Why Pavers Fail | 5 Reasons and How to Prevent Them

[@patricksullivan80]

Installed my first paver patio in 1978. Thirty years experience as an installer. ICPI Senior Instructor, having taught thirty-two ICPI installation certification seminars, (3.5 day seminars). Excellent explanation of base installation. It is good to know that you young guys understand the heart of the system. Good work. Keep it up!

[@iamahardscaper]

Really appreciate that! Thank you

[@davekushman2363]

I’m in Durham region, part of the GTA we switched a few years ago to pretty much solely open grade base. 3/4 clear topped with hpb for the bedding layer, we charge enough for our work that we’d rather go thicker on base than thinner so we’re generally around 10 inches plus brick for patios and walkways and 14-18 for driveways. I have personally found having the void space in the base material prevents heaving with freeze thaw cycles by giving water and ice an area to do its business without affecting the pavers. We pride ourselves on doing the job right the first time so homeowners never need to call us back even though we offer a full warranty

[@iamahardscaper]

I’m in Toronto 👍 Also agree, mostly use open graded

[@aulivn4jc]

I'm using a 0 3/4 compacting gravel as my base for my patio project. I have been told i should use a fine screening material for my screeding base but I'm leaning more towards hpb for better drainage. Thanks for your videos. Very helpful.

[@iamahardscaper]

Glad they help. 0 3/4 I assume is 3/4 inch down to fines. You really have two options, HPB or sand (called concrete sand). HPB is hard to find in some areas

[@aulivn4jc]

@@iamahardscaper ok. Yes the company I work for has lots of HPB. I will go with HPB to ensure proper drainage.

[@RodgerDodger196]

THIS IS BIG TIME HELPFUL👍

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you!

[@mattyharrisfishing7685]

I pulled and relayed a patio this year that had 6” of 3/4 clean but was laid on a 1-2” layer concrete 😂 definitely a first for me

[@iamahardscaper]

That would have definitely been a first for me as well!

[@IbelieveinJesusAmen]

Is a 48 x 32 patio too large? Would have a chimney, kitchen, fire pit…. Thx

[@iamahardscaper]

Not necessarily, especially with all of those features. Depends on the project is designed with those features in it and how many people you entertain

[@IbelieveinJesusAmen]

@@iamahardscaper thanks. What’s approx cost range materials and labor. I’m in metro Atlanta

[@iamahardscaper]

Sorry, I wouldn't know what the Atlanta market is like unfortunately. I recommend contacting a reputable company for a quote or receiving multiple quotes to be able to compare.

[@IbelieveinJesusAmen]

@@iamahardscaper thank you. Hopefully less than $25K

[@btbbelesky]

For a retaining wall project with a paver patio on top against a home would you put a drainage system in or not?

[@iamahardscaper]

It is difficult to talk about drainage without seeing it. If you are talking about a raised patio we typically always have a drainage system and build using open graded base.

[@hafeezurrahman1000]

Thanks for this video. Whats your experience with road crush as patio base or do I still need to lay the open grade angular crushed stone on top of road crush?

[@iamahardscaper]

It is fine. I still use it in some applications. You can use the 1/4” clean chip as a bedding layer on top of it. But I still prefer open grade throughout the entire base

[@TheJmenoFam]

For the soil compactor, it has to be 1000psi? All I can find here (one person handling) is 20KN or 2.9 psi.

[@iamahardscaper]

20kn is about 4500 lbs of force.

[@jamesbarger6331]

I would add one more reason that pavers fail: surrounding structures were not built correctly. One project I have worked on had a concrete patio that was failing under a raised deck that the homeowner wanted to replace with pavers. The deck foundations had been built improperly into the surrounding concrete (built with pyramid blocks you can get at Lowe's instead of 12" below frost line per local Seattle building code). Had to replace the footings before we could even get to the pavers. Almost doubled the cost of the project & they declined.

[@iamahardscaper]

Very good point!

[@michaeljmctifue]

At the 3:30 mark, I'm looking to do a 6x6 post integrated into a paver patio. Would you set the concrete footing height and the grade of the chips tone so the footing can be covered wth the pavers or would that compromise the wood post

[@michaeljmctifue]

Do you eliminate the plastic edging altogether with the concrete or do you put the plastic edging in to the Crete? Thank you

[@iamahardscaper]

That’s what we do 👍

[@iamahardscaper]

Concrete or plastic edging. Never both

[@theguyscartoon7207]

⁠@@iamahardscaperi know you have said never both (plastic edging and concrete)… but can i still put concrete on top of my plastic edging as the height of my plastic edging is a little short (barely restraining the pavers). thank you!

