Why Pop Music is Dying

[@CDN1084]

This made me sad for the world. Not being able to share cultural moments together is such a huge loss for everyone.

[@jonnyharvey]

It could be a while before we get to that point but it’s certainly heading in that direction

[@AmoMe2009]

It’s quite depressing especially when Jonny Harvey said how when we were bored back then we would use our imagination and tools around us and now today’s society has the apps at the finger-tips to pass the time. 🤯😣

[@rebymunster]

Yes! This messaging on the video caused me to reflect on how much access to tech my own kid has. Us parents need to keep them bored as long as we can 😅 it’ll do them good!

[@authentictalkpodcast]

humanity had a good run...don't be sad it's over... be happy that it happened.

[@lordsxman]

Pivotal cultural moments are still happening in music. Last year Beyonce's Renaissance album made a huge impact on black ball room audiences. Also, this year Taylor Swift's Eras tour has been so huge she's been dubbed "Queen of the White Women."

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

Around 2016, I started to find the music become insufferable to listen to. There were a few tracks here and there, but the genre was shifting from upbeat to minimal and monotone. It was like after 2016 everybody stopped trying. With today’s pop, there’s about one, two, maybe three tracks that I’ll like and the rest I don’t ever want to listen to to ever again. Everybody got this #quirky or #relatable vibe to themselves now, but they come off as either try - hard, boring, or forgettable. Toothless and faceless.

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

I’ve, also, been having a hard time finding music that stuck with me after about two weeks or a month. Anytime I listened to something, I would like it for about a few weeks to a month before it grew down on me.

[@AmoMe2009]

@@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125 I agree. I can’t stand the quirky acts or the monotone music. I think I’m just getting old. I’ll leave tiktok and these new artists to these youth. They can have it. I haven’t enjoyed pop at all since 2008, anyway.

[@Dfranco4ever]

So agreed with you but from 2012 I think my last album was 2011

[@yomama9114]

Pop music for me has been insufferable since 2013. It got REALLY bad 2015-2018 with a few exceptions. Pop music has gotten a bit better, but it’s still pretty soulless.

[@jalapeno1119]

Well, art is usually a reflection of society's current state of affairs.

[@prophet1196]

The problem why pop is declining is that we have less creative individuals in the music field so they often cop on making music that is with the “trend” but the problem of our generation is that there is too many trends happening all at once so we don’t have a trend that which will be the blueprint of the 2020s, like they did with the 90s sounds etc etc…A lot of bedroom producers are immensely lazy when producing groundbreaking beats because now we have music software we became more lazy and using less of of them creative mindset. So artists now rely on scandals instead of the song being a hit and being promoted etc

[@ncamara670]

'Artists now rely on scandals instead of a song being a hit'. THIS

[@jonnyharvey]

Interesting take. Thanks. The fragmentation of the media facilitates all these different styles & trends so there won’t be one or two dominant ones anymore. Very true

[@NJGuy1973]

@@jonnyharvey As "Todd In The Shadows" put it, songs don't matter to the extent that they're played anymore. They matter to the extent that they get talked about.

[@orlock20]

The creativity is there, but it takes a lot of money to make somebody a superstar. When Beyonce was most popular, $3 million per album and $1 million per single was spent on promotion. Even current Beyonce couldn't recover that much money now.

[@NJGuy1973]

​@@ncamara670People don't pay for music like they used to, so music can only matter in a sociological sense.

[@phillinsogood]

The various award shows like the Grammys, VMAS, Billboard, American Music Awards, BET etc are proof that the death of pop music is among us.

[@jonnyharvey]

Well that is true. Award shows are really struggling with viewing figures

[@theend9494]

I am a muso have a little home studio I was doing some research on a new keyboard and the sites I went were just beat makers 100's of them all sounding the same crap, but what did stand out was these guys were amazing piano players, but were producing throw away beat based crap for zombies

[@clydekimsey7503]

​@theend9494 what's a muso?

[@mctielpresidente]

​@@clydekimsey7503 My guess is "musician".

[@AntifaBucharest]

AMOGUS

[@coursecorrection4105]

Going back, artists had to spend years performing, not just studying music, to make it. They played in clubs, and local areas for years honing their craft. MJ was performing in night clubs in Chicago, NYC, Detroit and elsewhere before he was signed to Motown. Madonna performed in NYC club scene. Even Britney spent years performing in the Mickey Mouse club. They had to actually perform before becoming a big recording store. This was important to uplift people with star power and to hone skillls, audience awareness etc. there’s not an active club scene to allow people to work out their talent for no cost at the club level. We need to bring back performance spaces

[@jonnyharvey]

yes that grassroots performing was so important in building up their stage craft.

[@Anderson_LS]

You can find thousands of talented artists on KZbin with millions of subscribers and hundreds of thousands of views. Instead of playing in clubs, artists are now growing up here on KZbin. Some have had their channels for 10+ years and you can watch how they grow up.

[@oogskskfn]

@@Anderson_LSbut that doesn’t translate to the music business where money comes from live performance.

[@txwtw]

@@oogskskfn EXACTLY

[@Ruinwyn]

I think one problem is that a lot of labels are ignoring the adult demographic entirely. Yes, the big push in new stars is always the youth, but for act to really become a big star, they also need the adults. Adults are the ones that actually pay money and but also require the music to stand on its own. They are also happy to keep supporting their old favourites if no-one new comes along. Nirvana, Backstreet Boys, Lady Gaga, all had also lot of support from 30+ year olds.

[@ncamara670]

Great point. They somehow overlook that the generation Z has a lot smaller spending power than those who were in their 20s a decade ago.

[@jonnyharvey]

This is a great point. Very true. Not all music consumers are obsessed with Tik-Tok. Where are the more mature adult contemporary artists?

[@dhenderson1810]

I have a theory which is backed up with research. Youth are always the target demographic because they are more naive and gullible, so can be manipulated more easily. They also are often frivolous with money, and will spend to keep up with trends. Adults are more discerning, less gullible and will buy something once, and then buy it again for a long time, as they buy for need or if they can afford it. Kids will constantly buy new things, because they aren't spending their own money, and want the latest sneakers, clothes, music, whatever to be cool and fit into their peer group, and since they are also fickle, they change fads every other week, so spend much more. Advertisers love young people, because they get a lot of return customers and people more suspectible to their BS, whereas adults see through advertisers and promoters, and know what they are really about. Throughout history this has happened. Cults, political parties, even social media bombard the youth, because they are easier to deceive and less questioning.

[@ncamara670]

@@dhenderson1810 While that is valid, times are also changing. There have been many controversies around social networks, particularly TikTok. In some countries with huge markets it got banned and there are plans to have it more regulated, particularly to protect kids. So, they may find themselves in a tricky place in a few years.

[@gnu_andrew]

Yes. When I was a kid, the charts would have stuff that was clearly popular with the teens, but also rave music from the clubbers in their 20s, ballads for the grannies and the Teletubbies for the little ones. It was diverse because pretty much everyone was represented. Now it all happens in its own little self-consuming bubble of Spotify & TikTok where only those who spend time on these platforms (mostly Gen Z) are aware of what's going on there. Older generations, and those in Gen Z who aren't interested, can quite easily just ignore the whole thing these days. Back in the 90s, even my dad who has never been into music knew who the Spice Girls were. It would be interesting to do a survey of the 40+ demographic these days and see how many artists established from 2010 on they know.

[@yomama9114]

I watched the VMAs last night and I didn’t care about anybody there. The music was mid. I hadn’t heard of a lot of the artists or their music. It was very bland, down to the winners of the categories. Pop music died in 2013.

[@JLX1373]

you can just say it's "bad" - "mid" doesn't mean bad. it means it's just neutral. if you're saying pop music died in 2013 then just say it's bad

[@yomama9114]

@@JLX1373 ok it’s bad

[@manuelsaldivar01]

From what I saw the only performance that was decent was Shakira, I didn’t care for the others 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@yomama9114]

@@manuelsaldivar01 it was phenomenal but she lip synced the whole time + she did the exact same soundtrack from her half time show at one point :/

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

You sound like a bitter person absorbed by Nostalgia. It was actually good. Y’all are so absorbed by nostalgia that y’all miss moments right in front of you.

[@iAmElectroPopTart]

I knew iconic pop was in trouble when I realized there is no “pop girl of the moment” a few years ago. Every pop star is is an elder now.

[@jonnyharvey]

thank you - everyone seems to have completely missed that point! Taylor has been around for 15 yrs. Beyonce is an old timer- she started 25 yrs ago.

[@orlock20]

Angelina Jordan is in development. Her audience is probably greying though.

[@dennisgonzalez7962]

​@@orlock20who?

[@orlock20]

@@dennisgonzalez7962 She is an Amy Winehouse type of singer without the drugs. She has millions of views on KZbin. Her original song has 3.3 million views on KZbin in 6 months. She is 17 years-old.

[@joshevanoni1193]

Tyla is the new pop gir

[@Droorogers]

I despise TikTok with every inch of my tired, aching 37 year old body.

[@jonnyharvey]

I'm the same age- I really like it (but not what it is doing to the music industry). I love the comedy and cat and dog videos.

