Why Saxophone Lacquer Matters… It’s NOT how you think

Jay Metcalf explains the real reason why saxophone lacquer matters. #bettersax #saxophone
🎷Ultimate Saxophone Swab Kits: ➡︎ geni.us/swabs
🎁 Access the FREE BetterSax SHED with tons of sax lessons, pdf downloads and backing tracks HERE: bettersax.com/...
===========================
⚡️Featured BetterSax Gear
“Designed BY Saxophonists FOR Saxophonists”
===========================
🎷BetterSax Saxophones: ➡︎ geni.us/saxoph...
🎷BURNIN’ Mouthpieces: ➡︎ geni.us/Burnin
🎷Jazz Cut Reeds: ➡︎ geni.us/reed
🎷Must Have Accessories: bettersax.com/s...
🔥 Join the Reed Revolution and try the new BetterSax Jazz Cut Reeds HERE ➡ geni.us/reed
===========================
🎓Want to Study Saxophone with Jay Metcalf?
===========================
💪🏻Get lifetime access to BetterSax courses that have helped 10s of thousands of saxophonists at every level around the world ➡️ bettersax.com/...
🔥 Join the BetterSax Studio for personalized video feedback from Jay as well as new lessons and downloads every month ➡️ bettersax.com/c...
===========================
Connect with us!
===========================
IG: ➡︎ / bettersax
Tik Tok: ➡︎ / bettersax
Facebook: ➡︎ / bettersax
===========================
Subscribe and Listen to the BetterSax Podcast HERE:📱
===========================
➡︎Apple: apple.co/3rmr9no
➡︎Spotify: sptfy.com/OWAr
Our mission here at BetterSax is to help saxophone players improve steadily, while enjoying the process of learning. We aim to help people find sax gear for every budget that delivers exceptional value and performance.
This video is NOT sponsored. Some product links are affiliate links which means if you buy something we'll receive a small commission.
Disclaimer: Please see the link for our disclaimer policy for all of our videos on the BetterSax KZbin channel. bettersax.com/... This video and description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links and then buy something, I may receive a small commission. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

[@blakewojtysiak5424]

This video finally brought me peace with having lacquered saxophones😂 thank you Jay!

[@tripledad6577]

Hey Jay, and others. I also play an unlacquered tenor sax. I clean it is best possible from time to time without disassembling it (I'm not a technician). I use a toothbrush and regular toothpaste. What I do after cleaning, is put some wax on it. I use "Renaissance micro crystalline wax" it really helps in delaying the return of the green copper oxide spots (which I dislike). You don't see the wax, and its only a bit different to the touch. Hope this helps the "naked" sax players.

[@michaelhollister1472]

Actual repair tech here. I'll give you a little slurry we call "brass preserver." You mix water and dish detergent until you have fairly slick water, approximately 1:1(preferably dawn original, don't know why but it seems to work the best) Then, add Bar Keepers Friend just until you get a consistency of a half cooked pancake. Use it instead of toothpaste, and it will help keep the spots from reappearing longer. Just make sure to rinse it off when you're done.

[@tripledad6577]

@@michaelhollister1472 Sorry, bit late, but thanks for the advice. I'll certainly try it.

[@thewarhenk]

Absolutely right, Jay! One thing, though, if anyone does have an unlacquered horn, distilled vinegar is much gentler than lemon juice, and does a good job of removing verdigris spots with a Q-tip. I owned and loved a modern unlacquered horn and swapped after several years for the same horn, lacquered. I would never own another unlacquered horn. Although they look great, I can say from experience that the moisture not only causes nasty verdigris, but is destructive to springs and felts. If you tend to be a wet player, the condensate mixed with oxidized slorp runs down the rods and wreaks havoc as you say.

[@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton]

And precisely how, pray tell, does lacquer (basically, paint on non-moving parts) have ANYTHING to do with moving parts (rods, springs, ghosts of Coltrane, etc.)??? Or felts?

[@KristianJacksonmusic]

I use lighter fluid and a Q-tip. A tip I got from Stephen Howard. Works a treat.

[@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton]

@@KristianJacksonmusic I have been advised to use Naptha on my guitar's fretboard. Similar?

[@thewarhenk]

@@KristianJacksonmusic Steve is 'the man!'

[@thewarhenk]

@@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton just as Jay stated as well. Have you owned a non-lacquered horn, Jeff? the condensate/spittle leaks out of tone holes and onto the horn and flows down the rods. The green 'slorp' that's created fouls felts and springs, etc. Blotting dry a lacquered horn avoids this; the worst you'll get is easily cleaned water spotting.

