Why "Scimitars" Don't Exist

[@IPostSwords]

I was somewhat lax with my word choice in this video. So, to be fair, its more like "historically rooted linguistic laziness entrenched in historic xenophobia which has persisted to the modern day" rather than outright racism. but that is a lot of words and words are hard

[@samial1733]

you are wrong. Talwar just means sword lol educate yourself

[@IPostSwords]

That is how loanwords work. "Shamshir" also just means sword, as does kilic. But when used as a loanword on English, the meaning becomes specific to the sword of the culture from which the word is loaned.

[@BerylLx]

Aesthetically, I'd say the overall blade shape that artists picture when they hear/think "scimitar" is actually the falchion. What a beautifully ironic full circle.

[@divineglitch9550]

pretty cool scimitar collection you have there.

[@ShuajoX]

In modern nomenclature at least, I have almost never seen the word "sabre" used to refer to curved swords in general, but it is almost always used to specifically refer to European or at least European influenced swords (American, Japanese kyu gunto, etc.) Exceptions include the "Turko-Mongol Saber" and the occasional dao. I can think of period writings referring to Japanese swords as sabres and cutlasses. Many people today refer to all Japanese swords as "katana" beyond the uchigatana, even when speaking in Japanese (albeit for different reasons). A lot of this boils down to the fact that people just used the word for "sword"/"single-edged sword"/"double-edge sword" and weren't as obsessed with distinction and typology. That trait came from our Victorian forbears. Trying to introduce sword/sabre into English as a distinction akin to the Chinese terms jian/dao just doesn't work because the words are often used interchangeably. See the controversies over the name of the M1913 Patton saber. Scimitar is simply an exonym, born of corruptions of the original term shamshir, as most loan words are. Nothing more, nothing less. People then saw similar looking swords from that region and applied the same name. Much like American settlers named the native birds "turkeys" for resembling a type of Old World fowl from Turkey itself. Cipangu, thanks to Marco Polo and a long game of linguistic telephone, ended up as Japan in English, a name not native to the Japanese language, which nobody in Japan has a problem with (in fact, they embrace it). And moreover, Cipangu isn't even the word for Japan in Japanese. Should we be saying Nippon/Nihon instead? Or writing it in kanji proper? The English "sabre/saber" looks almost nothing like the Hungarian "szablya", just like how "scimitar" doesn't closely resemble "shamshir". In turn, China and Japan sometimes write America with the characters for "Rice Country" instead of writing "America" phonetically. All of this is borne of no more and no less cultural laziness and ignorance than the term scimitar. The point of language is to make yourself understood. Scimitar functions fine linguistically for laymen, not for us pedants who focus on specific typologies. I am just delighted people outside of the sword community even know of words beyond "sword" at all. There are far more poor sword terms out there like "viking sword" and "ninja sword".

[@alpgiraygomlekli8391]

The Turkish word ''kilij" it's actually written "kılıç" means swords and it's used for all types of sword like you said. Yatagan ( yatağan is a iron mining and blacksmithing town and given the name of this sword type ) is actually twin sword used like Roman Damachaerus, and is for horse riding and harsh impacts in battles, because of that yatagans' handles end is shaped like ram horns or like knuckles. That way when you impact sword doesn't go off your hand . Yalmanli ( yalmanlı ) is a curved sword with thick tip with both edge like clip point bowie knives ( in Turkish yalman means that clip point and the yalmanlı means like kilij that have clip point ) and it's excellent for cutting and slicing back and forward with moving just your wrists or your slightly upper body movements and usually used with "kalkan" which is Turkish round shields. "Karabela" means "black or dark trouble". Historically, the blades are damascus steel and made with "Turkish twist" technique but the blade patterns are invisible without the etching proccess. Handles are generally wood but buffalo horn is much preferred these days, because buffalo horn handles provides the most safe grip when your hand is wet and doesn't get soft like wood. Handle tips are like bended egg or door knob shape and that's also for easy wrist motion with secure grip in battle. Thank you for this video I am Turkish and mostly this kind of videos are like "two thousand variety of western swords but Turkish swords are just like Persian or Arab swords and they named all the same." Actually this Turkish sword styles are very ancient and their origin is Hun and Gokturk Khaganate and early Turkic cultures. It's spread from Middle Asia with Huns to as far as Hungary, with Gokturks as far as China and India, with Scythians ( which is considered Turkic ) to Persia and Middle East. And their culture is also influenced with these blade and sword types. Like Turkic- Mongol archery style that is unique in thumb rings ( made with deer,elk, buffalo or ram horn, wood or semiprecious stone rings ) drawing technique, horsebow making and arrow tip making culture has become influence for other Asia archery cultures. Sorry for grammar mistakes if I had one.

[@BlackDidThis]

A brief but exceptionally detailed description of a variety of blades inherited by the Turkish culture... I must personally thank you for the effort and attention. I may argue of the Turkic origins of the blade as historians/scholars have been in debate on the matter for decades and even with their vast knowledge: They fail to correctly pinpoint much of the influence and usage. But even these scholars have a common conclusion that in the Turkish culture the word "sword"" alone has a vital and even sacred meaning. Not only has the kılıç been undergoing many engineered variations for centuries due to function (And to my personal view: nailing it)... The context f the Turkish culture simply lived off "living by the sword" as it is even still very obvious in modern literature/daily speech. Thank you so much for the time you have shared (In very adequate English) and I feel I also owe a great big thanks to IPostSwords for posting the first video I have seen on this subject at this well presented pace. Being Turkish myself it means a lot to me in person when such "linguistic" classification is attempted to be rectified. Have a great day both you good gentlemen

[@Behemoth713]

Because Yatagan being a blacksmith town, it's expected to manufacture many different steel products including different swords. But Yatagan isn't something you say. You are describing. I can't imagine such a short sword being used as a cavalry weapon. It's something to used by infantry and marine soldiers. Especially it was popular among marines because of its being short and extremely good to use in tight space. Also if you use Yatagan on horseback even if someone have Yatagan long enough, he will broke his wrist. Also there is a reason for Turkish cavalry swords being kulaklı.

[@MadNumForce]

The problem with linguistics prescriptivism is that it rarely considers linguistic realities. Not all people hugely care about swords. Not all people have vast amounts of free time to teach themselves about niche aspects of useless antique items. If you bind everyone to use a very specific terminology, what you're saying is that your standards should be everyone's standards. Scimitar is a lose term that is used by the general public who's not aware of all the nitpicky details there are to know, but you can't say it doesn't make sense. Even though I also find it kind of weird, using the word "scimitar" for a yataghan is still more relevant than the very nature of the word "tree". We have a word to refer to just any kind of plant that is somewhat lignified and over a certain size. We can have a word that refers to curved orientalish swords. It's just not very specific (but still much more than "tree"). Imagine if every specialist in every field was nitpicky about the vocabulary used by the general public (and we're all part of the general public on 98% of topics and fields), there just wouldn't even be a language at all. And swords enthusiasts naturally get to educate themselves, as the words "kilij", "yataghan", "shamshir", "pulwar", "tulwar" are all floating around and the info pretty accessible. To newcomers, it might take some corrections for example to make the difference between a pulwar and a tulwar, but otherwise the education seems to be working. Educated people tend to use the proper terms, scimitar is kind of intrinsically a term used by the general public. And frankly, to most people calling both a kilij and a pulwar a scimitar, a Polish karabela will also be a scimitar. But there's a kind of funnier situation: how English people refuse to call French straight cavalry swords "sabre", but instead want to label them as "palash". That being caused by English spelling being completely wonky, and using the French spelling while it's pronounced like "saber", but as the meaning has diverged in French and English, the English use being exclusively for a curved blade, they refuse to apply it to the French straight blade swords. It's funny how Matt Easton gets angry at the idea that in French, a sabre can have either a straight or a curved blade, and also thinks the word is useless then (yet he still doesn't have an issue with the word "tree" either). But it's obvious that it still needs a specific term, and for god knows what reason, they just grabbed it in German, entirely ignoring that there is a French colloquial term to refer to these: "latte". We end up in a situation where people actually educated on swords call an iconically French type of sword by a German term, while rejecting the "proper" French word, while using the French spelling for the word that should be spelled "saber".

