Why Owlman Works and The Batman Who Laughs Doesn't

[@bioraidos5454]

The novelty of The Batman Who Laughs was that it was basically kinda picking up on the idea from Arkham Knight, with a Batman with Joker's personality and madness. The idea on paper is pretty damn neat of course, it's a Batman with Joker levels of crazy. The main concern people had back when he was introduced was that he was gonna be milked like hell. And that is EXACTLY what happened. He was a main player in Dark Knights Metal, and instead of just capping it off there they decided to continuously make him the center of attention for a long time. Main antagonist in a Batman run, main antagonist in World's Finest, had his own solo series, and was the main villain in a Justice League arc AND the main villain of yet another DC reset. And in every single of these stories post Dark Knights Metal he always managed to have the absolute biggest plot armor imaginable. He always had a plan for a plan for a plan for a plan, each more outlandish than the last. It stopped being cool and went into lame territory, he just didn't feel like a believable threat at that point because of how ridiculous he was getting. By the time Death Metal rolled around a lot of people were just tired of him hogging the spotlight on every major title and event. This was his main issue, he was miked too hard. He's a cool idea, but in moderation.

[@sky-trevishere9638]

I feel like Arkham Knight it was executed so so so much better. Because it actually tapped into Bruce’s vulnerabilities, and tapped into his fears and insanity, on top of him having an insanely taxing and exhausting night trying to stop scarecrow all culminating to Batman being too overwhelmed and so mentally worn thin that the Joker insanity did break out at some points. While yes we didn’t inherently get a Joker-fied Batman, we did however get a few moments of what a Joker-fied Batman would look like, the level of insanity of joker, but adding to Bruce’s greatest strengths. It also proved how erratic this version would be like, how utterly broken he is psychologically, which could be seen as his visible weakness. The Batman Who Laughs has that insanity… but without any of the drawbacks, any of the psychological fear and dread, anything really. It’s just Joker on steroids and “BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD!!!!” I agree that it was overdone, but I think it would have been fine if used often IF we actually had something more layered instead of a one note local crazy wahoo villain, which Joker already was, but even he has his loses, Batman Who Laughs just plain does not, which makes him an honestly terrible character for an incredibly interesting and fun concept.

[@nyxcat3621]

Exactly. A cool idea, but in practice it’s just like a little kid going “Nuh uh I actually blocked that attack and I have a magic shield that makes me invulnerable to your weapons”

[@Kaigiro]

@@nyxcat3621yeah also the implication from the comic he’s using that the (at that point) mortal-level Bruce Wayne somehow killed Darkseid is so gratuitous

[@thatonewitch]

No wonder the Joker in another universe called him "The Batman Who Talks"

[@bioraidos5454]

@@thatonewitch nah that's not alternate universe it happened in the Dark Knights Metal finale. He teamed up with Joker to take him down

[@nubberton1345]

I never realized how this story ignores how Batman had a plan in case he ever went crazy, that being THE ENTIRE JUSTICE LEAGUE.

[@asifishan1221]

U forgot the robot?

[@AlriikRidesAgain]

​@@asifishan1221 Failsafe is new. Batman having the Justice League as his contingency is classic lore.

[@asifishan1221]

@@AlriikRidesAgain oh what else does he have as his contingency plan?

[@AlriikRidesAgain]

@@asifishan1221 The Bat Family, The Justice League, Superman, The Batman of Zurr-En-Arrh, Jim Gordon, Imaginary Bat-Mite, and Failsafe are all the contingency plans for Batman that Batman has set up. I think.

[@asifishan1221]

@@AlriikRidesAgain oh thx for the information! :D

[@sealake7935]

I love how OwlMan simply says “It doesn’t matter.” with a smile on his face while he dies. He truly and fully believed in his nihilistic principles till the end

[@tenyearsinthejoint1]

Because in the end....it truly "doesnt matter"

[@arlibrarian]

Ah! But according to his view, an alternate version of him *did* abort right? Though really, being stuck on that frozen planet by himself didn't have many prospects for a long life.

[@davemiller638]

@@arlibrarian Ehh, think of it, frozen planet, infinite snowmen and igloos, alone, but still

[@huntezslayer389]

*insert linkin parks in the end refrence here*

[@sealake7935]

@@huntezslayer389 He actually did try very hard, and got very far… But BatMan stomped him haha

[@lorddashdonalddappington2653]

It's totally believable that the Batman Who Laughs could kill the Justice League and Darkseid; they'd just have to take on look at him to die of cringe.

[@TheFlame_Hawk]

Issue they would only die of cringe at the plot, and requiring the existence of the story to make the story happen is a paradox

[@santicollectionprime7128]

Is more funny because in The end it didnt matter he beast The justice league because he couldn't even defeat The joker, that's really The stupidest thing dc has ever done.

[@MageBurger]

@@TheFlame_Hawk but the plot would already exist before they cringe at the plot. All that happens is the timeline changes.

[@lightningstudios3630]

Maybe it takes place in a universe where everyone is just a massive idiot, that would certainly explain some things

[@RevolutionaryLoser]

If he fucking killed me it would be mercy rather than living in the same universe as his goofy ass.

[@vincentmatamoros1757]

One of my favorite small parts of owlman's death scene is that Batman intentionally left the abort button open, and gave owlman a dimensional transporter. If he wanted, owlman could've turned off the bomb and went back home alive, bc batman even values owlman's life. But owlman's own nihilism leads to his death. That's the perfect ending for their fight. This is why batman is one of the best heroes. Not bc he "solo the whole verse with prep time no diff"

[@blutygar]

Also makes Owlman a bit scary in my eyes. His nihilism is so complete to just give up his life when there was an escape to avoid his death in that moment.

[@ascrinkleyfellow]

Kinda makes you feel bad for him.. *_Kinda_*

[@John-mp4qc]

Jesus dude didn’t want to escape

[@friccle_]

I like when batman has no preptime and works with what he as at hand. That makes fights infinitely more interesting

[@sheepketchup9059]

​@@blutygarnormal villains will compromise their conviction to save their own skin, he doesn't, and that's why he's unlike any other normal villains, he actually believe what he said, and he's willing to die for what he believes in.

[@TheWaffleRadio]

The Batman who Laughs could be a really compelling body horror story about fighting against a self that is transforming into your greatest ideological enemy. But instead it was just the line "and then batman goes insane and kills everyone" over and over in visual form.

[@michaeliv284]

And it's such an edgelord story with how he just kills everyone. It's that preptime BS times a billion.

[@jonathanhirn591]

Isn't that just Arkham Knight, except the Joker doesn't win in AK?

[@michaeliv284]

@@jonathanhirn591 you mean "did" win?

[@oss182]

@@jonathanhirn591 In retrospective, they should've just taken the Arkham Knight plot and adapt it as the canon origin for the Batman who laughs. In my opinion, Batman being afraid of literally turning into the Joker was the strongest element of the game's plot and was definitely better than the actual back story for the Batman who laughs.

[@michaeliv284]

@@oss182 maybe he could also dress less than Judge Deaths edgelord little brother

[@Durmomo0]

The best thing about Owlman is he was true to himself at the very end.

[@TheRedMan77]

"It doesn't matter."

[@Eldritch-1]

Owlman makes sense... but TBWL is the dumbest thing ive ever heard of.

[@rageinducer2455]

Exactly, Didn't stutter when he had to face his own ideals

[@Umbra_Ursus]

He just accepted the end: No panic, no freak out, no last ditch to save himself. Owlman stuck to his beliefs just as much as Batman, in the end. Fitting, really.

[@igodreamer7096]

That was a great scene, yes!

[@goji253]

The Batman who laughs is a character that I hate for the same reason I hate Injustice Superman. They do not feel like something that could naturally evolve out of the characters. They are, in fact, the polar opposite of their original selves. Owlman is scary because he still feels like Batman. Same goes for the characters in the Justice Lords story of the animated series. Seeing these heroes come to the wrong conclusions in a way that fits with who they are is a whole different kind of dread because you realise being a hero is a choice they make day after day.

[@farlonmuentes6004]

Yes, injustice superman was actually right at the start of the story but they had to make him insane and out of control to justify him being the bad guy. This is when the writers cannot make a story natural and just goes to break the immersion.

[@Mercy.Beloved]

Him and Injustice Wonder Woman. She would never support him. Red Son is a big example.

[@Redbird-dh7mu]

I feel like Injustice Superman works if the writers change a few things. The first being that Injustice Superman was someone that had less faith in humanity and that he was always more willing to and was more tempted to cross that line, even if he didn’t do it often or at all. Maybe that Superman has always wanted to use his powers to steer the world in the right direction. Maybe he wants to do something like overthrow bad and bloodthirsty governments and the last straw was Lois.

[@goji253]

@@Redbird-dh7mu That's kinda already what they did for it to even happen in the first place. But that's kinda part of the problem. The actual Superman would not have escalated like that. It goes against the core of his character. So Injustice Superman had to be different. And therefore, by definition, had to be changed in noticeable ways from the original. But then is it really still Superman?

[@danielbernhardt1327]

Yeah killing the Joker after what he just did is believable. But Superman deciding the become Super Tyrant and declare himself king of the world does not make sense.

[@baval5]

I really like your summary. Batman realized that even the mugger who killed his family and he hated so much was still human. Owlman realized that even his family who he loved so much was still human. The same conclusion, and yet radically opposite ones.

[@erikbihari3625]

Whenever the more killing part comes regarding batman, always thought bull! Why would someone become murderous after getting revenge?

[@qty1315]

@@erikbihari3625 Remember Injustice? The plot of that is Superman deciding to just kill Joker, and then he gets praised for killing him. Then, he kills another evil villain, and another, and another, and it just keeps escalating. Before long he's not just killing villains, he's pretty much declared himself to be the king of the world, all in the name of doing what he thinks is best for everyone. That's why far later into the story we see the climax, the most brutal thing he ever did that even makes his few supporters turn on him. He sees a group of kids dancing in a warehouse, having a party, celebrating Joker as a martyr who was unjustly slaughtered whose death led to everyone on Earth being oppressed by a tyrant with too much power enforcing his rule upon them. Then, faced with those kids who despise what he's become, he lasers all of them to death. That's basically why Batman refuses to kill no matter what because it would be too easy to go down that dark path. To start by killing just one person, and then just keep killing one more person. In a way it's like how you can be addicted to something like smoking cigarettes and never realise that you have a problem because every cigarette you smoke is just one more cigarette. It starts with "Just one," and then every single time afterwards it is "Just one more."

[@ethribin4188]

Thats the difference! Batman draws strength from even the most hopless seeming conclusions. Owlman however, draws dispair.

[@garygelthaus]

@phazeblaze2274 i think its just that people define themselves by the goal they pursue. So actually reach8ing it can make a person think whats the point now

[@erikbihari3625]

@phazeblaze2274. Usually there's little worse you can do with someone than kill their loved ones. Then it makes sure you're their priority number one! The only ones who'd go beyond it, are crazy people who take even the most minor inconvenience to heart like kevin when he absorbed the ultimatrix's power!

[@bulbasaurguy4742]

Batman: "I didn't call you all together to hel-" Jason: "Heard enough." *Fucking shoots him*

[@Man_Aslume]

*in the actual comic* Jason: *connect brain controller*

[@Ostr0]

In the good ending of the comic Jason: No I'm not letting you break your no killing rule and not let me do the same **Pulls out Dual Pistols**

[@patmianwinston]

Batgirl:”Jason! You killed jokerfied Bruce!” Jason:”he was jokerfied?”