[@EliahHoliday]

I bought an unlaquered TM 500SL. I use to have an old Conn 10m and loved the worn look of it and that is what inspired me to get an unlaquered horn. However the horn quickly blemishes, like from my first day of use. Perhaps it will develop a nice even patina over time but at the moment it's starting to look like it was salvaged off the sea floor. So something to consider in buying a new horn that is delacquered, it will not maintain that fresh out of the case even delacquered look for long. Good point you made about the springs, pivot screws, rollers.

[@ryangrill7322]

I just tried the lemon juice and salt mixture yesterday and I gotta say, it worked great. Was really easy to get in with a toothbrush and get the worst spots nice and clean. Less than 24 hours later, the paitina is already reformed and it looks great. I need to get a couple more spots I missed on some keys but the whole cleaning process took less than an hour. I didn't even need to remove the keys. I've disassembled horns before, but I felt the toothbrush was able to get into most nooks and crannies just fine. Cheers!

[@bettersax]

Good to hear this.

[@Kab-dh9wd]

I play a 40 year old Yamaha „Purple logo" that looks like I bought it new at the store this morning😂the sound is more important than the worn old school look:)

[@HQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQ]

And i play a cheap horn that has no lacquer, it has great sound, ergonomics and it's new much less under a $1k in store. You may never guess the name, but hint is... It's chinese (of course).

[@dominiquelouis9286]

@@xrgiok I bought a year ago a yamha yts-62 purple logo which must also be around 40 years old at the start it was lacquered then I sandblasted it (ultra fine sandblasting) and the sound of the sax was extraordinary without its lacquer the sound of the sax has much more harmonics and vibrates under the fingers it is one of the best sax I have owned I also sandblasted my study sax a yts-23 Yamaha result a breathtaking sound without its lacquer with much more harmonics. Is it personal or maybe Yamaha puts a lot of layers of lacquer on its sax?? For maintenance I use anti-oxide oil and when I have nasty stains I remove them with brass wool and my saxs are always impeccable and ... patinated!

[@matthieufritz2624]

The absolute best sounding saxophone I ever tried was a Yamaha 82 unlacquered alto... And I prefer the silver look myself, just don't really like the feel

[@iikpsyt4619]

I’m currently playing my school’s unlacquered PMB-300 Custom Class, and I can surely attest to the rust and corrosion you talked about. This horn has seen the elements many times which has surely amplified the effects, but every single spring has rust along with largely worn sections of the horn from where I pick it up.

[@ryangrill7322]

Thanks for this! I have an unlaquered PMauriat Tenor and Bari and I get the verdigris spots. Thanks for the cleaning tips

[@saxrem]

I play both Yamaha 82Z lacquered and Unlaquered (UL82z) tenor and alto saxophones for 20 years. Love the sound of the Yamaha's , but I really find there is a difference in sound! The lac horns have more power and edge in the sound, the unlacquered are more mellow and are more easy blowing.

[@KenYamaguchi-sg5zr]

Very interesting. Thank You. I see the funky appeal of unlaquered horns but since there is no improvement in sound, your great points about maintenance speak to the many advantages of a lacquered horn. Thanks for ending that debate!

[@GuyVanLoocke]

I play a lacquered Selmer for 7 years. I maintain it well and swipe it after having played. Vintage looks very cool but I prefer the lacqered now ! Thanks for the video Jay ! Very interesting ! Guy

[@saxmaniac6321]

Aww man, what a great video! I didn’t realise you’re a sax tech as well as an awesome teacher!! I’m in the UK and my tech is Rupert Noble (who has become a great friend over the past 20 years!). He’s totally cool and repairs many of the UK greats’ saxes. I’m currently blowing a 1954 Keilwerth New King with the lucite keyguards even though I keep blowing for a few weeks and then not and then a few weeks - done that for a few years now coz of my work commitments but, hey ho, there’s plenty of real pros out there keeping the torch lit 🔥 Thanks for all your vids! Awesome 🙌🏻🎷💙💜

[@BillColletti]

Can you share the salt/lemon juice recipe? What is the ratio of water:salt:juice? It appears to be more effective at removing the patina than a product like Brasso. Thanks!

[@AmelianaTSIIX]

That's interesting, i have heard the same thing from trombone players. The metal is so thick that lacquer makes practically no difference in sound. However, as a french horn player, the metal is a lot thinner, and you can tell immediately the difference, so much so that I actually had the lacquer stripped from my horn after playing one without. But nearly all other instruments I would go with lacquered.

