"Why Not PSL?": Thoughts on the US Elections, Obstacles to the US Left, Bernie Sanders, DSA, & More

[@SocialismForAll]

This video on Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/why-not-psl-on-115099186?Link& This video on Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/socialismforall/why-not-psl-thoughts-on-the-us-elections-obstacles-to-the-us-left-bernie-sanders-dsa-more This video on Spotify: podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/socialismforall/episodes/Why-Not-PSL--Thoughts-on-the-US-Elections--Obstacles-to-the-US-Left--Bernie-Sanders--DSA---More-e2qd7ul This video on Substack: open.substack.com/pub/socialismforall/p/why-not-psl-thoughts-on-the-us-elections?r=2wwfgr&showWelcomeOnShare=true

[@AnonymousThinker-zz9dz]

Thank you

[@fingerhair]

Feels like the more I learn the more I think "Lenin refuted this over 100 years ago" whenever someone talks about politics lol

[@rjcgy713]

His writings to me have more impact than any other author I've read in the last few years. I don't think prescience is a strong enough word.

[@KozelPraiseGOELRO]

...or Marx, over 200 years ago.

[@SocialismForAll]

@KozelPraiseGOELRO ".or Marx, over 200 years ago" Yes although Lenin often times even more so as he was speaking specifically to the era of imperialism (advanced monopoly capitalism), which developed after Marx and which we are still in today.

[@oceantransistor]

I'm all for people voting outside of the two party system. I personally voted for Claudia but don't try to dunk on Jill supporters. I think it is important to build both parties and orgs so they can educate, organize and mobilize on common interests when possible.

[@tonycanelo2519]

I’ve been a lurker on this channel for awhile now. it really helps to have these books made available in audio format. I feel as if I have learned a lot up to this point and now feel compelled to start getting more active. In no small part due to this channel and the reality of the situation we find ourselves. Thanks.

[@jackieAZ]

I voted for the Green Party earlier this week, and democrats locally since that’s all I had the option for. I left Cpusa and am looking into getting involved with the greens

[@EulaliaDaisy]

I met with a PSL member and she kept not answering my questions on some theoretical works. This made me think that she doesn't know much about even the basics of Lenin. I understand if you're just starting out, but - considering that it's an "exclusive" membership - I would expect at least a basic understanding. I asked if they had reading parties, and they said that they were focused on membership rather than reading groups right now. This is stupid, reading parties are very easy to do online.

[@nukadirtbag9373]

I think t's pretty weird a vanguard party doesn't even have a recommended reading list on its website personally. PSL and CPUSA both are lacking reading lists, which they should have given you'd want members of a communist party to be fairly advanced

[@inuyasha142314]

Why is your bar for psl so much higher than greens?

[@SocialismForAll]

@inuyasha142314 "Why is your bar for psl so much higher than greens?" As I discussed in the video, PSL is a vanguard party, and the Greens are a big-tent mass left party.

[@EulaliaDaisy]

@@inuyasha142314 cause they, in their name, say that they are a socialist party. If anything, I think the bare minimum is having a reading group that discusses political theory especially for a "vanguard party" S4A's comment also sums it up well

[@SilverXenolupus]

I think, to be fair, there aren't that many people willing to do activism on the level required by PSL. So it becomes a party of doers over knowers. I imagine as the party grows, there will be people who will join who will inevitably pull the party in the right direction.

[@animexamera]

I disagree with the point that the US or any other country needs a mass party rather than a vanguard party. The kind of left party that has all kinds of people from left liberals to marxist leninist communists doesn't work and I think both the Left Party of Germany or Communist party of Austria (which tries to be a mass party) have failed at doing exactly that. Both of them support Israel, although some local groups are vocal Palestine supporters. Disagreements like this ending up with a situation where only the most basic points can be decided upon, like petitioning for a limit on rents, while ignoring the myriad of other problems. If you want to build a mass movement you need a ideologically rigid party, that doesn't change it's lines on a monthly basis, that does what it says (as opposed to saying no to war, but standing for weapon deliveries to Ukraine and Israel). This is not possible in a mass party. The only reason that I think there is for organizing within the Greens, PSL or other left organisation, is that you neither have the ressources, knowledge or comrades to start an actual vanguard party.

[@SocialismForAll]

Counterpoint: as you've described you already have social democratic and mass left parties doing basic work as representatives of a workers' movement. We don't. I think you underestimate how bad/undeveloped the political situation is here. Also, the A"C"P was the most recent attempt to form a vanguard, and this is basically I think what's going to keep happening until the overall movement improves.

