Why Producing NOTHING AT ALL is Optimal in Civ 6

[@universal-remote]

First Herson tells us not to research techs, then he tells us not to produce anything. Next he's going to tell us not to play the game in order to optimize our lives.

[@jamsteroffthewheel4731]

Hahahahah

[@froyocrew]

Dont make THIS mistake in civ 6 bbg! (Settling)

[@bosmobosmo]

"Why not winning is the best strategy in multiplayer Civ 6"

[@antondzajajurca7797]

WarGames

[@w1nden299]

This comment just made my day! xD

[@yep862]

I loved the part where Herson said "it's production overflowing time" then overflowed everywhere

[@RK9.]

its true, i got some of the overflow on myself

[@ultravioletsus]

Onii-chan, it's overflowing 😮.

[@lucasharvey8990]

When will this meme finally lay down and be put to rest never to be risen again

[@JohnThacker-qi4gp]

god optimizing civ 6 is disgustingly specific

[@nezarecbray4600]

Kinda crazy that you are the only international Civ streamer doing educational content. (Lege does it in french I know) But yeah, thanks for putting the effort for us to become better and improve.

[@thefeof6161]

French is also kinda international

[@ultravioletsus]

​@@thefeof6161but it's Fr*nch.

[@ultravioletsus]

​@@thefeof6161but it's Fr*nch.

[@legegaming2839]

he is the only one doing youtube educational content, my vod are only live from twitch and my tutorial are quite outdated now. very good content again from herson ! anyway ur welcome to come around and watch both of us on twitch !

[@ardasoydan9394]

@@thefeof6161 no it isnt

[@codenamezq8027]

I figured you were gonna talk about production overflow, but didn't realize how even further in-depth it goes. Also something that has come up several times in my games due to the research step being before the production step is when I research a new unit type while making pre-builds. The new unit type is researched first, increasing the cost of the no longer pre-builds, and causing them to come out later, even if they were set to come out the same turn.

[@alonilin]

Finally, the mistery of terracota and builders in the same turn with 5 and 3 charges are solved

[@pialba]

1:17 Another notable effect of research step coming before production step in turn rollover is "the undesirable production upgrade effect" : if, say, you're producing a Slinger and it's due to finish the turn you research Archery, the slinger production will turn into Archer production before the production is actually added - and, because the archer costs more than the slinger, the archer might actually not complete. So it says your slinger is due next turn but then after you click end turn you're still 1 turn away from producing a (now archer) unit.

[@c1bas3k7]

Kinda late response and prob just aimed for newer players, but I wouldn't necessarily call it "undesirable". In fact there are multiple situations when you want to do this to effectively prebuild an archer (or another unit for that matter), where you don't really have that much gold to upgrade it later.

[@bertdog2119]

“Interesting Tips and Tricks”, sir this is wizardry. Don’t sell yourself short

[@PotatoMcWhiskey]

Personally speaking, production and civic/tech saving go against the spirit of the game and they make the game less fun so I don't do them. The production order of things has always been frustrating to me, randomly losing builder charges because a city built something else. I also hate the way they killed production overflow. I would have preferred an actual option to save overflow rather than leaving cities blank.

[@jonathanferguson9226]

Also the city builds a settler BEFORE it grows. So if you want the boost for having 6 pop you have to delay the settler a turn if you're 1 turn away from both.

[@vincent06]

6:16 I didn't even know that Terracotta Army provided a free promotion to spies

[@evankimori]

Tell me about it. EVERY SINGLE video from Herson teaches me something. -_-

[@MaggotTayne]

There are a few buffs in this game that affect all units and not just combat units, and I am surprised by them every time.

[@remlapwastaken8857]

The AI never seems to go for it despite building encampments (probably because they can't city plan worth 💩), so by the time I had spies I could still get Terracotta Army even without Imhotep.

[@Speak4Yourself2]

same lol

[@HagarTopeka1]

This is mind-blowing enough that I feel compelled to comment to boost it. I've noticed you do a *lot* of locking worker tiles, well into the late early game. It feels counterintuitive; I imagine I would do worse than the computer's worker placement, especially after accounting for forgetting to unlock. I would enjoy seeing a video like this one about decision-making for what tiles to work.

[@alexbrestowski4131]

The computer doesn’t know what you want to do u less you give it the priorities to work with. If it could read your mind it would 100% be better at assigning citizens

[@matsiv5707]

some small tweaks like locking the tiles you 100% want to work regardless of anything else and then switching between food and production priority helps a lot. Also a thing a lot of people should do when they are starting to work unproductive tiles is locking science specialists or iz/encampment specialist. Encampment specialists are actually pretty good if you have high food tiles to compensate

[@RocketPropelledMexican]

This is essentially production gooning

[@albertsign8575]

goon gang

[@bigperk345]

Out here defining gooning for all of us.

