Why Star Citizen Players Are Rethinking Their Capital Ship Fleets at IAE 2024

[@soppili]

As long as there is no group bedloging there is not multi-crew gameplay. Most of the big ships have the theme "Stay out there for a long time", which all the "maintain your ship" etc. plays right into. But as for the moment one does always needs to stay close to one of the major cities to allow for people to hop on at each session. Going with some friends and logging off and expecting to continue the other day is a big no-no.

[@proteus1216]

it gets even worse when you account for ships like the Arrastra like i really doubt that the refining jobs would keep going in storage

[@KA317S]

​@proteus1216 No reason they wouldn't. It's not like an actual thing is being refined. It's just a time sink converting an ore to a commodity in an inventory menu.

[@luistigerfox]

Rather than 'group bedlogging', I feel like what we just really need is 'party log-in' onto a party member's ship if they already have one out. Like, the ship owner logs in, and the rest of the party joins on them, waking in the ship's beds rather than their logoff location or a port, wherever it was. Just let party members wake up on your ship when they log in if they choose to do so.

[@felian9562]

Wouldn't all this be another temporary fix, cause cig plans to make log in and out persistent...if you log out at the chair of a Cafe, you would log in just there...

[@FreebirthBoccara]

It takes 10 min to get to any station in the game... your acting like waiting for 20 min for everyone to gather up prevented raiders from groupin gup in any mmo ever created..

[@NomadHorizon]

I think the craziest part of the game is the idea that the more expensive the ships are, often means the bigger they are, and means the more time and crew you will need for those ships. Problem is, the only ones that can afford those ships are working class people, who coincidently dont have time or consistent crew to man those ships. Thats why I think the delay of npc crew is kind of detrimental to a lot of peoples experience. Cause people that have limited time will have to rely more on other people who may also have limited time. In the end you have a bunch of people with big ships and no crew or a lot of people rethinking their fleets, and ultimately meaning less big ships in the verse.

[@Agarwaen06]

@@NomadHorizon this. The effort to coordinate reliable gaming sessions does seem imbalanced for the time available to invest in said sessions. Especially of your buddies are located in very different time zones due to life decisions.

[@leevallery1363]

If you have purchased a large capital ship for the sale of it and haven't considered any of this, more fool you! NPC crews will come for those who have thought this through! My largest ships are the Carrack, Nautilus, Hull C, Perseus & Liberator which are all smaller & sub capital and fairly feasible to operate and maintain solo I feel 😊

[@platiuscyndar9017]

@@leevallery1363 Out of these, before blades at least, only the Hull C is really soloable. Though the Liberator in it's role of mobile base won't really need more then one player, it certainly will if you get in a fight. I for one own a POlaris, intending to run it with a multitude of blades and a small rotating group of players made up by my buddies.

[@HunterSteel29]

@@leevallery1363 Perseus Pilot will only control the ship and the torpedoes, thats it lol

[@janedoe4586]

uff u will buy every ship in game for in-game credits, buying ship for real money is donating money to CIG for development of the game as a gift and don't presents in any ways the value of the ship. A ordinary full time Gamer will probably grin to a Jevlin in 2-3 months of playing by starting with the cheapest starter pack.

[@GROGU123]

I specifically did not buy a Kraken because I dont have enough people to run it. I bought the Liberator instead. All my ships can be run with 1-2 people.

[@FamGamTv]

I made this exact choice. I went Liberator specifically because crew size (as opposed to Kraken, Odyssey, etc) ... and I know it can't repair/refuel/rearm - but I'll deal with that.

[@realnerdethan]

Smart!

[@JerrybigRed]

Liberator is my hope as well, run a prospector, vulture and a buc off it to do solo industry/combat game loops from a mobile base.

[@SubduedRadical]

Same. Most Medium and Large sized ships are flexible, especially the non-combat ones, for anywhere from a solo pilot to a crew of 4-6. Like a Starfarer or Crucible you will probably be able to solo. Liberator is honestly looking to me to be one of the better ships in the game since it can be used for anything from a solo player doing hauling runs and moving their personal ships/vehicles around all the way up to an Escort Carrier role in large fleet operations, and can be used for everything from a mining operation HQ to a support ship in massive fleet battles.

