Why Some People Don’t ‘See’ Mental Imagery: Aphantasia

[@QuantaScienceChannel]

To learn more about aphantasia, read the Quanta Magazine article "What Happens in a Mind That Can’t ‘See’ Mental Images" - www.quantamagazine.org/what-happens-in-a-mind-that-cant-see-mental-images-20240801/

[@pietpetrus2343]

dont ppl with that dream at all ??

[@rotors_taker_0h]

@@pietpetrus2343 we dream, the only time I see mental images is in sleep

[@pietpetrus2343]

@ thankyou

[@Leonharadra]

I also have aphantasia and the first time I took mirtazipine (as an antidepressant), for the first 2-3 days I suddenly could see things visually before I went to sleep. (I took it in the evening) First I just laid in bed, suddenly I started to see lights after I closed my eyes. I thought I hallucinate or something. But then I started to imagine scenes of nature and etc. After a few days the effect vanished. But that (unfortunately short lived) experience was really nice.

[@tv-cd3yy]

Here's my experience with visualization & depression- I'm 19 and have had aphantasia for most of my life. But last year I suffered a lot from mental health, and that has somehow activated my visualization powers, it even kicked out my self-destruct ideations. I didn't really used to have dreams, but now I do, at least when I am going through a particularly rough patch. I can visualize a bit too if I concentrate really hard. Mental illnesses bloom when we avoid the subconscious. My subconscious "the shadow" leaked by activating visualization which at least made me acknowledge it.

[@S0-102]

@@tv-cd3yy It is not illness. It is like being left handed or right handed...or if you have inner monologue or not.

[@b.clarenc9517]

Can you still remember the imagery you imagined during these few days?

[@Leonharadra]

@ Yeah.

[@anxylum]

could you control the imagery, or was it involuntary?

[@kimberly4275]

Still makes me kinda depressed that I can't visualize anything in my head or hear any voices in my head. Used to get me a lot when I first learned about it. Thought people are always joking when they said stuff like "imagine jumping a sheep over a fence" or how they talk about learning things. It just kinda feels unfair.

[@momomtjiddu3920]

do you have dreams ??

[@kimberly4275]

@ Very, very rarely, but even in those I don't really see stuff. It's kinda hard to put the experience into words. It's like you can almost see it, but don't.

[@oldones59]

I feel for you. See a licensed mental health therapist. Show them this video. Best of luck 😊

[@NC-hu6xd]

You have no soul

[@thanos879]

@@NC-hu6xd ☠

[@Dissimulate]

Apparently, I have aphantasia, but my spacial reasoning abilities are still extremely good. When I was younger, I also assumed that "imagine" and "picture in your mind" were metaphorical. I don't have to "see" mental imagery to recall how things look or solve any problem. It turns out that visual imagery isn't necessary. I do appreciate, however, that my dreams are very vibrant.

[@MK-je7kz]

Same. I do, for instance, "which of these objects are that object, but from different direction" tests well above average. I just can't "see" them in my mind. My brain can do the "math", but I can't see operations. It's probably a lot like a blind person walking in their house and handling objects: they know where everything is and how they move, but they can't see them. I have had previous experiences which puzzled me at the time, but with aphantasia they make sense: I was with a group and we made a stress relieve exercise with hypnotism kind of thing. "Close your eyes and imagine..." I of course couldn't imagine anything, so I was so bored to just listen this guy talking gibberish to me. How this was supposed to help was my primary thought. And wondering if I was incapable of being hypnotized. Another thing is using "memory palace" for remembering things. I have tried to use the technique several times, but I never could understand why it's supposed to help anything. It was/is much much more difficult trying to remember where I left the "stuff" (numbers for instance) than to just remember them in the first place.

[@edwardgrigoryan3982]

When you say your dreams are vibrant, what do you mean? They are rich with conceptual detail? Of a knowledge of events transpired within the dream, but none of it is associated with imagery that you can recall? I'm actually particularly curious about the relationship between aphantasia and dreams so I'm glad you wrote this.

[@snylekkie]

How do you recall how things look ?

[@MeatBunFul]

I just think all you people are psychopaths lol

[@Леонид-ч2е]

Same here, when i try to imagine something i can somehow know it's shape or other features but this experience is not visual, also i can draw from memory just knowing how it should look but with no "qualia", at first i was kinda disappointed, but the i realised that there is nothing i can't do that normal people can.

[@johnyharris]

I get the grey velvety fog, no images at all. I only discovered that this wasn't normal when I entered therapy who rely on mental imagery a lot. My therapist had not heard of it. This needs greater awareness in therapeutic services as an alternative psychotherapy method should be available.

[@Psychx_]

I think I lean more towards the hyperphantasia side of things. When someone explains to me a new concept or tells me about their experiences and I'm interested, I percieve my mental image way stronger than what my actual eyes see in that moment. If someone is good at explaining things in a way that creates a mental image, it's as if they're drawing directly into my mind. When writing a story, I see it play inside of my mind, instead of watching the sheet of paper I'm writing on. And when I dream, it's a 5D experience - color vision, dolby surround, tactile perception and sometimes also taste and smell. Details also involve readable text and clocks that make sense, which AFAIK is somewhat unusual.

[@axeldewater9491]

I can create a whole experience around me that never happened to me as if I were in that situation which I would not be able to distinguish from a real memory.

[@Psychx_]

@ Seems like you have no need to do psychoactive substances then :P Have you ever spawned a harem in your mind?

[@NonBinary_Star]

yep same with me. ALL the nuisance and detail down to granularity. ALL of the senses. it's awesome but also a lot of times tiresome and inescapable. but awesome for creativity when i'm making stuff

[@axeldewater9491]

@ Just did that VVIQ test, and they have some pretty hard questions, but still got hyperphantasia out of it.

[@axeldewater9491]

@ Well of course I have lmao

[@mgillespiedesign]

Well done- Quanta is consistently some of the best science content out there!

[@DanMcGown]

I never realized I was missing anything. My memories of appearance are descriptive, in words. I thought it was that way for everyone and "visualize" was a metaphor. I was 77 years old when my son brought this phenomenon to my attention. I still think it's odd that you people can "see" things that aren't really there.