[@TobiasLeonHaecker]

I also tested a lot of brand new instruments same model different finishes (with multiple brands, at stores, conventions, trade shows and factory's) and found the difference in sound quite noticeable. Always same tendencies between the finishes. They are not big, but definitely not negligible when someone is looking for his right instrument as a professional/advanced player. Personally, I like Instruments, where the body is unlacquered but the keys are lacquered. The green stuff is copper oxide, a salt, that is water soluble. It oxidate at places where it's constantly wet (at the key parts where's often salvia and on those stress parts (the bow connection) where there's a bigger difference in electronegativity. That also explains, why the springs and everything else corrodes way faster, since the whole instrument (the bare metal of it) is in way more contact with the oxygen. (I've studied chemistry in a different life)

[@jazznutz]

Great useful video. Thanks Jay. I'm also reminded to swab more often to every time i play i get lazy.

[@redowlranchairfield5994]

I agree especially on the tone question. So many people claim the sound difference but I've never heard it. They should just be willing to say they like the way it looks. I don't. I'll stick with lacquer thank you very much. But it's OK to like the look. Thanks for putting yourself out there on this contrarian viewpoint.

[@MarkPeotter]

I have played on both types of saxes and, yes, I notice the same tone difference every time. See my longer comment above.

[@DrDaab]

The difference is likely whether you play the instrument or you listen to a recording, or listen to another person play the instrument. The reason is likely to be that you feel some vibration in your hands/body, which the person just listening does not experience.

[@redowlranchairfield5994]

@@DrDaab While I can see the empiricism in your reply and applaud it, I respectfully disagree. I believe the difference is in the head of the listener who will always hear what they expect to hear. I've seen this argument for many years now with many different instruments and never have I heard the difference. I will say that no two people play the same horn the same - so it could be unconscious input from the player as well although again I've never heard it myself. I've always thought it was just "your ear is weak if you can't hear it - all us cool cats hear plain as day." We seethe effect of that kind of thing in society at large these days why should musicians be exempt from human weakness?

[@gsco82]

Thanks for a very interesting video. I have owned and played 8 or 9 different saxophones, and none of them were unlacquered. I am happy with the lower effort needed to maintain a lacquered saxophone . Plus I prefer the general appearance.

[@walterw2]

let's hear it for the algorithm! i'm a guitar player who knows bupkis about sax but i know all about the obsession with musical instruments "looking old" even when they're not my first thought after understanding from this video that the unlacquered horn can have problems with the mechanicals was why not have the body itself unlacquered for that cool look but keep the finish on all the moving bits attached to it?

[@bettersax]

Interesting idea.

[@uTubeMiester]

I actually Custom ordered this look I have Yani altos and tenors Body unlacquered but anything that gets screwed on are lacquered keys and guards

[@jamesdaviddupre99]

Nice lesson. Thanks. My soprano, alto, & spare tenor are all lacquered, but my favorite tenor is not. Patina shmatina, I just like the truer pitch and the tonality/timbre that sings out so well.

[@cindithom7600]

Thanks keilwerth, that was some great info. I have a 1923 Martin “C” melody the is getting new pads so I will keep this in mind

[@Desperation_Personafied]

Can’t wait for the better sax Bari, burnin mouthpiece, and ligature.

[@kouch_Sax]

Oh my god, in what category does this video fit; It is informative entertaining saxophone spesialist content❤❤❤

[@marike1100]

Studied with John Purcell at MSM and looking at saxophones, he recommended that lacquered was the way to go as un-lacquered saxes tend to produce a sound that’s a bit spread vs the more focused, centered sound of a lacquered sax. These differences are not always obvious but they do exist.

[@avon57]

Very interesting, thanks, Jay.

[@timburdick3031]

Thanks for this. 50 years in the woodwind repair business and I've heard all the myths. The outside finish of an instrument has nothing to do with the sound. The bore is everything.

[@kwstine1]

Really great info. Thanks Jay!

[@MrFidelios]

Very interesting video Mr. J! I have a very old tenor Yamaha 23 which I had de-lacquered (only the body. All the Action is chime finish still) a few years ago. I also have a 40 y/o Selmer which still has the original lacquered finish. I was thinking of relacquering the Yamaha now that it has a nice petima before it starts turning green and corroding more…. In principle, the look should be the same (not shiny polished) but aged with petina, only now protected form the outside elements…. What do you think?

[@paulgeiger6177]

This is so true with the new un lacquered saxophones! Cheap nasty brass will do this! My old Selmer has no lacquer and doesn’t look like this! Anyhow what do I know about this topic! Thanks for showing! Cheers

[@JLAGAN49]

At last!!! A video that makes me love my lacquered student horns. Is that flux bleed through at the bell joint perhaps ???

