Why Spain wants Britain to return Gibraltar (But will they?)

[@PoliticswithPaint]

(Advertisement/Werbung/El Alnuncio) Play 'War Thunder' now for free and receive a cool bonus pack with boosters and vehicles by using my link: playwt.link/Politicswithpaint

[@jorgec.a3123]

You forgot the most recent and biggest issue, Gibraltar has no territorial waters and in spite of this the police from Gibraltar and the British navy keep getting in the way of the Spanish police and Spanish navy, with 2 British nuclear submarines having caused problems in recent years. One of those submarines impacted a fishing vessel by accident. Also royal Marines once used the Spanish flag for target practice.

[@rosslange1757]

Gibraltar very clearly has territorial waters and are recognised as having so by the international community. Why would you think otherwise?

[@jorgec.a3123]

@@rosslange1757 It does not have any territorial waters as per the treaty of Utrecht and Spain doesn't recognize that they do. They are interfering with our police and navy in our own territorial waters

[@rosslange1757]

Is Spain part of the UN and does it abide by its conventions? I think it does.

[@jorgec.a3123]

@@rosslange1757 Yeah Spain is a member of the UN and abide by UN conventions, but Gibraltar has no territorial waters and Spain doesn't recognize them. If you wanna get the UN involved, when will the UK finally decolonize Gibraltar? When will Gibraltar stop being a hub for contraband and drug trafficking? When will Gibraltar respect Spanish immigration laws? When will Gibraltar let our police and navy perform their duties? When will Gibraltar stop being a nuisance to Spain?

[@AussiePersian]

I mean it’s hard to take the Spanish seriously when they have very similar enclaves in North Africa that they absolutely refuse to negotiate on.

[@Zeta-l4w]

yup, never gave it back to us

[@robr1032]

The main difference is that Ceuta and Melilla have been part of metropolitan Spain before than the modern concept of “Marocco” even existed. Britain took Gibraltar after the formation of Spain, and holds it practically as a colony

[@brandonlyon730]

@@robr1032 The Marinid dynasty would like a word with you.

[@b101uk9]

@@robr1032 the area known as Morocco has been ruled by the Alawi dynasty since 1631, Portugal never ceded Ceuta to Spain until 1668, and the Alawi dynasty have always been trying to get it back, so arguments over "metropolitan Spain" or "modern concept of “Marocco”" idiotic hot air, and the title Sultan of Morocco has existed since 1666.

[@Zeta-l4w]

@@robr1032 nope, moroco existed befor spain colonised it

[@Partyrockscool]

Dude the BMW in the Balkans killed me

[@FOXMAN09]

I knew i wasnt crazy in thinking it was weird how many BMWs I saw in the Balkans lol

[@wayneinman1254]

Tell em to fuck off

[@TaliyahP]

Spain: "Nooooo you can't have a peninsula off my territory" Also Spain: "Shut up Morrocco, those are integral parts of Spain"

[@toasts3054]

The problem is that you see a small piece of land and you immediately think it's stolen or something. Ceuta and Melilla have been spanish in all kinds of terms for longer than the existence of Morrocco as a country. How can you claim what's never been yours in first place?

[@toasts3054]

@@Red-90 Morrocoy was created in 1956 following my western sources. I don't know what they teach you in a Moroccan school

[@toasts3054]

@@Red-90 also, you can't just use the word "delusional" every time someone says something you disagree with

[@Y.E.O.S]

@@toasts3054 💀

[@joshuafrimpong244]

@@toasts3054 thats cap

[@markaxworthy2508]

I never knew Gibraltar has been British longer than it was Spanish!

[@pedritopedrito_]

Eso ni siquiera es verdad

[@michaelmccomb2594]

@@pedritopedrito_how long was it Spanish?

[@SuperJibulus]

@@pedritopedrito_disprove it then

[@MrColaKO]

It was part of the Kingdom of Granada before, an integral part of Spain.

[@michaelmccomb2594]

@@MrColaKO the Kingdom of Granada was founded in what year? Around 1500?

[@adrianmunoz7646]

Fun fact: when the Olympics were on I used to always think the GBR acronym with the Union Jack was for Gibraltar. 😅

[@thehistoricalmapper4928]

You should do the conflict over the Russia Kuril island with Japan.

[@castlerock58]

Japan has no case. When the Japanese Emperor had absolute power, he renounced Japanese sovereignty over the Kurils at the end of WW II. His decision was law in Japan. Japan is now trying to undo the Emperor's order. A country can't give up sovereignty over a territory and then say they were just kidding and demand it back. Russia can't just say to the US that it made a mistake and wants Alaska back. If Japan ever attacked Russia, it would probably get nuked again. They should stop whining about it.

[@History-and-stuff]

Oh my gosh, it’s the rock!

[@eastgermanballguy332]

da rok :O

[@nikolozgilles]

**Vine boom**

[@albertomunoyerro5562]

Best spanish rock

[@thejoelfromjonkoping]

I hate that you added that in

[@snazzydares8787]

@@albertomunoyerro5562shouldn’t have singed it away then in 1713

[@FatFerret511]

“Much like a BMW in the Balkans” 🤣

[@RaulPerez-v2y]

It will come back to us. Once uk becomes completely Muslim and 💩, what is happening. You pirates

[@ronaldderooij1774]

It seems that Dutch diplomacy failed. They helped conquer Gibraltar, organised a peace conference in Utrecht, and came out empty handed. Great work.

[@mrflibble9783]

It was agreed the Dutch could annex Gelderland which was occupied by France. Which probobly seemed a bigger win that the rock at the time.

[@DwynNWynns]

The Dutch don't get swallow up by a combine Frence/Spanish Empire. It is a good power play. Dutch can't hold Gibraltar anyway but England as a Allies controlling a key choke point is leverage in itself.

[@rrwholloway]

Continued existence isn’t what I would call ‘empty handed’.

[@VFella]

@@mrflibble9783 Had we known at that time, we would have preferred the rock. At least the simians there are semi-intelligent.

[@WilliamHall-l8v]

They gained a powerful ally who gave gareentee of independence plus I believe it was the first free trade agreement ever made between both countries and back then to get a free trade agreement with UK was better than any land why the Dutch managed to gain overseas territory due to the strong alliance they had with the British

[@MichaelWerneburg]

When you were referring to shared jurisdiction I imagined you were going to highlight Andorra, which is on paper jointly governed by Spain and France. Thanks for posting this video!

[@MagicBrianTricks]

More similar to a personal union

[@sjeason]

I thought Andorra was technically its own principality which governed itself? Although I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s jointly owned sort of thing

[@MichaelWerneburg]

@@sjeason en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-princes_of_Andorra

[@someguy3766]

Not really a valid comparison, Andorra is an independent country that simply has two heads of state, one of whom is the President of France, the other is some Spanish Bishop. It is not a territory of Spain or France (or both). A better comparison would be some of the colonial condominiums that used to exist, such as those that were under joint UK-French sovereignty for example. Granted none of those exist anymore. Or Perhaps Egypt, which used to be under Ottoman sovereignty, but was administered by Britain.

[@salvadorromero9712]

As addressed in some replies here, this is completely false. Andorra is a constitutional democracy whose ceremonial heads of state are the Bishop of tiny Urgell, Spain, and the French head of state, currently its President Emmanuel Macron. Even originally when these two "co-princes" actually ruled there, it was still meaningfully distinguished from anything like being "governed by France." It was just another place where the same man happened to be king, and always would be. Andorra has nothing to do with the French government and never has. It is no more French than Australia is Jamaican. And with Spain there is even less connection. Pope Francis is closer to being in charge of Andorra than King Felipe is, and that's pretty distant! In fact temporal and spiritual powers of bishops, including the Pope and the head of the Knights of Malta, have always been much more distinct than most people realize. The bishop of Urgell is the only other bishop of any kind on earth left that has any temporal sovereignty. (Though the Knights of Malta head has a few of its qualities.) That is pretty cool, as well as the fact that the President of zealously republican France has always been royalty. (Until only a handful of years ago the people of Andorra also still paid in-kind tribute to their princes with a set number of hams, cheeses, chickens and goats, and so forth.) In practice the modern informal influence from France and Spain due to Andorra's size and location (it's almost a sort of high-end shopping mall, some only half joke) matter much more than the fact that their ceremonial princes happen to be from there. Almost nothing would change if they were a republic.

[@mattwilliams3456]

Demanding negotiations is pointless when the end goals are so diametrically opposed and one side has little leverage. They can have weekly meetings and nothing would happen. Spain will only be happy when they begin to gain control, and Britain has no reason to concede any. It’s an exercise in futility until something alters that balance.

[@andmos1001]

Well at the very least, the dispute has remained peaceful for a long period.