[@haydeneverett1990]

Excellent tips and tricks, good examples of very current industry best practices. Never forget to take massive action!

[@iamahardscaper]

😂 never forgetting! Thanks Hayden!

[@ngaitan100]

Can I ask you a question via email? Do you have an email address?

[@henrykosior]

Hi, I am going to lay patio stones [ 23 3/4"x 23 3/4"] for my patio. I have done the base of 3/4" clear stone, depth of 5- 5 1/2",compacted and sloped. For screening I am going to use high performance bedding [ HPB] 2" thick. My questions to you are: does the HPB have to be compacted before laying the patio stones and if so, how much will it be compacted? Secondly, is HPB a good choice for under patio stones? This is a raised patio at approximately 5 1/2 " above the grass, using 2x6 pressure treated wood to hold the stone and patio stones in place. This patio structure is probably going be temporary, say 4-5 years or more. Thanking you in advance for any help you can give me.

[@iamahardscaper]

Good luck with the patio! You do not need to compact the HPB. If need be you can tap them in with a mallet after you lay them

[@tinmouse1083]

A squirrel dug under my patio. Excavated a little home with access tunnel. First thing we knew was a patio block just sunk down a good 4 inches when it was stepped on. My husband fell. It was not funny. The excavated material was hidden from view under the edge of the deck. We only know it was a squirrel cos we evicted him that day. I had no idea squirrels dug underground.

[@iamahardscaper]

That is wild! I never knew that either. Hope everyone is okay. I have heard of groundhogs doing this before though.

[@breathemovebreathe]

In the middle of a small paver patio project on top of a retaining wall platform. One edge meets the natural lawn. We would like natural grass between the pavers for the end result. What is the base like for something like this?

[@iamahardscaper]

you'd probably want a dense graded base kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGjMZ2Vjm52FaZI

[@breathemovebreathe]

@@iamahardscaper thank you!

[@carmelpule8493]

This is a case of knowing that Pressure is Force per unit area so in our country we use a bed of concrete and things never move. A light woman wearing a stiletto heal would damage a marble surface but a camel or an elephant would be able to walk and not sink on soft grounds, or perhaps wearing snow shoes will not sink in the snow. Just lay the pavers on a concrete patch,

[@iamahardscaper]

👍

[@whomeverwherever]

Excellent info. What do you recommend for concrete paver sealers and natural stone (limestone) paver sealers?

[@iamahardscaper]

Oh I don’t have a good recommendation on natural stone unfortunately. Usually I use Alliance or TechniSeal but I don’t think they have a natural stone sealer.

[@whomeverwherever]

Gotcha, but they’re penetrating sealers typically and not topical, correct?

[@richardb7093]

Is using slag advised?

[@iamahardscaper]

I wouldn’t

[@richardb7093]

@@iamahardscaper why is that?

[@iamahardscaper]

I've just never seen it done with slag and would wonder if it would have adverse effects on the pavers with moisture introduced into the system

[@richardb7093]

@@iamahardscaper Founded out today why slag shouldn't be used as a base. Portions can turn into hard stone/concrete clumps that will cause serious issues such as heaving and sinking which I have plenty of! Was used extensively in the 90s according to my Hardscape professional.

[@iamahardscaper]

ah interesting! thanks for letting me know

[@drowsypigeon8114]

at 8:40, do you compact before or after activating the sand?

[@iamahardscaper]

Compact before watering polymeric sand

[@ahusainy9081]

Your videos are super helpful, Mike! Thanks for all of this! I do have a question though: I am planning a project of about 180-200 square feet for paver installation. My intention is to use paver base panels since I live in a townhome, and waste management + equipment will be a hassle without them. While setting up my subsoil, and for that matter, the layer on top of my nonwoven textile, when compacting, would I be able to use a tamper that I have? Or would it be much wiser and highly encouraged to rent an actual compacter? Thanks again for all your help and videos!

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you! Glad they help. It would be much better to rent a compactor. A hand tamper really only has a use in a tight scenario where a compactor can’t reach.

[@ahusainy9081]

I figured as much - thanks for such a quick response! You are the best!

[@CitizenTurtleIsland]

That's funny. The manufacturer's recommendations for using those "synthetic base panels" is quite different than what you are recommending. It's very confusing.

