Why Painkillers Are VICIOUSLY Overpowered In Escape From Tarkov

[@C.u.d.s]

If they renamed the painkillers as “meth” it would make more sense to me.

[@sneed5709]

or they could add meth to the game and have it cost like 150 hp. i'd be fine with that

[@valgykmorka]

@@sneed5709 or they need to make 2 new npc from braking bad so you can make your own meth. and give meth to scavs and make army of meth heads.

[@robertbowden8573]

Some of the stims are practically meth

[@clancamper]

You get - stims that regenerate health - stims that stop blood loss - stims that make you stronger, faster and smarter - stims that lets you run almost forever - an unending supply of different ways to keep trucking despite being just a head and a chest you pay: w a t e r

[@aninnocent1544]

Honestly there should just be an addiction option, where the more you take a painkill the less it affects you. Issues with straight removing a substance after chugging it for a week straight 3x an hour might be too harsh tho lol.

[@alexmaurice4274]

I started hearing this as that Kanye song

[@DXIV12]

@@aninnocent1544 thats a fvcken good shout man. Surely some of these pmc's out here be poppin 5 sj6's to get that first buzz again.

[@ManicObsevations]

And some how they never cross react and you never overdose.

[@Syphaxis]

It would morbid, but kind of funny to clear a corner and see the PMC you were fighting just passed out in a puddle of pee, foamed at the mouth, after hearing him pop some stims.

[@andrewtoland2873]

We may escape from tarkov, but we’ll never escape the opioid crisis

[@Valost_One]

Gigabeef is one of the two Tarkov creators I will ever watch EVERY SINGLE video of. Man is a legend. Cool, calm, collected.

[@davycricket2]

Then am I correct in assuming the other one is Airwingmarine?

[@Valost_One]

@@davycricket2 FairTX. His animations are top tier.www.youtube.com/@fairTX

[@davycricket2]

@@Valost_One Ooooh that fair. I love his editing as well.

[@adaptabledisease]

yeah Giga is one of my main infocreators the second being Axel, for actual content your right FairTX actually ~creates~ content

[@Dondolini94]

​@@davycricket2 i love Airwing, one of the best at explaining tarkov, its mechanics and bts ( thought as he stated a couple days ago, he can't disclose much about ets but the dude would really love to tell us.)

[@HolgerAp]

Another fun way would be "addiction" and/or "resistance buildup". Using painkillers without active pain effect would increase an "addiction" value. After a certain threshold is reached, not using pain killers will cause negative effects like tremor. Along that, a "resistance" to the painkill coult build up, so using a pain killer will diminish it's effekt. Painkillers should not be binary "Pain" or "No Pain" but rather a scale. Good painkillers like Propi could eliminate any tremore with a blacked arm, while Golden Star would only reduce Tremor by 50% default and with "light resistance" only 40%, "medium resistance" only 30% and a "high resistance" only 20%. Addiction and Resistance could wear down over time like sore muscles. These numbers are, of course, just a demonstration and balancing should be done my professionals. This could keep a more realistic approach to the pre-pain meta. Also, I think, this could co-exist with the adrenaline effect. If you see flaws in my idea, feel free for constructive feedback ;)

[@HolgerAp]

And as a follow up idea: Painkillers like Vaseline would not create any addiction or resistance, as it's a very soft medication. But it therefore would only reduce pain effects by a low value and or short time. And, I feel the need to state it: Effects do not stack. Using Vaselin (-20% Tremor) and Analgin (-40% Tremor) will not result in -60% Tremor but only in -40%, the highest. (Again, numbers are just examples)

[@scarshe5978]

SPT Realism Mod uses a similar system and it works well!

[@philritter9042]

I was thinking about how to do it right and this feels like a really good solution to abusing the system but makes it better instead to just have a morphine or propital in your hot bar so if there are shots right in front of you maybe use it otherwise just do it once you got hit and hope you have enough time for it

[@magictheo624]

@@HolgerAp better lower value than short time. Re-applying it would be just painful. Also stacking is no problem as most people will not be bringing both Golden Star & ibuprufen for example. So it would be good to be able to stack them as it creates space for decision making (Just don't stack up to 100% maybe). Do I stay at x% only? Do I bring both? do i keep them both in gamma dropping something else? do i get one in gamma and one in pockets? etc

[@animekid69]

Very nice changes! Definitely in support of this

[@shampwoo]

I realized this when I’m running obdolbos 2. I was basically always on a propi painkill and was in plenty situations where I would’ve died had it not been for painkillers The comms would be ridiculous if teammates had to injure you. “I hear footsteps, shoot me with a blicky”

[@beekydogg]

Game devs need to take into account that we WILL break a system and take advantage of it. Plan accordingly

[@GamingZ_enith]

​@@beekydogglol only thing GB has hearted thus far

[@kujokage1911]

Painkillers and caffeine are OP in real life too the more i use them though the more the effects get nerfed

[@thepjup4507]

thats a pretty good one. just don't go up a step and go the "money is no object" route and end up on fentanyl and meth. although you would be pretty powerful in that state.

[@sp00der23]

new tolerance stat

[@TheHorzabora]

Offer what real life offers to habitual users - diminishing returns. The more often you use painkillers back to back (within 5/10/15/30m as balance dictates) the less time each painkiller / drug gives it’s effect. For extra addiction simulation, if you push that timer until the drug effectively lasts zero seconds, then *require* the drug to be taken over that time period. Weaning off could happen naturally in the first stage with no negative effects, and could have negative effects once a character is deemed ‘addicted’. Do not offer any escapes to this cycle, unless it’s rare found-in-raid loot.