[@PrincessPowerranger]

My 34 year old tired self also never really got it to it, but hey each to their own😅❤

[@fruityloops2073]

my tired aching 34 year old body can't even bothersome to watch a single episode of a show on television.

[@paulanerruhrpott6188]

Tik Tok is Skynet in Disguise. It will eventually lead to our doom!

[@viajandocasigratis]

@@fruityloops2073my 38 year old body finds tiktok addicting and disgusting at the same time 😮

[@davidbrixton6955]

There once was a level of mystery and mystique surrounding artists 🎨 but people these days want to reveal everything all at once 😂😅😂

[@jonnyharvey]

That’s apparently what people want these days. Really accessible stars

[@intrstxllr]

people want relatability and accesebility now

[@ncamara670]

​@@jonnyharveyA lot of those who made themselves accessible came to regret it afterwards. Stan fandoms, stalking, mental health concerns, the list goes on.

[@TheTDA]

Powerful point

[@laurabianca-pruett]

Honestly, I think that artists being more transparent about fame has made it less appealing. For example, Taylor Swift is “too big to hang out” and that sounds like hell to me. She can’t go to her producer’s wedding without thousands of people showing up in the hopes that they get to see her in person for two seconds.

[@filipepatriani9218]

I can't be the only one who got a little sad by this video. Times are certainly changing! I'm 34 and I had so much fun with music when I was a young kid (singing in the church choir, taking piano lessons and having a blast messing with synthesizers). I really hope creativity in general does not go away for the newer generations.

[@jonnyharvey]

yeah creativity is the lifeblood of the industry. I hope younger kids will still get involved in music.

[@brandonbates9259]

Yep and it's tearin up my heart

[@dominiquepowell3158]

Ikr but hopefully it doesn't dies.

[@Lamarization]

Dang first people were saying RnB is dead, then Hip hop now pop music? The industry needs to get it together

[@jonnyharvey]

it's a very different world and media landscape. Everything must change

[@phillinsogood]

Mainstream music and artist have gotten so boring and forgettable over the years.

[@Lamarization]

@@jonnyharvey I agree! I think it also has a lot with the industry choosing people with “clout” rather than actual talented people who’s hungry to innovate music.

[@Lamarization]

@@phillinsogood I agree! People in the past were super talented and HUNGRY for the game. Now & day artist are lazy asf and would rather go viral than make a good hit!

[@Lamarization]

@@jonnyharvey also artist personal life gets more attention than their actual music. In the 90s and prior they didn’t have any social media. Now & days I feel like people are more jealous and takes it out on the celebs

[@728huey]

Pop music will never die! But it does go through phases where it becomes huge and others where other genres eclipse it (acid/hippie rock in the late 1960's, disco and punk in the late 1970's, grunge and gangsta rap in the early and mid-1990's, trap music in 2016 thru 2021). Much of that is due to artist development, and right now the major record labels are extremely lazy in developing artists, instead going to buy catalog music to make a money grab. Right now Gen-Z needs its own wave of artists to represent their generation, just as Millennials had Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry in the 2010's, and the Backstreet Boys, "Nsync, and Britney Spears in the 2000's, Gex-X had Mariah Carey, Garth Brooks, Nirvana, and Tupac in the 1990's, and Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, Duran Duran, and U2 in the 1980's.

[@unorthodox4871]

I agree for the most part but I think you mean Gen-Z in later years as I am Gen-Z (born in 2002) and grew up listening to those artists you mentioned on the radio

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

How did you forget Whitney?💀

[@728huey]

@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 Sorry, I didn't forget her per se, but I was trying to make a point about generational waves of music without trying to write a novel.

[@jonnyharvey]

I should have said in the video, when I said pop music, I meant all popular music. So that encompasses all different genres that are popular in the mainstream. It's not just pure pop that is in decline in the industry, it's popular music in general. Where is the Coldplay/Oasis/Artic Monkeys/Kings of Leon/Eminem/Nirvana/Adele/Beck etc etc for this generation? Back in the 90s the music scene was so exciting, there were new up and coming artists all the time. Today's industry has a huge shortage of talent in comparison.

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

@@unorthodox4871 Same. I grew up seeing Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, and Katy Perry grow into the stars we see today and I’m 22. It wasn’t just millennials who saw them blossom; there were a lot of us.

[@aamyko]

While there’s no denying TikTok’s power over music & making songs go viral;sometimes you have HUGE people on the platform like Addison Rae who has millions of followers & she’s tried to make her music moment happen but so far she really hasn’t had a hit. It’s harder now to be a full fledged pop star cos there’s just so much at everyone’s disposal but when there’s TRUE creativity & talent in an artist those are things that no one can deny & eventually the world will know who they are, regardless of if they are on TikTok or not.

[@jonnyharvey]

I've read about her, I will have to look her up.

[@cowgirltheworld]

Addison actually has a lot of charisma as a pop singer that I didn't expect😭😭

[@alarrim29574]

@@cowgirltheworldto bad she can’t sing or write good

[@stephintheatre6335]

I think KZbin have more power than Tik tok, some people have become big stars because of youtube.

[@kekwayblaze3176]

Yet somehow Taylor Swift is selling out arenas and stadiums playing pop music. There is a way to be successful as a pop artist. Then there is Adele who sells unbelievable numbers of units in the age where that is so difficult to do. Another example of how pop music artists can still be successful.

[@PianoHits]

i had a realisation - we are likely never going back either, imagine for example a big hit like Can't Get You Out Of My Head an exitinct song ? Or not knowing who Madonna was, sounds so strange to us but Generation Alpha are headed to be the most different thinking generation due to the technology culture shifts happening. They don't carry on the same pop culture torches that tied previous generations together. Johnny i think this topic would be a very interesting to cover at some point too because the culture shift of popular is plays a massive role by teens. I hope you Johnny or someone out there making videos on moments of pop culture will captivate them to times they didnt experience

[@jonnyharvey]

thanks for that. Yes teenagers are key to the creation of popular culture. How technology has changed pop culture would be an interesting topic.

[@jamesbarker2567]

Yeah I Just Fckign Hate This World And Matrix We,re In Today. Society. I Have Been Born 1991 In The Wrong Gnerartion For Some Reason????? And I have No Idea Yet What We Are Going To About It???????

[@W81Researcher]

Gen Z and Alpha need their own music because they need to.leave the old stuff the hell alone.

[@jakepark3272]

Kylie Minogue is one of the last few pop superstars who is still making genuine pop music.

[@dojmir]

YUP

[@trackmasters65]

...Madonna?

[@flazeda8743]

Gaga, Kylie and Madonna all still do imo.

[@boymickeyboy]

Kylie never was a superstar. Just Madonna, Whitney & MJ

[@dojmir]

y’all sound slow in the replies LMFAO is madonna coming out with an album with top 20 hit singles right now? no kylie minogue is

[@Texaslawhorn]

1982 baby here. Class of 2001. Pop was so fun in the '80s, '90s and up until the early 2010s. Vh1, MTV, TRL... I'm glad I was born when I was.

[@lonellfletcher]

Same. ‘85 baby and our generation was among the most exciting periods of music ever!!!!

[@rachellejones6254]

Agree. 90s kid. So different when the 21st century began…

[@jonnyharvey]

Agree

[@RihannaChristina]

I’m jealous

[@Willie_Wahzoo]

We got the last hoorah of non "computer music." By the early 2000s, vocal tuning was becoming commonplace. Time-stretching and manipulating audio on computers also became common. I really appreciated the grunge scene, of course Nirvana, but also Soundgarden, Bush, Stone Temple Pilots, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam and other bands like Oasis, Third Eye Blind, Tom Petty, Goo Goo Dolls, Counting Crows and the like.

[@frankrodriguez9081]

I truly miss Michael Jackson, Lady Gaga, Tina Turner

[@flazeda8743]

Yeah Gaga's busy with Joker 2 and her make up line but I hope she'll go back to pop soon, her tour last year was incredible!

[@Sapphire901]

@@flazeda8743 Gaga just released music with The Rolling Stones and Stevie Wonder 🎉❤

[@flazeda8743]

@@Sapphire901 And the song's amazing imo! 😁 What surprised me is folks saying they're surprised she can do it well with the stones just like when some were shocked by the Bennett collab... When will they stop underestimate her? 😅

[@TyeArtisik]

I miss MJ 😢

[@maccagrabme]

Can't honestly say I've ever heard a gaga track as I had her down as illuminati, corporate controlled fake music but will have a listen. She can't possibly compare with Stevie Wonder or MJ.

[@trackmasters65]

As someone who grew up in the 90s, seeing the disappearance of cultural touchstones is a bit sad, it was fun and exciting to have a shared cultural experience around a singer or a band. But music isn't just a social thing, it can be very personal and intimate. Social media is just one step. The next step will be the complete disappearance of musical artists who will be replaced by AI. Everyone will simply be able to generate endless songs and request changes to their songs via an AI that will be able to generate music in any genre.

[@jonnyharvey]

oh god, I don't like the sound of that.

[@truthh8597]

To be really frank I think AI will lead to mass suicides among artists if ai is not regulated

[@karlitosway7474]

Don’t give AI too much credit. It may be able to automate essential tasks for humans but human creativity will always win.