[@Desenrad]

Liberator would save a solo player so much time if they can move their fleet using one ship. Makes me so mad CIG would rather work on new garbage ships to make more money instead of finishing the old backlog.

[@Farrister]

Rethinking? I'm doubling down!

[@301jrod]

Same 😬

[@TheGlassSword]

@@Farrister I expect double sized mustache by end of December

[@AW-po7jr]

Good for you, I am rethinking my fleet

[@XMathiasxX]

I finally decided to get an Orion, Pioneer, Endeavor and Paladin. Im all in now…..and had to go back to stripping to pay for it all

[@raijin2250]

Right! After experiencing large scale multi-crew gameplay, I’m all in on the big ships. It was the most fun I’ve had in this game by FAR! I know what I signed up for tho, so that’s why I have some smaller ships that are more manageable for solo sessions. But yeah in a MMO, the more people the better imo.

[@McKronenberg]

I was never under the impression that you could fly the capital ships by yourself. AI crew and Blades for me where always something that might come but is not THE most important thing. Ive been playing since 2016 and that was clear to me already by the discussions we had then.

[@JoeBissell]

lol, not me flying the polaris by myself lol

[@First_Chapter]

NPC crew were mentioned back in 2013 and it was the line that big ships would be practical to fly solo supported by NPC crew. In fairness, it was also said that NPC crew would be demanding to direct and not 'light touch'. In 2017 CIG suggested that one approach for a Javelin could be for a couple of players, each directing their own NPCs, could collaborate to share workload and costs. By 2020 CIG confirmed NPC crew were still in the works but reaffirmed that they would need managing and that some roles still needed to be completed. Now in 2024 we learn that NPC crew won't be implemented until after 1.0 and with that release looking like 2026 at the earliest that will be 13 years+ after the feature was unveiled. Too long.

[@SubduedRadical]

Right? I think it was always obvious that you would need - or at least WANT - some other players with you on multicrew ships larger than about 4 people. That is, anything larger than a Connie. Outside of some special cases, like the Starfarer (where you're still functional solo, just less efficient than you might be with a crew), or industrial ships (where you can park the ship and then swap between stations to do tasks - less efficient than with a crew, but still getting the ship's main profession done), that you'd ideally want players. Blades for Turrets is really the only kind-of exception, since that's already tech in the game (NPC ships literally have NPC/"AI" running the turrets), and would only cover gun slots. Which is still very useful, since that's what most of the Medium and Large size ship extra crew would be doing, manning turrets. Like the Cutty Black or the back seat turret of the Gladiator. But not Capital ships or the bigger Large size ships (the Connie, at this point in the game's life, is practically a Medium! People don't realize how much size inflation we've had over the years with this game sometimes...) People were just lying to themselves otherwise.

[@chloekaftan]

i was wary about this system since a year ago and held myself back on wanting to get the RSI Polaris back when it was cheaper (650/675 mark) and while i regret not grabbing it while it was cheap, i dont think i can crew a ship that needs at least 10 people to be minimally operational especially considering i cant man any of the turrets without an AI crew (or god forbid a player crew), what worries me isnt the engineering gameplay, what worries me is the fact that i cant bring my ships to peak combat efficiency. The Polaris needs 10 people just to be minimally operational in that regard, and at least 28 people to be fully operational. meanwhile my current pledge the RSI Perseus while being so much smaller than my Carrack or Hammerhead (much less a Polaris) can still be minimally operational with 4 to 6 people, i can crew it with my brother + 2 friends, so im not too worried as it is now, but if i melted the Perseus for the Polaris i would have made a grave mistake. See the real problem here? we dont need the Blades system for engineering gameplay, we need it to man the turrets that aren't pilot controlled. i dont want to re-enact what happened to the IJN Shinano in WW2 in Star Citizen just because im unable to crew my ship properly.

[@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773]

@@First_Chapter honestly even in 2013. I believed the NPC crew was hogwash. Back then adaptive AI was not even looked at. Still think it's complete bs. Capitol ships should not be soloable. You should be required to have a crew.