[@MrPanos2000]

I read your comment and I agree about your main point, you are correct in that the general public simply doesnt give a crap to put it bluntly. However a problem I have noticed is in the form of self proclaimed experts using such completely wrong terminology, thus misleading their audience and even worse insist in their mistake! So many times before, in internet forums or in up close personal conversatiom have I seen people stand by the term "scimitar" and express many infactuallities and fallacies regarding swords of Eastern Europe and the Near East. Videos like this one may not help in teaching the general public about our hobby, but it sure has merit in compating all the self proclaimed experts of our community and those they have misled with their bullshit

[@MadNumForce]

@@MrPanos2000 - Then maybe I am biased, because I don't go in places/forums with this kind of toxic individuals, and am not aware of this issue. Surely, this kind of proud ignorant is a plague to any field, and I'm well aware of them as antivaxxers and flat-earthers etc. These morons can manage to get reasonnable and knowledgeable people incredibly angry. If that is the context of the rant, I can empathize then. I think the video could be a bit more revealing of that context, to male clear that it's not a general statement meaning to be adressed to anyone, even those who can't realistically be expected to have this detailed niche knowledge, but to these ignorant morons. I still think an educationnal video does more good at helping newcomers to get it right from the start, rather than a rant thrashing at morons once the evil is done. But I get how making educational videos is much more work.

[@leejaymelchor9457]

These are really long words damn you got knowledge

[@julianjames2899]

Faith in the internet is restored...for now

[@PeregrinTintenfish]

Academics are always nitpicky about words that laypeople use. Until recently, they haven't been able to do much about it. However, the group of academics that care most about words (post-modern philosophers that believe that words change things) has developed the tactic of using accusations of racism to change the language.

[@GlaciusTS]

Sounds to me like the term Scimitar should just be an overall term to refer to curved swords, regardless of origin.

[@IPostSwords]

A word for that already exists (in English at least) "Sabre".

[@blackfalcon__]

3:19 Saying "scimitar cannot possibly describe both of these completely different designs" is like saying the word tree cannot possibly describe both an oak and a spruce because they look completely different

[@jondo7680]

So you are basically saying that an oak in Polen isn't a tree while an oak in Turkey is a tree. Or you are completely ignoring that part of his argument because your argument can't deal with it.

[@jondo7680]

By the way I'm ok with calling the Pala a scimitar but if someone calls the Yatagan as such than that makes no sense to me. Why should they be from the same family? Just because they are both Turkish? They are completely different swords.

[@DeathclawJedi]

Honestly I didn't see what I would think of as a "prototypical" scimitar in your video. In fact I've only seen them in cartoons with Bugs Bunny and Daffy running away from Hassan after stealing the lamp or in the cartoon movie Aladdin. The ridiculously BIG chopping sword in those cartoons is what I think of when I hear Scimitar. And Now I know why. Thanks!

[@PeregrinTintenfish]

Exactly, I expected this movie to be about how the scimitar from Aladdin doesn´t exist.

[@brettjohnson536]

Ironically those kind of swords actually look a lot more like the falchion, a European sword, hahaha

[@Khar_Toba]

Your presentation style is really improving. Also the KZbin autogenerated captions think you're saying "I'm Michael Swords" which is brilliant

[@Sheepyhead]

Ah yes Michael Swords, the inventor of swords

[@IPostSwords]

It's like the VSauce intro, but with more swords. Thanks for mentioning this, I fixed all the captions

[@killerkraut9179]

@@IPostSwords If a Scimitar not exist . Then maybe dont exist small swords and Rapiers as well .

[@IPostSwords]

@@killerkraut9179 except the people using them actually called them by those names. That's the difference

[@ieradp9985]

Comment. By the way you pronounces şemşir surprisingly accurate.

[@pavlelutovac6865]

There is no reason why regular person must know the name of every specific type of weapon. I am from Balkans, lands heavily influenced by Ottoman Empire, and we generally use terms like sabre and sword. Sabre for curved and probably one-sided blades, and sword for straight double-edged blades. I heard before for yatagan, and I know it as a sabre. I know shimitar from English, and I imagine it as something like sabre. Also, you are misusing term "racist", at least you could learn that before trying to talk down to everyone for not knowing about shamshir, kilij, pala and others.

[@GlaciusTS]

Sounds to me like maybe the term “Scimitar” could refer to a curved blade, while the term “Sabre” could refer to a one sided blade. Then you’d have two individual words to describe a broad variety of blades and you could just include European swords under the same umbrella so it’s not a term referring to “others” anymore.

[@nishidohellhillsruler6731]

The flame wars I have seen in forums about the difference between a "scimitar" and a "cutlass". I told them they were wasting their time but nobody listened to me.

[@IPostSwords]

Internet flame wars are simultaneously entertaining and depressing to witness.

[@rebeccaschade3987]

While I agree that "call an item by its correct name", I also think there is one problem with your argument. The word scimitar isn't mostly used to describe any specific type of sword, but rather "a sword from a geographical region". And for that, it is actually totally relevant. If an author, who isn't a sword or fencing expert is writing a story, where an observer is pointing out what he or she is seeing, and the word "scimitar" is used, that is totally descriptive. It takes into account that the fictional character isn't very knowledgable about sword, it points out a rough geographical region that the weapon is from, and the simple fact that it is... a sword. These are all things that may well be highly relevant information. This is pretty much like claiming that saying that the car you saw leaving the scene of the crime was a "sports car" is totally stupid and irrelevant. Also, there are no racial connotations in the name "scimitar", negative or otherwise. It's just a generalised term for "curved swords" from a certain geographical region. TLDR: Sure, those who are actually studying swords, HEMA or military history should try to correct their usage of terms. The average person, who have little knowledge of these things, will much easier understand "scimitar" than shamshir, kilij or talwar.

[@AttilaSATAN]

I totally agree to you dear western person. I described you as a western person because from my point of observation you are from west and you don't have any distinctive feature you are just "a person from a geographical region" which is west. I also don't care "west" is a over simlified term for all of the countries, nations, cultures ect. You all eat pork so you must be same. Sure the people who work on cultural studies try to correct the usage of terms but not me. I'm an average person who lives in the east.

[@rebeccaschade3987]

Can you at a cursory glance tell a swedish person from a danish person or a norwegian person? Because, you couldn't call them scandinavian! That's just a made up word and doesn't actually refer to any specific person, or nationality. Truth is though, that it's a relevant description. It actually narrows things down quite a bit. As I said, in any kind of technical manual, reference material and within the HEMA community, sword collector's community and military history community, then of course it's imporant to keep the terms precise. But 90% of the world's population wouldn't even know what a "kilij" is. Nor do they care. But if somebody in Brazil gets attacked on the street by somebody wielding a sword, and they can tell the police that "they had a scimitar"... That actually is useful information. It narrows things down. Most people can't tell a Ferrari from a Honda NSX, but if they can describe something as an exotic mid-engine sports car, that narrows it down substantially. This is in no way any sort of attack on proud cultural heritages or any such thing. I'm not saying that swords from the persian and or ottoman regions are less important than any other types of swords. But the truth of the matter is, that most of the world's population know nothing about swords, but would still most likely be able to identify a weapon from that general region as a "scimitar" despite it being inaccurate. The general public can't be expected to identify swords down to specific type. Heck... in the "western world" most people have learned about medieval weapons from Dungeons & Dragons or World of Warcraft, and think that a "longsword" is a straight one handed sword a bit longer than a "shortsword". Is that somehow racist? No, obviously not, as swords are not living things, and hence have no "race". Is it inaccurate? Sure. Would you understand what somebody meant if they referred to something as a "shortsword"? Probably. And the reason I pointed it out in the first place, is the somewhat condescending and overbearing tone of the video.