[@UncalibratedAimbot]

I haven’t played civ 6 in two years but you’re so good at explaining and making things interesting that I’ve watched your civ guides playlist about 5 times through. Thanks for the amazing videos!

[@Grizabeebles]

Wow. The info about production overflow is going to really change my gameplay pattern. I'm a big Alpha Centauri fan, so I got used to multiple techs and units/buildings per turn if you had enough overflow. I got used to Civ 6's many "one per turn" limits, but I had no idea that production overflow didn't carry over. Which means the simplest way to make maximum use of production is to only ever build stuff that takes at least 2 turns and buy the stuff that takes 1 turn with other resources.

[@iansanford6544]

Does city tile expansion through Culture accumulation happen before, alongside or after Culture is applied towards Civics research? Can affect what tiles citizens work for the Production step.

[@happyjack2477]

Great explanation- getting back into Civ6 because of your content

[@Darkkikou]

Thanks for going so far in the analysis

[@ZZValiant]

Another banger from Hisdaughter

[@Blehster_Bleh]

one thing I don't understand regarding production overflow is "why do it?" if I want to build something that takes 2 turns to build and I produce nothing for a turn, to bank production, and then use this overflow to build something in 1 turn, have I not basically spent the same two turns to build this one thing? 1 turn to bank overflow and 1 turn to build, it's not like any overflow will be saved up for the turn after because it gets deleted anyway. that's the only thing that I don't get, aside from the settler example where the banked overflow would actually impact the time to build the settler due to colonization, I don't see why banking would work. p.s. I say this because I'm interested in the concept, but I am not a multiplayer player and most likely won't ever have need of using this method in my singleplayer games. all in all, great video mister herson

[@kampiaorinis]

The way I understand it, is when you need to wait a turn before unlocking something (ex. wait for a research/culture) instead of punting said turn to something else, just research nothing. So if for example you unlock the tech for harbour in 1 turn and you will need 2 additional turns to build it, then you'd have the harbour in 3 turns. However, if you bank the production the turn before you unlock the harbour, you essentially get a 2 for 1 production turn which will make your harbour be completed in 2 turns total (1 for nothing and 1 producing it). Now sure, you could technically sink the production to something else you will eventually want (ex another archer) but if you play as a civ that benefits greatly from a building/unit, then you will need to think about this strategy.

[@couikcouik]

A question about turn rollovers: when does the population growth step take place? It’s important to mention as it could be crucial for inspirations like civil service or early empire. If the growth step takes place before the research step, you could reach 6 (or 10) pop on the same turn you research the civic, granting you the inspiration before your culture goes into the tech, allowing you to create more overflow. However, if it is after, then you’d waste culture that would be granted by the eureka. Edit: the growth step is after the research step, you can observe it in Lege’s recent Trajan FFA video when he researches Early Empire.

[@michaelsyntak5418]

After playing this game for umpteen years I just learned yesterday city states spawn as settlers and you can capture the settler and have 2 cities on turn 7.

[@mammaletto]

Prod / settle order matters for splendid district era score too, can be important for golden

[@marqolinho]

How?

[@mammaletto]

@@marqolinho you can get 3 era score by getting a +4 commercial. If your first expand finishes one on the same turn as your cap does, and the cap commercial is placed next to the expand commercial so you get +4, you will get the era score. But the other way round, if it was the cap one that was +4, you would not get era score because it would finish as a +3 and only go to +4 after the expand one finishes. Same principle for other district types

[@marqolinho]

​@mammaletto true, didnt think about that!

[@dreamscloser]

One extra thing which might not be obvious: when shift-entering during war moves or for avoiding your civilian units being stolen (quite often in teamers) you lose your overflow if you dont have anything in production queue. Also, @Herson why not settling culture-faith tile next to the wonder at 14:01. It is the same turn settle. You lose extra prod under city center but you would be able to compensate that by improving a tile and get an extra yields from watermill farm?

[@gd8693]

As a Nintendo Switch player, I just nodded along. Turns can not be forcibly ended there.

[@aeonstar293]

The last time I was this early for a Herson video, I got a legendary starting location

[@miniminion8866]

Hey, this one would be incredibly niche, but where does population up come in the end turn order. Does it come before the production step and so the new population is working this turn or does it come all the way at the end?

[@personhuman2239]

Can't wait for Herson to oil it p and throw it back

[@TrueValandor]

Isn't there also city growing to consider here? As far as I know (which might be wrong or just something in CIV 5) when a city grows it automatically assigns a the new citizen to a square and that citizen produces for that turn.

[@MrMrtvozornik]

I'm sorry, are you from Balkan or naming cities according to subs asking during streams? Because 7:02 has a swear word in it 😆

[@lazydroidproductions1087]

Ok yeah I’m gonna forget all of this before I feel the need to scoop my brain out

[@davekrueger7931]

So overflow is somewhat similar to civ 4 minus slavery production accumulation?

