Why No Hit True Pacifist Will "Probably" Never Happen

Eight years and still no Pacifist no-hit run? Maybe this video will answer everything regarding that.

[@ShayyTV]

I'm not sure people fully understand the gravity of why this challenge most likely will never see completion. I have done hundreds, maybe even thousands of playthroughs of True Pacifist for speedruns. I have not once, not a single time, ever successfully no-hit that attack in Asriel P4 (just so it's clear, the attack being referred to is the attack where Asriel throws hundreds of rainbow comets at you, which might be news that it's even possible to avoid). Hell, I'm not even sure if I've ever once even had an RNG state that would make it even be possible to no-hit. It's not a matter of player skill, execution, or anything like other "impossible" challenges you've seen on KZbin videos or in speedrunning - this is sheer dumb luck. There's many of us who could confidently no-hit the entire rest of the game, but doing all that on top of what is essentially a lottery win is just soul crushing. Completing this challenge doesn't hold that much merit to where people want to grind for it, anyways. Just speaking for myself, personally, it's just luck when compared to just a Neutral Ending no-hit. I could do so, so many other things that showcase skill in the game, and this just is not worth dedicating time to in my eyes. I did a no-hit run of the entire Genocide route because even though there's some luck in not getting unavoidable attacks from certain enemies (Astigmatism...), it's still mostly a skill thing. That's where things currently stand. If some kind of perfect RNG manipulation that didn't require 15 minutes of sustained frame perfect gameplay is discovered, somehow, and as someone who understands the inner workings of this game that is a VERY slim possibility, then things may change; but that wouldn't prove any points in this video wrong, it would just provide a new approach that didn't exist before and bypass the problems outlined here.

[@RealSilGaming]

Truer words have never been spoken. Thank you for your input.

[@REDACTED504]

Yeah. It’s implausible as all hell. And I think that’s why it’s still a good fight generally, it feels like Asriel (with that still Flowey/‘evil’ persona he has), making the fight unfair and all.

[@lawgd23]

Hi Shayy :)

[@DeathclawJedi]

Improbable as it may be it IS possible. I mean once upon a Time it was thought to be impossible to get a true win Crash of the game Tetris. Then some Kid did it at age 12 or something. Still a no hit in pacifist run in UT.... Yeah I wish only the best for the folks chasing that star. All the Luck in the world Be with them and may their hands never cramp and eyes never glaze.

[@ephraimium6755]

​@@DeathclawJediThe thing with the killscreen in NES Tetris is that it's thought to be "impossible" in the first place due to the limit of human's physical capability and control's inputs limitations. When a player found a way to bypass the control's inputs problem by a technique called "rolling" and another player compiled an of all the distorted color in the latter part of the game it's just boiled down to human's skill and time. P4 Asriel's spam attack; on the other hand, wasn't even made with the intend to be dodgable and is just a lottery jackpot roll on top of a 1 and a half hour run for speedrunner and 3-5 hours for casual run.

[@ViolettaFG]

It takes 34 years until someone beats Tetris, a game that NO ONE thought could be beaten. So we gotta wait

[@user-yp8gg7gw2n]

That involved a technique discovery. So unless there is some way to ensure a specific rng on multiple bosses...

[@Kaylen_Jakobsen]

ever heard of TAS @@user-yp8gg7gw2n?

[@tkienjoyer]

​@@user-yp8gg7gw2n People say rng manip is the only way to ensure it, but not necessarily. There could be a visual strategy revamp or something along those lines, but it would be unlike anything ever done in gaming as a whole.

[@A_Toaster]

Silksong will drop the same day we get a no-hit true pacifist

[@Borispocalypse]

@@A_Toaster silksong mentioned, commenter of culture confirmed.

[@izzymosley1970]

It looks like the only way to beat this challenges is with the determination to brute force your way through RNG. How fitting for a undertale challenge to be solved by determination.

[@RealSilGaming]

Pretty much

[@Zorothegallade-gg7zg]

Very fitting, in Undertale Determination is the strength to retry after every failure no matter how grievous. You gotta have that if you speedrun/challenge run any game.

[@Floriaka]

Nothing says we cant find Asrial Dreemurrs Boss Fight Coding to find why he throws certain attacks then theory craft around it

[@Spilsbury1989]

Thinking of a new P.B fills you with determination

[@Aphelia.]

I never played Undertale- but I needed a video that is exactly 9 minutes and 48 seconds long to watch while I ate my lunch. 10/10

[@CBrothersYT]

Nice

[@TheSoulCalledZuzia]

mood

[@jsutbule]

Nice

[@legendarysands4892]

mood

[@creeper_was_here]

Nice

[@gengar_animations]

I don’t think people understand how mentally taxing it is to do not hit true pacifist. Like Sil said, you’d need 7 hour play sessions to even have a chance at this, so overall playtime will be well in the thousands. And to those saying “you’ll get more consistent”, no you won’t, as there are luck locks. Sil themselves has put countless hours into this and has already started feeling mentally drained, and I couldn’t even imagine getting to asriel consistently every few hours just to die to phase 4. Of course, I’m not an expert, I haven’t done asriel hitless or anything and I never will, but some logic is necessary to tackle this topic.

[@RealSilGaming]

Correction, this isn't as mentally draining as... well, life, but basically yeah, good summary.

