Why Picking Ranged Position 4 Heroes is Key to Winning in Dota 2

[@goSuOtarU]

This guy makes this video and then livestreams himself playing Ember Spirit Support with Orb of Venom

[@joemarichristiansantos7926]

The duality of man

[@hkmrsrg1367]

Gotta challenge yourself with a disadvantage. 😅

[@balab1622]

Link of his video this?, sounds fun.

[@5updota]

ROOOFL don't tell them ????

[@goSuOtarU]

@@balab1622 It was his last live stream, the penultimate match of that stream. I think he was trying the facet with Fire Remnant casting Searing Chains around them, which to be fair is a cool idea. Eventually could transition into Gleipnir or something and be somewhat annoying.

[@voiavictor]

Thanks, I will listen to this while picking bounty hunter 4.

[@5updota]

🤝

[@b4sh936]

Useless to say the least

[@youllhavefunhere]

I think it is generally good advice but I think if you have a ranged carry, having an aggressive melee support can work well.

[@5updota]

The video is about position 4 not 5 ^^ Position 5 heroes that are Mele are usually not bad but that's because U can run enemy's down way easier compared to offlane and U can just sit behind ur carry. But in offlane it's different most of the offlaners in pubs see a clock on their land and just pick a mars or some random second mele hero💀

[@youllhavefunhere]

@@5updota That is a really true point. One of the worst things too is people don't say who they might even pick. Makes it hard to choose a good support.

[@5updota]

That's why just a classic range support that fits any other lane partner :D and if the pick they worst hero at least you can make a playable lane out of it 🤝

[@youtest3224]

@@5updota There always have to be a range in lane not dual melee unless its both aggressive melee which can jump on you with slows and stun. If what you said were true, why are there still MVP support melee in TI then? The iconic Jerax tiny airline

[@brom762]

@@youtest3224 because by his logic you should not play aba 4, which is a top 3 winrate pos 4 in all ranks from crusader and up.

[@b4sh936]

U r 100% correct, i learnt the hard way to pick ranged off heroes when my pos 4 picks a lane grieving mele hero, makes games so much easier (its kinda the inverse of what u said but same point)

[@luiselinvocador]

Hi! new dota player here! I almost finished my 100 hours before being allowed to play ranked games and I've been trying to find a channel like this. Great videos

[@Billionsmustreflect]

I hope it's not going to be a trend of exaggerated and unnuanced claims that also go against win rate stats on this channel

[@LkkDo-db5hz]

I gotta say I play mostly visage 3 and i can say that a melee hero that can take some hits and setup kill for me is more preferred in most scenarios. This video is correct under the context of a beefy melee offlaner being paired nicely with a ranged 4 being stronger in lane but this game is too complex for that always to be always the case. SB and DS have strong synergy with the speed burst and charge meaning their combo goes beyond simply just laning. Most of the success that game was execution

[@5updota]

The problem is that 99% of the offlaners are not picking Visage 3 or other range heroes :D So I just want people to either pre pick a range or ask their lane partner what they pick otherwise you will always have some random Mars with clock or some other 2 meles that make 0 sense

[@hedutin]

Well the ward is also good for potentially catching bara charging from base as well.

[@paulrenton824]

The analysis is good and I understand why you are trying to make a hardline rule. But, there are many exceptions to this and it is more grey. I've not always played competitive but I've been in the immortal bracket twice. I feel comfortable enough saying this but it only applies to mmr ranges where ppl. don't mentally break down if supports aren't first two picks

[@5updota]

I was also 1k MMR at some point and I have 6 Mele POS 4 heroes with 500-1000 games on each of the hero. Trust me it's just easier to play range heroes in pubs and to grind mmr^^ if you wanna pick meles go for it and enjoy it's just a tip that's it :D

[@cador1624]

Sometimes even 2 ranged hero got punished by 2 melee heroes when i try to harass them by clicking everytime he near me. Like tuskar+slardar or even pudge if i got hooked😅 how we punish melee heroes that can counter punish you if you get too close? 🤔

[@thecooljohn100]

I think the points you make are true in almost every MOBA. There are trade-offs to melee supports vs ranged supports. This is nothing new. I don't think ranged supports are one size fits all. There are trade-offs. Idk exactly how Dota does it, but usually melee champs are tankier and have more health Regen to compensate for ranged poke.

[@icata12345]

Treant used to be menace a month ago, havent seen it once since facets

[@ghalibkhan9827]

What do you think about playing as melee pos 4 when your offlaner is a ranged hero?

[@zeca1a3]

I always pick WindR if my 4 is a melee, Idgaf, I will not struggle because of my 4 pick

[@5updota]

if your offlaner is a range hero u can ofc go for a mele but overall its still easier as a range but it is ur desicion ^^

[@Judasdfg]

Great advice. I will try it but it is so tempting to spam Abbadon support. It feels so strong for how braindead it is.

[@5updota]

The video is about position 4 if your talking about abba 4 I'm confused but on position 5 abba is a fine hero for sure :D

[@MrPian0Mann]

ahh so you're the useless tree sitting, xp sapping abba pos 4 I always get when i play offlane

[@manuelmarce2544]

fr fr. I play Abaddon both as 4 and 5, but my last game as pos 4 Abaddon, it went so fucking bad, maybe I'll follow 5up's advice now.