[@kalanumalalanayake8995]

Thanks Jay, you are a superstar. ❤

[@michaelwalters4690]

I have been playing a Selmer SBA tenor that never had much lacquer for 50 years (serial 47xxx) and have not had to deal with any extra maintenance because of the lacquer. Also have been playing a Selmer Mark VI low Bb bari that was never lacquered for about 45 years again not needing extra maintenance. How the lack of lacquer affects the tone is a point that people argue both ways but don’t worry about your unlacquered horns and their upkeep.

[@onichimmy]

I’m so hyped for the bettersax soprano, burnin soprano mouthpiece, and burning ligature! I can’t wait!

[@bettersax]

Burnin’ soprano mouthpiece coming in December!

[@davidprince1590]

Hey Jay. I have a lacquered Selmer Paris Mark VII tenor that I bought new in 1977. It now looks unlacquered, but I have always loved the sound and the way it plays. My question is this: What is your opinion on having a horn such as mine relacquered?

[@jorymil]

Lots of folks claim anecdotally that delacquering a horn makes a horn sound better, but don't back it up. Now if your lacquer is patchy, it might look better delacquered, but these days, it's so thin it doesn't matter. Older instruments that had thick epoxy lacquer added 10-15% to the metal thickness; it's possible that stuff made a difference, but plenty of people sounded good with it on. Ultimately the thicker the material, the less energy loss.

[@JohnnyLegato6M]

Jay, I enjoy fine vintage saxophones, mostly from the late '20's through the '40s. I prefer that they play, sound, and LOOK like the fine crafts people INTENDED. Therefore, I prefer nice lacquer. Re-lacs done right are fine, 90%+ original is more desirable. Also, has anyone considered that brass often contains LEAD, not just the solder but in the brass alloy itself. That's right, play those old no-laquer horns and get a little lead poisoning through your skin as a bonus.

[@robertp2934]

@JohnnyLegato6M You are correct sir. Brass used in musical instruments usual contains about 2-3% lead and lead is toxic to humans and animals. Even reduced lead brass typically contains about 2%. Basic brass is ~67% copper & 33% zinc but this varies considerably and affects the timbre. Will I stop playing my horns? Never! Thanks for this concise video, Jay.

[@saxplayer1004]

during a full overhaul when all corks/felts are removed you could put the body in a pickling bath which is used after silver soldering which would take care of the entire body. The horn will have undergone a pickling bath during initial construction but you would have to have all of the springs/corks/felts/etc removed and I doubt the key touches would appreciate it. The salt and lemon juice is effectively the same thing

[@S_R1117-m7m]

God I love that unlaquered look so much! it adds so much character to the instrument. Really hope I can get my Custom Z delaquered in a few years.

[@abrogard142]

Summary: Unlaquered corrode much more easily. A real pain. My take-away: if you like unlaquered: spray it with some kind of protective film when you get it. I asked gpt and got these suggestions: Protective options for unlaquered saxophones to help prevent corrosion. Some common solutions include: Corrosion Inhibitor Sprays: These sprays are designed to form a thin, transparent barrier on metal surfaces to protect against moisture and oxidation. Products like WD-40 Specialist Corrosion Inhibitor or T-9 Boeshield can be applied to the saxophone’s surface. Be cautious with these sprays, as they can sometimes leave a residue that may affect tone or handling if not carefully applied. Microcrystalline Wax: Products like Renaissance Wax are often used on brass instruments, antiques, and metal parts because they provide a thin, non-tacky, and long-lasting layer of protection. This wax can be buffed to a shine, adding a protective layer that resists moisture and oxidation. Silica Gel Packs: Storing silica gel packs in the saxophone case can help absorb excess moisture, reducing the risk of corrosion. While this won’t coat the instrument, it can help control the environment, especially in high-humidity areas. Regular Cleaning and Oiling: Applying a thin layer of oil, such as key oil or other non-corrosive oils, and wiping down the saxophone regularly can help reduce oxidation on untreated brass. I didn't like all that so I enquired further and cited the old days when they were always habitually trying to protect brass. I got these answers which I like better: Oil-Impregnated Cloth: Brass and bronze items were often rubbed down with cloths that had been lightly impregnated with a protective oil, such as linseed or olive oil. This would help repel moisture and slow oxidation. Musicians sometimes used oil-treated cloths or “oiling cloths” to keep their instruments from tarnishing. Waxing: Another common method, still used today, involved applying a thin layer of natural wax, like beeswax. The wax was rubbed on and buffed to create a subtle, protective sheen that kept moisture from reaching the metal surface. This method was popular because it was affordable and didn’t affect the tone of brass instruments. Brass Polish with Mild Abrasives: In times past, a gentle brass polish (sometimes made with vinegar and flour or lemon juice and salt) would be used to remove tarnish, followed by a protective oil or wax coating. This method required regular upkeep but worked well to keep the metal’s appearance vibrant. Mineral Oil Rub: This was especially common in seafaring regions, where brass and bronze were exposed to salty air. Rubbing a thin layer of mineral oil on the metal after cleaning helped to seal it against the harsh marine environment. My inclination would be a linseed oil/beeswax mix about 1 by weight wax to 3 or 4 oil. A cloth impregnated with this and used to give a quick rub after a session followed by a rub with a clean cloth will apply a thin coating that will not feel oily or sticky - will be unnoticeable but will prevent tarnish. Similarly tarnished spots in hard to get to places can be cleaned as shown in the vid and with pads on a stick and such and then rubbed afterward this way - a soft cloth can obviously be pushed into any hard to get places using some kind of a stick: toothbrush handle maybe? cleaning rod?