[@maxmanchik]

Some could even say... That it's *soul crushing* 😂 Get it? Cause you lose all *DETERMINATION* to continue doing this 😂 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@SuperDestroyerFox]

@@poleve5409 That was the joke😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@axelbrum2654]

Bro is saying that as if we are not 2 frames away from frame perfection on sm1

[@gengar_animations]

@@axelbrum2654 sm1 has been around for much longer, is more popular, and most importantly, isn't an rng fest. People can route precise inputs much easier in sm1 because the game is simpler and there's no variance involved, while here, it doesn't seem to be as likely

[@pedrogarcia8706]

If it's anything like Hades, the best way to make something happen within a short amount of time is the make a video saying it'll never happen.

[@thrift272]

This exactly

[@nediacheese9989]

God that was so funny, i watched the video about it being impossible, and i went to the home screen of youtube and saw the completion that was posted half an hour ago.

[@ThunderCube3888]

This is a reference to ToMinecon.7z,

[@Jago1288]

4 hits is a good start. The RNG is gonna be such a mess...

[@Camreamancat]

Man I could do it in 3 *Billion Deaths*

[@Golden_Flower_1]

Yeah, rng can really fuck stuff up. Even if you have literally a perfect run with no mistakes, you can still easily get fucked over at literally the very end 😭 I can only imagine how frustrating that’d be

[@Zorothegallade-gg7zg]

@@Camreamancat It's ok, as long as you have Determination.

[@TheQ7Gaming]

I agree. The odds of success are low. But hey - youve hit the wr. Thats something to hold with high regard.

[@RealSilGaming]

true...

[@moltengears7483]

Meh i can do it in 3 Hundred​@@RealSilGaming

[@fedethegreat88]

​@@moltengears7483More like thousands

[@Lycronite]

​@@moltengears7483 yeah 300 thousand years

[@TheDragonThatFell]

While I love the enthusiasm of this comment section I don't think most of these people actually understand how lucky you would have to get for a true pacifist no hit. I'm seeing a lot of people saying things like "Asriel no hit has been done so true pacifist is definitely happening" Asriel no hit took 4 - 5 years to happen with hundreds of hours and thousands of attempts. This is because of the insane rng needed. Doing an Asriel no hit after a full pacifist run including Photoshop Flowey and True Lab is incredibly unlikely not even taking into account the nerves you would have at that point. While positivity is good, don't get your hopes up.

[@TheGabrlmed]

Literally an "Imagine the Nerves" but a for a bullet hell instead of Clone Hero.

[@betergrif9504]

Yeah, when you need at least 1 and a half hours between EVERY possible attempt, assuming you do the rest of the game perfectly every time (you won't), it gets ridiculous very quickly

[@Kaika433]

a true undertale player just says "stay determined"

[@Snailing_Suika]

Eh after seeing enough "LoLK no miss no bomb 1cc" (you can search this if you are interested) runs beeing completed I think its just a matter of time and obsession over the game. There just has to be 1 person dedicated enough and we're living in a beautiful world with over 6 Billion people. I think it will get done eventually. Omega Flowey seems the hardest since undertales hitboxes are pretty true to the model and the fight is designed like that. But there is some beautiful crazy other stuff out there in gaming that has been done already.

[@TheDragonThatFell]

​@@Snailing_Suika Omega Flowey isn't the hardest in the run. A full hitless neutral run has been done several times. Asriel is the biggest roadblock and it's because it's at the end of an already extremely difficult run and literally impossible 99% of the time. No hit Asriel has only been done 6 - 7 times ever in the game's 8 year lifespan. While Flowey isn't the hardest boss in the run that doesn't mean its easy. The best consistency a human has ever achieved at Flowey no hit is still less than 50% since can give you an unreactable or downright undodgeable attack combo. There are very few people who are even close to this consistency. You also have to keep in mind that your about 1 hour and 20 minutes in when you do Flowey and you're plenty nervous at that point. Doing all of this and several other rng chokepoints in one 2+ hour long run is the reason this will likely never happen. Right now there are only 3 people who have done both Asriel no hit and Neutral no hit: Zotomon, who isnt active anymore, TheAsriel, who has no interest and believes it would be stupid to even try it, and of course Sil. Currently Sil is the best player actively grinding this and even she hasn't been able to grind it very often. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the chances of a run like this according is so low it likely will never be done. Sorry for the long reply, it just really annoys me when people enter the community thinking they're gonna be the one who does nhtp, but don't fully grasp how unlikely it is.

[@RealSilGaming]

If you're curious, yes I'm still trying for this run, though I haven't been able to give it a try recently due to IRL matters and thinking about what to do when I stream it

[@kushagrasinghvisen9935]

Its been speedrun before

[@phantom-ri2tg]

Okay but what about a no hit soulless run? That thing people will start asking for if people pull off this run.

[@RealSilGaming]

@@phantom-ri2tg Someone else can handle that shit

[@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her]

@@phantom-ri2tg Is there a difference?

[@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her]

@@kushagrasinghvisen9935 By who? Show us.

[@legendgames128]

Eenox managed to do a no-hit Asriel in full. So it is theoretically possible. That being said, he was also mentally TAXED. So trying to accomplish a full true pacifist run beforehand would be absolutely INSANE. No hit all the way to Omega Flowey, no hit on Omega Flowey, no hit True Lab, no hit Asriel. WTF.

[@melovespoon]

I was waiting for someone to say this

[@The_og_moonwalker]

For some reason the first time I did pacifist I never actually fought omega flowey

[@legendgames128]

@@The_og_moonwalker Hmm... that shouldn't be possible. Maybe someone played before you did?

[@The_og_moonwalker]

@@legendgames128 no one did, I just fought ashore once, died, and I think I got a call from undyne. I just played through true pacifist yesterday tho and it worked correctly.