[@thesquirrel4257]

I agree its like using the word "longsword." Its a term used for a classification of sword type, but many swords can fall into the category of a longsword, it's not a particular sword, just an overarching term to describe a long two-handed sword.

[@zira9827]

@@AttilaSATAN that was really dumb

[@josephcurwehn7150]

@@rebeccaschade3987 Fair point. If I encountered the word "kilij" I'd have no idea if it was a knife or a mace. I could look it up but i really just want to get to the next page.

[@Thesandchief]

Thank you for this middle eastern sword naming is already complicated enough. We don't need scimitar messing it up even more

[@t.b.cont.]

The correct scientific plural for octopus is octopuses, but that doesn’t make octopi incorrect because it’s made up. All words are made up, and ultimately words are often correct from how popular it is in use. Whether or not it’s a French cavalry sabre, kilij, talwar, cutlass, or nimcha, the common person will “incorrectly” call them a scimitar.

[@chetdelarm]

Wanted to reach out with a couple of points. First, let me say that I really enjoy your videos and find them quite informative. I really appreciated your series on Wootz/Crucible steels. Well done! I did however want to take issue with your point about the overuse of the word scimitar being somehow "racist". I am not sure how you can come to the conclusion that the misuse of a term used to describe a group of swords, why perhaps shows regional and even cultural ignorance, is racist. I would recommend we hold the term "racist" for things and ideas that actually show a prejudice toward other races as it was intended. I see this misuse of the term scimitar as ignorance that people like you are helping to cast a light on and educate people, from all parts of the world, as to the correct terminologies. Well done. I look forward to your next informative video!

[@electronkaleidoscope5860]

So, here's what people mean when they point out stuff like this: The idea isn't that you're being bigoted *to swords* or something, but rather that the terms entire existence could have only really been facilitated by problematic ideas being prevalent. When we describe European swords as a whole, do we have to make a fake sword name to describe everything from a falcion to a rapier? No, we just say "European swords". We are able to describe the region without having to lump all swords into a singular form. That would be weird. But when someone says "scimitar", that's precisely what they're doing- to a *different* culture. Take a moment and consider what kind of mindset would be required for this practice to take hold. A mindset where just saying "Persian swords" or whatever simply wouldn't be good enough in the eyes of the people who coined this phrase, and *felt they needed to prescribe a singular fake name* . Again, it's not an injustice to the *swords* but rather speaks to a rather destructive mindset that the phrase originally came from, and most of us would really, really like to be rid of. It's basically the same thing as when people lump Rap and R&B together when talking about music. Rap and R&B are two *very different* genres of music. That's like lumping Metal and country music together, but they're both genres that are prevalent in black communities in the US, and therefore boiled down into a singular form. "Urban music" is more or less code for "black people music" here in the states. There is no reason whatsoever to lump them together and pretend they're one genre, aside from having that mindset. Recently Billboard 100 did a series of "best ____ songs of the decade" lists for different genres, and lo and behold Rap and R&B were both crammed into the same list once again like two square pegs being forced into a singular round hole. Those lists as a whole have been getting some heavy criticism from the musically inclined actually, Billboard went and looked really quite stupid in front of everyone, there. The Rock list had, like, 3 actual rock song on it. This isn't people just looking for stuff to complain about, though as someone pointed out below a more precise phrase would be "xenophobic"- but honestly its all basically the same garbage anyway. Bigorty exists in both overt and covert forms, and the only effective method for fighting bigotry is to rip it up by the roots, trace it back to the core and find everything effected. There is no good reason to lump all of these swords with their own histories into a singular blunt, bland "scimitar" form, and in the process we're missing out on so much by clinging to this stupid, ill-conceived, ridiculous fake sword name. Right, I hope that made sense- I'd like to point out there's a reason people attack the word itself and not the people using it. We all get that common words are just common words, and it does not mean someone shares in the attitudes that birthed it. Cheers man, thanks for reading all of that.

[@IPostSwords]

You explained that far better than I could.

[@electronkaleidoscope5860]

@@IPostSwords Oh thanks ^^ I've been mulling this stuff over quite a bit lately

[@electronkaleidoscope5860]

@@Woodsie_Lord It seems you somehow managed to miss the closing statement of my comment. *"Right, I hope that made sense- I'd like to point out there's a reason people attack the word itself and not the people using it. We all get that common words are just common words, and it does not mean someone shares in the attitudes that birthed it. Cheers man, thanks for reading all of that."* Misunderstanding is just misunderstanding. A rando on the street calling R&B "rap" ignorantly is in no way synonymous to a musical figurehead like Billboard willfully bunching the two together despite *absolutely* knowing better, and that bunching having a recognizable toxic motive to those actually interested in the topic. These things are not the same for obvious reasons, and I never claimed as such. Furthermore, no- doing something like this is not on the level of, say, *lynching people* or something, but it is *still* a phrase that only came about because of bigotry of the past. Either overt or covert these things can exist to different extremes. The problem is that *we* know, as humans with an interest in swords, that these swords have actual, real names from their actual regions, and that the word "scimitar" is a European invention of the past, and exists as nothing more than an embarrassing legacy. *We* should not continue to spread it. *We* as sword enthusiasts have no excuse for keeping the word in use *once* we know what those actual names *are* . It's not a difficult thing to remedy in the age of the internet, by the way. You bring up "common folk" like you're talking about hapless, brainless lemmings, as if they're so incapable of understanding these things that its somehow cruel to even bring it up. In my own experience, when its brought up that a common phrase, like "chainmail" for example, is flawed to people who aren't otherwise interested in history, it either *sometimes* results in an expression of indifference- or *often* an interesting discussion. If it leads into more problematic topics, like how "scimitar" ties back into the colonial era and the beliefs of that age, it often interests people who would have otherwise *not* cared. Nobody melts down into a pool of blood and confused pain. People can take this stuff just fine, man. Your whole angle basically boils down to a bizarre straw man argument, wherein you cartoonishly expand the range I was talking about, then claim this mischaracterization to be evidence of shortsightedness. *Both this video and my comment were aimed at sword enthusiasts, not "common folk" as you so reductively put it.* I once said "scimitar" in conversation too! It was an innocent mistake I made over and over again- one that I corrected quite quickly once I had the full context in mind, and I was very thankful of those who informed me of it. I took responsibility for the words I used and the history they carry. "you literally compared common folk ignorant about bunch of foreign swords to people hating other race or culture itself" No, I literally, and specifically, did not.

[@Woodsie_Lord]

@@electronkaleidoscope5860 It seems I somehow managed to miss the point where it was directed only towards sword enthusiasts... Yes, of course if someone knew about term scimitar being incorrect and use it anyway he would be such a racist and xenophobe. Oh my god!!! This would definietelly happen especially in hema community, suure. Because you have to know everything about your hobby... (Psss I didn't know about that. wow incredible!) Stop derailing conversation. You used those words. Pointing later about attacking word not people completly doesnt work. Why would you use them in a first place? It only makes you a bigger moron and now also a hypocrite. Piss off with your "bigotry" and stop watering down to meaningless pulp every xenophobic/racist adjective. Again, why would you ever think that video about scimitars on youtube is directed only towards sword enthusiast? Stop this lunacy.

[@MRKapcer13]

Honestly the closest thing to what most people think of when they think of a scimitar is a European falchion, which I find to be slightly funny. With that said I totally agree. Honestly if I don't know what the specific sword name is "sabre" is a perfectly good term to describe most of them, considering it's got a strict definition of a "curved backsword" that's broad enough to not be incorrect whilst also narrow enough to be very specific about what we're talking about.

