. Watch Ben Felix on The Plain Bagel podcast.

[@shaansingh8547]

@@EhteshamShahzadit’s not about working with old ways. It’s about finding better, clearer solutions.

[@TheBitcoinRevolution]

Silly to challenge Saylor unless he has consumed 1000 hours in a week! 🤣

[@mro234]

@@newbraveworld9733 people don't buy bitcoin for its utility as a monetary network they buy it for gross speculation.

[@al-moony]

​@@EhteshamShahzadassets are absolutely valued based on scarcity. Hard money is the best preservation of wealth and BTC is the hardest money

[@snatters]

Amazing interview with Saylor - he knows his stuff and so eloquently explained the future of finance. Good try Ed taking him on, many have bottled it!

[@dmitchv]

Hearing him talk makes me feel like we’re in a market bubble

[@theanthonyrrmillsshow3876]

Exactly!

[@rustomshroff417]

I think it makes Scott a shady character as well, by association.

[@theanthonyrrmillsshow3876]

@@rustomshroff417 I really like Scott, but I also have a lot of critiques because I do respect him and want him to provide valid info. I can see Saylor on the cover of every (remaining) business magazine in 3 or 5 years where it turns out that without intention, MicroStrategy slipped into an inadvertent Ponzi scheme, or at least just collapses due to being a complicated house or cards.

[@hyperbitcoinizationpod]

If you don't get Bitcoin You don't get MicroStrategy

[@sanchitmehrotra8209]

Holy lord what has he done ? He’s broken all the models. Like he always said he would . Equity markets are just not going to be the same . This guy has re- engineered them 🙃. Insane ! Take a bow Mr Saylor you just changed the very basic way public companies function in the stock market d

[@BTC_Patriot]

God bless Michael Saylor!

[@tarik_diamane]

You both should have studied more about Bitcoin. By now there is no excuse, the assets have been around and making waves for 15 years. You should have stealmaned Saylor's position, even thou it isn't yours. That way you probably would have asked and answered most questions you now get stuck on, which would have made room to asked more interesting follow-up questions. No the vibe during the interview was one that you as the interviewers leaned back and expected Saylor to 'bring it'. I appreciate your podcast. Never missed one. But i think you missed an opportunity to have a more intelligent conversation. The potential was obviously there from both the interviewers and interviewee

[@andybarrett6472]

@@tarik_diamane take it easy tiger. What? You guys only read the old testament? You didnt even get to the Jesus part yet! Unforsakeable. .

[@ManGrieves]

You can take the bitcoin argument of why it's an interesting vehicle for capital, set that aside and still argue why it isn't tulips all over again. Taking the every man position against michael saylors position is where the conversation will be most helpful for people listening anyway.

[@goforward8697]

Agreed. Instead they just made him look like a wizard. lol.

[@Venom-x7t]

This business podcast didn't understand one thing about Nvidia til a month ago when they brought on an expert- in less than 11 months this yr NVDA stock has tripled while they claimed the company was a Cisco bubble. One thing they got sorta right is the old man wants to buy NVDA and BTC but he doesn't know why it won't come back to the price at which he wants to buy.

[@arandomlostsoul753]

Bit of a Freudian slip of you to write "stealmaned" instead of steel.

[@nbrosna1]

I really appreciated Ed's pushback

[@absolutebarefoot]

Saylor's analogy skills are mind blowing. Scott himself couldn't resist himself tipping his hat for it at 55:56. "That's good, haha"- Scott

[@marcpaiment1080]

Nice intro to Microstrategy. In the end it sounded to me like the performance of Microstrategy is somewhat decoupled from the price of bitcoin (ie still makes $ if the price of bitcoin drops by 50%) because of the constant investor willingness to buy new Microstrategy convertible debt that doesn’t pay in cash, it pays in equity in the company. The reliance on constant inflows of cash for equity converting bonds kinda looks like a Ponzi scheme to me where the whole thing collapses if confidence in Microstrategy dries up and people stop buying the convertible bonds. Has anybody read a more detailed assessment of the business model that they could point out?

[@Throwingness]

1:07:09 Anyone who mortgaged and put all the money into Bitcoin since Saylor said this are sitting on 50% to 600% gains and that's just the beginning.

[@MarcioSouza1]

Still reckless. Getting lucky is not a reliable/sustainable way to build & keep wealth

[@infamousnachi]

@@MarcioSouza1ppl in btc aren’t ‘lucky’. They understand what it is.

[@freedomordeath89]

@@infamousnachi nope

[@mothermary3796]

@@freedomordeath89 Nope is not an argument lol

[@JohnAlexander-z1d]

I did it and am very happy.

[@bitcoinnotcrypto]

I'm 30 and I'm 100% in brother!!!!!!!!!!

[@ttacking]

But now, you're 30, right...? 🤔

[@bitcoinnotcrypto]

@ttacking years old.

[@ttacking]

@@bitcoinnotcrypto yeah,...? 🤔 Aw, I dunno? That's, THESE DAYS, pretty young & dumb still .....?

[@bitcoinnotcrypto]

@@ttacking if you say so brother! Personally I wouldn't judge someone's knowledge just based on the years they have been around the sun. A lot of dumb old folks out there.

[@ttacking]

@@bitcoinnotcrypto yeah, that's true ... 🤔 There ARE a lot of old dumbass's out there...?