[@tacticaltoaster5777]

Gonna split my comment into a section about adrenaline and then another about painkillers. 1. Adrenaline. 10-15 seconds after taking "major" damage of at least 30 hit points (to prevent stuff like barbed wire setting it off). Gives current/max painkiller effect (with 20% debuff described later), but also accompanied by a *minor* hands tremor effect that lasts a little longer than the adrenaline. You get a free chance to reposition but not immediately snap fire unless you had previous info going into the fight. Cooldown of adrenaline would require tuning but I'd say something like 5 minutes at a minimum, and possibly with an increasing timer each time. 2. Painkillers. Use a tiered effect system. 3 tiers, 3 being the current effect (but with 20% debuffs like suggested). When a tier expires it downgrades into the next tier for double the length (60 second tier 3>120 sec 2>240 sec 1). No PK would grant a tier 3 for longer than 120 seconds, making tier 3 pks more for making important moves in a fight than just having persistent immunity to injuries. Tier 2 suffers 40% debuffs, and tier 1 suffers 55% debuffs of your injuries. No pk is 100% ofc. Successive PKs of the same tier used in a raid decreases the duration of the effect by 15% each time. This isnt accounting for whatever bsg has planned for addiction, im just spitballing something they could implement within a mid-wipe patch for next wipe.

[@tacticaltoaster5777]

Additionally, rather than limiting when you can take PKs, instead make it so that when there's no injury affected by PKs having tier 2 or 3 PKs active causes the minor hand tremor that adrenaline causes. BSG could add some stims or edit existing ones that calm these shakes caused by the excess adrenaline and stimulants but those would have their own downsides. You trade off injury response for the ability to quickly and accurately engage at range, but the minor shakes can be alleviated by weapon mounting/bracing.

[@Valost_One]

GigaBeef is the knowledge, FairTX is the amusement.

[@1DanteadamS1]

I actually do like how it works and don't really see the issue. The PvP becomes deeper with it (again, arena enables it by default), because getting completely immobilized makes it impossible to fight back. And there are downsides, yes you might be able to almost entirely ignore them if you're high enough level but maybe that should be addressed. And if you pre-pain you also have to still go through the animation, if you do it too early it will end sooner, which might mean you'll have to use it again and pay the costs again, if you do it too late you might get caught off guard and it could be heard, so there's depth in that too. I honestly just don't see the issue, unless we consider that needing to use PK so much is real issue here, but it's part of design and idea of the game

[@ronski4677]

The issue is that there is no downside to constantly being on painkillers, and as such you have to always be on painkillers to be competitive. You may not see the problem but it is purely just poor game design.

[@thekidd7860]

@@ronski4677 So what?? Like really pks stims the whole 9 seems fine, only people who complain are people not doing it or not understanding position and placement (new players). now i will say i don't use goldenstars or any painkiller besides adren and props i avg 2 props a raid in usage ngl but its not like I'm stimmed all the time if i know imma take on more then a 1v1 I'm prolly gonna prop i also never really let myself get caught away from cover minus maybe woods or outskirts of resort. but even then i take paths that put me in relatively good concealment and i see enemies before they see me. i don't normally see a point in premeds in the first place but as some with 6k hrs i also do see a issue using them. TBH i love my drug addiction simulator i currently have 2.5 med cases full of prop lol.

[@ForOne814]

@@ronski4677 it's not poor game design. Painkillers cost money and have drawbacks that you have to deal with. Sure, you have to pre-med to stay competitive, but you also have to build specific guns and use specific ammo to stay competitive, so it fits within the core game design.

[@p0lter7]

Nobody in real life would pop a million painkillers in a day? Nobody would pre-med in real life? You would be a damn addict, drooling all over the floor. Not pop head eyes and sprinting through broken limps with 10 bullets in you. Being immobilised after being shot, seems logical to me. Yes it costs some cash just like guns/ammo. But it's not just about risk/reward for me. It's about common sense. Having better guns/ammo can be explained. Having a whole drug cocktail and running through bullets and broken bones and it not effecting you 1 bit is just not common sense. And yes it's a game and many aspects will never reflect real life. But the painkillers are just borderline absurd and make absolutely 0 sense

[@ForOne814]

@@p0lter7 seems logical - plays awful. It has been tried, painkillers are in the game because they promote intended gameplay. Otherwise everyone were just leaving the raid after getting shot once, or just died. The problem is that from the realism perspective, people do that all the time just on adrenaline alone. It just depends on where exactly they got hit. And to replicate that, you need to simulate internal organs and terminal ballistics, which is way too complicated and hardware-demanding.

[@GamingZ_enith]

Havent seen the video yet, but I completely agree, I think it would be a good fix to add a new mechanic where for each of a painkiller you take in a raid, the next one will last for less time and the downsides will increase, so by your third ibuprofen, the painkiller might only last for 120 seconds and have -40 hydration. That would force people to take it more tactfully rather then every time their painkiller wears off.

[@sqike001ton]

or make the tunnel vision blur last longer and longer till by the third pop you got a solid minute of blur effect

[@kernel_inpage_error]

@@sqike001ton or make a persistent max health debuff that wears off only 2-3 days after the last painkiller application. You know, human liver is not typically grateful for spamming either pills or alcohol

[@boost2223]

And how would this idea reset back to normal painkiller effect times?

