why smeefu is WRONG about lucky shot

[@smeefu]

thanks for the in depth explanation, tho this wasn’t my comment, doin gods work. though i still think the item is bad, crippling headshot or inhibitor way more value, especially because lucky shot can’t headshot, and when hitting ult for example you’re literally only gonna headshot. lucky shot may be a good late late buy, like 3rd luxury item, i really believe its dreadful to buy it first on this hero.

[@deruitsu]

yea the video was mostly directed at the people who dont understand how lucky shot actually works and not you, sorry i used your video as clickbait. i also agree that lucky shot has very little value the earlier u get it when you dont have the weapon damage to make it shine yet and is best bought later into the game.

[@smeefu]

@@deruitsu i respect the hustle

[@deruitsu]

@@smeefu u too bro

[@saintyoo]

@@deruitsu I did some testing with a full build, only changing out 1 item. Three mag dumps each. Per bullet average (NOT DPS): Lucky shot +18.3% (+13.0% with ability 3) Glass Cannon +19.8% (+18.0% with ability 3) Frenzy +11.6% (+11.1% with ability 3) So yeah, my original comment was off. If it was correct, lucky shot would be similar to frenzy. Another takeaway is that since wraith's 3 does spirit, total damage doesn't scale as well. Also lucky shot was a smaller percent increase in damage full build compared to no build.

[@Etruscots]

I'm still not sold on lucky shot, that late into the game is going to be a marginal improvement of the time to kill a target, but the amount of value you could get with Inhibitor or Crippling Headshot (item that can also get higher DPS not taking into account the resistance reduction) it completely blows it of the water. There is also a lot of options for game changing items that sure they don't give you damage but they can win you the game like Curse, Soul Rebirth and Unstoppable.

[@katsuyaokubo]

Can't wait for "why deruitsu is wrong about smeefu being wrong about lucky shot"

[@deruitsu]

@@katsuyaokubo me too bro

[@nokyap4638]

this is actually the case

[@_iao_]

Lucky Shot starts making sense when you value the movement slow and already have a high amount of weapon damage increases.

[@meat.]

lucky shot = body shot bandit

[@Terra-UwU]

EDIT: Read @Taziod comment below. so, I think OP was pointing out that 35% of the time, you crit for an additional 90% of your total damage. Not that the damage show is . The 31.5% weapon damage number that was throw out, is an average of the damage, since that 90% damage crit has a 35% chance to happen. In other words, on average, lucky shot's passive provides a 31.5% gun damage increase to your current gun damage. Does that make sense? You can test this out by simply comparing the DPS, using the console command hud_damagemeter true, between lucky shot's 49.5% weapon damage increase (18% innate to the tier + 31.5% average of passive trigger) VS. High velo mag & Close Quarter total 49% weapon bonus ((HVM: 6% innate + 12% stats =18% total) + (CQ: 6% innate + 25% conditional = 31%)). IIRC lucky shot's passive, when triggered, does proc an additional "bullet passive" that is not a cooldown related passive (like haze passive, infernis passive, etc). So there is something to be said about that value provided there. You should be able to confirm with haze passive and MAYBE wraith's 3rd ability with the spirit damage upgrade.

[@deruitsu]

@@Terra-UwU nice summery. i have tested with wraith 3 and it doesn't apply a second proc unfortunately but yea i know for a fact haze passive does get an extra proc when lucky shot procs

[@Etgeko21]

@@deruitsu It does not affect Haze ult though, so kinda questionable item on her again. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[@Taziod]

You're right about the effective damage being 1/3 of the proc damage based on the chance. But lucky shot scales with your weapon damage differently than the other items. So there's this break point where your weapon items have increased your weapon damage so far past your base damage, even if it only procs 1/3 of the time you will do significantly more dps with lucky shot

[@Etgeko21]

@@Taziod There is definately a breakpoint where 31.5% more will be better then additive on base on a different item+other stats. But may be it should have been calculated here or compared with the same setup here to claim it's most damage.

[@Terra-UwU]

@@Taziod yeah I was just doing some test to confirm my statements and oh boy did I miss a crucial detail, lol. That being the bonus damage is flat (?) So, in theory, LS would be best on low base damage rounds?