[@knightmagnus8497]

It's fascinating to me reading your comment. I am on the other end of this, where the visualizations are hyper vivid, but also can be uncontrollable unless I open my eyes. On the positive side, I can imagine entire worlds around me by just closing my eyes. I unfortunately don't lucid dream (have control during it) very often but they are the same vividness as my wakeful imagining. Oddly, Intentionally imagining a single object is a hit or miss. If i clear my mind sometimes things just appear from the darkness. The concept of recalling something through the associating concepts is very rational for our brains hierarchical structure of pattern recognition (thanks Ray Kurtzweil!) but not something I've ever even conceived of being used as a tool for imagining. It makes me think of Sherlock mind palace. Your world blows my mind, Dan.

[@zetristan4525]

I recently caught the moment where I woke up from dreaming, where I experience vivid color scenes, and thereafter even tho I could remember my dream, I couldn't _see_ any of the images anymore, no matter how hard I try! I have an exceptionally good memory, so I can tell you precisely where thousands of structures are situated on eg Table Mountain - and I can play simultaneous games of blindfold chess - yet I can't "see" and of my memories. It's like I can give myself virtual tours operating on blindsight! Been asking knowledgeable people their opinions on this for years... 🦉

[@patrikmajc5444]

I am almost certain I have complete Aphantasia - no images, just black on black. But somehow... I can still recall faces and things and almost anything. It's very hard to put into words, but the image is - and at the same time isn't there... I can trace the person's face with my mental cursor in my mind, but there's no actual face. It's like trying to write with a pen that ran out of ink, or drawing with a finger on somebody's skin... I can tell what the pen or the finger is trying to show me, but there's no writing, no residue. Just plain nothing with a hint... and that hint - that mental cursor - is all I rely on, all I can put my greatest effort to. And it does take a lot of effort indeed. Another thing is, with this I can only recal static images. My mind cannot trace anything in motion, the blank drawing just works for immovable scenes. And when I try to force that idea of an image to move, it doesn't budge. But like others have said, my dreams tend to have images. It's all very weird. I hope this comment maybe helps someone! We're not alone in this.

[@eSKAone-]

That's totally normal and you're not special. Go back to your life now

[@SpwnTheBitcoinOverlord]

Same for me

[@minicello231]

Thanks for your comment! It really helps me understand what it's like for people with aphantasia. I have a question: What is it like to remember directions? Can you give directions to people? For example, if you have to tell them to turn left, go down a flight of stairs, walk a few blocks, take the subway, etc, I feel like you'd have to picture these places and movements in your head.

[@Max-cc7iz]

I have exactly the same experience, that's a great way of describing it, thanks

[@TonyLinde]

That's a great explanation of how I imagine things. Except that I can imagine movement in a way: I can imagine moving something around to get different perspectives on it exactly as if I'm looking at it but with no actual images. My dreams, that I recall, are much like this too - more like I'm telling a story to my self as a different person - though, if I am on the verge of waking, I do, very occasionally - once or twice a year -experience mental imagery.

[@Dyues]

Although paradoxically, aphants do have visual dreams. I also notice in myself that the ability to imagine seems to be inversely proportional to the attentiveness of the mind. If I focus, try to imagine it is impossible, but in a relaxed, diffused state of mind or mind wandering like in the shower or right before falling asleep, I feel these flashes of imaginations. The mere awareness terminates the action of imagining. Perhaps I can imagine freely, but I am not aware of it, but if I try to be aware, I stop imagining. I can't watch myself whilst also me trying to imaging something, it's like trying to do two things at the same time.

[@thatchessguy7072]

I’ve never heard of hyperphantasia before this video but I strongly suspect I have it: Every day for as long as I can remember I’ve spent hours using my minds eye to imagine fictional stories for my own entertainment. It is like having one foot in two worlds when I close my eyes and pace. While I can simulate touch, smell, and taste in my mind I find just focusing on the visual and audio simulating lends itself to a more entertaining experience. Recently I spent some time memorizing professional games of baduk too. Sometimes I replay the games in my head without a board. Even as I’m writing this the board positions are popping into my head. Oftentimes I will superimpose my minds eye onto what I see. This is not a change in visual perception, but it’s as if you can sense something invisible there. It helps with drawing when I superimpose what I want to draw onto a sketch, mathematics and physics (for obvious reasons), and keeping up with a conversations by drawing charts and graphs to follow along. The negative aspects they mentioned, TBF are there too. I experienced extreme stress and social isolation during the pandemic for months and I try not to remember that room. Stepping back in there in my mind brings about feelings of sadness and distress.

[@chrisharrison198]

I'm 58 and literally just now discovering my inner 'blindness' isn't normal. I always assumed that no one saw anything. The strange thing for me is I have a vivid imagination and can visualize things, it's just there's no mental image. Zero. Yet, if I imagine an apple I can draw it, with whatever details I 'picture', but there's no mental image in my mind. As strange / paradoxical as that sounds. There have also been a couple of instances where I was shown a vivid mental image in response to a question I asked my guides. So I know my 'inner screen' can function, it's just turned off for some reason. Quite strange...

[@FelipeSugimoto182]

Imho, you are normal. You just process the world in a different way. I wonder if your condition ever impacted negatively in your life. I found out recently that I also have aphantasia. At the same time that I can't imagine how it is to have a mind's eye, I found out that I can at least hear things (like the orchestra playing Star Wars main theme). I try to use this as a correlation to imagine how it is to have a mind's eye (and I think that it should be awesome!). When I found out that I couldn't see anything, I also thought that I wasn't normal, but later after reading a lot of studies I realized that we just think and live the world differently. I also have a vivid imagination and can visualize things (but not the same as "seeing things") and there are a lot of creative people that also have aphantasia (like illustrators artists and people that work with creativity).

[@rotors_taker_0h]

Welcome to the club, it is not a bad place to be, tbh

[@jonathan.gasser]

Well, I can think of a very clear advantage to aphantasia. Your conscious mind is free of cluter (especially if you also have the absence of an inner voice as well), so it's a lot easier to reach flow states and make connections between disparate concepts (which require slow modes of thought).

