Why Outside and Inside Spin are Useful … Sidespin Myth Follow-Up

As a follow-up to his previous video dealing with common sidespin myths and misconceptions, Dr. Dave discusses and demonstrates how sidespin can be useful to create subtle and important changes in cue ball direction off an object ball.
Contents:
0:00 - Intro
0:42 - Theory
2:23 - Full Hit
5:28 - Tangent Line Change
---- 6:04 - gearing outside spin example
---- 8:05 - outside spin full-hit example
---- 8:44 - inside spin example
9:03 - Carom Angle Narrowing
9:32 - Clean Hit
10:49 - Cut Induced Spin
11:33 - Wrap Up
Supporting Resources:
- previous “Common SIDESPIN MYTHS Debunked” video: • SIDESPIN MYTHS Debunked
- effects of sidespin on tangent line and natural angle: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/3...
- Top 100 Pool Myths: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/
“CUE BALL CONTROL … Everything You Need to Know” video: • CUE BALL CONTROL ... E...
- “Cue Ball Control Subtleties - Pool Myth Follow-up” video: • Cue Ball Control Subtl...
- inside spin effects resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/s...
- gearing outside spin resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/s...
- “How to Use Spin-Induced Throw (SIT) to Hold the Cue Ball in 8-ball, from Vol. II of VEEB” video: • How to Use Spin-Induce...
- quick draw resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/d...
- spin transfer resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/t...
- using throw to help hold or kill the CB: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/t...
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Good Luck With Your Game!!!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

*Contents:* 0:00 - Intro 0:42 - Theory 2:23 - Full Hit 5:28 - Tangent Line Change ---- 6:04 - gearing outside spin example ---- 8:05 - outside spin full-hit example ---- 8:44 - inside spin example 9:03 - Carom Angle Narrowing 9:32 - Clean Hit 10:49 - Cut Induced Spin 11:33 - Wrap Up *Supporting Resources:* - previous “Common SIDESPIN MYTHS Debunked” video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3Kad6yJa9mKmrs - effects of sidespin on tangent line and natural angle: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/ - Top 100 Pool Myths: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/ “CUE BALL CONTROL … Everything You Need to Know” video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIG0dnWul6esepY - “Cue Ball Control Subtleties - Pool Myth Follow-up” video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6WpqKauf5iad5Y - inside spin effects resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/inside/ - gearing outside spin resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/outside-gearing/ - “How to Use Spin-Induced Throw (SIT) to Hold the Cue Ball in 8-ball, from Vol. II of VEEB” video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5XaZJaAadulbsU - quick draw resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/quick/ - spin transfer resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/spin-transfer/ - using throw to help hold or kill the CB: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/hold/ *Subscribe to Dr. Dave's KZbin Channel:* kzbin.info

[@puboh]

Even though I'm aware of CIT, I've never thought about CB picking up spin from the OB. That's an awesome tip!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I'm glad you learned something new. That's one great thing about pool. There is always something new to learn.

[@charlesscottkelly]

I will not argue with a man that has put so much effort in to the technical side of cue sports. Best wishes

[@DrDaveBilliards]

If you have a disagreement or question, please post it. I don't mind if people "argue" with me. Everybody (including me) can learn from that.

[@arthurvanbilsen3758]

Clearest videos on ball behavior, period. Great job Dr. Dave. 🎉

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I’m glad you think so. Thanks!

[@pa-mo]

So if a Myth is Un-Debunked, does that mean it's not not not true, or not not not not true. Darn, I have to watch the video now! Great video as always.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The info in the previous video is still true. This video simply provides related and subtle (but important) details.

[@LilChrisPoolPlayer]

Master Class Sir! 💪

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks Chris! I hope you are enjoying your Mosconi Cup Experience, regardless of the outcome.

[@LilChrisPoolPlayer]

@@DrDaveBilliards It’s been a blast out here! Hopefully we can get to see you at the next one! 😉

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@LilChrisPoolPlayer I went to the International Open this year. I plan to try to go to the Mosconi Cup next year. I already travel more than I want to, so I am limiting myself to one pro pool event a year.