[@bulbasaurguy4742]

@@patmianwinston Batwoman: "ARE YOU TELLING ME YOU JUST FUCKING SHOT HIM FOR NO REASON?" Jason: "THERE WAS A REASON!" Batwoman: "WHAT WAS IT?!" Jason: "......Uhhhhh...Well who else was I supposed to use these "Kill Batman" Bullets on?"

[@toxicdemon1315]

​@@bulbasaurguy4742Jason: "Can't I just hate Bruce without needing a reason for it?"

[@ThePolarisSystem]

“The Batman who laughs is just the Sonic.exe of the Batman mythos.” Is the best way to describe this character I’ve ever seen.

[@orlandofurioso7329]

And even then, Exetior is still better written in soh, at least part 1, screw part 2

[@HenriqueLSilva]

"we've already lost, there's no way we can win against the batman who laughs." "because of how strong he is?" "because the writers want him to win but not put in the effort to make it make sense, so they're making us easy to kill instead. Even as I speak I can feel them making my intelligence drop to room temperature, we no have chance to to make good strat-... Starteg-... We no make plan."

[@ok-jq1jh]

The writers did though. He is Batman with no moral rules, and insane. "Methodical madness" Batman avoids power because he is tempted by it (Mobius chair). All BWL did was figure out Manhattan was the greatest source of connective energy and goes "I should try that" And if you want to say "ok, but what about before that?" Because he knew everything Batman did and MORE. He was given a head start on the true multiverse thanks to BARBADOS which is why he strategically beat Lex. HE LITERALLY HOLDS THE BOOK OF MULTIVERSITY before he becomes Manhattan/TDK. He has the book (and other secrets Lex did not have) because of Barbados. Yes DC's Book of Multiversity you can buy. He held it on panel. It was all explained if you read the comics. It's not even about is Lex or Bats smarter, BWL had a head start on the entire main multiverse. That's why lmao. It's not even complicated.

[@Orange67647]

Let make another god that could give "manual book to win over everything"to batman so he could solo entire univrse

[@ok-jq1jh]

@@Orange67647 Well no it was actually Perpetua and the whole side of the verse the heros didn't know about that let him do it. The Book of Multiversity gave him access to what was already known about the verse prior, just more than what was known by Batman himself.

[@Orange67647]

@@ok-jq1jh so god that give batman "manual to solo entire multiverse"

[@ok-jq1jh]

@@Orange67647 Again, no. If it could do that Lex would've beat Batman Who Laughs.

[@mkcstealth7624]

My biggest issue with the Batman Who Laughs is they never made him a Jokerized Batman, they just made him evil. They kept focusing on the whole fact "he's Batman so he's always one step ahead" but never played into his sheer insanity. Plus he just showed up in everything for no reason

[@burritocat6038]

He always has a ‘master plan’, which is rubbish because if he was like the joker then he would just do things for the fun of it

[@michaeliv284]

I thought his concept was "he has Joker's moral compass" so he wasn't batshit, pun intended, but he's still a painful to read character

[@SilverHairedFreak25]

He's got the look of the Joker and the costume/gadgets of Batman, but he's got nothing from what makes his inspirations so beloved. It's such a waste. And the sad thing is? The Batman did this concept so much better over a _decade_ ago. Check out the episode "The Laughing Bat". Joker tries to trade places with Batman by donning his costume and poisoning him with his Joker serum. It's equally hilarious and terrifying a concept, just like how Joker should be. And either scenario would make a greater origin for The Batman Who Monologues than what we actually got.

[@Ecalsneerg]

"Plus he just showed up in everything for no reason" TBF truly his Jokerest of traits

[@creed8712]

The joke always went that there were two lunatics in the insane asylum, or did you think a man who turned his Furrsona into an excuse to beat up vaguely animal themed people and multiple doctors was sane?

[@demod2080]

The final scene about Owlman realizing he's bulletproof in a Meta sense is actually glorious, and him telling the Bay Baby he's not going to come back because he's a dumb idea is such a metal line.

[@AlphaOmega1237]

Kinda makes you wonder why the writers ever made those characters in the first place...

[@maniacgreen8609]

​@@AlphaOmega1237probably to shit on shitty evil versions of batman

[@TechnicalTactician]

​@@AlphaOmega1237believe me, a lot of dumb stuff happens while brainstorming. It's a miracle that thing got off of the drawing board.

[@135forte]

​@@AlphaOmega1237Because, at their core, the ideas of Batman being evil and Batman having the powers of other DC characters is interesting. And if you have two interesting ideas that don't conflict, why not combine them? Then when people eat it up and demand more, you have to decide to keep going or to tell them that you already did what you wanted to do and stop.

[@AlphaOmega1237]

@135forte But as the comic itself reminds, Baby Bat is a dumb idea. Not an interesting one.

[@SirGrimLockSmithVIII]

15:35 That's actually such a sick way of explaining Batman's remark to Owlman in the animated movie: "We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us, you blinked." Owlman had the opportunity to choose to be better when facing down the revelation that his family was actually corrupt, but he blinked. And that revelation promptly consumed him.

[@Levyafan]

He could've looked at the corruption of his late family and choose to be better than them, not repeat the same mistakes they did. But that would require him to make a choice that he'd be responsible for. Like Batman did. Instead, Owlman chooses to leave in a reality where there is no choice, because nothing matters.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

​@@Levyafan This actually brings to light Owlman's quote of "there are other versions of me that you'd find quite charming..."

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@Levyafanyep. Owl man is the ultimate nihilist.

[@MetalPcAngel]

"It doesn't matter"

[@KaiKrimson56]

I guess Owl Man's favorite Metallica song is Nothing Matters.

[@babysinclairfan]

DC comics made the following stories work: -Green lantern turns evil and becomes the ultimate villain -Superman dies and is replaced by 4 imposters -The grim reaper brings everyone back as a zombie Somehow "evil Batman" is the idea that stumped them.

[@Btobebone]

I miss 90's era mullet superman from around the time of that death of superman storyline

[@cargopilotguy305]

Blackest night was terrible tbh

[@Cloudy_Jones]

@@cargopilotguy305no Blackest Night was dope, Brightest Day ruined it. But Blackest Night has roots in an old Alan Moore comic so it wasn’t just something random, and it was peak Geoff Johns creative power, even though I genuinely love Three Jokers. Not for the story as much as the art, some of the best Batman art ever put to paper.

[@justasentientmclarenp1879]

evil superman stumped them too

[@pedrovallefin8406]

@@justasentientmclarenp1879 Fortunately there never was a big event focused in evil Supermen like th whole Metal trainwreck with the evil Batmen, just alt universe stories that never really affected the main canon. Hopefully it will stay that way but you never know with dc.

[@isabellasantopolo2487]

The fact that Batman didn't kill him, but instead gave him a choice, and Owlman's ultimately choosing not to change, to the point where his own death, the failure of his "glorious" purpose to eliminate all humanity, "doesn't really matter", it's so good, so well written, it makes the character matter, even if he himself believes nothing does.

[@redgeoblaze3752]

I was kind of shocked at first, thinking that Bruce just tied him to a live bomb to his certain death, but seeing that Thomas had the choice made it all perfectly fit together. It's been a while since I saw that movie.

[@erikbihari3625]

@@redgeoblaze3752. I didn't see it with him on the ground. The only aspect of choice owl man had is turning off that bomb, wich he didn't do! Remember his"abyss"speech?

[@MaestroAlvis]

Lol, oh shit. I just made a cheeky joke about how batman killed owlman but it's kinda implied he could have aboted the explosion. Lol.

[@redgeoblaze3752]

@@MaestroAlvis I think that's exactly what Bruce was expecting. or at least hoping he would save himself and start to realize how sacred life is, starting with his own.

[@Nehfarius]

@@erikbihari3625 "We both stared into the abyss. But when it stared back at us...you blinked." -Bruce 'The Batman' Wayne.

[@EVER_PRINCE]

The idea Superman couldn’t detect the change in his biology given he could tell Terry was Bruce’s biological son just by looking at him is insane

[@supermegaultahypercoolguy4327]

a symptom of good ol ''writers dont know about the character they are writing''

[@willbrown6298]

Which is hilarious because it's the same story where Superman was able to tell the Batman they were traveling with was Clayface simply by the heartbeat. He even went on to explain how well he knows his companions so well that even a change like that doesn't escape his notice.

[@joegun4259]

That's what we call "bullshitting"

[@mattearrusso2984]

​@willbrown6298 as a writer I can tell you those words were probably used to subtly explain the potency of Jokers venom in that universe. So potent yet subtle that it went undetected by even superman. Granted, I agree the writing could've been done better.

[@willbrown6298]

@@mattearrusso2984 if that were the case, then there was no narrative reason for him to kill the Bat Family.

[@ethandugan3864]

I’ve always said this about the Batman who laughs origin, Jason Todd would ALWAYS have his safety off in the bat cave around Bruce, even in a perfect world. Let alone a Bruce who just KILLED THE JOKER, Jason would not be caught lacking like that.

[@Bee-gc2do]

100%! Also Nightwing knows Batman best and RR is supposed to be the best detective of the bunch-I refuse to believe one of them wouldn't notice something off and go through with one of batmans billion contingency plans.

[@Bibyte]

Batman would probably stop himself before anything happens.

[@pustota7254]

Your comment got liked 69 times.

[@ethandugan3864]

@@pustota7254 Thanks for keeping track of the milestones brotherman

[@silverblade357]

​​@@BibyteBatman: "I'm mere hours from becoming a version of the Joker with all my skills and knowledge? Okay. *NO!"* **

[@LegendaryPredalien12]

If he did kill the Bat Family in the Bat Cave he'd never have made it out alive past Alfred.

[@italianfrogpuncher7024]

I feel like Owlman’s death in the movie was a nod at the fact that not only are his convictions stronger than his own sense of self preservation, but him realizing that as long as Batman “Prime” exists, he will too.

[@98loud]

Batman Prime doesn't exist though, Prime Earth is an obvious wasteland. Plus, that wasn't an established thing until well after the movie came out

[@Lulo_Serrucho]

​@@98loudsupongo que se refiere al Batman que todos conocemos, como si mientras ese Batman exista, el también lo hará dentro de el, supongo

[@Eva-uw6uo]

Basically as long as there's a Batman, there's an Owlman- which means of the infinite Owlmans to follow, some will inevitably have the same idea he had. Which means Owlman has infinite opportunities to try again. And he can try again for eternity, because even if every Owlman thus far has failed he theoretically only needs to succeed *once.* So literally nothing matters- not even his defeat, at least on a multiversal scale. Plus the more popular a specific incarnation of a character, the more likely that incarnation is to return. Which means *this* Owlman is probably coming back sooner or later.

[@father_malecus]

Not quite. Owlman made the decision not to disarm the bomb. Which means (according to the logic of the movie) that by doing so he created an alternate universe where he did disarm the bomb. If he had chosen to do the reverse, he would have created another universe where he didn't. Either choice he could've made lead to the same outcome. It didn't matter.

[@Phoenix-qu5ss]

@@Eva-uw6uo It's quite likely there was an Owlman that destroyed earth prime. After all, in an infinite multiverse where every action or decision possible has been made I don't see how there is a scenario where earth prime is never destroyed. In fact, I don't think there is a single earth prime either, since that would mean there would have been an infinite number of Batmans and Owlmans at the earth prime universe at the exact same time that the Batman and Owlman we follow are at earth prime. So, this may lead us to two different possibilities. One, where Owlman destroying earth prime doesn't actually result in the destruction of the rest of the multiverse. Or two, where Owlman destroys the multiverse but due to there being infinities smaller than other infinities, the infinite multiverse that Owlman destroys is part of a larger infinite multiverse that branches off into a set of infinite multiverses where Owlman is able to successfully destroy the multiverse and another set of infinite multiverses where Owlman fails to destroy the multiverse. Essentially, Owlman is trying to achieve an impossible goal of doing something that actually matters because whatever he does, there would be an infinite variation of him that does something either ever so slightly or radically different.