[@drakath5727]

RNG Manipulation definitely sounds like the best option. Other than that, I've got no clue. The list of steps required for such an RNG manip is insane though considering how long it takes to get to that point in the fight. Even then, you'd still need to: A) Create a tool that can search for a humanly viable set of phase 4 patterns within RNG. B) find out how to advance RNG purely manually, and/or find a way to refresh RNG back to square one in the overworld. C) create a setup before the boss fight that when done correctly always arrives you at that idealistic phase 4 pattern. The fact that you even got it down to 4 hits in of itself is already monumental, let alone an individual no hit fight of Asriel. The fact that the community has gotten it this far proves to me that it is possible, you all just gotta work smarter, not harder. You're so close, don't stop before the finish line.

[@RealSilGaming]

It would have to be frame-precise if we do manage to get a manipulation technique working due to multiple changing values in the game's code. Even then, we have to get back there every single time we want a chance at getting it just right, and then carry out the execution after that. It sounds like the best approach but it's probably better just to grind the run out without outside interference.

[@drakath5727]

@@RealSilGaming At this point though with how bs phase 4 is I'd honestly say go for it. Theres no harm in at least attempting it if the goals a lower score and not a faster time, since even if you do fail the manipulation its not like you really lost anything in attempting it when you probably were going to lose to phase 4 anyway.

[@ajfriet]

I'd like to think someday this will be beaten despite the odds, but in all honesty it won't. No one really wants to put in the time to do a run like this. As cool as it would be if someone did, most people have actual lives and can't invest 10 hours a day doing attempts and trying to find good rng

[@RealSilGaming]

I'm on and off trying to get it and even I have my doubts

[@seandorama5932]

I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom, people have speedrun and no hit many games with absolutely ass RNG, it just going to take a very, very long time! I believe this community can do it!

[@kleine.kleeblatt]

SMB3 and GD players would like to have a word

[@ajfriet]

@@kleine.kleeblatt yes but those are waaaay more popular games. Not that I'm saying Undertale isn't popular, but it's not exactly well known for challenge runs outside of fangames. There are way less people attempting nhtp than people doing smb3 and gd challenges

[@kleine.kleeblatt]

@@ajfriet yeah fair

[@GreyMaria]

It's genuinely surprising to learn from this video that the Venn diagram of Undertale no-hit runners and skilled Touhou players is two completely unconnected circles.

[@williewillus]

Because they're completely different types of games -- one is an hours-long narrative RPG with action-danmaku sequences intermittently interspersed, the other is a 30 minute game that's purely focused on dodging and listening to music. Touhou players are probably not interested in mashing Z for 80% of the time, passing the easy danmaku parts handily, then rolling dice on the impossible parts repeatedly; at least I'm not. Every mainline Touhou game *has* been perfected on Lunatic, but that's because ZUN keeps the random luckshit moments to a minimum (even the hardest attacks like LLS rings and PDH can be manipulated and practiced to be easier), and the games are relatively shorter, making attempts more feasible. The later phase missile spam in this fight is just straight up luckshit with no recourse beyond potential RNG manipulation.

[@GreyMaria]

@@williewillus It sounds like Undertale players are more skilled, then, being able to react and adapt. 💙

[@williewillus]

@@GreyMaria lol

[@spiceforspice3461]

@@GreyMaria I don't think "hoping this attack is actually dodgeable" is really adapting. Also, top level touhou players beat bullet hell games that are harder than touhou, like mushihimesama, dodonpachi, etc.

[@someaccount2299]

​@@GreyMaria Bait used to be believable

[@valivanvan]

I'm not super well-versed in Undertale, especially the no-hit side of things, but oh my god, 7 *HOURS* to get to a lottery??? It'd be bad enough if it was 30 minutes, man... Side note, I see a lot of folks in the comments bringing up stuff like perfect touhou/bullet-hell runs and whatnot -- having done several of those myself, they are not comparable in difficulty in the slightest, nor are the games really all that similar to play. Best of luck to anyone who wants to pursue this, though.

[@plugshirt1762]

Yeah there is a difference between an insanely hard bullet hell and a wall of projectiles that are physically impossible to dodge except every thousand runs one time

[@RealSilGaming]

I keep seeing the same comment over and over again. YES I KNOW Eenox has done a full no-hit Asriel but the point I make in this video still stands, it's not currently possible to achieve this run REALISTICALLY because the odds of just doing no-hit Asriel are incredibly low

[@Finity2010-ud2rl]

Whelp, I know what I have to do now!

[@aarav6947]

in theory couldn't you close out the game right before you get hit and just savescum asriel until the rng gods cooperate?

[@Yourhandleisntavailable]

i've been trying to fix my pride but that shits broken, I ain’t too proud to beg you, RealSilGaming! Please don’t mute or ban me for my comments and questions! You can no hit Asriel without mashing buttons, you can avoid the laser beams “unavoidable” damage. You can no hit without mashing buttons.

[@RealSilGaming]

@@Yourhandleisntavailable You cannot avoid the laser beams damage, it's scripted. Even if you made it outside the box. kesMadgik proved that.

[@Yourhandleisntavailable]

@@RealSilGaming There is a way to avoid the laser beams damage, without having to hack the games security, and with or without leaving the box.

[@elementgermanium]

I feel like part of the disagreement is that people tend to use "never" as shorthand for "not in the near future." Like, eventually someone's gonna get it monkeys-and-typewriters style, but "eventually" could be a damned long time. Years or more.

[@UltimateSpinDash]

Asriel: Don't you have anything better to do?