[@JuanHugeJanus]

Yes and side effects of meditation. Strange to make it a "problem"... anatman - atman: I prefer anatman

[@anxylum]

I wish, but that has not been the case for me since I have developed aphantasia. I have FAR more anxiety and suffer more from it now than I ever did before when I still had my coping mechanism of visualization.

[@jonathan.gasser]

@@anxylumOh that sucks. How did you get aphantasia? I've had the complete version since birth (except for a few trippy geometrical hallucinations in the dark as a child), so there's nothing for me to miss.

[@anxylum]

@@jonathan.gasser I don’t know how I got it. My doctors and therapists think it was due to psychological trauma. I just lost the ability to visualize one night and it hasn’t come back yet.

[@jonathan.gasser]

@ Wow, that's quite incredible, how old were you? Well, if it can reassure you, I live a wonderful and fulfilling life, even if I don't have the ability to visualize. I don't see it as a handicap at all (seriously!)

[@AsterothPrime]

Holy crap, just tried this and realised I can't visualise anything either! But I can still dream in full technicolor and see objects clearly in my sleep. I always thought I had a good imagination, yet never tried to visualise anything in my conscious mind.

[@hansdaakamoewg4740]

can you rotate cubes in your head?

[@AsterothPrime]

@hansdaakamoewg4740 Not entirely. I would have to imagine that the cube was there and assign an imaginary dot to one of the sides and follow its theoretical position as the cube rotates. I see nothing, yet track it as if it were data

[@hansdaakamoewg4740]

@@AsterothPrime imaginary dot? So you can imagine the dot?

[@AsterothPrime]

@@hansdaakamoewg4740 Imagine, but not see, like it exists beyond the darkness.

[@rotors_taker_0h]

Same, sometimes I catch myself falling asleep when my thoughts are suddenly become visual and I notice that I actually dream in my sleep and not just thinking as usual.

[@rfwhyte]

I have a fairly bad case of visual Aphantasia. I can't really "See" images in my head, and if I try to remember or picture something visual, I'll get a very brief, sort of split second image of the thing I'm trying to visualize, but its like the opacity of the image has been turned way down so it's kind of translucent and ephemeral, but also somehow very dark and it never lasts more than a moment and there's not much I can do to hold the image or make it any brighter or more vibrant. When I close my eyes, I don't really see anything at all for the most part, and there's just kind of an inky blackness most of the time. That being said, I have very intense audio visualizations, and can hear a perfect recreation of anyone's voice I'd like in my head, and can conjure entire pieces of music from nothing in my head at will, which has always been very frustrating as I have no actual musical skills to allow me to turn the music in my head into real music. My dreams are also intensely vivid when I remember them. I do get a weird thing from time to time though where I'll have this like "Crack" or small hole of this incredibly intense and vivid light in the blackness of my mind, that almost feels like a tiny little window into the vividness of my dreams or something beyond reality as these little cracks or holes of light are in some ways more vivid and real than even reality itself. I also have a very strong ability to remember facts, figures and events, much more so than the average person.

[@momong6246]

I don't believe I have "Aphantasia", but I have difficulties imagining complex objects (especially faces). It's just simple shapes and simple movements. But, interestingly, I also have this incredible ability for audio visualizations. I can play a music piece, song, voice, etc with multiple instruments, different lyrics, etc. Almost to the point that there's not much difference between me listening to a real music or imagining it, other than it being more repetitive or vague when I don't remember the music/lyrics well yet. Cool to know I'm not alone in this audio thing,

[@fullyawakened]

That's not aphantasia that is a completely normal mental image. A brief flicker. The people that pretend to have this are either confused or just lying. Perhaps they think if someone asks them to think of an apple and they don't see a bright red apple in front of them as clear as day then they must have aphantasia. Even blind people have imagery in the minds. Deaf people have a dialogue in their minds. There's no escaping it

[@conbrio27]

@rfwhyte Is there visual imagery in your dreams?

[@eSKAone-]

It's because you are all NPCs in my world

[@8__vv__8]

Lucid dreaming should still work.

[@KevinLarsson42]

Since way back I had suspected I have aphantasia, the emotional disconnect with memories, trouble recalling memories, and the imagination is more analytical (terms, shapes, hierarchies, connections) rather than visual. But in recent years I feel I have decreased my aphantasia. This is done through pro-cholinergic supplements (Brahmi extract) and through the use of drugs (Edibles, LSD) and meditating, simply being alone inside my head and exploring the boundaries of my mind. Now the shadowy velvety veil has been lifted and I started to see in color. First I feel I had complete aphantasia; but after some time I was able to see a "real" red color if I imagined an apple, however I would only be be able to view one color at a time, so I would be able to see the green leaves if I focused on them but the redness of the apple would disappear and vice versa. Nowadays I can imagine an apple and see both a "real" red and green simultaneously, being able to see the whole picture. It is notable to mention I am in my early twenties so I still have some brain plasticity, this might explain my experiences.

[@Jeffthought]

literally just commented wondering if LSD could help bridge some connections.. thats awesome that it actually worked for you! stay safe out there

[@alekseybobin843]

How to make it reverse, I want to decrease my hyperphantasia

[@aroy9211]

I am unable to hold the mind's eye. Psilocybin does help in activating the mind's eye. But only temporarily. Thc also works, but it's not viable option. Very little efficiency.

[@DanielFenandes]

I've used copious amounts of LSD and thc and nothing has ever made me see anything with my minds eye

[@tears_falling]

heyyy, i have total aphantasia. cool to see a video about this.

[@CanuckBeaver]

I have it full, from a concussion and coma about age 6 Right Parietal --- More important, I have very poor short-term memory. I can't remember anything I hear quickly, or make fast decisions. Wiki says the most important growth for the hippocampus is late in the 3rd month. Also, the Cortisol stress hormone is toxic to hippo. cells. At that exact time, my parents lived near San Francisco on 7 Dec 1941, Pearl Harbor attack, (I am 82) when everyone was scared of an invasion. I suggest asking patients about their mother's stress factors at that time .

[@jugglerfox]

I have it and I don’t mind, I think it opens up mental capacity for other things

[@hypervanse]

exactly

[@Nerval-kg9sm]

What a vacuous, baseless bit of copium.