[@paratrooperz1]

i think the fire feature is a mistake and lacking a great deal of realism.... as someone who used to build ships and someone who used to serve on ships as first responder/quick reaction force. i was one of many sailors who were trained for fire very heavily!!!! realism is most materials on a ship have a level of fire resistance such as metal or other resistant materials.... we had very few extinguishers meant for paper fires we had hoses all over that can suck water from ballast to fire but heres the main factor the biggest tool in the shed!!!! we had this automated system often Called HALON or it counter parts that can sense heat or fire and it is a foam that not only smothers fire instantly but sucks the oxygen out of the room and the doors have a level of automation where they can seal so we dont kill sailors with the HALON.... HALON makes fires nearly impossible and us trained sailors would only ever see a fire if the HALON system had failures as it has redundancy making it even more rare!!!! now we take into account this is 900 years in future!!! your telling me in space where fires can be more of a threat to crew or in vacuum where fire cant exist some how is in a game??? no!!!! its not realistic at all!!! even with a act of god it would still be mitigated do to safety regulations

[@aguy446]

They said we'll be able to simply isolate a compartment and vent the oxygen. Fire isn't going to be a big deal

[@DRAKENE]

And in submarines they lower oxygen level to avoid fires and have Co2 dispensers because all the crew is equipped with gas masks they carry arround 24/7. If fire mechanic is implemented people will just vacuum the ships to avoid fire. That's a stupid feature creep mechanic for the sack of feature creap !

[@Rhapses]

@@DRAKENE Totally agree. I already run around in a suit since landing in most places outside of stations means no oxygen. So, turning off life support in a ship just makes sense, and gives you energy to spend elsewhere too!

[@Dracounguis]

The only problem is there are already NPC crew members. Every bad guy hammerhead you fight has a full crew. People can board a bad guy hammerhead, kill the pilot then fly the ship and the AI crew will 'obey' their commands. So it's not like CIG doesn't have any technology to give us NPC crew.

[@PlayerSlotAvailable]

It is wild that CIG is willing to give us the most underwhelming, first itteration versions of systems like Mining, Medical, Bounty Hunting, Salvaging, etc, but the NPC crews we have in the game isnt up to the required standards to put them in the hands of players...

[@ZuilzonDTD]

You've got a fundamental misunderstanding of what NPC crews are supposed to be. NPC Crews are supposed to be player directed crew that will be able to perform complex actions, NPCs sitting in turrets are functionally no different from what the role of an AI Blade would do which is something we are getting. So we are getting that level of AI crew, in blades, because that's all that actually exists presently.

[@BlackThanator]

@@ZuilzonDTD You are both correct and incorrect. Yes, so far we've only seen NPC gunners which aren't much different from AI blades compared to what the NPC crew is eventually supposed to do... *However* This is just as much proof that CIG could have given us AI operated turrets years ago and simply chose not to. With how little there has been to do aboard a multicrew ship besides gunnery up to this point, this functionality would have fully sufficed.

[@demonicsquid7217]

The 'blades' we were vaguely promised all those years are already in the game. But we aren't allowed to use them for 'reasons'.

[@zillamill]

And if that was the AI crew CIG officially released i would lose my marbles and get a refund

[@Gary_The_Metro]

I think my biggest problem with multicrew in ships like the polaris is... Meaningless multicrew aspects that are thrown in for the mere sake of having an extra seat. Namely, the torpedo seat.. If a seat can be replaced with a single keybind, it shouldn't exist. I am fine with the torpedo not being fireable by the pilot, but at least set it to the co-pilot. Or make it so that there are redundant possibilities of firing the torps. Not have someone who just needs to sit in a chair to press one button. It's the same BS as what we had with the antares. It adds little to nothing to gameplay, and it's just... not fun for whoever needs to man that seat. It's important that whoever needs to man a seat, is actually having fun too.

[@Wha73v3r]

Speak for yourself we had fun flying the Polaris and even our men at the torpedos didn’t complain at all 🤷‍♂️ It’s always a „you“ thing. What’s „fun“ and what’s not it’s subjective. Oh and it’s also a question of balance and if that means you need to have an additional crew member that ist „just pressing on button“ then this is a good thing. You know why? Just switch seats from time to time so other people can do other things.

