Why Speedrunners CAN'T Break The Thousand Year Door Remake

[@Abyssoft]

Thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/hellofresh_se7973799, use my code ABYSSOFTJUL10, and receive 10 free meals + free appetizers for life! One appetizer item per box while subscription is active if you’re in the US. The link and code are valid in all countries and the respective local discount will apply.

[@zgiffish]

:(

[@Arisawa_Heavy_Ind]

the ad transition was wild hahaha

[@scantyer]

Slop

[@WackoMcGoose]

I know sponsors are super strict with how you present their logo and branding, but it would have been _wild_ if you had "paperized" that transition, making the lime the PM64 item and making the text appear on sticks like the chapter titles...

[@suroguner]

No offense, but I'm getting tired of all these sponcer segments. With some youtubers thes segments take up too much of the video.

[@Pandefly]

As someone who has worked at a game company, I can tell you that just because something seems like it was purposely made to make something impossible from every angle, it’s entirely possible that it’s just a coincidence. Like the door could be locked on the inside solely because the trigger to unlock the door is set to both sides, defaulting it to be locked from both sides before that trigger is tripped. It doesn’t mean they actually did that on purpose. Game devs accidentally do things that make the game sturdier basically just as much as they accidentally do things that make the game breakable.

[@vyor8837]

On the other hand, the very clearly deliberate blocks on skips exist so...

[@Electrosa]

Isn't Wind Waker's famous fuck-you field a great example of this? It's just your classic invisible wall that stretches way higher than it needs to because it's very easy to make them that way.

[@MTDcreations]

Thank you for saying this

[@WackoMcGoose]

Yeah, the double-sided door lock seems just plain a consequence of the engine change. _Disabling the teleporter_ on the other hand, completely deliberate _fixing of an obvious oversight_ in the previous game.

[@requiemagent3014]

Oh boy you have little to no knowledge about Nintendo. They are notorious for going after speedrunner and trying everything to sabotage them

[@PotatoToon]

The original TTYD was believed to be unbreakable too, i remember when the any% record was 7 hours and you had to do every chapters in order with no skips. It took a long time before a chapter could be skipped.

[@anon4305]

I wonder if glitchless runs are faster because of the reduced backtracking or if the text and menu speed makes up the difference

[@Redpoppy80]

I remember it took over a decade to discover the first major skips.

[@starkeeper_youtube]

@@anon4305 Switch any% is about 2 hours slower than Gamecube glitchless so presumably the answer is yes the slower text and menus make a HUGE impact

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

​@@starkeeper_youtube Battle menus sure, but not the overworld. The remake also has stuff like the tutorial battle about the audience and stage hazards in Petal Meadows and more dialogue

[@KTSpeedruns]

I don't think it would have been as fun if nothing was patched. Two versions of the same game having different things to use for different runs adds variety.

[@SilverRoxas]

yeah most of us felt the same and didnt mind remake being longer.... not 8 hours tho. however like almost 2 hours of that is just from the slower text LUL

[@KobiHameed]

it's kind of like how the original Mario 64 and Mario 64 DS are both very broken but in completely different ways

[@DonutSwordsman]

Cope

[@Adeios96]

I really appreciate the dedication speedrunners take to learn all the ins and outs of a game they love and the techniques they employ to find glitches and exploits that work towards their speedrun, but it is becoming increasingly more noticeable that there are some extremists who actively shame developers or believe a game is worse off simply because the developers fixed an unintended glitch or mechanic in their game. It's thanks to content creators that some speedrun games even fall on my radar or that I learn something new about a game I love, but on the flipside if a content creator speaks critically on a game for fixing glitches, many dedicated fans flock to this concept that fixing issues in a game is problematic and ruins the game and yet we've seen how a poorly optimized or play-tested game can lead to glitches that outright ruin a game's experience. Fallout 76, the first release of Cyberpunk 2077, we can't speak ill of these games for being poorly play-tested or unplayable due to glitches and then talk down a different game for fixing glitches. I won't blame a content creator for the way others may behave, but I do believe it's important to be conscious how a video's marketing warps a viewer's image on speedrunning/glitches/patches/etc. I really wish there was a lot less of "unfortunately the developer's patched this" or "this was fixed for no good reason" and more of "this glitch was patched so NOW we need to do this instead." Less villainizing bug fixes.

[@louiepikmin3184]

I think this game is gonna be absolutely broken, just in its own way. I mean, people already figured out how to do badge duplication (And it actually has a use unlike pm64,) so it's only a matter of time before more broken stuff is discovered

[@RWxAshley]

Quick answer: 2 full decades of QA Testing by the most dedicated players be like that.