[@KJR_Van]

@@SocialismForAll While I agree forming a vanguard out of thin air typically goes nowhere, I also think those with an interest in anti-revisionism (really Leninism, as you describe in the video) should organize amongst themselves as well. This is not to say that its *all* one should do. Participating in the organization of a mass worker's movement is, as you laid out, of vital importance. However, it is also important for a vanguard to be developed alongside such mass movements, not after. Why should these things be developed together? Imagine that the Green party finally begins to build the mass public support the Bernie movement gained. Such a development would be an immediate and obvious threat to the ruling class. They would attempt to invalidate it almost immediately. This would happen incrementally. The ruling class might first attempt to discredit the movement. If that fails, they will try to co-opt the movement. If that doesn't work, they will undoubtedly meet it with violence. It is integral, then, that when this mass movement grows to such a stage where it faces these kinds of challenges, that a vanguard party already be sufficiently developed to take command as to protect and lead the movement. As we lay the framework of a mass movement, we can, at the same time, organize amongst other Leninists who are working within these mass movements, and through the struggle within these movements and amongst each other, develop an actually correct political line based in the reality of the movement itself. A vanguard must begin somewhere, just as a mass movement must begin somewhere. There are groups like the MCU (Maoist Communist Union) who identify themselves as this sort of 'pre-vanguard party' organization, and who currently work within labor unions and other mass organizations in an attempt not only to help create the mass movement necessary, but also to properly prepare for such a moment, laying out the basic framework of a vanguard party, while not rushing in to establish themselves as some kind of authority over the worker's movement in their own right. A rush to establishing a 'party' like this is basic adventurism. In the same breath we also must not tail the workers, only helping organize mass movements without attempting to lay the framework necessary to eventually lead and protect them. Instead our goal is to help develop a mass movement worth leading, and, at the same time, a party worth leading it. One last point: This isn't even to say that the MCU will end up being the base for an actual future vanguard party which leads a mass movement. As you mention, groups come and go. However, regardless of the status of the MCU as an organization itself, I really think the core idea of it is good and should be pursued.

[@animexamera]

@@SocialismForAll Yeah we do and they suck ass, why would you make them a prerequisite for a vanguard party? I get the point that a lot of people in the US are just doing internet discussion without meaninfull organizing and in this sense I think it makes sense to organize within a broader organisation like the Greens or PSL. However not because the US needs a vanguard party, but because it doesn't have one at the moment and it is too hard to form one for individual people. I think that any proper vanguard party will be able to do a better job at educating the masses than any broad leftist party. I don't oppose the idea of supporting the Greens and organizing with them, I just think it's stupid to say that they are a prerequisite for a vanguard party.

[@romanmeneghinister1584]

So what is to stop leninists from organizing within the greensto push the movement while also meeting and coordinating with other leninists. Once they have organized within and formed a strong enough unit, couldn't we either usurp the reformists, or split from them as the Bolsheviks did with the mensheviks. As I see it, an independent party is a good start to finding people who will already be receptive towards Marxism leninism when otherwise we would need to seek them out on our own accord.​@@KJR_Van

[@romanmeneghinister1584]

I believe that this sort of organizing and recruiting of interested and principled working people should be done among dsa, cpusa, and the unions that currently exist

[@strawberryJen711]

while i did recently vote psl, I also just reached out to my chapter of the green party, they got back to me immediately and I'm about to fill out their form, i figure i can dual card with them and DSA since i'll be droppping cpusa. I'd encourage other to do the same

[@duskyflathead4483]

Is there not a zionist problem in DSA? how does that compare against CPUSA? I'm australian so i might be wrong tho

[@nballs4200]

​@@duskyflathead4483a varies per city, investigue your local DSA to find out

[@conmereth]

​​@@duskyflathead4483That was the case historically but after the DSA's membership exploded from 2016 onwards a stronger anti-colonial presence has established itself leading to many of the Zionist elements of the organization to disaffiliate last year following it's October 7th statement.

[@sjnok2905]

I'm in one of the 4 states that doesn't have green party on the ballot or recognized as a write in. We only have Dems, Reps, and Libertarians. The word democracy, to americans, doesn't mean anything. It's all vibes; a reflection of the prevailing liberal ideology. Recently I started "Liberalism, a counter history" by Dominico Losurdo and it's shocking how accurately he lays out liberalism. And the most interesting thing about Marxism to me, is how, when you learn to understand the method, you can connect and apply observations to every aspect of life. Thus within the history of liberalism, you can see why everything which is done and said today is the way it is, and vice versa. I think Miyamoto Musashi said it best in his classic quote: "from one thing, know ten thousand things."

[@TheAzul_Indigo]

I’m registered PSL but I voted green yesterday when I did a little research and found the only solid policy proposal on the PSL program was capping rents at 10%. Every other sentence was theoretical. Like, I know it’s a long shot but “could be” isn’t giving me the confidence that you have a systematic program for dismantling capitalism. The greens have very specific aims listed out on a good website. It’s like they’re trying even though they know they won’t win.

[@scold-y4f]

I appreciate the honesty and concise and clear points as you have always.Not from America but i appreciate your study especially from the livestream. Keep going &much love .

[@deathislife1993]

I am a former delegate to the Green National Committee, but I've always skewed more 'hard-left' than the average Green. Jill Stein isn't an option in my state, but Claudia is (and Cornel, but I've always had issues with him), so I voted for Claudia. At the end of the day, I'm not sure I share your thoughts on them being revisionist, but that aside, I think as long as someone is voting for one or the other, they're a comrade who can be convinced on any minutia of important. Thank you so much for mentioning the point that a lot of the people complaining about Greens and their abilities aren't actually helping or trying to help the party. People expect joining the Greens to be the same as the Democrats or Republicans, where infrastructure is already in place, and they don't have to do anything at all if they don't want to, and they'll still have candidates, ballot access, all of that. Obviously, that's not the case (and not to nitpick, but there are more than a few states right now that don't even have an active Green Party). My suggestion to the left has always been to join the Greens, move them more toward Marxist-Leninism, and because the party is smaller, it's actually quite possible (seriously, the National Committee ranged from social democrats who actually said we should vote for Kamala to Trotskyists to hippie capitalists to Marxists; there is very little ideological cohesion, so a push from multiple state delegates could easily move the party).