[@bighit20100]

@@Wha73v3r I agree with the OP. Because you had fun, doesn’t mean the majority of people will. Mind you, right now people love to be on the Polaris because it’s big, new and expensive, being the first player capital ship in-game, people are excited. But once that wears off, people would hate to sit in seats where they just have a single task to press a single button… Multi-crew just for the sake of it, is a bad user experience approach…

[@nuclearsimian3281]

The devs disagree with you. You don't fire torpedoes on a submarine in the US Navy from the conning station or the periscope, you fire them from the torpedo stations.

[@bighit20100]

@@nuclearsimian3281 But the devs are not making the game for themselves, but for 4.4 million backers... If you going to be this @nal about realism then imagine going 900 years in the future and still needing a human to solely operate launching a torpedo on a highly sophisticated WAR ship... Not everyone wants to play a mil-sim in space and not everyone has the luxury of wasting hours on end every day on a torpedo station... There should be a balance between realism and "fun to play". Having a torpedo station is fine, but it should NOT be the only way to launch those things.

[@idminister]

@@nuclearsimian3281 you also dont fly interstellar spaceships in the navy you dont use ships capable of transit between star systems, or ships capable of entering and exiting planet's atmo. Nor have naval ships always had torpedoes, they are a technology, technology changes. The torpedoes of the future should be easier and less cumbersome to command, or R&D is doing it wrong. And IRL the UvR war is showing the future power of UUVs.

[@Rummyson]

Captial Class ships were always going to be more for Organizations than solo players. I have known this since the beginning lol

[@narosushi]

so.. they said year after year everyone could get NPC for the ships

[@helloitsjay38]

​@@narosushiit's still in the works! But definitely a ways out.

[@Monarch_GNSG]

@@narosushi those NPCs were meant to be hard to manage, they told us that you could run a javelin with at least 5 people each acting as an "officer" commanding their own npc squad.

[@bigbuna]

No need of a big brain to understand that npc won’t come early in the development. just find ppl to play with its nonesense to have a javelin and 1 human in the middle of npc

[@dgc2540]

Yes but even orgs expected to use NPCs for some of the more mundane tasks on a capital ship. So now in org chat you will see things like who wants to do x task for 10 min out of this 2 hr mission and watch Netflix the rest of the time?

[@UpperKS]

How can we NOT have ships made for groups of people? Seems kinda necessary for at least some of them to focus on that.

[@ForFSakes13]

I think any ship should be crewed by 1-(shipmax). From one player up.....

[@ForFSakes13]

I'm not saying I need to even use ai or blades. Give me two size 3s on my polaris and i'd be happy

[@InterstellarTaco]

That's PVE players for you.

[@LarsHoppa]

I bought in during 3.15 for two reasons, NPC shipmates and the promised economy. ISC and SCL were bragging up NPC AI. CIG was getting NPCs to navigate between surface meshes and ship meshes. The OG documentation talked about progression with your NPCs. All 4 of my pledges are starter packs. It's not just about having an NPC gunner, they talked about gameplay. It's gone, probably for good. Don't even feel optimistic that they will get passenger gameplay back in which requires NPC. And if I had to bet, bounty hunter 2.0 is gone or gutted because that requires NPC. It is evident in both their communication and events testing that end game raiding is their priority. The promised economy is also gutted.

[@adrianslater9127]

They should have prioritized the artificial intelligence NPC crew and blades if they wanted to continue big ship sales to the same scale as before. I think the NPC crew and AI blade would actually contribute to the game as both could progress over time as they gain experience and would be reset to the bassline upon destruction of the ship That would also push the drive to have ships repaired rather than destroyed and claimed repeatedly. Having your NPC crew drop from 90% efficiency to 60% would be a significant penalty. I just noticed that was my post in the video....

[@Aesir247]

@@adrianslater9127 I love this idea! Makes it easier for us solo players to fly big ships (cus we all love them) but it's also a solid reason to not just throw it away at a whim. Have a random internet persons cred!

[@JonCampo91]

No money in that. Jpegs and the occasional half finished ship is what keeps fuel in the yacht.

[@hawk2086]

I don't think NPCs and AI are going to be anything that people have in their heads. I don't believe NPCs will be anything but bodies in a turret. I don't believe they will ever be able to help with engineering or any other systems besides maybe adjusting power levels automatically.