[@germz7477]

How can I find the show's transcript...I need to up load to chatGPT and ask it to explain it to me like I am 7th grader.

[@1bird_d]

tl;dw buy bitcoin and don't look back, no scams, no bullshit, it's the only one worth your time if you don't believe in crypto. you should be skeptical about crypto, but bitcoin is the number one by far for a very good reason. the more you stare into this black void of a rabbit hole the more you realize how right saylor is about everything.

[@venky1777]

Gemini can do it using the video link

[@goforward8697]

Turn it to an mp3 first to save yourself time. Also. Read a few books on it ✨

[@knnmran]

forget about that. all you have to understand is there will never be more than 21 mil coins. let guys like Michael Saylor and 1000's of other people make you rich.

[@DK-qf6pr]

You make THEM rich building their pyramid where they seat on top

[@LK5860]

Bitcoin, what's the big deal? Perfect commodity created with time, physics, and mathematics. Those laws of nature components cannot be altered, corrupted, or diminished by any human, organization, or country. One Bitcoin will be worth EXACTLY one Bitcoin in a million years. It's inherent immutability, makes it the HARDEST store of value the world the world will ever see. It's intrinsic nature, which Michael did not go over, It's the reason for its present and future intrinsic value. Really recommend everybody put in the hundred hours to learn what bitcoin ACTUALLY is. It will be a fascinating journey, you'll see..

[@satdaddy]

Hell yes

[@ak-9295]

Hi could you please recommend some material to do the 100 hours please

[@pooh6546]

@@ak-9295 You did something what most people don't; willingly learning, I think that is commendable. I recommend the Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean and also 3-4 podcasts of each Saylor, Lyn Alden and Parker Lewis, Preston Pysh's and Stephen Livera have good podcasts on Bitcoin. You'll find it a lot helpful to start with these, especially the book📕

[@DiscoverPeace]

One X will be worth exactly one X in a million years, no matter what X is. That's not unique to BTC.

[@satdaddy]

@ a dollar will not be worth a dollar

[@gabe8124]

I have no house. I put everything into MSTR and that was best financial decision I ever made

[@dustin1-1-1]

Always so happy to hear saylor educate. When you asked what is the point or end game for saylor, he said to help 8 billion people. This is key. Listen to this man. Watch some of his videos. He does it for no gains at all. Just to teach and he does it with full understanding. Ask saylor anything and he had an answer because hes not their to manipulate but to actually help. A soul that wants to help has the answers and conviction

[@wisemanlionsproductions4653]

We might not all agree on Btc but it is agreeable that Michael is well versed with Btc.Thanks Scott for the show.

[@knnmran]

get off zero. join the revolution. life is much more fun when you own Bitcoin. no one ever lost by staying in for more than 4 years. good luck!

[@Cool-gk8mc]

A bunch of cons and scammers on KZbin.

[@Zero-Fiat]

50:55 First of all, the number one performing stock in the S&P 500 - *mine*

[@BitcoinMeister]

Push back was fair. Such talk needs honest and good questions. Saylor was cool about it.

[@bestt2252]

Pushback in general is great, but in this case, the pushback was rather low effort, low quality. Asking what makes something “interesting” (which is by definition a subjective question) and not being not willing to have the intellectual honesty to answer the same question when thrown back at you is disingenuous at best

[@Ronnieleec]

Saylor is excellent. Thanks guys. Great program as usual.

[@jessicadavis2244]

The difference between bitcoin and the US dollar fiat: There is an infinite amount of USD “available”. Bitcoin is finite at 21 million. Scarcity vs the USD is what gives bitcoin “value”.

[@jorgemonasterio8361]

What happens if we caps the number of dollars?

[@jessicadavis2244]

@@jorgemonasterio8361 Politicians lose elections, bills don’t get paid, wars don’t get started. In other words, that’s not going to happen, ever. We live in a debt-based monetary system and The Spice Must Flow.

[@knnmran]

@@jorgemonasterio8361 US goes bankrupt.

[@ak-9295]

​@@jorgemonasterio8361They can't hence why they keep printing more and devaluing it.

[@fiartruck0125]

Re "Bitcoin is scarce": that needs some footnotes. 1) Yes, the Bitcoin protocol caps the number of coins on the ledger. But the ledger can fork. It has forked. And it could fork indefinitely. That said, It *won't* fork indefinitely because the network effect (with an almost certain probability) will eventually favor one fork over all others. 2) In theory, a sufficiently reputable institution could issue IOUs for Bitcoin and artificially increase its apparent supply. Imagine, for example, if the government said that crypto exchanges only needed to hold 20% of their deposits in an actual Bitcoin wallet. Boom: We've 5 X'ed the institutional supply. That being said, this cannot be done indefinitely: it's hard to imagine the FDIC allowing institutions to hold 1% or 0.01% of deposits. 3) If I make a contract (not an Ethereum contract, but a normal contract) to pay you in Bitcoin for mowing my lawn. And you mow my lawn. Currently, you can't sue me for Bitcoin: I'm allowed to pay damages in cash whether you want it or not. This Is the value of fiat currency: access to a centuries-old legal system for enforcing real-world contracts. Bitcoin's analogous feature is that if I want to ensure a transaction is accepted quickly onto the ledger, my only option is to include extra Bitcoins for the miner. The protocol makes Bitcoin the "legal tender" (so to speak) for transaction validation. *This* is where Bitcoin officially gets its value: access to a decentralized system for verifying funds.