[@ghulammahboobahmadsiddique8272]

I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree on the need of a mass party over a vanguard party. I would've fully agreed with you even a few months ago. But recent events have changed my mind. Back in June, we had what was seemingly an unshakable dictatorship. The last 3 elections were rigged and it seemed our dictator was going to rule till she died of old age. And then minor protests over job quotas began. 3 weeks later, we marched on parliament. The speed at which a revolutionary situation astounded me. I didn't think we really needed a vanguard party before July (we had like half a dozen parties which claimed to be the vanguard but they were all revisionist). But the speed of the July revolution showed me that even when we think a revolutionary situation is distant, we still need to have a vanguard party ready. Because if we did indeed have a real vanguard party in this country, we would've had a socialist revolution instead of another bourgeois democratic revolution. I'm not informed enough on the American situation to say what American comrades should do but they should know that a revolutionary situation could arise from seemingly nowhere in no time at all.

[@SocialismForAll]

As I discussed in the section at 26:12, the USA has vanguard parties; they just keep turning out terribly. At least 2/3 of the educational efforts that I make on this channel are toward educating a would-be vanguard, so I do think it's important. But in terms of the overall situation of mass struggle in the US, it's low, so I think that, having interacted a lot with the vanguard through running this channel, our situation is that we need more active struggle within the broad masses to balance things out. I think this is actually a missing ingredient in *developing* the vanguard we need currently.

[@RexPomaro]

@@SocialismForAll what do you think about the potential for DSA to turn itself into a vanguard? It’s got a Marxist majority now and most members want it to be a party

[@SocialismForAll]

@RexPomaro "what do you think about the potential for DSA to turn itself into a vanguard" Yeah I mentioned DSA at the end of this video or in the following one. I think the left overall is still quite inchoate, and any of these big-tent groups could spawn something.

[@RexPomaro]

@ yeah lol I commented before I watched. I think I’m going to join DSA soon, their caucus list and general reputation as a good group kind of sets them apart to me. I’m pretty hopeful about their future

[@SocialismForAll]

@RemPomaro "yeah lol I commented before I watched" Lot of that going around, it seems lol

[@Christopher-gp9iv]

Very important discussion I have had to engage in myself several times. The PSL knows better.

[@ronbunn1349]

I’ve gotten that vibe before too. Like, they’re making a long term, high-risk investment that China will actually do the sudden 180 back onto the socialist road, maybe even something like the Comintern emerging again, and PSL is hoping the CPC will smile fondly on the years of apologia done by PSL for them.

[@Christopher-gp9iv]

@@ronbunn1349 Yeah, it's gross and blatantly transparent to any person following them. After the readings done on this channel alone, I feel it's a massive tactical error that's going to dull their message later on.

[@ronbunn1349]

@@Christopher-gp9iv but at the same time, it’s the only major issue I have with their line, and is it not possible that the cadre can correct this position at some point internally?

[@SocialismForAll]

@ronbunn1349 "is it not possible that the cadre can correct this position at some point internally" It's a major part of their entire geopolitical orientation right now

[@jasonstonefarias8523]

Is there not a more recent article or source you could have found from PSL or Liberation School? Ken Hammond and Gabriel Rockhill also put out more recent work on the issue of China’s multipolarity, BRICS, and “actually existing socialism” that would provide a more comprehensive image of PSL’s orientation toward China. Also, if you generally agree with granting “critical support” to China as a strategic position regardless of whether we interpret China as a rivaling imperialist power or not, then it does come off as somewhat of a more niche disagreement. Honestly I was expecting to hear a much more damning critique of PSL as revisionist and was surprised to only hear you speak about China. Like idk is it really worth calling all of PSL revisionist over their position on China when you would generally agree with them on how they approach China practically and politically?

[@SocialismForAll]

"Is there not a more recent article or source you could have found from PSL or Liberation School?" The point in showing the older article was to show how their line has changed. Clearly in 2007, Becker did not believe that "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" was valid. "Also, if you generally agree with granting “critical support” to China as a strategic position regardless of whether we interpret China as a rivaling imperialist power or not, then it does come off as somewhat of a more niche disagreement." I think this wildly misses the mark. A vanguard party is not merely a social club. It's the leading political body that will guide the proletariat out of capitalism through intense struggle and into socialism. If it has the wrong ideas, potentially millions will die in a failed struggle. "Critical support" to revisionist China against foreign imperialism in 2007 was one thing. Today, with China emerging as a leading imperialist (advanced monopoly capitalist) power in its own right, which is entering into political and economic formations with other emerging imperialist powers, China enters a pivot that typically concludes for countries at this stage of development with becoming an aggressor in their own right. A party which willfully closes its eyes to this and gives it its seal of approval is actively harmful to a revolutionary movement. Again, China and the world were in a different situation in 2007, but we have to pay attention to what's happening now. PSL is engaging in lesser-evilism in an emerging inter-imperialist conflict and possible world war, a position Lenin warned against at length as being of the utmost importance.