[@camwyn256]

The best part of the original teleporter room early is having Flavio follow you around and get into peculiar spots during cinematics

[@dimenzio3612]

Yes it was so fucking funny

[@dustin202]

Someone WILL make a mod for it In due time.

[@SimplyAJ]

As someone working professionally as the Lead QA at a video game publisher, I'll throw my two cents out for anyone interested. First and foremost, I can tell you that when I, personally, am doing QA on games, there have been numerous times where I've found glitches that I would categorize as "Most normal players probably won't ever find this, but it could be fun for speedrunners," and from there, it's entirely up to the devs themselves on if they want to keep the issue or fix it. That being said, it can still be a huge gamble on if it's worth it to leave such glitches in. Sometimes, a glitch might be hard to find, and could be great for speedrunning, but could also potentially softlock a file if players don't follow the steps exactly. Casual players are not speedrunners and the majority just want a game that works. Speedrunning, while still really entertaining, is also EXTREMELY niche in the grand scale of who is playing the game. It's not a good look for a company to leave in glitches that could potentially lead to softlocks or file corruption etc. etc. Secondly, ya gotta remember, QA a job. It's a career path. It's how people make the money to pay their bills. I think it's extremely easy for people to forget that. People who work QA are already put into a position where they take flak from every side. If a game is buggy? Blame QA, because they "didn't find the bugs," even though they probably did, but they just weren't fixed after being reported. If a game DOESN'T have bugs then blame QA because they.... did... their job? At the end of the day, I seriously doubt that the people working at Nintendo did this to "spite" anyone. They certainly weren't fixing issues just to stick it to speedrunners. This last part is just my opinion, and I don't see it changing anytime soon, but still worth mentioning: I think that, while I personally understand there is (usually) no malice in how it's said, when people call these games "incredibly broken" it does come off as a bit insulting to the developers, because ultimately, these games AREN'T "incredibly broken." Yes, TTYD on Gamecube has some wild skips in it, but these are things that took YEARS to find, from a relentless player base constantly looking to do exactly that. For 99.999% of players, none of those glitches and skips were ever found, nor will they ever BE found. The game ran as intended from start to finish, to the point where most people would just assume it was flawless. Looking at the comments here, it's kind of a shame how many people think that game developers are out to get them or fix things just to spite them. I just wish people would have a bit more introspection and empathy towards game developers. Ya know, the people making the things we all love so much, but I digress. Anyway, I still dig the video, and I do personally hope that we see some brand NEW skips in this remake, because I think they're awesome. I just wish that people wouldn't be so antagonist towards developers, and would stop making extremely broad statements like calling these games "completely broken."

[@andeggbreaks]

I thought that when people call speedrun games 'broken', they meant it more as in 'broken open'? I don't think the people using that phrase would describe the game as 'buggy', but rather they mean that the community has found a lot of useful exploits. I appreciate the insight in your comment.

[@Adeios96]

I'm glad you made this point, it helped reaffirm I'm not the only one who's been thinking about this. I do wish some content creators reframed the way they spoke of patches and bugfixes so that they don't come off as villainizing the developers for fixing a game. I fear that level of thinking will only further the divide between passionate speedrunners and the average playerbase. The Pizza Swap Glitch in Elden Ring is a good example from a still relevant game. That glitch absolutely mows down bosses making it excellent for a speedrun, but since there's PvP in Elden Ring that same glitch could be used to ruin another human opponent with no counterplay. It creates a divide where some Speedrunners want the glitch to benefit the speedrun but everyone else wants it gone because it's ruining the experience for the average player. Speaking ill of FromSoft for trying to fix the glitch would only leave the average player to feel negatively towards the concept of speedrunning if a speedrunner would prefer to sacrifice a game's overall health for the sake of a speedrunning technique.

[@SimplyAJ]

@@andeggbreaks That's entirely possible, and I'll admit, could easily be something I overlooked when it comes to referring to the term "broken." Granted that being said, if I took it at face value, then I'm sure plenty of other people have too. I think that's just part of the nuance of language though, as we start using more and more shorthand, unless you were in the know of what the shorthand originally meant, it might take on a whole new meaning haha. I appreciate you letting me know, though!

[@SimplyAJ]

​@@Adeios96 Yeah, I mean I'm not necessarily trying to place blame on anyone for anything in specific, but more or less just explaining how things might be taken or viewed from those on the other side. I think it's pretty easy to have snap reactions of "this should have been this way" or "why didn't they fix THIS instead of THAT" on just about everything, outside of games even, but usually when you dig a little deeper, there's typically SOME sort of reason as to why. I mean hell, we all do it, to come extent haha.