[@GarmaProject]

@@boost2223 it resets the next raid I was thinking exactly the same possible solution. Like an addiction. Less effect, more downsides.

[@stretchedapart]

As some have said the fix is both simple and intuitive, as well as being realism friendly. Adrenaline effect. SPT has the tarkov realism mod that implements this quite well i think. If you are shot at and missed, you get brief tunnel vision and a very short increase to running speed and reload speed. If you are hit but dont take damage/the bullet doesnt pen your armor, you get a longer duration effect that also applies the painkiller effect for around 15 seconds. If you are shot and take significant damage, such as a pen or high damage ammo, you get maybe a 30 second adrenaline effect that afterwards gives you tunnel vision and tremor as drawbacks which can be treated by then taking an applicable painkiller item. Idk why this isnt a thing already, as it means blacked or broken legs and arms still matter, but the legs arent a near instant death sentence without specific items.

[@HellDuke-]

To be fair this would not really solve the issue that is discussed. Any adrenaline system on its own is insufficient, there must be some sort of downside to constantly popping painkillers. Saying you don't absolutely have to be on constant painkillers doesn't mean they won't be. I'd say this would make 0% of the playerbase that premed to stop premeding. Think about it this way, the system allows me to get to cover, heal and restart the fight. Great. Why not just pre-med like I always do and just finish the fight right there and heal afterwards? It's a crutch to people that forget to do it, but does nothing to address the people doing it consistently.

[@stretchedapart]

@ that’s why it should be accompanied by a painkiller rework, as well as the addiction system later. I think PK’s should be in categories (like realism mod) where some painkillers only help with your arms being injured and the actual “pain” effect, these should be the longest duration. This would be lip balms, analgin, ibuprofen, etc. Then medium tier PK’s let you walk normally with blacked legs and maybe run briefly if certain criteria are met (just one leg fracture, or when accompanied by adrenaline) and these painkillers last maybe 2 or 3 minutes. These would be your propitol, and similar stims with some additional utility. Then there’s full painkillers like we have now with a brief duration probably under a minute with serious negative effects such as plummeting hydration, DOT, and eventually maybe some rare fatal effects, this would be your morphine and adrenaline injectors. The “fatal” conditions for full PK’s makes sense given it isn’t exactly safe to mainline fucking morphine, especially in high stress situations (like being shot). This system allows for some utility in pre-paining so min-max players can still get a little bit of advantage from spending the money but not enough to make it anywhere near necessary to do so. Also makes it near impossible to have full PK’s all the time and incredibly cost inefficient to have medium PK’s on regularly.

[@someguy3789]

As someone who is colorblind, I actually liked the sharpness effect more, I know streamers cried about it to no end, but it was much nicer for me.

[@kernel_inpage_error]

If BSG implements these other debuffs instead of visuals only, I think that would be a nice idea for them to make the player choose the visual painkiller effects of their liking. AFAIK there is a mod for SPT that allows reverting the "old" painkiller sharpness effect, though not sure whether it is still supported

[@marcobaggio2734]

In my opinion one solution could be centered around the duration of painkiller. You are allowed to premed to avoid being legged while crossing risky areas, but each shot received reduces significantly the remaining duration of the painkiller. This way, an attacker with a noticeable advantage in the fight can still gain said advantage of limping the pre-pained adversary by overpowering the painkiller in a matter of a couple shots, while the pre-pained player can still resist the occasional leg shot sustained while gambling an escape or an heavy trade. Either way the heavier the fight the higher the need to stop and consume more painkillers making them indirectly more expensive, hence a well thought use instead of a mindless prepop

[@martinleland3969]

Thank you for the tarkov content over the years gigabeeeeeeeef

[@bc9554]

6:10 what a doink jesus

[@atomatolike5754]

They should make it that you can "overdose" on them, like you can only apply painkillers once in a while, otherwise you would get debuffs (tremor, blurry vision, vomiting) or even death

[@HellDuke-]

That would be a good de-merit. Whatever changes are made, they must make consistent use of painkillers a risk. In my comment I suggested just an unavoidable side-effect at the end of the duration like the one you get at the start of golden star (maybe a bit longer). That way, if you are always on painkillers, then you will regularly get that blur, which may be during a fight causing a different kind of problem. Straight up overdosing and dying might be a bit too harsh and taking damage due to overdoes doesn't really achieve anything

[@dunbar555]

try running with a brkoen tibia... pain killers or not..

[@pagingdoctorsideburns]

While we’re at it can we just admit that taking a hit from a can of vasoline or goldenstar gets you through several minutes of total pain immunity? I mean, the adrenaline needle or morphine maybe but vasoline? Ibuprofen? Bro Ibuprofen is a godsend but it won’t even make my headaches go away, I don’t think it’d let me work through a gunshot wound even short term

[@robertozee5024]

My head canon is that ibuprofen is Tylenol-3.

[@colce9724]

I think the best way to balance them would just be to reduce the effectiveness. Like even if you take them you can only sprint/run at 60-75% of your max speed and still have a small limp when you walk. And maybe even for cheaper painkillers, as they wear off they become less effective. Incentivises avoiding getting shot in the first place, or on the contrary if you're the person doing the shooting, your bullets actually doing something when you hit someone's leg. Also sets numerous price-balancing options of "is it worth it" to constatly stay at your max pain removal

[@summerleeye588]

something i think would help is when you get shot at you receive an adrenalin dump effect. this would allow players to run away but at the expense of having a blacked limb or fracture for 30 seconds before feeling the effects of the blacked limb/ fracture. or make it where you have to eat and drink before taking oral meds do to having sound ques like someone a grumbling tummy.