[@John-ct9zs]

The Super Bowl half time show is still a thing, and probably always will be. So that's there. As are other sporting events. They could even have pop stars do a half time show for NBA Finals games, it would be weird, but it would bring back those cultural moments like a Britney Spears or NSYNC video in the late 90s/early 2000s, Nirvana playing on SNL in 1992, or Michael Jackson and Madonna having breakthrough moments around 1983.

[@karlitosway7474]

@Luke5100 the thing is consumers might not react as expected. I’ve heard good AI songs but not good enough for me to willingly seek it out for listening. Humans always crave authentic creativity at some point. Ever mainstream trend that overstays its welcome eventually hits a wall (take disco for example)

[@homyce]

I am 47 years old, so I am probably ancient compared to people watching this video, and while my favorite music era is probably the 90s and early 2000s, I was genuinely able to enjoy new music and find a lot to listen to all the way up to around 2016 when things started to get real bad. I thought it was probably my age, but then I started to notice that everyone was saying the same!

[@ColinsCity]

It wasn't your age, i started noticing the decline around 2014/2015 and i had started to ignore music being released because it was all starting to follow a very similar american style, i was actually surprised when the Disco trend picked up and started to bring more variety to music, i think it was great for breaking the shackles that the american labels had started imposing on artists.

[@ncamara670]

It definitely wasn't the age. In 2015 I went to a concert of one of the artists I liked, who went to pop after doing indie. I wasn't aware of that, it was a spur of the moment decision to go. I was truly disappointed, everything was so tacky, including the visual presentation. I was not enjoying it much. There were maybe two songs I liked. Nowadays, you really have to dig to find something. Recently, I found a Spanish EP by Selena Gomez, which is finally (!) the type of music I like.

[@jeremy_woods]

I'm close. 44 years old. 80's and 90's - def the 90's for me. So much was changing that decade. Best rock, best pop, best rap, it seemed like something great was always coming out. If i had to pinpoint it to any singular thing that devalued music - it'd be the smart phone but more specifically social media.

[@sarizonana]

​@@jeremy_woodsim in late 30s and music for me started to get really almost unlisteable since late 2010s. 2018 to be specific

[@nicholashylton6857]

Another Gen-Xer here. I noticed the shift into mediocrity around that time too.

[@RhapsodyHC]

Pop is truly on the decline. The only new and true pop star with a lot of star power is Dua Lipa. Olivia Rodrigo, Doja Cat, and Billie Eillish are pop too, but incorporate other genres in their music. Other new pop stars with potential like Ava Max, Bebe Rexha, etc remain underrated. And no one has reached the heights of Britney Spears, Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc. I wonder how the industry and culture will adapt.

[@jonnyharvey]

The Billboard article mentioned that record executives intend on signing more mid-sized artists to make up for the shortfall created by the lack of superstars.

[@melisagalvalizi6982]

lady gaga is more thana pop star, and more versatile than the ones you mentioned

[@dianasaetern]

Taylor Swift ❤

[@johngablesmith4671]

Cardi B is also pop. She’s successful.

[@o.9428]

@@dianasaetern doesn't count. She's like folksy country music.

[@zafnatpaneaj4992]

After watching your video I feel very lucky of living at the same time as the greatest artists were born, such as: Madonna, Michael Jackson, George Michael, Boy George, Cyndi Lauper, Whitney Houston and only few more. Especially from the 80s and 90s. I must say that "Music" is dying unfortunatelly. Great job Jonny...! Greetings from Buenos Aires

[@jonnyharvey]

Cheer - thank you 🤞

[@rafaelsmith5737]

@@jonnyharvey 9:21 Are you aware that BTS isn't mainstream nor are they a Kpop band to begin with?

[@rafaelsmith5737]

@@jonnyharvey 9:40 Of course BTS wouldn't be on the charts, half of them are on military right now so they no longer release music as a group.

[@rafaelsmith5737]

@@jonnyharvey Honestly, I think you have huge misconception of what BTS is, and what's going on between BTS and the music industry. I bet you just think they're just a famous KPOP band who release generic pop songs that was formed by a big label with someone with huge money and then get supported by the Kpop Industry and Western Music Industry, which is they're big globally like One Direction, but just like 1D, they're hype is slowly disappearing. Little girls are no longer interested in them since they're getting old and there's now a lot of newer Kpop bands that can replace BTS like Stray Kids and New Jeans. If I didn't knew any better I would have believed this too. The music industry are actually quite lucky, the media has been downplaying BTS, Spotify filtering their streams in half, KZbin deleting millions of their views, then not giving them radio spins, deleting 90% of their sales so it won't be counted by Billboard. And that's just the beginning, there's a lot more going on behind the scenes. Anyways, that doesn't matter. BTS to begin with aren't Pop nor part of Kpop, nor do their fans compromise of Kpop fans and teenage girls. If it weren't for those misconceptions, BTS could have been way bigger.

[@augustoantonioaguila99]

I love this video!!! Many of the music today don’t have any melody.

[@bobloblaw6311]

It's too bad we will never have the big pop superstars like Janet Jackson or Madonna come up and slay the game. Like Jonny mentioned, sure there's Olivia Rodrigo, Billie Eilish, and Doja Cat, but I'm sorry they don't hit like Madonna did on her Like a Virgin era or Janet in her Rhythm Nation era. Nor will they likely have longevity beyond a decade like the popstars of previous decades had. I think Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift and Katy Perry (to a lesser degree), artists from the tail end of the 00s and through the 2010s, are likely the last pop megastars of our time. The rest will probably become popular, have some songs bounce around, have a couple successful tours, and fizzle out. I'm sorry, but Gen Z's music is such a yawn 🥱 No risk taking. Just regurgitated, reductive rinse repeat blandness. It's sad because art is so important to society and to a generation. It inspires so much more than just fun nights out with your friends. I feel sorry for them. I'm glad they at least have decades and decades of back catalog music to hopefully inspire them.

[@AmoMe2009]

I love the “fun nights out with friends” part. Absolutely agree. Microwavable nonsense over golden longevity.

[@jonnyharvey]

It's just a very different world now. Music has infinite entertainment and information options to compete with, it never had before.

[@diegidiego5617]

ugh, i love katy perry

[@cowgirltheworld]

people who say this are usually the same people who stopped listening to new music in their late 20s and only listen to the modern music that charts. how can someone say creativity in pop is dying when you have artists like kelela, Caroline polachek, Charli xcx and so on.. it's s strange to me

[@Yeaster]

​@cowgirltheworld Kelela is so good. Yeah, there's good music being released all the time, but you have to look for it I do see the OP's point though, how Lady Gaga feels like the last pop sensation of her kind

[@AmoMe2009]

I know pop music is not always taken as seriously as other genres but no one can deny that pop music was definitely at it’s pure fun and diverse peak in the 80, 90’s and 00s. The 00s definitely had a great subgenre alone of Spanish pop like J.Lo, Ricky Martin, Marc Anthony, Shakira, etc as well as punk rock/pop punk like Good Charlotte, Blink-182, etc. MTV back then was very fair and played music from Ashlee Simpson and Lindsay Lohan as much as they played Hilary Duff and Avril Lavigne. Bubblegum pop between 1998-2001 was the all-time best and even the ones who were not as successful as the big Jive artists like Britney, Nsync and Backstreet still had major, major talent who’s music and lyrics speaks for itself like Christina, Mandy, Jessica Simpson, etc. At that time acts like O-Town and 98 degrees were influenced by and trained to emulate the greats like Boys II Men and New Edition. Even overseas superstars like S Club 7 and A*Teens were pop opulence. Pop albums back then were worth purchasing and the simple and choreography music videos were epic!!! Life before tiktok, the current pop acts and reality tv is not the same, in my opinion, at ALL. Quirkiness and gimmicks is just not my thing.

[@rebymunster]

MTV wasn’t airing any black artists until they were called out for it so they weren’t necessarily fair but I see what you’re saying about those artists specifically.

[@jonnyharvey]

It's nowhere near as diverse. There isn't anywhere near as many singers and bands coming though

[@ncamara670]

I came across a video by The Corrs the other day. Such good vibes! Most people in the comments expressed nostalgia about this type of music. I have several albums.❤

[@AmoMe2009]

@@ncamara670 love Breathless and Summer Sunshine. That’s when VH1 used to play music videos too. I remember watching bands like that on VH1. Times really have changed.

[@pantherseye]

Lumping Christina in with Mandy and Jessica is wild! 😳

[@IndigoEnchantress]

"people miss singing, it's time to bring singing back" -Whitney Houston

[@jonnyharvey]

Amen Whitney

[@Sttephy30]

There's many great singers today, but you guys don't support their music.

[@pelayo341]

no. ariana can sing, she still has meh music, cannot dance, doesnt have style. i prefer a britney that lipsyncs but puts on a show that we are in desperate need of, over a vocalist any day

[@eddieg6436]

The 1980’s music was best. Duran Duran, Madonna, Depeche Mode, The Cure, Dead or Alive, Michael Jackson, Prince, Janet Jackson, The Smiths, ……….NOTHING can touch them!!!

[@jonnyharvey]

yeah I agree with this. 80s and the 90s. How things have changed.