[@rodconner9079]

Undebunked!?! No way to argue against it, that's for sure! Many think that it is "too much stuff" to think about ---- Pay attention, practice -- learn, so ya don't have to think so much : ) Thanks Dr Dave Be Safe

[@DrDaveBilliards]

There is a lot to think about in this video, and it is really subtle stuff that doesn't come up often, but it is important to high-level play.

[@rodconner9079]

100% Agreed! @@DrDaveBilliards

[@greeceuranusputin]

Been using it all, all along. This is the kind of stuff that viewers don't see you doing so you're giving away secrets here, Dave.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I guess they ain't "secrets" anymore. :) BTW, I give away lots of "secrets" here: billiards.colostate.edu/secrets-gems/

[@CosplayZine]

Yes and they're also things you do not have to do if you are willing to adjust the ghost ball to line up not directly to the middle of the pocket . So there's options. The information is out there already though he's just putting it out there in a visual way which benefits more people who are willing to learn. Not everyone is willing to change the way they learned to play by eyeballing it so the secret is still relatively safe :)

[@raferb]

These demonstrations are the best! I really liked your H.A.M.B. acronym a few videos ago. With HAMB you kinda figure out what your demonstrating in this video, but obviously much more clinically, and quickly, than having to 'hit a million balls'.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

A little knowledge and understanding can definitely quicken the HAMB learning process.

[@jacobslemmer6168]

Best video on gearing English, cut induced throw, etc!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you. I’m glad you think so.

[@dpbuc32]

Another great Video! Dr.Dave you keep coming up with better videos every week.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks! I'm glad you are liking my latest stuff.

[@Mark2Roll]

Great video as always dr.dave....we really want more video's on cue Ball control in near future.....You are the best.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I already have a large number of videos dealing with CB control. All of them can be found via the links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/

[@Theonlyrealcornpop]

Dr. Dave - I'd LOVE for you to do a series on 7-ball. It's such an often-overlooked game even though, in my opinion, it is by far the most challenging and interesting iteration on the classic X-ball format with such an interesting history given how popular it used to be before 9-ball.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Sorry, but 7-ball is not on my "radar," and my current list of topics that I want to cover is already much too long.

[@chrisvand2678]

You are simply the best to learn from, thanks! Kindley Regards Chris from Denmark.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you, and you're welcome.

[@kenmurphy8048]

Outstanding video Dr D!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks!

[@brianboyer6801]

Another great video where applied science is used for factual explanations. I hope more people find your videos and soak in this information from the view of physics. I greatly appreciate these videos as I can share them with beginner players learning the game as accurate information.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you for helping to spread the word.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you for the supportive comments and for helping to spread the good word.

[@egreber]

I really enjoy your videos and the techno explanations. Bring back Rollie for one of your videos to expand on BU advancement

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Rollie is too busy with his successful Climate Town channel.

[@egreber]

@DrDaveBilliards did not know of his other channel

[@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth]

Excellent correction video. I am a high rated amateur player, and you had me crazy with the last video lol.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

It isn't really a "correction." It is "additional information."

[@davidmegeath1353]

Damnation…your videos are so awesome and helpful to a neophyte pool player like myself…thank you Dr Dave!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks. I'm glad you are finding my stuff useful.

[@Virus989898]

Most bank shots are heavily impacted by CIS on the OB. Maybe you can make a video with examples of bank shots and sidespin to either increase CIS effect or apply gearing outside spin

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Agreed. I already have videos dealing with this topic in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/cut-induced-spin/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spin-transfer/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/spin-transfer/

[@terrythomas4407]

Excellent!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you! I’m glad you liked it.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thanks!

[@Krushard]

Would be nice to include some touchy shots when you're straight and have to create an angle with sidespin out of nowhere to get off of the rail for example.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I have lots of videos covering shots like that here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/straight/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/rail-cut/straight/ Check them out.