[@iamahardscaper]

What manufacturer's recommendations are you looking at?

[@CitizenTurtleIsland]

@@iamahardscaper Brock. But... I kept going through your videos and discovered the ones where you talk about this type of material specifically. I guess the only big difference is that you don't use the sand.

[@justingreene9724]

we are located in western NY and we have found concrete edging works best.

[@iamahardscaper]

Love my concrete edging 👍

[@sebastiancannavo8786]

Would stone screenings work. Between 1/4" and dust ?

[@iamahardscaper]

No, that would be stone dust, limestone screenings, screenings, it goes by a variety of names.

[@dandafjord2706]

Woven or non woven Geo textile fabric? Pavers under a small covered patio Tennessee

[@iamahardscaper]

There’s quite a few variables that come into play for that. We have a video on our channel if you search geotextile in the search box on our channel home page

[@Johnny-mu9bs]

What do you think about limestone bedding?

[@iamahardscaper]

Limestone screenings or stone dust? I don’t like it and would never use it

[@Johnny-mu9bs]

@I Am a Hardscaper I was told to put 4inches of limestone first, then 1 inch of sand on top and then the pavers. Would that be a bad idea? Supposedly the gravel seller said that limestone would get hard and keep the pavers from moving. I am new at this and just want to do a 100ft square project at my house.

[@Johnny-mu9bs]

@@iamahardscaper and I believe it is screenings.

[@iamahardscaper]

The limestone getting hard prevents water to pass through it which causes a lot of issues. Gravel pits benefit from selling limestone screenings because it is a material that is left over at the end of the cycle that instead of disposing it because it is useless, they sell to landscape suppliers. Using it also voids warranties on pavers and polymeric sand. Here is our full video on it if you want to check it out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHjHpIKZhduJeNk

[@Johnny-mu9bs]

@I Am a Hardscaper Thank you so much. I will not use the limestone. I appreciate the advice.

[@PrettyLady7282]

👍thankyou!

[@iamahardscaper]

No problem

[@Towelie4200]

What about a weed barrier?

[@iamahardscaper]

Though not necessarily a weed barrier we do use a geotextile to separate our base from our subsoil

[@Mkmike70]

6 inches Crushed concrete and 3/4 inch screenings for your pavers to lay on compacted property won go anywhere

[@iamahardscaper]

We don’t like screenings

[@Mkmike70]

@@iamahardscaper yeah everyone has their favorite method it has served me well for over 15 yrs we used mason sand for the bedding before that!! A lot has to do with the compactor you use as well if it’s not setting the paver properly with the right amount of force you’ll have issues anyway nice video take care

[@iamahardscaper]

Definitely! Than you for watching and commenting 👍

[@dchall8]

So after watching all that, I have no idea what the steps are, what material goes where, what gets compacted, or what order stuff happens.

[@iamahardscaper]

That’s not what the video is about. Perhaps you want to start with this video: How to Install Pavers | Complete Guide to Paver Patios, Walkways, and Driveways kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5KWmXZ-rsx5fpY

[@dchall8]

@@iamahardscaper Yeah, I realized that after I hit the Reply button. But every comment counts! Right?!!

[@iamahardscaper]

Absolutely!

[@donray2435]

Boom goes the dynamite

[@iamahardscaper]

💥

[@josephgroeneveld4989]

Definitely stone dust is a main factor in my area. I like how you had a tape measure to show the depth of stone dust...crazy how much is used sometimes even today by some hardscapers. I shoveled out 3 yards of it on a 120sf walkway this fall!

[@iamahardscaper]

Thank you! I actually missed the worst part on this project, the upper patio area had more than 2 feet of stone dust that we completely removed.

[@crazyhandshands9028]

Pavers fail because of of the base you need 18" of 1" crush lime stone and sand 😊 the romans built roads like this especially if you are parking a vehicle geo tech is very expensive. Your base is 1"lime stone crushed and a sand base of 3" packed remember to damep the stone and sand truth hurts .

[@iamahardscaper]

Couldn’t understand the last part of that comment but sounds good 👍

[@johnbower]

Didn't the romans had vehicles.

[@crazyhandshands9028]

@johnbower really lol 😆 😂 🤣, listen k most interlocking driveways fail because of poor base k . For a car 1" crush stone 18" wet and packed every 3" then sand damp and packed k then you can put the interlocking.

[@thomasfeltes1041]

Looks over-engineered.

[@iamahardscaper]

👍