[@thejgamingyt]

so this means undertale was the first undertale fan game to uhhhhhh.... ummmmm be unfair

[@TheSoulCalledZuzia]

well i wouldnt consider undertale to be undertale's *fan* game

[@thejgamingyt]

@@TheSoulCalledZuzia just trying make the funny

[@pineball43]

@@TheSoulCalledZuziaidk i think toby was probably a fan of undertale

[@Zekiraeth]

@@pineball43 big if true

[@CasuallyShadow]

Guys, guys, the solution is simple, you just gotta get Dream to do the Asriel fight!

[@RealSilGaming]

I don't think we can rely on a Minecraft speedrun cheater to get this done.

[@user-qr3rs4rg6c]

​@@RealSilGaming he's the right guy to call when you need to nail a 1 in 10¹⁸ chance of something happening.

[@m.zangdar6987]

The last time someone said a run of a game was impossible, a guy did it a week afterward. I hope it happens again for Undertale.

[@RealSilGaming]

It may happen in the future but I doubt it's going to get any closer within a week without some kind of nonstop streamer

[@m.zangdar6987]

@@RealSilGaming Yeah the chances of a run like that being done in the span of next week is close to zero. But it's not new for speedrunners to achieve the impossible. I believe in the undomitable human spirit.

[@RealSilGaming]

@@m.zangdar6987 I don't think speedrunners are interested in going for what is basically a lottery. Although one has a no-hit Genocide run under their belt, they haven't shown any interest in Neutral hitless, which as I've said in the video, is required for Pacifist. Neutral hitless runners would be the best contenders, but I'm sure pretty sure that every other one will tell you they are not interested.

[@awezome-z3539]

The run hass been already not hitted the video es 4 years old by eenox

[@tabsmag]

@@RealSilGaming i mean thats basically what minecraft speedrunning is and the AA category is the most comparable, but a lot of people still go for those so I think it's definitely possible for someone to be interested and determined enough to just throw hours at this game in the next few years

[@gavinyeet5821]

NGL this weird toxic positivity a lot of people seem to have is really frustrating, especially in the case of speed/challenge runs. Yes, a run like this is possible, but saying it's achievable is like saying "work hard and someday you WILL accomplish all your dreams!" Working hard makes it more likely, but there's no guarantee and in reality it is much closer to impossible than it is to possible.

[@breadvelvet]

seeing several well-meaning comments about how someone put out a video like this about Hades 64-heat, which is a run similarly beholden to extraordinarily good RNG. the key difference between hades and undertale's odds, though, are that for hades, all those dice rolls were more or less front-loaded, so in the likely event that you're unable to string together the necessary build by the time you reach Lernie, it's only a few minutes at most before you can opt to reset and try again. for this challenge in Undertale, though, the crucial dice rolls are basically all stuffed into the back end of a taxing run that's well over an hour long, so resets after bad odds are so much harder to come by. you don't know if a run isn't viable until the very end, and by comparison that's a terrible place to put an rng check for a problem with basically a brute force solution

[@avena7506]

I agree that it probably won't happen. But in the smb1 community, I also believed 4:54 would never happen. Don't be optimistic to the point of naivety but also never give up all hope.

[@m.zangdar6987]

I remember very well how a guy said that the 64 heat run of Hades was near impossible and to have the necessary load out not to beat the run, but have A CHANCE OF BEING AVAILABLE OF BEATING THE RUN, was 1 in 2 million or something. A week later someone achieved the run after years of tryint.

[@avena7506]

@@m.zangdar6987 They figured out Bow doesn't work and got dat god sheild rng

[@RealSilGaming]

You cannot compare an old NES platformer to a bullet hell RPG. On NES, the RNG can be manipulated as it is tied to the time it takes to clear the game. Here, we have no RNG manipulation techniques, at least, none that have been found that we can use to our advantage.

[@avena7506]

@RealSilGaming I didn't make it clear enough. I made an abstract comparison about the idea of the impossible becoming reasonable with time and knowledge, I had zero concern with legitimate applicability when it came to the comment. I'm sorry if my comment left a bad taste in your mouth.

[@i_guess109]

lol, this reminds me of how there was a celeste copypasta about how it was impossible to complete all the chapters deathless, and then someone decided to do 202 deathless (full game completion, basically. run was a little over 5 hours long iirc). it took them two years of consistently running (with multiple runs per session, many lasting hours long), but it happened eventually. of course, celeste _is_ basically 100% pure skill, and there aren't really any factors of luck involved like there are here. but hey, with enough dedication, just maybe, right? (if you don't know what celeste is, it's a pretty cool 2d platforming game with a pixel artstyle. it's known for being a difficult but fair platformer and for being very speedrun-able. the story and music are also pretty cool, and i'd definitely recommend it to people looking for a neat platformer, or just any ol' casual player, as long as they keep in mind that they're playing a platformer and not an rpg or a metroidvania!)

[@tks2072]

I think the main issue is that celeste is pure skill as you said. So, BECAUSE it's 100% skill based, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, with enough practice and planning. It will eventually be beatable. But also, a MAJORITY of Undertale's main issues with RNG are basically at the end of an extremely long run. I'd be significantly more ideal if like it was Toriel that was causing the problems, or something... But.... It's not exclusively just Asriel, Asriel is like the final boss of RNG yes, but you STILL technically are needing to play back-to-back extremely difficult randomized potentially impossible to evade bosses at the very end of a run. No amount of practice or preparation can stop bad RNG on any one of these areas that can make an evasion literally impossible. Not to mention the extreme length of the run can mentally tax people into getting hit by doable things, it's just not realistically sustainable.