[@ekothesilent9456]

Like if Spain gave an ultimatum regarding their NATO status. If Spain left NATO Gibraltar would lose much of its strategic value anyway, it might be a worthwhile, if not, diplomatically damaging gambit.

[@ekothesilent9456]

Like if Spain gave an ultimatum regarding their NATO status. If Spain left NATO Gibraltar would lose much of its strategic value anyway, it might be a worthwhile, if not, diplomatically damaging gambit.

[@Kervath]

@@ekothesilent9456 ... If Spain left NATO Gibraltar would gain tremendous strategic value.

[@lindseyg9666]

the Gibraltar population have had referendums and they wish to remain as a British protectorate.

[@johnborland6954]

I've visited Gibraltar, an amazing place, nothing about it other than the weather is spanish. Its feels very British, it was very odd walking across the border one minute I'm in Spain the next I'm seeing British Police, union Jack's, Boots the chemist, Morrisons, signs in English, old school London Buses, 3 pin electrical plugs, British war memorials. British Saliors. Its England with a slightly mediterranean twist. The will of the people of Gibraltar must be respected.

[@MrYahboo]

That may be how it appears to visitors but the Gibraltarians are neither British or Spanish in character although they have more in common with Spanish people than Brits, I would say and Spanish (or 'Llanito') is the preferred language, for sure.

[@martinrye712]

​@MrYahboo what a load of utter nonsense

[@johnborland6954]

​@@MrYahboomaybe you are right about their culture, but the people of Gibraltar want to be aligned with the UK not Spain.

[@MrYahboo]

@@johnborland6954 absolutely. I'm not saying any different.

[@metaphysicalfuck]

​@@johnborland6954you may be right, but history repeats itself and the UK only cares about Gibraltar for the strategic control. Their people are not a concern at least politically

[@novedad4468]

Something interesting to mention, and often overlooked, is the neighbouring town of San Roque, whose oficial title is "donde reside la de Gibraltar", or in English, "where (the city) of Gibraltar resides". The original inhabitants of Gibraltar settled there when the English refused to return the city after the Spanish war of succession, and their descendants still live there to this day.

[@littleshep5502]

The UK didn't refuse to return anything, they were given gibraltar in exchange for them pulling out of the war

[@Finnbobjimbob]

Refused to return? They GAVE it to us in exchange for peace?

[@yeahokbuddy2510]

@@Finnbobjimbobso Spain wants it back. Spain gave it to you British since your military was strong and Spain was dealing with a lot of internal conflicts. Britain took advantage of this chaos and now that the times are stable it’s time to act like adults. Gibraltar is Spanish land historically and forever

[@Finnbobjimbob]

@@yeahokbuddy2510 Uhhhhh no?

[@rosslange1757]

I think you mean 'some' of the original inhabitants. Visit Gibraltar and you can certainly find people who trace their ancestry back to 1713 and before.

[@Jin-Ro]

As a Brit I think the UK should claim all the land north of Gibraltar, it's clearly part of Gibraltar, and whoever lives there would have a hard time disagreeing with that view point. Spain belongs to the UK.

[@sophiefrancis8295]

@jesusbermudez6775Pa! We don’t just want planet Earth but the whole universe too! Every planet should be British!

[@Englander284]

​@jesusbermudez6775the world would be far greater if ruled by the British

[@ChrisCrossClash]

@@sophiefrancis8295Britain should definitely own the whole universe in that case 😂

[@zhcultivator]

agreed, British Armada when??

[@stuartriddell2461]

Only one universe? What if there are other universes? 😀

[@thetrooper9236]

We British enjoy fighting 🇦🇮🇦🇺🇧🇲🇻🇬🇰🇾🇨🇰🇫🇰🇲🇸🇳🇿🇵🇳🇬🇸🇸🇭🇹🇨🇹🇻🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@meritianus2076]

pero qué dices pinfloi

[@stargazer-elite]

And we Americans love our family countries 🇺🇸🇻🇮🇵🇷🇲🇵🇬🇺🇦🇸 ❤️🇨🇦🇬🇧🇦🇺🇳🇿

[@meritianus2076]

@@stargazer-elite Decolonise Puerto Rico first, and then we'll talk about "families"

[@stargazer-elite]

@@meritianus2076 I wasn’t talking to you

[@meritianus2076]

@@stargazer-elite lmao don't care

[@heptaniko7090]

Seeing comments of the Anglos giving their poor opinion about why Gibraltar should be British and having the balls of compare it to Ceuta and Melilla makes me seriously question his intellectual level, It seems that the lack of sun, the dental care, and the emerging new caliphate in UK is leaving consequences there hahaha

[@zigongosaurus5274]

Seeing comments of Spaniards saying why they should own Gibraltar even though they signed a treaty 311 years ago explicitly stating Britain would own it FOREVER makes me seriously question their intellectual level. Maybe the immense skill issue Spain has had since 1806 is leaving consequences hahaha

[@heptaniko7090]

@@zigongosaurus5274at least you try to reply, but not even far bro

[@asullivan4047]

Spain is a washed up imperialist nation. Has been for (250)years. British laid claim & re established that region. Spain only had territory taken from it. Never shared with another nation. Now they want to whine about the loss-!!!

[@michellepeoplelikeyoumurde8373]

​@@heptaniko7090 the Deigos want Gib because it reminds them of all their defeats and loss of empire at the hands of Anglo Saxons

[@joepopplewell680]

If you had an actual retort you would've commented that.

[@Kabutoes]

USA: “how come we don’t have Gibraltar?” USA 2: “we have Gibraltar at home” Gibraltar: *Guantamono Bay*

[@occam7382]

USA: "Ohhhhh, right. I forgot we had that."

[@LuisCarlos-cs3zq]

In reality, the United States does recognize that territory as part of Cuba, which refuses to abandon it and terminate the lease contract.

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

Guantanamo bay is cuban territory leased by the US

[@indian-tech-support]

Nope you are just really crap tenants

[@RedXlV]

@@augustuslunasol10thapostle Leased against Cuba's will, that is.

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

How do you define "resolving" the issue? Because as far as the British (including the Gebraltarians) are concerned, it's been resolved for over 300 years. What has Britain or the people who live in Gibraltar got to gain from any of these negotiations? To stop Spain constantly complaining? Somehow I don't think that's worth it.

[@jabato9779]

It is not resolved from the Spanish point of view, as Northern Ireland is not resolved for many Irish. UK is an expert in planting the seeds of discord across the globe: Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, Israel-Palestine, Pakistan-India, Iraq-Kuwait, Rhodesia, South Africa, Falklands, etc, etc, etc.

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

@@jabato9779 The Spanish seem to define "resolved" as "Gibraltar is handed over to Spain"... But that is contrary to the British position and would again leave the matter unresolved. Ergo there can be no "resolution" when there are only 2 real options and the 2 sides are diametrically opposed. Now as the as the Penisnular is currently British, has been British for longer than it's been Spanish and the residents identify as British, what good would it do discussing the matter any further? And as you mention it, it's even more clear cut on the matter of the Falklands. Other than a brief 10-week spell in 1982, the islands have never been Argentinian. And Argentina claiming land to which belonged to someone else first, of which the inhabitants have made it quite clear they don't want to be Argentinian, all under the guise of "decolonisation" is rather hypocritical.... Not to mention their own colonialisation of regions such as Patagonia.

[@jabato9779]

@@sergarlantyrell7847 Time of possession is absolutely a bogus, invalid and arbitrary argument. Same could be applied to Ukraine under the Russian empire and many other cases. Reasons behind that possession is what should be discerned.

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

@@jabato9779 So all borders that were decided by wars throughout history are invalid? We're going to need to redraw the entirety of Europe then! Personally, I'm looking forward to getting Normandy etc. (that the French stole in the 100 years war) back! And if Ukraine had been part of the Russian empire/federation for the past 300 years AND that was backed up by free elections showing they very much wanted to be Russian, then we'd probably all consider it part of Russia. But the Ukrainians have emphatically proved that they don't want to be Russian.

[@zigongosaurus5274]

​@jabato9779 Okay well here's the "reason" behind the possession of several British territoties: Gibraltar - Ceded by Spain in perpetuity following a successful capture of the territory and the failure of the Spanish to siege it back Northern Ireland - Remained part of the UK to bring an end to the Irish Civil War Falklands - Has had British people on it longer than Argentina has been on any map, successfully defended in 1982

[@Twirlyhead]

Britain's European Union (at the time) and NATO allies, Spain, cheered Argentina through the Falklands War on what can only be seen as racial grounds. Still disgusts me to think of that.