[@HenrikoMagnifico]

Same. It makes some things very difficult (drawing is practically impossible) but it has made other things a lot easier. It also feels like I'm more present than some others, maybe.

[@norbertnagy5514]

​@@Nerval-kg9smDo you personally have an agenda against aphantasia people on a similar level, like when europeans first enslaved africans? Or like where is this comment came from?

[@rotors_taker_0h]

@@Nerval-kg9sm go visualize effing yourself, imaginative hero

[@chessshyrecat]

It is fascinating to me how all of them assume that levels of Aphantasia is something a person is stuck with. None of them seem to consider that Phantasia maybe is just a skill and if you practice it a lot you can get better. From what I have seen in this video, there seems to be nothing that would suggest that you can't get better by practicsing it. Maybe people who are not as good at Phantasia just used that skill much less or the mind chose to favor other skills growing up.

[@rotors_taker_0h]

It is just such a normie thing to say, for real. I've known that I have this since childhood and spent countless hours to try and train that "skill" to get to have something that my sisters had since always. No change at all. I have so many other skills trained from zero, but that doesn't feel like a skill issue at all. It's just there or isn't, for me.

[@elusive9240]

Bro would tell a paralyzed person that’s it’s their fault for not trying hard enough to become an athlete.

[@chessshyrecat]

@@rotors_taker_0h What I know from myself is that I usually am not conscious of my images that I make in my mind and only if I really focus on wanting to picture something I can get an image, even if it is not close to Hyperphantasia, but that gives me the confidence to practice it from now on. I don't know if my practice of getting better will work, but I'll see what happens. What helps me is to not limit my memory to making a picture but allow it to remember or imagine other senses at the same time and it helps to make the process of also getting a visual impression easier of what I'm remembering or imagining. How did you learn about the practice of image streaming, which was created to train imagining something more vividly? I'm surprised you already new about the right ways to train getting better at Phantasia. I didn't hear about these exercises before I was in my mid twenties. Not something you usually stumble upon by accident. It is weird for me that you make the assumption about what normal people would say or think. Are their even studies that proof which level of Phantasia is the most common one? Maybe yours is more common than you think. Could be that the person talking to you about Aphantasia has an unusual high ability of Phantasia and therefore assumes that their level is the normal (which only means most common after all) one, when it isn't. I don't know how many people would question the assumption that you are born with it and you can't change anything about that, so I don't know if it is a normie thing to say. But it seems like the assumption that you are born with a certain level of Phantasia is more common in scientif circles at the moment. So the normies in scientific circles don't seem to say that kind of thing. Which is why I wonder why they don't.

[@chessshyrecat]

@@elusive9240 Their are paralyzed people who are Athletes. Ever heard of the Paralympics? Also you are comparing apples with oranges. I'm just saying from the data presented here you can not yet assume that it is something you are born with or something you learned to do growing up. The brain changes through practicing new skills/ doing new tasks on a regular basis and is getting better at that skill. It shows physical changes that you can see in a brain scan. So why couldn't it be that the different brain regions who are not getting activated as much or are not connected as well right now, couldn't grow to change? Connections of neurons always get stronger or weaker depending on how much you use them or not. That is where the phrase "Use it or loose it" comes from. It is one possibility that you can train it, which it seems is not yet tested for well. Maybe it won't work, but you can only know if you tested for things that could work and all of the results come back negative.

[@jerejarvinen625]

Yeah some people love to get a diagnosis also. Same people also read OCD and ADHD symptoms and suddenly they got them too.

[@jamieoglethorpe]

I describe my inner eye as "through a glass darkly". I faintly glimpse the object in the dark, and it fades away in a second or two. I always thought talking about "the mind's eye" or "visualising something" was a metaphor. I never passed my memory test as a scout because I had to use words, and more than four objects were impossible. I also thought that the memorisation trick of walking through a garden and placing objects as you go was complete rubbish. I effectively have Aphantasia as I cannot retain images long enough to be useful. I never have them in the normal course. They are of as much use as a dream that fades as soon as you become aware. I am impressed by skilled artists. One I saw rendered a dragon by drawing the scales in ink. He had to be working directly on the image he held in his mind.

[@victrixx]

Same here, the more detailed the image, the shorter it lasts.

[@Koreanreads]

Apparently, some people don't have inner monologues, which is fascinating to me, and it could be similar to Aphantasia.

[@catalystcomet]

I don't

[@YalbertY]

was not expecting this from quanta magazine

[@joris21]

Really interesting, thx for sharing! I can visualize lines and simple shapes very well, but hardly any colors, and not at all anything too complex like a face. I'm not complaining though, people with hyperphantasia must live life far too intensely!!

[@alekseybobin843]

For me hyper one is a curse-I always see the consequences in colour's and they are mostly not that good. Like I can't do extreme sports on 100% because I my mind visualise me things which probability is weak, but it makes me afraid of. Like crash in carting, or something like that.

[@CaptainMarvelsSon]

The oddity for me is that I have aphantasia while awake, but I still dream in random images and video to the point of thinking it is real. When I was little and had a hard time going to sleep, my father would tell me to imagine a beach we vacationed at regularly. I didn't understand that he meant it literally. I thought he was just talking about the memories because I didn't know you could see things in your mind. (It made sense when I got older and thought about it. I can hear and smell ad taste in my mind, so why shouldn't I be able to see also?)

[@jakelance5786]

This is actually the norm for aphantasia! Most people report intact "involuntary imagery" like dreams or flashbacks

[@kaapra]

@@jakelance5786 Exactly, aphantasia is the lack of VOLUNTARY mental imagery.

[@nadirameur6088]

I wasn't able to put a name on this for 20 years of my life despite my parents being doctors. Discovering the word "aphantasia" changed my life!

[@someguy3335]

I have this condition and i had the experience that when i get relatively drunk then often the next morning my imagination becomes much more vivid. It feels like my brain is somehow actively blocking visual imagination to some extend

[@DJCornelis]

I lack a minds eye but respond strongly to stories about people hurting themselves. Im emotionally over sensitive yet lack any mental imagery.