[@awesomeblader45]

From what I have seen, the Batman who laughs is essentially the definition of a character who literally never loses and becomes a literal god like being just because.

[@wjzav1971]

You can say that that is what Batman and Joker have become in the last twenty years. Because Batman has gotten to basically Chuck Norris status due to generations of fans and writers insisting that "he is totally awesome you guys" and Joker had to become much more threatening and dangerous to the point where he can even stand up to superhumans because how embarassing would it be if the totally-awesome Batman was struggling with a clown that every superhero could take out easily, unless we make the clown equally badass.

[@fatherpom2043]

that makes sense though. batman is someone who fails to stop the joker time and time agine because he has a strict moral code but the joker is basically just a regular dude and he keeps winning because in his mind as long as he does what he wanted to do and succeeds nothing else matters. He's a man without consequence, to him there are none. If you mesh the skill and intelligence of batman with the mind of the joker that's pretty much what would happen, but the shitty part being this ones motivation is literally just ''lets destroy shit'' so hes a much more boring version of the joker.

[@bloodyidit4506]

@@wjzav1971 Batman's the new Wolverine. He's super popular so every story has to be made about him and he has to be "awesome". I just move on to other stuff while popularity is ruining something and sort through it later.

[@technounionrepresentative4274]

dr doom but even more lame and with a worse design

[@benjackman4814]

​@@technounionrepresentative4274how is Dr. Doom lame? He's literally the best villain in Marvel

[@jamesrosengrant8675]

Batman who laughs is the ultimate example of the people who think batman can solo the universe. Owlman is a batman who lost his care for the world around him

[@wjzav1971]

These are the same people who also insist that Punisher can solo the entire Marvel Universe.

[@kaiduffy2974]

​@@wjzav1971maybe because... punisher did lol

[@wjzav1971]

@@kaiduffy2974 Because someone wrote a comic about it. If I write a comic that gets published by DC where the Condiment King solos the entire DC universe, would you also take that seriously? As this video shows, not everything that gets put into officially published comics is good or makes sense. Punisher was struggling with a really buff non-superpowered Russian dude. You're telling me its realitic he can take down the entire Marvel universe?

[@DoomSlayer-gj8qb]

@@wjzav1971tbf it was a Russia dude

[@jonburnett90]

Owlman almost wipes out the multi-verse. If that's not solo-ing the universe I don't know what is....

[@ManicPandaz]

The Bat family is specifically trained to deal with armed assailants while unarmed. They are trained in Gunfu to doge bullets basically. On top of that Batman would have a notable disadvantage when using guns. He doesn’t train with guns even if he is a top notch fighter.

[@waterpillar1977]

To be fair Batman does know how to use a gun and has trained himself to have perfect aim just because he doesn't use it doesn't automatically mean he doesn't know to use a gun

[@Pillowcars]

@@waterpillar1977but I feel if you combine the fact that the bat family are experts in dodging bullets and Batman’s lack of actual experience using them should be a considerable factor

[@corybryan2105]

Batman uses guns, he just doesn’t use lethal ammo. More specifically, he doesn’t use them directly against people.

[@Finn_the_Cat]

I feel like that's one thing people forget. Just because he doesn't use guns in crime fighting doesn't mean he can't, hunt game with them. Batman strikes me as someone who would try to get very good at hunting in case of being stranded somewhere without food. It would be a necessary skill.​@@corybryan2105

[@HollowEarthling]

One of my favorite lines from Owlman actually comes from the Heavy Metal event. He's working with all the evil Batman, but then suddenly betrays them. And the reason for this is: if all of them die, even if he dies, or the whole multiverse dies, he will still come back. Because he's a good idea, and the other evil Batmen aren't.

[@onethousandmousetraps9704]

I remember that. Cool af moment.

[@peika8324]

His the true OG, the one that works and works well. The rest is just cheap copy over glorified. Owlman’s win felt earn while the rest kinda just the write hand thenm with a silver-plater

[@nkemnoraulmanfredini7286]

Owlman isn't the 1st evil Batman for no reason

[@Eldritch-1]

He's just batman as nihilist...

[@nkemnoraulmanfredini7286]

Batman is already a nihilist😐@@Eldritch-1

[@placeholderdoe]

Batman saying,”I believe in the absolute sacredness of human life, it may be my only belief” is so powerful, I’m glad I know his true reason for no killing

[@zachfreedom644]

its not his true reason. and batman doesnt have a no killing rule. he has rule against intentionally killing someone. batman also doesn't stop the death penalty either. Its stated multiple times that batman wants justice for gotham not revenge on gotham. the "no killing rule" is to allow fan favorite villains to return when more likely we can see one of us killing someone like joker. and joker may not be the smartest or strongest, but neither is batman but batman wins all the time over joker. batman and joker are stated and shown to be equal many times. and your critism of the bat family death, 1 they are blind to their father figure 2 they are physically and mentally exhausted as was the plan 3 batman is talking in future tense and the batfamily trust in him is near absolute. batman also talks alot with his back turned to family. nothing suspicious there. 4 they are human batman actually knows them well enough to know how to actually shoot them. most of their bullet dodging ability relies on predicting where there opponent is shooting and that thugs usually dont know how to properly use guns.

[@tutumazibuko2510]

@@zachfreedom644 finally someone gets it. Nothing about Batman's values are cemented, everything about him is for the sake of convenience

[@jiggycalzone8585]

Semantics but it doesnt sound right to me Batman would specify human life when half the justice league and the entire lanterns org are non-human. Imagine how awkward it would be saying that with Clark Kent standing next to him

[@_Tzer]

he doesnt want people to experience what he had

[@Notben10-s3p]

My brain is so rotted because i started laughing when owl man said "man".

[@_grievous_the_epok_gamur_7140]

I know this mf had his legs up in the air while giggling

[@Agente13840]

Your brain is: damn : rotted

[@Destined2BeKing]

Same, that man meme has ruined my sense of humor😭

[@tangerinepaint3643]

Are you stupid

[@Man_Aslume]

We learned the disturbing reality Owlman is a Arkham redditor now

[@mothman2761]

Right as you said that "you would play the owlman monologue because you could do it justice," i got the burger king ad

[@Redfrootloop]

The true monolog

[@julianvenegas642]

😂😂

[@sr.nutella9121]

Dawg, I got a Temu ad. I didn't know Owlman would try to sell Batman some cheap plastic electronics that would set the Bat cave on fire; or a water bottle with enough lead to poison a small elephant; or something like that

[@Speedx67]

That final scene with Owlman really doubles down on his views. When given the option to Abort he looks for a moment before smiling a bit. With the "It doesn't matter." as he explodes is just cool-

[@Nyghtking]

No one can say he didn't stick to his guns to the vary end.

[@Levyafan]

He even had the teleporter make the way there with him. If he wanted to, he could've escaped to live and try another day. But in the end, he was only human. And to Owlman, human lifes don't matter. Nothing matters.

[@borosbutredtape]

I think the best interpretation of this scene I've heard is that his resignation comes from the fact that he never made it to earth prime. He could have simply used the teleporter to go back and finish what he started, to do as he always desired and make the only REAL choice, but in that moment, when he saw he had the CHOICE to abort the destruction, he knew he didn't reach earth prime, the earth without choice

[@Nyghtking]

@@borosbutredtape Oh yeah, one interpretation I saw was that that scene was him realizing his goal was impossible. Thats because he had to make the choice in the first place to go to earth prime, because he did that he created a new reality, and as such he never really went to the true earth prime he went to a copy. He also realized that every choice spawns a world, but this can only happen with things that are possible, meaning if his goal was possible it would have already happened because of another instance of himself, since it didn't that means it can't.

[@umaydoruk4526]

i really appreciate how owlman doesn't start kicking and screaming when he loses, he never averts from his view of existence and just goes along, saying "it doesn't matter". there is so much context beneath that one line and it hits all the right notes.

[@dreamerwav698]

a nihilistic character freaking out when they die because turns out they realize they actually do care about their lives is great and all, very poignant, but holy shit owlman going "it doesnt matter." and even smirking a bit as he died??? another level. in it to the end, that bitch. because it doesnt just fit with his character, it proves that throughout it all he 100% believed nothing actually mattered. true nihilism. amazing.

[@silverblade357]

Yup. His dimensional counterpart managed to beat him and prevented his plot. To Owlman, this doesn't mean anything. This doesn't prove Batman was right or that he was wrong. This just means Batman got to exert his will upon the multiverse. Owlman living or dying doesn't matter because nothing is special and nothing is meant to be.

[@Infernal_Sniper]

@@silverblade357there's also another side to it. You can take his monologue about other worlds where he made the opposite choice very literal in that he so firmly believes in his philosophy that he believes he himself didn't need to push the button because somewhere out there, in a parallel earth he already did, which is kinda funny since that exact reasoning probably killed every version of himself in the situation.

[@Fruad_jo]

@@Infernal_Sniperactually not every version as by his own rules there has to be an opposite reaction in which owl man realizes he doesn’t wanna die

[@kommandantgalileo]

he just went: Oh well, I get to die anyway.

[@redwiltshire1816]

@@Fruad_joSuper owl the hero who cares too much, actually that kinda describes Batman dude literally overthinks everything to the point where he has back up plans on his back up plans

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

*Stygian Robin:* “But, Batman Who Laughs. Now that they know of our plan-“ *BWL:* “Ah, Robin. But that was the plan! Now that they know our plans, they will plan around our plans. And so we shall, in turn, plan around the plans that they are planning around our plans!" *Stygian Robin:* “Your brilliance knows no bounds!” BWL buys his own hype. He destroyed his own universe...in the Dark Multiverse where everyone is designed to lose. That's like having God Mode on when it's set to Easy Difficulty.

[@localidiotnumber792]

Absolutely impeccable Hellsing Ultimate Abridged reference, my friend

[@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45]

But does BWL have Zeppelins? Didn't think so.

[@YourLovelyGuy9442]

So true it was cringe to read

[@somberflight]

This is some Tzeentch ass bullshit

[@bignerd3783]

Batman who laughs: Somehow kills gods by being just that silly Owlman: "whelp i lose. GGs"

[@Man_Aslume]

True he really went GG

[@gurun8071]

@@Man_Aslume Well, more so that batman is one of the few of the justice league willing to do things like nuking a planet to win. Such as the whole fight with darkseid. He wins by stalemating, couldnt beat darkseid, but definitely wouldve made the loss so significant just by the fact he would take out as much as he could before dying, darkseid just bowed out.

[@t.estable3856]

Less "GG" and more, "I push the button in another universe anyways.".

[@blaziard683]

gg

[@danielbob2628]

I am truly desperate for a joke character named "Joker Who Bats." I don't know what he would be like, but I would love him.

[@Artipup]

The Batman (from 2004) did an episode where Joker became Batman

[@lordskeletor4558]

That is basically red hood from brave and the bold

[@cybertramon0012]

It could be a Joker who’s Batman dies, and he’s so obsessed he creates his own Batman to keep fighting against. Only he’s terrible as Batman.

[@ssj5gogeta1310]

Honestly, that name mostly conjures up the image of a Joker, who's way into baseball.