[@AliMAdnan-gj7tj]

Here's an extra explanation on the video with calculating the damage of 10 bullets because lucky shot has 35% of hitting ((Lucky shot vs glass cannon without any additions)) • Lucky shot: 170 for 10 bullets (35% chance of hitting a lucky shot which will deal 24 per lucky shot and 86 per 10 bullets assuming that you hit only 3.5 lucky shots per 10 bullets) • Glass cannon: 206 per 10 bullets So here if we compare both without any additional items that increase weapon damage Sure the glass cannon would be a better choice But Lucky shot shines when you damage output is already high with other damage items Like point blank and pristine emblem Because here the lucky shot will add a bonus damage to ur current damage not to your base damage as in glass cannon So if we add point blank and pristine emblem our final damage output would be (~24) which glass cannon will not benefit form this extra damage because it multiples the base damage (11) while lucky shot multiples the final damage (24) ((Now we will compare between them with point blank and pristine emblem added)) Lucky shot: 371 per 10 bullets Glass cannon: 335 per 10 bullets And probably the value of the damage of lucky shot will be much higher due to bonus damage from other items and the extra damage from T1 , T2 , T3 and T4

[@AliMAdnan-gj7tj]

So really the choice depends on the build if you have high final weapon damage so lucky shot is better if not then pick glass cannon

[@AliMAdnan-gj7tj]

And LS is not consistent because you are not going to hit all your shots So its recommended only if you could hit all your shots If ur aim is bad then glass cannon is better

[@godlyvex5543]

@@AliMAdnan-gj7tj I don't think this applies at all? you could get unlucky and have only crits miss but you could also get lucky and only hit crits. It's the same either way, literally doesn't matter unless you are unlucky and you are just as likely to get lucky

[@tijskievit8352]

If you actually watched the video and didnt get stunlocked by a comment smeef explained why he didnt like the item. He tested the dps of both lucky shot and crippling headshot for example and lucky shot is only slightly more which isnt worth it when other stats are worse and you dont debuff both bullet and spirit resist for your entire team. He knows the damage is multiplicative but the value is still not enough compared to other items.

[@jm-holm]

If (IF) you land headshots to keep the resist procs on, then crippling and LS have the same damage output. crippling does have the better debuff but with my bodyshot aim if I hit at all, I'm probably not going to keep that proc up enough to get close in dps.

[@deruitsu]

i did watch the whole video. i also didnt say crippling hs was better or worse on wraith compared to lucky shot. in the ideal high dps build, you should have weapon damage and attack speed before bullet resist reduction and crit. both lucky shot and crippling hs are great items on wraith and even better when you have both of them with a good amount of weapon damage with them. i have nothing against smeefu and enjoy watching his videos and find them to be informative, but i dont agree with lucky shot being useless on wraith and this video is to explain why

[@nokyap4638]

yeah this video here is misleading.. also deruitsu doesnt understand the comment he labeled as "the damage is completely off" which actually is completely right. He is saying the bonus damage multiplied by the proc chance is 31.5% more damage which is correct. Lucky shot isn't as bad as smeefu made it out to be but its worse than other T4 gun items

[@tijskievit8352]

@@jm-holm its 20 second debuff and idk how you cant hit a single headshot on a 100 ammo full fire rate wraith, at that point building items isnt the problem

[@tijskievit8352]

@@deruitsu you only explain how it works, you dont explain why its better then the other 6k items. If its worse then other options then its a bad item.

[@papajero4074]

mathemann moment nice

[@jeremyhicks4517]

This title is such click bait lol. He clearly explains why Lucky Shot is bad. All this math you did was directed towards a random person commenting on his video. Smeefu never even said he agreed with this the comment you highlighted. All he was saying is there are tier IV items that provide more weapon damage, and or more overall value than Lucky Shot. That's all he said. And he is correct. You get more dps with Crippling Headshot, Glass Cannon, and Siphon Bullets. While Lucky Shot will out perform other Tier IV's in Weapon damage, there are other Tier IV items that provide more value than Lucky Shot. Hense why Lucky Shot is bad. Especially compared to other Tier IV items. You may only get 2-4 Tier IV's in a game. Why grab Lucky Shot when it's dps is outperformed by 3 other Tier IV items that also provide more value?

[@chrishaven1489]

By itself that makes sense. But I'm pretty sure Lucky Shot is an item you're supposed to get to compliment your fast fire rate. The faster you fire your weapon, the more likely bonus activates. Also, it's not just about the damage. It also has a slow which is also a good thing

[@deruitsu]

yes the thumbnail and title is clickbait and the video was aimed at the commenters instead. but i also dont agree that lucky shot is useless on wraith. i think there are other tier 4 items that provide equal value but they all give different things. with the right build lucky shot gives more dps than crippling hs but at the end of the day both are great items on wraith in my opinion. the reason you grab lucky shot is when you have huge amounts of weapon damage lucky shot becomes the most dps item. the value changes based on your current build.

[@jeremyhicks4517]

@@chrishaven1489 Wouldn't you rather get more damage from other Tier IV's with a weapon that has high fire rate? I would. If you want a Tier IV that guaranteed slows on every bullet, provides damage, and more value. Just pick up Inhibiter or Silencer. Both have less DPS than Lucky Shot. However 6 seconds of silence on whatever you shoot every 36 seconds seems very strong. Also decreasing enemy damage by 35% seems like a great way to win a trade, and may even prevent a teammate from dying.