[@JuddMaltin7]

Hammond is an amazing scholar. You can hear him in long form interview on Guerrilla History.

[@slipknotboy555]

S4A's response is already great, but some other points: PSL was even being a bit too soft on China even for 2007 - it was already a straight up capitalist country, and bourgeoisie - including BIG bourgeoisie - had even been in the "party" itself for YEARS at that point. And they were already an advanced monopoly capitalist (i.e., *imperialist*) power. PSL is RIDICULOUS about it now. They apparently hold that China *is* socialist. And are often VERY aggressive towards any pushback. Fellow Traveler was literally kicked out of the org after pushing back against the China stuff in an online call type thing. He was very polite and respectful, and yet the lady leading the meeting accused him of all sorts of nonsense. Gee, was it maybe because her position wasn't defensible, so she grasped at (weird) straws because of that? [Yes.] At least you used quotation marks for "actually existing socialism" here, but TRUE "actually existing socialism" is well - ACTUAL socialism. Like the USSR's system from at least around the '30s on, and especially while Stalin was still in the top leadership position.

[@Chrissamurai2]

Commenting for algorithm. I respectfully disagree with your views about PSL and Dengism, your audio library has helped me learn immensely though and I hope both parties grow in tandem.

[@SocialismForAll]

"I respectfully disagree with your views about PSL and Dengism" How so?

[@gabrielmarquez4029]

S4A what’s your opinion on joining DSA as well the Green Party? There are lots of principled like the Red Star caucus struggling against the democrat aligned right wing.

[@SocialismForAll]

Yeah, I got into that at the end of the video, in the section at 26:12. I think it's a no-brainer to mount struggles for DSA chapters, labor unions, and any other organizations engaging in political advocacy to shift their endorsements to the Green Party (also helping to build up local/state Green chapters as needed) from the Dems.

[@gabrielmarquez4029]

⁠@@SocialismForAllappreciate your comment. Your logic for joining the Green Party is what led me to joining DSA years ago. I’ll investigate the local Green Party and see if there’s space for more cooperation. A red green alliance could be beneficial for both groups, especially considering their structures somewhat complement each other (the Greens being a party and DSA being a political organization). Thanks again, hopefully I’ll hear back from the local Greens soon.

[@SocialismForAll]

I hope you hear back and that it's productive.

[@theSnowman414]

Thanks for making this I was in between Greens or PSL. I agree 100% everything you say about the Greens. I was aware PSL had it's issues. CPUSA, for all it's flaws, posted a very detailed list of everything "controversial" about PSL I found useful. Here's to Greens making 5%!!!

[@jasonvillarruel]

Can you post a link to the list? I haven’t heard of it.

[@beautifuldesonance]

Where did they post this?

[@Em-Theassiate8888-mp3uf]

I voted for the Greens for the first time this election season, in part due to you S4A. I really appreciate being able to at least move the smallest of smallest material way now - I feel we can do this now.

[@milantelope]

I voted for De La Cruz as I was part of the SC Workers' Party initiative. However I voted Green in 2020 and I'm glad to see someone who's open-minded and informed and talking sense. Makes me a lot more positive towards reaching out and working to my Green Party.

[@BornTrespasser]

In my opinion, PSL’s presidential campaign is more about advertising for their organization than it is struggling for justice. PSL is only on the ballot in 19 states. They should drop out of the election and endorse Jill Stein to help the Green Party reach the %5 vote threshold to get automatic ballot access and funding in future elections.

[@Casserole_Girl]

💯 about this being for PSLs brand more than doing anything meaningful

[@Motorhomemarx]

direction for real action. Let's move the world, comrade

[@Carmines_liveon]

Another point I think is that the vast majority of Americans will not vote for a party that outright brands itself as socialist because of the large amount of pro status quo and capitalist propaganda we have and are being fed.

[@romanmeneghinister1584]

I think people need to believe the status quo is wrong to be willing to engage in what was considered previously an extreme alternative if they want to make that big leap. A mass party helps them make smaller leaps so it doesn't seem so different and scary

[@Am_Piku]

really glad i watched this! although i already voted and voted for PSL i think i am definitely more sold on the Greens! Going forward i definitely will be doing more for the green party so thank you for this!

[@gabrielmarquez4029]

Same, I voted PSL as well but plan on getting involved with the greens.

[@comradelarry2558]

100% agreed on the PSL and need to re-constitute the broader labor movement in order for a Vanguard to emerge. The Vanguard only emerges (or doesn’t) out of broader struggle in moments of crisis. I do get annoyed personally with Greens/DSA but that’s where the basis of a vanguard can emerge.

[@karlsaintlucy]

I worked with the PSL for a few months at the end of last year/beginning of this year and while I liked the political education and stuff like speak-outs and teach-outs in the community, there were some things about the culture that struck me as uncomradely. Maybe you've addressed this in a podcast or other discussion, but what are your thoughts around trying to organize a working-class mass movement by running a presidential election campaign? It's always struck me as weird that we're reading, like, George Jackson's Blood in My Eye and then turning around and asking people to stump for the socialist candidate for War Criminal in Chief. I think a party's resources could be much better spent coordinating mutual aid and food dispersal and political education on the sidewalk than by pushing a presidential candidate. A lot of us have lost our livelihoods by speaking out against Zionism. And how are we asking people to put their bodies on the streets without even giving them access to basic de-arrest and self-defense training as a matter of basic procedure?