[@TPWR1337]

I wouldn't want NPC crew. Maybe an engineer but not combat. Capital ships should be used sparingly. Where do we draw a line. We could make it to a strategy game where 2 players could fight with 2 fleets. Its an mmo you should interact with others.

[@ODSTGeneralYT]

@@TPWR1337 Except right now it is barely an MMO and lacks good in game organizational tools for managing large groups. And even in smaller ships I personally can see the value of AI crew, I fly a constellation and while I currently find it a very capable craft during solo flights, it would be nice to have some extra firepower from the turrets or in an incredibly ideal world an AI controlled snub fighter. Something to help fill the gaps when friends aren't available or I don't want to play with a random person for some reason. And as the game starts to penalize players for death and have some longevity in terms of players grinding their characters up over time without having to worry about wipes. I think we will find players are going to be a lot less willing to jump on the ship of some random guy they don't know, who might lead them to a crime stat or get them killed by slamming into an asteroid or something. And when we start actually having that persistence where you are not storing your ship at the end of every session, and we see people parking ships planetside or just in the void of space where they bed logged. It would be nice to potentially have AI crew to help potentially defend the ship while the human crew is offline. My point is, AI crews stand to benefit a lot more than just the biggest capital ships.

[@micheljavert5923]

Years and years ago, when CiG unveiled the exploration Connie (the Connie in general, being honest), I said to myself: That’s my ship. Only thing they’ve ever released that caught my eye in a meaningful way. I wanted to take her out and get lost amongst the stars. Years later, I may or may not be able to fly her as I imagined/was promised. And even if I were, “exploration” is going to mean crawling around in dirtside caves looking for “loot” in one of the designated star systems. All operating on an EVE-lite security system. I don’t know what Star Citizen is going to be in the end, and I definitely don’t know if it’ll ever be the thing I imagined it would be. But it’s certainly not the latter right now.

[@AZUL1001]

I can imagine when all this is implemented we will have to put down 3 fires, repair quantom drive 2 times and change 10 fuses to travel from Seraphim to Yela...

[@TalosEscanor]

Merchantman without merchant, alien ships without aliens, zero aliens' reputations, and zero NPC for maintenance/cargo and shops inside the ship....Some people say false advertising for 1.0. I agree.

[@tullan1652]

Good points. I think many are just getting so impatient, they are willing to sacrifice pieces.

[@Rgmekanic]

Five systems. Quanta MIA

[@Tyrannus_Gaming]

Capital Ships should have a "restock" button, that fills the Armory with "Basic Gear," to solve the issues with taking hours just to prep for a 10 minute raid.

[@lawrencesounddesign1862]

I don't think there's gonna be many "instant gratification" buttons in this game. Like, ever. Most of the stuff we have now (like click a button and you are rearmed in seconds after landing on a pad) is going to take a heck of a lot longer once the game gets further in to production. Just like with the cargo refactor where you can have the option of manually loading your ship box by box, or pay to have it done for you (with a lengthy timer), or the (sometimes days) it takes to refine minerals at a refinery, you'll see eventually reach out to other aspects. People who want an arcade experience of get in and shoot'em up will have the arena commander stuff. People who want to participate in the MMORPG are going to have to understand that immersion comes at the cost of time; moving yourself, your gear, and so on. Hell rearming the capital ships will be a multi-person thing. Just look at the torpedo reloads on polaris. You can do it yourself, yes, but going to be a lot faster to rearm that ship with some extra hands.

[@wetcat833]

Trying to crew my Polaris for a big battle. Convincing people on line ( who own their own ships)to be available at the right time and then be stuck at an engineering console or loading torpedoes while I'm having fun on the bridge. Chances of that=0.00001 Multi-crew is a pipe dream.

[@Mr_Spock512]

Exactly ... some people haven't thought this through. Everyone wiil want to be Captain Kirk ... and no one will want to be Scotty. With the emphasis on multi-crew ships this game will be DOA.

[@Montross]

@@Mr_Spock512 Captain I'm giving her all she's got!!!