[@thebrick619able]

My thoughts on the system to change would be that you would need to have to stack painkillers to deal with the different conditions you have. In such a case as a broken leg 1 stack will reduce noise such as grunts and reduce the speed penalty since you can deal with the pain easier, 2 will let you walk at full pace remove the grunts of pain completely, 3 will let you move faster, 4 stacks even more so, 5 stacks full movement (pretty much split the movement speed bar into 5). Have the different painkillers give different amounts of painkiller stack and a delay depending on the usage method such as pills having a long delay activation(1-2 mins for digestion) at most 2 stacks while the injectors are immediate and can give however much painkiller stacks to whatever BSG thinks is balanced (personally propital should only give 1), vaseline i would probably give like 30 sec delay and only a stack. To top off this system would be an overdose system from 6 stacks and up you lose health gradually or maybe reduced effectiveness over time such as personal resistance to stims and painkillers (i prefer the OD system). With this at least people should think more about how they approach combat or be more considerate of what they use, i could also see people doing the same stuff but it jsut cost more rubles to do it (well it ain't perfect)

[@speedyazi5029]

Good points. For me, I wish Adrenaline would be a natural pain killer if you are shot with extreme damage - maybe a blacked limb or limb put in below 10 HP (red zone). Maybe once per raid or once per 20 minutes. It’s both realistic and helps with fights that you aren’t PK’ed in. I also like the idea of external painkillers causing either addiction and really bad negative debuffs or having worse painkiller buffs each time. So a first time use could be 300 seconds, but after 20 uses consistently every raid with no significant break of a few hours (which is days in game), it may last 100 seconds.

[@aaronwhite1786]

I'm interested to see how they even work at all, since I never really did use painkillers before aside from those little aspirin tablets that I would pop after getting shot, thinking they helped keep me from getting blurred vision after healing. It also feels like they should create a long term painkiller effect that affects you character over time, causing you to need to use the painkillers more while their effects slowly diminish the more frequently you use them, eventually forcing the player to get the injectors and use them just to avoid negative effects like health loss and hunger/thirst issues for their PMC in and out of raids.

[@Brittjones]

I have been trying to find a video like this for a month! Thanks! Your content is amazing!

[@mrjohn2736]

i have said it once, i will say it again!! Stim/Medicin toxicity like IRL no one dopes 3-4 shots of different chemicals, and certanly not combat stims without heavy toxicity or chemicals killing you cause you combined too many. i feel like it should work like cultist poisen or something with tick damage that either gets worse and worse the more "toxicity" you have or straight up lowers limb health permenatly for the raid. i get things should not be realistic too much, but damn seeing people spawn in, Pop SJ6 and propitol to then rush something they want is just absurd. there needs to be an anti abusing element to the overdose of stims/medicin

[@tompeters5903]

I’ve always wanted them to change pk to removing existing pain effects rather than preventing them. Like how bandages work. It would also give some under used stims a boost if they did prevent pain for a short time like adrenaline.

[@briancamilleri6200]

A good fix would made to make it so there’s is a delay in the effectiveness of painkillers when receiving new injuries after they’ve been popped 6-8 seconds or so.

[@mrsteve555]

something you didnt mention was that propital give you a level boost of +20 for health and vitality, this means you take less damage and bleed slower, and you can even gain the max level perks if you have level 31.

[@deepspacewanderer9897]

Instead of the system decribed in the video, i would propose a slightly different mechanic of Adrenaline and a mechanic of Painkiller Tolerance implemented in the following way: Core idea TL;DR - don't nerf Painkiller power, make it impossible to have their effect 100% of the time. Also give Adrenaline a short delay to not make it completely negate the effect of getting your legs broken. 1)When a Player uses a Painkiller, upon getting the Painkiller Effect added, a player also gets

[@stickfig77]

This has been the case since med animations were introduced. It made sense to not "pre med/pain" when you could hit a hotkey and get out of a bad situation. Ever since they were added, it changed the whole game and everyone just works around it. That's just how this game is, you do your best to ignore everything that isn't shooting and moving, all other mechanics just get in the way if you are playing PvP.

[@NunSuperior]

Hurting yourself to get access to drugs is a little too real.

[@Pat-The-Fat]

I know you mentioned it on the scav podcast but didn’t go in-depth about Nikita saying that he really wanted Tarkov to finally go into 1.0 so he could focus on other things. This kinda worried me as it suggests that he is tired of the game which is reinforced by his reactions to criticism from the community. What do you think ? A video would be great

[@pasttenseofdraw5791]

I think my favorite wipe change they made was when propital didn't have painkiller but still regen and the only early game stim with both was adrenaline and for a shorter duration. Felt way more balanced, made morphine have a role, and made progression towards the higher level stim s make more sense rather than just unlocking propital and never having to to worry about anything else. It was a revert that the community demanded and I was sad to see as it made more RPG progression, same with the painkiller visual effects I think those could do to be stronger, I never had that much issue with them for years. Adrenaline system would mix in well with all of these changes.

[@therealwetwizard]

I really like the idea of the adrenaline system maybe have it last 15 to 20 seconds, so that way it's long enough for you to get in a good position with a long cooldown of like 3-6 mins (needs testing) However we also shouldn't stop prepaining, as it isn't it necessity anymore, I do believe we should increase the debuffs of energy and hydration use.