[@zijun01]

I think one of the main differences is that during the 1980s, you also had fringe acts ranging from Laurie Anderson (avant-garde) to George Thorogood (blues rock) on major labels and getting some exposure on FM radio, MTV and network TV. Similarly, a lot of the artists you just mentioned weren't really in the mainstream until the broke through (after getting exposure). For example, I first heard Madonna on an indie campus radio. There are still a lot of musicians doing interesting things, but most of them get stuck at the up-and-coming-indie-artist phase and never get the exposure that would allow them to enjoy a 'Depeche Mode' level of success.

[@maccagrabme]

50s, 60s, 70s can but most people here probably haven't heard much of it to be able to know. Modern Pop music has been destroyed, it's completely unlistenable now.

[@HimeNoKuri]

Darn straight!

[@stephintheatre6335]

Dont forget 70s disco so creative and very addictave to listen to, Michael Jackson, Bee Gees Donna Summer KC and the Sunshine Band Sister Sledge so many good artist.

[@Clinty727]

It’s not dying….people are nostalgic for it, but US artist aren’t making it. So people are turning to K-POP to get their fix, K-POP artist also go through years as a trainee.

[@Patrick3183]

K pop is a slavery industry

[@karisima6060]

K-POP hasn’t sounded good since 2018.

[@mary-w7j1g]

But kpop has no longevity and is unmemorable. Their ghostwriters and producers are Americans hence looks all manufactured. It hasn't been able to grow, only occupying 2% of the world's music market. Also it's only relatable to teenagers who end up out growing it .

[@karisima6060]

@@mary-w7j1g Exactly. I was a hardcore KPOP fan from the ages of 14-17, but i grew out of it quickly because it got repetitive and ultimately no longer sounds good. There’s a few older KPOP songs I like to listen to though.

[@d3ly746]

you're better off mentioning jpop than something like kpop that only relies on western producers

[@PrincessPowerranger]

I remember being a kid and hearing someone say in the future everyone will have their moment of fame, i remember not knowing how this could be possible. Now i know, we live in area where it feels like everyone goes viral at some point

[@jonnyharvey]

it pretty much has come true.

[@mainsmain]

Andy Warhol

[@Cindybabe99]

"In the future, everyone will have their 15 minutes of fame". - Andy Warhol

[@ickimadrasi8965]

Pop music has been dead for about ten years on, computer and lazy producers killed the music. When was the last time that you have heard any real drum on bass on any pop song, it is pure artifice

[@jonnyharvey]

Does anyone not use live instruments anymore?

[@djgamecx9489]

Computer based production is not inherently bad but it has to be done RIGHT. The Weeknd is a great example of the correct way to do this. He uses computers to essentially create new instruments. Using his voice and running it through loopers, flangers, and arpeggiators to make new sounds, taking samples and retextualizing them into something completely different, layering various synths with these unique sounds, working with other producers for varied sound, etc. The WRONG way to do it is the way 90% of pop music seems to be doing it right now. Take famous song, shift tempo and pitch a bit, add instruments to change the genre (sometimes), and add lyrics. (examples of this include Memories by Maroon 5, I'm Good by David Guetta ft Bebe Rexha, and STAYING ALIVE by DJ Khaled ft Drake and Lil Baby)

[@djgamecx9489]

granted, this point really only works if one intends on being a solo artist, it does NOT work if you're trying to do the work that's traditional of a band by yourself (if you're gonna do that, learn a bunch of instruments, record them, and mix it yourself)

[@theahulkushwah]

Lana Del Rey regularly uses live instrumentation but she is an alternative artist not pop.

[@markkilley2683]

This debate has been going on since the 80's A lot of great songs ere done by electronics/synths.

[@quentinbringthenumetalchil5125]

This my two cents, but the 00s all the way to the early ‘10s was where pop music was at its peak commercially (in my eyes). There were some superstars, catchy tracks, and memorable hooks. I used to be on the radio a lot back when I was in elementary school in the late ‘00s, early ‘10s era. Sure, there were stinkers, but there was, also, some good, fine quality pop music that I still easily go back to. Heck, I even go into popular albums from back in the day to try and find some deep cuts.

[@atlantidaunderground]

the only good thing about the 00s was Britney, Christina Aguilera, Beyonce (who actually debuted in the late 90s) and Lady Gaga... not a huge Avril fan but think she brought us female pop punk which paved the way for the emo scene which was popular in the 00s. As I remember it, the 00s were mainly dominated by rap (Eminem, 50 Cent, etc).

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

@@atlantidaundergroundRihanna (Usher?) also was really the only good thing about the 2000s music scene. At least in terms of popular music. The 2010s made more superstars than in the 2000s

[@atlantidaunderground]

oh yeah I forgot about Rihanna. 2010s? Like who?compared to other decades 00s were a bit weaker in terms of music. I remember it was all rap and rnb on the radio and mtv until Lady Gaga came along. @@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024

[@Anonymous-sm9ld]

Yeah until 2016 came along, idk what happened there

[@robertsteinberger5667]

Yes and around 2016 it went in the wrong direction

[@magiclover9346]

Listening to full albums and being a musician myself has brought me so much joy that it saddens me that my generation (MTV generation) will be the last to love the craft. The bliss of finally nailing that passage you've dedicated hours to practising in front of a crowd of people is something else.

[@jonnyharvey]

Yes it’s such a shame. But gen-zers (for the most part) are used to instant gratification & everything on demand ☹️

[@elokin300]

@@jonnyharvey Honestly I don’t typically listen to full albums because I find my music from other people (mostly when someone makes an animatic/animation using the song since I spend a lot of time in art communities) but I have had a few bands where I got _really_ into their music and listened to full albums, and it was really gratifying!

[@DrewRueDoo]

It will make its comeback. The recent pop stars are just so lazy compare to the iconic ones such as Madonna, Britney, Lady Gaga, Beyoncé, etc.

[@jonnyharvey]

very true.

[@ralphangel561]

Janet Jackson. Stop disrespecting her

[@samson7842]

It takes genuine A&R talent to make superstars. Labels, now, don’t find new talent and develop it from nothing. Remember, Prince’s first album was pretty much a flop by today’s standards. It took him 6 albums to reach his Purple Rain status. No label is going to do that, anymore.

[@jonnyharvey]

Artists aren’t allowed to develop like that anymore. Record labels want musicians who are fully developed right from the start

[@JericoJopio]

Honestly, it's no wonder why most pop artists from the 80's, 90's and the years from 2000-2015 remain iconic and viral even after their heyday. Their creativity and musical talent, in addition to publicity, helped them earn their place in the pop music industry; unfortunately, the advent of AI and easy-to-use music softwares meant that music production could be done without considering the talent of the musicians and the technical aspects of music composition and promotion. Also, music labels find it hard to promote music creations owing to a number of artists who can now produce and promote their music independently through TikTok and other platforms.

[@jonnyharvey]

yes the industry has far less power and influence now and monoculture is dissolving so the artists don't seem to make the same effort with their visual output. And there's just less talent coming through

[@lordsxman]

Since the advent of social media, local radio and MTV have lost their gatekeeping power. Also I'm in my 40's so 95% of the music I listen to is "catalog." People my age love listening to 80's and 90's music cuz that's when we were youths. As you said there are so many more opions now people just don't have the attention span to keep up with the latest music every week. I know I don't.

[@jonnyharvey]

yes listening to the latest music is far less important

[@laurabianca-pruett]

People have always been listening to catalog music. The difference now is that with streaming the record companies can now track which songs people are actually listening to. Before, they could only track what was purchased new, and that was a one time thing.

[@marcusmiro7481]

Pop music isn't dying. Music is going through a revolution. I do agree the "big shared cultural moment" thing is going away, but pop music is going through a HUGE revolution that is ultimately the best thing possible for musical quality. It just isn't friendly with monoculture, which most of us older people are used to. Things will be fine tbh. That said, I do think the world is slowly and painfully collapsing, but that's just because those of us alive right now happen to be alive at an awkward time: We're on the downslope of the benefits of capitalism. All of the world's craziness is just a reflection of late stage capitalism.

[@MegzLife]

yess i agree!! i doubt pop is dying as his title said, lol..but yeah it definitely going thru a moment or whatnot, aswel as other genres etc. Its just the times we live in now & with technology/social media..

[@cowgirltheworld]

I think pop music is starting to become more.. segregated? if that makes sense

[@AnnaliseQuentin]

People are just not ready to accept the evolution and diversity. A single artist doesn't necessarily have to be at the top- we can have different artists having their moments here and there. At last, some will stay, some will not.