[@tripledad6577]

The renaissance wax works great for me

[@abrogard142]

@@tripledad6577 just be aware and careful perhaps of the white spirit component which might require in those with sensitive skin the use of gloves when applying and perhaps for all users a sufficient time period after application to allow complete outgassing before using the instrument. Not that the risk of inhalation would be great, I guess, as we blow through the instrument rather than inhale. I'd be inclined to make my own mix of linseed oil and beeswax myself. just a little tedious and requiring a little care warming and mixing but nothing I can't handle: I've done it in the past making leather soaps. The white spirit mix will dry quicker and leave a hard wax coat while the oil mix will dry slower and polymerises rather than dries out. The spirit mix drying quicker would sooner give a 'no tacky' finish and have less propensity to capture dust. So that would seem out of these two options ( there are others of course, more complicated.. ) the 'best' but I'd still prefer the oil. But I wouldn't be 'laying it on'. Just have a cloth impregnated with it, a 'swab cloth' and run it over the instrument after a session is all. Such a fine layer tackiness and dust problem don't apply. Just saying. My horns are all lacquered, its all theory to me. :)

[@JudasiPaladin]

The green that appears on unlacquered saxes is just copper oxide. It's not dirty but can look unsightly. Vinegar is less harsh than lemon juice unless it's diluted. Salt will act as an abrasive but as the patina comes back naturally it should be fine xx

[@melissaluecke2220]

I know it might be a little expensive but you should do a review of the Selmer Paris Series III Baritone Saxophone - Jubilee - Silver Plated

[@howardherrnstadt7367]

I polished just the neck on my Model 47 SML alto and it seemed to me the sound of the horn improved from top to bottom. So I polished my tenor neck as well. The alto overall has a nice amber color except for the side of the bell where it rests on my thigh during rehearsal breaks. There, it's shiny like new. Obviously lacqered. I believe a clean neck vibrates more freely. Your thoughts?

[@jairchavez5193]

I did something similar with my Eastman 52nd street alto. Not only did I used lemon juice like you did I also used a metal polish cleaner called flitz metal polish. I was wanting to see how my alto would look like freshly polished as supposed to when I got it used already having a heavy patina over it. The whole process took me around two days from figuring out how to take my alto apart from the first time to fully polishing it and finally putting it back together. Keep in mind I am not a professional saxophone repairman and I wanted to see how far I could get before finally taking it to the repair shop. The end results were great in terms of how freshly polished I had gotten my alto to be, there were still some spots of patina and green markings on it but what are you gonna do. As for putting it back together the whole process took me around 5 or 6 hours I want to say. I had started putting it back together at 7 in the afternoon and I didn't finish until about 1am. The alto played the exact same as it did before only now it had a more cleaner polished look. I would not recommend to do this unless you have experience as saxophone technician.

[@patrickgriffiths2628]

Hi Jay , Patrick here . I've got a yamaha 62 with about 20% lacquer and all i did was rubbed the spots with fine steelwool then the hole horn with WD40 on a cloth. Worked great no damage to anything.

[@bettersax]

Does your horn smell like WD-40 now though? That would be a major issue for me.

[@patrickgriffiths2628]

@@bettersax No Jay , It smells only for a day or two till it dry"s.And its only on the outside The steelwool works great aswell,not to abrasive.I smoothout all the chips between the lacquere and brass

[@rmillerhighlife]

Great video. Any tips on how to clean / polish my silver Yamaha?