[@fabiosobrin6648]

Las malvinas son Argentinas 🇦🇷

[@4ebees]

@@fabiosobrin6648 I can't seen an Argentine flag over the Islands they never owned. Neither can the people who live there. In fact, you really ought to keep up. What next? The Beagle Islands are yours?

[@fabiosobrin6648]

@@4ebees The Malvinas, as well as Gibraltar, were originally owned by their respective countries, which then some pirates/ organized bandits took. You are in no way lecturing someone on rightfully ownership of land. But it is quite ok👌 Time put everything back in their place, as we shall soon will see for example, with Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@sutixela]

@@fabiosobrin6648 Exacto 🇪🇸 🇦🇷

[@zigongosaurus5274]

​@fabiosobrin6648 Gibraltar has passed hands several times throughout history and ended up in the hands of the British in 1704 and was permanently ceded in 1713. The Falklands have been claimed by England, and later Britain, since 1594, were formally possessed in 1690 and settled in 1765. Argentina didn't even exist until 1816. Scotland made the union and agreed to a once in a lifetime referendum in which they voted to stay in said union. Learn history before you sound like a moron.

[@ordinal2361]

"At least my vehicles in War Thunder are safe" For now m8

[@makaveli2tt]

Very interesting piece of history. Thanks for sharing

[@suburbanCyclist6]

I’ve never been so interested in buying war thunder than when you told me it could distract me from the British colonizing my house

[@GrassyHills202]

I could certainly use that! ''HEY JIMMY IT TIME FOR MURICA!!!!!''

[@tomirk4404]

First time?

[@ConanSoo]

It’s ok, they usually give it back, eventually

[@BlueEye-bb2ub]

British should not return Gibraltar to Spanish Spanish should return Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco free Catalonia 🇬🇧

[@oscarpena7285]

Free Scotland Free Wales, Free the whole Ireland and Free Isle of Man

[@KazeHorse]

@@oscarpena7285they are free. So free that you can go and check the latest snp vote numbers and you are free to have a little cry about it 😂

[@enriquecsmccourt]

Gibraltar is the tax haven, not of England, but of Spain. It is much better than Andorra, and in it there are thousands and thousands of companies of “Spanish capital”, which maintain all this scam. Otherwise, it is hard to understand how a town of thirty thousand inhabitants is capable of producing 2,600 million euros. After Luxembourg, it is the richest region of continental Europe, 82,000 euros per llanito. Go and see if it gives that impression.

[@louisurquhart9466]

i mean luxembergs gdp per capita is still way higher with those statistics

[@twestgard2]

If exclaves are bad, North Africa would like a word with Spain.

[@jorgec.a3123]

It's not the same, not at all. To begin with Gibraltar is a recognized colony while Ceuta and Melilla are recognized Spanish land.

[@twestgard2]

@@jorgec.a3123 “recognized” in what way and by whom? Here’s what I recognize: Gibraltar is on the Iberian peninsula and is close to exactly one country: Spain. UK took it and is holding it expressly because it’s militarily useful. The neighboring countries recognize that they’re at a military disadvantage because having a foothold on land is a huge advantage in a war. Basically all the same things are true of the Spanish exclaves which are… where? Next to what country? These answers are not Spain. And yes, my own country the US has a list of the same or similar problems. I’d be a fool to try to defend those territorial possessions while criticizing others for the same behavior. Whether it’s Gibraltar or Melilla or Hawaii, these are all military threats to foreign countries, and that’s the type of “recognition” that matters.

[@jorgec.a3123]

@@twestgard2 Britain isn't a military threat to Spain dude, we are NATO allies and have quite a friendly relationship. What are you on about? You've only shown your utter ignorance about how the world works. Gibraltar is internationally recognized by the UN as a territory pending decolonization, aka a colony. Ceuta and Melilla are internationally recognized by the EU, UN and NATO as Spanish territories part of the country of Spain, they aren't exclaves and they aren't colonies. So maybe educate yourself before saying stupid things online, yes?

[@twestgard2]

@@jorgec.a3123 Or how about you do some learning. Usually Americans are the ones with no historical scope. NATO is only 74 years old; Britain took Gibraltar from Spain 319 years ago and for most of that time Spain and Britain have been starkly at odds. For that matter, Spain was literally still a fascist country run by an ally of Hitler and therefore not part of NATO until 1982, making your argument that Spain and Britain are longtime BFFs pretty absurd. Beyond that, the NATO treaty isn’t even an attempt to resolve these internal conflicts, all it does is freeze them in place. Every NATO country is still jockeying for position because everyone involved is perfectly aware that treaties come and go all the time, and nobody wants to be the defenseless fat grub on top when the protective cover comes off. And beyond that, Spain and the UK still engage in competition and it’s kept quiet because both sides benefit diplomatically by not having a public spat. That doesn’t mean they always get along. Other than that, lol, sure buddy.

[@jorgec.a3123]

@@twestgard2 you are seriously trying to lecture me about my own country? Typical American stupidity. Yeah buddy you lot of democracies left the Spanish republic alone during the civil war and thanks to that and American cooperation with Franco's regime we were under a dictatorship for 40 years , we've been a democracy for well over 50 years now and nobody said anything about Spain and UK being BFFs , I said that Spain is a NATO member and one of the lost relevant members of the EU on top of that we have good and friendly relationships with all of western Europe including the UK. So yeah again how about you educate yourself before saying such BS. We in Spain couldn't care less about Gibraltar by itself, what we care about is the fact that their police and the royal navy keep meddling in the matters of our police and navy that they don't respect our waters, that they keep.untergefing with the work of our police and navy, that they don't respect environmental laws that apply in the whole of their Mediterranean and we are the ones who have to do the cleaning up, that they are a tax safehaven, that they aid smugglers and drug dealers and a long list of offenses.

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

Spain,”Hold a referendum and prove the people don’t want us”, UK, “OK”. The people vote and 99.9% vote to remain British. Spain, “Not good enough, it was too close.”

[@MrYahboo]

Not that I support Spain in this dispute but that never happened..

[@tSp289]

Meanwhile 51.9% is an overwhelming majority and a clear mandate.

[@ProjectEkerTest33]

@@MrYahboo Yes it did? In 2002 there was a referendum in Gibraltar and 98.97% voted to remain under British sovereignty

[@MrYahboo]

@@ProjectEkerTest33 he must have edited his post. It didn't say 99.% before. It was probably just a typo but that's what I was picking up on.

[@ProjectEkerTest33]

@@MrYahbooThere's no "(edited)" so I don't think he has

[@LaVerdadeslaverdad]

What matters is what the people of those places want. Those in Melilla and Ceuta want to remain Spanish and the people of Gibraltar want to remain British. End of.

[@kevinbrown5737]

Tell the Diego's to stuff it up their Jacksee

[@bishal-max]

Rule Britannia 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

[@Dani-Nani]

One of the pressing issues between Spain and Gibraltar are the waters aroudn the rock. Spain says the Utrech treaty only allowed the land of Gibraltar, never the waters that surround it. This is even a greater issue when Gibraltar laws allows for things foribidden by Spain or the EU, like the refueling of ships between them on the sea instead of refuiling at a port. This allow for murky oil of unkwon origin to be transfered between tanquers and ships, with the highly risk of spill over. In fact a few months ago one of this refueling at sea practices spilt A LOT of oil into the sea that affected mostly spanish beaches and waters. This obiously infuriated Spain as they are getting poluted by a neighbor that doesn't give a fuck about it

[@adamlakeman7240]

So Spain is a colossal hypocrite considering the staggering environmental damage its fishing fleet famously do in British waters where they laugh off the concept of a "closed season" and swarm nesting grounds the moment British ships leave? Got it.

[@t.wcharles2171]

However the treaty is overruled by the international law of the Sea in which no country or territory may have a 'dry coast' and thus Gibraltar by law must have territorial water.

[@littleshep5502]

However, due to UNCLOS, Gibraltar has territorial waters, with the UN overruling the treaty of Utrecht. Same reason why gibraltar could become independent should it so desire

[@jorgec.a3123]

​@@t.wcharles2171But Gibraltar doesn't have any territorial waters or airspace, it's all Spanish

[@littleshep5502]

@@jorgec.a3123 Gibraltar has both its own airspace, and three miles of territorial waters, both confirmed by the UN

[@MrColaKO]

I missed a minute in the video talking about Gibraltar's behavior. Gibraltar has been a tax haven, a paradise for smugglers, drug and arms dealers. It houses thousand of offshore companies and hosts lots of online gambling businesses. It also regularly spills from refueling ships. People living in Gibraltar have become very wealthy due to these advantages and their existance sucks potential from their surrounding Spanish area. I wouldn't care less about sovereignty, but I would love Gibraltar to be an integral part of the UK inside the Single Market like Northern Ireland so there could be no check points between Gibraltar and Spain, with free movement and no shady activities being performed in The Rock. But Gibraltarians would never allow for it because their wealth comes from remaining a tax haven.