[@jeremyhicks4517]

@@deruitsu I never said Lucky Shot is useless. Every item has a use. However it's bad compared to a lot of other Tier IV items. Also Lucky shot does not outperform Crippling Headshot. You know you can test these things in Sandbox mode right? You're allowed to like Lucky Shot. If you find success with it that's great! But when I can only have enough souls to buy 2-4 Tier IV items a game. Lucky Shot ain't gonna be there for me. On anyone. If I'm playing Wraith. Crippling Headshot and Inhibitor are usually my go to Tier IV's. Not only do they help me do more damage and help me stay alive. But it also makes your team do more damage and will help keep them alive. Lucky Shot won't do that.

[@deruitsu]

@@jeremyhicks4517 it wasnt you who said lucky shot was useless. it was smeefu who i was referring to. but yea i agree

[@loopsad8826]

I knew something was off when he mentioned how LS is a bad item, thanks for clarifying :)

[@deruitsu]

haha yea. im mostly just correcting the comments cause they did the math wrong and was spreading misinformation

[@nokyap4638]

it is not necessarily bad its just worse than other t4 gun items like crippling headshot thats also what he said in his video

[@TylerSmith-oz7ry]

@@deruitsu you are literally the one doing the math wrong. Your math fails to consider that the proc only happens 35% of the time.

[@deruitsu]

@@TylerSmith-oz7ry -_- i never said it procs 100% of the time i just said that if it procs its +90% of the current damage per bullet it amounts to around 31.5% damage multiplier on top of the weapon damage

[@angelcastiel7876]

LS isn’t a bad item but i don’t think its good on wraith who you can build to have infinite ability 3 uptime.

[@ВоваЧернуха-б3ь]

but if you test this, lucky shot gives you less damage then glass canon or crippling headshot even if you have 6 damage items.

[@Taziod]

So lucky shot crit is multiplicative and the others are additive essentially?

[@deruitsu]

@@Taziod yes. there's also other ways to multiply damage like bullet resist reduction

[@mazafukaH3]

tldr : yes

[@lukkkasz323]

yes, because it's not weapon damage, it's a crit, works similarly to Mystic Reverb.

[@noahwick3217]

appreciate this- genuinely valuable to the community

[@iampower5547]

So whats the best build for maximum ammo minigun build for wraith? I want atleast 200 ammo and combine with active reload and quicksilver reload its unlimited kinda 😊

[@deruitsu]

wraith has very high base ammo so she gets more value from ammo increase % items. maybe you could try something like quicksilver reload -> intensifying mag -> shrpshooter-> lucky shot. (this gives +75% ammo [91 ammo] while giving you very good damage) you can get active reload and titanic mag if you want but usually at some point you have enough ammo and want to focus on other things like survivability and damage.

[@franktownsend3483]

i think taking inhibitor over luckyshot isnt a terrible idea though. depending on if you feel like you do enough damage or not though

[@deruitsu]

@@franktownsend3483 in my opinion, although both items slow, they have completely different roles in the game. it was pretty strange to see smeefu say its better to go for inhibitor for slow is better when there is a 1250 gold item in the game called slowing hex that is much better at slowing enemies due to disabling movement abilities and weakening dash. in short lucky shot is a pure dps item that gives u crit and a bigger mag all while making your target easier to hit due to the slow. while inhibitor is bought to fill a different role

[@BobSmith-mi3gc]

@@deruitsu Slowing Hex is a single target slow with a 3 second duration on a 26 second cooldown that takes up an active item slot. That's not really comparable to Inhibitor's 2.5 second duration slow on EVERY bullet (not a 35% chance like LS), AND it applies a -35% damage debuff - which is likely the overall strongest passive debuff in the game, especially late game.

[@franktownsend3483]

@@deruitsu it’s just a good item. It slows reduces enemy damage, and gives you a lot of health. I was running card wraith and on that build it was super nice as an extra luxury item.

[@franktownsend3483]

@@deruitsu I don’t think it’s better it’s just not a bad option

[@deruitsu]

@@franktownsend3483 yes i also think they are both situationally good items

[@ayo4008]

Hes calculating total damage increase, because lucky shot has a 35% chance that means that in total you will shoot 54 dmg 35% of the time and total damage increase is only 31.5% its more about a total output

[@joeybobbson2622]

Next you'll tell me that it double dips bleeds and oh great now this game is just Warframe

[@arkeuz3386]

we don't have exponentially scaling crits yet, it's finnnne

[@joeybobbson2622]

@@arkeuz3386" 2.1 billion damage" ahhh comment 💀

[@KaRzye]

lucky police

[@deruitsu]

*math police 🤓☝️

[@Alfie-ni7lx]

I knew when I picked up that item I started slapping.. Was a bit taken back when I watched the video.