[@fictionalmediabully9830]

​​@@SimplyAJ I once learned at University that being a game tester is an emotionally draining job. Spending hours per day trying to break a game to find anything crucial to address sounds monotonous. Kudos to the testers for pushing through such tedium to ensure a casually bug-free experience, especially those stuck with testing a game that isn't much fun to play. 👍

[@SuperWiiBros08]

I like to think Intelligent System saw the speedruns and thought "let's see how they can handle this"

[@SonicSanctuary]

I think people are being rather too antagonistic with the devs here. Progammers aren't out to get you, they are usually people out to fix problems as they find them.

[@Sniperbear13]

some programmers will actually leave Bugs and such in the game because they know how much the Speedrun community love to use them. the Programmers sometimes do have a way they want people to experience the game too, and sometimes that means stomping out various Bugs and such that can break the game, which can even make parts of the game more or less fun(very much something that changes person to person).

[@DeathByAnvil]

@@Sniperbear13for the second part good for them.

[@timthetoolpool]

God forbid developers try to make a bug free game. Speedrunning has ruined so many peoples' view of games.

[@JosiahBradley]

@@timthetoolpool why are you even watching a speed running KZbin channel lol. Go away.

[@timthetoolpool]

@@JosiahBradley Because, speedrun doesn't have to mean glitch through 90% of the game.

[@dicehead22]

So basically Nintendo did the Opposite thing they did back in OOT 3DS, which is still one of the best ways to legally play that game.

[@Shadowstar1311]

Wait, is there a non-3d OOT? I’ve never heard of one.

[@dave9515]

@@Shadowstar1311 oot3d you know the 3ds version?

[@toumabyakuya]

Because maintaining glitches is not their responsibility.

[@ArmandoDoval]

I'd bet money OoT 3D is emulated, just with hacks for better models and textures.

[@stigmaoftherose]

​@ArmandoDoval it isn't. It even has new glitches that are not in OoT

[@SomeGalNamedEve]

Honestly, I think glitch hunters should be looking into finding new skips. There are probably skips involving things completely new to the remake (like the pipe room under Rogueport) that we just haven't found yet

[@Xanit]

Wow, the speedrunners had Hello Fresh up their sleeves? That's so wild, I can't believe that Hello Fresh was part of the speedrunning scene of this game. Really great that you added that into your script, very informative.

[@TheRaven7]

It even let them eat different food on different days!

[@varietychan]

I don't think it's unbreakable, it's just broken in its own way

[@ejfiewfeuihefwiuwe]

That is often the case with remakes but of course this is going to be a harder case then the original simply due to the fact that games nowadays have a lot more quality assurance put into them then before the reason old games were so broken was for that very reason lack of Quality Assurance but nowadays most games go through a lot of quality assurance to fix glitches that could break immersion or ruin someone's save file like this one

[@coolperson5479]

@varietychan not to burst your bubble but it's insanely locked down the even re worked Mario's physics data structures. Even if you found some new way to do jump storage or text storage a lot of those flags now get set to clear on loading zone changes their properly binded to changemap evts. It's unlikely the game will have anything relevant they fixed basically everything and timestop was mostly useless anyways the one major glitch it did have.

[@varietychan]

@@coolperson5479 they "fixed" basically everything about the original, but they made mistakes in the process as well as new weird glitches like the early Ch. 4 key

[@Lexi-ro7mk]

​ and you can't forget about the badge multiplication glitch

[@coolperson5479]

@Lexi-ro7mk it has no speedrunning uses and takes a while to setup hence why I never brought it up. Timestop at least had a few second time saves to skip some battles. If some of the best glitch hunters couldn't find anything you know the games locked down. Were talking people who specialized in computer science or infosec. People that know how most code works like the back of their hand. Just based on what's known about this games scripting system while some of the code is reused from the original the devs fixed so many known loopholes to exploit.

[@demfrodegroot7596]

I think they made a good choice only hard patching the teleporter, and not hard patching any of the other skips, only the glitches that allowed you to get to them. The teleporter allows skipping to near the end of the game, meanwhile all the other skips just allow you to skip at most a single area, and the whole no backtracking thing makes it so there's risk reward to various paths, possibly making it so there's not one inherently best path to go down.

[@gubbothehuggo2771]

It's always fun for speedrunning when a game gets a remake/remaster because it's like getting a new puzzle for old technique. Players get to use their existing knowledge for a new challenge. And the old challenge is always still there. It's a win-win imo. Metroid Prime Remastered, Wind Waker HD, Mario RPG Remake, these are all great new speedgames with alternate routes.

[@jdudbdjxb7687]

9:07 I could'e sworn there was a plate you could ground pound on at the end of the path near the toad

[@SilverRoxas]

its not close enough to the cheep cheep. those kinds of jump storages activate instantly

[@fawfulthegreat64]

@@SilverRoxas what if you used it to get on top of the train, I know the train has actual collision on its roof in the remake and maybe you can jump far enough off the front of it. Or get on top of the save block and do a frame perfect jump from there. Probably not, just spitballing ideas in case they haven't been tested.