[@ammagon4519]

I also thought of an idea called "Batman Who Shazams!" The idea is that while Batman is fighting some criminals inside the orphanage Billy Batson was in, Billy tries to transform into Shazam, but the lightning hits Batman instead turning him into "Batman Who Shazams!

[@ethribin4188]

Batman who laughs is a power fantasy fanfix by a batman fan. Owlman is a batman who looked into the abyss, and blinked.

[@Cross-kd5xb]

Owlman is what writers who actually try can come up with when they twist Batman's core narrative elements into something new, yet not entirey different The Batman Who Laughs is the only thing what modern Batman comic writers can do: edgy fanservice that simply don't understand who Batman really is

[@decentralizedintelligencea4778]

This implies that Batman goes harder than Owlman in the sense of nihilism, wouldn’t you think? Unless by blinking they mean he couldn’t tell the difference? So many ways to interpret the quote.

[@Cross-kd5xb]

@@decentralizedintelligencea4778 other interpretation could be that by "you blinked" Batman is saying that Owlman decides to ignore certain things. At least in one of Owlman origins, his nihilism begins when he discovers his parents weren't really good people. "You blinked" means that Owlman didn't see the whole picture, and his philisophy is based on cherrypicking, while Batman saw the abyss and saw more things the other wouldn't acknowledge. Before this edgelord times with a Batman more aimed to emo 12 years old kids, Batman used to see good in people, so maybe by that Batman is saying that our decisions matter, and our life does have an impact in the people we have near us. Owlman bliked and didn't see what he didn't want to see, developing a tunnel vision about only what he wanted. Batman didn't, and he saw the good and the bad, the things that are lost and the ones that can be recovered. The things that is worth fighting for. Not to say nihilism is inheritely bad, of course, but implying that Owlman is a nihilist because the abyss he blinked at, the abyss he didn't see, were the little things in life that do matter, but his personal ideology doesn't allow him to see. Still, that line is one I regularly think about. No idea what Batman actually wants to say. So many possibilities, and could mean many things at the same time, but after years I still think about it

[@Will_022]

I don’t see how you can be a Batman fan and like the Batman who laughs

[@SymonOnua]

Everyone seems to be misunderstanding what the looking into the abyss and blinking statement means. What it means is that he looked into all the darkness that there was in the world and instead of being strong enough to fight against it he faltered and was afraid and in the end failed.

[@SoftyKnight]

My brother in Christ, dropping “battle against the true hero” right after Batman’s coldest line is one of the craziest things I’ve seen in a hot minute. Good stuff man, you’ve got a sub.

[@Lightspeedloser_]

Redhood wears a ballistic mask just to get shot in the head through it

[@kirbmon64-mj5pl]

Why is he even their

[@joshuarobinson6011]

@@kirbmon64-mj5plmost of the time Jason normally ends up giving up guns after a while so he ends up sorting out his drama with the batfamily and can actually work with them plus it’s Batman who had the biggest issue with Jason before he stopped killing. Damien just didn’t like him in general but they eventually get over it and Barbra, Tim and dick have all been pretty chill with him unless he steps over certain lines like attacking them and stuff

[@chefcorinth]

​@@joshuarobinson6011he doesn't give up guns lmao

[@Overlord_of_Cacti]

You know what else every member of the bat family wears? FUCKING BULLLET RESISTANT MATERIALS.

[@lobsterdeliveryspecial]

i love that they chose the one guy with the proper face protection to get headshotted

[@Vinny0151]

I feel like something people forget about Joker's whole "One Bad Day" thing is that he is lying. He outright doesn't know his own backstory. And The Killing Joke shows that Joker is doing all he can to prove the One Bad Day idea by trying to break Jim Gordon, but it doesn't work

[@Nyghtking]

I like the Joker's One Bad Day speech, because we've all had something like that, where we just have the urge to say "Fuck it all" due to stress, due to anger, due to whatever, we just don't want to keep doing whatever it is we're doing. The difference is while we all have had that urge to say "fuck it" we usually don't go off the deep end, and at worst we just try to change something, for the Joker it was an excuse to give in to ever dark urge he's ever felt. There's at least one interpretation of him that was always evil before becoming Joker, and intentionally sabotaged the mission he was doing so things would go wrong and Batman would show up, just because he thought it would either be fun or interesting, and the chemicals he fell in as a result just freed him from any obligations he had.

[@Americanbadashh]

There's a fan comic for Joker meeting Spider-Man, and the punch line is him realizing if Spider-Man is still a hero after all that maybe it's not just one bad day after all

[@thelordofthelostbraincells]

There's a joker meets Spiderman comic dub where joker is all like "HEHEHE IM GOING TO DESTROY AND RUIN YOUR LIFE" and spiderman is like "ok, take a ticket and wait in line like everyone and everything else". Joker actually LEGITIMATELY FELLS BAD FOR SPIDERMAN 😂😂😂😂

[@Man_Aslume]

Because professionals have standards​@@thelordofthelostbraincells

[@NinjapowerMS]

Actually love the one bad day origin. Hell Arkham Origins probably has the best interpretation of it. It's pretty perfect and it even explains Harleys obsession with joker

[@kabobawsome]

Something I love about Owlman is how he is a mirror to Batman in *philosophy*. It's written clearly by someone who deeply understands Batman, and rewrote what would happen if Batman became a nihilist instead of what is basically a structuralist. Owlman works he becomes a critique of philosophy, and functions as a rejection of what some people believe to be Batman's philosophy. The Joker sort of works because he's the fundamental opposite of Batman. He doesn't have the same philosophical base for his beliefs, because he barely has any real beliefs. This makes him a useful villain, but hardly a great character. He's a VERY good writing tool, a personification of chaos and death, almost a force of nature. A great thing for the very human Batman, who values life and justice above all else, to struggle against. But if you try to mix the two concepts, turn the Batman into the Joker, that's always going to be a very hard sell, because fundamentally a Batman and Joker story are written like a Man v Nature story. It's like trying to combine the characters of "Jeff the Random Guy" and "Hurricane Katrina". Like, I'm sure a VERY VERY good writer could make it work but it would not be easy and is ultimately a bad idea.

[@DiegoHernandez-sb3fc]

i'm really interested in what a story combining jeff the random guy and hurricane katrina would be like now

[@alexanderticonuwu7591]

​@@DiegoHernandez-sb3fc Maybe a ghost story about a guy who died in a hurricane and ended up possessing it?

[@TerrelSam]

​@@alexanderticonuwu7591I mean that's basically batman who laughs anyway

[@matheusboso7844]

​@@TerrelSamA normal guy possessing a hurricane would be the opposite of the batman who laughs.

[@conspiracypanda1200]

​@@matheusboso7844Sounds like something you'd find in a manga more than a comic book. "I Died Alone In A Natural Disaster But Then I Was Reborn As A Hurricane Spirit With The Power To Destroy Entire Cities"

[@grantabernathy]

The man that mildly giggles

[@DemRise1999]

The man who kinda smirks

[@thiefthearcher9907]

I remember them announcing a Harley Quinn who Laughs, and I rolled my eyes. What’s next? The Joker who Laughs Harder?

[@GenesisAkaG]

"The Joker That Is Actually a Moderately Successful Metropolitan Comedian Who Makes People Laugh!" where mr jonkler just burps up the bad haha gas and goes on to live his life like a mid-2000s sitcom.

[@fistinyourface7053]

Better. Joker Who is Serious followed by Bane Who Is Fat.

[@singletona082]

The Joker that Doesn't laugh. Aka White Knight Joker. Goes a bit hard into social commentary and jerks off at 'batman is useless.' However the concept is sound and it GENUINELY has some great moments. I recommend giving it a go.

[@wilburdemitel8468]

the batman who cries the batman who frowns the batman who shids the batman who fards the batman who cooms the ba

[@pengindoramu]

Joker that Exhales Funny

[@kaleb.soneal8011]

Batman is also the example of how a simple man can reject the evils of the world. He has everything a corrupted man could use. He's rich. He holds emense sway and power in the city and yet he values the people. He uses his money as a true tool for a better Gotham. He's an example that cancer can be contained. Where owlman he wanted to fight it but ultimately succumbed to those cancers

[@RecliningWhale]

i mean, no not really. Gotham is a crime-ridden shithole that would likely be better off if he just let one of the other members of the Justice League step in and clean up. Batman is wealthy beyond belief AND is a superhero, but his city is always full of the kind of shit that would make The Punisher run out of ammo.

[@conspiracypanda1200]

@@RecliningWhale Most of Batman's villains are literally just smart regular guys with a lot of resources though, with the rest also being miserable, unhelpable and/or insane. Sure you could get someone like Superman to beat the shit out of everyone once in a while, but that simply doesn't fix Gotham's particular rampant brand of crime. I mean, Superman's biggest recurring villain is _also_ just a smart regular guy with a lot of resources, so that should probably prove that there's a lot more nuance to crime in general than who can fight the hardest or throw someone in jail/escape the fastest. Gotham in particular is all about the mental battle: fear, insanity, knowledge, secrets, mind control, social connections. Not a lot of DC heroes are built to handle that kind of thing long term without breaking down mentally and emotionally like Batman is, which you can see from how fast powerful heroes like Martian Manhunter and Superman (who both have known and easily exploitable weaknesses anyway) want to leave every time they drop by. Almost everyone writes Gotham off as a lost cause but Batman and it's the same with Bludhaven and Nightwing. Their training and investigative styles are perfectly suited to those corrupt places, so throwing in a "more powerful" hero isn't nessicarily going to net a better result. And besides, the Gotham you see is likely toned down due to Batman/Bruce Wayne's monetary and heroic interference. If you had anyone try to take it on without his level of resources for orphanages, job providers, health care, etc... Well, that would be like fighting an infinite mob spawner since so many more people would be turned to crime.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

I feel like that's one thing the Comics _never_ tackle enough... Batman's Compassion and Sympathy.

[@Joaquin546]

But behind the scenes he manipulates the city to generate crime to give himself a sense of purpose. For if Gotham ever became peaceful he'd be out of a job and his sense of purpose.

[@ZaChemas]

almost never, the best ones are wholesome comics and comics that are good and actually give the true batman to the ppl@@ellugerdelacruz2555

[@realsanmer]

"We need to make a Batman and Joker fusion" Virgins: The Batman Who Laughs Chads: The Green Goblin

[@jrloulanza6534]

Yes.

[@adamextras]

The absolute GOAT Norman Osborn

[@slywhemwick8071]

God speed batty man

[@kikijammer]

You know, Im something of a batman joker fusion myself

[@WutDahDogDoin]

​@kikijammer well i did find women annoying

[@Gavriel01]

I like to think that Owlman's last line is because he's realized that if his conjecture about the multiverse is true, then there's another version of himself that wins that fight and will destroy Earth Prime. So either the plan will succeed and everything dies at that moment, or his conjecture was flawed to begin with and thus he couldn't really make a choice anyway.

[@irrevenant3]

Thinking about it, the Joker presumably didn’t leave the venom in his body as a trap for Batman. It was intended to get whoever killed him, and Batman's distinguishing characteristic is that he refuses to kill. Presumably Joker just wanted to ensure that he'd have a successor to cause problems for Batman.

[@Beanpolr]

I think that was his backup plan. I think the joker's ultimate goal was always to make Batman go to far, to kill. He wanted Batman to finally be convinced that it was better for him to be killed, for the good of others. And, as his final "joke", he would turn Batman into him, fully send him off the deep end. If he failed, the next joker would have the chance to do the same.

[@obergfamily9049]

Congratulations! Unintentionally and in 3 sentences you explored more about the character than the writers did.