[@IPostSwords]

Using any broad terms to describe swords from multiple cultures tends to fall flat. Much like no English words adequately describe the katana (and thus why we use that word), "sabre" doesnt adequately describe something like a pala, without a whole bunch of clarifications and expanded definitions

[@MRKapcer13]

​@@IPostSwords I'm not sure I agree. I think broad terms are useful to describe general categories of swords, especially to laypeople or people who aren't necessarily interested in knowing the intricate differences between two swords that are ostensibly very similar. For example, depending on the region and time period, a longsword can be anything from a sword with a fuller, a broad end and a simple crossguard all the way up to a diamond cross-section sword with a crossguard fully protecting the hand. These are two completely different swords, but both fall into the category of longsword. The differences between a karabela and a tulwar are most certainly there, but as a quick descriptor I have no issue with calling both a sabre. Afterall, the differences between a 17th century Polish karabela and a Pattern 1796 Light Cavalry sabre are just as vast, yet both are also sabres. At a more extreme end, the Swiss sabre is still a sabre despite being more like a curved longsword. I also think the only reason there is a big distinction between a katana and other sabres is cultural. I wholeheartedly believe that if a katana was made in Europe calling it a sabre wouldn't be too inaccurate a statement. So as a wrap-up, whilst specific definitions are obviously very important and I'm not advocating for us to abandon them completely, I think broader terms are also useful as a quick and dirty way of distinguishing general trends.

[@coronal2207]

@@MRKapcer13 Calling a katana a sabre is weird in the same way that calling a kriegsmesser a sabre is weird imo

[@MRKapcer13]

@@coronal2207 In my view both are equally valid though, and to that end I bring up the Swiss sabre as an example. I personally wouldn't do it, especially since everyone knows what a katana is, but it wouldn't be incorrect if we had to use that term.

[@coronal2207]

@@MRKapcer13 It's valid, I just find it quite weird. Remember words evolve over time to mean something more often than others. To me at least it means a lot more "curved sword, especially those meant for one hand", to the point where if I had to describe a 2 handed curved sword I would actively add the decription "2 handed" to "sabre" to better convey what I mean.

[@umarabdullah5510]

When I think of Scimitar I think of the wide tipped curved short sword

[@fahimtajwar1989]

yeah, like in the old cartoon of aladin

[@welfare_burrito]

Imagine being dull enough to sit here and argue semantics about this type of thing

[@abu-isawebb9868]

"The yataghan and the sossun pattah, both in the category of 'swords' cannot possibly be placed into the same category in any way shape or form. It would be completely insane to categorize both of these weapons in the same category, such as weapon, or sword, or scimitar." You aptly defined "scimitar" as "foreign curved sword." The word has meaning. The meaning is dumb, but don't argue linguistics when your point is about swords. If one wishes to convey authentic information about swords, they should consistently use the authentic name for various weapons. That is a very good point. If you come across inauthentic, misleading or inaccurate nomenclature such as "scimitar" you should be weary of the source. Also good to note. Also this is a great intro to a few "foreign curved swords." Probably just leave linguistics out of it unless you can make an interesting observation.

[@IPostSwords]

I have seen online dictionaries call yataghans a form of scimitar, why is why I included them in this. I agree it is absurd to say they're the same category of weapon

[@donottrythisatwork4159]

@@IPostSwords You missed the irony. It's fine to categorize various objects at various levels and for various contexts. For example, an montante, yataghan and lobala are all "swords". The category is intentionally broad, and broad categorizations do not mean words don't have meaning. Arguing linguistic fallacies poorly is not informative. Scimitar has a meaning that one should be careful not to use, and using authentic names for swords is good practice.

[@i_love_crpg]

Do Not Try This at Work how about we don’t use the word scimitar at all :)

[@erencanayhan8514]

I wouldnt call ottoman designs middle eastern. They are central asian in origin

[@bardiatalebi3649]

Still they are “foreign” as he said to Europe.

[@erencanayhan8514]

@@bardiatalebi3649 i dont care about europe

[@CitizenSmith50]

You ARE being pedantic! Every country; every language has it's own words for describing foreign things. Even the names of foreign Countries vary from country to country ! E.g. Germany, Allemagne, Alemania, Германия, Německo, Tiamana, all mean the same place, depending which country you're in. So to the European layman unfamiliar with the etymology of each "sword" in each foreign language; "scimitar" conjures up a general image of a curved Middle-Eastern relatively long bladed weapon, which is what you were holding!

[@IPostSwords]

"every country has its own name" is true - but scimitar isn't one of them. It is not the correct name in any countries native language.

[@demi1789]

kılıç etymological means in turkic : something made of metal (sword, knife, etc). oldest text orchun valley inscription 735AD" altun kursakimi kilicin kesipen" means cut my golden throat with a sword - also Talwar pulwar shasmir all driven from central asia... mungal empire was also turkic mix ... like afganistan many years ruled by turkic clans

[@alirezarezaei2976]

The idea of having a single blade sword for cavalry existed in the middle east even in the 4th century AD. We have a lot of Persian Sassanian single bladed q shape grip dated from 5-6th century ad and the only thing central asians added to them was the curvature nothing else Persians and Indians and Arabs saw how useful the curvature can be for a single balded cavalry sabre and they copied it and combined it with their superior metallurgy they created their own classes of curved swords So it is true that Persians and Indians copied the idea of curvature on a sword but Shamshir and Talwar is in no way a turkish sword because they are different And not to mention even some of the ottoman generals used persian blades for their kilij and pala cuz of their superior quality of the steel they produced

[@Behemoth713]

@@alirezarezaei2976 When you are changing shape of the sword it changes everything. Turks building their sword curvative but not only these. To make sword curvative there is different technics. It's not same sword with different shape. You have to change its metalurgy. You have to change its smithing technic like using different parts with different softness in various parts of sword so it can bend when its face with something hard as sword itself. Also bending sword changes all combat technics to use. There was hundreds of yeared persian literature and culture which is affected(and still doing) Turkish and Arabic world. There is no shame to be affected by others. Instead its creating common culture and history together.

[@sahipkran9447]

@@alirezarezaei2976 In what kind of an utopia are you living in?

[@alirezarezaei2976]

@@sahipkran9447 When you want to criticize someone you need to mention clues and then say your piece but when you just want do some trolling then you just need to throw some random insults and the rest doesn't matter that much So do you want to make sense or just a random troll passing by?!

[@sahipkran9447]

@@alirezarezaei2976 Veto.

[@rasnac]

Oh thank you a million times for saying it. I vocalized very similar opinions before in online sword related platforms, and unfortunately was reprised with very angry responses from Western sword people. I hope this scimitar nonsense will go away one day.

[@sandeman1776]

While I don't disagree with you or IPS, it does make me wonder about what the actual name for a specific type of sword is. The scimitar in Skyrim has a noticably shorter and broader blade than a shamshir. It shares a similar shape to that normally associated in other pop culture such as Sinbad, the infamous Indiana Jones "sword" fight (though that example is much larger), and the earlier Drizzt Do'Urden artwork. What is that sword? Is it a real sword or Hollywood hokum?

[@IPostSwords]

@@sandeman1776 The term for that is "a fantasy sword". They never existed.

[@sandeman1776]

@@IPostSwords okay. I've just seen it so many times I wasn't sure if it had an origin in reality or just made up. Thank you for your clarification and great video as always.