[@SilverRoxas]

Oh also on July 9th right before this video released Nintendo Patched TTYD Remake to ver 1.0.1 which removed blue key early and patched the mowz text storage/timestop glitches among fixing other softlocks. Thanks for that Nintendo!

[@rontheauraknight9606]

Yeah I was wondering what that changed

[@Bowser6495]

"Oh no I can't break the game" But in all seriousness you probably should have seen that coming in all honesty

[@XiremaXesirin]

Those two are not surprising to me. The Ms Mowz text storage could cause the game to hard-crash back to the OS, and the Early Blue Key glitch could result in broken, soft-locked save files. They might have had interesting sequence break potential, but they're way too dangerous to leave in the game.

[@rontheauraknight9606]

@@XiremaXesirin yeah if you want to see both of those in action fatguy703 who is an mostly paper Mario KZbinr showed them off both how you can fully softlock yourself with the key and the mowz glitch causing an crash

[@InsulinRunner]

Man, speedrunning new games must be a nightmare with these patches that thwart all your time and hard work spent.

[@Bladius_]

I see the people of the comments don't subscribe to "limitations breed creativity". The run being forced to diverge from the original is cool, hopefully we end up with a run that looks fairly different with it's own tech.

[@egbertmilton4003]

Yeah, just sounds like more time needs to be put into the game before more glitches are discovered. This is isn’t even anything special. Of course Nintendo would want less bugs in the game. Most companies want less buggy games to show the public.

[@maskettaman1488]

A speedrunning scene does more good for a game than some obscure bug does harm.

[@egbertmilton4003]

@@maskettaman1488 Seeing how niche speedrunning is, it’s a negligible difference to the audience. There are many more challenges in this game that are more interesting and alluring than speed running. It’s sad seeing people whine about an easy speed run not being available.

[@maskettaman1488]

@@egbertmilton4003 Speedrunning is far from niche... how out of the loop are you? SGDQ, a speed running event, just finished and raised over 2 million dollars for charity from fans. Hundreds of thousands of people tune in to it. Speedrunning is also one of the most popular activities on Twitch and KZbin livestreams. Maybe you're stuck in the year 2000 lol You can make a livelihood on youtube just TALKING about speedrunning. That's the complete opposite of niche.

[@notmelenda]

​@egbertmilton4003 speedrunners have already beaten the in game challenges a million times over

[@goose_clues]

@@maskettaman1488この自分が正しいと思ってる西洋仕草、良い感じだで

[@tophunter4865]

I appreciate the length of the video

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

Glad to see Nintendo and IS care enough about the game to give us a cleaner experience, but I have no doubt new skips will be found over the next few years. Just gonna take the same sort of innovative thinking that found the original skips.

[@P.H691]

Nintendo might not like it though. Future patches might patch any glitches or exploits speed runners use

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

@@P.H691 If they do, then c'est la vie. It's their right to make sure they provide the highest quality game they can, and catering to a tiny percentage of the gaming population is not the best way to generate a positive company image. Granted, it's better than catering to a tiny percentage of the world population that will never buy your games anyway, but that's a different conversation anyway...

[@ProjectionProjects2.7182]

@@shinigamimiroku3723 But why though? Why bother patching glitches that no one would see in normal gameplay anyway? Im not sure if patching fun glitches "improves the quality".

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

@@ProjectionProjects2.7182 Can you guarantee that "no one would ever see them in normal gameplay?" Personally, I'd like to think I'd be rather salty getting stuck in a dead zone without a way to get myself unstuck just because I happened to hit a wall at a specific angle, or perhaps bypassed a loading zone without even knowing how it happened (this has happened to me before - not in TTYD specifically, but in another RPG). See, speedrunners are looking for such things specifically because they have the necessary patience to look beyond, but glitches and the like are not always found by them (the tower skip in MGS1 comes to mind immediately, which thankfully for the player didn't result in a softlock).

[@ProjectionProjects2.7182]

​@@shinigamimiroku3723 Well it depends on the glitch in question. Not al glitches result in soft locks and many in a lot of games can be difficult and precise to pull off making it impossible for a player to just accidentally do it. It would be better to look at each glitch on a case by case bases and determine which ones are most likely to hurt the player and which ones are least likely. There is no way that EVERY glitch they patched was likely for the player to stumble across by complete accident and can soft lock the player. I imagine that many of the glitches patched were pretty harmless. My point is that not glitches are equal and some are just fun and best left alone.

[@TonyOstrich]

I'm confused. How does the Hello Fresh subscription activate the skip? Is there some kind of integration in the console it leverages?