[@SocialismForAll]

"what are your thoughts around trying to organize a working-class mass movement by running a presidential election campaign" I don't think it's a viable strategy. I've always said that 90-95% of the organizing and outreach needs to be non-electorally focused for any left group who runs candidates.

[@AG-el6vt]

I guess it's a side effect of the bipartisan plutocrat system that people just assume a political party is like some consumer commodity, that you just support or not based on the products they sell. Rather than, you know, an organisation of people with political goals.

[@SocialismForAll]

I think that other parties just aren't real to people, also, because they're not involved in the conversation as much. To a lot of people, if it's not on TV, it's not real. They don't always think about who decides what gets on TV though. They're abdicated their thinking to the system that decides for them, think it's in their best interests to trust it.

[@arthursage9358]

This was very insightful.

[@llamagames6803]

Fair, I have been getting involved with a local Spartacus group, trotskyist, they discussed that we should perhaps vote PSL but your video did help me get an understanding of why not, thanks for your efforts

[@diedoktor]

watch out for trotskyists, comrade

[@geraldgreen6794]

Liked the video but respectfully disagree about the PSL. Keep up the good work though. Imma keep organizing with the PSL!

[@SocialismForAll]

Thanks "respectfully disagree about the PSL" Why? I presented a fairly specific argument about this in the video.

[@420_Blushed]

Thanks for this. I hear you about the PSL. im planning on voting Claudia De la Cruz, but I love Jill and voted Green since the Nader era, and I have mostly respect for Brother Cornell. But I'd rather choose a faulty PSL over a big tent greens with an unmanageable mashup of agendas. But more than that, with the unique features of the american electoralism the two party or two wings of ruling class tendencies are bullt for this system and if history tells us anything a progressive or a socialist party at best can eek out at best a blip in the popular vote or electoral college and none of that has happened for over 100 yrs. What would be really ideal would be more education of the working class and a coalition of the left third parties along with dsa as was the case during primary season in California in 22.

[@nothing-2-live-4]

Good vid. Thanks for not roasting me directly even though I left a comment about throwing my vote away for De la Cruz.

[@SephStuff_]

As a very uneducated "baby marxist," I'm wondering if you recommend focusing on studying so that I can have a good grasp on ML and political economy before getting super involved, or if you recommend trying to get involved in organizing even though I don't have a strong grasp of the theory. I understand that getting directly involved in left politics is an effective way to build class consciousness and understanding of the real world struggles, but I feel that I might act in the wrong way because of my general lack of understanding. I'm sorry if this is an ignorant question and thanks for your time!

[@SocialismForAll]

Definitely run through several of the recommended reading lists and make notes and write down your questions as you go, then follow up your questions with additional research. It shouldn't take too long. I think there's a lot of big tent/broad left activism you can get involved with while you're working on this, but I would hold off on joining anything that self-describes as "Marxist" until you feel pretty confident with your studies. A lot of people go the route of "joining CPUSA to learn theory," but you literally could do better on your own. Joining PSL likewise will get you turned around on China. I would say to find some anti-revisionist comrades and study with them before trying to find a larger group.

[@meatharbor]

Another recommendation I can make is involving one's self in local food banks/Food Not Bombs/volunteer school meal programs/clothing drives/etc. since these groups are directly engaging with some of the most blatant and sharply contrasted contradictions in capitalist society in an active manner, are primarily "non-political" and are in regular and direct contact with the working class masses. Folks who prove receptive to agitation or demonstrate existing class consciousness can be organized into politicized versions of existing aid programs when enough have been identified. This proved highly effective both as avenues for organization and agitation for groups like The Black Panthers, who formed "survival programs" in poor communities that served the needs of those communities directly while simultaneously providing them with political knowledge and direction. I'd highly recommend "Revolutionary Suicide" by Huey P. Newton for more information. I'd also recommend Newton's work in general for anyone even vaguely interested in the history of American socialist thought.

[@VeryAsh]

Thanks again for all the stuff you do, and as someone who is a part of a local anti-revisionist ML (and MLM) DSA chapter, I agree. The other groups who study like us are small, and while we try, we're most effective at organizing when collaborating with the broader left. Don't have much of a Green Party presence, unfortunately, but we definitely need to build up energy within the broader left/stay far away from the democratic party.

[@W4jayk854]

Do you mind saying which chapter? I'm looking into joining DSA and have not heard of an ARML chapter. Do you have a website or link?

[@DonDeering]

I agree with all your reasons. We need a labor-based party that fights for the things we need and against the things that harm us. However, I disagree with both you and PSL about China and other international issues. They aren't capitalist, and U.S. parties don't need to do anything but defend China against attacks of the imperialists. China has lifted over 850,000,000 people out of poverty since the 1990s; that doesn’t happen in capitalist countries.