[@JiotaroTonThat]

I mostly play straight rail games, but I find this essential to adjust my strokes still

[@sysko1979]

Ever experiment with making the cue ball jump over balls after contacting the object ball? Could be an alternative to those players that struggle with their stroke to get spin.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I have, but I don't see how it is an alternative to using sidespin. Is that what you meant?

[@sysko1979]

@DrDaveBilliards you were showing how using throw to avoid collisions when getting shape. Elevating your cue makes the cue ball jump over obstacles and it takes very little effort. Plus the cue ball still retains side spin. I used this mainly playing one pocket to not disturb clusters of balls. Plus you can make the object ball jump over the edges of balls blocking the pocket. Figured since you're showing how to throw shots with spin, you can show other more advanced position shots is all.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@sysko1979 We cover these types of advanced shots in the Video Encyclopedia of One Pocket (VEOP). I also have many examples of OB jumps here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/jump/object-ball/

[@dazmill697]

Great vid, UK viewer coming from a snooker point of view. Strange as I use these techniques without knowing the science behind it, it just seems natural.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You don't need "science" if you have a solid understanding of how to apply all the concepts.

[@dazmill697]

@@DrDaveBilliards the way you explain and demonstrate is scientific to me, it's a compliment.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@dazmill697 Thanks.

[@pa-mo]

Hey Dr. Dave, have you ever addressed how horizontal and vertical movement of the cue while shooting affects the cueball? I suspect that rubbing across the ball adds more friction and therefore more spin? Players like Reyes don't seem to hit straight into his cue contact spot, his stroke moves left to right while imparting right english and I think O'Sullivan does the opposite on hard reverse spin shots, where I think his cue travels upward perhaps to keep the friction longer and counter the natural tip slide off, to maybe impart more spin.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I think this effect is too insignificant to make any real difference. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/swoop-swipe/

[@pa-mo]

@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks! And now I have a name for it too: Swoop or Swipe Stroke. I love the way you explain things so clearly and with such precise words, it's a real talent. I find it interesting that many have landed on that way of stroking and have stuck with it, but your explanation of what is probably really happening makes sense.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@pa-mo You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@planetscore]

When you talk about adding spin, do you compensate for deflection or having a low deflection shaft?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I definitely compensate for CB deflection for every shot with sidespin, even though I use the lowest CB deflection shaft on the market. I use the System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/

[@Paul_Scharah_ChVP]

Dr. Dave, I've seen you mention the inside spin effect of narrowing the natural cue ball angle in a couple of your videos but for some reason you don't seem to explicitly state that the opposite effect is also true - outside spin widens the natural cue ball angle; At least I would hope it's true since that is a core principle in the game of English Billiards - books on the game clearly state that inside spin narrows the natural angle of the cue ball and outside spin widens it. I just wanted to hear it from you whether that's true or not since I regard you as the most trustworthy source of information! I think maybe you don't mention the widening effect as much as the narrowing effect since a widening effect could also simply be achieved by using more pace on the cue ball, whereas a further narrowing of the natural cue ball angle can only be achieved by use of inside spin. P. S. I've been following your work for several years now but this would be my first comment on a video of yours and I just wanted to say I think you are THE single best pool/snooker/billiards teaching source and nobody else even comes close; Thank you and sorry for this overly long comment, I'd be chuffed if you actually read it!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Thank you for your kind "PS." Chuff away. :) You are correct that outside spin has the opposite effect on the carom angle. As you pointed out, I don't think I have mentioned this before. Like you said, a slight increase in shot speed or a lower tip can accomplish the same thing. I cover those things in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/speed/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/tweener/

[@Paul_Scharah_ChVP]

@@DrDaveBilliards Thank you for your lightning-fast reply! I've now noticed that someone else has already pointed out pretty much the same thing as me and in much less words! Oh, well, thanks again!