[@nobody2416]

It's complicated with dreaming. I can dream things which seam really like they would have happened, but when I am in the brightness of day I have a really hard time making an image in my head. It's only like a faint fleeting image for some seconds there

[@WolfPinz]

Highly insightful! Please do one for ADHD as well

[@axeldewater9491]

Wait so not everybody can remember stuff as if it were a video? As in that is not the norm? Could I be a case of hyperphantasia? How do you check this?

[@GearZNet]

Same. I wonder where hyperactive daydreamers fall on the scale.

[@girrrrrrr2]

I tried to explain to my ex that I can’t remember the color of her eyes because my brain doesn’t work that way. She did not understand. I wish more people knew about this because it sucks to be expected to have this ability that you don’t… especially as a creative.

[@rotors_taker_0h]

Oh, yeah, I still remember being bullied by teachers for inability to draw absolutely anything. "why can't you just imagine something familiar, like you mothers face and draw it?"

[@dugldoo]

"Seeing" a mental image is just one of a number of mental recreations that some can do and others can't. My son can play any tune after hearing it once; some people can imitate different accents wonderfully; some can impersonate celebrities with uncanny accuracy; some can recite a poem after just one or two hearings; some can recreate dance movements on seeing them once. I've won writing awards and speak several languages; I can "hear" the language, but I can't "see" the words, and so misspell things all the time. Each of these recreations requires different mental processes. So it seems natural that there's a wide spectrum of ability in recreating a mental image.

[@looshsociety]

I estimate that there are many persons with a slight to more outspoken level of aphantasia. I myself have a hard time to visualize something i set my mind to, but I experience this as mostly a benefit, contrary to the claim that 'one would be missing' something. i wouldn't want it otherwise. Alas, via esoteric means and technological means, i've been 'forced'to see mental images that were completely induced, regularly, like that time in an overdistance experiment , being "guided" into remote viewing , "astral projection" called as well, which is a well documented phenomenon. I stopped it immediatly, once I experienced how this was being manipulated. So , I'm very happy i can't visualize well, i experience it as liberating,literally and can stay far more 'grounded' and less suggestible, in my experience.

[@pbjbagel]

Is it possible that far more people have aphantasia than the experts estimate? I imagine this condition fits well with political and business leaders who learned how to adapt to any struggles related to it and who struggle to see the consequences of their own actions.

[@catalystcomet]

They're not even mentioning in this video anything about the fact that it's on a spectrum or the different types. Some people have a much harder time with faces, some people have a much harder time with colors of things, it's way, way bigger than they're saying here I honestly don't trust a lot of the science just because of that. I trust what the scientists are saying but, they've edited so much and they've left out even more.

[@andrewnixon8556]

I can't believe people can see things in their heads by thinking about them as I just don't and can't but I do have very vivid dreams every night so I can't explain that. My memory is also very poor, I can read a book or medical paper and remember practically nothing about it, something which made my Education to tertiary level very difficult and frustrating.

[@architech5940]

Fun fact: aphantasia is very common among mathematicians and people in related, abstract fields. This condition has a very strong correlation to high levels of logical and abstract reasoning.

[@timotheegoulet1511]

Being 51 years old and having Aphantasia I could never imagine having mental imagery. Would be too much of a distraction in life.

[@AitoNitram]

I feel like I can imagine images better when not thinking about it, like when Im zoned out. They same goes for sounds, I can zone out to the extent where I can actually hear a song in my head, often times this is very brief because as soon as I realise it I lose it.

[@jacobusburger]

I think it’s really important for people to remember the last part! Having phantasia and an inner monologue are not “better” than not having it. People have a diverse range of cognitive possibilities, none of those differences are “better” or “worse” than any others. Some people can smell a dusty library from a description. People don’t lack “depth” or are less of a person than you just because you feel like your experience is somehow special. Let’s appreciate the diversity of our experiences instead of placing some over others or feeling bad about ours. Before you ask. I got hyperphantasia and an inner monologue (sometimes a socratic dialogue). I do wonder about and appreciate the different ways people can experience from me. I’ve never smelled anything from imagining it for example.

[@burgercide]

It's very important that we take into account the subjective experience of people with these conditions before we decide whether those conditions should be considered to be normal. I am rapidly going blind and have been told that I am ablest because I believe blindness is undesirable and having site is both normal and preferable to blindness.

[@victrixx]

It would definitely be cool to visualize stuff at will, though. I once experienced smell from memory and it was awesome. Some things are genuinely better than their alternatives. As an example, constant battles of will with untreated ADHD can destroy one's prospects in life irrevocably, so calling it anything but a disability is just lying to oneself. Of course, the treated one tends to allow for certain "gifts" to manifest, but that doesn't change what it is.

[@enlightenmentseeker1689]

I have aphantasia but what i find quite interesting is i am able to have intense vivid dreams. The only way i have been able to unlock access to my visual side is through hallucinogens.

[@j.christopherbowen252]

This is me. They neglected to mention that this phenomenon can present in all of the senses. Smell, taste, touch, and hearing. I think it also affects how I feel pain and propreception.

[@Peregringlk]

In 7:15, I think I am between the second and third "kind of mind". I can see shapes and visualize objects without problems, and I'm good at "moving things around" in my head (I was the best in my school in technical drawing), but I can barely visualize colors. I mean, I can, for a very short period of time, like a second, and then the color rapidly fades away. I have to "work hard" to kept the color in place. I'm not very emotional or sensitive either; I am, but not too much. I think this "discovery" is a very damn big deal. It could explain a lot.

[@lucidmoses]

On the plus side, you get much faster, more accurate thinking.

[@konstantingr5928]

would be interesting to study if this impacts creativity of the person .

[@ruudh.g.vantol4306]

I remember after having worked for several days without sleeping, I wasn’t able anymore to imagine what my wife and kids looked like. Compare it to the build up of lactic acid in muscles. It is essential to sleep and dream, to process and flush and regenerate functionality.