[@SocialismForAll]

"However, I disagree with both you and PSL about China and other international issues. They aren't capitalist, and U.S. parties don't need to do anything but defend China against attacks of the imperialists." No, you actually agree with 2024 PSL on that

[@DonDeering]

@SocialismForAll I still agree with you that the U.S. needs a mass workers party, broadly representing the interests of our class, one that will fight for reforms. That fight will lead to the conclusion that those reforms are not available while the bankers, CEOs and large landlords control the U.S. government.

[@SpiritRed]

Very helpful. Thank you.

[@NoxAeterna-wf4iv]

Hey man! Can you do a video on Social Imperialism of China and Imperialism of India. What I have observed is that, most western Leftists don't talk about it or don't wanna understand it. They think, there's only one imperialism, which is US/Western imperialism. A few weeks ago, Com JT posted a video on his First thought channel. The video was about the Colour Revolution of Bangladesh in the month of August. He portrayed the influence of the US but he completely missed the influence of Indian Imperialism through the Awami League of Former PM Sheikh Hasina.

[@uuuu-h3m]

Politsturm has written material about Chinese and Iranian Imperialism

[@ristekostadinov2820]

China and India do compete a lot in Bangladesh from what i see, and Hasima tried to play game with both sides (and both sides were frustrated with her). The irony is that 3rd party had it's hands in the mass protests (besides people's grievances) rather than the 2 "fierce competitors".

[@SocialismForAll]

@uuuu-h3m Politsturm has been stretching it to say the least on "Iranian imperialism," which they are citing as a reason to "both-sides" the Zionists' genocide in Palestine.

[@NoxAeterna-wf4iv]

@@SocialismForAll that's very bad. It's diverting attention from the real issue, which is Islamic Iran's theocratic fa ci sm.

[@NoxAeterna-wf4iv]

@@ristekostadinov2820 they do. Hasina was very wary of the US because the US supports and funds islamic extremist group, Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh. Hasina government used to buy weapons from China and gave a lot of infrastructure projects and energy deals to India. Not to mention the trade deficit and India's control over some of the rivers, that also passes through Bangladesh.

[@Pine_Gap_Island]

Joining the Green Party is definitely your best vehicle. But 2 minor points of disagreement: 1) The US Libertarian party, while terrible on economic issues, is at least nominally against war. So I am not advocating for them. I just think being not in favor of endless war makes you better than anyone who is, regardless of other policies. 2) If there is to be a WW3 between US/NATO and some BRICS states, it won't be BRICS who will start it. BRICS is not an alliance like NATO or the "Rules Based Order". China and India have no reason to militarily unite. China and Russia would only unite if one is very severely attacked. So the Thucydides Trap usually results in war when the declining power decides to go to war to protect its imperialist interests, not the rising power unless if its Napoleonic France or 20th century Germany.

[@kylezo]

The psl also has enough ballot access to win the electoral college, not just the greens; neither are going to win, so it's moot, but you were wrong on this point. They're on the ballot in 19 states and official write in status in 23 states. The democrats took them to court and got them kicked off the ballot in 2 swing states over the last couple months. I think? i know Democratic Party of Georgia took them to court and won recently and i think there was one other. Also, in my area (San Francisco/north bay), the psl has been organizing against the genocide with demonstrations and direct actions far more than the greens. In my experience the PSL is currently engaged in more activism other than a presidential run that neither can win (building tenants unions, city council resolutions, mutual aid, etc). Both are a better vote than the GOP or Dems so I'm not too concerned about which people choose. Electoralism is a red herring anyways which is why extra-electoral activity matters more to me personally. I see greens at actions too; in reality both parties are made up of mostly the same people at organized actions in my region so again I see it as pretty moot (you mentioned this in the video but i think it bears repeating). psl explicitly promotes ideas like nationalizing power grids, seizing monopoly companies etc which is not something you see with the greens, though obviously both parties are totally unrealistic in terms of winnability. And as a person I subjectively find Claudia a lot more inspiring than Stein. Not a huge deal to me though. One last thing, PSL is the only explicitly socialist option on my ballot so I'm very excited to vote for socialism. I agree with you about a mass workers party vs a vanguard party. I also think these distinctions are extremely premature in this context. I think PSL is going through a lot of changes right now during this massive push to add members and get more notoriety and I suspect some of their more dubious positions on theory might get a makeover over the next couple years but that's pure speculation. as it stands, a ton of the current membership is brand new so it's pretty hard to pin them down to a particular position on certain things since as far as i can tell right now they are being redefined by the struggle against genocide, ending embargos on cuba, pushing for puerto rican independence/enfranchisement, etc. a lot of the new membership are bringing in new priorities. green is a bigger tent pole party but they're also irrevocably capitalist. also i'll just add that i had a similar experience to you when reaching out to the PSL to join up, took a long time to get connected to people. the impression i got is that once again it seems like they're going through a lot of changes and growth right now so maybe they didn't have the resources to deal with the response they've gotten. I did get a picture with Claudia and got her to sign my copy of Socialist Reconstruction which was pretty awesome, lol.