[@TimiTamminen]

Well said. As someone who grew up outside of the traditional anglosphere, I got to hear both massively popular english-speaking popstars & all sorts of great artistry of my native country that would never get any attention outside of its sphere of influence because of the language barrier & the lacking power/connections that are required to be noticed by the gatekeepers. Maybe it’s a European thing (since we have so many different languages & cultures concentrated within a continent) but I’ve always been incredibly frustrated by how much great music goes totally unheard & considered simply due to the barriers of language & business connections. Once in a blue moon, you’d get an exception to the rule that would be inspiring to witness, an artist singing in their native language & representing their native culture while simultaneously getting worldwide attention, but most of the time the unwritten rule has been that english-speaking artists from the anglosphere are the only artists to achieve worldwide fame & consideration for their musical greatness. Because of this, I’ve slowly grown to accept the gradual death of the monoculture because it was always an incredibly small, privileged group of people who got to participate in it in the first place. This doesn’t take away from the talents & the genius of many of these artists who did become worldwide icons (I’m a massive pophead myself) but it’s simply to acknowledge that even our most beloved pop stars have been marketed as products & that there is a lot more than just artistry/talent involved to make an artist break globally, namely the power of the elite executives & business people. As you aptly mentioned at the end, the gradual shift of this is a sign of the late stage capitalism at work: as the privileged few who were able to rise to the top have slowly accumulated all the power & the resources available, the rest are left fighting for crumbs in a world where there’s increasingly more competition. Internet has gradually shifted this attention away from the anglosphere’s pop dominance to the whole world, allowing anyone with a camera & an internet connection to join the crowd in search of fame & glory as well as allowing people from the other parts of the world to gain access to information that was previously unavailable to them. This sheer volume of new music & content has simply become so immense that it’s impossible to keep up with everything anymore which has led to these microcultures & fleeting trends, as well as the shortening of the content we consume. On top of this, many people are economically worse off than before which is why they have less time & energy to consume new art, resulting in the A-listers becoming even more powerful as people rely more & more on what is already familiar to them. All of this is truly a sign of the times, the late stage capitalism model becoming more & more unstable as more players enter the game while the privileged few have already gamed the system so that they control most of the power & the resources. Whenever I get a feeling of ‘missing the bygone time’ of the pop monoculture, I remind myself that this was a crafted illusion which only very few people were able to be part of while most of the world was never able to participate in the first place & suddenly I feel a lot less sad about it. The Tiktok-ification of culture is kind of sad because of how difficult it is for someone creating less explosive, more complex longer form content to break through, but I appreciate the fact that people who never had a chance to be heard before can finally have a voice, even if it doesn’t match the superstar power of these english-speaking pop titans. Hopefully we’ll find a way to cut through the sheer volume of information in the future to help more great artists from around the world to be discovered, but in the meantime it is what it is. The old era of illusions & ridiculous power imbalance is slowly vanishing in the music business, the future is more egalitarian & global, all of this is a representation of all of this.

[@justanothercarol]

This is also the first time in human history where everyone around the world can instantly talk to anyone at any given time with the Internet and social media. Culture, communities, and regional uniqueness are slowly dying in favor of global digital niche communities

[@noaheogawa]

The mainstream pop music in Japan also feels very stagnant. So many “new” songs sound like music from 15 years ago. I understand that record labels only wants to put out what they know will sell. Anything new and different is a risk not many wants to take. Japanese music was a lot more inventive and memorable when the economy was booming in the past. Also the current Kpop is like H&M of music. I enjoyed Kpop from late 2000’s and early 2010’s but now those record companies are putting out music so frequently that the songs sound alike and also forgettable. Mass producing music and forgetting them in a matter of few weeks like some seasonal outfit from H&M is sad.

[@jonnyharvey]

that's a really interesting insight. Thanks for this.

[@fosminclorin]

Kpop sounds like the cringiest type of pop

[@AnnaliseQuentin]

@@fosminclorin It is, with a few exceptions like BTS and recently there's this girl group called newjeans. There's a reason y kpop is not famous as a genre itself but only bcoz of BTS.

[@erenyeagerist7681]

Japan is more notable for their ROCK than pop. I love listening to Japanese music. Japan is still inventive when it comes to rock. As for pop, Japan is the most creative in this genre than the rest of the world. I've been listening to various Japanese genres

[@erenyeagerist7681]

​@@AnnaliseQuentin bts sucks. They just copy from the west, Africa and Japan

[@efficiencygaming3494]

The absolute state of modern pop music always gave off the impression that record labels are panicking. They're playing too safe, rehashing old sounds and musical tropes and not being adventurous enough to try and stand out. That's why all pop artists seem to sound the same these days (or at least try to). You can also see similar trends happening in other forms of entertainment such as movies and video games. It makes me sad, really. There was a time when pop music was fun and easily enjoyable by a wide audience. It's been many years since I could listen to a pop station and not feel sick. "Oh no, pop is dead, long live pop It died an ugly death by back-catalogue..."

[@maccagrabme]

I haven't been able to listen to radio music for 25 years without feeling sick. I no longer like the sound or sight of it but still listen to many modern artists of various genres but there isn't really much about it that is up there with the 50s, 60s, 70s or 80s. Humans have changed and it's not in a good way.

[@Samizouza]

Very uncreative these days

[@aiaimonkey9085]

I just feel like everything goes in phases, another golden era of pop was the 1960's. Those records by The Supremes, The Mamas & The Paaps, The Fifth Dimmension, Peter & Gordon, Stevie Wonder, The Association and Petula Clark are timeless. Even the pop of the earlier decade like Neil sedaka and Lesley Gore.

[@stephenbanks5952]

Why did you miss out the biggest of them all? The Beatles!

[@jonnyharvey]

but this isn't just an issue of music simply evolving into another style or phase. There is a very obvious dearth of new talent breaking through. And the music industry isn't sure how to break new talent and is at the mercy of a social network's algorithm (most of the time)

[@aporue5893]

@@stephenbanks5952 paul is still here though,and ringo.

[@stephenbanks5952]

@@aporue5893 I don't understand what you mean. By your reckoning they shouldn't mention people who are still here, so they shouldn't have mentioned The Supremes (Diana Ross is still here) and Stevie Wonder.

[@RoyCoof]

Personally, pop isn't dead but took form and shape with other genres. It's ever-changing and flexible and can turn itself into another sound by mixing in influences and all.

[@riri9087]

We don't have any SUPERSTAR anymore like The Beatles , Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson status ! 💔

[@jonnyharvey]

Damn right

[@rtothec1234]

Taylor Swift is theee popstar, except … I cannot name one of her songs.😅 Her image and love life is more popular than her actual music.

[@rahuljoshi2728]

@@rtothec1234 shes the best selling artist of 21st century

[@gnu_andrew]

@@rahuljoshi2728 well that just says how bad the 21st century is.

[@Deborah-wv6jj]

@@rahuljoshi2728she is not, it’s rihana

[@nwlondonmetaller3427]

The Pop music quality has declined so much, some tracks you barely can hear a musical note. These artists focus on the beat, basslines, clicks and some random electronic sounds. This grabs the wider audience. The affects on the vocals then gives you the finished product. There is this trend of focusing on production, rather than quality. This is why I listen to Metal from Nightwish to Spiritbox. These bands have dedication towards quality and have pride on what they create.

[@jonnyharvey]

yes good point - thanks for this. Good classic songwriting seems to be a rarity these days. Those artists you mentioned seem to be more from a production background. Not a musical instrument/songwriting background.

[@nwlondonmetaller3427]

​@@jonnyharvey Nightwish and Spiritbox perform with instruments. It is worth watching live performances. They also create their own music.

[@patrickzloch]

I miss times of real divas like MARIAH, WHITNEY or CELINE :(

[@jonnyharvey]

Same

[@amiyarose9140]

I personally prefer pop music -- and other genres -- from Korea, Japan, the Philippines, and Russia. The quality of American pop (and mainstream entertainment in general) has been in decline, in my opinion, for quite some time.

[@joshmaclean3179]

Physical media is dead. It was the lifeblood of music. It was amazing to have a tangible product, album artwork and covers, taking out that shiny disk or vinyl and indulging whilst you played it for the first time. You would part with your hard earned money for an album. Now no one pays for anything. Autotune is used in mass, making a synthetic experience. Songs are shorter (Under 3 minutes) because later generations have a shorter attention span and studies show they don't like the previous average length of a song 3:30 to 4:45 minutes. Lucky we have a back catalogue of great songs.

[@jonnyharvey]

I guess a lot of ppl feel that way. Probably explains the huge success of catalogue music on streaming

[@gnu_andrew]

60s and early 70s songs were mostly under the 3 minute mark, yet that's the era of the Beatles. I wouldn't use that as a measure of a decent song.

[@frankrodriguez9081]

Last night VMAs awards were truly bland and boring

[@jonnyharvey]

I didn't see it

[@philluanastiemke6770]

I agree with all of this and it's very depressing. I was a child of the 60s and 70s, where most kids played instruments and bands were everywhere. Digital technology has not been a change for the better and it's quite sad to watch.

[@maccagrabme]

The difference with today is that even as kids we knew cringe music when we heard it but most of the youngsters now don't.

[@phillinsogood]

To me I feel like another reason why pop music is dying is because every is so lazy, bland or forgettable. It feels like every artist is sampling/ interpolating songs from previous decades or making songs that sound like different decades. There’s a big lack of talent, originality & overall showmanship. Nobody is really doing anything that hasn’t been done before

[@jonnyharvey]

Maybe they're starting to run out of new ideas? There does seem to be an excessive use of sampling and interpolating in the last few years, definitely.