[@n1matsu]

I find myself to be mostly aphantasic, closer to the end of the scale, however, there are brief moments awake, or some more durable ones when I'm in the limbo between being awaken and asleep, where I experience vivid visuals. So do I when taking psychedelics or dreaming. Almost all our visual image processing is related to eye stimulus, but there might be a way, even for aphantasic people, to stimulate and trigger those visual image formation brain regions. If aphantasics can create images out of visual inputs, they have the image formation capability, it just doesn't trigger as well when the visual stimuly isn't there. The reason for that might be the brain's strategy to stop the imagined visuals to overlap with the visual input, which would probably difficult us... Such is the case with high dose psychedelics where the environment gets distorted so much that it's impossible to navigate anymore.

[@anuzis]

7:16 on the spectrum, trying to visualize an apple, I'm probably 2 out of 5 on the scale with a casual thought about what an apple looks like. If someone asks me to visualize it, I'm probably 3 out of 5. If someone asks me what color it is, I know it's red from knowledge, but the visualization isn't vibrant at all. If I try to visualize it as a red apple, I can approach 4 out of 5 on the vividness spectrum, but it takes quite a bit of effort. From reading other comments it's interesting to see that some other folks are 1 of 5 and some other folks are 5 of 5. Fascinating that many of us have gone through so much of life not realizing these internal differences can exist.

[@alekseybobin843]

And I'm on the hyperphantasia side, and you know it's right-I can imagine any obstacle in my future life in colour's and details, that always make me afraid of making decisions. Also I've got an fobia when you don't see the surface underwater. You can't even imagine what wierd creatures waiting for me there in my phantasies.

[@dan339dan]

I think I can visualize, but I'm curious at how others do it, since the video says we are all on a spectrum. I can sort of imagine an overlaying mental imagery into reality as well as when I close my eyes, but I can only do a "clarity tunnel vision", where it's clearer where I focus on, and features fade away where I don't. But if I turn my visualization to low-res outline without the color/texture, it's easier to retain the visualization. I'm trying to imagine a bathroom sink in my room as an exercise.

[@05degrees]

I have visual aphantasia, almost full (I can have simple “geometric” sketches of a few things in relation to each other, and I suspect my motor imagination gets used). Thankfully I have modest imagination of sounds, I suspect not really top tier though. That’s compounded on with ADHD and congenital nearsightedness so sometimes it’s quite sad, because I do mental things slower in roundabout ways instead of just visualizing something and keeping it at the back of my head, and my episodic memory is total trash. I remember utter scraps that are all guesswork about when exactly something happened at all. There was a time when I remembered two specific memories (I now have no clue about which) that I couldn’t order because every ordering was definitely incorrect, based on other memories. It’s very limiting and often frustrating. I often have doubts if I can really remember faces or do I do something else for recognizing people. Which is indeed what I mostly do because mostly people coming at me out of nowhere are at a distance I can’t see their face properly; and even then people from the past that remembered me somehow meeting on few occasions, call my name and I have no clue what to do because I can’t just pretend. Then if the case is genuine sometimes I indeed remember who it was if they remind something notable what have happened, because I can’t associate them with how they looked like, or sounded like, etc.. I have good voice recognition but that’s only for people I’m meeting at least somewhat regularly, because overall ADHD adds to slipperiness of memory. I guess having aphantasia and ADHD stem from shared sources in my brain, as they compliment each other so greatly (to my detriment). I started this to point out that contrary to some, I have dreams but they are often murky and not detailed. I can fool myself into seeing detailed and realistic stuff when I rarely have lucid dreams but on waking up I recognize that at least part of my feeling was misplaced. I probably still visualize stuff in dreams or lucid dreams, but still I can’t hold much in my head at once, and who’s to say if I visualize those things by intent or do I just think I saw what I wished to see first. I seem to have a bit better consciois visualization when I’m not fully awake but it’s fleeting. And when I’m awake, no. It’s just vague strokes of substance that try to pretend they are parts of something but I need huge concentration for them to make even some sense and be used as a mental scratchpad.

[@ewtalks]

It seems that like every other problem in biology and engineering its a tradeoff and you cant everything at the same time and undoubtedly the balance is the best answer god bless you all

[@roseannarabia6461]

Going solely by what they are describing in this video, I believe I may have had hyperphantasia all of my life until about 3 years ago. I abruptly lost my ability to see images and now everything I try to recall looks like it's in a dense gray fog in black and white including when I dream - my dreams used to be hyper realistic. At first I thought maybe it's menopause, maybe I'm getting dementia, or I'm just getting older, but now I'm more confused than ever. I don't know what the cause is, but when it suddenly happened nearly all the trauma and depression from my past suddenly was lifted from my shoulders. I still have physical trauma responses, but not from visual triggers anymore. There are a lot of downsides though. I can no longer visualize my the faces of my family despite seeing them everyday, all ofy fond memories are no longer there, and I have been a visual learner my entire life which makes learning new things extremely difficult. I am left with learning through rote memory or it simply fades away. Unfortunately, I don't have medical insurance and am not able to see a doctor to be evaluated. I'm really hoping that they learn more about this because I need find a way to cope with these different changes in my life.

[@MarijnvdSterre]

I always have "seen" it as an advantage. No issue if something "discusting" is mentioned. While most go "ieeeuw"/"yuck". Not having the risk that of the mental image being wrong. (An apple doesn't need to be red)

[@burgercide]

I think we should ask people with a Fantasia and hyper Fantasia whether the conditions give them distress before we decide that these conditions should be considered to be normal.

[@snylekkie]

I still think aphantasia to a majority of people with alleged aphantasia is lack of common understanding of how allegedly healthy people visualize. Everybody keeps exaggerating or describing same thing in vastly different terms. They dont have it.

[@ascendrio]

Sounds unimaginable

[@willowZzzzzz]

Yeah, but I'm really good at modeling data relationships and building complex system structures in my head. It's paid the bills, so I've learned to accept my gift.

[@realcygnus]

I've always been on the rather weak side regarding visualization, which is probably why I'm rather awful at drawing & such. I was amazed by psychedelics though, especially by that synthetic mescaline that was popular in the 80's even more so than LSD. There were times I could clearly visualize virtually anything I thought of in exquisite 3D detail, & sometimes for extended periods of time, perhaps even for entire minutes as opposed to mere seconds. Kind of like a modern CAD/modeling system that you might call an internal reality synthesiser. I could even change the viewing angle &/or rotation speeds & such at will.