[@FriedrichBarb]

Never heard of something more incorrect/outdated in my life, you still speak as if its the 1960s-1990s, Police technology has progressed to a point where these are no longer issues, and if you think there isnt more smuggling across the rest of South Spain then thats laughable. Any serious crime is nearly non-existent in Gibraltar As for Tax haven, Andorra is also a Spanish tax haven, I dont see the surrounding economy affected, likewise with Switzerland or Luxembourg, so is generally a excuse and skill issue for La Linea

[@joefer5360]

@@FriedrichBarb Lmao. Look at the Gibraltar resident defending their criminal racket.

[@FriedrichBarb]

@@joefer5360 Im serious usually I enjoy political arguements, but in this case youre just 100% saying lies that you have 0 idea about, I was born and raised in Gibraltar and there is a gigantic middle class who make the majority who do not participate or even see any criminality of the sorts mentioned above whatsoever. Andorra is also a tax haven and it does not affect surrounding areas, the Spanish dont critique it because its a Spanish microstate

[@JM-iq5up]

@MrColaKO , I am from Gibraltar , and at one point in time smuggling was prevalent , but one thing that you should come to realise is that there is high unemployment rates in La Línea , and the smuggling has fed families on both sides of the border for decades ! Smuggling initially started with commodities such as sugar when the border closed and then tobacco once the border was opened. With regards to your comments on drug dealers , possibly there are some, I won’t disagree, but maybe if you took a walk down London or puerto Banus in Marbella on a Friday or Saturday evening you might come to realise that drugs are an issue that plague most countries on the planet, in fact , most drugs are smuggled into Gibraltar ! As Gibraltar is so small it is hard for organised crime groups to have large quantities of drugs stored in Gibraltar, as law enforcement agencies would snuff them out rather quickly … your comment on arms dealers is absolutely ludicrous in my opinion , maybe you could evidence this claim somehow ? I agree with your comment about the offshore betting companies and the bunkering , but then again there is a massive oil refinery just across the straight of Gibraltar and a large port. (Apart from Valencia this is where a lot of narcotics enter Europe .. there are plenty of articles with regards to this point online). Gibraltar generates funds within the surrounding area due to tourism, hence, the new hotels/rentals opening on the Spanish side of the border. Looking forward to your response ! :)

[@FriedrichBarb]

@@JM-iq5up ​ You make many good points that are true and I agree with. The main point I feel youre missing though is that this comment was purely from one of the few Spanish Nationalists that hate Gibraltar and Llanitos, that use this part of our past as propaganda to lie and claim that *the vast majority* of our economy is from only crime, which is just total bs obviously and puts a very ugly bad reputation for Gibraltar. Its a part of our History that we should be ashamed of or at least not proud, but youre right when you say its an international issue.

[@cyrusthegreat7030]

It should belong to the persian empire glory to Eranshahr.

[@NativeVsColonial]

What? From where did Persia came here? The Morocco may have some rights in Gibraltar, but Iran?

[@atrebuchet5267]

This is true it is clearly rightfully a part of the independent economic kingdom of anarchist Atlantis.@@NativeVsColonial

[@cueball6969]

I thought the idea of 'decolonisation' was to give people the right to determine their own path? The people of Gibraltar have spoken; I care more about what the people have to say than some committee does Same goes for the Falklands and other territories that are happy with their arrangements

[@4ebees]

This is the bit people miss all the time. Spain: "Oh, oh, give us this place we signed over centuries ago. We've changed our mind and don't like those contracts now. DECOLONISE" UK: "Okay. We'll ask the locals what they want to do. All part of the 'decolonising' process." Spain: "Who cares what they want" Exactly.

[@MrZnarffy]

It is british.. If spain wants it, it can start a war for it.. Wait, that's why they lost it...

[@Gloriaimperial1]

You should not underestimate Spain. We lost Gibraltar by treaty, during a civil war with international participation of 13 powers on our territory, which caused a destruction of 60% of the economy. It was not a direct confrontation between England and Spain. For example, in 1739-48 Spain won the War of Jenkins' Ear, capturing and destroying 400 British ships in all seas. At that time we invaded Italy, defeating the Austrian Empire. In 1741 we destroyed 50 British ships in Cartagena de Indias, Colombia In 1779-82, the time of the last Spanish attack on Gibraltar, we easily defeated the British in Florida, Louisiana, Menorca, Central America, Uruguay and Menorca. And a Spanish fleet made a naval blockade of the United Kingdom, capturing two British fleets of 24 and 55 ships, which sank the London stock exchange. Independence from the USA. Gibraltar was a very difficult rock to attack. In 1790 or so, Spain had a plan to invade Australia with 100 frigates. It was easier to invade Australia on the other side of the world than Gibraltar. But then the French Revolutionary Wars (1792-1802) began. Without having recovered, we started the war against the United Kingdom and Portugal (1802-1807). We defeated Nelson 3 times, cutting off Nelson's arm. We lost at Cape St. Vincent, Trafalgar and Trinidad and Tobago, but we won against the British in Puerto Rico and Argentina and Uruguay 1806-07, capturing the British redcoats and generals. In 1808 France invaded Spain with 100,000 soldiers. We initially defeated the French army, but Napoleon himself entered Spain with 300,000 soldiers, and that resulted in half a million deaths here, and 80% of the economy being destroyed. Destruction of cities, fleets in ports, industry, roads, agriculture, livestock... The United Kingdom was an island, and that is why it was not invaded. Even before the end of that war, Spain had a war in continental America (1810-1825), also a liberal revolt (1820-1823) and the Carlist war (1833-41). After that apocalypse of wars, Spain could not invade Gibraltar. The United Kingdom took advantage of the Napoleonic wars that destroyed continental Europe. Great empire (1815-1945) But since 1960, Spain has been developing faster than before. In 1960, the United Kingdom had 7 times the GDP of Spain (due to the international blockade of Spain, for 20 years, after the civil war) In 2000, the United Kingdom had 3 times the GDP of Spain In 2020, the United Kingdom had 2 times the GDP of Spain The Spanish population is also growing In 1900, the United Kingdom and France had 2 times the population of Spain In 1960, the United Kingdom and France had 1/3 more population than Spain In 2020, the United Kingdom and France had 1/4 more population than Spain Argentina has doubled its population since 1982, the's Malvinas War, while the United Kingdom has increased its population by 15%. Spain manufactures its own aircraft carriers (which Australia buys), state-of-the-art frigates and submarines that launch missiles at 1900 km. We have the capacity to create nuclear missiles from 1970. But international pressure, after the civil war, prevented it. I don't believe in wars to solve these international problems. But it is better not to underestimate Spain.

[@MrZnarffy]

@@Gloriaimperial1 Yes it is.. You don't have nukes.. And two.. You signed a legally binding agreement.. You signed away Gibraltar. Live with it.

[@Gloriaimperial1]

@@MrZnarffy Spain has had the capacity to make nuclear missiles since 1970. We have built several nuclear power plants here for 40 years. And now we have submarines that launch missiles to 1900 km. But countries that "lost" the world war or were condemned internationally, such as Italy, Germany, Japan and Spain, could not have nuclear bombs during the US-Soviet Union tension. But even if the UK has nuclear bombs, it cannot use them. In Spain there are more than 4 million people from all countries of the world. Among them more than 100,000 Britons, and tens of thousands of Americans, Russians, Chinese, Arabs, Germans, French, or millions of Latin Americans. Imagine a nuclear bomb killing those people, and affecting Gibraltar with radioactivity. War in NATO is very unlikely. But if tomorrow we remove the clause of 1714, which obliges the UK to return Gibraltar to Spain, in case of abandoning the colony, Gibraltar can enter the European Union. In the Brexit referendum, 98% of the population of Gibraltar voted to remain in the European Union. France has Monaco. Spain has Andorra. Italy has San Marino and the Vatican. We can have Gibraltar as an independent mini-country, and then we don't have to listen to the arrogance of the British.