[@phillinsogood]

@@jonnyharvey very much so and it’s fine just nothing new everyone is stuck in nostalgia

[@d3ly746]

@@jonnyharvey Idk I still hear new shit everyday in jpop

[@keithmcduffie7182]

98% of the songs are "Ghost Written" by the same 10 people at the Labels, classified as "employees" so all intellectual property belongs to the Label for them to credit to whichever "Music Spokes model" they choose, undercutting any publishing royalties being paid to the "Artist". And should an Artist write their own material they're paid such a low royalty rate in their contract that they would barely see any real money should they manage to climb out of the Pit of Financial Debt their record company contractually throws them in. STAY INDEPENDENT!!!

[@Johnnysmithy24]

The commodification of art is what killed it

[@fanstastic83]

I don't really like any of recent pop stars. The ones I like aren't that big, for example, Robyn, Jessie Ware, Moyka, Astrid S etc. I am glad they have a chance to upload their music and release music in general and for me to be able to listen to it. Kylie is still going strong though, she just had a top 10 hit in UK, which is amazing. But I get what you mean. Luckily, we can choose what we listen to these days, because there is no MTV and nobody really listens to the radio anymore. P.S I don't want to sound like an old grandpa (I am turning 40 this year), but I only had TikTok for one day and found it stupid, so I deleted it. Just like all other social media.

[@Patrick3183]

TikTok is owned by the Chinese communist party.

[@mattjastrzeb1724]

now tiktokers can make more money than real musicians

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

“Real” musicians never really made any money. Idk why y’all hate on Tiktokers. Your faves would have been relics by now without it.

[@rebymunster]

@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024no one is hating they just made a statement

[@8eight104]

I am a musician, and went on a professional level tour with bands signed to MNRK Music Group. I was a crew member/driver, and I made like almost two grand more than any of the musicians on the bill.

[@gnu_andrew]

@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 because the platform and everything on it is garbage.

[@mpiharymahefa7290]

When I was a teen in the mid 2010's, I used to note my top five song each month, I was so fond of pop music, but I noticed by the end 2018 that it was no more catchy and interesting, I've stopped listening to new pop music since then

[@jonnyharvey]

Things went downhill in the late 2010s

[@IndigoEnchantress]

I'm glad to come from an era where you'd go to a music store to purchase a cassette/CD single/album of your fave artists. Building on my CD collection made me an avid music lover.

[@mcmacshalfilya]

Would you smell the album cover right after opening it? I KNOW YOU DID!!

[@IndigoEnchantress]

@@mcmacshalfilya Lol! Sure did.

[@mcmacshalfilya]

@@IndigoEnchantress Before we close this exchange of words, I want to say this. I like your profile photo! 💌 Safe to assume that you are one of the most beautiful girls in the solar system☀😍💘

[@lonellfletcher]

There is still great music to be found, but it’s like specks in the desert they are so hard to find. Labels, apps, and streamers sell so much MEH music and underdeveloped artists and we accept them far too easily.

[@jonnyharvey]

People keep saying that. But should we have to going look for good music?

[@lonellfletcher]

@@jonnyharvey we shouldn’t HAVE to, but that’s the current reality

[@cowgirltheworld]

​@@jonnyharveyyes?? that's how music has always worked

[@jonnyharvey]

@@cowgirltheworld maybe I need to explore different platforms a bit more.

[@rev31089]

Imo, pop music quickly lost its glow in the mid 2010s. At around 2014-2015 you could just feel how artists and labels started to make whatever is catchy and will sell, and then quickly be forgotten. It’s the worst it’s ever been right now. The few, high quality releases I can recall in the last 8 years since 2015 are Chromatica, Renaissance and Future Nostalgia (however, you can easily count FN in the group of “what’s easy to sell”. It was still very good tho). The music industry right now is just so boring.

[@rEdf196]

As a kid back in the 1970’s watching vintage early 1960’s music videos of Bobby Vee, Fabian, Paul Anka ,Pat Boone. I was thinking thank goodness I didn’t have to live through that era. Today however it does feel like exactly, just that.

[@godsin7299]

chuck berry, little richard, ray charles, that era was packed with talent in the early 60s

[@Jsimm100]

Pop music died years ago, it's just most people are just catching up and realizing it. The music isn't the same and have the same appeal and feel, there are no more Pop Music "SUPERSTARS", only "STARS".

[@Fucorii]

Taylor Swift is a pop superstar imo....

[@Jsimm100]

@@Fucorii She is the exception not the rule tho

[@Fucorii]

@@Jsimm100 true...

[@diegidiego5617]

Almost everything has been done already, which makes it a lot harder to stand out. Popstars like Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Rihanna etc. are very hard to follow

[@jonnyharvey]

that's true. They covered so much ground.

[@yellowsauce4065]

Since going digital in the early 2000's, the music industry has lost its handle of control on music You can create your OWN album w/o needing to sign to any label and add it to any streaming service yourself to generate income without the middle man ( aka the music labels ). Depending on your sales and popularity, you can even go on tour independently. For instance, KZbin has replaced mixtapes as far as being a source for "breaking" new music and artists. You can create an entire "Drake" album (for instance ) to your preferences using AI customizations tools w/o even needing the artist himself these days including visuals and identically simulated vocals .... I don't feel any genre of music is lost because there is literally too much talent out there for that to be possible but I DO feel the way it is being exposed presented and marketed to us is currently fluctuating and the labels are in a state of panic, instead of having a "formula", which is what they are used to. There also seems to be more of a political stance on ratings and awarding from 'the industry" as opposed to popular opinion on the art and what the audience actually "vibes" to. To sum this up, the labels and the artist are fighting for control. The artist creates the art and the label can finance but the labels need to even out the playing field as far as profits because the artist would rather maintain control of their art, masters, publishing, production and writing credits than be taken advantage of by the labels any longer.

[@ZachariahJ]

It's not dying in South Korea! I may be a pensioner from the UK who grew up on Clapton and Hendrix, but while I'm doing chores around the house, it is to a background of K-Pop (G)-Idle, Aespa, and Itzy! It is quality pop, like Abba, and The Hollies, and The Beatles (before they went more rock-ish). It is already the most listened to music in the world - but it hasn't really broke through in the Anglo-sphere (yet), so it is sort of unnoticed.

[@nougat75]

I am a big pop music consumer and when I started to no longer be satisfied with the catalog offered by western pop music I became a kpop fan. There is a lot of groups, new songs released every week, and competition between groups forces them to constantly strive to be original and do their best. New Jeans "ETA", Purple Kiss "Sweet Juice" or Eunbi "The Flash" are one of my favorite songs of this year. I thought the downfall of western pop music would lead to the growth of kpop but it seems to not be happening and I don't really know how to explain it (even if I have a few ideas)

[@jonnyharvey]

maybe I will have to do the same and start getting into Kpop?

[@nightjaronthegate]

@@jonnyharvey Check out Korean artists IU and GFriend in my playlists. GFriend are now sadly disbanded but they had some of the best songs ever.

[@ficnonnie6006]

I recommend Seventeen for a group with a varied catalog who writes and produces their own stuff (creative control), since I haven't seen them mentioned yet. I just fell down the kpop rabbit hole this year myself.

[@frankrodriguez9081]

There will never be another Michael Jackson, Madonna, Lady Gaga, Janet Jackson, Britney Spears, or even Beyonce. Music just sucks now

[@jonnyharvey]

Nope there won't. They set the bar so high and they're impossible to replace.

[@austinreed7343]

I'd take Justin FUCKING Bieber over the modern day attempts at singers. At least despite being annoying he's memorably terrible.

[@gnu_andrew]

Well, Lady Gaga tried to be another Madonna and failed, so there's your proof.

[@marcusmiro7481]

I think a reduction in superstars is a good thing. I don't know many pop-aficionados that would want there to be LESS Roisin Murphys in the world, LESS Goldfrapps in the world. More mid-sized pop artists and less megastars is ultimately a good thing for musical quality.

[@jonnyharvey]

I don't know- maybe? It would be nice to have a mix of the two.

[@ShadowJinxXOX]

Compared to the Korean industry the one thing that we’re doing wrong in America is not having as much variety when it comes to the performances. Their artists prioritizing singing, dancing, rap, and showbiz (stage performance, hosting, variety shows, etc.) is what gives them that entertained edge and why our genre is dying out

[@orlock20]

It's time tested such as with acts such as Menudo in the 1970s and the boy groups in the 1990s.