[@NonBinary_Star]

7:27 As someone with more extreme spectrum hyperphantasia.. it's both a blessing🎨 and a curse. ESPECIALLY when it comes to reading or listening to someone talk about an event that happened. 😮‍💨🥵

[@TheDudeManBro]

It's very odd, it's like there's a way of existing that lets you experience things again, but I also understand that that means things you don't want to experience again would be part of it perhaps. I've been told by my doctors that I seem to experience CPTSD but I don't seem to experience what others do when describing it so it complicates the already complex. Can I really call it PTSD if it lacks some of the parts that truly paralyze others in moments they're forced to relive? I'm so interested in the thought that you can, I guess in the very sense of the word "will" an experience you had or want to have, that must feel amazing and such an incredible motivator, seeing yourself in a place that you want to be and feeling the happiness of what that could be. Then when you get back from that thought, you can work toward it knowing how you'll feel when you're there eventually. But also maybe you don't, since it's a spectrum maybe one way it works is it actually only gives a visual but not a feeling, it's very odd to think about. Also after talking with my aunts one day when we went to a fair, I asked them a couple questions at lunch to find if I had any family with aphantasia. As it turns out, one aunt has hyper phantasia and the other has normal phantasia (along with my mom). Me and the aunt with hyper phantasia ended up with so many questions for eachother, but not only that, she had no way idea how to rotate what she imagined but she did have control of moving around in some sort of "space" she could see while looking at me. I asked her if she could use the fact she can move freely and apply that thinking to when she wanted something to rotate, like using herself as the point of rotation. And it worked, apparently, she said she could rotate it after making that connection. I don't know how, I can't prove anything, but she slammed her hands on the table ecstatic, like she was so happy she had learned to control that. It felt nice, helping someone understand what they can feel to be in control of it despite the fact I do not experience these things and never have. I can't hear music I love, I can't hear my thoughts, I can't see what i want to see, I cannot taste the thought of something delicious, I cannot smell something the thought of something comforting. It also means I can't hear the sounds that haunt me, see the events that scarred me, taste the things I'd rather expel, smell the smells that other cannot forget. Very odd, happy it can't harm me, slightly upset I can't experience what may be uplifting.

[@Amonimus]

Interesting that right after being published, despite the video saying it's quite rare, most of the comments say they have it. Not implying anything, but it is interesting.

[@victrixx]

Perhaps it's (EDIT: +only) common in commonly researched populations. Maybe people who don't have it don't feel the urge to comment as the video claims their condition is the norm, and humans want to feel special. Many possible reasons.

[@stevevitka7442]

I have weird form, normally my mental imagery is faint if at all. But if I zone out and let it happen I can have extremely intricate hyper-fantasia that I have no conscious control over usually in the form of complex, colorful moving patterns. I got too used to doing it 20 years ago and it erased my inner dialog (I would just do this instead), so I had to stop. I call it "The Vortex"

[@erikmaronde2244]

When I am asked to imagine an apple I visualize an Apple tree or a bottle of Apple juice, but hardly an apple itself. How do you call that?

[@jerejarvinen625]

Feels to me like there's a potential miscommunication problem here. For example I can close my eyes and look through my eyes in to blackness no problem, but if I try to "see" with my mind I can create some vague pictures no problem. It's just a different focus. And I'm not a special man this is surely how it works for everyone without some weird brain damage. Same for sound. People don't actually hear any sound they think. Like you won't get your eardrums damaged if you yell internally, but you can imagine the sounds and whatever.

[@brucelebastard]

I don't have these images and do have a challenge remembering. I have asked a number of people at work to close there eyes then I said red apple. Quite a few said they did not see it. The numbers don't match the 3%.

[@fleetingfacet]

In a recent Twit podcast, Leo Laporte said he had Aphantasia.

[@AMVH2012]

I'm curious what kind of controls are employed to weed out people who are faking.

[@lektorlainz]

I have mental imagery, but kinda looks very abstract, no inner voice unless I have to "think through" something or read.

[@MarijnvdSterre]

I once had a discussion with someone whom I tried to explain to that I didn't think in images. The response? "So what do you see?"...

[@PedroHenriquePS00000]

i think i have the exact opposite, sometimes i stuggle with words because i mainly think in images. its like i dont think of sound or word when first generating a thought, it comes as an image first

[@TheFearlesstexan]

Off the wall question, but do you think the opposite of aphantasia could be schizophrenia?

[@knightmagnus8497]

Seems i might have a type of hyperphantasia. Sometimes I can visualize a image vividly but its more of a uncontrollable phenomena. Sometimes it just happens and terrifies me. This is like a floating object or face with detail like my eyes are open, but they arent, against a greyblackpurple backdrop. Even still, I have an abstract type of visualization where I can create entire worlds to walk through and experience. I dont "see" it in the same way as the mental image, Im just there and can tell or watch or experience any story I like. I think of it like a waking lucid dream? This is what using your imagination means to me. My memory is pretty great. I carry some old memories vividly and can replay some at will. I have a decent amout of control over what I commit to memory, or put on a lower order. Im not the best vivid artist with a paintbrush, I only do abstract things. Inward I can do far more wood grain type detail. Its never just a single object... why stop at that?

[@160p2GHz]

Happy to learn about new quantitative tests. I always found that questionaire useless because I have a very visual but lazy brain. I know I have a visual brain from my visual and spatial memory abilities... I've even had clinical tests that show I'm an outlier in my ability to complete 3D puzzles. But if you ask me to imagine an apple then ask the level of detail I'm like "why would I imagine detail? do i need to? there are a lots of types of apples. give me a variety or better description or let me know to make it as detailed as possible and I'll have it but I'm not going to assign more than the general shape unless needed.

[@KiloOscarZulu]

What I found interesting is that aphantasics (?) aphantasians (?) still dream and see things in their mind while asleep.