[@jorgemartinsanchez1090]

@@MrZnarffy UK has nukes but can't use them, they are basically decoration. UK without the help of USA would lose a war even against north corea. Also modern soldiers of UK wouldn't even go to war, they are more worried about being woke than defending their country, UK in a 1 vs 1 would lose a war against almost every european country including Spain

[@Andrew-w2q2m]

England is losing world prestige. England will become majority muslim in 50 years and due to that internal division will be unable to really project military force. At that point spain could easily invade Gibraltar and take it.​@MrZnarffy

[@suevialania]

Return?😂 Gibraltar people decide from referendum, No! What about Olivença??? And Catalonia? Basque Country? Galiza? The Morocco cities of Ceuta & Melilla? And Canary/ Guanche Islands in North África? And Bósnia, Kosovo, Montenegro return to Serbia? Hercegovina return to Croatia? Faroe Islands? Friesland? Corsica? Thracia/ Istanbul? Baltica/ Kaliningrad? Double standards! That's why Putin's did the invasion of Ukraine!😢

[@anhidric1]

Spain doesn't want Gibraltar. What they want is UK to respect the Utrecht Treaty and stop anoying spanish forces in the waters surrounding Gibraltar and to return the airport ground and beyond which they steal from Spain in the last 100 years. But asking a thieve to give something back is always a lost battle.

[@Ibnfunk]

How about they trade for it with Ceuta and Melilla or the Canaries. The UK doesn't want Ceuta, Melilla, or the Canaries. It just wants all the ex-fascist spanish speaking countries to respect UK sovereignty and to stop annoying peaceful UK citizens.

[@anhidric1]

@@Ibnfunk One simple question, even for you: was the Gibraltar airport zone included in Utrecht Treaty?

[@anhidric1]

No answer? 😆

[@ekosh6266]

​@@Ibnfunk time for my daily meada mirando a la perfida albion. Seems like even nowadays, people living there are still equally idiotic

[@crazyduck156]

The treaty of Utrecht is superseded by modern international laws

[@MrYahboo]

Very first line... "...known for its great food..." Where's the 'great food' in Gib? I'd love to know, given that I work there.

[@asdrattyler1906]

Compared to British food it's divine 🤣🤣🤣

[@simonyoung786]

bought fair and square.. whats the problem? And how would Rommel and Napoleon have fared if the Brits had not had this base?

[@מ.מ-ה9ד]

"The Rock"

[@jebbo-c1l]

its kind of funny how Spain at the same time refuses to give up its own Gibraltars in Morocco

[@novedad4468]

It is definitely interesting but their are also key differences. Spain didn't expell anybody in Ceuta or Melilla, Ceuta was inherited from Portugal and Melilla was an abandoned city back then. Those cities were conquered before some of it's peninsular territories. Spain is territorially close to said cities, not thousands of miles away. At the time of it's conquest, colonialism was not yet a thing. I think those characteristics make it arguably a different scenario.

[@occam7382]

@@novedad4468, "At the time of it's conquest, colonialism was not yet a thing." What? What are you talking about? Colonialism has been a thing for millennia! It was a thing since the days of the Ancient Greeks! What the hell are you smoking, dude?

[@novedad4468]

@@occam7382 chill out, "dude". It's a 200 word Yt comment, not a thesis dissertation, ofc there's gonna be some simplifications. But I think we can all agree that the transoceanic European colonialism of the Modern Age was different than the Phoenician, Ancient greek, Arab or Norse colonialism. Even Early and late European colonialism have little to do with each other. With that context, for late middle age Iberians the concept of a metropoli and a colony did not apply to their conquests in North Africa, same as it didnt for Turks in the Balkans or Cyprus. Hell, the Irish territories of The Pale and the Angevin empire had more of a colony than Melilla ever did.

[@xabitron]

they are rightfully spanish cause they were originally pobalyted by Portuguese and then handed as a gift, they have been spanish since medieval times it's not the same

[@jorgec.a3123]

​@@occam7382Ceuta and Melilla are internationally recognized as Spanish land, Gibraltar is considered a colony by the UN

[@dwightschrute1914]

I'm seeing in the comments people willfully igonoring arguably the most important aspect to this debate - the opinion of the people living there. They have stated that they wish to be an autonomous region of the UK, so why deliberately sew chaos over the issue in a change of governance. It seems to be some moronic nationalism from both Brits and Spaniards as to who owns one small rock. Seems stupid to be at each other's throats over an issue solved by the people that live there 🤷‍♂️🇬🇮

[@occam7382]

You clearly have no understanding of human beings' capacity to be incredibly short-sighted and obsessed over a small patch of rock and dirt. We're funny like that.

[@dwightschrute1914]

@@occam7382 If I had a penny for all the times Nationalism led humans to kill each other over scraps of nothing, I'd be the richest man on Earth. It's a shame politicians and corporations willingly weaponise humanity's stupidity and hatred over others for profit. I'm unfortunately all too aware of our short sighted nature, and what a dark comedy we play for ourselves as a result :(

[@lynxfresh5214]

​​@@dwightschrute1914Here here! There's nothing wrong with being patriotic but when it's crosses over into nationalism (often fuelled by frail egos), it inevitably leads to senseless conflict over the most inconsequential of things just to prove a naive sense of superiority over other people by sacrificing your own people (logically right?).

[@axelgonzalez5992]

Because the original people that lived in Gibraltar was kicked out by the british

[@dwightschrute1914]

@@axelgonzalez5992 Ok? That does not represent the current opinion of the inhabitants of Gibraltar though, and the people currently in Gibraltar wish to stay as an autonomous area of the UK. If anyone can really argue that Gibraltar should be returned to Spain, even if the people living there do not want to, by that logic, Calais should be English because it was stolen by the French, Kaliningrad should be returned to Germany because it was taken by the Russians, and Texas should be returned to Mexico because it was taken by the Americans. You could suggest all these things and other insane ideas, all of which would cause unrest and wars all across the world, or people could just listen to the population of the regions they live, and give them representation based upon that consent, rather than giving into this strange revanchist doctrine that nationalists seem all too keen to bring in.

[@SirEnVo]

I just came back from Gibraltar the other day! It was such a lovely blend of cultures from my home of England/UK but yet very different in other kind of Spanish reminents of previous culture.

[@milmo_thefurry]

ty! - a furry from gibraltar

[@radoslavhandzhiev6977]

Great video! I will never shut up about how awesome and magnificent of a place Gibraltar is!

[@milmo_thefurry]

ty! - a furry from gibraltar

[@EduardoSanchez-ls5te]

Una mierda de roca que ojalá algún día vuele por los aires.

[@MyLittleMagneton]

"give back" lol, it's been British for longer than it's been Spanish.

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

False

[@KazeHorse]

@@user-cm9pt8bo3lall evidence says it’s true.

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

@@KazeHorse Hahahahahaha! Get a History Book.

[@KazeHorse]

@@user-cm9pt8bo3l “the Spanish were mopped by the British so badly that they lost a strategic piece of land for over 300 years despite only having been a country for 250 years. They never did stop crying about it.” - history book.

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

@@KazeHorse Hahahahahahahaha!

[@malehumanperson7901]

(But will they?) No Didn't bother watching the video with such an absurd premise.

[@Ignore_this_channel]

When looking at Gibraltar (nice) and compare it to La Línea (slum) there is no wonder why the population wants to belong to UK.

[@MrColaKO]

La Línea is the result of a parasitic economy created by Gibraltar including tobacco and drug smuggling.

[@JorgeHernandez-ko5bb]

ignored

[@JorgeHernandez-ko5bb]

you mean the slums in Leed,s Manchester, Hull, etc? why are british pensionists / nomads going to Alicante instead of radiant full british Gibraltar?

[@CountScarlioni]

@@JorgeHernandez-ko5bb Because your economy is desperate for the tourist money. Spain is constantly trying to bribe in the British with endless UK ad campaigns and subsidised deals. Ever heard the phrase "never bite the hand that feeds you"?

[@SnorriTheLlama]

@@JorgeHernandez-ko5bbBecause they are cheaper and sunnier?

[@castlerock58]

Spain has no case. Their king ceded the territory to the British king by treaty.

[@MichaelSidneyTimpson]

Have they ever considered total integration into the UK? anyway seems they like the Manx/Channel Islander/Falklander status deal.

[@uingaeoc3905]

It is in fact a British Overseas Territory. as is Falklands along with 14 other outposts. The Manx and Channel IIsanders are Crown Colonies, different status.

[@MichaelSidneyTimpson]

true@@uingaeoc3905

[@michaelmccomb2594]

There has been some consideration for this in the recent Parliamentary debate on Overseas Territories. This would give Gibraltar an MP and thus a voice in the British Parliament. However, it may also reduce the power of the Parliament of Gibraltar, which is effectively self-governing, apart from defence and foreign relations.