[@sorinmanea8532]

You are really good at narrating and talking, I enjoyed listening

[@DropinNukes]

They could make it where you can only take them when you’re injured/blacked limbs, idk how the community would feel about that but I feel like that would solve this issue.

[@adriantaner7950]

maybe add a mechanic that makes you vomit when on too much stims and painkillers like extreme tunnel vision, and then vomit, you loose a lot of hydration for it and theres an animation. also you could tremble and fall and not be able to control your recoil as good or make recoil stronger since painkillers numb you.

[@EC-ip3mm]

Could have some kind of dependency mechanic as well. If you take painkillers while you take fire, you don't risk getting addicted as much, but if you just constantly pop painkillers even without needing it you end up addicted with a whole host of severe debuffs. Adrenaline is a great idea too, although personally I'd like it so it takes a few seconds to work if you get shot from long range from a suppressed gun, sort of a "realization" period. So you'd be walking around in Shoreline, your leg suddenly flares in pain and you can no longer walk properly, then as the next few shots come in you realize you are under fire and THEN adrenaline kicks in. Also adrenaline shouldn't be damage dependent. if you turn a corner and there's an enemy, say Tagilla rigbt there, you should also get adrenaline even if you don't take damage. A 7 foot maniac sprinting at you with a sledgehammer should release the adrenaline just as much as if an enemy PMC suddenly appeared in front of you and sprayed both your legs. Same with taking fire near you, almost like suppresion in battlefield.

[@Der_Thrombozyt]

First of all: Removing PK when a break is fixed just means I don't fix the break and ask my team mate to shoot me in the arm. Left arm preferably. I can still run without shouts of pain and any debuffs are covered by the PK. I think there are multiple issues creating that situation: 1) Availability: The economy allows for 24/7 painkillers, so 24/7 painkillers it is. 2) 100% removal of any negative effect of injury. 3) No negative side effects meaning no trade off for being on PK 24/7. I really don't see, why pre-paining should be fully abolished. Just like you want to inject combat drugs PRIOR to the engagement, painkillers are sensible preparation for entering a hot spot. Though it must come at a cost. I really like the adrenalin system - the duration and cooldown could even be affected by the vitality stat! So here is my suggestion: 1) Availability: Only have low level PKs on traders with both Ibu and Goldenstar FIR only and vasiline on a craft and barter. Ibu and Goldenstar last 10 minutes, but have a continuous hydration/energy debuff for the entire duration. Vasiline about 5 mins with small debuffs on both. 2) Currently a shot out leg gives you e.g. -40% speed and a limp. PK fixes the limp, but only removes 70-90% of the debuff. Ideally I'd like to introduce 2 levels of PK with regular meds and adrenaline system giving one level (stacking) and injectors 2 level. Lvl 1 allows you to run and not limp, but only removes 40% of the debuff. 3) Change the Immunity skill so that it's reducing the effect time of positive effects to the tune of .75% per skill level. Immunity decreases a little after each raid with a stacking bonus for each raid you survived without popping drugs. So if you pre-pain constantly, you get very little out of your stims pretty quickly. Yes, it'll be helpful to prepain if you KNOW you are entering a fight, but you have to weigh the risk of a fight with the side effects.

[@fistan5447]

4:30 Fundamental change needs to happen between movement with black legs while under pain killers vs without painkillers. Not being able to move while under fire is death sentence, there's no 2 ways about it. And yes, i literally thought of that adrenaline rush system before i even heard of you saying it. Although duration should be more around 20 seconds as 5-10 seconds is not enough time to react properly. This is simply natural observation of what 2 different states mean for a player's chance of survival at any engagement. And its the only option we have. And i'd also prefer painkillers to have no effect on visuals. Visual cancer has survived long enough.

[@ЯБезымянный-о5ф]

I see the problem in the absence of "natural" painkillers. Pain syndrom takes some time to develop in real life. In other words, depending on your pre-injury adrenaline level and mental condition your experience may vary quite a lot, up to the point where you suddenly notice your pants are wet with blood from the wound you didn't even feel. What I believe Tarkov needs is a mechanic that allows you to ignore the effect of a blacked limb or broken bone for a short (like from 3 to 15 sec) period of time, gradually progressing into full effect of the injury. The length of this grace period can be linked to a skill, as well as the severity of the effect itself. This would both eliminate the need to pre-pop pk without removing the need for meds if the fight takes longer than 5 seconds.

[@h_oplite]

Maybe something like the higher your level the less long it lasts? You would build up immunity to the effects of it if you continuously take them, so could also be something like the more you take painkillers per raid or X amount of raids, the next couple of raids have them last less.

[@greatesttyrant4853]

If you're not running a hot-keyed prope in your pocket, you're harming yourself.

[@jespersundqvist737]

make it so that you just overdose and die after using painmeds more than a few times in a single raid

[@galacticc6834]

I've always thought that if you blacked a limb you should get a 15s (or so) adrenaline effect allowing you to run to cover mimicking what would happen in real life.

[@kernel_inpage_error]

It was such a relief for me to forget about this painkiller meta bullshit once I've switched to PvE. You can increase your chances of winning the fight with them, sure, but it is not a dealbreaker if you forgot to pop a stim or decided not to use them at all What you offer in the video sounds like a perfectly good alternative, though I would possibly go further and give some of the non-painkiller stims, like SJ6, Mule or Obdolbos, some additional side-effects, so they won't be that stupidly overpowered. I mean, at least force the PMC to get hungry and thirsty some time after they've popped in stims that increases their stamina and max load, and they've sprinted across the map with a tank battery in the backpack

[@danhay2505]

6:11 what a beaut of a headshot!