[@Allen1350]

I just wish somebody could find a way to bring back the Flavio glitch. 😂

[@vernanonix]

Is it bad that I kind of root for the devs on this? Like, to make such a tightly coded game that it's impossible to skip major portions?

[@aliasella488]

Why in the world would that be bad? It's incredibly commendable!

[@vernanonix]

@@aliasella488 Because it makes speedrunners’ lives difficult lol

[@aliasella488]

​@@vernanonix More challenge then

[@devilspoo3682]

​@@vernanonixtell them to enjoy the damn game instead

[@PomMoei]

​@@devilspoo3682 I'd imagine that if people are spending hundreds of hours trying to find a new way to play the game, they'd enjoy it pretty decently.

[@Belladonna-x2c]

They said the same thing about Wind Waker back in the day, give them time to work.

[@Bartholomule01]

I wonder if when they remake games do they look at documented glitches in speedruns and stuff and specifically try to make all tnose glitches go away.

[@Gwynhyvr]

can't vouch for remakes, but i have heard of some games (specifics evade me) that were patched exclusively to prevent speedrunning tricks and glitches, and people stopped running/playing them in more than a few cases. even if Ninten patches HD to oblivion and back... we still have the OG and Dolphin!

[@LunaticJ]

TTYD HD may not be as broken as the original (yet), but everyone can agree Goombella is the best!

[@Orionhart]

I'm a game dev and have a lot of friends in QA. I'm glad they're fixing bugs and glitches. I get that it can be interesting for speedrunners to discover and exploit glitches, but that shouldn't mean the devs can't improve their game's general experience for your average player.

[@tobyzilla]

But at the end of the day the average player wouldn't even use any of these glitches

[@andeggbreaks]

@@tobyzilla if a speedrunner can do it on purpose a casual can find it by accident

[@johntauren]

Ms Mowz has some form of text storage glitch now but the game crashes if you pick up any item. Fatguy703 has a small video about messing around with it. There's probably not much for real major speedrunning skips though.

[@AWMonopolyMan]

I also think Nintendo patched it out as well

[@kennyholmes5196]

This remake made me look back at the series... and then I realized that they'd always been papercraft the entire time, or at least since Thousand Year Door. I was just fooled into thinking otherwise because of the artstyle. But when you look at the dragons, the truth reveals itself.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

Cortez too, and every main Chapter Boss in Super Paper Mario.

[@Yamartim]

Something you always do on videos and I think its kinda presumptuous to assume stuff like "the evil devs did something just to stop the speedrunners!" but no its just most likely that the game was better programmed for the sake of optimization and allow for the better visuals, I doubt they cared about leaving skips in or out as you can see by the palace loading zone still being there when it could be easily removed

[@SonicSanctuary]

@@Yamartim see this is what I was saying

[@theblackgamer8103]

If cutting the frame rate in half is "better programming" then sure

[@Yamartim]

@@theblackgamer8103 better programming is not only about improving framerate smartass

[@Yamartim]

@@theblackgamer8103 better programming is not just about framerates, try coding something that looks half as good as ttyd does on the switch and runs at even 30fps and then come back to tell me if it was easy

[@aliasella488]

Not all bugs are useful either, take that infamous late game softlock in The Origami King as an example.

[@QuarioQuario54321]

I’d expect that as a remake built from nothing basically all glitches would have been patched

[@torchrandom9059]

We broke it once we can break it again

[@OmegaVideoGameGod]

The issue is nobody has found too many glitches yet 😂

[@UltraNintendoChalmers64]

6:45 Carbon, collector of Keys

[@Alternees]

Me at the start: "Neat! They patched a glitch which is used a lot in speedruns. I a certain sense, it's a sign that they know and care for the game" Me at the end: "Damn they were feeling petty during development"

[@toumabyakuya]

I mean, is Nintendo truly responsible for maintaining in glitches that speedrunners use when making remakes?.

[@maskettaman1488]

@@toumabyakuya No, but it's clear they went out of their way to shut down this specific subset of players. It's how they handle all of their games.

[@toumabyakuya]

@@maskettaman1488 Because, the less glitches a game has, the best it will be in the eyes of the casuals.

[@maskettaman1488]

@@toumabyakuya So you're saying that people dislike games like OOT now because of the crazy glitches that people figured out? Gotta say I think you're totally wrong. Games that have been broken wide open are some of the most popular. No one is genuinely out there saying a game like OOT is now bad because people figured out that's possible to skip a barrier with enough frame perfect inputs lmao

[@toumabyakuya]

@@maskettaman1488 That's not what I said. I did say "in the eyes of the casuals", what casual is gonna care that a teleport-skip was patched?. Also, they are only that popular when they are broken too much. Thousand Years Door doesn't meet that requirement.