[@EnriqueScottish]

Realistically you can’t compare Spanish Northern African enclaves with Gibraltar. Ceuta & Mellila plus another handful of isles, were handed over to the Spanish crown after the Portuguese had no natural successor of their crown & territories. Having read about this, it seems once Portugal reinstated their monarchy around mid 1600s, Ceuta & Melilla because they had been Spanish cities with fully rights since late 1400’s then chose to remain Spanish and rejected their chance to go back to the Portuguese crown. Bare in mind Morroco is a modern country, that surged after colonialism ended in Africa, so no actual country that still is one nowadays, has the historical right to reclaim both enclaves & isles. Now in the other hand, Gibraltar was conquered and kept by the British, taking advantage of a weak Spanish crown and army at the time. So Spain, historically speaking, does have a right to reclaim this territory. Now, if you go and search for the different treaties made between Spain & Britain, you can see Britain have not kept their word and have expanded their territory without agreeing it with Spain, we’ve even built an airport in “No mans land”. This has literally added more unnecessary tension between the parts. I just think if Britain kept their word at the time, Spain wouldn’t complain about it and things could be way more natural. Maybe even a shared territory between the countries. End of the day, thousands of British people like myself live here in Spain for retirement also thousands of Spanish work in the UK too. Conclusion, us normal people, Spanish and British do get along well and do cooperate.

[@davidclowes-pritchard6679]

The Catalans maintain that they are occupied against their will by Spain. Spain has not enjoyed a great tradition of liberal democracy. The Spanish governments record in this respect is possibly a contributary factor in the reluctance to be governed by Madrid. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJK0ZZKsZcutbM0 The British record whilst imperfect is better. A few years ago they witnessed a religious intolerance issue in Ireland so partitioned the island in an attempt to resolve the issue. Later they witnessed a nationalist movement in Scotland so organized a referendum and the people got what they asked for. At about the same time the people voiced concern about a perceived federal Europe, they held a referendum and again the people got what they wanted. Similarly Britain has had some horrendous failures such giving Menorca to Spain which ended in Genocide cultural oppression and colonization. Having not learned from that experience the British government gave Hongkong to the Chinees and so the slaughter continues. Madrid controls 506,030 km² have they ever asked the Spanish people if they want to invade Gibraltar for an extra 7km²? If asked do you think they would choose to oppress another nation or opt to have a handy escape hatch from the Spanish Government? Democracy is imperfect, it will always result in a minority. The Spanish people who have sadly witnessed the alternative would never vote to oppress Gibraltar.

[@caleidoscopio4770]

Catalan independentists believe that Cristobal Columbus and Santa Teresa DE ÁVILA were Catalans. And that it was Cataluña the one that conquered the Kingdom of Aragón. I can't believe there are people still take them seriously.

[@ahsanurr4219]

Free Basque, Galicia and Catalonia from Spain

[@ekosh6266]

Those regions are Spain... What are you talking about. Its not like scotland or northern ireland that were literally invaded

[@ahsanurr4219]

@@ekosh6266 BS! The majority of people in Scotland and NI don't want to get independence from Britain. Catalonia, Galicia and Navarra have been invaded by Spain. Nice try!

[@THISISLolesh]

Are they forgetting the Canary Islands

[@SiodogRehane]

Wow the racism at the comments for a piece of land or not that they will never step on, gotta be humans+internet

[@ekosh6266]

Its not racist if Its true

[@backgammonbacon]

Please note Spain does not want Gibraltar it official gave that up when it joined NATO as that required all disputes to be resolved. You can always find a couple of crazy Spanish politicians that will say they want it but what they say isn't Spanish policy.

[@ekosh6266]

How is It that one politician can say he does not want it, and It becomes the will of Spain, but now another says hey we want that back, also the treaty of Utrecht has been violated, people vote fot that party but thats not even politic

[@IbrahimStanikzai]

Spain being hypocrite although i don't like brits either but spain have no right on that rock atleast don't be hypocrite

[@xabitron]

they were spanish from the start morocco wasn't there at any time so they are rightfully spanis. gibrartal WAs spanish and the the brits stole it

[@IbrahimStanikzai]

@@xabitron morroco was there .Stop recreating the history Spain was formed in 1492 meanwhile morroco in 760 AD .marined dynasty rule over morroco just like Habsburgs rule over Spain.They were not Spainish from start .Never will be.Spain stole north African cities it will pay a price.Morroco will eventually retake it it was rightfully morrocan territory stolen by Iberian Spainish which has nothing to do with morroco

[@xabitron]

it wasn't Morocco, something similar yes but not the country of Morocco also those places were given by Portugal as A GIFT@@IbrahimStanikzai

[@littleshep5502]

@@xabitron And Gibraltar was traded to the UK. Your point?

[@xabitron]

it was stolen after a war@@littleshep5502

[@MENSA.lady2]

Gibraltar has been British for over 300 years and will stay British as long as the Gibraltarian population want it. Last time the were asked they voted over 99% to stay British.

[@Augusto9588]

Now do eastern Ukraine

[@Jaie55]

Exactly, as It should be. Greetings from Spain

[@idontknowofausername6231]

Bro the british kicked out and killed the spaniards living there at the time and put english people there, what do you think would happen?

[@decrulez]

@@idontknowofausername6231it’s going to blow your mind when you heard what the Spanish did to the Mayan’s. Spoilers they created Mexicans.

[@idontknowofausername6231]

@@decrulez you do know most of the gold stayed in the Americas and was invested there right? On the other hand, England literally massacred the natives while the spanish made families with them, most of the deaths being from diseases. Why do you think a lot of people on latin america are of indigenous descent, while basically none on the US or Canada are?

[@markdowding5737]

Spain when talking about Gibraltar: "It's our territory! It was unlawfully ceded to Britain over 300 years ago and we want it back regardless of what the locals think Spain when talking to Olivença: "Doesn't matter if we are legally bound to return the territory to Portugal one day. The locals want to keep being part of Spain so we should prioritize their wishes"

[@adriancampos8640]

The treaty said Uruguay for Olivenza.

[@Potsgud]

​@@joaocosta3374your mum is based. Based in a brothel 😂

[@nosirve9458]

Spain was going to return Olivenca but Portugal attacked Uruguay. But yes, as a spaniard, if you really care so much why not.

[@whoareyouyouareclearlylost323]

Morocco also wants Melilla and Cueta back from Spain tho

[@ekosh6266]

So what, those are not moroccan lands. You know what else is not moroccan? West africa

[@whoareyouyouareclearlylost323]

@@ekosh6266 Spanish colonizers

[@ekosh6266]

@@whoareyouyouareclearlylost323 no colonies were ever made by Spain

[@whoareyouyouareclearlylost323]

@@ekosh6266 lol this guy over here 🤣

[@HankD13]

It all comes down to the Gibraltarians - when THEY want to a part of Spain, it will be a part of Spain. Self Determination is a fundamental UN principle.

[@jovanradjawane3003]

"But also calm my nerves as all my belongings are sent to the British museum. " 😂🤣

[@adamlakeman7240]

From 414AD to 711AD (297 years) Gibraltar was owned by the Visigoths From 711AD to 1462AD (751 years) Gibraltar was owned by the Almohads From 1462 to 1713 (251 years) Gibraltar was owned by Spain From 1713 to the current year (310 years and counting) Gibraltar has been owned by Great Britain At this point it's been British longer than it was ever Spanish.

[@randomguy6152]

they claimed it the entire time however and they just kept losing why should they lose their claim if they never accepted total defeat

[@VictorLdVS]

That's a stupid argument

[@cian9816]

@@VictorLdVS it really isnt

[@VictorLdVS]

@@cian9816 It really is, time doesn't change anything in this case.

[@adamlakeman7240]

@@VictorLdVS No stupider than "it's near us and anyway you let jews live there so the treaty we signed to let you have it is null and void"

[@outnapped2]

I’m curious about what are some of the other issues with sharing, like what would need to be contrôlée by each government

[@carlituox]

I was wondering if you were going to explain how the british got the terrain for the runaway, of course not, it just simply happended... based anglo propaganda.

[@JOzzie-u8z]

Spoils of war Spain even Gibraltar wants to remain British just like the Falklands

[@ekosh6266]

Britain violated the treaty

[@ZenioDovgj]

Wonder why Marocco doesn't want to take part in the dispute 🤣

[@DiegoGarcia-en4sf]

Because they are two different cases. Gibraltar was robbed, Spain has Ceuta and Melilla way before the country of Morocco and Moroccan identity were created

[@Matt-tx1tc]

@@DiegoGarcia-en4sf Robbed? Lost in a war and gave away in a treaty is a stretch from getting "robbed"

[@moatazyacour9971]

​@@DiegoGarcia-en4sfbroo goo to the library and learn the true history hahhahaha morocco ( al maghrib al aqsa ) existed before spain and ceuta and mellila were part of him

[@SnorriTheLlama]

@@DiegoGarcia-en4sfThey are two different cases because you want to justify them as such, whilst the two have some key similarities. Both involve a local population that identifies more closely with the culture and nationality of a far away mainland, instead of the country right next to them that they share a land border with. The inhabitants of both, which were also born there, want to remain with their current national identity. If Spain is smart, they will build closer ties so Gibraltar inhabitants become more closely aligned with them over a generation or two. They should probably start that right about now, or ideally 50 years ago. Would resolve a lot of political headaches for the UK if the people of Gibraltar wanted to join Spain, so the ball is in the Spanish court to win the local opinion.