[@michaeldonofrio1921]

I have an unlaquered Yamaha YAS82Z that is about 7 years old, I also have a laquered YAS875 built about 1992, so it's over 30 years old. Unlaquered horn looks like its 50 years old and worn, laquered looks like I bought it last week. Both horns play great.

[@marc-antoinesavard7726]

Interesting, got my horn used 5 years ago. It is unlacquered, somewhat clean and has no green spot with no special maintenance. BUT: - It is my only horn. - It's pretty much always out of the case. - It gets played almost daily. Your mileage may vary by a lot depending on your usage and environment!

[@bepsays]

1) I own a Yamaha 82z unlacquered tenor from 2007; I see no corrosion/green issues. 2) I have test played gold plated, silver plated and unlacquered versions of Yamaha 82z alto and they confirm what I hear from the tenor: They are very different sounding instruments, the unlacquered one being the wildest/most vintage sounding of them.

[@glenntomassi3442]

Ah great video. Would you consider relaquering the horn?

[@stevetakkinkwan8910]

Good info, thanks

[@arslankhaydarov7297]

Hello Jay Thank you for all your videos and hard work. Could you please tell me your thoughts or maybe even do a video about Julius Keilwerth saxophones? I have a JK SX90 Shadow model tenor sax and it is an awesome saxophone. I use two mouthpieces Jody Jazz DV 7 and Meyer regular one. Thank you.

[@Ryosuke324]

When i was in cuba back in the 90s i used Blanco Espain,was really good,imediatelly polished.and its cheap

[@arbeiter11]

But if you play a silver or a golden chu berry, for me it makes a difference in sound. So if you have a unlaquerd it also have a differtent in free blowing/ more dark-ruff....yes, i know its about 10% or less, but it matters for me.

[@ChrisTurnerDublin]

Thanks Jaz. A very useful video!

[@ChrisTurnerDublin]

Oops, I had my German keyboard setting switched on. If you type Jay, it comes out as Jaz

[@trumpettradesman]

I notice this with my raw brass trumpet. Good info, thank you

[@jerrybrown66]

I like the satin finish some brands offer because it's a compromise between an unlacquered look and low maintenance.

[@marcowenzel8889]

Dear Jay. This Video ist very interesting for me. I have a Selmer Super Action II Tenorsax about 35 years old. When I bought it new that time is was shining. Now. after all these years it does not look so good anymore. I bought a new Yamaha altosax last year so when I see both instruments together I always think about having the old sax revarnished to make it look like a new instrument. What do you think? Should I do it? There are many people with different opinions. Some people like the vintage look of the instrument and say that it is worth more money as it looks now. I, myself find the new golden colour of my new alstosax more beautiful. Of course this is also a question of gusto. How much do you think can it cost to varnish a Tenor Sax? Cheers Marco

[@bettersax]

The trouble with relacquering a saxophone is that it needs to get buffed to remove the old lacquer completely. The process needs to be done with great care and then the horn needs to be rebuilt. Doing it right will be expensive and it won't add that value to the horn itself if you were to resell it. I would recommend people keep their vintage horns vintage, and buy new ones if they want them to look new and shiny. Will cost less in the end anyway.

[@marcowenzel8889]

@@bettersax Dear Jay, Thanks for your advice. I will do so and leave the horn like it is.

[@HamalonHamilton]

Thank you for the very informative video.

[@themh61]

using ballistol to clean and maintain the horn prevents the formation of these green spots. I do this successfully since many years with my unlacquered horns

[@HQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQHQ]

How much time does it take? And what's left on the surface of the instrument?

[@Chriscraft50]

That has a distinct smell, no? I use it on my firearms. I have a few from 1700's in bare metal. Ballistol is one of those old school things that just works great. 👍

[@kooky74]

Thanks flor the info. ❤

[@kennyadvocat]

Should I get the lacquer removed from my vintage selmer VI bari?

[@TWO20]

Do you have any explanation as to how your TWO2’s patina is so dark? The neck of my TWO20 is mostly stripped of its lacquer from heavy wear and the patina is quite a bit lighter than yours, even though it’s the same bronze.

[@bartus9891]

It is a form of galvanic corrosion that is happening on the springs and other hardware

[@DynamixWarePro]

I think unlacquered saxophones may have slightly more highs in the sound than lacquered, but its minor. I prefer lacquer as I don't like the tarnished look of an unlacquered saxophone or the metallic smell than can appear on your hands from handling one that has tarnished. While I like lacquered saxophones more, I have a Yanagisawa AWO2 and I am not sure what they did with the lacquer, but its pitting in places with the worst of it on the left hand thumb rest. I know others have mentioned the pitting lacquer on yani's WO saxophones.