[@Gwynhyvr]

if speedrunners and speedrunning have taught me anything; 1. physical is always 1.0 2. we'll always have originals and emulation

[@sultan_3864]

Or js dont have auto update on. Doesnt matter if you have a physical or digital.

[@gamingwithahandicapreviews]

Just don’t have auto updates on. Now I always support physical even if I buy a second digital copy for convenience

[@PlatinumLucario]

Awesome! Jump storage is still in there, meaning prologue pit of 100 trials is possible. Did I read that correctly?

[@CrossingCrafts]

I think you've managed to make one of the best thumbnails in this genre, 10/10 keep it up

[@Abyssoft]

Hot Cyder does my thumbnails, I just send mock ups and he brings them to life

[@vgm6025]

Kinda reminds of TEVI on Story Mode. That game is so tightly locked down that if you try to do anything remotely out of order, bosses and cutscenes will refuse to work, even to the game's detriment and has already caused known softlocks because of it. A boss in Chapter 7 in that game could be skipped by accident, but because every boss and cutscene has pre-reqs usually referencing the previous event (intentionally), it'd break and lock you in the boss room with no way out. Even if you did bypass that, a boss later in the game references every single boss before it and refuses to spawn, intentionally making the final area of the game very buggy and preventing the final bosses from spawning because they also reference this boss that checks everything before it. This is in a metroidvania for some reason.

[@tim.martin]

Taking a moment to say love your channel dude. Abyssoft Z!

[@lemomannmusicproductions4074]

I actually like this. The same game, but will require wildly different strategies by speedrunners. Maybe even new skips undiscovered or simply unnecessary in the original

[@Mathman2028]

This is just my opinion as someone who doesn't speedrun, but I really don't understand how Nintendo patching glitches hurts speedrunners. Sure, it increases the time needed to beat the game, but that doesn't mean anything in a vacuum. If the fun of speedrunning comes from finding new methods and optimizing those methods, shouldn't it not matter if old glitches get patched? After all, once the glitch is found and optimized, it stops being interesting. Fixing glitches opens more room for new exploits to be discovered, which I feel makes it more fun anyway. To be a good game for speedrunning, a game should have a high skill ceiling-not just be short or easy to break.

[@tobyzilla]

Not really it gets frustrating for speedruners and I'm not really a speedruner but I like the idea of speedruns

[@life-destiny1196]

It kinda depends on what's being skipped or removed. I say this as an observer of speedruns who hasn't really had an excuse to participate yet. Say your platforming game has a long autoscroller in it. Speedrunners and/or other glitch hunter types discover a way to bypass the autoscroller, perhaps by using some technique to break out of bounds. Ten years later, you're working on a remake for said game for newer hardware. Here's the decision you have to make: If you leave that OOB in the game, it may have applications in other levels that could have dire consequences. A casual player might discover the technique, possibly even by accident, only to encounter story content out of order, or softlock, or ruin their save file. It'd be better for the mainstream audience if they couldn't accidentally run into something like that. If you patch that OOB, however, the players now have to play through the long autoscroller. To be entirely honest with yourself, it wasn't your most inspired level, and you only really did it that way to either pad the play time or avert some other technical issue. Having it in the game might make replays frustrating--which is extra relevant since some percentage of players of the remake have already played the level in the original game. Leaving the OOB in creates something cool for people to talk about when the game releases, driving engagement. Patching it leads to frustration from players, who now feel that the remake is worse than the original for forcing you through the annoying long autoscroller level. If you instead make more drastic changes to the level, like speeding up the autoscroller or redesigning the level entirely so it doesn't need to be one, you are arguably not really faithfully adapting the game. More importantly, doing that takes development resources. Games take a lot of time and money to make, and it has to be spent wisely. Maybe reworking that level comes at the cost of a cool boss rush mode you were gonna add, something like that. IDK, I'm not really privy to the specifics here. In general, being able to skip parts of the game that are relatively uninteresting on repeat playthroughs is a good thing--stuff like cutscenes and autoscrollers. It may even create new challenges for your more diehard fans (see the SGDQ 2024 run of Destiny, where a six-player raid was run by a solo player). On the other hand, that can't come at the cost of the quality of the game for everyone else. tl;dr, it depends, like most things in life.