[@wrigthtalekenavi2066]

and i was about to say because Asriel Dreemurr's "Burn in Despair" stage, as the rainbow shots are both hard to predict, comes from both sides, and numerus enough to make you lose focus on some of the bullets that comes in your way. but yes, Omega/Photoshop Flowey fight is the Acidtrip of UT too.

[@roofogato]

I know nothing about Undertale and yet you managed to keep my attention throughout the video. Cool

[@Hansom2309]

Is that roofogato?

[@roofogato]

@@Hansom2309 NO WAY

[@Hansom2309]

@@roofogato LMAO

[@SworldWorldYT]

There has only been one instance (that we know of) of a true asriel nohit, but it took a VERY long time, which proves that P4 is possible, but if it does happen, its gonna be years until we even see progress.

[@AkaObbies]

we need that one guy who was able to no hit asriel

[@uncroppedsoop]

just on account of Undertale's massive presence online I do expect it to _eventually_ happen, but I'll be damned if I live to see it lol anyways, one question, why would a neutral nohit be required for a true pacifist nohit? I seem to remember being able to stop and go back before the end of neutral in order to immediately follow the pacifist route

[@Crumbaa]

can’t skip any bosses

[@whereismyrootbeer]

eenox has done the full asriel nohit, including the comet rain attack. That is, it wasn't at the end of the run, but surely it'll be done within this decade

[@polishscribe674]

Ok so I gotta ask: do people know Sea Tea increases your speed? Bc it's a very random item, it's not in it's descryption and tbh... When was the last time you made it to Gerson without already having a supply of healing items?

[@RealSilGaming]

I do use Sea Tea when fighting Asriel because it makes Hyper Goner easier

[@polishscribe674]

@@RealSilGaming glad to know I didn't accidently revolutionize the niche I'm not very intrested.

[@itsentdev]

nooooooo i'm sure that the people with thousands and thousands of hours in this 6-hour game who know every inch of the source code and engine don't know what sea tea is

[@polishscribe674]

@@itsentdev I was just checking to be sure, sheesh.

[@Blanktester685]

@@itsentdev I'm sure you are fun at parties and have lots of friends and family that love you, definitely haven't gotten molested at age 12...

[@dogf421]

i think its hard to really overstate how bad those phase 4 attacks are.

[@Luigifan4ever11]

It's like you said - it's very very very unlikely it'll ever happen, but people have said that in regards to many games and we've seen a madman tear through it. I won't get my hopes up or trick myself into believing it will happen, but I do pray it does, one day. Out of curiousity, has someone made a segmented no-hit? I know some people have no-hitted the entire Asriel bossfight (Eenox comes to mind), and it'd be interesting to see the theoretical perfect run.

[@orangeaurora]

my opinion is, with how popular undertale is, and the allure of asriel being the one base game boss nobodys done hitless in a full game run, considering that it isnt strictly impossible AND given enough time, no hit pacifist absolutely will happen. will it be within a year? almost for sure no. 5 years? maybe. 10 years? that might even be likely. but since its not impossible, and since high level undertale players (weird thing to say tbh but if someone went out of their way to no hit last breath phase 3 i think its fair) are gonna keep going at it, i see it more as a monkey typewriter situation.

[@rxndomfxndom7405]

This. This is how I see it

[@crossoverworlds2678]

Part of me wonders if there's some kind of way to use RNG manipulation to no-hit phase 4. You can probably count frames using the background thanks to the color changes and it being moving, and if you need to do it during phase 4 you can probably use his wings as well. Someone would have to experiment to see if that's possible, but if it can be done in Pokemon (activating things at a specific frame to get a specific pokemon like a shiny zigzagoon with max IVs and perfect nature and ability), it might be possible with Asriel. I'm not a programmer though but if no one's tried it extensively beforehand, why not attempt it here? Although I understand if RNG manipulation would invalidate a true no-hit pacifist run.

[@RealSilGaming]

Many attempts were made, but there were no successful efforts. If there is any RNG manipulation at all, it would likely have to be down to the millisecond which would be impossible to meet by human standards.

[@crossoverworlds2678]

@@RealSilGaming Ah. Well it was worth the shot to ask anyway, there's a ton you can do with RNG manip. Who knows, maybe someone will find a way to manipulate it. Cant underestimate human determination in trying to do a seemingly 'pointless' task.

[@tychozzyx9439]

I have extreme confidence in the speedrunning community. Even if it takes decades, there are crazy people willing to muscle through "impossible" tricks or "unrealistic" lengths.

[@user-du4qx7mh4d]

Here i was thinking that its because of the final laser attack when your health goes into decimals

[@remix2593]

I'm pretty sure that's not counted due to being impossible to dodge

[@Czesnek]

Usually when someone makes a video about a challenge that is almost impossible to complete somebody will actually beat it soon after.

[@advicedogsyt2185]

I once beat the first three phases of Asriel on my first try by accident. I have never been able to do it again since.

[@justaralseifan]

i have 6 thousand hours (console and switch) on this game, its time for me to make an attempt, i'll probably fail miserably, but i managed to no hit touhou 6 up until flandre anyway, on lunatic so bullet hell is my go to game genre.

[@RealSilGaming]

I wish you good luck. You're definitely going to need it.

[@williewillus]

flandre is an extra boss, lunatic isn't a thing there. And besides, lunatic is harder than extra in all mainline touhou games.

[@aidyy10]

Just gotta wait until a cosmic ray flips a bit to skip Asriel

[@1ProAssassin]

Max heat in hades was done. It's why I believe anything is possible.

[@NoName-oz3gj]

Exact same thing I was thinking. If they can do that, they can do this

[@stonethemason12]

It's possible someone has done it and just didn't record it. A moment of silence for that hypothetical person...