[@ParanoidGoblinoid]

I use lime juice on the green spots on my new, unlacquered Yamaha. I think it’s important to get at these ASAP so that the metal doesn’t become pitted.

[@Xavia_Dimoff]

I left this type of comment on one of Jay's videos about a year ago, and he responded by laughing at me. Now, he see's that there is a reason the corrosion needs to go...

[@JurgenWurgen-ot4fd]

Can you make a vid about keilwerth?

[@nickglass12]

You didn’t talk about sound difference. I had a Conn Bari from the 1920s, unlacquered, that had a very big sound but I sold it to get a low A bari.

[@michaelbereckis]

Sehr schön formuliert!

[@geoffcsax]

Great video, important sax information 👍 🎷

[@stevel6895]

my sentiments exactly!

[@noobert7107]

Will there ever be a Better Sax Soprano, if so when will it be projected to be released?

[@bettersax]

Yes! Coming early 2025.

[@AwsamNick]

I'm thinking about getting the Burnin' mouthpiece for bari, does anyone recommend a certain reed that works well with it?

[@Anonymous-u8r8j]

Whatever you normally play would probably work. You should consider top opening though. If you are going from a small tip opening mouthpiece (most student mouthpieces) to a burnin with a larger tip opening, you will want to use more flexible reeds in order to account for it.

[@AwsamNick]

@@Anonymous-u8r8j Thanks! I'm using Vandoren blue boxes on my regular classical mouthpeice, but I know they work well with some jazz ones. Ill take that into account 👍

[@bettersax]

Until we release the BetterSax Jazz Cut reeds for bari, you can try D'addario Select Jazz and Vandoren Java reeds. They will both work well. Good luck with the new mouthpiece!

[@alfabsc]

What gets me is you pay extra for unlacquered. 🤔 Thanks for your always helpful advice.

[@AsasjaKa]

i usaually would take saxes that are laquered but in my opinion it doesn’t really matter i just like laquered ones more (mostly bc of looks for concerts and so😅)

[@matta5348]

I do love the UNlacquered look, but I couldn’t possibly justify all that extra maintenance (and expense since I wouldn’t do it myself.) I’d rather spend the time practicing, and the money on beer.🍻 🎷

[@mikefasig3431]

What is wutter? I had a black lacquer put on my Mark VI back in the 80s after seeing Keilwerths in Germany. In those days image was important and the band I played with wanted a black sax player.

[@rielzuad7028]

If you don't want your horn to develop those green gunk apply coconut oil on the brass it will protect it but don't keep the horn on stand put it in case when not in use because it gathers dust so fast because of oil

[@EricPalmerBlog]

Cool cleaning trick. Love it. Weigh the quantity of lacquer that would be sprayed onto a new horn. The horn without lacquer should weigh less. 😅😅😅

[@kylejordan7454]

Miracle Cloth would polish that back to a nice shine. It's basically a cloth with coconut oil... it smells awesome, but more importantly works great. Just wipe/buff with a microfiber after. I'm just starting out as a repair tech so take my advice with a big grain of salt, but for the lime on the horn I would just use this stuff called Alisyn which is a solvent, wipe that it off, and then polish the whole thing with miracle cloth. I might even give it a bath if It was really bad on the inside. I'm only saying this not because I think my way is better but idk If you are aware of these things and you might want to know. If you do know of them I would be curious as to why you don't use them.

[@alicoat]

Jay is probably right I have unlacquered bari sax I love its looks but my next sax would be lacquered.

[@robm.1009]

Interesting video Jay as usual always helpful, but this brings up something I heard you float a while back, creating a saxophone repair course. I have looked on line and there are some out there, but are they legit? You have earned my trust over the years, and I would be very interested in such a course!

[@sasxkm343]

Hi Jay, just wondering how many Kg for your TWO2 UL? Im currently stay with my T800 and its quite heavy for me. Thank you

[@gib321]

I have a matt finish and an unlacquered horn. Love them both. Do I have your permission to show this video to my wife in support of my case for getting a shinny new lacquered horn.

[@bettersax]

haha if you think it will help.

[@pb5690]

I can't say that I notice any tonal difference between lacquer or un-lacquered. The best cleaner I've found is citric acid and Dawn Dish Dashing liquid, it removes all tarnish just by soaking. Yes, you do need to remove the keys for the most effective cleaning. That's why the lemon salt worked well; lemon contains citric acid. The bigger issue seems to be red rot, I play a 99 year old Buescher True Tone alto and I believe the bare brass tends to develop red spots, which is zinc leaching out of the original alloy probably due to exposure to oxygen and it looks like there are a few red spots on your Yani, but can't say for sure without seeing it up close.