[@irrevenant3]

​@@obergfamily9049Unintentionally?

[@kamidarko]

The reason I consider this Owlman to be the antithesis of Batman is because Owlman does not have an indominable willpower. Owlman doesn't have strong emotions tying him to his intent. In the end he simply shrugs and reminds himself "It doesn't matter" where as Batman is incapable of wavering in his conviction. The opposite of such a strong ideology like Batman has isn't going to be something like the strong ideology of cringe the batman who laughs has, its going to be an absolute lack of emotional attachment to meaning. He feels nothing whereas Batman feels too much. Genuinely incompatible existences.

[@Barakon]

The only bad thing about it is that I don’t think the owl as an animal doesn’t fit apathy as a concept, or really any animal. “The steel mask” would be a more apt aesthetic.

[@foxymetroid]

​@@BarakonI think they just wanted to stick to the "flying nocturnal animal" theme. Plus, in some cultures, owls are viewed as inherently sinister. Probably because of the whole "they're awake at night, when it's all dark and scary" thing.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

In short he'll always lose to Batman. And he doesn't even care.

[@tim_soup7099]

@@Barakon It's solely because owls are the only consistent nocturnal predator of bats.

[@Barakon]

@@tim_soup7099 oh

[@PingTPunk-rq9us]

Batman viewing all human life as sacred is so much better of a justification for his no kill policy than the sociopathic "once you pop, you can't stop" excuse.

[@idkwhatswhat2382]

i like to think it was a combination of both. he refuse to kill as a way to give them a chance as the huge majority of villains in gotham are either insane, or broken and it prevents himself to execute his view of justice to others making him above human which he is not. just an opinion you can disagree

[@CursedShinobiClown]

THANK YOU

[@roseoliveira6709]

Fr, the guy mind is strong enough to resist possession and be immune to mind control but blood thirst is too much to handle?

[@r.r.4563]

Thing is, even the latter is still good reasoning if they flesh it out and explain why he thinks that’ll happen even if we, the audience, know he has the mental fortitude with little to no trouble. It’s purposefully meant to be ignorant to his abilities because it’s more or less an irrational fear of killing due to his awareness of his mental issues and his lack of a solution to overcome them and face them. It’s one of Batman’s weaknesses but writers often don’t fully flesh it out. Bruce is terrified of himself and the idea of what he could become if he kills more than it being confirmed that he would acc become that insane. Him acc becoming that insane in Batman who laughs kinda destroys this and fucks it. And as for Batman who laughs, he doesn’t even get the bare bones basic “one leads to many”, his story is just edge city.

[@myb701]

ah hell no, let us have one socipathic or psycopathic hero. But I like the first reply's interpretation.

[@subscriber101able]

Why Owlman Works and The Batman Who Laughs Doesn't? Well, It Doesn't Matter.

[@gendygoblin8391]

I personally like how the Crisis on Two Earth’s film doesn’t delve into Owlman’s backstory. We know who Owlman is at that moment and that’s all we need to know. They reflect on each other’s past in a similar way and only give an impression. They don’t talk about events, but more about the emotions they both faced and how they dealt with them. They both looked into the abyss and know what that’s like but like Batman said, “you blinked.” I freaking love their interaction in that scene.

[@silverblade357]

That's because Owlman's exact origins didn't matter. We got more than enough from him to see his nihilistic perspective. What happened to him is irrelevant to the plot. What he planned to do was way more important.

[@VeryPeeved]

@@silverblade357 It's not who is he underneath, but what he does that defines him.

[@Knighted_Owl]

It's referencing that Nietzsche quote right? I think batman was telling owlman that he became what he despised without realizing it.

[@Web_2567]

The Batman who laughs is the very definition of plot armor, not just him, his entire evil Batman and robin army, he is literally the Goku vs argument.

[@agenericguy1014]

The only difference is,at least(most of)Goku's arguments are actually valid.TBWL on the other hand,is literal plot armour

[@Web_2567]

@@agenericguy1014 yeah. at least Goku spends time to train.

[@agenericguy1014]

@@Web_2567 That and because he's actually(at worst)universally strong.People would talk about how "Goku would lose against Naruto/Luffy/Gojo/Makima" but then get mad at the Goku defenders for saying they're wrong even though in actuality,Goku would in fact,win against them. TBWL on the other hand,is just stupidly strong for no reason.That and cuz the people in his universe are stupid for some bizarre reason

[@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45]

Speaking of Goku, if I had a nickel for every time there was an "evil" Goku in official Dragon Ball content, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice, right?

[@starpokeheart664]

​@@ninyaninjabrifsanovichthes45 and both of them were better than TBWL (especially Goku black)

[@readingking1421]

Owlman taunting the Dark Knights about how they’re all bad ideas is definitely my favorite comic moment I’ve never actually read.

[@aleksejsruy]

Because I've heard it before... and it wasn't funny the first time.

[@misterbadguy7325]

The funny thing is, the guy who wrote that scene was James Tynion IV, who also wrote TBWL's origin. It's like he was doing it just to apologize for what he wrought upon the world.

[@LadyDem]

feel like the batman who laughs would've been better as a batman raised by the joker, instead of a batman infected by a joker. Because a child raised by joker 100% would kill the joker, simply because it was entertaining. A tortured mind like batmans with jokers lack of morals and direction? now that would actually be interesting not..well, what we got.

[@misterbadguy7325]

@@LadyDem My preferred take is that he'd really work as something similar to that old episode of The Batman: the Joker kills Batman, but now the game is over, and he has no purpose. So what does he do? He becomes Batman!

[@thatHARVguy]

@@misterbadguy7325 He goes all Kraven's Last Hunt? Joker's last Joke?

[@Mezha07]

Owlman to every Dark metal version of batman "All of you will never be me, will never be as bad as me, you're all just a cheap fcking knock off"

[@tarongg9057]

dark metal is like, one of the most popular stories in dc, much more popular than any instance of owlman

[@ToasterLad_]

@@tarongg9057 popularity ≠ quality

[@Kaprosuchus-99]

The merciless and red death seen cool enough, tbwl is hyper cringe tho

[@----S.]

6:15 The worst part is not even the fact that they didnt noticed but the fact that REDHOOD of all people wasnt wearing a bulletproof vest, like, redhood from all people is the one that get in gunfights the most and are you telling me that him from all people does not wear any protection?

[@ZaChemas]

oh no, he does, he always does, the writers just... forgot?

[@key1131]

Batman was using extra thicc bullets 🤓🤓🤓🤓

[@redwiltshire1816]

@@key1131you mean ap rounds?

[@Coid]

Probably more like that one Looney Tunes episode where Buggs Bunny is tormenting Daffy Duck because he's got the pencil and is at the artist's desk. They just went and erased it off of him between panels. ...In its own way, I suppose harkening to Looney Tunes is appropriate enough.

[@idkwhattoputherelol-c1d]

Nu uh um batman actually used antimaterial bullets just that you know sh¡t and didn't read properly 🤓

[@TheWolfman112]

Let's be real, if Bruce ever tried to actually kill the Bat Family, Jason would be the first one to spot it and put a stop to it. Because he's dealt with Joker the most other than Bruce and he also works with guns and can probably spot someone reaching for one just a little bit quicker than Barbara, Dick, or Tim could.

[@truespartan1000]

Not necessarily. Dick knows Bruce best, so would be the first to spot if he was off. Tim is supposed to be the second best detective in the family, so he could have deduced something was off as well.

[@vitorhq1]

Anyone in the bat family could've spot that goofy plan

[@dfredankey]

I think since bruce is such a solid figure/ hero they really would let their guard down and not take what he’s saying so serious and could actually be slain

[@Dariogrossi0]

@@vitorhq1 Ace the bat hound would have spotted it 😂😂

[@vitorhq1]

@@dfredankey just for the fact they think Bruce shouldn't be taken seriously it's already a problem. He told them what was happening to his mind, he told them they couldn't let them stop him... What they thought? That the Batman was joking?

[@SeriousJB]

I feel like a realistic scenario of Bruce actually killing an enemy would be him breaking down and being so disappointed in himself that he wouldn't ever be Batman again or anything like that. if human life is so sacred to him and he ends up taking one, I think it would just break him, not "satisfy" him and make him want more

[@tinycoke3718]

Anyone who thinks its harder to kill than to do non-lethal takedowns doesnt get it. It is so easy to be careless and accidentally kill someone in a fight, it is so much infinitely harder to make sure everyone is safe even if incapacitated. He would be distraught and give it up because then hes just a thug

[@SeriousJB]

@@tinycoke3718 I felt like up to your last sentence you were against what I said. Then I didn't understand anything anymore

[@funguy398]

Like in the first episode of Batman Beyond? Old Bruce in a costume while defending women from a thug, experienced a heart attack and was forced to use a gun on a criminal, he didn't shoot but was about to. So he stopped his heroic shenanigans.

[@Cross-kd5xb]

​​@@SeriousJByou pretty much described comic industry at their current moment. Back in the day, they would have actually understood the character, because what you just said is literally the plot from the very first episode of Batman Beyond. DCAU is pretty much the moat accurate interpretation of the characters we ever had out of the comics. Unfortunately, and again you just nailed it, today we just have edgy fanservice of an extremely flanderized version of Batman, who is a demigod whose plot armor and thirst for edgyness to please 15 years old emo kids is too high to not be cringe. Thus, The batman who laugs was born

[@SeriousJB]

@@Cross-kd5xb the curse of modern media. We have advanced technologically so much but seem to have stopped putting our hearts into new projects. I think most movies or series have become what you described

[@jayanthsambaraju6562]

Completely agree with the take on modern joker. the shock value shit like cutting his face off or skinning other people or randomly SAing someone is so much dumber than the “is there a lore reason why man put jonkler is in the aslume? Is he stupid” joke that originated from r/batmanarkham, and those are shitposts that are supposed to be dumb.

[@ananomooss]

I like how Owlman at the last part knew how good he was at being the evil Batman that he basically breaks the fourth wall because of it.

[@bobmcguffin5706]

"I HAVE POTENTIAL AS A CHARACTER CONCEPT WHEN DONE WELL!" - the most positive thought he has ever had

[@ShadowPa1adin]

The thing about "The Batman who Laughs" is that it is like DC looked at one the most fascinating aspect of the Arkham Knight games' storyline and said to themselves "Let's do that, but execute it much, much worse."

[@gigagod3384]

I don’t know, the AK storyline of Batman turning onto the Joker because of a blood transfusion already makes no sense because Joker’s blood isn’t magic. But it’s also cheapened by the fact it’s just an excuse to have the Joker as the main villain for the fourth time in a row which was one of big criticisms of previous games of overusing the Joker that Rocksteady chose to double down on.

[@reshi_ire]

@@gigagod3384 To be fair, that particular Joker has a ton of TITAN flowing through his body - which we already know causes one entire form to turn into a dangerous monster. The idea that a blood transfusion from someone with TITAN causes you to take on their personality traits is a stretch, but no more than a stretch than TITAN already was. I haven't played Origins yet but I'd also say it's more so Origins fault for using Joker rather than Arkham Knight using him; that game needed to deal with the character in some way and I think the way Arkham Knight does it is actually pretty fun and interesting, making the themes of fear really come out in the game. There wasn't really a reason for Origins to use the Joker in anything but a side quest, it really should have been its own thing.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

⁠@@gigagod3384Joker’s blood is a factor but not nearly as much of a problem as Scarecrow’s toxin which almost seemed to activate the blood in Batman by unleashing his greatest fear. I also think Arkham Knight is the perfect melding of the BWL and Owlman concepts. AK is the quintessential example of what Batman would be had the Joker broken him, driven entirely by vengeance, nearly devoid of moral considerations, but without the false edge and sadism that defined the Joker. Not to mention that carrying the Arkham iconography fits thematically back to the story and motivations of Amadeus Arkham and how it parallels with the exact moral conflict Batman is always grappling with.