[@ComatoseState]

2:15 nah bro, I murked him first try😂😂 We ain’t gonna talk about me playing deltarune first

[@PrintThem]

I'd like some guy to make a no hit pacifist stream where he can use saves, but only the yellow ones. So in asriel fight, if they dies, they restart the fight..

[@SilvercattoOsom]

Merg: Allow me to introduce myself

[@enderlezzoinfame6064]

POV: Eenox: I've already done that!

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

I assumed the wall for no hit true pacifist would be So Cold.

[@glasspicaro]

I guess I'm going to have to step in..

[@I_am_a_skeleton898]

Asriel without hopes and dreams feels so weird

[@heliphino]

I was hoping you would do more to explain the scale of the difficulty in these challenges for someone that isn't intimately familiar with the run already. More information about why each challenge is so brutal, rather than just "you have to pray to RNJesus." I think this is almost a very interesting video, but I found it a bit difficult to follow, even as someone that is into speedrunning and has played Undertale, but has not followed Undertale speedrunning. Maybe this is a video that's for a smaller subset of a community, but wanted to leave some hopefully helpful feedback!

[@driestofthebones806]

Took the power of an actual god to stump no-hits.

[@crcker3841]

how do people watch the entirety of this well-made video and then still insist that a no-hit run will happen eventually

[@awezome-z3539]

It already happened way long before this video check the guy named "eenox" the video is 4 years old named true not hit asriel (first ever)

[@i_guess109]

okay, the reply above me clearly hasn't finished watching the video, so ignore them. they aren't an accurate representation of the rest of us "it'll-happen-eventually"-ers! the main reason as to why we say this is because of how it's happened time and time again in video game history. celeste is a platformer notorious for giving players an ungodly high death count. a few years ago, people were still insisting that getting all the golden berries in celeste (golden berries are given when you complete an entire level deathless, and if you die, you get sent to the very start of the level, and a death is added to your death count) in one save was impossible, and then someone did an entire 100% completion run of the game in one sitting (run length was a little over 5 hours) without dying. i don't really know much about the hades 64 heat run, but other people in the comments know about it. it was also proclaimed as impossible, but someone ended up completing it. can't forget about the beloved infinite monkey theorem!! the infinite monkey theorem states that if you let a monkey hit the keys of a typewriter at random an infinite amount of times, eventually the monkey will type out the entire works of shakespeare. of course, we don't have infinite time, but since undertale's a _pretty popular_ game, and the chances to not get hit are a lot better than a monkey randomly pressing keys to type shakespeare, there's a very good and plausible chance that it'll happen eventually! improbable isn't impossible, and this isn't improbable enough for it to become impossible. (the speedrun length is really not the biggest concern here, plenty of other game's hitless runs have been done with longer run lengths! some people just might be insane enough to go for it.) there is a chance, slim as it may be (though also just big enough for it to be within the realm of possibility), it exists!

[@weatherman1504]

Because improbable =/= impossible. This has been proven time and time again. You remember when Trimming the Herbs was thought impossible due to the creator cheating? Well, it got beaten anyway What I do know for certain, is that when (not if, WHEN) this gets beaten, the person who does it will be a god among gamers and will be apparently objectively better than the entire TouHou fandom (they've already made the point that they think it impossible).

[@abyssreborn4213]

Because they're stupid. It won't.

[@GrayscaleRain]

What I would do, and this has probably already been done, so forgive me if it's a dead end. But what I'd do is I'd take the footage from these runs (or any runs will work as long as the footage can be made to be the same screen resolution) and overlay the instances of the moves to see if there's anywhere that the stars/shooting lasers don't go. Like, are the patterns /completely/ random, or are there any safe spots that need to be discovered? Are there /repeating/ patterns? That sort of thing, just from pouring over the footage that's already there. I don't know about mechanics or a lot of the guts of the game itself, but sometimes the obvious ideas are the ones that people simply don't consider. Like I said, someone's probably tried it, but it never hurts to say something.

[@RealSilGaming]

Sadly, we've tried everything to manipulate the RNG, to no avail. We've tried by brute force over thousands of runs, even I have devoted many hours to it myself to try and find a strategy, and still found no success. It is an unbreakable part of the game, and unless someone can trigger an RNG manipulation directly in the game's memory or we discover a way to trigger it with changing our PC features, it's probably going to stay that way forever.

[@BrownHairL]

Provided that the game remains a classic for, say the few coming decades, which it looks like it will, instead, it's inevitably gonna happen. So many more difficult feats with lower odds have happened - I have my impressive feats in differente games where I'm actually good at and had to rely on RNG regardless, though surely not quite like this - this is too frustrating and I and many others who would like to see it done may never try it seriously because it's one more crazy challenge run game to worry about - I'm sure this is a matter of time. If the world doesn't come to an end it will be done.

[@AnimationDude_]

This is what they've been trying to tell us all along, we can do it as long as we stay determined oh, right. Asriel is above your determination and is damn near impossible

[@Yoshikiller109]

is there a link to the spreadsheets shown throughout the video?

[@jacobf.1691]

Someone did no hit Asriel, but imagine having to reset EACH TIME YOU GET HIT. Probably impossible i got hit by whimsum lol

[@Thecoolthing_]

They hope, they dream

[@IAMALIVEIAMALIVEEEEEEE]

Rawrrrr maybe if someone tried for a few years every day it could happen

[@awesome118-smmo]

Video title in a few months: “I was WRONG! No Hit Pacifist Just Happened!”

[@RealSilGaming]

I'll remember that.