[@LuisArmienta]

If yours is a Yanagisawa A992 or T992 it has been fabricated with a different metal alloy which include around 1% phosforus because of its different tonal quality it sound darker than the lackered A991 and T991 and also is a litttle heavier because there is more cupper in it. The green "dust" protects the Brass from further oxidation. The screws all are made of stainless steel they do not rust although they look like it. Lacker is applied for a better look and to protect them from oxidation no difference in sound beacause of the lacker. I think your video, with all your respect , is more about our perception of how they look which may not be a factor at the time of playing but I have to agree with you that lackerd sax has a more positive impact in the audience. Anyway thanks for bringing this subject because I do have a Yanagisawa Sax unlackered and a Selmer lackered and I was wondering why they sound and weighted different of course many other factors are involved since they are a different brand. Anyway thanks.

[@dvez7542]

What about sound? How does it affect the sound?

[@jameschristiansson3137]

I wonder if any of the tarnish free copper alloys would be suitable for saxophone production. No lacquer needed to stay looking good.

[@SelimcanSakar]

I know Jay is from NYC living in FR Riviera, but I can swear he sounds Dutch

[@stephenross9892]

I dropped my lacquered Schagerl 66 during a lesson, and my instructor gave me his unlacquered Schagerl 66 to play. The only difference I noticed was the weight, which I felt to be significantly less on his horn.

[@dudemaster8575]

Silver nickel plated or just raw brass instrument looks more stable after couple years. And in solder work or bending instrument lacquer often damaged.

[@chajax]

Do a short video to show us your sax collection sometime🎉

[@derek_williams]

Hi Jay. Is there corrosion on the tone holes that affects pad seating?

[@bettersax]

no, that isn't normally an issue, but you will get some on the inside of the tone hole chimneys which needs to be removed when the keys are off.

[@unclemick-synths]

This was an interesting video. The aged look is definitely more authentic than those Fender Custom Shop limited edition guitars. The fakery on those looks fake compared to genuine "road rash" which is a pity because the FCS Jazz basses I tried were _very_ nice to play so I'd love to have one that's un-distressed. Back to the sax, my one concern with unlaquered brass is my understanding is that verdigris is toxic. Not that I'd be licking the instrument but I'd be more careful to wash my hands if there's food at the gig!

[@valentinconus8442]

I heard from a student that vert-de-gris might be toxic. He had his mark VI re-lacquered for this particular reason. Let's stay healthy and wear a Ben Webster hat for the vintage looks :)

[@serzok1]

And I think that green stuff is poisonous too, right? Not good if you touch it or breath it. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[@AramcoPhil]

Hey Jay, while i bought a laquered tenor, i've had an extended break (a few years during University) where the laquer on certain parts of the horn were almost eaten away, probably from residual moisture within the (closed) case... Btw, with you mentioning the Burning ligature, what ligatures would you currently reccomend for the Burnin Tenor? I cant really find anything that fits well.. The Rovner dark is too loose, the "classic" metal ligatures are too tight, my local store did not have anything that fit well..

[@bettersax]

Any ligature that fits a standard Otto Link or Meyer or Vandoren hard rubber tenor mouthpiece will fit the Burnin' tenor. The D'Addario H (HTS1G) ligature is a good option while you await the release of the Burnin'.

[@AramcoPhil]

@bettersax perfect thanks 👍 I'll try and get one of those for the time being

[@jonkerjw]

Could a manufacturer pre-age the metal and then lacquer it? That might be the best of both worlds; an aged look without shine, but with a protective layer.

[@2mytho]

I have a saxophone that’s painted black and the paint is peeling off. If the paint peels off is it unprotected?

[@bettersax]

the spots where the lacquer flakes off will be exposed and the brass will oxidize yes.

[@MarkPeotter]

@BetterSax Jay - this video is from the perspective of the repair person, mixed with too much talk about how it looks. I have played many lacquered and un-lacquered saxes. TONE OPINIONS - Without lacquer the timbre does not change much when going from a soft to loud dynamic. With the old standard amount of lacquer, such as my Mark 6, the timbre moves to brighter as you get louder. With the new, darker, or heavy lacquer, the timbre does not change much from soft to loud, and the overall timbre is not as bright as with no lacquer. CONCLUSION - LACQUER DOES AFFECT THE TONE.

[@glendenig9962]

Agreed!