[@aaron4820]

I think painkillers should only work for old pains, not to prevent new pains or breaks. The only drug that will give you the ability to shrug off new injury are things like Tarkov fictional combat stims or adrenalin with significant side effects after it wears off. Also the adrenalin effect never lasts very long (as measured in low minutes, if not 30 seconds). So you could pre-med, but it's really for the ultra chads, and only for before or during a big fight, and each subsequent re-injection of adrenalin type meds would give you increasing chance of a freaking heart attack, so by the 4th stim you pop, you have a 25% of just dropping dead. This would make quite a big difference when it comes to ambush success rates and chads being careful before sprinting through the entire map. In addition, I wish they would test a hardcore event where they remove all hp meds, i.e. all meds only heal status effects, but nothing will give you back HP until you get back to the hideout. So if you have a break or a bleed, great, heal those, but nobody could take a bullet and patch it up like it never happened, this would be a really interesting change of pace as a more hardcore event test, and absolutely nobody would risk getting shot when they don't need to even by a makarov, even if it's just in the arm.

[@General_PunisheR]

BSG need just add stacking duration penalty that reducing time of next painkiller effect. From 10% for analgin up to 50% for something strong like propital and golden star for each use. First propital 245s, second 123s, third 61s and etc. Stacks decay at rate of doubled duration of painkiller effect. This will be a simple way to simulate addiction and buff less pleasing to use painkiller variants.

[@shootski]

This was my first full wipe. I like the way pain killers work now. Dont change them

[@rutrose2000]

Maybe a addiction status could be applied if painkillers are abused which would debuff any effects you got from them.

[@987koolkid]

Not sure why ppl think it’s an issue. They are balanced being expensive, low use, tanks energy/ hydro terrible screen graphics. As long as the blacked leg mechanic is in the game pk needs to be in the game. Period.

[@thekidd7860]

amen

[@apathypeace]

Broken Leg requires a Splint, Blacked Leg requires a CMS, Light Bleed requires a Bandage, Heavy Bleed requires a Tourniquet. Why do all that when I can just stab a "funny pen" into my thorax? The real issue isn't the meds it's the ability to pay to avoid game mechanics-instead of nerfing stims they should nerf damage effects, in turn, making lower tier meds more viable.

[@mileslemon]

4:10 the easiest way I could see this being exploited is by people breaking their arms on the benchpress in their hideout, instantly being injured when they enter raid. Or you could just not heal from the previous raid.

[@min0tauer]

The adrenaline effect has already been discussed several times on Veritas' podcast and would solve a number of problems. The idea that you lose energy when you get hit is nonsense and the adrenaline would help against that too. You should also eventually become resistant to painkillers if you take them too often (like candy). The more resistance you build up, the more the effect and duration decreases until you eventually become immune to painkillers. You could get rid of the immunity again if you play without painkillers for long enough, basically go through withdrawal (but in raids, not offline). That could stop players from constantly taking painkillers beforehand if it has more negative effects in the long run than it helps. If you only use them for what they are intended for, you get all the advantages. As it is at the moment, you only have advantages that are increased with max metabolism.

[@sawneybean1936]

I agree with a lot of the points made but I don't see more damage added to having a black legged being a positive change. With the double bug you can already get a feel for what having increased damage would feel like. I think the grunt your character makes with a blacked leg is a fair trade up for having a black legged while on painkillers

[@soloarchie4613]

Just make it so that your health in the ui not show any damage you take/have taken so you are required to open your inv to see your true health

[@th1nkfast349]

Drug toxicity should be a thing, along with bodily acclimation after repeated pain killer usage throughout several raids, this way the PK's would have a diminishing effect the more they are abused. They could also make it to where mixing certain painkillers/stims can cause major debuffs or even kill you.

[@FejkTV]

Imo painkillers are fine in the current state, but the thing Tarkov needs to fight that premed meta is simply adding Adrenaline Rush status and getting it after being hit for short duration like 3s (with cooldown like 30-60s) that would let you sprint without stamina and give temporarly painkiller effect preventing limping in the middle of open space letting you take cover and pop painkiller to react to the situation instead of eating 5 ibuprofen every raid.

[@Lowaver]

I see everyone talking about adding complicated systems. Why not just have it where painkillers are more about reactive than proactive? By this, you use them like everything else. But they only ever last for like 30-60 seconds. Enough to use in a fight and quickly move to heal. But not enough to pre-pain for the whole raid. Every painkiller would be useful because you can trade in their drawbacks with water usage, energy usage, or a combo.

[@Pyrohawk]

People are only now figuring this out? I don't think I've spent more than 10 minutes _total_ without a Vaseline applied since level 15 for the past 2 wipes. IMO what would nerf painkillers in a realistic way is making them make you drowsy: blurry tunnel vision (like the pre-greyscale implementation), and a huge penalty to ADS over swing, such that only really high ergo weapons like pistols and smgs can be aimed quickly. You want to aim fast and use PKs? No high-pen ammo for you

[@Chrom35kull]

What about a background buildup of drug use, the more you take the less effect they have? Sort of like a poison system that has no effect until your buildup hits a certain level and each level gets progressively worse.