[@Krondies]

it's gonna be done at some point, there's lot's of people out there and while true that the game is now "old", some crackhead will come and farm that lucky run out (no disregard to everyone who made progress towards it

[@seven7264]

As a GD player, this feels like Silent Circles if it had a random trigger controlling the win or not.

[@TheRealDoorsflix]

Ngl Phomega flowey is a sick name, ima call it that from now on

[@lauziyi5728]

Asriel do be trollin’

[@theoverseer1775]

You know, there's already been a person who beat Asriel no hit, INCLUDING the almost impossible attack. His name is Een or something. Now we just need the entirety of true pacifist with the good RNG of that fight.

[@someone-ww4jk]

I remember seeing someone make a video saying how unlikely it was to beat hades with 64 heat and only a few days later did someone beat it so ngl I'm expecting taht now or at least someone attempting this we may need a certain cherry to help us out

[@unknowed5048]

merg got past Azeral first phase without bring hit but the second part is the one he couldn't get through when Azeral starts to spam projectiles (not counting that attack where it brings you to 0.00000000001 hp)

[@Monoflower2]

So, I know you took down the old video that explains how Undertale breaks when it’s left AFK for ridiculous amounts of time. But I can’t help but wonder if there’s some sort of exploit that could be gleaned from that. We know it affects the animations, do we know if affects attack patterns?

[@RealSilGaming]

Sadly, no.

[@crazybakabaka]

So I'm not familiar with the ethics of the runs at all, but why are NG+ runs looked down on? To me it seems like Photoshop is not an intended part of a run where you get the Pacifist ending and is instead replaced with Asriel. What is the reason behind adding the excess fatigue of the first run?

[@narakarrarr6191]

Just wanna say this remunds me if the 64 Heat hades run....

[@AdgjAdgj-ho5bf]

5 years later theres gonna be a video essay: how one undertale player did the IMPOSSIBLE

[@thereinforcementshavearriv8288]

Summoning salt video, cue the music

[@krippanus]

2:08 i almost beat PF/OF first try on my first playthrough but i died at the middle of the "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO OBEY ME!!!" part so idk i guess im just go goated

[@FUSusanWonk]

Does "glitched no hit" make sense as a category tho? It won't change a lot since you can't skip Flowey and Asriel, but generally that makes the run quite shorter by skipping all hotland/core and true lab bosses. And if that's still to hard, how hard would a "spliced no hit" be? i.e. you can save any time and if you got hit you load.

[@RealSilGaming]

Spliced no hit is obviously a lot easier but it's generally discouraged for the purposes of theorycrafting.

[@coomstars]

Mainly, no-hit pacifist is typically skill based until asriel. where rng slaps you in the face :) *pain* Ive tried to no-hit the over-spam attack asriel did by just running a simulator where i can custom make the attacks, and it is just painful, constant suffering basically.

[@D_YellowMadness]

Long shot here & it would only help a little at best but does using a bad memory count as a hit & does it give invincibility frames if you start your turn immediately after using it?

[@RealSilGaming]

Bad Memory does count, yes

[@Sandstheskeleton]

The odds of true pacifist no hit is probably similar to the chances of triple gaster door

[@RealSilGaming]

The chances are low, but they're definitely not in the billions, or even the millions.

[@pideperdonus2]

Asriel true hitless (except the last attack obviously) is possible, but I still believe that someone with enough Patience, can be lucky enough to finish it.

[@owonapikins]

This could be a dumb suggestion, nor do I even know if it's possible, but would RNG manipulation be possible so you get a seed that allows you to survive the attack?

[@RealSilGaming]

MFM tried and failed. Speedrunners tried and failed. TAS creators in general tried, and despite technical knowledge, have found no success.

[@plugshirt1762]

I mean it absolutely will happen one day seeing as it’s entirely possible and the game is very popular. It’s just that it’s a task so devoid of any enjoyment and luck based that there is little actual incentive to do so. It’s only a matter of time until it is done one day but there’s not much incentive for someone to actively make it their goal to chase for an extended period of time when it’s determined by something out of your control.

[@RealSilGaming]

I'm trying to get it, lmao

[@rupture2902]

I've seen asriel be beaten no-hit, but I doubt someone will do an entire true pacifist run AND asriel

[@Rokii522]

Its giving Haelian abt hades max heat

[@v_oid6471]

even though eenox no hit asriel’s full fight, that took FOREVER, no shot it would happen after an entire neutral run AND true lab.

[@justinbaker4608]

Constructive criticism for this video: I was left with more questions after watching it than before. Is Azrael impossible to do no-hit? What are the 4 hits you took in your WR run? What are the 2 hits the best theoretical run takes? I still don’t understand why I’ll probably never see a no-hit pacifist run. If exhaustion is the issue, is it possible to take a time loss and take a break mid-run? Complete a quick touch grass percent and come back?

[@RealSilGaming]

Asriel isn't impossible to no-hit, he has been done before by several people, myself included. It's just the matter of no-hitting him at the end of an already manic run which goes up to 2 hours in length, even when playing optimally.

[@Slender_Man_186]

I’d say the best way to tackle this is from a speed running point of view: can it be done on a TAS, and are the inputs viable during a normal playthrough?

[@RealSilGaming]

This challenge has been done with TAS, unfortunately the reaction time is not viable for a human run.

[@JuiceAce69]

I completely agree that likely a human would never do it. I mean even with the idea of like infinite monkeys on type writers there’s so many variables in Undertale that I can see why it’s impossible. BUT. I will say this. I absolutely want to see a TAS of hitless true pacifist. TAS may not count for any form of speedrun but it would be amazing to see what theoretically those would look like

[@RealSilGaming]

TAS already exists for No Hit True Pacifist. This video was about just the matter of a human doing that.