[@Fedorchik1536]

@@sandeman1776 Term scimitar should die. It is plaguing tabletop RPGs (mainly D&D and knockoffs) while being repeated and popularised by video games and based on totally unrealistic portrayal of middle eastern curved blades. With modern drift towards realism in fantasy media things like "scimitar" becoming more and more out of place. Right now "classic D&D" gives you exactly two options for a curved blade - one handed scimitar and two-handed falchion. This need to go xD

[@MrPanos2000]

@@sandeman1776 We see it a lot in cinema and video games because it became popularised in 19th century through theater and opera prop swords. Thus early films featured such props, thus modern films feature such props, thus video games do. Its a chain of bad props starting all the way to 19th century

[@thelonerider9693]

There are a lot of these problems and I think they stem at least partly from words changing over time. Like how a few hundred years ago a basket hilt broadsword was called a claymore, but now we use that word almost exclusively for a specific style of two handed sword. Or how a lot of people call one handed straight swords with a crossguard from the middle ages "broadswords", whereas most people who know swords hear "broadsword" and think of a basket hilt sword, not what they know as an arming sword. Beyond the shift in terminology over the years, the problem is exacerbated by the fact that the term "scimitar" is a catch-all for describing swords from a large part of the world that are as different as they are similar. I don't know if I would call it "racist" though as the term seems more about region of origin than the races of the people who used the swords; and in any case encompasses many different races and backgrounds. An Indian, a Turk, an Arab, and a Persian are all very different backgrounds. I think the problem resolves itself as one gets more into swords. The layman has a general basic and often superficial knowledge. As he learns more, he filters out those terms that lack specificity or are prone to confuse. You did an excellent job pointing it out, but ultimately because the term is so broad, the more one learns about swords the less likely one is to use it, and so hopefully this is a self-solving problem.

[@mertgemicioglu5346]

Yaaay! He's back. And this is a great clearance video, thanks to IPostSwords so much.

[@IPostSwords]

I've been trying to post more regularly. I am not good at it.

[@mertgemicioglu5346]

@@IPostSwords Regular or not keep posting:) we like your videos.

[@joeknow3712]

why do you have a picture of winged hussars on your wall?

[@IPostSwords]

Because I wanted a picture of Hussars? There wasn't much thinking involved. I just like their arms and armor

[@joeknow3712]

IPostSwords Definitely they are awesome, it's just that in a frame like that your supposed to hang paintings, that picture looks like modern graphic or concept art, not something you usualy expect to be framed and hung up, but as a poster Check out this one images.app.goo.gl/eXnUoLFZffYUZisW7 Are you Polish btw? You seem to have some knowledge of the language and history but you got a British accent.

[@IPostSwords]

@@joeknow3712 No british accent here - I have lived my whole life in Australia. My family is Polish but I barely speak the language. Traditionally you'd put a painting in a frame, sure, but shipping paintings to australia is both expensive and difficult cos they're generally pretty fragile, and you cannot roll them. Plus, paintings are more expensive than prints on canvas.

[@velazquezarmouries]

Also spain calls pala scimitarras or cimitarras because pala in spanish means shovel but i use the bastardized name pata or just kilij

[@chimbonda99]

Another great video, keep them coming. As an indian i like the fact that you cover eastern swords - they are often neglected on other sword channels.

[@IPostSwords]

Indian swords are some of my all time favorites - a T spine tegha on a khanda hilt is the top item on my bucketlist

[@CoKane621]

Following This logic, swords and longswords suffer more of This problem

[@IPostSwords]

Except "sword" and "longsword" (and translations like langschwert / schwert, etc) are the correct historical terms for the respective languages. Scimitar isn't a correct term for the respective language. It's developed from shamshir, which is one specific word for sword, in one language.

[@KennethNicholson1972]

But people in the real world do not care. Only obsessive compulsives like you and I. It is not my, or your responsibility to make any layman in any subject an expert. The vast majority in my area call a vacuum cleaner a Hoover, even though they are not made by Hoover. I own a Stihl saw, and many tradesmen use what they call Stihl saws every day, even though they are not made by Stihl, but are just Angle grinders and cutters. But only you seen to be loosing sleep over such insignificant information that, in the end, really changes nothing.

[@timewarp1994]

I personally think of Scimitar as any curved sword, as I don’t really use the word sabre

[@IPostSwords]

So something like a katana would be a "scimitar" to you? An interesting take.

[@GlaciusTS]

I think that works. If we need a distinction between a Sabre and a Scimitar, I’d be fine with one referring to a curved sword, and another referring to a one sided blade, regardless of geographical origin. Thing is, I don’t real deal in talking about swords as historical objects, but more in D&D in a fantasy setting. So when you are describing a curved sword from some enemy pirate ship full of insectoids, I am content with describing their blades as Sabres or Scimitars purely because calling them anything else seems to denote origins that don’t exist in said fantasy world. And saying “curved swords” just feels like a meme and doesn’t have that sense of flavor there that Scimitar or Sabre has.

[@PeregrinTintenfish]

I am pretty sure that the scimitar has been used to describe eastern European swords. A famous example is the coat of arms of Finland, where the curved sword represents Russia. I think to really understand the use of the terminology, one has to first remember that European swords were not very well classified. For example, the term Claymore means big sword in Gaelic and therefore was used for both the two-handed sword that we would call a Claymore today, and a basket-hilted broadsword. Now, the Middle East was on the edge of the European world, and most of the descriptions that the Europeans had of Middle Eastern and Asian weapons were written and not specific. So misidentification was very likely. I will also point out that a certain type of national stereotyping is normal and countries do them to themselves. This has led to historical inaccuracies, such as Cortes with a morion (a helmet type associated with Spain). The nation that has marketed its own stereotype (in terms of historical clothing and military equipment) is Scotland. This is probably in large part to Sir Walter Scott, a lowlands Scot who not only depicted the romantically highlanders in his novels, but also got the German descended King to wear a kilt. I mention Scott, while tolerance for other cultures is a common theme in his book and evident in how he depicts the crusades. He has King Richard and Saladin compare their weapons. Saladin was armed inaccurately with a scimitar, with which he is able to cut silk in air. The two rulers are depicted in the book not only as chivalrous to one another, but practically friends. The scene doesn't serve to highlight their differences, but say rather, being different cultures. The one is not better than other, although both men have their preference (especially in regard to religion, Scott does not imply that both religions are equal, but endorses religious tolerance).

[@jakemake142]

I bet it’s hard to fence with the pala because it looks heavy

[@IPostSwords]

It's very light. 673 grams.

[@gs6810]

I definitely don't think the word is useless. It has a meaning, you can poke holes in that meaning, and that conversation is constructive because it strengthens the meaning. However saying just throw away the word because because it has no meaning is waste also. My idea of a scimitar is a curved blade sword that fatten toward the tip. I think that is a fine umbrella term regardless of other more exacting terms. Providing information regarding the accuracies and inaccuracies does not mean the word is meaningless. You actually just further defined the word and made it more meaningful.

[@petermarrocco7840]

The problem is that there already is an umbrella term for swords with a curved blade, and that is Sabre. As stated in the video, scimitar is only used to describe blades that are of “exotic” origin, hence why it is problematic when using the word scimitar. Use the example that was given with Polish-Lithuanian and Ottoman Karabela. The Polish sword is referred to as a Sabre, yet the Ottoman sword is labeled a scimitar, despite being basically identical swords. It is this distinction that is problematic and far too Eurocentric.

[@petermarrocco7840]

The other problem with your definition of a scimitar is that, well, it doesn’t exist. There isn’t any real historical evidence to support the existence of swords that are curved and broaden at the end of the blade outside of a couple sabres like the Kilij. The main “scimitar” image evoked by the word is usually one of fantasy design. Swords very rarely widened at the tip, and most of the ones that did didn’t have a curve to them. Outside of a few ceremonious Zulfiquars it’s hard to make a case for this definition of scimitar. The problem with your definition is that swords are not all made the same way every time. Take these Kilij for example en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilij#/media/File%3AOttoman_kilij_from_the_Hellenic_Revolution_of_1821_(8667698557).jpg By your definition, not all of these are scimitars despite the fact that these are all the same type of sword. This is why you shouldn’t attempt to refer to these swords as scimitars. It is too poorly defined as a word. Either call the sword by it’s actual name or use Sabre, a more neutral and all encompassing term for curved swords

[@MalusSanguine]

I heard people even call some German falchions a "scimitar", bc the edge as a curve at the end and the blade has a clip point...

[@MalusSanguine]

@@tatumergo3931 There is still a difference in the hilt. The hilts on messers are constructed like a knife (thats where the name comes from). The blades are often simular/the same.