[@SpaceDoge103]

the worst part is when you're a begginer that only gets to use painkillers that ruin your hydration and arent as effective. I ran into the issue years and years ago when i had to choose whether i put my money on a higher tier of armor or buy painkillers.

[@dionysus6081]

Problem with this idea, it would heavily favor EOD & unheard players because they can fit a surv 12 in their secured container. Standard players already have to deal with just a 2x2, docs case ifac injector case, no room for surgery kit

[@Lornext]

If people couldnt pre pain, I would get so many kills each wipe just because of that... But I basically spend 1 whole vaseline per raid myself by pre paining. I believe people would cry even more if they couldnt pre pain tbh. and thus think pre paining is better than not having it, just because it is insanely toxic to get caught in the open otherwise.

[@HellDuke-]

It's fine as a first step but giving an out that doesn't make it absolutely necessary to be pre-meded all the time is only half the solution. People will still do it with a system like this, because it means you don't have to stop to pop the painkiller in the fight. So there should be some risk/reward instead. You know how some stims impair your vision when their effect ends? Well, why not have every painkiller have the same effect as the golden star once they end on their own. That way pre-meding means that you are now in a scenario where if you don't get hit and the fight happens on the tail end of the painkiller effect you might get your vision impaired mid-fight, however if you do get injured and fix the injury, with the proposed system the painkiller effect is ended early with no additional side effect. This means that there is a reason to do so (you get more time to get to cover and fix the injury than if you just rely on the adrenalin system), but there is a risk associated with it. If there is no inherent risk with pre-meding then people will continue to do so even with an adrenalin system, that's just not a good enough solution. Additionally, stacking painkiller effects should either not be allowed or the effects would overlap. So if you had a painkiller effect remaining for 2 minutes and pop a 3-minute painkiller, then you'd get a vision side effect after 2 minutes and again after 3 minutes. That disincentivizes stacking painkillers to extend the duration and avoid the side effect without having to add complicated damage or addiction mechanics.

[@Arch1_ez]

It's just because there is no adrenaline system in tarkov, a large majority of the bullets in tarkov 1 tap limbs. With a sort of adrenaline system you should be able to run on a blacked leg for maybe 60 seconds or so after the leg goes black. People consider painkillers so "overpowered" because the instant limp system is a thing. Getting a blacked limb especially anywhere in the open is almost always death. An adrenaline system would make painkillers considerably less "op".

[@Chevalier_knight]

I run painmeds 100% of the raid, i pop a stim right away then use star then pills and use them at 1 charge in crafting to make more stims.

[@sqike001ton]

so i like the visual painkiller effect it really added to the risk vs reward I kind of think the adrenaline system with going back to the visual painkiller then a sprinkle of running causes a lot more damage would be best but i an in the harder is better and picking a fight with a PMC should be a risk VS reward choice i tend to only take fight if i need the fight

[@Bloody7890]

As a EFT Noob i would say just increase damage taken while running with blacked leg and remove health regeneration from drugs.

[@marton3256]

the dubble damage bug with a black leg kills you kinda fast in a losing fight

[@EtienneMorin-ot1hr]

That adrenaline system is a good idea, this might prevent more people to join the rat side than a simple painkiller nerf. Painkillers are not realistic in Tarkov, but that’s not important. What is important is how they interact with the gameplay and make the experience more enjoyable.

[@Joemac1989]

They should make it where the more you use painkillers, the shorter their effect becomes. So you build tolerance from using them. Eventually a morphine might only last 20-30 seconds if you spam them too much. They could create a a soft skill just for this purpose. ?

[@majinojinn]

Late game sure. Wipe day: take 1 Analgin pill? -1 million dehydration, -1 million energy, screen blurred, PMC voice-lining for everyone to hear you're in trouble, and spend 6 years hiding behind a closed door in crack house Customs chain drinking milk trying not to die.

[@SteppingJaguar]

I think painkillers should have a diminishing effect so if you keep popping them they start to work less and less

[@longplaylegends]

It is a little crazy... But you're right, you HAVE to use them because everyone else will! It's the only way to effectively fight gigachads, because you'd better believe they always take them.

[@apakskep]

On point as usual, thanks Giga.

[@SharonBaxton]

As a recovering opiate addict I can confirm painkillers are viciously OP irl as well

[@darthhuller5201]

Imo an adrenaline system combined with a nerf to the painkiller effect itself would be the way to go. The problem isn't even that people pre med or that pre medding works, the problem is that losing a leg without painkiller is a death sentence and with a painkiller you are 100% functional and there is no feedback for blasting someone's legs out from under them, which is the same reason why adrenaline effects should be very short, long enough to get to cover but not enough for a fight. Painkillers should be nerfed by making them restore only 75% or so of your abilities instead of 100%. You can hobble away on a broken leg but no amount of drugs is going to make you able to sprint and jump as if nothing happened (unless therapist put crack in your propital needles). And while on the subject, hitting arms should have a more pronounced effect too, legs are getting all the attention while losing arms is barely noticeable.

[@greenaceman5351]

They said something about addiction at some point

[@funpolice8601]

They should add a 10% to die of a heart attack whenever you pop a painkiller

[@ethanbarrettdebattista5124]

I've definitely had my dude drop dead after stacking 3 morphine's.