[@amirgarcia547]

@@reshi_ireI def agree there, one of my biggest issues with Arkham Origins narrative-wise is that Joker just entirely hijacks the story when he gets introduced, and so the whole plotline with Black Mask and the assassins just gets dropped outside of some side-quests. In addition, they make the duality between Batman and Joker and how one can’t live without the other so unsubtle that it might as well be branded in neon lights.

[@amirgarcia547]

@@gigagod3384Tbf while Joker does haunt and torment Batman throughout the game, the main villain is still clearly both Scarecrow and Arkham Knight. Joker is nothing more than an outside spectator who lives in Bruce’s mind until the ending, and doesn’t actually influence the events of the story. Unlike in Arkham Origins, like the comment below me explained.

[@bosskaiju4834]

That little speech that Owlman gave about the Dark Multiverse being dumb ideas, which is why they're gonna die for good, while he'll come back eventualy hit so hard because he's telling them that they're going to die the only way a fictionnal character can be truly killed, by being forgotten. That's one of the most devastating use of the 4th wall I've ever seen.

[@Mayan_88694]

Except even if a character is forgotten, doesn’t mean they are dead, the dark multiverse is one of the best things that happened in DC, you probably never read the event.

[@Mayan_88694]

The dark multiverse is one of the best things that came out of DC, you probably didn’t even read dark knights metal nor dark knights death metal, and just because a character is forgotten, doesn’t mean they are dead.

[@Mayan_88694]

Cute, because the ideas won’t die, and will never die. Majority of comic readers loved dark knights metal and dark knights death metal, cope harder

[@Mayan_88694]

Cope harder, the ideas won’t die, people loved dark knights metal,there are tons of forgotten characters in fiction who are still alive, just because they are forgotten doesn’t mean they are dead. A character can still be alive while being forgotten.

[@prometheus9732]

@@Mayan_88694dude, he’s talking about a scene that impacted him. Not an argument about how a fictional character can die.

[@mrmegalovania]

Love that line "There are alternatives of me you'd find quite charming"

[@ultatack6020]

I find it quite ironic how Owlman, who despises human existence and wishes to exterminate it, is a perpetual constant. In a sense he realizes he won't get the nothing he so desperately craves as long as there is existance. Because if Batman prime exists, so too will Owlman.

[@Levyafan]

Because Batman, ultimately, is a man who made a choice. Or many choices. And as Owlman said: for every universe where that choice was made, there are those where it wasn't. And the Batman who didn't make those choices... is Owlman.

[@Meloncolliepoet]

He's Batman's counter balance in the universe.

[@----S.]

I think both, Dr Manhattan fans and batman fans agree that the part where the batman who laughts does a lobotomy on the batmanhattan and becomes an "evil dr manhattan" is a big insult to what both characters mean and represent

[@ClockworkGearhead]

Probably the point. Writers in this era have a massive chip on the shoulder, and frankly, a lot of it is because of corporate influence strangling creativity. Both are crapping on the other and their cycle just keeps making stories more superficial. Batmanhattan was just another bullet in the chamber.

[@Scuttlerofwhimsey]

Dr Manhattan fans haven't eaten good since about 3 of his scenes in the Snyder movie and what little he had in Darwyn Cooke's minutemen

[@concept5631]

​​@@ClockworkGearhead Haven't corporations always shit on writers?

[@hyperion3145]

​@concept5631 Yes, probably more so back then than now. What some companies did to writers and artists in the Golden Age was insane. Like, life destroying insane.

[@concept5631]

@@hyperion3145 It lead to Alan Moore becoming the man he is today. For the worst.

[@buster3041]

Owlman's explanation of the multiverse is perfect. It explains how cool and stupid multiverses can be.

[@megapeebs2631]

Batman who Laughs is the definition of a Mary Sue he's like Short Round from Temple of Doom but less cool

[@challengeaccepted5613]

the fact that jason was present and still didn't pick up on bruce's shenanigans is proof of extreme plot armor brainrot

[@mapleflag6518]

And same with Tim

[@Mr_Edward_Nigma]

Batgirl: JASON, JUST BECAUSE BATMAN IS JOKERFIED DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD KILL HIM! Jason: . . . he was jokerfied?

[@AHun-t]

Honestly I feel like the very second Batman even implied he was turning into the joker Jason would’ve shot him This is the same guy who got beaten with a crowbar by the joker and left to die in a warehouse set to explode with his mother inside, no matter how much he cares about Bruce, if he knew that he was becoming the man who killed him I doubt he wouldn’t try killing him immediately

[@joshuarobinson6011]

@@AHun-tnot only that, he also dug himself out of his own grave with his bare hands before being found by the league of assassins, put into a Lazarus pit and then essentially trained to be an assassin by talia. Also the fact that he was in that warehouse with his mother because he was looking for her and she betrayed him to the joker. Jason’s whole life was basically one trauma after the next. Especially considering in the red hood comics we see Jason’s happiest memory is literally him being sick and Bruce staying home to care for him rather than going out and being Batman and he didn’t even want the memory back when he was offered it back

[@user-pi3hd2bt3f]

​@@joshuarobinson6011man don't try to make sense in what they do with Jason anymore. DC doesn't give a shit about him.

[@MisterSlimee]

What i love about owlman is that he is not the drawn out stereotypical robot/ai that thinks man is a cancer for pragmatic reasons. He's still a man and recognizes that, he kind of hates himself for being apart of the cancer. It's self hatred. Nihilism in a character always a product of self hatred, apathy or indifference and this makes his motivation so much better than when a AI does it

[@Dr.Oofers]

While on the topic of those kinds of stories. A story about an “AI that wants to protect humanity” is ironically way more interesting than the drawn out “AI wants to wipe out humanity.” Or you could have a Blade Wolf scenario in which they get forced into a set of apathetic ideals from how they were created and “trained”. But eventually give up on them once they’re no longer forced to “uphold” those ideals.

[@christopherbravo1813]

this actually reminds me of my own idea for an AI antagonist, one who was *purposely designed* to be as human as possible (with several exceptions, such as him being significantly smarter than the average human being) who ends up developing a passionate hatred of humanity, one that eventually extends to include *himself* due to him believing that he is no different than his creators.

[@MarcosAlexandre-no3qx]

​@@christopherbravo1813 so something similar to am?

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@MarcosAlexandre-no3qx as a matter of fact, yes. However my guy wasn't created to wage war on other people-though my current idea is for a group of people to have attempted to repurpose him as a cyberweapon.

[@MarcosAlexandre-no3qx]

@@christopherbravo1813 would be interesting making him maybe reject the war path, but search for other ways of his own destruction. One thing that i think is saturated with ai is that every ai that hates humans and other things usually devolve to war, but there are other ways to write a self destructive way for it.

[@Ikairuz]

Honestly I liked the Batman Who Laughs when he was contained within Death Metal. He sort of represented the idea of Batman winning with prep time, thats why he came off as very shallow since he was the epitome of the joke. Thats in my mind at least (this is purely head cannon) why his feats are all done basically done off screen, because if we actually saw how he did it we'd say bullshit, like how when we see someone say "Batman beats everyone" we say bullshit. He was meant to be one note, and in the end when he finally does have to fight Batman and the Joker in the cave, he loses in the end. Hell the Joker even called him a lousy joke (can't remember what he said but it was something like that). BECAUSE HE WAS, and I loved that.... but then they kept doing joke, and then the joke became serious... and then they ruined it.

[@octopassi2528]

This. The guy overstayed his welcome unlike owlman

[@Nyghtking]

I feel like one of the reasons he sucks is he was so overplayed. Like it would have been fine if he was in maybe 1-3 stories, but his shtick gets old fast, and you can really see the plot armor in action with him. What probably would have been fine in a small amount kept getting shoveled out and then made a focal point, so what was interesting about him just became annoying. Lets not forget there's essentially a meme now when any evil batman is introduced where people say "...and he was recruited by the batman who laughs." because most of the time thats exactly what happened.

[@SandwitchZebra]

I agree with this. I genuinely think he and the other Knights were mockeries of the idea that Batman can do anything, with TBWL being the most extreme. Batman can override a Green Lantern ring? Batman can become Doomsday? Batman can wear the helmet of Ares? Batman can fuse with Barry Allen? Batman can turn himself (or, uh, herself) into an underwater assassin? Batman can turn into a robot? It’s ridiculous. But then writers just… took it seriously.

[@DrGandW]

He Poe's Law'd himself

[@CM-hx5dp]

orginally, the dark multiverse was just supposed to be about representing the fears of people in the regular multiverse. The Batman who Laughs was supposed to just be the manifestation of Batman's fear of "The joker successfully making batman break his moral code." Batman doesn't kill partly because he believes that if he starts he won't ever stop. and that's what the BMWL it supposed to be... a batman who lost his morals. He would have been fine as a one off villain, pretty great even... but then they just kept bringing that guy back. and we all got sick of how pointlessly edgy he was.

[@SSRJ22]

owlman is a genuinely well made character because he's not meant to be anti batman, he's meant to be his own person. batman who laughs would be awful if batman didn't exist. owlman can stand alone well without batman.

[@creeperkinght1144]

Yeah he's more than the dichomatic half of Bruce Wayne, but a character constructed on the very ironic will that humanity molds reality and it's morals to such a degree that it makes every action meaningless to do good because there was no good in the first place. He sticks to that philosophy through and through until the arrival of his death, funnily by his own hands, and by the character who holds positivism and humanism in their own will instead.

[@RvnWolf]

Another thing that doesnt make sense about the Batman who laughs, is that he really shouldnt have been created through chemicals. Batman famously has resisted and created antidotes to Joker toxins

[@rdogg114]

They actually tried to justify it with Joker had super duper Joker toxins stored in him that would release the day he dies prime joker came up with the stupid plan of committing suicide infront of batman so he could get exposed to it and fight back the batman who laughs as another batman who laughs.

[@justseffstuff3308]

I don't know much about DC lore, but couldn't that have been a different universe, different Batman? Given that we're talking about a Batman who the writers claim can solo the Justice League offscreen lmao, yeah, doesn't makes sense for him to be beaten by something like that.

[@ok-jq1jh]

It's because you didn't read the comics. Batman Who Laughs comes from the Dark Multiverse. Not even a universe in the main positive multiverse. In the Dark Multiverse it's typically the villains who win and the heros either died or... became the villains too. His visor, among other things, keeps him from fading away in the main verse (until he powers up) It's a rigged universe BWL comes from where all the possibility lined up for him. The most evil and capable version of Batman, not necessarily the "best" evil version of main Batman. But the "most capable prep" version of Batman for sure.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

​@@ok-jq1jhliterally the definition of an asspull, it's almost like hearing it from a child in a playground.

[@galaxycamerata]

No, im pretty sure they read the comics. It's just that what they learned made The Batman Who Laughs worse because he was literally DESIGNED to be this fucking absurdly powerful for no reason other than to shake things up for sales. There were genuinely interesting things to be done, but none were implemented or considered. He exists to move whatever shockfactor plot they want to shove into the story along.