[@JuzzaDaMuzza]

Well done Prof for highlighting Michael’s character, and interesting that his incredible creativity with bitcoin is backed up by a history of patents

[@str1cklybizn3ss67]

43:55 this is where MS loses me. "the bonds pay out equity" equity in what? in a company who's valuation is tied to BTC? so if BTC declines you get equity in a company that only performs if BTC is doing well? Doom loop scenario

[@Kaodusanya]

yeah but he also said if you don't believe in bitcoin then MSTR definitely isn't for you.

[@mikeh9956]

It is paying off big time for the bond holders. Rather than holding fiat that is melting like ice.

[@str1cklybizn3ss67]

@@mikeh9956 I’m not saying it’s a losing strategy. But the question posed was “well what if bitcoin goes down precipitously.” And the answer was the bonds convert to equity in a company who’s value is directly tied to the thing that declined. So in the unlikely event there’s some sort of bitcoin black swan event, you’re holding used toilet paper.

[@PATH_TRAINER]

I enjoyed the pushback, but i think it needed a definition of what the word "interesting" meant to the co-host. I imagine everyone listening would have a different definition so maybe there was no real answer. First time watching your show and i really enjoyed it! Thanks for having saylor on. Also having read the comments i have a feeling many people commenting havent spent much time learning about bitcoin. I was a big skeptic too until i did quite a bit of reading on it. It's certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but at a 1-2 trillion dollar market cap i think its time to move bitcoin out of the "scam" bucket and really consider its validity as a new economic vehicle and asset class.

[@VirginiaBronson]

@@PATH_TRAINER that’s an appeal to authority fallacy, that last sentence of yours.

[@PATH_TRAINER]

@VirginiaBronson how so? It seems in a free market when 1-2 trillion is put into an asset class it might be time to reassess one's view of it because certainly the free market has spoken. ... But I may not be understanding what you mean. Unless you're saying the entire free market is the authority figure?

[@Kaodusanya]

@@PATH_TRAINER They're saying every one investing in bitcoin is an idiot and they're smart.

[@PATH_TRAINER]

@@Kaodusanya I had the chance to buy BTC in 2012 and I laughed at my colleague for "wasting" his money on fake Internet money. I made this assessment having done 0 research into Bitcoin. Fast forward to 2021 I buy at the peak after studying its origin, purpose, and uses. I made an educated decision based on new information and admitted that I was wrong. I do think Bitcoin can help a lot of people so it makes me a little sad to see people at the point I was at in 2012. So there's no judgement from me because I was there too. I just ask people really do their research and give it fair shake before passing judgement.

[@PATH_TRAINER]

@@Kaodusanya In 2015 I had the opportunity to buy some BTC. Instead, I made fun of my collegue for wasting his money on fake internet money. I made this declaration having done 0 research and having absolutely no knowledge on the subject other than what I heard other random people say. Fast forward to 2021 and I buy BTC at the previous peak after doing my own research and forming an educated opinion. I don't judge anyone for hating on bitcoin since I had similar skepticism just a few short years ago. It does however, make me sad because I really do think BTC is a new asset class that can do a lot of good in the world, but there's a lot of people who are in the same boat that I was in 2015. I just encourage anyone who is at all curious to really do their own research and give bitcoin a fair shake. I think many will be surprised with what they find.

[@johnbwill]

Thank you Scott. I own Bitcoin - and I own MSTR. Thanks for having Saylor on. Much of this talk is well above my paygrade. I can only imagine that you must understand everything he is saying ... all I can say, this was a part of my high-spec portion of my portfolio - and thus-far, it is doing well for me/us. It seems that Ed has a strong opinion - but alas, he is clutching it far too tightly.

[@SilentRio]

It is okay and healthy for people to have their own opinion. Bitcoin is one commodity / asset not the only.

[@Poochie1]

Have to admit, I am positively surprised by this dude.

[@bazs7669]

Saylor is a visionary, it’s a shame that Scott and particularly Ed didn’t some technical analysis of BTC and background research on Saylor to understand the basis for his arguments.

[@benjaminscott3368]

Scott's gushing over Saylor, Ed's giving minor pushback. Smells like Tulips in here.

[@RobOK_BTC]

100% - they went into it thinking they understand it, they don't

[@FactbasedReality0421]

@@benjaminscott3368 I agree-next cchapter of a long book. Tulips used to be interesting. Not sure anything has really changed, but saylors company is looking good now, but seems very speculative. Also, what is the moat? Why can't any other sizable company do?

[@hjjakers]

@@benjaminscott3368What a flawed, tired argument against BTC. *sigh*

[@leperOne]

@@benjaminscott3368 they were saying that at 10k,20k.30k lol

[@AmandaLloyd-no5jf]

This guy just explained how he is using new cash to funnel into the underlying “asset” and keeps propping up the price. Doesn’t sound remotely sketchy at all

[@mikeh9956]

Short it. I dare ya.

[@conflictionated387]

You just don't get it. Volatility is fire. While scary to "normies", fire is an unstoppable power, like a nuclear reactor. And we all know that nothing can go wrong with that.

[@goforward8697]

@@AmandaLloyd-no5jf that’s a great point. Part of it seems to be that BTC maximalists believe that fiat currency has no value. He also suggested the government switch its gold reserves to back it.

[@LennyGildersleeve]

Very Madoff like

[@mdwilliams79]

@@LennyGildersleeveRead more.