[@rysenheimer]

Thanks, S4A! Always appreciate these substantial, topical videos

[@ronbunn1349]

Always voted Green in the past, and I’m sympathetic to your argument here - especially knowing many of the type you described who filled up stadiums for Bernie’s (basically Green) platform. I had been leaning PSL but wanted the choice. Unfortunately Ohio has disqualified Stein, barring a last minute legal challenge, so PSL is my only valid non-genocidal choice.

[@SilverXenolupus]

Fantastic Analysis. I have been getting involved somewhat in my local PSL, and I'm still learning a lot. Ive noticed the same thing about PSL, that it seems they have put thr cart before the horse. While we do need a vanguard party, we need a legitimate workers movement first. I think getting involved in any activism you can, studying marxism-leninism, building worker power, and introducing as many people as you can to these subjects is the current priority.

[@dirtbikehussle61]

lol I already voted for psl for my protest vote, should of waited but I vote for greens for all my local stuff. Definitely next time.

[@lvernon9471]

Mannnnnn I’m for ANYTHING left of the Dems. Idc what you call it. I’m for PSL and Green.

[@Workingatm]

There is actually a struggle for the mass party in DSA and the marxist-leninist and marxist factions are actually working for it. Why not join them? They are actually big and they are connecting to the masses.

[@SocialismForAll]

"Why not join [DSA}" I talked about that near the end of the video. They aren't running a candidate in this election though, so it wasn't front-loaded.

[@W4jayk854]

Just checked with CAIR National this morning and the poll for the Muslim vote for Jill Stein is ahead of Harris by 1 point at 42.2%. This is awesome. The Greens might get 5%. I think Nerdeen Kiswanj from WOL Palestine is right, Palestine is freeing us. 🇵🇸 ✅

[@Boriken42]

I voted green but I’m keeping an eye on the Revolutionary Communist Party to see where they go on 2028.

[@comrade4792]

RCP is kinda wacky and cultish, Avakian is straight up silly and thinks he’s the sole authority of communism and has found the “new synthesis”.

[@michaelplz9069]

Perfectly said comrade. Keep up the vids

[@Havoc_Prime]

This is very convincing. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! The RSDLP was called that for a long time before it became the vanguard Bolsheviks, if I recall. They built up their power within a workers' party.

[@AnonymousThinker-zz9dz]

Thank you

[@CitrusThings]

.... Claudia was DQ in PA? noooo I wrote her in in PA

[@rjcgy713]

Commenting for the algorithm and the Simpsons quote. Also agree with all your points. We have much the same problem in Canada. We have what amounts to a two party system, Liberals and Conservatives, with some additional ones like Bloc Quebecois and NDP who have no hope of forming government. Our communist parties, like yours, seem to need a lot of work in terms of attaining support. We do have a green party but they are in shambles. So, like you said, if we have leftists in this country, if they want a movement, they need to build it. Of course we also badly need electoral reform in the meantime, but that's another matter entirely. All the more reason to pursue change outside of this stacked system.

[@HomeofdaBONE]

I voted for Jill Stein in a solid red state

[@samfrancis5016]

Good analysis and principled as always comrade

[@gorgenfol]

All praise the algorithm that many more may see this.

[@comrade4792]

Thanks for laying out all out like that, I think the Green Party is a vehicle and we need to use it how we can.

[@mareks8457]

you mentioned that there have been study groups in the US showing potential. are there any resources where I could learn about their development, successes, failures, and such? I tried searching through your videos but I found nothing that seemed to focus on that topic specifically

[@SocialismForAll]

I've read articles from some of them in livestreams, but I haven't done an overall analysis. Really there would be no point right now because many of them have been fleeting.

[@limonada._x_____9047]

thank you for discussing the U.S. context

[@j.m.g.2041]

"No parliamentary road to socialism"? If we could get a party together, what's to stop it from achieving electoral victories?? Virtually nothing! What do you propose otherwise? A popular insurrection against an elected executive and legislature? Does this occur to you as even a remotely viable strategy for a political party to achieve power? Where on earth does this idea come from that it is impossible for a socialist party to win elections? Why not!?

[@SocialismForAll]

"No parliamentary road to socialism"? Yes. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX6cf5Kaj9uMi9k "If we could get a party together, what's to stop it from achieving electoral victories?? Virtually nothing" Electoral victories, yes. A parliamentary road to socialism, no. Please review Luxemburg's Reform or Revolution? kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4e9mKejfNKsopY and Dutt's Fascism and Social Revolution kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaelhqmAn6qCaJo

[@herscheld1853]

Greens really pissed me off pushing Cornel West glad it backfired horribly 😅

[@SocialismForAll]

I'm not sure what you mean. West initially announced he was running on the awful MPP ticket

[@jasonvillarruel]

Thank you this was very informative!

[@jasondaveries9716]

Hey very thiughtful video, S4A. Thanks for posting. I voted for Claudia de la Cruz largely because at the protests ive been to for palestine, both in my home town and in DC, PSL has been very conspicuous despite their relatively small organization. Also, i saw a video of a cable news interview of Jill stein where she refused to call Putin a "war criminal". I felt like that in itself was a semi disqualifying moment in terms of who i choose to vote for. Granted, i saw this via a Majority Report video which was attempting to discredit Stein in favor (implicitly) of Kamala. Instead, it discredited her (in my eyes) in favor of voting PSL. Any thoughts about that?