[@Spyno41]

I feel like some writers often forget about Batman, is that he is a man of pure moral code. Batman isn't cool because he can solo the Justice League. Hes cool because no matter how hard his conviction is tested, he will ultimately do the right thing. In a city where billionares and CEOs flaunt their wealth without the care for the people, Bruce uses his money to try to make Gotham a better place. Whether that means putting money on infrastructure like building an orphanage for orphans, to fighting criminals as Batman. Its just insulting that some writers make Batman turn him evil so easily. Theres no way Batman would not do something about his declining mental health, without leaving some failsafe to protect those close to him.

[@Tsbrumati]

Orphanage for orphans haha

[@Trulman03]

👏

[@CuppaLLX]

This, and as op says his feats are badly done. Like there was an entire arc for killing the justice league, the babalon protocol. He isn't 1 v 6. It's isolate and exploit. He's doing an agent 47. And what's more if Bruce was already gone the bar family would have noticed early. The first laugh? Blue and clark would know so things up. Can a batman laugh? Yes. But not that easily

[@Caragoner]

It's crazy that all of Batman's plans to deal with the justice league are non lethal EXCEPT the one he made for himself, which just never occurred.

[@korawitbuttramee618]

The same reason why I don't like turning Superman evil. Superman isn't cool because he is invincible and can solo anyone and anything if he wants to. He's cool because despite his immense power, all Superman wants to be is a good man with a happy, simple life surrounded by people he loves.

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

What makes Owlman great and what makes BMWHL terrible is that Owlman explores the alternate paths that Bruce could've taken and explores individual circumstances in his life that could've explored different paths. Owlman dating Super Woman is if Batman dated Diana but their relationship was as healthy as diving headfirst into a pool of acid. BMWHL is just "Evil Batman" That's it.

[@giantWario]

Super Woman is not an alternate dimension Diana though, she's an alternate dimension Mary Marvel (Shazam sister's, she has the same powers as him). This also means that Owlman is dating a teenager because, just like her brother, Mary Marvel is not an adult yet in her true form.

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

@@giantWario She has the Wonder Woman function of being the female representative between two dudes (Batman & Superman/Owlman & Ultraman). Even though she's more like Mary Marvel but visually and narratively, she's the Wonder Woman of the team.

[@giantWario]

@@gimmeyourrights8292 I mean she's not more like Mary Marvel, she simply is Mary Marvel. I do agree that she fits the same role as Wonder Woman on her team though.

[@wjzav1971]

Now that you mention it, Batman and Wonder Woman being a thing would actually be interesting.

[@VidelxSpopovich]

@@wjzav1971 You say would as if it didn’t already happen. It was a thing in the silver age. Huntress was originally their daughter if I recall correctly.

[@ThePuff18]

I do love the idea that the ONE time Jason trusts Bruce, he gets shot through the chin.

[@mrbonesaw90]

The saddest part of Batman Who Laugh's design and concept is that its more or less a rip off of Judge Death from the "Judge Dredd" comics. The design invokes more from that character then either Batman or the Joker. Its also hysterical that the writers think Bruce losing nearly 70 pounds in muscle mass and deciding that a BDSM mask is cra-zay and intimidating. If you wanted to do Jokerized Batman have him still be Batman but with the merger of Joker's insanity. Have him still abide by the no kill rule but what he does to "criminals" is worse then death.

[@cybertramon0012]

The Batman who Laughs look might work if it was really Joker dressing up like Batman. He’s always been a skinny fellow, so he’d make sense looking that way.

[@nellewoodruff6337]

​@cybertramon0012 I just saw the episode of The Batman where that happens lol

[@triggerfairy4070]

​@@nellewoodruff6337that ep works as a better batman who laugh concept

[@landofnoone7048]

Yeah, I see how twisted "no kill rule" can become. Like, imagine him preparing to kill a guy and then stoping because "Oopsie! No killing" and then he fucking cuts off dude's limbs, stitches his eyes and mouth and leaving him hanging somewhere lonely. And then TBWL goes away saying something like "I won't kill you, but the starvation will" and then dissapears

[@arkhamasylum8972]

Imo, he likely isn't. They just have a similar aesthetic. He might be inspired by Judge Death, but a full-on ripoff is stretching it imo. If it is copying, i think it's because Jock, who worked on 2000 AD, also worked on Dark Nights Metal. So, imo it's not a case of ripping off, but more of a case of them being cut from the same cloth. If you still think it's a copy, they both look like the mouth of sauron from the Lord of the rings book, so you can say they are both copies. He most likely got slimmed down from the Joker Venom, giving him a more lanky build, but still, he's not exactly skinny either. Just more of an in-between of batman and Joker builds.

[@hollowroxas4742]

One thing I love is that Batman’s origin has a bat lifting him up and bringing a peaceful message to comfort him while he was grieving meanwhile Owlman’s sign was violent when the owl slashed his face with its talon and left a scar on his face that would always remind him of what he lost that night and how the same people he lost were just as bad if not worse than the one who took them from him. The signs that inspired their hero alter egos ultimately resemble how they deal with crime where Batman tries to lift people up and comfort them and give them the help they so desperately need meanwhile Owlman only brings violence and death because he believes that every man is unredeemable and therefore even though he doesn’t even know you, he hates you and will slash at you without hesitation.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

“Everybody in the Dark Multiverse are glorified creepypasta characters.” That had me cry laughing 😂😂😂

[@ctdaniels7049]

Me: But... isn't that the point? Havin' some weirdos from horror timelines? Isn't that the purpose? ; - ;

[@comixproviderftw_02]

@@ctdaniels7049 It’s kind of a “style over substance” thing

[@Warm_Winter_Nights]

honestly you cannot tell me that the minute bruce said he could feel the joker venom taking over that jason wouldn't have immediately shot him in the fucking head

[@deadlineuniverse3189]

Bruce Wayne is Anti-Batman. Every time he’s in the frame Batman is nowhere to be seen, so he works like a charm.

[@IiImonix3]

Perchance to dream goes brrr

[@blaziard683]

GO GO GADGET ANTI-BATMAN

[@WitnessesSay]

Finally, someone who realizes that the batman who laughs is just the batman who lacks meaning or value beyond murder porn.

[@NickyYey]

Me when i see the most brutal and disturbing death scene in a comic: AMBATUKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM-

[@markjack9772]

its almost that was the point of dc mettle

[@noone12748]

It's also a Joker without any humor or charm, literally took the WORST of both worlds when they made TBWL

[@reaper8264]

@@noone12748 my guy it's just grim dark stuff. I can't imagine how you would think of 40k by that logic.

[@AxlPatrol]

I think his design is cool but as a character he sucks.

[@dylancarter9290]

One of the things I liked least about TBWL is that it was literally a chemical that turned him into "evil batman." The best stories of Batman challenge his ideals, and sometimes even make him doubt them, like the Killing Joke. Some of the other Batmen from Metal were better written, since they were the result of Batman losing people close to him due to his rules until he finally gave up on them. TBWL seems more like "Batman beats everybody with prep time, so what if he was evil," rather than actually challenging or developing his character

[@VoiceFGC]

True. I didn't end up reading any of them, but I do know the general plot of all of them, and the others for the most part seem a lot more interesting in a lot of ways. The Merciless had a cool one (though it was short) and the Murder Machine actually is a super cool idea. I wish they could've at least shown a bit more that happened in TBWL's story with how he killed the Justice League (likely separately and stealthily), but they more led us to believe that he actually went to the Watchtower and killed everyone Doom-style right then and there... which is just ridiculous.

[@stephensmith7327]

That's why I love Justice Lord Batman, because he's just the Batman who took it just too far. Everything about him is exactly the same, he's just compromised with Facist Athoritarianism. Which leads to him and regular Batman going for amazing verbal gut shots. "I did everything so that no little kid looses their parents in some back alley!!!!" "You think mom and dad would have liked living in this city?"

[@spindash64]

​​@@stephensmith7327 That goes for all the justice lords to some extent: they're still trying to do the right thing... It's just really hard to mesh that with a free world. So instead of being an angst fest, it's a genuinely compelling warning of what happens when you get lost in the sauce

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

Heck, dawn breaker is a more interesting and well executed twist on Batman. What if a young vengeful Bruce Wayne gained all the power he could ever imagine and bent it to his own whims?

[@erikbihari3625]

@@stephensmith7327. Authoritarian and faschist aren't mutually exclusive, you know. One can exist without the other!

[@junelaananke7138]

The best thing to come out of The Batman who Laughs saga is people calling Absolute Batman "The Batman who Lifts."

[@TheBermudaMan]

Honestly, the fact Superman didn't make an immediate connection between the already-Jokerized children and Batman's EXTREMELY suspicious cackle is simply another case of an iconoclastic writer with Batman on the brain having it in for Superman.

[@user-pi3hd2bt3f]

"Iconoclastic?"

[@TheBermudaMan]

@@user-pi3hd2bt3f Iconoclast, i.e. "a person who attacks or criticizes cherished beliefs or institutions." This particular writer has it in for Superman and everything he supposedly stands for, so he portrayed him as a dolt.

[@user-pi3hd2bt3f]

@@TheBermudaMan bro did you specifically look for that word? I never even knew it existed. You're awesome!

[@TheBermudaMan]

@@user-pi3hd2bt3f I try.

[@shadowsansvii8715]

“We cut to nightwing, batgirl, Red Robin, and red hood.” Dang it, now I’m hungry.

[@davemustang8173]

Honestly the biggest crime is that Batman (as he has been established since the New 52) would IMMEDIATELY quarantine himself the instant he laughed at kids being violent

[@user-gf9vb7wj4v]

Even Owlman knew that he was HIM.

[@Kira22558]

the greatest Nihilistic man of his world.

[@capesword111]

The answer you gave for why Batman doesn't kill people satisfies my intelligence far more than a lot of answers I'd been fed about it. I remember actually seeing that answer given during Dennis O'Neil's run.

[@Captaiesqueleto]

Batman does kill

[@floorpanel8749]

@@Captaiesqueletobatman after breaking the spine of a low level criminal in 4 places just to leave them on the roof of a building nobody checks because they took someone’s purse 3 weeks ago.

[@Psyko_Monk3y]

19:51 I love the fan theory that by making the decision to go to earth prime, he makes an alternate earth prime, meaning his plan truly didn't matter, since he's destroying a planet made by choice, meaning a split path from the original. It's a theory that you never can change earth prime, you cannot affect it in any way because the choice to do so acts as a barrier to entry.

[@ace-smith]

this is one thing about alternate timelines that always gets muddy when the timelines start messing with each other. what about the timeline where that didn't happen 🤔🤔🤔

[@roar1ng]

​@@ace-smiththe universe where it didn't happen wouldn't matter because of that universe where it did, meaning that ALL the other universes die, including that one where the bomb wasn't detonated. While there is a second possibility where it wasn't detonated, and that earth prime may act as the anchor for X amoun of time at some point the bomb WILL go off, life will end, because of the timeline where it did detonate. At least thats how I'm seeing it, I'm probably mistaken

[@ace-smith]

@@roar1ng did you read the parent comment because i wasnt talking about this specifically

[@celestialdancer6293]

No, it's internally consistent, atleast from the characters' perspective. It's confusing if you try to think about it in a meta way, but if we take the movie as a single straight line of events then Owlman did travel to THE earth prime, not an alternate. Any choice you make on it would make an alternate, sure, but then this alternate wouldn't be the prime. Remember, every other Earth in the multiverse is, ultimately via a chain of different events, a descendant of earth prime anyways.