[@watercrystals9744]

the thing is, not all speedrunners are glitch hunters and vice versa a lot of games just aren't that fun to speedrun if you're basically just doing a casual playthrough at a brisk pace, and rpgs are notoriously long games which makes them pretty unfriendly to speedrun in general because finding the time to sit down and play for 5+ hours just isn't that realistic given that most people have full time commitments like higher levels of education or employment, so these games inevitably have smaller communities glitch hunting is a really tedious and time consuming process and there's a much higher likelihood nothing you do ever results in anything than actually discovering something, let alone something significant, and it isn't going to help your motivation if there's not that many people even interested in playing the game to begin with

[@Levacque]

Ok I didn't know there was an HD remake and holy cow it's GORGEOUS

[@Salvatawr]

Great video! Would love to see more TTYD content :)

[@GlichCentral]

While i am generally against patching out glitches only used by speedrunners that hurt nobody, the language used by people went talking about glitches as “careless and hilarious blunders”, like the early blue key. I could easily imagine a video 20 years ago (if they existed back then) calling the fact that the teleporter is fully accessible if you can get through a major blunder or similar. Its an interesting perspective on these sorts of things, i think.

[@mageius]

I wonder how the game handles using the home menu for buffering. Most likely, it contains to run in the background, but sometimes games will keep going through some scenes so something might be possible there. Although most likely it won't help, but I think thinking outside the box is probably what's going to happen here to find something.

[@AtomSquirrel]

Man I wish stryder would come back from the dead and do some hunting around

[@bwink4709]

miss his content... but theres a reason hes offline

[@AtomSquirrel]

@@bwink4709 yeah some drama with an ex that he won an argument against. There was also something else in discord about an anorexia problem. We don’t know what he looks like, so idk how true that one is. Anyway, it’d be nice to see his return to play the new TTYD, but who knows if he is even alive. Just how things go I guess

[@fgfhjfhjfbhfghf5771]

​@@bwink4709context?

[@bwink4709]

@@fgfhjfhjfbhfghf5771 comment above is the context

[@Zeik188]

It’ll take time, but I’m sure they’ll find a way to do these glitches eventually. Maybe even better ones.

[@ElleTGC]

I tried doing the Flavio glitch in the remake and was dissapointed that they patched it

[@justinlast2lastharder749]

The only Speedrunning I have ever tried is Kotor as a kid when it came out. They were one of the first to have your Time to Beat prominently in your Save. I started trying to beat it faster and faster. Nothing really caught my attention to want to try other than Halo back when it was new also. 34 feels like being an old man at times.

[@Godspeeds]

3:25 "why they this no body knows" obviously because they don't want you to break the game :face-blue-covering-eyes:

[@hjewkes]

Inevitably a video like this means we’re going to have some insane break in the next 3 months

[@R0B0Gamer]

3:43 What method did you use to get to the blimp there or was it just the spring jump storage?

[@JoelTheParrot]

0:17 Oh, it does? I thought it was made from the ground up 0:31 ah, SOME parts, interesting...

[@camwyn256]

Ah. I finally realized where I know that song from. Starts at 1:07. If I'm not mistaken, that's from Steamworld Dig 2. The town theme, I think.

[@Abyssoft]

Original track by novadrome

[@camwyn256]

​@Abyssoft that's cool. Totally dig it and Steamworld Dig 2, so it making me think of that wonderful game is a good thing

[@SilverwindWorkshop]

Every time you make the video 13:37 long, I see what you're doing there lol Seriously though, another great video!

[@Abyssoft]

100% a coincidence, I didn't realize it until you mentioned it.

[@zZixAxX]

Just pointing out, Eppe wasn’t the one who found out you can clip through floor panel with yoshi it was actually Glitchy//, and Sirius isn’t the one who found the yoshi clip in front of deepdown depot I did :)

[@mackie219]

That blue key glitch is so obvious and it makes it so funny it does not unload. I wonder if its patched in eShop updates

[@quadrilaturalSamurai]

I think the biggest loss was the Flavio glitch. But the tradeoff was the new fast travel room so it's almost worth it.

[@Ferny1415]

Lmao!!!! This is wonderful, its like 7 years worth of glitches found in just one month!

[@suitcaseofsmarts]

Well this is a remake so there’s 20 years of QA testing by people with too much free time

[@superbaas8822]

For those who are completely "Glitches and Skips shouldn't be allowed in a speedrun! The game should be played as the developers intended!" This is why categories exist. So people can have their own spectacle. The reason nobody is running these skipless categories is they aren't fun. Usually lots of padding and drawn out content that you've seen for the 8000th time that just means if you make a mistake and a run is set back to unrecoverable it's ANOTHER 10, 30, 180, etc minutes you had to sit through without anything you could have done about it. You're welcome to run glitchless/skipless yourself, but there's a reason you don't and it's the same reason nobody else does. Nobody has time for that.

[@KaratekidSMW]

What's the music at 10:49?

[@mariokarter13]

20 years of speedrunners breaking the game in the exact same way told them exactly what they needed to hardcode out. If there is a skip, it's gonna be something that either wasn't in the original, or wasn't yet discovered in the original.