[@archivesunset4214]

yeah as a kpop fan they don't sing live 99% of the time and the music itself isn't that good overall they prefer making a bunch of songs rapidly over taking time to produce memorable and good songs. also kpop idols rapping isn't good tbh it's very rare where u see a actually good kpop rapper

[@maximilianosoto-kq5vi]

@@archivesunset4214 Groups like NCT, EXO, SHINee, NMIXX, TVXQ, mostly SM idols, have amazing LIVE vocals, a lot of american acts lipsync too, don´t act a fool. About the rapidly produced music, it depends on the company, more money = better producers = better music, hence why SM has arguably the best music out there, however, theres a lot of groups putting up GREAT music paired up with talented producers. TripleS is a great example, they can´t really sing, but their producers knows how to play up with that and still puts up great music. And yeah, rap in kpop tends to be cringy, but there's still great rappers on the scene: Mark from NCT, BTS rap line, SKZ rap line, Btob's ILHOON. etc

[@skyfitsheaven]

I don’t even think it has much to do with growing older , I’m 25 and ever since maybe 2016-2017 mainstream music has been so monotone and nowhere near as fun and alive as it used to be when i was a kid

[@elgonwilliams7624]

The Music Industry has virtually ignored independent artists and has dismissed Rock music as being a dead genre. Both have led to the decline in relevancy of the major award shows as they are systematically shut out of consideration. Even independent artists to manage to gain some attention from a major label and sign a contract are shoved aside unless they are Pop, Hip Hop, or Rap. What the industry in the US and UK has largely ignored is the development of underground fuson based in throwback Rock roots that brings in elements from Pop, Hip-Hop and Rap. This movement is strong in Latin America and Asia. One of the reasons for the popularity of catalog music is that the music 'buying/streaming' audience is looking for something more than the autotuned garbage foisted as Pop music. Younger folks are discovering past greats from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. But seeing bands from those eras in live concert costs a small fortune, probably because of the expense of touring. Young people will and already are migrating to some of the newer artists who embrace Rock music. I believe this will continue into the near future and if the industry doesn't embrace this it will continue to decline and eventually fade away. Also, the old awards will fade away unless they open up to artists from the independent camp.

[@jonnyharvey]

Some really good points here. I think people still want to hear rock music - the record companies just aren't investing in it- they're not having the patience and developing the talent. And also many of those independent artists, with the right people behind them could crossover to more mainstream success (whilst maintaining their artistic integrity). Where does record companies today think so many of our music legends came from?

[@GARdotETH]

I'm glad I grew up in the 80s/90s. Michael, Whitney, Mariah, Celine, Cher, Prince, Madonna, Britney, Christina, Destiny's Child, Eternal, Take That, Oasis, Blur....and of course The Spice Girls...C'mon you know you secretly like them 👀 So many GREAT artists. The only artist I like from today is Adele.

[@jonnyharvey]

Me too. The golden era. So much great music all the time. How things have changed.

[@gnu_andrew]

And Adele is basically aping the 60s sound. One of her first hits was even a Bob Dylan cover.

[@peaceful_chaos14]

We can all agree that Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry and Adele are the latest true pop superstars, and there hasn’t been anyone who has reached that level since. Sure artists like Olivia Rodrigo, Doja Cat, Billie Eilish, Dua Lipa might be big now, but their impact seems very compartmentalized compared to those ladies I mentioned from the early ‘10s. And also, this guy needs to give kpop a chance because we can see true pop superstars in kpop nowadays, and they also go through an extensive training period so they have the skills and talent to back up their popularity.

[@eduardogavilanes4651]

What about Beyoncé? Your racism is showing. Stop downplaying that woman. And Katy Perry? 😂 her last 2 albums bombed badly.

[@prismaticligh9391]

​@@eduardogavilanes4651 They are not downplaying her, the artists aforementioned are the most "recent" as they debuted after her. And like her or not, you can't ignore Katy Perry's achievements and impact, her last 2 "flop" albums don't erase her huge success and iconic hits still known today. Such a shallow logic...

[@marismm6405]

@@eduardogavilanes4651 nothing to do with racism. The person missed two big names (Rihanna and Beyonce)? Yes. But this does not make the argument less true.

[@eduardogavilanes4651]

@@prismaticligh9391 but y’all call Beyoncé a flop for getting her first solo number one in 10 years. Make it make sense. Name any other artist that debuted in the late 90s that is still breaking records today. I’ll wait. Because she pretty much outlasted all her peers. (Ex: Britney, Xtina, P!nk, Ashanti etc). The fact that she is being compared to other artists today says a lot.

[@mariotato8345]

Anyway all that people are shit if u compare with Madonna , Abba or Michael Jackson ,they were really the BEST pop acts in history

[@RelyaVoy]

Pop music to this date doesn't get taken seriously. I mean, the Pop tracks from 2000 + 2010s are now loved mostly because of nostalgia and people recognize the magic the songs have, but today ... it's really hard to find a pure pop-loving audience or get taken seriously for that. I live in Germany and we have some "Pop Newcomer awards" for independent artists and it's all about indie music and bands. Real Pop get's smiled at. Doesn't matter if you produce it all yourself or put lots of work into your songs. I miss the days were it at least was loved by the General Public :')

[@jonnyharvey]

yes me too but I'm also talking about popular music in general.

[@chuggachuggachoochoo9440]

pop music isn’t really dying , mainstream pop is !! it’s really hard to find good pop artists , but if you look hard enough you can find them . Some good pop artists are rina sawayama, muna, chapell roan, allie x, caroline polacheck, the list goes on

[@jonnyharvey]

Thanks for those suggestions. I will look those artists up.

[@gentlegiant5678]

Your videos are incredible! Great quality, great topics, and really good research! You're gonna blow up my friend!

[@jonnyharvey]

Cheers - thank you. Let’s hope so

[@ElVlogdeBob]

It was around 2017 when I noticed I was listening to more 902 and 80s music than modern one. The oversaturation of Reggeaton contributed to that. I once turned the radio in a modern hits station radio and I noticed that I couldn't distinguish one artist or song from the other. All songs sounded the same and all the singers had the same monotone voice and style. I have no idea what are the modern pop hits nowadays.

[@roguephoenix]

what people don't realize is that pop is more than what they think it is. pop has made it's way through various other styles. plus the biggest acts right now are pop artists from korea. you can't say pop is dying when it's changing unless whoever wrote that doesn't know the difference

[@jonnyharvey]

Did you watch the video? Popular music is certainly evolving, it always has done, that's a given. But simultaneously, it's also in serious decline. There is a gaping lack of new bands and superstars emerging. There was an article in Billboard from a few weeks ago (American trade magazine) which supports my thesis - it's not just my opinion.

[@Patrick3183]

Korean pop SUCKS

[@W81Researcher]

Sorry but America does not care for BTS.

[@melissaaltidor5147]

You are a 100% correct I still listen to you the artist that I grew up with and some newer artist and I say some with a S however I've also discovered K-Pop especially some of the programs that I will sense you such as a Blackpink recently as spot and red velvet I think those are my top 3 K-Pop girl groups that are killing the pop game right now

[@coolclearfacts6105]

I don't normally watch music related videos, but I'n glad I watched this. I very much enjoyed it. Thanks for posting. Cheers.

[@jonnyharvey]

Thank you 😀😀

[@idiedoof4339]

As Gen Z'er who likes every jazz related genre and has nothing to do with social media, I see this as an absolute win

[@kaunas888]

The problem is not a lack of good singers. The problem is a lack of good songs. Composing is the problem.

[@jonnyharvey]

Songwriting is a real skill. It takes years to develop

[@Trance88]

The biggest contributor to the decline of pop music is the internet giving us access all the music of the world at our fingertips. There's no incentive for the masses to pay attention to new specific bands or artists promoted by big labels when they can listen to better music from any era, commercial or not.

[@weilianlee9090]

I was a kid/teenager during the 1980s to mid-1990s. Looking back I can’t believe how lucky we were to have the music we did back then. I often wondered the same thing - what happened to the music of today?? I mean, really, WHAT HAPPENED? Music back then was so full of love, hope, dreams, beautiful feelings. And so catchy! And modern. Songs from the 1950’s-1960s would sound outdated in the 1980s but songs from the 1980s-1990s would not really sound outdated today. In fact, some of them would even sound downright futuristic today, some 30 years later. Songs like Rhythm Nation (Janet Jackson), Girlfriend (Pebbles), Vogue, Ray of Light, Don’t Tell Me (Madonna), Straight Up, Always On My Mind(Pet Shop Boys). The catchiness of the songs were incredible compared to today. Smooth Criminal (Michael Jackson), Faith (George Michael), U Can’t Touch This, The Look (Roxette). The magnificent anthems like Living On A Prayer (Bon Jovi), Sweet Child O Mine (Gun’s N Roses), High Enough (Damn Yankees). We had yearning songs like Glory of Love (Karate Kid), Forever Young ( Alphaville), Fields of Gold (Sting), Leave A Light On and Summer Rain (Belinda Carlisle). We had songs like Eternal Flame (Bangles), Hold On (Wilson Phillips), True Colors (Cyndi Lauper). We had songs like Power of Love (Jennifer Rush), All Out of Love and Making Love Out of Nothing At All (Air Supply). We had Alone and All I Wanna Do Is Make Love to You by Heart. We had Total Eclipse of The Heart by Bonnie Tyler and What A Feeling by Irene Cara. And we haven’t even gotten to Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston yet! I mean they both emerged in the 1980s with iconic songs! Incredible! I Wanna Dance With Somebody, Saving All My Love For You, All At Once, The Greatest Love Of All, One Moment In Time, I Will Always Love You, Vision Of Love, Love Takes Time, Make It Happen, Emotions, Dreamlover, Hero, All I Want For Christmas Is You. And of course, Celine Dion also emerged during this time period. We had feel good songs like Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now (Starship) and Waiting For A Star To Fall (Boy Meets Girl). There are some good songs from the past ten years. But overall something is missing. The catchiness. The hope. The love. The magic. It’s missing.