[@aguy446]

The good news is if you don't have an engineer you just go back to not being able to repair like how it is now

[@Tigs2]

One thing that devs often miss. We often play games to ESCAPE the grind of reality. Why would i want to be running around a ship as an engineer changing boxes all the time? I will need to go back to reality to escape the games boring grind. There are certain parts of reality we dont want. I want to be master of the universe not an engineer or medic running round a ship not even able to see the battle we are engaged in.

[@holycaketree]

@@Tigs2 people are playing stuff like supermarket simulator or farming sim. I dont think that is the biggest issue

[@SolarWindsRider]

Imho, CIG should focus more on solo ships and 2-3 player ships. It's the most demanded segment, and such ships can be made 10 times faster than a single capital ship.

[@iwanttodie7199]

as a solo player, don't give them any ideas my dude better we are left alone until they decide to make shit more tedious and boring.

[@AlexeiX1]

They do do this though? How many capital ships have hit the game ever? 1? And in the same year how many 1-4 player ships have added to the game? The problem is not the kind of ship that they focus on, it’s the lack of game content that should go in hand with it. There’s no content for larger ships, when there is people will crew them. Just like we saw with save Stanton, multiple crewed Polaris show up to kill the idris.

[@SolarWindsRider]

@@AlexeiX1 they said themselves that a single capital ship takes the whole team 12-18 month to complete. Why do you think Guardian was not released at IAE? Very likely they couldn't finish it in time because they were rushing Polaris (which was released with missing rooms, bugs and old assets as well). How many small ships they added? They could've implemented 5 small ships from the backlog instead of Polaris.

[@AlexeiX1]

@ lol absolutely not. Guardian is 120% done. They’re just spacing out the sales so people spend more money. They might even have more ships done waiting for better release dates. And yeah that is why we only have 1 capital ship in the game right now and over 100 non capital ships. And their next big ship to come out isn’t even a capital, the Perseus, and it’s supposed to come at the tail end of at least 10 other smaller ships next year. What more do you want?

[@SolarWindsRider]

@@AlexeiX1 I want those 10,000 man hours of designers, 3d artists, developers and QAs spent on 5 other backlog ships instead)

[@TheGlassSword]

Me and my org got together and pooled ships into store credit to get a pioneer together this year. 1.0 changed our perceptions and aspirations we going less combat and more manufacturing

[@FirstBornConservative]

Exactly. Combat ships seem more and more a novelty than aspirational. I melted all of mine. I never even used them. A combat ship isn't going to give you purchasing power like a mining vessle, freighter, salvage, crafting , repairs... maybe just maybe you can sell ship markers eventually.

[@SubduedRadical]

Honestly, I think that makes sense. A lot of people have spent years thinking of Star Citizen as a better Eve Online, but it's a different game. It's not like there will be (probably) player orgs holding massive swaths of space. In reality, most orgs will probably pick a moon/planet/solar system to base out of, and build a small base on one of the bodies there while conducting various non-combat operations like mining, manufacturing, or salvaging, along with support ships. There will probably be some combat happening, but massive deathball fleets like Eve Online will be rare. Even more rare than Eve's. Things like the Liberator, Pioneer, Endeavor, Starfarer, and Crucible will make far more sense than something like a Kraken or Javelin or Idris or even Polaris to most player groups. There will still be combat and those ships will be out there some, but they'll probably be less prevalent than now, with most fighting being between Small and Medium ships against pirates and NPC missions.

[@TheGlassSword]

@ the combination of the release of the Polaris and 1.0 presentation solidified mine and my org’s decision. The Polaris was big enough for our org any bigger we probably would not be able to crew. 2/3 of the members were not as interested in combat. And we wanted to build a base and home instead than knocking things over (unless we have to) I think what CIG did was draw a line in the sand and should have expected this to happen as they redefined the end product and decisions had to be made

[@Okabe_RintaroIF]

@@SubduedRadical Why would anyone ever think SC will be like EVE? Not to mention that EVE players are all massive losers who treat a boring videogame like a full time job

[@MrImmortal709]

Because after over a decade telling us that NPC will be a very important part of the game, basically carry the Economy and outrank us 9 to1 and that NOC crew will be a thing, CIG of course make another switcheroo and shits on earlier stuff they said and now we "might" get NPC crew, the economy will be dogshit as for some reason we now can craft everything and of course in different rarrities so yeah fuck CIG at this point.

