Why some games lie to you

[@JadeStarLP]

I loved Life is Strange, and while you are mechanically right that no choice in the game changes the final option, save the town or save Chole... does that really matter? Your choices shape the experience you have, reflect on you and how you view things, and take you on a wonderful journey. It's the journey, not the destination. That old saying.

[@CyanMentality]

Me: Enjoying an indepth analysis on deception in games, up to the Spec Ops White Phosphorus scene. KZbin: *interrupts video to give me an ad for an outdoor gas cooker stove* Outstanding... Liked and subscribed lol

[@Pixel_Whip]

👀

[@marsalwin5101]

This video was how I learned about the Hellblade lie. I loved learning a new perspective on the game.

[@Pixel_Whip]

I had a feeling this would happen 😋

[@Cuiasodo]

36:30 The thing about Mass Effect is that it depends in what you consider to be the "ending" of the game. If you consider the last five minutes to be the end, then, yes, the choices you've made up until that point don't matter. But if you consider the whole third entry to be the end, boy howdy does it deliver. There are so many different branches and permutations of people being alive, dead, in good standing with Shepard, whether the council lived, what your relationship with the annoying gotcha journalist is, so much that has payoff and changes depending on choices you made. While I agree that the final choice could have integrated player choice better, honestly, it feels impossible for any game studio to incorporate every single choice in a game series that massive all into one moment at the end of the game.

[@Pixel_Whip]

Yes, good point and I agree with it. But that's why I focused on the ending and not the choices themselves like in LiS and TWD. This kind of thing happens a lot in RPGs more generally, but very few have the level of unique character development and interaction be so unique depending on your in-situ choices the way Mass Effect does.

[@fake_healer]

IIRC, in Deus Ex biochip upgrade was warranted, cause your UI is glitching at that time and this should "fix" that problem. Elaborate ruse, all along.

[@Pixel_Whip]

Yup, exactly!

[@Cuiasodo]

I think, also, you take some HP damage when some of those glitches happen. You heal back the health over time, but it does cause a moment of panic.

[@Forke13]

Prince of Persia II was it, I think. They didn't tell you, but the sand veins grew up the arm and it was implied that's bad and the other demon guy would take over. I mean I was like 12, but still :D

[@19Rinka86]

I’m glad you highlighted that sometimes the illusion of choice is done for emotional reasons. I for one loved ME3 and am dying on that hill that the colored endings don’t take away from the choices you make along the way that have real impact-just not on the ending. But they carry emotional weight at the very least and shape your experience and memories with the game. In ME3’s case I think about my choices far more often and much more as part of the experience and why I love the trilogy than which color my ending had. (btw I’m also ready defend the endings. they may not vary much but it’s their implications for your personal journey with the game that matters. how, in your mind, the world continues and in which state. One just has to give it more thought than taking what’s presented at face value)

[@Pixel_Whip]

My main issue with the ME3 endings is their lack of creativity *given* how detailed and rich the rest of the journey throughout the series was. But yes, this is why I didn't talk too much about Mass Effect in general in the video, because its choices do fall firmly into the bucket of being significant as they effect how relationships and events play out throughout the series before the ending. And I suppose they also help to contextualise the ending too (as you seem to imply). Loved reading this perspective.

[@19Rinka86]

@ Yes, totally see your point!! The execution of the different endings was lackluster for sure. Loved this video, such an interesting topic and you unpacked it in such a nuanced and differentiated way. #subbed

[@ccsam1516]

Love your analysis. You deserve more recognition than what you have based on this single video alone

[@Pixel_Whip]

And I love your comment

[@Il_Exile_lI]

The most dishonest and insulting lie I've experienced in a game was in the first Infamous game. There is a choice where the protagonist's girlfriend is kidnapped and he's presented with a very comic book inspired choice of having to choose to save 6 doctors or his girlfriend. If you make the good choice and save the doctors, his girlfriend dies as expected. If you choose to save the girlfriend, it's revealed that it was actually a trick and the woman you save was a decoy and the girlfriend was hidden among the doctors you let die. The game retroactively changes the nature of the situation based on your choice to ensure that the girlfriend always dies. It's only a trick if you try to save her, but if you let her die it wasn't a trick and she wasn't a decoy. It feels incredibly manipulative for the game to reshape the past to ensure that your choice results in the outcome they wanted.