[@galaktyczne_przygody]

Tbf, I didn't picture as scimitar either of these two you showed early, and while I do understand it's now a stand up name for all curvy swords. The scimitar I have in mind is something like this: imgur.com/a/Jmp7bNV I think the word scimitar fits fine and sounds good to me. No idea how would you call it properly though.

[@IPostSwords]

See, this is a history channel, and that's a fantasy design. So I don't own one, and can't cover one. It has no real historical name, because it's not a real historical sword

[@KamenRider1]

@@IPostSwords Thank you for this, Sir. As stated by the fellow above, I grew up associating the term "Scimitar" with that particular (fictional) design. I'm relatively new to the world of blade culture and am always willing to learn more. Mabuhay and God bless from the Philippines. 🙏🇵🇭👊

[@TarpShooter]

awesome video! also where would be the best place to find real antique turkish palas and yatagans like the ones you have?

[@nusaibahibraheem8183]

I think another issue is that non-natives use generic foreign words such as Saif, which just means sword to describe a specifics items from specific cultures.

[@IPostSwords]

Yes, this is an inherent issue to using loanwords from other languages. Unfortunately the only way to combat it is to make a typology for each culture and period of history, which is practically impossible, and using those new terms

[@Dot-hack]

Jesus Christ way to look for problems where there are none.

[@AlexisB-gv1tk]

In the words of the great Lindybeige "It's a metal stick you use to chop and stab people"

[@trondsi]

Easy solution: scimitar is the same as a shamshir. In fact, shamshir might be the origin of the word scimitar (the word having gone through several changes on its way to Europe)

[@bobmilaplace3816]

The word Scimitar makes sense. Dao means chinese single bladed weapon(from zhibeidao, miaodao and nieweidao), messer is german single edge weapon (Kriegmesser and grossmesser) and tokaba means North African sword with spear point and two edges. Scimitar simply means foreign Islamic sword with a curve. Since India, Pakistan, were/are part of the Islamic World any sword that is curved is a scimitar. I would conclude an Austrian weapon can be called a messer. Poland is in Europe so calling their weapons scimitar is wrong but a curved Balkan weapon can be called a scimitar.

[@IPostSwords]

Except all those words are directly taken from their languages, used to describe their local swords. Scimitar is not. And scimitar does not describe one sword, or even one family of swords, as dao does

[@thiatas-ashadarawesh]

Regionally discriminatory on a categorical basis? Yes. Racist though? Not even. What 'race' does it discriminate against? And at what point in the last 50 years can it be seen as derogatory? The term isn't useless, however, I can see how the term needs more consistency overall. All curved ziffs, shamshir, tulwar, pulwar, khopesh, and even sabers and katana likely should be known as types of a broad category known as 'scimitar'. But a forward curved sword should not, the yatagan, kopis, falcata, falx, kukri, and shotel for instance should be under their own broad classification, likely sickle sword or something of the like (denoting a forward curve with the blade on the inside of the curve) The issue with most sword classification systems will always be that are a tad anachronistic at best anyways, with people looking back to reclassify a weapon in a given way that fits the times, rather than the historicity of it, but at the same time, why not? We should own our linguistics and its uses, we should accurately catalog history, but there is no reason why modern uses of terms cannot serve our current purposes.

[@justdean6224]

In oldschool Runescape the best f2p weapon is a Rune Scimitar. It's a curved blade, and it comes from the desert area in the game. Calling a sword from that area a scimitar is not racist at all. All its doing is describing a curved sword.

[@IPostSwords]

They're a already a word for that in English. Sabre

[@justdean6224]

@@IPostSwords Ok, but in the game that i mentioned is based out of England. And it was created in 1999. That's what I'm trying to point out.

[@IPostSwords]

@@justdean6224 Okay, and Scimitar is an English corruption of a word that dates back to around 1600 in the English Language. What is your point?

[@justdean6224]

@@IPostSwords Nothing really, i just have an interest in the game, and wanted to point it out. Also, calling it racist is ridiculous. It's a legitimate word in multiple dictionaries as well. Type in Scimitar to google. Even then you'll see that its used in Dungeons and Dragons 5e, and other video games.

[@IPostSwords]

@@justdean6224 The word exists - no disputing that - but the implication is still inherently xenophobic. It essentially means "A sabre, but used by brown people", as a member of the HEMA discord eloquently put it. So sure, the word exists. But no actual sword exists that was ever called a "scimitar" by it's native population, and it certainly does not describe a specific sword in the modern context of the word. Yeah, games, tv, movies, even books and dictionaries contain the word. But that doesnt mean it actually is a historical sword design. It's a vague, innaccurate umbrella term embroiled with a history of xenophobic connotations

[@dead_channel_yt]

Good to know. What is the correct name of the blade of the man who is shot by Indiana Jones?

[@IPostSwords]

Fantasy

[@dead_channel_yt]

@@IPostSwords I see that as fair, but is it based on another type of sword

[@IPostSwords]

@@dead_channel_yt it's based on a mix of period artwork depicting storta, flachion, and early kilic. eventually that lead to theatrical props being used in plays that resembled the art, rather than resembling actual swords. which eventually translated to film, once film was invented. thus the indiana jones sword

[@EyeTripImages]

The word is not racist any more than the word “foreign” is racist. I love how you share your detailed knowledge but that kind of argument is pointless. We clearly have a need for a generic term like scimitar and none of the specific terms you covered can replace it

[@longlivethesecondplaceice2736]

Am working on I story with a lot of middle east personality but have zero knowledge about weapons and How the use them can you give me some sources to look for that will help a lot.

[@IPostSwords]

A good starting point that covers a wide range is Kirill Rivkins "study of the eastern sword"

[@leeisaac5716]

www.thelanesarmoury.co.uk/shop.php check page 14, there's a listing for a shamshir and they have some thought on the scimitar word

[@IPostSwords]

They've said essentially the same things I did - that the word arrived in english via french and italian, and may be a corruption of shamshir

[@josephcurwehn7150]

I was with you 100%... up untill you said the word "scimitar" is racist. "its not descriptive" 'yes, good point' "these swords already have specific names from the cultures that created them" 'another good point. lets not make the world smaller with bland generics' "the word is racist because it describes asian swords" 'wait, what? how? its just an association with a percieved regional style'

[@WildmanotheSouth]

Scimatar popped up in D&D thank you.

[@TheUCuber]

Okay... None of the swords you've shown is what I picture a scimitar.

[@IPostSwords]

Consider that this is a history channel, so if your internal definition of a "scimitar" is a fantasy design, then it won't be covered by me, as fantasy swords are not historical.

[@311man2]

If a scimitar doesn’t exist then what other name should a curved Arab sword be called?

[@IPostSwords]

That depends on that specific sword. For example, it could be a saif. If not, just call it a "country+ sabre". For example, a Syrian sabre. No need to use the word scimitar

[@adam-bf8li]

Blasphemy! Next video you'll be saying the Scottish Claymore isn't actually named Claymore!

[@zaffronthebountyhunter4196]

In Scottish Gaelic the word Claymore is said like this claidheamh-mòr.

[@That80sGuy1972]

I guess I have been using the word "scimitar" wrong for decades. I always used it as a generic term for any sword that curved away from the edge.

[@IPostSwords]

The typical word for that, at least in English nomenclature, would be "sabre"

[@That80sGuy1972]

@@IPostSwords I guess I was wrong on that one too... I used that word to describe most narrow-bladed swords.

[@powerincarnate6783]

So a Katana would fit in scimitar denomination?

[@IPostSwords]

Historically speaking, many 18th century authors referred to them as such. But then they took the effort to learn the real name

[@powerincarnate6783]

Hahaha that is very funny and interesting.