[@BBB-jn9zk]

The problem is both the hosts dont understand bitcoin as the foundation of this conversation and saylor is talking above them and really explaining the actual "trade" itself but its built on a foundation of understanding bitcoin first. Without bitcoin this trade doesnt work.

[@s.flanders]

I don’t think anyone involved in creating Bitcoin had any intention of it being used for this kind of financial engineering to make people richer in traditional currencies. It’s not used as a currency and it’s not being used as a store of value. It’s being used as an instrument for financial speculation by people who hope to one take profits off this entire game.

[@BBB-jn9zk]

@s.flanders i don't know what to tell you 1 bitcoin is 100k and it's not a store of value? Please make sense

[@s.flanders]

@@BBB-jn9zk how is it a store of value if it can lose 50%+ of its value within a week? What underlying fundamentals allow a “store of value” to do that? If you had $100k in Bitcoin in December 2017, you would’ve had

[@freedomordeath89]

@@BBB-jn9zk a brick of cocaine is 100k but its not a store of value...

[@privatename123]

This looks like a mini version of the overlevered dreamscape that led to the Great Recession. Make huge $ while the music’s playing, but be ready to quickly bail or ur going down with the ship. How big can this, and other levered bitcoin plays, get before there’s systemic risk?

[@pensionandapassport]

I felt the bias against mstr here, and its cool to see a questioning of mstr. I'm even more convinced to buy more mstr and hold until I must use it. Which might be never.

[@alexk729]

Saylor is a good salesman. Not even talking about whether MSTR is a good idea or not. Either way he’s great at getting his point across.

[@s.flanders]

He reminds me a lot of Alex Mashinsky.

[@alexk729]

@ can’t argue with that.

[@LK5860]

I guess you could call it salesmanship. He spoke clearly, and precisely, with relevant, honest conviction based on facts. I'm in professional sales, but to me, he just spoke of what is..

[@mikhelBrown]

​@@s.flanders Don't compare that man to Michael Gigachad Saylor.

[@stevengreen2440]

Saylor never recommends his stock. Only his bonds. He’s an honourable guy. When asked, he recommends Bitcoin.

[@chrisg8995]

The irony with the Musk case is that it was brought in the name of protecting shareholders… but the shareholders are paying the lawyers 650 million, and they got zero new innovative ideas from that which would benefit the company in any way.

[@mro234]

so bitcoin is valuable because it is valuable. Got it!

[@anitanyajur2933]

lol! Yes, it's very simple. This guy.

[@MikeFractureUK]

I think all currencies are built on the same premise.

[@Darcsied27]

@@mro234 Bitcoin is valuable because people are using real world value to harness electricity to mine Bitcoin. The mining secures the bitcoin network and electrical value is “converted” into a digital asset with a computer protocol that doesn’t leak this converted energy because of its fixed supply. It’s the only asset in the world that has zero dilution.

[@Darcsied27]

Bitcoin is valuable because people are using real world value to harness electricity to mine Bitcoin. The mining secures the bitcoin network and electrical value is “converted” into a digital asset with a computer protocol that doesn’t leak this converted energy because of its fixed supply. It’s the only asset in the world that has zero dilution.

[@David-vo5qs]

Bitcoin is valuable because people are using real world value to harness electricity to mine Bitcoin. The mining secures the bitcoin network and electrical value is “converted” into a digital asset with a computer protocol that doesn’t leak this converted energy because of its fixed supply. It’s the only asset in the world that has zero dilution.

[@StuartElmslie]

Come on Ed, do your homework. If the most successful performant asset in history is still not interesting enough for you, watch Alex Gladsteins presentation from the 2024 conf in Nashville for multiple use cases of utility

[@dmart_training]

The fact that Ed is 25 and doing shit like this...I'm impressed that he played devil's advocate and kept it real

[@mplafferty]

Ed sounds like a boomer.

[@tk0150]

Yeah no. Playing? Nice kid but I think he really has horns

[@goforward8697]

I like my adversity to be based in understanding and strategy not contrarianism. I could give you arguments bitcoin but none of them are “tell me what’s interesting about it” and then hiding from answering the same question.

[@knnmran]

from Ed's demeanor he is about to loose the biggest f'ing chance of his life.

[@MSTRtotheMoon]

Ed is probably poor . Have he taken saylor advice to morgtage house and buy bitcoin , he will be probably less poor

[@acousticdiary1927]

Wow.. Saylor is 🔥!!!!!!!

[@randomthoughtoftheday]

So infinite money glitch... 😅 I think what Saylor is trying to explain is exactly that-Bitcoin is valuable because it’s… valuable, and he and his company are plugged into the matrix of the infinite money glitch.

[@kemingyu4266]

He literally gave the reason why it's valuable in so many other events. Shame he didn't explain it so well here, but if you think Bitcoin relies on circular argument I urge you to think again

[@randomthoughtoftheday]

@@kemingyu4266 I get what you’re saying, but the fact that Bitcoin’s value is often explained through circular reasoning is a valid critique. Arguments like “Bitcoin is valuable because it’s scarce” or “because people believe in it” don’t inherently differentiate it from other speculative assets unless there’s deeper justification for its utility or adoption. Scarcity alone doesn’t create value-demand does, and demand is often based on perception rather than concrete fundamentals, actual utility or adoption. Even in Saylor’s other events, his explanations sometimes boil down to abstract ideas about trust, freedom from fiat systems, or being a hedge against inflation-concepts that resonate with some but don’t hold up for everyone. Without wider utility, it’s fair to question whether Bitcoin’s value is being propped up more by hype and belief than by tangible, intrinsic factors. So, while I respect your point, I think the critique still stands in certain contexts.