[@Pixel_Whip]

This is a good one, for real one of the most blatant 'illusion of choice' situations

[@dandygardner9404]

The current discussion about the conflicts between the art of storytelling and the pressure to deliver traditional gameplay mechanics is really exciting. Amongst the games I personally played, The Missing : JJ Macfield and the Island of of Memory is a fascinating example. It's not a AAA game however.

[@maybeyourbaby6486]

Spec Ops: The Line feels really frustrating to me at face value, since I actively try to find non-lethal/less-lethal options in games where I can, and being denied that option and railroaded into something I don't want to do is already frustrating enough without also being mocked for it... but that's also my perspective as someone who's already experienced games like Dishonored and Deus Ex, and drawn lessons from them, so I feel like it's unfair to hold that against Spec Ops: The Line? I think the message gets SO MUCH CLEARER when you directly compare it to "The War on Terror" in real life - every American who signed up to "fight the terrorists" was also lied to (the big lie that Iraq had WMD:s crowning a whole web of smaller lies), does that absolve them of the horrors they committed? And the thing is, even when they became disillusioned in the field and realized they weren't actually the heroes they thought they were, it was too late to opt out. If the point that they went wrong was when they willingly signed up to go kill dirty stinking middle eastern terrorists, after which it did not matter if they realized they'd been duped because they no longer had a choice, is it really so wrong to put the player in the same place in SO:TL? The deceptive marketing is such a shady business move, but it is the thing that makes it work. The whole story hinges on the player going in with completely unrealistic expectations. I want to be mad, but, as someone who's had games like Sniper Elite V2 sitting unplayed in my steam library for more than a decade because military shooters just don't appeal to me... clearly, Spec Ops: The Line was not made for people like me... and that's the whole point. It DID give me a choice, and I picked the right option. Not sure how I feel about that, but I really respect it.

[@Pixel_Whip]

There's an interesting discussion about how much Spec Ops is just a commentary on military shooter games as a genre which just happens to involve war as a trope of the genre, and how much is an actual deliberate message on war itself. That's a different and much larger thing, but as you make clear, there's a lot to talk about there.

[@therruefalse9984]

Good video, keep up the work! Maybe you could make a video about game mechanics and core gameplay loops being used against the player in meta-narratives, like Bugsnax or Undertale?

[@Pixel_Whip]

Love that idea

[@nikolasshum9321]

Love your videos and analysis! Thanks for the awesome video!

[@Pixel_Whip]

Thanks heaps! Glad you liked it. (And you better not be lying)

[@famglorie123]

Great video lad enjoyed it thourgoly

[@Pixel_Whip]

Thanks :)

[@flugal_rere]

Great video.

[@Pixel_Whip]

Thanks!

[@Katwind]

Ok, so the lie on Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice is not because it says there is permadeath but there isn't, rather, the lie lies in the perceived intention of the message. Because the line seems to be a warning and therefore something to be avoided, but it's just spoiling the end of the story. The rot gets to Senua's head, that is the end of her quest. And she ends her quest by renouncing it, which includes losing all progress towards it.

[@kevinsiscoe]

What an amazing gem of a video. Though provoking and well explained. Sub and a like from me!

[@Pixel_Whip]

Thank you so much!

[@nowaht]

Is there a difference between deception and lying?

[@MrJohnmirelli]

It doesn’t kill u because it’s all in senuas head none of it is real

[@Jay_daewi]

He knows dawg

[@Seoul_Soldier]

Spec Ops: The Line, in my opinion, did a better job of subverting expectations than The Last of Us 2. Both of them force you to do things you don't want to do, but for me at least Spec Ops was more affecting. And less dumb.