[@MadJackChurchill1312]

Compliments for pronouncing Deng correctly ;)

[@classfront]

The original PSL analysis from 2007 is not that much different from Sam Marcy’s he was supportive of the cultural revolution and they later basically had a sort of campist version of the Trotskyist deformed workers state theory. But now they have definitely turned to outright cheering on Xi, and honestly I think it has a lot to do with how they are funded and a good dose of wanna believe of their recent accumulation of a more a more Tankie/Dengist rank and file.

[@huafflhaus]

Solid analysis

[@samdixon6433]

Anyone in/know about FRSO? I'm considering joining it and dual carding with Greens

[@SocialismForAll]

FRSO is Dengist so not actually better than PSL in that sense

[@samdixon6433]

@@SocialismForAll Thank ya for the info and thank you for all your work!

[@AnonymousThinker-zz9dz]

#DemExit #GreenParty

[@ready_to_soar1745]

What about Maoism?

[@SocialismForAll]

What about it?

[@ready_to_soar1745]

@SocialismForAll Do you think that studying Maoism would help the working class as much as Leninism?

[@trevorwilliams2948]

Yes read Mao, that has nothing to do with engaging in class struggle with real people. Theory + action

[@trevorwilliams2948]

Also “studying” mao, look at his theoretic contributions but no, just studying an ideology that was crafted post-Mao death and meant for semi-colonial countries in the global south won’t apply to a country in the imperial core

[@slipknotboy555]

Good stuff as always, S4A! Always on point. ~18:55 The Chinese bourgeoisie (ofc) IS an imperialist bourgeoisie. Inarguably. And yes, already was in 2007 [the bourgeoisie was already in the "CPC" at that point, too]. Advanced monopoly capitalism, etc. Chinese capitalism meets all the criteria Lenin laid out. To give some indication of what the state of China is like - I once saw a video where a BUNCH of cops came to basically bust up a Marxist (Leninist) reading group. Comprised largely of elderly people. Not much room for resistance against the revisionist lines and system there. Edit: Or for simply reading/discussing actual Marxist/ML material, apparently. 24:54 Yup, exactly. 28:06 THIS

[@udeepawijeratne3913]

You know I have to make this observation. I love that you are engaging in the Green Party and supporting then with a critical eye. That really good on you. I just have to point out that you had a video in October casting some critique on the Sri Lankan elections for that candidate not being Marxist. Well they were able form a coalition with left groups and get into power and really shook things up. Something that the USA and Canadian working class can’t even think about right now. They beat the choices that capital stuck in peoples faces. Maybe you should do a video trying to see what lessons that North America can draw from that movement. You know instead of roasting their flawed leader.

[@SocialismForAll]

"I just have to point out that you had a video in October casting some critique on the Sri Lankan elections for that candidate not being Marxist" You misunderstood the criticism. It was not for the party simply not being Marxist but for calling itself Marxist-Leninist and not being Marxist-Leninist, engaging in lines they should know, as MLs, to be ineffective and eroding the meaning of Marxism-Leninism.

[@udeepawijeratne3913]

@@SocialismForAll Fair point. But honestly, that was done mainly by Western media, not the NPP. JVP is just one party in that group, they deserve the criticism for sure but just like you with the Green Party, they need a mass workers' movement.

[@SocialismForAll]

"JVP is just one party in that group, they deserve the criticism for sure" OK then we agree

[@udeepawijeratne3913]

​@@SocialismForAllI never disagreed with you on the principles. I wouldn't be here otherwise. Just that the NPP just accomplished in Sri Lanka what you hope the green party will achieve in the USA. I have my own criticism of the NPP but you gotta meet where people are at and I gotta recognize them for doing that.

[@SocialismForAll]

"I have my own criticism of the NPP but you gotta meet where people are at and I gotta recognize them for doing that" I get that. I still see significant differences. First, most of my approach to this question in the USA is rooted in trying to understand why people who are suffering without healthcare, for example -- literally it is the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy here -- who did support Bernie Sanders in mass numbers also have barely lifted a finger to support a party which has existed since the 1980s and stands for all the same things Sanders does. We even had the Occupy movement here, but still people would not get behind the Greens in anything close to mass numbers. That is still kind of the main thing for me, what is going on there in the US public's mind. About the NPP/JVP situation, it is different from the US Greens firstly in that the "Marxist-Leninist" JVP is in the lead position within the NPP coalition from my understanding, which is not the case with the Greens here at all. Also, my criticism of them as "Marxist-Leninists" has nothing to do with their engaging in mass party/front organizing, which I think can be useful to draw people with lower class consciousness into higher forms of struggle. My main criticism is that when they are asked about socialism, they give really concerning, revisionist answers about what socialism is. "Meeting people where they are" and lying to them about what the goals of the socialist movement are, are different things. In this sense, my criticism of them the JVP is closer to my criticism of the USA's PSL (Party for Socialism and Liberation), a Marcyist party which currently upholds "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" as socialism despite having published sensible and IMO correct papers criticizing it as revisionist in the past (i.e., they know better).

[@chipabrandao3325]

what about american party of labour?

[@SocialismForAll]

Are they running a candidate?

[@Sjnez]

Thanks for this video!!! im early lets goo 😅