[@NJGuy1973]

I was a teenager then too. All those old songs hold great memories for me. Which is why I don't need any new songs. I can listen to Air Supply, Guns 'n Roses, and Marian Carey any time I want for practically nothing. You and I had to pay for music. We had to earn money, go to a store, and make consumer decisions regarding music. Teenagers today don't. They can just rip what they want whenever. And effort will not be made to create something that has no more value.

[@swagmundfreud666]

Look man, I'm a Gen Zer, born in 2004. 80s and 90s music sounds dated to me. Hell, 2015 music is starting to sound dated to me. There's plenty of good music out there, you just have to look past the pop charts and try to find music through other means.

[@MathieuLLF]

​@@swagmundfreud666any decent music now is just a copy of what was big in the 60s through 90s

[@yt4870]

I miss the old music industry. But I admit nowadays it's really easy to listen to every music

[@romy8661]

Gen X here and I’m finding plenty of good pop music. Carly Rae Jepsen makes amazing albums, but is under rated, as is the case with many of them. Maisie Peters, Magdalena Bay, Allie X, to name just a few. For older stars, Debbie Gibson released The Body Remembers last year, fantastic pop music. It’s still out there. People just don’t look for it or write off all current music as what’s popular on Spotify.

[@jonnyharvey]

yes, things are more fragmented now. Maybe you have to look a little further afield to find good stuff.

[@TaljaHeartzy-yc2jv]

​@@jonnyharvey The new pop Artists are talented, but I feel the raw singing that was present in the older generations is gone, it's filtered with beauty, perfect, auto tune singing, I miss the days where Pop singers where singing from the soul

[@cydelegs]

It’s just a different world now, so many platforms, when I grew up everyone was basically getting their musical tastes dictated to them by who were promoted by the industry giants. It was either radio or television. There were also plentiful venues for artists to play live in front of drunk rowdy crowds and make just enough $ to keep going and learning what worked without the world watching, if they were selected to be promoted they had their skills down.

[@jonnyharvey]

Yes the industry has more back then. Things have changed dramatically

[@joerichardwad1645]

Pretty ironic that ABBA, a pop band from the 70s, is bigger than ever and sells out their own arena with an avatar show every weekend! 😳

[@gnu_andrew]

Gen X (70s & 80s) are the money making generation right now. Lots of 80s stars dusting off their jackets and having another go too.

[@SuperDuperVision]

This was quality. You got a supporter in me

[@jonnyharvey]

Thank you 😀😀

[@trevorlawrence2119]

I think that each genre has their time in the spotlight like disco went mainstream in the late 70s, Nu metal went mainstream in the early 2000s, EDM went mainstream in mid 2010s.

[@mmdcdj]

You hit the nail on the head. (Great job editing btw)

[@jonnyharvey]

Awh cheers - thank you 😀

[@dgemon3476]

A Gen-Z here, don't have a tiktok account, mainly listen to 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s rock, pop.

[@WhatDoesCoreyThink]

You have great taste. That's a breath of fresh air to this 38 yr old.

[@dgemon3476]

@@WhatDoesCoreyThink Thanks for the kind words man

[@W81Researcher]

Too many of your Gen are listening to that.

[@dgemon3476]

@@W81Researcher Good to hear

[@jaidenamccarroll]

After 2020 music was never the same

[@SecretWeapon62578]

As a musician and music lover who has some knowledge of how the industry works and has rejected most of what's currently mainstream in favor of other music I've sought out since the mid-90's or so, none of this really surprises me. The major record companies and media outlets that disseminate music (in the US in particular) did this to themselves via their own greed-driven stupidity over the course of several decades. One thing that severely damaged popular music that few people were aware of at the time (and even fewer seem to remember today) is how few companies have been allowed to own pretty much all of the major labels, radio stations and television stations in the US. In the 1970's, media ownership had not yet become nearly so consolidated, so radio stations actually had some degree of control over their own playlists, rather than having it all dictated to them by some uncaring megacorporation based at the opposite end of the country. Starting around the early 1980's, large corporations started buying up more and more media properties, and more and more mergers were allowed by the federal government, until most of the radio stations in America were owned by three or four companies who allowed stations less and less local control over what they played. Eventually, the music industry (a capitalist enterprise) began to behave more like what we were always told the Soviet economic system was like, where if potatoes are what is being sold this week, potatoes is what you're getting. The people who ran these companies as they kept getting bigger by gobbling up smaller companies clearly didn't do so to increase the quality and variety of music on the market. So once the few dominant companies had eliminated nearly all meaningful competition, they obviously had no more incentive to offer the best product possible, and they clearly didn't. Why else would we end up with so much bland, monotonous rubbish in the charts (pretty much all in three very musically limited genres, btw- pop, hip hop and country), with so many songs using the same type of electronic beat and the same few trite lyrical concepts, delivered by singers who are overly dependent on Autotune? Bottom line, the mainstream music industry stopped caring about substance years ago (and barely cared about it in the first place). They adopted the late 20th/ early 21st century American business approach where short-term profit and endless "growth" trumps everything else. And look where it got us. Surprised? Here's the good news that most of the public seem to have missed for the last couple of decades, though: you have other options. You don't have to listen to the ridiculously narrow range of formulaic crap being pushed on you by the few companies who have been allowed to control the mainstream music industry. The internet means that there are entire worlds of music of many types available for you to hear if you just figure out where to look. (KZbin is often surprisingly good for this, suggesting excellent music I was previously unaware of.) No matter what kinds of music you like, the range and quality of it you can find online if you look hard enough is unbelievable.

[@jonnyharvey]

yes I should've included those points in the video about the consolidation of ownership of the media, radio and record labels, especially in America. But it's had an impact in Europe too. Only three labels left now.

[@vrant_19]

The purity of the music in general is just lost..

[@MisterWhatWhat]

This makes me sad. I miss the days of the pop-Divas in music. I loathe TikTok with every fiber of my being.

[@jonnyharvey]

Yeah I miss those days too. Everything must change I suppose.

[@jamesbarker2567]

@@jonnyharvey Everything Must Change But Why????? I Really Dont Like Change

[@Thebian100]

Pop music just means popular music. The style changes with the times but music being popular doesn't.

[@jonnyharvey]

Yes but the health of popular music in general is in decline. There are hardly any new superstars or bands

[@letachja]

One fact that I see rarely mentioned in these kind of videos, is that music in the english language is getting less popular on a global scale. It used to be normal to have the same (mostly american) artists topping the charts in various countries. Nowadays it´s quite common to see local artists singing in their own language top the charts. This might also be an explanation why we see less global superstars. While I understand why some people mourn the loss of big superstars, it´s also refreshing to see that the american dominance on pop culture is dwindling and instead having an increasing amount of german, spanish and french (and many other languages) music to chose from. Intrestingly we see a similar development happening with movies.

[@jonnyharvey]

Thanks for this take on things. The second point is really good. I didn’t include info on the first point cause I didn’t find any research pertaining to it. But that’s a very interesting insight. I guess it also correlates to America’s diminishing standing in the world in other areas too

[@andybong6725]

Dear pop fans: The end of an era is here

[@jonnyharvey]

it does feel like that sometimes.

[@frankrodriguez9081]

I am so sick of the same old reggaeton music. Bad Bunny is horrible

[@dolledout8]

THANK YOU !!! HORRIBLE

[@jonnyharvey]

I'm reading a lot about him. I will have to listen to him soon.

[@mattymoo]

Imagine what a young genius like Prince, coming of age now, could have done with this new paradigm instead of having to write the word "slave" for Warner Brothers on the side of his face for a decade. Musical genius will continue to exist regardless of its particular commercial distribution structure. Good music existed before the 1900s recording industry and it will continue after the 1900s music industry either evolves or goes extinct.

[@frankrodriguez9081]

Thriller is still the greatest video of all time including Bad Romance by Lady Gaga

[@Cardsmaster]

We really have to fight. Debasing art, fashion, music and movies will literally lead to the downfall of society.

[@jonnyharvey]

Culture definitely seems to be at a standstill - the arts are the only thing that keep a lot of ppl sane

[@heroncolby2842]

Regarding pop music. I honestly feel like im listening to robot's singing and not talented human Singer's. Everything is so overly produced and mixed so heavily with computers that the human emotional essence is being lost in the process. We need to go back to basics with music.

[@jonnyharvey]

yes - we need to hear some live instruments again. And proper songwriting.

[@SabaSaliba]

As the song says “Video killed the Radio Star” and now “Social Media killed the Pop Star”…

[@Islas_Canarias]

I used to religiously watch music TV shows from the age of 18 in 1988 with MTV until 2015 age 45 when I just stopped. I realised that music had changed and was nothing like it used to be. I couldn't name a hit song from today, although I have heard of people like Billy Eilish, Lil nas X, Harry Styles, I still couldn't name one of their songs nor have any interest in doing so. Music has become boring, monotonous with everyone just copying one another not to mention the pornographic level of music videos being produced. The music industry has becime one giant, filthy, sethpool of sordidness and wickedness. I'm happy to live out my life with the past 60 years of music and rock stars.

[@robertmusonda-gi4bk]

The King of Pop, MJ would be so disappointed if he were alive😮‍💨Music really is going through a rough patch

[@Thespeedrap]

He was the king of Pop plus he really did save and redeemed the music industry.Once he passed away you can tell the business died with him.