[@DIRTkat_ofc]

It didn't matter huh

[@IrvinCascade]

5:29 my favorite part about this argument is: If it were just BatGirl, Red Robin, Nightwing, or just about anyone else in the "Bat Family" that was here with Batman while he was acting suspicious and preparing to attack them, then I could see them hesitating, not thinking Batman could/would go that far, getting caught off-guard, etc... But not Red Hood. I refuse to believe he'd be caught off-guard by this. I hardly expect NIGHTWING to be caught off-guard, but Red Hood definitely wouldn't. Might be a little biased, though.

[@Yuyuppers]

It's absolutely true

[@Ryu1ify]

Jason would have started blasting as soon as Batman said he didn't call them there to help

[@tozarkt9805]

Well credit where credit is due, It does show in the panel Jason aiming his gun to shoot while everyone else was unprepared, but unfortunately Batman was quicker.

[@lunaitor-uq9hz]

I've hardly heard anything about Red Hood in general, but from what i've heard, he seems like the type of guy who wouldn't hesitate to shoot batman in the fucking head if the situation required it

[@Ryu1ify]

@lunaitor-uq9hz He was damn near about to shoot *himself* in the head if Batman didn't finish off Joker in _Under the Red Hood_. The very fact that Batman actually did go and kill Joker here would make him at least as wary as it'd make him ecstatic, if not more

[@erikkesler1739]

I can except a Batman successfully killing the justice league but only if 1)It slow deliberate and calculated not once should batman be in a direct scuffle with the possible exception of green arrow. 2)He doesn't kill them all at once but picks them off 1 by 1 when they are separated. 3) Makes sure that they don't think it was batman because the minute they recognize it is the whole plan falls apart. 4)He needs help wether paid or threatened doesn't matter but he uses a mix of villains and contigencies to get it done. 5) Related to above he narrowly "escapes" his own murder attempt (or even fakes his death) Notice how exactly 0 of these fit TBWL Edit: I do actually like the version of Batman from under the Red Hood and can go on whole rant as to why but I would agree that this owlman would not work as well as foil to that batman.

[@Hellacious-Blue-Liquid]

Owlman being so calm in his speech is what sells him as such an effective anti-batman. He has that stern demeanor and clear, calculating mentality that gives him such a creepy calm

[@lemagicbaguette1917]

"Ominous" is how I would describe him.

[@Hellacious-Blue-Liquid]

@@lemagicbaguette1917 Aaaye that's the word! He's just so fucking ominious. He's never NOT ominious

[@teacupkoala175]

His final words "it doesn't matter" are brilliant character writing. When he sees the yes and no buttons, he gives up. As far as he's concerned, if he presses the yes button, he creates a new world where he pressed no, and vice versa. To him, if he takes action then one Owlman lives and another dies. Under that logic, there's no point in pressing either button, and that's the definition of not mattering

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

Plus, his chance to take the "only action that matters," erasing all the worlds, is gone. Maybe he was consistently fighting to keep himself alive, despite it all, before, but now that he's lost the ability to wipe out all humanity and make the "only real choice," he can't see a point in continuing on anymore.

[@lylaallen2123]

ALSO, the fact that every action has an opposite ending! Even if he dies, to his mind, there's a universe where he succeeds in obliterating Earth Prime, therefore he still wins even if it didnt work out in this timeline. Layers!

[@jaguarenduda]

Also, by letting himself get blown up he supposedly created an universe where he did save himself, so in a way, despite hating humanity and himself, his last decision resulted in the salvation of another

[@BasedlordYama]

​​@@lylaallen2123Then there never was a "only real choice" because succeed or fail, there's a timeline where the opposite happened. Im pretty sure the whole point was that since batman's timeline was the timeline from which all timelines deviated, if he fails there, he just fails, cause you cant have an alternative timeline where he wipes out earth prime, because then that alternate timeline would not exist. It's a paradox, its existence precludes itself.

[@waynefiddler3609]

Except not pushing either button is also a choice. It's not a binary thing, something as simple as leading with his left foot can make a different branch, even saying "It doesn't matter" was a choice

[@bioshogushin606]

The concept of the Batman who laughs is practically everything that's wrong with modern iterations of Batman. Batman is no longer a strategist who always tries to find the good in people, he's just some edge lord LARPER that wins because the narrative said so.

[@thusluxx1358]

He’s literally infected with laughing gas what are you talking about strategy he’s smart very smart with the wit go joker

[@CrimsonGrowlithe]

@@thusluxx1358You don’t think…in *any* universe, bruce would have developed a serum or something to counteract it as a safety measure in his suit or something?

[@key1131]

@@CrimsonGrowlithei mean he actually developed a serum against the Jokers toxin on Batman: Arkham city

[@CrimsonGrowlithe]

@@key1131 Exactly! That’s why the Batman Who My OC Do Not Steal is such a stupid character!

[@crisgeraldperez7]

​@@key1131 Arkham City? I thought it was in Arkham Knight?

[@andrewobrien8325]

21:16 Something I find a tad scary is I don't think the unit of measurement exists in any language for how many people Owlman would have killed with that bomb.....it actually hurts my head to imagine the number.

[@arcticwolfplays5519]

I think another detail worth mentioning (and is deserves more attention) is that owls are predators of bats. This shows how Owlman is Batman but with his cold, hard and detached logic amped up but with none of his restraints.

[@Javetts]

Owlman is just so cool. Dates the WW equivalent, has connections to the court of owls, has his own robins (Talon). He's not just "Evil Batman", he's a legit take on a version of batman that is evil, including all the different life choices that would have needed. His worldview is justified, and more importantly, consistent not convenient. He doesn't even save himself, because he believes in his worldview just as deeply as Bruce believes in his.

[@alexanderchippel]

What's crazy is that a story about The Joker learning he's crazy not because of society but because he actually has brain damage from chemicals would be really cool. I think learning that he has no greater philosophical point and that everything he's ever done was actually never been his own doing would truly break him.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

And then maybe, now hear me out, in this hypothetical alternate scenario, he manages to kill Batman but then _becomes_ Batman as a sort of "funniest joke of all time" because without Batman "life has no punchline". Obviously this would have to result from a story that really deconstructs the Joker and displays Batman's great capacity for compassion, in which the Joker would have an epiphany and start his weird "reformation" after he kills a Batman that didn't give up on finding a cure for him...

[@alexanderchippel]

@@ellugerdelacruz2555 No that's lame.

[@lolstalgic9602]

Fan made Ideas like this exist, meanwhile, DC comics would rather write a story where Joker gets pregnant with Zatanna's baby

[@peanutbutter6720]

@@lolstalgic9602the sad thing is, I don’t know if you’re joking or not because I could 100% believe they wrote that.

[@ieatsand9259]

SPOILERS AHEAD but this is very similar to how things go in Batman: The Audio Adventures. We learn that Batman's been running tests on the chemical mix that turned Red Hood into Joker, and, contrary to Joker's belief, the mutations were purely physical- ACE Chemicals didn't make Joker the way he is mentally. Joker kinda freaks out over it

[@webvader3006]

I will say, after playing Batman Arkham Knight, if Batman didn’t overcome the fear toxin, that would’ve been a more compelling origin for the Batman Who Laughs. Food for thought.

[@firetarrasque4667]

The Batman Who Laughed *did* work, at first. The guy was legitimately popular and solidly intimidating. Then DC began shoehorning him into fucking everything and refusing to let him lose Ever *and then somehow it only got worse*

[@firetarrasque4667]

“Evil Doctor Manhattan” please kill me

[@thesmileman6931]

​@@firetarrasque4667 What the fuck is an evil Doctor Manhattan? "I can relate to normal humans and am not apathetic 😈😈😈"

[@SockHiggins]

once bro became big black batman i knew he was cooked as a character

[@ammagon4519]

​@@firetarrasque4667because the dude was apparently a good guy to begin with apparently

[@a.c.slater7989]

He was too popular

[@kevingluys3063]

I like to think that if there is a Batman Who Laughs universe, there is an opposite Joker Who Bats universe, that is essentially an inversion of a Marvel Ruins setting, where everyone makes the most wholesome choices and there aren't any villains, just more heroes, and they all only have to focus on preventing people from going down dark paths in the first place. Jolly philanthropist Bruce Wayne is the benefactor of a Sesame Street type program for Gotham and the Joker Who Bats is a regular guest who tells jokes while teaching the importance of sportsmanship, physical health, and not letting one bad day bring you down. Dr. Crane teaches kids that their worries are like crows, they can be a problem in a big swarm, but if you chase them away one by one, they're no match. Occasionally Constable Castle comes by as "The Preventer" to give PSAs about public safety topics.

[@rayvenkman2087]

And Johnny Jonah Jameson wants pictures of Spider-Man because those glowing articles needed some cool shots to go with them. Says to the public that he is a Menace II Society... Fan because he got sighted getting Tyrin Turner’s autograph.

[@Kaprosuchus-99]

I Think it would be more like Joker finally kills Batman and regrets what he did. He Gives up his Criminal Empire and even was planning on Killing himself, before Realizing that ending his own life would have them both fall into obscurity and never remembered, so, He decided to Leave his life as the joker behind and become the new Batman...However, as Much as he tries, he's not like the old one. he's Not stoic, He's Not Serious, and he always tries to incorporate a Joke into his Career. so, Gotham hates him. But, the Thing is, the whole experience as Batman changed him as a Person. Sure, he's still Funny and Crazy, but now he's compassionate, Caring, and Even heroic. Harley, who realizes this months after getting dumped, Loses her shit at the sight of Mr. J Impersonating the Man who's Made her Life a Living hell, and drops the Harley Quinn Shtick all together to Assume the New Title "Ms. Joker", Leading Bat-Joker on a Wild Goose Chase before Bombing The Batman Museum, which was made to honor the legacy of Bruce Wayne. Joker realizes he will Never be Batman and Momentarily drops his New Persona, Trying to be a Comedian but Being kicked out for his Old Life. However, he is Given a Pep-talk by a Now Adult Dick Grayson who sees he's Changed for the better, leading Joker to take up his Persona once more, but remaining true to his old Self. He manages to Stop Ms. Joker from blowing Up Wayne Manor, and accidentally sends her Plummeting to her death to the rocky shore below. after Saving Wayne manor and all the artifacts inside it, Gotham Finally Respects the New Bat-Joker, and Recognize him as the New Batman. But, they still do recognize and appreciate some differences. Sure, he's Batman, But One Thing They will always Love about him... Is That he's BAT-SHIT Insane

[@minchai2943]

​@@Kaprosuchus-99that's very well written.

[@epickduk]

​@@Kaprosuchus-99 This is a really well thought-out idea. I've thought for years how fun it would be to see the Joker make a genuine attempt to be Batman. After all, who understands Batman better than the Joker? Unfortunately, I could never really think of a good justification for it.

[@_Tzer]

dude someone make it a fancomic

[@magiccloud3074]

You know what I’d like to see? A story where the Joker decides to become Batman after Bruce Wayne dies. Protecting Gotham would be the perfect joke in his mind and would make for a much better backstory (in my opinion) for The Batman Who Laughs.

[@VoiceFGC]

Damn, that would be good actually

[@GoongisKahn]

Bruh the Batjoker is actually a genius idea

[@MercuryA2000]

I'm just imagining the absolute freakout Red Hood would have when he finds out. Dude would lose. His. Mind.

[@magiccloud3074]

@@MercuryA2000 Just another reason for Joker, in his mind, to do it. He’d never miss a chance at traumatising Red Hood even more.

[@redgeoblaze3752]

Kind of sounds like a DC version of Superior Spider-Man, but whatever. There are only so many comic stories you can do before you start repeating, and these franchises have been going on for the better part of a century at this point.

[@MousaThe14]

1:37 “Sure he might look cool” now that’s the biggest joke worth laughing for as far as that Batman’s concerned.