[@randomthoughtoftheday]

@@kemingyu4266 I get what you’re saying, but the fact that Bitcoin’s value is often explained through circular reasoning is a valid critique. Arguments like “Bitcoin is valuable because it’s scarce” or “because people believe in it” don’t inherently differentiate it from other speculative assets unless there’s deeper justification for its utility or adoption. Scarcity alone doesn’t create value-demand does, and demand is often based on perception rather than concrete fundamentals. Even in Saylor’s other events, his explanations sometimes boil down to abstract ideas about trust, freedom from fiat systems, or being a hedge against inflation-concepts that resonate with some but don’t hold up for everyone. Without wider utility, it’s fair to question whether Bitcoin’s value is being propped up more by hype and belief than by tangible, intrinsic factors. So, while I respect your point, I think the critique still stands in certain contexts.

[@randomthoughtoftheday]

@kemingyu4266 I get what you’re saying, but the fact that Bitcoin’s value is often explained through circular reasoning is a valid critique. Arguments like “Bitcoin is valuable because it’s scarce” or “because people believe in it” don’t inherently differentiate it from other speculative assets unless there’s deeper justification for its utility or adoption. Scarcity alone doesn’t create value-demand does, and demand is often based on perception rather than concrete fundamentals. Even in Saylor’s other events, his explanations sometimes boil down to abstract ideas about trust, freedom from fiat systems, or being a hedge against inflation-concepts that resonate with some but don’t hold up for everyone. Without wider utility, it’s fair to question whether Bitcoin’s value is being propped up more by hype and belief than by tangible, intrinsic factors. So, while I respect your point, I think the critique still stands in certain contexts.

[@Meshuggener929]

Reading the comments makes me realize just how early we are and at $100k… Bullish!

[@mdwilliams79]

Right??? Most of these will never get it.

[@bshafiee]

Their arguments are ridiculous but think they are smart 😂 Egos get in the way. Bitcoin humbles us all.

[@mundeps]

Love you, Gents ❤ And this was THE best interview I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen about 20 other interviews with Michael Saylor. He has sooooo honed his advocacy spiel, yet, Scott, dear lad, you’ve still not wrapped your head around it you say? As you followed Saylor’s business advice decades ago, so too should you value his present instruction and DO THE WORK-THE RESEARCH on Bitcoin. Stay humble and stack sats 🤙

[@infamousnachi]

Refinancing your mortgage to put into BTC was probably the single greatest advice anyone could have given 2 years ago. Ppl who listened would be rich af. The audacity to still bring that up as a criticism is what needs to be reexamined.

[@mayor399999999999999]

Exactly

[@whatasam439]

Bitcoin is a risky speculative asset, and it's generally bad form to jeopardize your standard of living by betting or gambling that other people will see its value. This isn't specific to Bitcoin, but any investment. I dislike how Bitcoin's increase in value has vindicated financially irresponsible advice that no investment professional would give to a client.

[@Annah382]

​@@whatasam439price increase is simply the adoption reflected in terms of price. It's not speculative. It's backed by the most powerful computer network in the world. It's a short on the national debt. Btc has no top because fiat has no bottom.

[@Mr.Eeeeeeeee]

Saylor is ridiculously smart and eloquent. He convinced me to buy crypto during the pandemic. Unfortunately, I was scammed by Celsius and got 20% of my original investment back. While I believe in Bitcoin, there are so many unknowns. It should definitely be a part of your overall investment but it is highly volatile. There are still a lot of scams out there so be careful.

[@chad.williamson]

I guess Scott loves inflation. Personally I hate it, and I love Bitcoin as value protection AND a currency. I pay people for things all the time with BTC. I have 99% of my net worth in BTC.

[@mikemacartney1332]

Ed and Scott were remarkably underprepared to interview Saylor...if you do the suggested 100 hours of homework on BTC the value proposition is clear and asymmetric.

[@steviejay9245]

You were remarkably underprepared to make this comment. If you do the suggested 10 seconds of thinking about how podcast creators spend their time, the value of spending 100 hours doing homework to do a 30 minute interview is clearly asymmetric.

[@waitup-5198]

W guest. Congratulations

[@jbnichug8949]

Michael Saylor is the Goat

[@robertalexanderkenny]

I picture Mark Baum walking out of that office in Miami: “YEP, THERE’S A BUBBLE!”

[@nckp2p]

fiat is the bubble

[@hyperbitcoinizationpod]

well, good thing you're not a money manager.

[@mikeh9956]

@@hyperbitcoinizationpod I know, right. Money managers have missed the train.

[@georgewood00]

So true 😂

[@mdwilliams79]

@@georgewood00Sour grapes.

[@MikeStillUK]

Saylor talked with Breedlove for 20+ hours on why bitcoin is interesting. It’s called ‘The Saylor Series’ maybe these two, particularly Ed, should give it a listen.

[@dabdias]

If all convertible bonds convert, and given the details of these bonds and BTC’s price trend, it is expected that all or close to all convertible bonds will convert. It’s the same as issuing equity, I can’t understand where the value creation is relative to what one can get from owning BTC directly. I might be missing something, but in my view MSTR price will converge to a price that is one-to-one with that of BTC.