[@nosirve9458]

@@moatazyacour9971 Comparing Gibraltar to Ceuta and Melilla is pure ignorance. Anyone who does so is demonstrating ignorance. Why? First, Ceuta and Melilla are "territorios metropolitanos," meaning they are just like any other city in Spain. Ceuta was previously Portuguese before becoming Spanish, and Melilla was part of the Carthaginian Empire, the Roman Empire, Visigothic Hispania (now Spain), the Byzantine Empire, and lastly, the Muslim Empire. It was abandoned by its inhabitants and was reoccupied by Spain in 1497 after being found occupied by pirates. Ceuta and Melilla were part of Spain long before Morocco was officially formed in 1956. Even if we consider the earlier Baladi dynasty, which can be regarded as "old Morocco" and was established in 1666, Ceuta and Melilla had been part of Spain for over 200 years in that time. Historically, there is no justification to argue that Ceuta and Melilla are part of Morocco or that they are colonies. I hope this helps clarify the key differences between Gibraltar, a colony, and the Spanish metropolitan towns, Ceuta and Melilla, and why the UN considers Gibraltar a colony but not the other two. If anyone still disagrees, I strongly encourage them to read more about it. Cheers.

[@SuperJibulus]

This is a great explanatory video of why Gibraltar is British 👍

[@stevens1041]

My Spanish friends told me, if UK really wants to do something impressive, it should give Gibraltar to Portugal. That would make them very happy, trust me.

[@VictorLdVS]

They can't, they can only give it back to Spain

[@aloxpeexd302]

A a spanish i prefer even germany or USA with the control of gibraltar than the uk

[@VictorLdVS]

@@aloxpeexd302 Ni de coña hermano, Estados Unidos es lo peor que le ha pasado a España

[@littleshep5502]

​@@VictorLdVSthey could, if gibraltar so wanted. Gibraltar could also fully integrate into the UK, or declare independence

[@VictorLdVS]

@@littleshep5502 They can't, in the treaty of Utrecht it was stipulated that Gibraltar could be only a British colony and that in the event that this rule was not respected, the rock had to be immediately ceded to Spain.

[@FranMartosLPC]

Good ammount of propaganda btw

[@riderofthewhitehorse8879]

Gibraltarians want to be British tho

[@sudonum3108]

If it continues to be treated in the same way that the Falkland Islands dispute is I don’t see it being handed back to Spain. The British have allowed it to become a very unique place with its own tax regime. Why would the people of Gibraltar rejoin Spain knowing full well that it would make a point of stamping out its uniqueness to be replaced forcefully with a very visibly Spanish identity. It would be awful to witness such a travesty.

[@aloxpeexd302]

Yep but the majority of spanish people and our goverment we dont care that much about the rock we still have ports with a lot of comerce valor in the area, the problem is that gibraltar is one of the focals points of smuglin and corruption of our country, the majority of the people want to stop being disrepected by gibraltar and his agresive police of expanding their border and waters, that by the treaty of utrech is illegal. And more than one incident of envirometnal damage have been provoked by the british in the area, a thing that as you will gues dont make a lot of friends in the area.

[@Happyfor96]

its not going to be their choice :)

[@Lucas24997]

Spain has offered time and time again things like giving Gibraltar autonomy or even a corulership of the Rock, wich they have regected. For Spain the problem is mostjy that Gibraltar actively hampers the local economy by being a tax heaven and having less stricts enviromental practices that harm the enviroment and the quality of life in the area. I woundt care if they keep being British, but they need to start playing by the rules and not fucking up with their neightbours

[@littleshep5502]

​@@aloxpeexd302gibraltars current borders are recognized by the UN, and it's territorial waters are confirmed by UNCLOS. Both of these overrule the treaty of Utrecht

[@littleshep5502]

​@@Happyfor96it is their choice, no one other than the gibraltarians can decide

[@simpson168168]

Clearly it’s belong to the glorious Arstotka.

[@staggabob]

Britain itself has some fantastic beaches but Gibraltar appears to have just the one mediocre man made looking one 🤨

[@KazeHorse]

Yeah but it’s got a big hill, tunnels and monkeys so it’s pretty cool anyway

[@bobwilson2357]

The irony of a German mocking UK food! 🤣

[@ali20396]

If Gibraltar is Spanish, then Melilla and Ceuta are Moroccan .

[@hugomartinez2387]

NO? ITS LITERALLY SO DIFFERENT, CEUTA AND MELILLA HAVE BEEN SPANISH FOR 600 YEARS, 300 BEFOR EVEN MOROCCO WAS A COUNTRY, WHILE GIBRALTAR WAS A SPANISH LAND INVADED BY THE UK.

[@occam7382]

@@hugomartinez2387, Morocco has been a country since the 9th Century, when Britain and Spain weren't even ideas yet.

[@hugomartinez2387]

thats literally not true, its like saying italy was a country because roman empire existed b.c@@occam7382

[@Desco51]

​@@occam7382Visigoths already called themselves hispanics, pork fanatic

[@occam7382]

@@Desco51, that would've been in reference to the Roman region of Hispania, which the Visigoths conquered and settled. The modern idea of Spain came from the merger of the Kingdoms of Castille-Leon and Aragon, neither of which existed when Morocco was founded. Also what the hell does pork fanatic mean?

[@Gloriosus]

This is a well made, balanced and informative introduction to a complex situation.

[@Kanmeii]

As a Spanish person, any spaniard that actually knows about economy will know that Gibraltar being British is actually better than it being Spanish. Spanish people go there for work and since the UK is better economically speaking than Spain, it's benefitial. If Spain gets better economically than the UK (which I doubt) then things would start to be different.

[@quimera7012]

Como decirtelo, es como si me dijeras que un mosquito chupandote la sangre es bueno por que al mismo tiempo q te roba la sangre te mete un tranquilizante para que no la sientas... Que Gibraltar y los gibraltareños estan de bonanza economica? por supuesto, son un paraiso fiscal que no pagan impuestos, pero eso no significa que generen riqueza, mas bien empobrecen toda la zona de la bahia de Algeciras, q debido a la falta de control unitario maritimo, al desorbitado precio de los productos gibraltareños y a que se lleva toda la inversion, tiene deprimido a La línea y Algeciras, cuya poblacion en muchos casos se dedica al trapicheo o a la venta de drogas, asique no, no es que españa tenga que mejorar la economia por los gibraltareños, es que los gibraltareños hunden la economia de la zona por su situacion particular, asi que ahí va otro motivo para retomar un territorio que en toda su hsitoria nunc les ha pertenecido

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

It's exactly the other way around. According to all statistics, unemployment levels rise as towns get closer to Gibraltar. You have to go a dozen kilometers away to find a normalized economy. It's like a tumor.

[@Kanmeii]

@@user-cm9pt8bo3l Really? If that’s the case then my opinion on the matter would change.

[@Drzahman]

long reach of British propaganda.

[@omeproductions1392]

There is no compromise, RULE BRITANNIA 🇬🇧

[@John-nc4bl]

Some people in the small island nation of Britain continue to drown themselves in nostalgia, are ‘poisoned’ with ‘colonial arrogance’ and ‘dreamy jingoism’.

[@AnthonyWilliams-vh1ds]

I enjoy that you have a British sense of humour 🤣

[@g111g]

"Whenever the British bayonet is poking me in the back, I like to play warthunder" 😆 😆

[@hugojaime9565]

From a Mexican , please leave Gibraltar alone we can’t afford to lose more territory in the Hispanic world , whatever you do to our Hispanic brothers in Gibraltar we will have to retaliate in California, y’all wanna flex the Anglo-Saxon sphere we’ll have to flex the Hispanic sphere as well , eye for an eye unfortunately

[@oliversherman2414]

The Gibraltarians want to be British

[@Reaganhussy]

What are you yapping

[@oliversherman2414]

@@Reaganhussy no idea mate. I guess he just can't handle the fact that the Gibraltarians want to be British

[@temmie720]

your telling me spain borders uk

[@howardtennant5766]

Spain owns territory in Morocco which is in dispute so is that not a little hippocrititcal

[@boots0444]

Morocco doesnt even have drinkable tap water

[@NUSORCA]

They can try: Gibraltar stays with the UK but the Uk has to give Northern Ireland to Spain

[@robertofulton]

Can we give them the Scottish too?