[@uaamf]

Perhaps I am showing my ignorance in this comment but none of the swords shown in this video are what I think of when I hear or see the word “scimitar”. What I think of is a sword of varying curvature that widens at a point about 1/3 of the way back from the tip. This widening being bring the center of gravity forward and to strengthen the sword because (from what I heard once) that is the place where a sword was most likely to crack and, eventually, fail. I do not think of them as being particularly non-European. Do these swords I describe even exist in the historical record?

[@IPostSwords]

No, they don't. The closest blade shape is on some dao, and some storta, which are Chinese and European respectively. Where this stereotype developed from is a point of historical contention. Some people think it developed from painters in the second and third crusades being told that "the Muslims had curved swords", and using the available European falchions they had as inspiration, not knowing what actual curved swords from the region looked like

[@garynaccarto8636]

With the Talwar it tends to be not as radically curved as something that would be called a scimatar and is more akin to what would be considered a saber at least as far the blade goes.

[@IPostSwords]

Yeah, most are only gently to moderately curved. Yet people still call them "scimitar"

[@garynaccarto8636]

@@IPostSwords Despite having blades which are designed like that of sabers talwars are still primarily used for draw cuts just like how a shamshir or a Turkish Kilij is primarily used however when it comes to the shamshir it tends to be better suited for thrusting then the kilij.Even though kilij and shamshirs are both called scimitars they are both quite curved and they are both quite good for draw cuts the fat end of the kilij and the overall skinny profile of the shamshir makes a big difference in terms of how they would have been used.

[@IPostSwords]

@@garynaccarto8636 I agree, the designs are different as is their use and the techniques which are most effective. I never claimed they are all the same. The whole point of this is they're all unique, different designs, with their own history, culture and systems of use

[@garynaccarto8636]

@@IPostSwords Part of what I was saying is that even though Talwar blade are designed like saber they were not used like a saber and alot them which were made in India even have a disc on the bottom that prevents them from being used like a saber as for the shamshir even though thrust wouldn't have been optimal there still capable of thrusting quite well unlike the Kilij which had a fat end which would have made it very good for draw cuts but quite ineffective for thrusting.Even though you could thrust with a kilij you could tell that unlike a shamshir the design of the kilij seems to discourage any kind of thrusting at all by making the thrust ineffective and thus making a Kilij a weapon which seemed to be strictly just for draw cuting.

[@Wrahns]

So Drizzt used Shamshir’s ?

[@IPostSwords]

Fantasy is a whole different realm, one I don't want to really get into.

[@DragynryderMW]

It isn't racist. We have a broad range of swords called "longsword." They are all different. This overbroad categorization isn't something that only happens to non European swords or armor. It isn't also something that just Europe people do. It's how humans and language works. We make groups of people and things, sometimes it's arbitrary. It's acceptable to oppose this based on the fact they are not the same, and calling them all the same name makes no sense. It's Bull Shit to think it's all about racism. Not everything is racist.

[@sashimicheetah]

I'll add a third comment as well. Imagine if you will the different germanic cultures. They had their own curved swords that we, today referred to as messers. Nobody calls them sabres and nobody calls them scimitars. How come? It should stick to your rule right? Even the term Messer is overcomplicates things as not all German swords of that profile had that same name historically.

[@IPostSwords]

Unless Germany recently detached itself from Europe, the messer does not fit the common definition of "scimitar", which Google gives as a curved sword of eastern origin.

[@sashimicheetah]

@@IPostSwords my point is your social activism makes no sense.

[@MrBigCookieCrumble]

That's not at all what i imagined when i heard "scimitar", i picture a much wider and heftier blade.

[@IPostSwords]

So something really extreme like a T spine tegha? oriental-arms.co.il/photos/items/11/005811/ph-0.jpg

[@erichusayn]

Azeems sword in Robin good prince of thrives?

[@MrBigCookieCrumble]

@@IPostSwords No, every game (tabletop or otherwise) have always shown THIS (www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fb3%2F1c%2Faa%2Fb31caa1a7c5a0e88acd8c19b1dd16050.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F606015693578080860%2F&docid=hFUhje9Otj39qM&tbnid=dRoN9OTyzExRUM%3A&vet=1&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim) or something very similar to this and called it a scimitar. :P

[@IPostSwords]

This is covered under "fantasy designs". This is an antique sword channel. I don't own fantasy swords to make videos with.

[@abu-isawebb9868]

@@IPostSwords you should have mentioned the falchion as well, since it is also what is depicted as a scimitar in popular culture.

[@TheUnhappyTroll]

how then is described "sword or sabre with curved blade" with yalman?

[@IPostSwords]

Depends where it was made, more than anything. If it's a turkish sabre with a yelman, then it's a kilij.

[@matthew55793]

Thanks for the video! I'm gonna keep using "scimitar" but exclusively to refer to shamshirs.

[@jeffrobinson1975]

what about the sword of Azim from Robin Hood?

[@IPostSwords]

Pure fantasy with no basis in history

[@jeffrobinson1975]

@@IPostSwords I have seen some partly curved, scimitar-looking falchions from ca. 11-12c. Obviously not sabres, but still, curved, sometimes even with notch notch-like structure behind the tip of the false side.

[@nooneofinterest234]

Not going to lie, these days I have a better sense of sword terminology but scimitar in my mind is always the models that WoW (World of Warcraft) used. Like the scimitar of Atun.

[@minaDesuDesu]

Runescape's steel scimmy for me.

[@FernTheCamper]

A catch word as annoying as 'bug'. Great rant, highly informative. Loved hearing about the various curved swords.

[@lDanielHolm]

It's not a specific kind of sword, but there's a kind of butcher's knife named after it -- the cimeter. The etymology is the same.

[@reallycool]

khopesh when

[@IPostSwords]

Send me money or a kopesh, and that'll be kopesh then.

[@Onioncup]

So scimitar DO exist, this is just a language/syntax issue

[@nathanruben3372]

Ottomans have documented 40 different types of swords used in the army. Each with different purpose and used by different branches of the military navy. Swords that use by logistic or axuliary units, archers, heavy infantry, light or heavy cavalary, navy, pirates are all purposedly different. If you really compare them, europian swords have much less diverstly that ottoman range of swords. You call it pala bit actually pala is quite different, short sword used by navymen in close combat.

[@TyLarson]

I see falchions often called scimitars too.

[@MrSven3000]

ah nice swords. i like the narrow scimitars best. more elegancy.

[@navigatorofnone]

Wow!!! Thanks for the explaination 👍👍👍 and for clarifying issue about those swords.

[@nikolasa3428]

Shamshir and Killiji look basically the same so I see no reason to distinguish them.

[@IPostSwords]

Well, one has a yelman. So that's significant in terms of how you can use it

[@nikolasa3428]

@@IPostSwords ah I see

[@althesmith]

Well, scimitars do exist, I use one for cutting up roasts into steaks in my kitchen. But apart from the kitchen/butcher's knife variant- not so much.

[@briangeiswite4452]

When I think of a scimitar I think about a dao with middle eastern accents. Like on Aladdin.

[@ThiLI0n]

'racist' is pretty unfitting, I'd say misattributive would be ok.

[@oolooo]

It is like calling every Medieval sword a "Broadsword" ( At least 125 years apart from real Broadswords , people ) .It borders on Xenophobic .

[@miguelsimarrogonzalez2128]

then we can't use the word 'sword' either, because a roman spatha is not the same as a spanish rapier...

[@IPostSwords]

Do you not see a difference between Spatha, a word the Romans actually used, vs scimitar, a word which no one used in the regions the swords are associated with? Like, no one in the near, middle or far east called their sword the scimitar.

[@Sverd_Ok_Skjoldr]

Racist is an over-used term. This had nothing to do with the race of the people, just the fact they were foreign. Racist? No. Xenophobic? YES.