[@RomilCPatel]

It’s a quasi pyramid where earlier investors benefit from the dilution of future investors. The key in a pyramid scheme is to get in early

[@ty_vorhies]

@@RomilCPatel No

[@ty_vorhies]

@dabdias As converts happen, which they all expect to, the equity is dilutive to shareholder… except, they buy BTC which accretes value. Said another way, with the dilution, MSTR buys more and more BTC and with dilution comes more bitcoin per share. This is where the concept of “Bitcoin Yield” comes in. Not a yield like a bond, rather it’s accretive to shareholders over time.

[@dabdias]

@ I know that’s the spiel, but that idea only works if MSTR’s mNAV is sustainably above more than 1, and once you realize that all or close to all convertible bonds are expected to convert there is no justification for an mNAV significantly above (1.1 to even 1.25 could conceivably be justified). I became interested in MSTR because of the supposed leveraged exposure, but then realized that there was no true or significant leverage, therefore no real value added to what one can get from owning BTC directly or through a standard ETF.

[@jackcrook4435]

If, or when, bitcoin goes to 10 million a coin in 15 years, and they own 3% of the network, they will be the biggest company in known history and can do whatever they want as a company with that capital. That is the growth you are investing in. The potential biggest company of all time.

[@aloquicious]

"Mortgage your house to buy Bitcoin"? I sold mine and bought Bitcoin. Best decision I've ever made.

[@michaelripper6656]

Ed - your questioning and quick-thinking in the discussion with Michael was fantastic. Keep up the good work!

[@mundeps]

Ed’s genuinely curious push back definitely made for a great interview, but I’m afraid he too hasn’t put in the work. So perhaps he’ll dismiss it once again. Once the work has been put in, one can’t unsee Bitcoin’s superior monetary properties as the purest, cleanest capital ever discovered.

[@Sweet..letssurf]

Great interview I’m glad Ed tried punching holes in his concept i think it’s something we’ve all be looking for And perfect timing to have him on Thanks Guys You’re awesome

[@digital_gravity]

Anyone who DID mortgage their house and buy Bitcoin is laughing all the way to the bank.

[@whatasam439]

I mortgaged my house to bet on black in Vegas and doubled my money. Was it irresponsible and generally not best practice to build wealth? Yes. But did I make money? Also yes.

[@digital_gravity]

Bitcoin over a 4-year period has always turned green. It's not the same as gambling at Vegas.

[@whatasam439]

@@digital_gravity My point wasn't necessarily to equate Bitcoin and gambling, but that you shouldn't jeopardize your standard of living to speculate or bet on any volatile asset. If Bitcoin had gone down substantially, which it tends to do frequently, you could've lost your home. No investment professional would advise you to take on that amount of risk. Unfortunately, people like you feel vindicated in making risky bets with your eating money. This strategy would keep most people up at night.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@whatasam439 thats a gamble where we know the odds. bitcoin is an allocation into an asset we have a lot of information about and have plenty of reasons to believe will continue to accrue

[@zaalb131]

@@digital_gravityI like Bitcoin but tulips in Holland and the South Sea company in Britain also only went up until they crashed all the way down and never recovered

[@mostly-harmless]

It's absurd to me that two people as smart as yourselves can't see the use case of two human beings waving their phones at each other and exchanging value without a 3rd party corporation or government being involved. Absurd.

[@pastorjosh7747]

A 10% Bitcoin allocation at 40-45+ is hilarious. Bitcoin is the only savings/investment you need for the next several centuries. There is no second best. All it takes is time spent understanding it. Would you go without electricity in part of your house because you want to ‘diversify’ into oil or gas?

[@B.A.brackishangler]

The shareholders should have the only voice in executive compensation- that's it. Scott's view of this as government overreach, in this case, is correct. Ultimately, this led to Tesla moving out of Delaware and will eventually lead to an even bigger payout for Musk in Texas. Judge McCormick did nothing but delay the pay package and cause many corporations to move out of Delaware.

[@dermic]

Most interesting is that fiat is being printed to buy unprinted Btc

[@tayloryates1048]

I can't take Saylor seriously. He seems more politician than visionary

[@davidmurphy2388]

Ed is sad he missed the boat 😢

[@RobOK_BTC]

Why doesn't he take 10 hours and study. It breaks his whole world view

[@knnmran]

the sad part is that he is still young. imagine how stupid he is going to look in few years if he does not buy. he will be thinking to himself: Michael Saylor himself explained it to me and i did not understand.

[@FactbasedReality0421]

or will be proven right. There are "insightful" people on both sides of every time these things happen. we shall see. Sayloor seems to be spewing some amount of nonsense for a currency that produces nothing except as a hedge against another currency.

[@knnmran]

you sound like a non-believer and that is fine. everything will loose to True Scarcity in a long enough time-frame. it is not just me spewing bs here. there are millions of Bitcoiners. are all of us wrong?!

[@xzcvdfxzc7256]

@@FactbasedReality0421 You're exactly right. Bitcoin is a pipe dream being sold to desperate young men. They're in for a rude awakening when it crashes.

[@suunt12]

Imagine interviewing Michael Saylor and then having a post mortem chat admitting you understand nothing that was said to you. 😹😹😅😅 NGMI. Thanks for posting.