[@heitorsant1759]

AIM YOUR CONTROLLER YOU CANNOT BREAK US EVEN WITH YOUR TOOL ASSISTANTS? YOU CANNOT BREAK US DISCOVER NEW WORLD RECORDS YOU CANNOT BREAK US WE ARE NINTENDO. YOU CANNOT BREAK US

[@PurgingLight69]

YET. Cannot break it YET. Some games have taken decades to break.

[@Fender178]

ROFL @ blue key glitch. That was indeed funny.

[@AdaTheWatcher]

I don't know if it's in the video but, ultrahammer early has been found.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

Not in the prologue

[@grandmastermario3695]

Im glad i beat soul caliber 2 blindfolded in under 1 minute in IGT

[@bbwblk]

this guy cant stop getting sponsored by shady companies 😂

[@RUCER3Al]

That blue key glitch is wild.

[@Supernuclear64]

Vivian smash or pass 🤑🤑🤑

[@elimann9989]

God I just finished this game its so good

[@AidanDaGreat]

I know right

[@tobyzilla]

But you know it runs at 30 fps while the original ran at 60

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

​@@tobyzilla Why should they care? Get over yourself.

[@meowmix_tv]

this is gonna be like twwhd all over again. it's gonna get broken sooner or later

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

Oddly enough, many glitches from the original(Super Swim, Helmaroc Skip, Barrier Skip, bomb clip out of bounds, etc.) are still in HD, with the Item Slide being new, but storage and memory overload are gone. You also can't super swim fast enough to go past the water actor of the Great Sea and void out. Molgera also has a different speedrun fighting method.

[@TheGreatVoicemancer]

It would be extremely funny if Nintendo patched the glitches out

[@Abyssoft]

The day this video went up they released a patch and fixed blue key early

[@TheGreatVoicemancer]

@@Abyssoft oh my fucking god that's amazing.

[@dropdmike75]

Ok so I haven't watched the whole video cause I wanted to get this out as soon as I thought of it: didn't people find badge duplication within a few weeks? And the game isn't too old yet, there's still chances to find skips, right?

[@17Master]

Gotta cash in on riling up the masses and vilifying Nintendo BEFORE too much new tech is discovered

[@mattiasasplund8369]

13:37 nice

[@devilspoo3682]

Pretty good game design I must say.

[@stevemercier6691]

I think we've seen enough games in our lives that we can't say this game is unbreakable. It could be something we haven't discovered in the Original that could apply in the remake ans vice-versa. Who knows. The game is still young. Let it cook. 👍

[@Superboologan1]

What happened to the nintendo that kept fun glitches in oot 3d to maintain the community factor of showing your friends cool tricks?

[@conner9842]

This game looks great, I might play it

[@GlenBeebe]

Quality as always

[@grandmastermario3695]

I beat 6 different fighting games blindfolded

[@elviraplomp479]

0:55 a user named Solidifiedgaming has made a video of a credit warp run, and altough not it's humanly possible, the original game can be beaten in like 22 minuten

[@benjaminjameskreger]

Give them a minute, damn.. they had over a decade to play around with the original.

[@UWG1411]

Give it time

[@wiicow]

I wonder how many bugs were. result of running on 32bit cpu vs 64bit

[@kingnightmarevin]

They uh.... they found badge duplication

[@ejfiewfeuihefwiuwe]

Might not be useful for speedrunning though aside from killing enemies much quicker then intended

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

It's not a glitch, it's an intended function. It still works on the newest patch.

[@TuRkEyBlo0d]

The time on this video is "leet" 1337!

[@cosmicspacething3474]

...YET.

[@FriendlyAC130Online]

Do yall remember stryder7x tho? Miss that guy

[@FanstasiaAlchemist]

Alw0 mentioned 🥰🥰🥰

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

Oh wow!!!!!

[@CesarTorres61296]

It's Legends Arceus all over again!

[@hiuyanso-j4f]

0:30 I noticed the Chinese word

[@dukemagus]

Sequel Ruined: not enough bugs

[@RagingAbout]

8 hours! Seems like i beat it faster than that

[@jeffsantos93]

Why do devs get rid of speedrunning skips? It's not like people will normally find them... Just to screw with speedrunners?

[@androwaydie4081]

Ask Nintendo Q&A.

[@LocalAitch]

Nintendo has a hard-on for "intended" gameplay. See: removing BLJs from SM64, Mario Maker 1 and 2 level removals and patches

[@braedenhaynes6935]

“Looks like theres a small group of our community has find this glitch that takes 5 frame perfect jumps to perform and makes this group feel happy to be a part of the over all community….. let’s patch it!”

[@wjackter]

Because it's a bug, simple as that

[@Zeik188]

If it’s unintentional behavior they see it as a bug and patch it accordingly. They want you to play their game in a very certain way.