[@loganjeffrey4136]

​@@robertofulton I would that means I can just move to Spain lol

[@DerekLangdon]

@@robertofulton I bet you didn’t know that the Cornish invented football. But instead of playing with leather balls, they used Englishmen’s heads!

[@stephennelmes4557]

​​@@DerekLangdonSlly boy. Remembe, you and the world speak my language, English but not many people in Cornwall speak Cornish. Cornwall ...Corn = Kernow - Wall = Waelas meaning stranger slave or foreigner.

[@columbannon9134]

What is wrong in your dumb head ....the north of Ireland will going be part of the rest of the island of Ireland, not a trade deal like slavery....Britain should give back all their claimed places back like Gibraltar, and Islas Malvinas ( Falklands islands)

[@CharlesDickson-nv2ol]

In polls the Gibraltar residents overwhelmingly voted to remain British.

[@betaorionis2164]

Well, hardly surprising considering that the original settlers left when the British came and most of the current population is of British origins or directly British expats.

[@Augusto9588]

Now do eastern Ukraine

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

The claim is about the territory, not the people. Simple to understand.

[@CharlesDickson-nv2ol]

@@user-cm9pt8bo3l so you think territory is more important than people?

[@user-cm9pt8bo3l]

@@CharlesDickson-nv2ol The Treaty of Utrecht, which is the only legal basis for the UK's permanence in Gibraltar, clearly states this. The current population of Gibraltar is not a subject of law in this matter, which has always been and will always be about the territory. Let everyone have the nationality they want or can, because that is not and has never been the issue. In fact, it was after the UN urged the UK to decolonize Gibraltar that the Brits took a referendum and that is why Franco closed the fence. The Treaty is very clear. If the llanitos want to remain British or Thai, it is not a problem for Spain or anyone else. And by the way, there was not so much concern when the Brits expelled the inhabitants of Gibraltar who founded San Roque, or when they moved all of them in WW2, leaving Gibraltar empty of civilians.

[@perfidexld]

came here from kaliningrad's server lol

[@danielm6319]

They should swith Ceuta or Mellila with Gibraltar if they really want it.

[@ivanz1811]

One day it will all belong to Galactic Empire. No need to stress now

[@joanlapeyra]

I from Span and I find the Spanish claim on Gibraltar ridiculous. The only reason is pure nationalism.

[@yapsiauwsoengie6507]

The UK is truly shameless, not only in its relations with developing countries, but even with fellow European countries, its attitude is disgusting.

[@zigongosaurus5274]

Maybe Spain should stop coping and seething and we wouldn't have to have such an attitude

[@NigelHatcherN]

Every country got to be by the same rules. You are all jealous hypocrites.

[@pevebe]

😂

[@Deltaflot1701]

Spain always talks big about Gilbratar, and how unfair it is that the English keep control of it, but never eve mention Ceuta, Melilla, and the 11 or 13 (depends on what you count)Plazas de soberanía. Spanish territory in Morroccan land or waters

[@antoniojavieraranda9351]

Not the same, pls read the history of those places and then the Treaty of Urtrech before saying nonsense.

[@Deltaflot1701]

@@antoniojavieraranda9351 How they came to being is irrelevant. The fact that Spain holds foreign land, with Spanish Citizens, with no give in sight over those territories makes Spain look bad when asking Britain to give back Gibraltar.

[@antoniojavieraranda9351]

@@Deltaflot1701 It's not irrelrvant. Inform yourself.

[@Deltaflot1701]

@@antoniojavieraranda9351 I have. Article X of the Peace of Utrecht that Gibraltar belongs to the UK in Perpetuity. That no interference be caused by Gibraltar in Spain’s communications with Cueta. That Roman Catholic lbs be given freedom in Gibraltar. That Spain had some say in what trade occurred in Gibraltar. That Jews and Moors were not to be allowed to live in Gibraltar. There is nothing in Utrecht that says anything about Spain be given sovereignty back. This every time that Spain put Gibraltar under siege, they were attempting to break this treaty. Please tell me where I am uninformed?

[@Deltaflot1701]

@@antoniojavieraranda9351 Ceuta was a Portuguese city until the Spanish used then Iberian union to take it from them when Portugal managed to separate itself from Spain. It’s considered sovereign Spanish territory just like the UK considers Gibraltar part and parcel of the UK. If you’re going to attack my position, have a better argument than “read this that and the other thing before saying nonsense”. I recommend you do just that yourself

[@MatthewAllison-g6q]

When is Spain going to give back southern Spain to the Moors?

[@Gloriaimperial1]

When England returns England to the Normans and Philip II of Spain becomes king there again.

[@grahamunderwood9353]

no chance at all of it going back to spain

[@d333my]

It’s quite simple, but some Spanish still struggle: Why would the UK give it up when the people living there don’t want to, and ultimately it was ceded to the UK by a legitimate treaty? The same cannot be said of Spanish colonies on the north coast of Africa, but the Spanish gloss over that.

[@pmp05]

What colonies??? We handed every colony back to Morocco after the Ifni War, and then Moroccans started acting expansionist with our territories, first with the Sahara and now they are making fake claims with our cities of Ceuta and Melilla, which have been Spanish since the XV century (before the concept of colonialism even existed). I can accept the UK controling Gibraltar but they shall also aknowledge that they are in the Iberian Peninsula and they occupied the land in our Sucession War, the compromise I can accept with them is giving the same status of autonomous city of Ceuta and Melilla, and letting them do their stuff

[@joshuafrimpong244]

@@pmp05 those are true claims, except for Melilla which was never ruled by a Moroccan ruler, and Gibraltar is allowed to do its own thing. It is British territory

[@nosirve9458]

You mean the Treaty that was signed between English and French because the king of Spain died and had no succesors? Oh yes, totally legimitate.

[@KazeHorse]

@@nosirve9458if it wasn’t legitimate, it wouldn’t have stood for over 300 years. But feel free to cry about it (quietly and alone), cheers.

[@briaryos1]

"Gibraltar must be decolonised!" "And Ceuta? Does Ceuta also need to be decolonised?" "Grrrrr."

[@abelmoreno7630]

The main difference is that Ceuta and Melilla have been part of metropolitan Spain before than the modern concept of “Marocco” even existed. Britain took Gibraltar after the formation of Spain, and holds it practically as a colony

[@LTSneed]

Ceuta and Melilla are not colonies

[@briaryos1]

@@abelmoreno7630 They were ceded to Spain in 1668 -- just 45 years before Utrecht. Those who wish to find a difference will find it, and consider it significant enough. It's self-serving.

[@briaryos1]

@@LTSneed of course not. They are simply territories that have belonged to a particular country for 300 years, are separated by a body of water, and contiguous to another country. Just like Gibraltar.

[@realhorrorshow8547]

@@abelmoreno7630Britain backed the winning side in the War of the Spanish Succession - 1701-1715 - which sank all it's combatants in massive debt. Philip V compensated his allies with various trade and territorial concessions. Part of Britain's cut was Gibraltar. So, Spain _gave_ Gibraltar to Britain and has been trying to welsh on the deal ever since. By the way, I notice that this comment is posted word for word higher up the page under a different username. Sock puppeting is bad!

[@romad357]

Supposedly if the Barbary Macaques (originally from Morocco) ever leave Gibraltar, then the British would. This was feared to becoming true when the population was down to 10 at the beginning of the 20th Century. By 1942 the population was only 7 so Churchill ordered several be imported from Morocco to increase the population and gene pool. Hmmm, would Spain be willing to trade Catalonia and Basque independence for Gibraltar?

[@julianbashir8277]

England won it fair and square. Dont come crying 300 years later

[@dreaming_cthulhu]

What’s to stop Spain from trying to get it 300 years later? If Britain could go for it, so can Spain lmao

[@KazeHorse]

@@dreaming_cthulhuyeah they can. So what’s your point? Let them go for it if they’ve got the brass. You and I both know they won’t.

[@zigongosaurus5274]

​@@dreaming_cthulhu Britain being able to kick Spains ass any day of the week is what's stopping them.

[@SarahConnor618]

Much like a bmw in the balkans 😂

[@colanaxis]

The code for Gibraltar Airport is GIB, which is why the UK should Gib Gibraltar back to Spain.

[@SirSlothable]

self determination is one of the cornerstones in western democracy and the people disagree with you

[@Valencetheshireman927]

@@SirSlothableTrue, but I think he was just making a joke

[@HungryLoki]

​@@vibes292 That's strange, why would the population of a conquered territory vote to stay with the conquerors, just because the conquerors killed off/chased away the original population?

[@runajain5773]

​@@HungryLokithey are tiny colony so british it does not englinized the population

[@colanaxis]

@@Valencetheshireman927 I can confirm that I was making a joke. 💜