[@daniloruffino9093]

Have the audio of your videos translated into many languages

[@plamindset1168]

This seems strange. I cannot visualise images in my head. All I see is black with at best extremely faint outlines of what I’m imagining, so therefore I apparently have aphantasia. What is odd to me is that if only 1-4% of the population have this, how have I gone my entire life not picking up on the fact that basically everyone else can literally see the images in their head. If you asked me before this video if I could visualise a red apple I would have said of course, and that’s where the subjectivity that surely skews the 1-4% figure lies. What is the difference between literally visualising and metaphorically visualising and how do you know what people are experiencing. The pupil dilation test would need to be carried out on everyone asked. That being said I did only hear recently that not everyone can hear their thoughts, and I definitely can. If you asked me to visualise a red apple what happens is something closer to the voice in my head listing out the various features such as size shape and colour. Again though it’s not a literal sound that crowds out the real sounds I can hear, more like a virtual sound. Again, this leads to subjectivity seeping in. I’m not sure you can ever really study this rigorously

[@lobbyskids2]

I find it very hard to picture images in my head but I can do it. I wonder if its a spectrum of ability.

[@cjorsomething.8031]

I feel like how people say they hear words describing an image i feel like i dont see any light in the image more i see black but my mind sends a sort of code describing tge image which get read and vaguely displays a blurry dim ai generated type image over the black like instead of seeing with my eyes i see with my brain like instead of replicating sight its its own type of sight do i have it?

[@cobalius]

i dunno i feel like mine is all over the spectrum. I had definitely times in which i had hyperreaslictic movies as imagination or complex sceneries i could freely manipulate, and other times where i had "just" a raw outlining with "concept points" at very certain locations relative to each other or relative to my own body parts, kinda a blind imagination, if you will. And then i also had empty imaginations, where i knew i was heavily processing stuff, but i only was able to sense my throughput, progress and done status. But generally, i would say, i have a long build up time. Before images will become extremely vivid, i need several minutes of concentration, maybe even meditation or wellness to get there. And additionally it needs input. I rarely can imagine faces and single isolated objects. But with rich scenarios, also involving multiple senses, i might have better chances to get there faster. It's like my mind won't even bother the paper shreds, when lowkey visualization already gets me where i need to be.

[@Zangoose_]

I wanted to hear more about Hyperphantasia "people who have very strong imagery tend to get confusions with reality"... WHAT?

[@milanolasz1386]

But wait a minute... does that paper then also conclude that blinds have less emotional attachment to their memories and recalling autobiographical details is more difficult for them as well? Because I've never heard about that, and if its not true then that would mean that there's something else to this aphantasia-memory thing

[@chrimony]

Seems like there should be easier and more objective tests. The video showed the guy multiple times trying to draw an apple. You'd think there would be many tasks involving being able to visualize that people with aphantasia would have a hard time with.

[@girrrrrrr2]

The apple is just the common/easy test that anyone can do at any time as a first step. Like the EDS test, if you don’t have it you will know quick, then it saves you a specialist trip.

[@billr3053]

I was wondering about that too. It may be that the producers of this documentary thought it would be the best way to illustrate lack of visual memory. My question would be why couldn’t such a person draw a perfectly valid apple? Assuming they have basic dexterity and rudimentary sketching skills. They just have to draw the rough shape. Fix it. Look at it again. Fix it some more, in an iterative process. Until it becomes more and more accurate. I don’t see the necessity to being able to visualize it vividly beforehand.

[@chrimony]

@@billr3053 The apple is just an example. You could flash some basic geometric shapes interposed on each other, and ask them to draw what they saw. That should require visual memory and being able to hold the image in your mind.

[@htech_agen]

I also can't see anything when i try to imagine a just tjink of descriptions about the stuff I'm imagining but i can't see anything it's just blank.

[@Kenny-yf3dx]

I never see or remember any image at head, so there is someone can see thing in there head?

[@saelesbonsazse9919]

I can simulate sounds perfectly with my mind, but no imagery. I am one of those people who always thought "seeing with the mind's eye" was a metaphor. It's sad knowing I'm somewhat impaired. EDIT: And yet my dreams are super vivid. And I experienced lucid dreaming, which are basically as real in my mind as the real world. I can't understand this paradox!

[@DylanCrewell]

Can those with Aphantasia visualize in their dreams? I know a few people that are totally devoid of mental imagery when awake but when they remember dreams they can be incredibly visual.

[@Gusttafa]

Find way how to activate phantasia in aphantasia people, please

[@Jeffthought]

i'd be interested to see how chemicals like LSD would affect those with aphantasia.. perhaps it could build more neural connections in the hypocampal region?

[@alekseybobin843]

On the other hand, what should hyper one experience?

[@RobotB303]

I suspect I have hyperphantasia. Sometimes it’s rather entertaining. It can certainly be overstimulating as well. As a child it would terrify me because it was difficult to distinguish the visuals in my minds eye from reality.

[@pullingweeds]

How are they impacted by cognitive tests that require rotation of objects in the mind's eye?

[@koudyhoShorty]

I would like to know if there is a correlation between your inner voice and aphantasia.

[@chaotic7006]

THANK YOU I HAVE THIS AND I HAD NO WAY OF EXPLANING IT TO OTHERS!

[@SlimShady-gs8pl]

I'm not sure if I have aphantasia or not I just keep my brain devoid of thoughts

[@tomholroyd7519]

I'm colorblind and have aphantasia. I notice I can see textures really well, I suppose the brain circuitry gets reused, and I wonder what the tradeoff with aphantasia is. I seem to have lexical skills, I am a computer programmer with an affinity for syntax; what I lack in not being able to remember names and faces I make up for in being able to go deep into a codebase

[@SireJoe]

Do people who feel as though they have this also have difficulty with directions and getting to destinations? Especially those they haveny been to before?

[@matswessling6600]

hm. I am bit sceptical about this. When I ask around, no one actually have vivid imaginary as dedcribed here but all get ghostly vague imagery but clear relational representation: they see more like ghostly wireframes.

[@themapslol]

i have it, i never knew anyone could see anything with their eyes closed. is there a cure for this?

[@Ef554rgcc]

Im not sure if i can or not. I cant really see an image in my mind if an apple but I can visualize in depththings like remembering the entire inside if a building I've been in.

[@jejewise5300]

same here. I can imagine a specific situation or complicated images like faces, and can remember the interior(structure) of an house that I’ve only been inside once. But it’s not like a picture… just like a piece of a thought passing by…. Not a visualization. And I just can’t imagine an apple.