[@theasianthatsbetterthanyou8324]

"fuwawa bau bau" as city name, I smell vtuber watcher

[@mageta621]

I only play single player and while I occasionally shift+enter on techs or civics to give myself time to get eurekas/inspirations, my game will not let me force end the turn without something in every city's production queue. Is this something that was patched for single player but not in multiplayer?

[@Isabelle-mp8rk]

i find it so odd that the game doesn't spend production overflow before the next turns production, it just sounds like it'd be less punishing for new players while still fixing the banking of overflow since you can't have more than one turn of overflow maximum anyways with the system of it only lasting one turn, there are probably negative gameplay patterns this leads to that i don't know off but it sounds less punishing than the current one as a complete casual.

[@dyedie1]

Why would the game not spend the overflow production first and then use the city’s normal production?

[@villekorpi714]

🎵 You cheese it best when you build nothing at all. 🎵

[@ShmeckleBoy]

Thank you Herson, now I know how to flow over.

[@gozenzoguevara9099]

When I try to force end a turn with no prod selected the game always crash ;-; am i forbidden to optimize ?

[@JasonTorpy]

wtf did like 10min of next-turn order of operations have to do with the video header and 4min of turn-turn production overflow mechanics?

[@kindacruise]

the best optimization is paying ur opponents $5 to throw

[@clj4805]

Hey, I have flood barriers finishing on the same turn that sea levels rise, what happens first?

[@dittodemo123]

So, what if you are playing without any DLC or mods? Does this still apply?

[@EmpyrealEndemic]

Hell yeah would love to see you talk about mods in general. Is multi just bbg?

[@ichewoncrayons9004]

She herson on my overflow till i production

[@Djadou]

Live footage of Herson playing against prince AI

[@Tome36]

whats on your cup on your profile picture?

[@TurboJohn]

How does era score (potentially making or not making golden age) get affected by the order in which things happen at the end of your turn ?

[@HersonCiv]

Nothing you research or produce on the final turn of an era actually contributes any era score to the current era - all of those things happen after the era rolls over, and so all of them contribute era score to the next era instead. I think you might be able to get era score for meeting another civilization if an AI meets you by moving one of their units during the turn rollover, but that's it.

[@Kaye7150]

@@HersonCiv In that scenario, what about a city state moving a unit during rollover and meeting you, giving you political philosophy boost which completes another city state quest that makes you suzerain (+ era score)

[@xxthelinkxx3296]

Production Overflow

[@6yrsenior]

All I can do is stare at how many/how large the civs are at like turn 60 I’m struggling to get a 3rd city down by then wtf

[@DarthDanMan2]

Depends on your game speed too. If you play on standard you’d be way behind online speed timings.

[@marvincruz4434]

title explanation begins at 11:34

[@sir_serhii]

we all are great players now

[@loopuleasa]

Blue globe background Herson is prime Herson

[@davidkelvon7936]

I assume gold and faith are part of the production rollover.

[@snatch3610]

Great video

[@msmith42001]

Sounds like I’ve been wasting a lot of overflow production

[@brendangregory6373]

This is why I stopped not producing anything.. Too many sweats

[@loopuleasa]

I am disappointed in this community that "production overflow" is not called "production edging"

[@ALittleMessi]

The community is too old, edging wasn't popular. Maybe in the next game they'll all band together and call it edging

[@michaeld3085]

Time for a shower, it just got really sweaty in here...

[@okolenmi7511]

It's matter a lot because of game speed. 250 turns is not so much, really. Especially, when a game finishing at turn 120...

[@hadders08]

Liked for 'Kebab Factory'

[@Bona-st7go]

love the shorter edited vids

[@BeoWolfman]

You have to realize to win civ you have to "morb." That's what Herson hasn't told you. A lot of civ players do the strategy of morbing.

[@danielkaszas2982]

We are not ready to know about that secret. It will only be revealed in a much later video.

[@UsrnamePending]

The first point reminded me of the more common strategy in Civ 3 and Civ 5 to manipulate the order in which city yields are taken. If you harvest enough food to get an additional pop, they will provide all the non-food yields that turn, most notably production. So with a bit of micro you can squeeze out extra hammers for wonders or for buildings in all your cities.

[@northernkantomonkey868]

This just makes me want to play Civ 6 less, convoluted for not reason and worse even, not explained by the game

[@ImprobableMatter]

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

[@TheMelnTeam]

Some of these interactions are bugs by any respectable interpretation.

[@Deadgye]

>Civ 6 resolves each city sequentially in the order of settling. >There is no write-back forwarding Jeez. These programmers never even touched a computer architecture class.