[@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth]

Do you have a drill for finding the center of the cueball with max draw? Btw i was watching our guys practice for the masconi cup and they have some cool drills. Did you see that, Dr?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

For finding the center of the CB, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/finding-center-ball/ and the section at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/height/ I did not see the Mosconi practice.

[@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth]

@@DrDaveBilliards nice! So how come pros hot woth a desending blow but you and many other teachers try to educate on using a level stick approach?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth On some shots, especially draw shots with the CB close to a rail, the cue must be elevated to have clearance and to get the tip low enough. However, in general, the cue should be as level (non elevated) as possible for all of the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/elevation/

[@147academy6]

Do you have any videos about how to find the center of the pocket on any shot? Tnx

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I have lots of cut shot aiming advice and videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/how-to-aim/ And I have lots of videos for how to aim when using sidespin here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Or were you referring to knowing what part of the pocket to target? I cover this here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/pocket/size-and-center/

[@born2push]

This demonstrates why pros can control the cue ball so well by using english 👏

[@DrDaveBilliards]

And this video doesn’t even show all the main things they do with sidespin, as documented and demonstrated here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/examples/

[@Arnie.Y]

11:12 would the "right amount" of inside spin to eliminate cut induced spin be the "same amount" of outside spin to eliminate the cut induced throw, but the just on the opposite side?

[@Mhmd_Amin33]

Impressive thinking and imagination, I believe you will be a great player, if you aren't already.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

innocentfoks, cut-induced spin on the CB is only a small amount, so it doesn't take much inside spin to counteract the effect (much smaller than the gearing amount of outside spin that would be required at this cut angle).

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Mhmd_Amin33, thank you for your kind words.

[@janisalo9011]

What if you raise the butt of the cue a bit more than usual, I think that can affect the path of the cueball after the contact with the object ball.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

… most definitely. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/masse/

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Bottom spin and topspin also affect the CB trajectory.

[@colincolenso]

In English billiards there are a few Natural in offs (scratches). e.g. Red on black spot from Cue Ball on edge of centre pocket. 1/2 ball goes in off. When below this angle, inside makes the shot, when above outside makes the shot. Also when above (needing a wider angle) increased speed makes the shot. This is part of the advantage English Billiards can have for positional play for other billiard sports.

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Good point. Outside follow widens the carom angle, as does increased speed or a lower tip.

[@davekat4680]

……Thanks Dr. 🙌🏼

[@DrDaveBilliards]

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

[@thanhthanhlich3233]

At 8:55, can I use a follow shot? Thanks!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

I meant to put the 6 a little higher up table to obviously prevent a possible follow shot, but I think the 6 is still in the way slightly.

[@Arnie.Y]

4:05 how do we explain the conservation of momentum if no ball crosses to other half of the table?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

The resources here explain why in detail: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/hold/ Momentum is conserved. The illustrations, analysis, and conclusions here be helpful (especially if you have a math and physics background): billiards.colostate.edu/technical_proofs/new/TP_A-29.pdf

[@Arnie.Y]

⁠@@DrDaveBilliardsthanks for the technical analysis! I can follow the concept at high level but am kind of buried in the equations, could you point me to the section that proved the conservation of momentum?

[@DrDaveBilliards]

@@Arnie.Y The whole analysis (and all the supporting analyses) is based on momentum conservation. I can’t point you to something as simple as you are asking for, but it is in all the details.

[@sfcarmwrestling1558]

Does this videos proved that side spin changes cue ball direction before touching the rail??

[@DrDaveBilliards]

… not for a given contact point on the object ball. But sidespin does allow you to change the contact point and tangent-line direction slightly.

[@crediblesleek1433]

First to like and comment

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Actually, 2nd, but nice try! :)

[@diritakaifritz1669]

Your cue stick specs please

[@DrDaveBilliards]

billiards.colostate.edu/dr-dave/interview/#Case

[@puboh]

third

[@Nunak91]

"My life is so hard" 😄

[@djamo1969]

First!

[@DrDaveBilliards]

Nice!