[@thebigthn]

I've been spamming 4/5 abaddon. My shield helps me trade in either position unless they have a support with lots of disables. Then I save it for my offlane

[@lordofhtejimjimsk6556]

Yeah this is kinda terrible advice melee position 4s are usually amazing roamers and initiators plus if your offlaner is ranged like necro being an aggressive melee hero like earth can be huge for the lane and map pressure.

[@5updota]

Good luck then on your grind^^

[@paperstars9078]

but then entity picked melee support in 3 out of 4 games of the grand final and won 2 out of those 3 matches and ended up winning elite league.

[@5updota]

But we are not tier 1 Dota 👀 We are random pubs with random people you've never seen probably and they just pick their favourite heroes and offlaners are more of the beef hero enjoyers :D

[@paperstars9078]

@@5updotawe are not tier 1 Dota... yet

[@5updota]

Trueee

[@jchrstian]

How about comparing it to a kill lane?

[@5updota]

Not sure what's Ur experience with position 4 meles but most of my experience is like "I pick clock" and my teammate picks like axe lmao

[@rev9115]

​@5updota that is the selling point of melee heros right? I can always initiate fights ... die and buyback with low gold... when and how to start fights are hardest question in dota so...

[@jchrstian]

@@5updota I am a Magnus 4 main. So mostly I setup for db mars razor etc. offlanes.

[@5updota]

I mean maybe I didn't clearly said it in the video but I'm not saying Mele 4 heroes are super super grief or bad but your just giving your enemy are advantage for free. I also have an earth shaker, earth spirit and other Mele heroes with 500-1000 games but I know that if I just play range heroes only like for example the player "save" I could have a much easier time on lanes :D

[@jchrstian]

@@5updota yeah it is just easier thanks for the tips. Spamming Techies now lol.

[@ayubious]

this is very exaggerated. currently half of the top 10 most played position 4 heroes on d2pt are melee, with similar if not better winrates than their ranged counterparts, and in pubs you can usually scale/carry better too

[@5updota]

99,99% of the dota players are not top 100 and they don't have teammates that are top 100💀 I started from 1k MMR back in the day and I'm just talking about my experience that it's much easier as a range hero ^^

[@ayubious]

@@5updota this is true in across all tiers. on dotabuff/stratz, the top 10 winrate heroes this patch is still about half melee

[@MrLeva115]

Honestly this is truly only applicable inside of immortal mmr. Anything lower and this doesn’t exactly matter

[@5updota]

I've been in 1k MMR back in the day and I can say, yes it doesn't really matter in lower MMR but why would you give your enemy's an advantage for free on the lane?

[@MrLeva115]

@@5updota I agree, my whole thing is people in lower mmrs are not limited by the hero they pick. In lower mmr if you use proper spells and take proper trades and get the regen you need to sustain lane, they’ll win 9/10 times.

[@tomwilsonn]

Lol I’ve been thinking this for so long. SB 4 is great but you get way too many games where you just straight lose the lane before it even starts.

[@5updota]

Correct

[@matancohenuk]

This is silly advice. The real issue is the dark seer pick, they should have picked a ranged offlaner (WW, Phoenix) to capitalise on the SB pos 4 pick....

[@botsnkats]

What are you waffling about, darkseer + melee 4 is literally one of the best possible lane matchups for a melee 4. And it still went badly.

[@matancohenuk]

No it's really really not. We're talking about lanin stage SMH.

[@darkjellyfish4107]

Thanks but no. I just wanna have fun and not play 5d chess in a non communicative pub setting. Unless you could prove that it is statistically worse to play melee pos4, with all factors accounted for, then this video would be valid.

[@jme1mm]

5d chess is when ranged hero.

[@vorval96]

Your whole analysis is based on just ONE game in ONE tournament so the info is useless to say the least. While being ranged helps you during the laning stage, this factor becomes almost completely negligible after. Just out of curiosity, I went to look at the heroes picked at the 2023 international finals and in 2 of the 3 games Mira played the pos4 melee Tuskar support and well, they won both those games decisively.

[@5updota]

The video is an example of what can happen as a Mele hero and as a range hero. I'm not comparing anyone with tier 1 Dota. These tips are just for the random pubs that everyone plays plus I got the experience grinding from 1k MMR to 10k so I know what is going on there💀 Not sure why some people think that I'm saying Mele heroes are not playable, they are but if you wanna have a much easier time in your MMR grind and pubs then just pick range POS 4 heroes and enjoy winning lanes 🤝

[@ardentword508]

Where my pos 4 melee chads roaming and having FUN? If I want to be a glorified pos 5 then I'll pos 5 bro

[@Shoutenkou]

I'm a ~7,5K pos3 player. Melee 4 is, quite literally, a grief. Well, maybe Tuskar is an exception.

[@5updota]

It's not like a super grief but it just makes the game harder for your lane that's the thing besides the lane it is totally fine :D

[@DeSeandoto]

I'd say Tusk, Marci and Clock are the only melee 4 heroes that can have positive impact in lane, if the players knows how to play them

[@cleric4933]

This video has low aura.

[@5updota]

Explain