[@cobaltwastaken]

Somewhere in the world, there is a person who has done this, but never recorded it, I am betting you that

[@jorgemtzb9359]

This is going to summon some incredibly player to get incredibly stupidly lucky and get the right odds just like it happened with hades with that other "this run is ipmossible cuz you'd need to win the lottery kinda luck" video on hades

[@jojonono2679]

Great video

[@Xandertank09]

Someone has beaten asriel no hit. I remember seeing that last year

[@username5155]

At the very least we know we can get TO Asriel no-hit AND we can BEAT Asriel no-hit. But the fact that you have to do an ENTIRE OTHER RUN FIRST and then do the amalgamates (even though a lot of them have permanent safe spots) JUST so you can TRY Asriel makes this theoretically impossible to do IN PRACTICE. Asriel not only has some attacks that are hard to dodge execution-wise (One day I shall finally dodge Shocker Breaker. I did it once in deltatraveler and I can do it in Undertale too, I just know it), but also the crazy RNG attack with an at most 3% chance of even having a place that the soul can exist without getting hit on a given frame. Literally the only idea I have that will definetly not work because A. It’s not possible, B. It wouldn’t work, and C. It’d only affect phase 1, would be to somehow stop Asriel’s “True final battle” from beginning and keeping him using fire magic. Unless there’s a way to play the “Asriel breaks The Barrier with the power of dead kids and friendship” cutscene without doing the fight, this is just and infinite uphill battle againt _ The Absolute GOD of Hyperdeath!_ for the rest of the now non-linear time left in the universe.

[@adamgreenspan4988]

If the Herbs can be Trimmed…

[@weatherman1504]

I was wondering when someone would mention this. People can't comprehend that improbable =/= impossible. This will be done eventually. All of the TouHou players who are adamant that it's objectively impossible will look very dumb.

[@_TRB_]

Merg:I like those odds

[@DannyDaPro]

Merg can’t even no hit flowey bro💀💀

[@minerminecrafter464]

@@DannyDaPro yeah he can he has done way harder bosses no hit

[@DannyDaPro]

@@minerminecrafter464 I’m not hating on merg, he is a great KZbinr but he is nowhere near the best player. His hardest achievement is bad time trio no hit, which as been done by tons of people. Many MANY people have also done far harder stuff, for example sil as done a lot harder stuff.

[@DannyDaPro]

Also bad time trio is way easier than flowey no hit. As someone who has done it, I am certain of it. I have talked to other runners and it is basically universally agreed on.

[@_TRB_]

@@DannyDaPro Bro is trying so hard to rage bait

[@Koiishi_Komeiji]

Haven't watched yet, but here's my guesses: 1) Omega flowey is very long battle to nohit, made to be more bullet-hell like 2) LEMON BREEAD 3) Asriel Dreemurr: God of rng

[@RealSilGaming]

You're correct Well, not with Lemon Bread, it's more Reaper Bird that is the issue

[@Sisyphus...]

Considering there's already a no-hit of asriel, it's mainly a matter of no time, basically.

[@fatorias2635]

lmao

[@tks2072]

I mean you can theoretically say that about anything even with RNG. Problem is finding a person to put in the sheer effort required to do back-to-back end game areas that can have some very difficult RNG that can make runs flat out impossible. Combined with the long length of the run, they also have to stave off mental exhaustion. It's not that they can't do it, it's that it's very much unlikely because to spend almost an entire workday doing run after run to get to the end to lose to RNG over and over would be... Very difficult. Especially when you consider that only a handful of people have EVER been able to no hit some of these bosses all on their own without having to go through the entire game for every single attempt.

[@oolooo]

Seeing Undertale content in 2024 is so soothing to my soul , it fills me with joy .

[@RealSilGaming]

Undertale as a game will never truly die, the scene lives on in the form of fangames and web comics.

[@everynameiwantistaken]

Well how about eenox's no hit asriel? That seems like a step forward right? If Asriel could be no hit, where did the other 2 hits come from?

[@RealSilGaming]

Eenox never tried going for a full no-hit run. The best attempt at no-hit Asriel that was ever achieved was a 2-hit run, that's where the 2 hits come from.

[@everynameiwantistaken]

@@RealSilGaming Oh I see, I'm just interested since I didn't really consider a full straight playthrough. I thought segments were taken from all runs.

[@yoshimanrpg]

Yeah, I don't like when people say that something will NEVER happen. So many things have been proven possible, both in and out of speed-running. I call absolute bullshit. Rules are meant to be broken, and limits are just another kind of rule.

[@weatherman1504]

Yeah, this video is going to age like coke-milk left out in the summer sun for several weeks.

[@Bengt2509]

“PROBABLY”

[@iwersonsch5131]

One thing I like to do when i design a very hard section in SM64 is to practice it at slower speeds and slowly ramp it up to 100% speed after practice. Could you do the same for Asriel's 4th phase?

[@RealSilGaming]

Nope.

[@iwersonsch5131]

@@RealSilGaming Is the modding community not advanced enough for that? unfortunate Still, even a mod to just put Asriel's 4th phase at the start could help with strat development and practice

[@RealSilGaming]

@@iwersonsch5131 There already exists a mod that helps with practice, the Godhome mod made by me. Even if you have that, it doesn't help as there are NO STRATS FOR RNG FARMING.

[@iwersonsch5131]

@@RealSilGaming So it is known that, even with a lot of slowdown practice, the vast majority of patterns are fully unsolvable and impossible?

[@RealSilGaming]

@@iwersonsch5131 Correct.