[@c1bas3k7]

We are getting deeper and deeper into optimizing the fun out of the game (personally for me)... while I understand the aspect of competitive environment, this is more or less just using (or abusing) poor game mechanics that Firaxis didn't know about or was too lazy to fix... I sincerely hope and encourage competitive players to actually address Firaxis with the findings about poorly designed game mechanics, so that we don't have these shenanigans in the upcoming game... Competitive scene shouldn't be about finding broken mechanics in order to win (and is the reason why I prefer playing on Standard speed with my friends). Great informational video tho, I respect the work you put into this.

[@bestLetsplayer]

Next vid: why NOT PLAYING civ 6 is optimal

[@tinma5066]

FUWAWA BAU BAU SPOTTED. Some of your viewers are VTuber fans.

[@Speak4Yourself2]

insane

[@kurlykrenins]

civ 6 is not a complicated game lol, its simplified garbage for the masses. 4 & 5 clear and its not even close

[@supportkommentar6304]

Supportkommentar

[@titusbaum9690]

Ah yes, Firaxes doesn't like every try-hard minmaxxing everything all the time, so they make the game harder for noobs and still leave it gameable by the super-nerds. Well done, very balanced, I'm sure this will improve your standing in the community at large...

[@ethribin4188]

This is the dumbest part of civ6 to me. The cost increase over time. Its so dumb and rediculous.

[@romoxes]

😊

[@JohnWittle]

yeah uhh i am all for acceptance and tolerance of different design philosophies and 'different strokes for different folks' and all that but this is just fucking terrible game design and it really seems like civ6 is just fundamentally unserious i was a big civ4 guy when civ5 came out, so i am familiar with elitist nostalgia change-aversion feelings and how they can sometimes lead people down the wrong path, make them incorrectly assume that something is worse just because it's not what they're used to and i've been generally open to the idea that this is what happened with civ6, that i hated every second of the small time i gave to the game just because it was different but i was also a big SSBM player back when brawl first released, so i am just as keenly aware that sometimes, the new thing really is just plain bad, the players who defend the new thing really are just confused, and all talk of "toxic nostalgia" or "old school elitism" are just cope the more of your channel i watch, the more civ6 feels like the latter situation, not the former it's clear that firaxis did not put in any kind of effort to think about high level gameplay. that doesn't instantly prove civ6 sucks, of course; the melee devs had no idea what kind of impact any of their decisions would have on the competitive health of their game, and yet melee is one of the greatest competitive games out there but the non-deliberateness of design *does* mean that the playability of the game at high skill levels is essentially left to chance, and that means you can't just assume that it will be good. you have to admit that in principle, it's possible for randomly determined game balance to be bad game balance and this doesn't just look bad. it looks absolutely atrocious.

[@arjunadesire1792]

Isn’t this basic knowledge xd I guess I’ve played too much

[@matheusGMN]

I find it ridiculous that building a unit makes future units more expensive

[@Phlebas]

Ehh - I kind of get the reasoning behind it. A city in the ancient era isn't going to have nearly as much production as a city in the industrial era. A builder, for example, should have equal value regardless of the era, but if you don't have production scaling, builders just get relatively cheaper and cheaper. The other option would be to scale unit costs to researched technologies and civics (like they do with district costs), but I think that would encourage building a crapload of builders early on and saving them for later, which isn't very fun (you'd be missing out on more interesting things to build in the early eras).

[@kitten-inside]

Someone was *really* not fond of settler/worker pumps.

[@Rubix9006]

Am I the only person that can't stand listening to this guy on 1x speed and watch every single video on 1.25x speed or more, like it just feels so slow otherwise

[@bigperk345]

tik tok brain?

[@Rubix9006]

@bigperk345 literally never used tiktok, it's just this one guy, I like the content but damn every word is just so pronounced and doesn't flow into the next in a fast way, idk it's hard to describe

[@bubbadean2]

​@@Rubix9006 yeah it's tiktok brain

[@TheW83]

I thought the speed was fine, but he just puts a weird emphasis on too many words. It’s very strange to listen to.

[@kloklon]

a true connoisseur watches at 0.75% to savour the excellent content of the video even longer

[@IcarusMK22]

Good analysis but....this just makes me want to run away from civ.

[@Scheals]

shtep

[@nickb220]

tbh this game doesn't seem FUN lol, like calling a business textbook a novel

[@cptfwiffo]

Well, as a lecture this is a bit flat. It feels read out, which means it's missing enthousiasm and rythm. Don't let your AI telling you how to speak.

[@arzentvm]

youve been ai poisoned buddy, not everything is ai

[@ALittleMessi]

This is how he talks

[@cptfwiffo]

@@ALittleMessi no, this is how he reads. He can do better

[@Nasai1]

"Civ6 is a complicated game"... Civ6 is EU4 for babies

[@The_Man42]

NEEEEEERRRRRRRDDDD

[@The_Man42]

Cool vid tho

[@andre_warmeling]

Thanks for ruining the game for me!