[@rhysdominguez4826]

Ed is out here casually nailing predictions in sunglasses while chilling on a beach

[@tigreytigrey8537]

Well eds honestly the brain of this op. Galloway just told good stories and charmed his way to where he is. Galloway has TALENT not brains.

[@silmaril94]

I watch this podcast because of Ed not Scott Galloway. If Ed left to start his own podcast I'd jump over yesterday to follow him instead. Ed is clearly doing most of the work anyway - it should really be called "The Prodigy Ed Show Featuring Prof G"

[@Venom-x7t]

How's his Nvidia=Cisco prediction working out?

[@LoveForTheTruthTV]

Shareholders should decide CEO compensation not judges. No one is corrupt for generating wealth by contributing to society. Elon is the greatest inventor of our time.

[@mrg3284]

Totally love the way Saylor was pushed during this interview, it gives him the chance to really break down difficult concepts for the layman person. #MSTR

[@gstewartjr]

Keeping the casino open 24/7/365 is probably all bitcoin needs.

[@tk0150]

OMG! Michael you are a saint of patience. 95% of the population is in a state of comatose The Walking Dead and are clueless and will remain clueless if something was plastered right in front of their face People are not willing to do the work to think not even for 15 minutes. It's amazing. Let's just March 4 and build a new world while others sit in a stupor

[@kasmstamps1897]

1:10:40 diversification. July 2024 I put 5% into bitcoin. I'd been too conservative in my allocation previously. Now I have a small portion in a speculation asset. Under 30's start saving something, anything. Speculation is better than gambling (lotto). I've also invested in disruption.

[@JohnAlexander-z1d]

Judging from many comments, most people still have not taken the time to learn about bitcoin and don't know what they are talking about.

[@dishboy14]

They better call the Bitcoin CEO and ask for an interview. oh wait......

[@ernieschatz3783]

Let people assume their own risks with eyes wide open. Today we have both Blackrock and Schwab recommending BTC be 10 percent of your portfolio. When you mention Ed "keeping it real" and then mentioned how Saylor manages to bring information without resorting to wise cracks and personal attacks, I realized Ed was the embodiment of the wise cracks bordering on personal attacks integrated with dry humor. To me, his "keeping it real" was mostly mostly composed of pre-arranged counters sometimes interrupting Saylor in mid sentenced to launch a counterattack. He's hasn't kept it secret that he's anti-bitcoin. His satisfied grin at the end, as if he'd proven something to himself or anyone else, was also revealing. Does slow and steady win the race at todays devaluation rate of USD? Will an S&P 500 index fund even tread water? Maybe volatility to an extent is what's needed. This is the most safe volatile asset I can think of today. You should invite James from the invest answers KZbin channel to one of your shows to push out of your TradFi comfort zone.

[@smudger3195]

I quite agree James would put them straight 👍🚀

[@jimmyh8959]

The moment someone starts using words like fair or unfair, and overrides the decisions of shareholders, you not only have overreach. You're basically no longer America.

[@knnmran]

all shareholders were informed of the decision before the initial investment and were given a chance to sell back their stocks at premium. 60mil worth took it. stock 30x after!

[@sponkmcdonk3898]

One day you’ll be a billionaire too right

[@jimmyh8959]

@@sponkmcdonk3898 I tell you what one day I used to be. A deluded middle IQ immigrant kid with nothing, taking sides in pointless and distracting political and idealogical arguments. Word of advice. Stop that, invest in yourself, level yourself up, take care of your mum and if you manage to make more, your community. Good luck!

[@TheBlogPressing]

Your podcast is excellent and your dry humor is appreciated I’d like to address your take on Trump’s BRIC threat It seems to me that his public declarations are generally for his domestic audience to make him appear a certain way and to get people like you and others to discuss and promote the narrative Your thoughts on this?

[@mikeh9956]

Ed was woefully unprepared.

[@A704T]

Who could be prepared to debate a man who is trying to re-define the meaning of the word "interesting", just to proposition that his asset class has any inherent value

[@whowili7289]

So what exactly is the correct price for Bitcoin and how is that price determined? It has no cash flows and never will. This will not end well.

[@sylarfx]

this has huge Big Short vibes, reminds me of synthetic CDOs from 2008 big financial crisis, in case when bitcoin goes down

[@Venom-x7t]

There are Bitcoin short ETFs and MSTR short ETFs to buy- you could be a billionaire and the next Big Short movie will be about you!

[@beerkegaard]

Lol every guy wants to be the next Michael Burry

[@MarcioSouza1]

4:04 Vanguard and BlackRock are not “a small number of shareholders”. Millions of people own stocks THRU Vanguard and BlackRock ETFs.

[@mrapp8918]

Ed’s a “G” but Prof G is 💯 correct on the Elon Pay Package decision. Corporate governance exists to serve as a framework for, inter alia, deciding on executive compensation plans. “Fair” doesn’t exist in that world, nor should it. Elon’s comp deal was indeed insane, but so were the milestones the board set him. But, the most insane thing of all was that ELON HIT ALL OF THEM. A deal is a deal. “Unfair” would have been paying him $56 billion for “trying hard”. That’s not what happened. The board set an incredibly high bar for Elon to meet. And he vaulted right over it. And, as a result, the company benefitted, the shareholders benefited, the environment benefited…and the CEO should benefit too. A deal is a deal. Pay the guy what he’s owed. And let that judge go find some actual crimes with actual victims to harass instead of the world’s greatest sustainable enterprise.