[@IPostSwords]

I agree, xenophobic would have been a better word. Slipped my mind when filming

[@reallycool]

Scimitar

[@IPostSwords]

How about you go swim in tar

[@andreaburroni2213]

never imagine scimitar as the second one you show...to me is aways been as shashir or a even straight one with a slighlty recurve profile right to the point

[@texasbeast239]

If a shamshir may legitimately be called a scimitar, then why couldn't any of the other curved swords be called a scimitar too? The shamshir already had a name as well, but you conceded that it could be referred to as a scimitar. So already having a name clearly does not preclude a curved sword type with a distinctive name also being included under the label scimitar. If scimitar was somehow a colonial or imperialistic word in its origin, that still does not inhibit it from serving as an effective umbrella term for all curved swords. Neither does the word sword fail to effectively communicate a general idea, even when other languages already had their own local terms for the item.

[@IPostSwords]

The shamshir is the closest to being able to be called a "scimitar", as "scimitar" is a translation of shamshir into 16th century Italian or French - it's unclear which language it first appeared in - but the correct term is still shamshir. And that usage still refers specifically to Iranian swords, not to all curved swords. It's not an effective umbrella terms, because people don't use it to describe all curved swords. The word for that is "sabre". People use scimitar to refer to non European curved swords. It is a term born of historical laziness and an unwillingness to learn about other cultures

[@theoneandonlybumpus2862]

scimitar

[@somename3424]

so Scimitars do exist, thanks for the clickbait

[@icy_gamer9113]

I dont like extra curved sword but i love Saber and "Shamsheer" aka Scimitar which are little bit curved mostly Muslims used it in old times..

[@buraktuna4505]

Scimitar is acc to the belief is the name derived from arabic name Zülfikar. " Lâ fetâ illâ Alî, lâ seyfe illâ zülfikār " means there is no hero than Ali, there is no sword than his sword Zülfikar. Ali "Asadullah" was the heir of Muhammed, prophet of İslam. Zülfikar was his legendary sword with scissor form at the top of the blade which has been lost since approx 1000 AC.

[@leeisaac5716]

often see the word promoted in the west www.dahlal.com/balanced-scimitar-sword-for-belly-dance/ and also the mad sword used in Indiana Jones lost ark film, the scene where he shoots the swordsman instead of using the whip; well pretty much any hollywood/disney silliness referring to Arabian swords as scimitar. I enjoy your educating presentations, thanks!

[@stevenvalkanas4407]

Sword is not a valid word because that would include katanas and sabers? This video is nonsense. All words are made up. If people decided that scimitar means curved middle eastern sword then thats a valid word

[@erichusayn]

Excellent video sir!

[@setarehmariposa9571]

thank you for making this very informative video!!!

[@rejuch5136]

Why won't we just call everything a sword? Btw i like hussars in the background.

[@fenixwulfheart454]

Scimitar is not a type of sword, it's a word that means "curved sword". It most certainly does not "lose all meaning" if it is a general term meant to categorize a broad array of different sword designs. Scimitar is about as generalized as "backsword". Those games and media that call scimitar a type of sword are completely wrong, but also, your focus on narrowing the term to a single type of sword is just as wrong, because it is not and never has been a type of sword. It is a TYPOLOGY of sword. Whether or not it is a USEFUL typology is up for debate. After all, different curves have different purposes. The backsword label is much more useful than the curved sword label, as all backswords have FUNCTION in common due to its nature as a backsword, while this is not the case with the curved sword morphology.

[@IPostSwords]

As far as English is concerned, a word for "curved sword" already exist: sabre. So it would be redundant to use "scimitar" regardless.

[@CthulhuTheory]

Hold on... You say in one sentence that a scimitar is a curved sword, then act confused and utterly bewildered that the pala and the yataghan (spelling? never heard of/seen this one before), which are both curved swords, are considered to be scimitars? Seriously? You then make a case to use the correct word to *describe* them. How else would you describe them if not as "curved"? Sure the curve goes different directions, but the fact remains that the descriptive name "scimitar" as reference to any non-european (or even middle-eastern) curved-blade sword would fit. This is like saying that you can't call a bike a vehicle because vehicles are things used for transportation and because cars and bikes, or even trains, use different methods for locomotion, they're totally dissimilar and can't be called vehicles. As for your argument that if you say a "scimitar" in some written text the person won't know which sword the character is actually using, that's kind of irrelevant and up to the author to describe in as much or little detail as possible for their audience. This argument would be valid for something that requires precision, like a research paper, but for story purposes there's no real need to specify the exact type of sword especially if the setting is in fantasy where the notable swords are usually fancier than your traditional combat weapon. Further, there's no real difference in saying "the guy drew his weapon/sword/scimitar/shamshir and swung at his opponent" beyond degrees of precision which, again, is up to the author's discretion. When the author says "he used a scimitar" all he's doing is putting into the reader's mind a curved sword of whatever type the reader chooses to imagine, which means that it does have meaning and does have purpose. Also, what's this bullshit about a different word for an item created in a different place being racist and problematic? If a saber is a european curved blade and a scimitar is a middle-eastern curved blade, whether or not they're identical is irrelevant. You made a case for there being value in knowing the place of origin of a specific sword, so it stands to reason that by this logic differentiating between the polish and ottoman karabela's, even by employing categorical terms like scimitar or saber, you're identifying the general cultures the weapons are coming from and where they're being used. This has nothing to do with racism. Further you haven't even established how or why it is, in fact racist to distinguish the origins of each specific karabela. Which reminds me, you argue that you wouldn't call each by the other (for already established regional reasons) yet the layman could very easily confuse one for another and use call either polish or ottomon sword a saber or scimitar just from simply being confused by the identical appearance of each unless they knew where the sword originated or was being used. For example, say some european guy travels to turkey and pawns his family heirloom, the sword is then bought by some american tourist, what do you suppose he'll call it? A saber, karabela, sword, or scimitar? Odds are, he'll misidentify it as a scimitar unless he knows it comes from europe. Words have meanings and often people don't know when the word they're familiar with is descriptive or prescriptive, such as scimitars being descriptive, not prescriptive, of middle eastern curved blades. Switching tracks, I'll use a fairly familiar and well known video game to illustrate my point; FF7. In the game, one of the most recognizable weapons, the Masamune, are consistently referred to as a Katana. Katana is a general term for japanese swords so, by your logic, this is inaccurate because katana come in varying sizes, from the tanto, to the wakizashi, to the katana/tachi, to the nodachi or odachi. In FF7 the masamune is a very long sword that would be described as an odachi, but nobody really calls it that they just call it a 7 foot katana. People know that it's big and it's abnormally sized and that katana isn't really the name for it, but they use it anyway because it's easily recognizable and you don't have to worry about miscommunicating the nature of the sword. Likewise, when describing a scimitar, you're describing an exotic (to europe) curved blade. That's not bad, and it's no more racist than referring to an odachi as a katana when in reality all it is is a japanese longsword. Anyway, I've put more effort into addressing some old and incredibly obtuse video than is worth it, but these are things I really think need addressing. Bad video is bad and you should feel sad you didn't really think this through.

[@neilklima5467]

the scimitar is the blade with the triangular bend on the spine that allows the tip of the spine to have a grind, but yes, palas, kilijes, and shamshirs exist too. thank you for wasting 6 minutes of my life.

[@ChitrakChattopadhyay]

It's pronounced talwar as if you are talking with a lisp like Mike Tyson, instead of saying t with your toungue touching the bottom of your front teeth, say t starting with your toungue touching your front teeth and the top of your mouth, it should make a taww or taow sound. So it sounds like tawlwar, although it's not spelled as such, there is no English letter for taw, taw is like the middle letter between the t in tall and the th in thaw, in Indian languages it goes taw, thaw, daw (as in then), and dhaw(as in date). Talwaar, shamshiir, Trishul(look this one up), Toloar(in my mother tongue). Thank you.

[@fenixwulfheart454]

Also, there are NO "prototypical" examples of a type of sword. There is no need for Platonic forms here, lol.

[@muayboran6111]

Funny how “curved swords” were enslaved by humans and the word scimitar is still used to refer to them even after they are no longer used in wars… damn racist