[@gage__tm]

i think people should just take increased damage if on painkillers by some percentage

[@FutureLaugh]

running on a blacked limb is detrimental because if youre on deaths door step as it is, the little sprint can kill you. OR in some cases, worse than the damage of running on a break, is you screaming which can completely give away your position to your opponent and entice him knowing you are heavily damaged and running out of time between med. Medding is annoying but it is the only game ive ever played that has it so i say keep it. 99% of the time medding, armor, ammo, nothing matters because you get headshot by players with none of the above anyway.

[@seedmole]

"the game resembles a weird drug simulator" yes that's literally the entire point of the plot

[@theogjunit.8523]

At this point my PMC's bloodtype is propitol

[@E_xtinctPower]

well something i have to remind myself of when playing tarkov is just how unrealistic it can be, but i do agree that this is a bit of a problem, would be cool if the adrenaline system you mentioned was a part of Tarkov as that would benefit everyone even if it only lasted a second or two.

[@Akay_TM]

ngl they could just make it so that painkillers work on broken/blacked limbs after a set time instead of instantly

[@Armoredcompany]

This is another reason why I prefer PvE. I don't have to constantly be shoving needles in my arms like a heroin addict because I know no one else is either.

[@spinman9979]

I am all for reworks and changes that closely follow feedback from players (lmao) but one take I'm not big on is extra damage on blacked legs specifically due to the time it takes to put together again (and more frequently since HP is reduced every time) even with a CMS . On broken limbs, which you can easily create distance and splint out of, I do not mind. Same thing with movement speed debuffs although I am very biased towards movement, but without a negative, the rock-paper-scissors aspect of your proposed changes fall apart. Eitherway as long as BSG doesn't butcher and punish this somewhat less RNG gameplay mechanic and monitor feedback we should be fine. (also spinman mentioned raaaaggghhh glad you've seen success after my complaints)

[@torry2]

I think it just needs some non-passive debuffs. I dont understand BSGs obsession with making the downside of painkiller a visual effect. Theres so many stats and mechanics they could tweak on the fly to debuff you for being on PKs. Some random ideas: lower some skill levels like strength or endurance, reduction of max stamina, debuffs to move speed, turn speed, and ergo, increase weapon sway. If the purpose of painkillers is to make it so you can stay more mobile in combat, then being on them should be some type of nerf to your combat effectiveness.

[@sirukin7849]

Leave painkillers as-is. Nerf propital. Solved all the issues. It should heal over a slightly longer period of time but much less than it does now. It's being used as an engagement health multiplier, 3btg fits that's. Propi should be in-between fight heals. And painkillers should be on their own.

[@TheIronHip]

Have some pain killers be only moderately effective (Vaseline, goldenstar), and have the more effective pain killers (morphine, propital) have an overdose mechanic which would be a percentage chance of death that grows the more you take, and resets after the raid.

[@Chevalier_knight]

No, adding random deaths is bad game design.

[@martynaskerdokas8438]

@@Chevalier_knight But then do you think that taking 4 pens of morphine would not kill you irl ? :D, perhaps OP should rephrase with the mechanic being not a random chance, but a threshold, for example, 1 pen is fine, 2 pens give a negative effect like a mild blur around the sides of the screen, and 3 pens give either really nasty effects, loss of stamina etc. or death a couple minutes after injecting in the form of 50/50 chance. That's my take on morphine and propital. Golden star and vaseline are joke mechanics in the game compared to irl, so their effect should be knocked down a peg or two, perhaps only helping mild pain for 60 seconds or something. Golden star could also give immunity, like milk does, but not be on the same level as an ibuprofen.

[@italiansandvich6]

Im kinda more towards the line of making painkillers useless. If your leg gets blacked you should experience at least some reduction of movement. Maybe tarkov will get some version of leg armor later in the game's development because LEG meta is already kind of overpowered and this change would make it even worse.

[@BlurDeploy]

Hell yeah!! You know what else bsg should do? every food and drink item your pmc consumes should raise a "bowel bar" in your inventory so that once it gets full you have to pick a spot to crouch for 4 minutes and allow your pmc to relieve themselves! If you go into a pvp fight while the bowel bar is full, and you didn't do your daily dooty, your pmc should have cold sweats and tremors not allowing you to see clearly during the fight! Oh also this change would be incredible because it would give the toilet paper you find in raids some ACTUAL USE! You should have to load into every raid with Tp in your backpack because thats what a properly prepared Marine would do! If you survive through too may raids without wiping then your pmc should get dysentery and rapidly lose hp from the infection until cured!!

[@martynaskerdokas8438]

They should add an infection mechanic where if you get a blacked stomach, it simulates your bowels getting perforated and giving you sepsis. This could be simulated with increasingly negative effects, not just current hydro loss, but a fever, worse vision, mild tremor. Therefore even if you did surgery and fixed your guts, they would still be infected and require augmentin or the antibiotic pen, giving them some much needed usefulness. Getting hit in the belly irl is horrible, especially if your armor fails to protect.

[@freshdachs6200]

I like the adrenaline idea a lot! Maybe make it so you can still sprint with broken/blacked legs, but maybe reduce the speed a bit. It would even be semi-realistic.

[@kittycat2863]

I think that pain killers would feel better on a scale with Vaseline at the bottom and morphine at the top.

[@tiagodaniel6127]

they will add adiction and that i think will reduce the benefits the more you use i guess

[@germanyman2361]

I Actually really enjoy the way Painkillers are implemented currently. The last thing I want personally is more tedium.

[@BBMILITIA13224]

What do you mean? The current system is very tedious. Every 5 minutes I have to jump in a bush, open my inventory and wait 5 seconds for my PMC to eat another ibuprofen.