[@cmw3737]

What's insane is that a bunch of lawyers can defraud Tesla shareholders out of billions in shares by getting one of them with a few shares to act as patsy when they spot a technicality that they can take advantage of. I voted yes to Elon's package a second time mostly because he did what was promised and also that he's proven to be the best capital allocator on earth but mostly to say that there's no way fraudsters with law degrees should get away with such a massive theft. Some might agree that Elon being too chummy with the board and the package being too much but all shareholders, other than the one being paid off, agree that they should not be getting a penny.

[@A704T]

The crux of the decision is actually very much in line with corporate governance, specifically the role of the board of directors, and preventing them from being sycophants at the whims of the CEO. Mr. Musk should have negotiated his compensation package with an arm's length board, instead of one that included his former divorce lawyer. If Mr. Musk stuck to his prior statement of taking Tesla private, he would not be subject to these restrictions. But he's the CEO of a public company and has to play to by those rules, or in your words, a deal is a deal.

[@laxmania4]

Good work Ed

[@fallzonrs3929]

Something off with this guy. Nobody in history has come out well describing risk free investments. He cannot directly answer a single question about the downside without exaggerating and talking about Bitcoin extinction.

[@fallzonrs3929]

It gets worse. The circular logic and justification is insane. Ed asked a good question - what makes bitcoin interesting? All he could say was that it’s interesting because of how fast it’s going up 😂 Then he started saying apartments and real estate are 20th century assets, and somehow less “real” than MicroStrategy???

[@weirdnewworld1736]

Bingo. To say BTC is more interesting than gold - which has raw value in things like circuits - is snake oil salesman territory. There will be a bunch of people who'll make money, and a lot of people who'll be destroyed.

[@fallzonrs3929]

@@weirdnewworld1736 Yeah he’s just a grifter lmao. Talking about a time when organizations will dump their no-longer-valuable real estate to scoop up Bitcoin

[@pizzaiq]

Basically you don't understand bitcoin...

[@weirdnewworld1736]

@@pizzaiq Nope - we understand it completely.

[@dragonflames0005]

in silicon industry, every plan -> implementation -> execution takes closer to 5-6 years... so for Pat, his work will showup in revenues in 2026/27. you gotta understand, action->revenue takes a long long time

[@maxr2663]

If you don’t understand it and it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. To each their own!

[@taataenua9679]

You're poor

[@mothermary3796]

@@taataenua9679 lol truer statement of the two

[@satdaddy]

Ackman is right diversification is a lack of conviction. In most cases that is prudent and fine. But if you study something thoroughly and have deep conviction and see tremendous potential, you will concentrate a larger position in that thing. Bitcoin is a perfect example. Everyone who sets their ego aside and does the work to study bitcoin becomes a believer and a hodler.

[@WhaleEye-r4e]

I often trade billions of dollars around the world on Sunday morning. Now that you mention it, I think Bitcoin is interesting.

[@ibz.kamara]

I don't quite understand the capital markets and corporate finance. Can someone recommend a video, podcast, book etc.?

[@Gotcho1977]

48:47 Saylor cant define why Bitcoin is needed.

[@RTC1655]

No, he answered why BTC is important for everyone. Wise up.

[@jackcrook4435]

It takes hundreds of hours to fully understand bitcoin, there are lots of moving parts that interlock such as a small understanding of the finance, physics, hard assets, monetary history, fiat currencies and their lifespan, game theory, technological adoption. Bitcoin won’t be hard to understand in the future, the same way we understand the internet now. But if you could have invested in the internet, to own 3% of it, it would have been taken a lot of time to understand it enough to bet your entire company on its trajectory. That’s where bitcoin is hard to understand fully. It’s easy to grok the basics, it takes time to understand it as a whole to be able to go all in.

[@knnmran]

there are hundreds of hours Saylor talking online. he defined it 1000's of times.

[@jimchen6236]

This episode is really good.

[@rickyrhodes]

Ed going hard with those questions to Saylor, love it!

[@kevintal]

Great interview, Ed. I'm curious about Michael Saylor's recent performance at MicroStrategy (MSTR). Given the company's $340M negative income against $117M revenue last quarter, I'd like to know his rationale for this significant discrepancy.

[@reapzvanreapz9687]

What? That’s just the data analytics part. The numbers don’t reflect anything bitcoin related. If it did it would show a 500 million dollar profit each day for the last year.

[@Usepen]

Sounds very ponzi schemish. But kudos to him for figuring out a legal way to take down our economy or hold it hostage. God help us.

[@ty_vorhies]

I bought a lot at $29/share. Studied MSTR & BTC since 2020 at Harvard. Saylor is legit.

[@drcrypto6790]

he did help , by creating bitcoin.

[@RobOK_BTC]

If the economy can be brought down by this, it's not a very strong economy. Do you see no problem with infinite monetary supply?

[@NCC1701F]

There is no Ponzi scheme in sight; it's fundamentally inaccurate to make such a comparison, so rest easy...God won't be needed.

[@DankoStojanovic]

1:07:16 Well done, Ed, for keeping it real. I don't knwo if Bitcoin will ever go to 0, but we do have an example of NFTs. Sometimes things stop being "interesting".

[@al-moony]

Lol comparing Bitcoin to nfts