[@deruitsu]

yea same. thats y i started testing cause i knew for sure the numbers in the comments where wrong

[@cerulean5032]

I didn't know it worked like that at all, thx for clarifying.

[@deruitsu]

@@cerulean5032 np brother

[@jacksonperez5615]

I don’t even use lucky shot, but does it affect the spirit damage done by your gun as well. Because if that’s the case it may be broken

[@deruitsu]

@@jacksonperez5615 it doesnt in wraiths case but a lot of the time it does affect passives for the char like haze etc. but i havent tested all the interactions so im not sure if it would affect vindicta 2 and others. maybe ill test when im free and share my findings. will see

[@jacksonperez5615]

@@deruitsu got you, also have you tried the spirit build on wraith, it is a sleeper build I haven’t seen anyone talk about

[@BobSmith-mi3gc]

Did everyone not see the DPS meter in Smeefu's video? Lucky Shot was ~130 dps LOWER than Crippling Headshot. You can test this yourself by enabling the meter in console with hud_damagemeter true Buy your full items and compare the DPS of Lucky Shot vs Crippling Headshot, or whatever other item you want to compare. With full items, Lucky Shot is LOWER DPS than Crippling Headshot, Glass Cannon (0 stacks), Frenzy (within the passive range), Intensifying Magazine, Heroic Aura active, Vampiric Burst active, and others. Try different combinations and see how high you can get it. In fact, Lucky Shot is only slightly stronger than the Active Reload passive (a 1,250 souls item).

[@ponaskompetencija]

dps is not equal to damage, the game needs to constantly re-calculate the numbers after each shot, if you did 20 bullet damage, your dps is lower, if you did 40 damage, it goes higher

[@BobSmith-mi3gc]

@@ponaskompetencija You are very confused. DPS tracks damage over time (a full magazine for example). If one item is doing more DPS than a different item, it is in fact doing more damage. The TTK is so high in this game that DPS is the only metric that matters. The higher the DPS = the lower the TTK.

[@ponaskompetencija]

@@BobSmith-mi3gc no, you are the confused one here. You clearly don't understand how the game works

[@BobSmith-mi3gc]

@@ponaskompetencija So you're claiming the game's built in DPS meter is wrong? Do you have any proof or are you just talking out of your ass?

[@Taziod]

So sick they have that in the game

[@godlyvex5543]

god why is your game so much louder than your voice, it hurts

[@deruitsu]

@@godlyvex5543 my bad g

[@kajbalm6733]

Thnx for explaining. You sound very quiet tho

[@deruitsu]

@@kajbalm6733 haha sorry about that. thanks for feedback

[@lowzhun1]

makes sense, i had a game where i got glass cannon and lucky shot and my damage was thru the roof

[@Etgeko21]

Though your math is correct, your results are kinda in a vacuum and you are not talking about lucky chance at all. If you already went claiming it's more damage, why not directly compare endgame DPS with other itms in the build?

[@deruitsu]

@@Etgeko21 i didnt compare it any other item. i mostly made this video to show how lucky shot actually worked because many people in the comments of smeefus videos seemed to think lucky shot was equivalent to +31.5% weapon damage increase which it wasnt. what u do with the results is up to u, in my opinion in the ideal late game build you want to have 2-3 items dealing weapon damage or firerate into lucky shot and bullet resist reduction items as getting more weapon damge items fall off heavily late into the game.

[@windows7877]

​@@deruitsu Bro... It is 31,5% increase. We have three bullets, with 35% we usually will get one lucky. 27+27+52=106. Without lucky we will get 81. 106÷81=1.31. 31% damage increase. Which math you don't get?

[@Etgeko21]

@@windows7877 Sure, makes sense. It actually is exact this number, it's just a different multiplier, not additive with %weapon damage. And I don't think there is a claim that it is working differently in OP video. And this clears video clears this up nicely. But saying it's most damage and we can't get better result with a different item is very questionable.

[@deruitsu]

@@windows7877 yes it is a 31.5% weapon damage increase of your CURRENT WEAPON DAMAGE. however it is not equivalent to 31.5% BASE weapon damage like how most weapon damage is calculated. for example, on wraith if u have 40 dmg per bullet due to my items and i get an item like glass canon which increases my weapon damage by 88%, it would increase wraiths damage to 49.6 because the 88% increase is based on BASE weapon damage and not current. however if i have 40 damage and get lucky shot it would increase the damage by 31.5% of CURRENT weapon damage leading to 52.6 damage per bullet on average (and im not even counting the +18% weapon damage lucky shot gives being a tier 4)

[@windows7877]

@@deruitsu I literally used your example of wrath with damage items, what are you yapping about

[@TylerSmith-oz7ry]

The item is much worse than you are thinking. You are failing to take into account the 35% chance it procs which the comment was expressing. That .862068965517241 does not take into account that it will only happen 35% of the time.