[@DRAKENE]

The problem is not that people want to play solo. The problem is MMO ARE games where people are solo players and sometimes groups up for a raid or some group activities, but 90% of the time MMO players do solo activities. Chris and CIG obviously know nothing about MMO because this is a very basic knowledge about MMO. They seem to think people plays like streamers, always with a dedicated crew of fan orbiters, ready to sacrifice time for them and group activities.

[@DeltaPhoenix180]

Its fine that theyre making limitations on larger ships a thing, but they really need to start adding the benefits.

[@xXE4GLEyEXx]

From what I heard the repair/rearm costs of for example the Polaris are absurd compared to how much money can be made with it. Torps and such being very very expensive. And if you take into account that they can glitch, desync or just pop when CIWS gets angry at them. I don't see the upkeep being plausible if payouts don't adjust. Payouts in general are kinda meh to begin with. And we are only in Alpha, I'd recon they will pull back the earnings even more once full release happens. Gonna be a grind fest xd

[@lurakin88]

What, like massive health pools and unmatched firepower?

[@ForFSakes13]

@@xXE4GLEyEXx Going to have to play for a month to earn enough credits just to pull out a big ship and play for a day.

[@ForFSakes13]

@@lurakin88 Gladius vs Polaris = Geo Metro vs Hummer I don't see a problem there.

[@xXE4GLEyEXx]

@@ForFSakes13 or pay for UEC which is already conveniently in the store

[@lurakin88]

Obviously communication isn't CIGs strong suit, but I do wonder why so many people expected to be able to solo these massive ships. I was always aware of the crew requirements which is why I rarely ever go for ships that need more than 3 people. Ships like the Polaris, to me, are meant for Orgs and for that sort of crew play, and I think it really shines when you use it like that. I have a handful of friends I play the game with, and we pretty much organise our fleets with that in mind. Previous Orgs I've been in though had like a dozen players talking about their frigates, corvettes and destroyers and I always wondered how they were thought they were going to man those ships if there are that many in that Org alone.

[@durtyred86]

Think outside of that box a bit. When you guys here solo player, you automatically go to Polaris, Idris, Javalin, Bengals............ Dude. Why???? You do realize there are a plethora of ships far below that category that don't demand 20+ players...right? But to answer your direct question, they think that way because CiG specifically said they would be able to do so. Let me put it simple for you. CiG: Yeaaaa buy those larger ships if you want, you'll be able to manage them with npc's. I mean, they might not be as good as a live crew and they'll cost you, but go ahead. Buy them and we'll make sure you can enjoy them the way you'd like. Solo playerbase: Really?? Ok, guess I'll buy a Connie or Caterpillar here...an M2 there... Heck maybe even a Carrack or Reclaimer even! CiG: Yea! You do that.. And thanks for supporting our dream! Also CiG: Soooooo we're gonna go ahead and add features into the game that make it nearly impossible for you to solo any ship that has components inside of it via engineering... But chill, we haven't forgotten you. Npc's will be a thing come 1.0 😃 Solo playerbase: uugh... What does that leave me to use, and when is 1.0??? CiG: hmm.. pretty much starter ships and single seater fighters..🤔... Oh 1.0 probably won't drop for another 3 years or so..🙃 Solo playerbase: wtf?? So we're just shit out of luck until then? CiG: ughh.. Yea that's about how it shakes out..😅 Solo playerbase: zips up wallet and melts fleet down... IAE does poorly in sales. While there are definitely other aspects to why this years sales weren't record breaking, the impact of Npc's has undoubtedly played a role in that. Believe it or don't.

[@BlackThanator]

@@durtyred86 Couldn't agree more. We were promised ways to run our capital ships without needing other actual humans on board, albeit at somewhat less capability. Which I was perfectly willing to accept, sure a fully human crewed Idris is probably gonna win a fight against mine, but I'll still get to use this ship as my mobile fortress and it'll be good enough for PvE. And then we don't hear anything about AI Blades and NPC crews for years, despite NPC gunners clearly working as evidenced by the pirate Hammerheads you could hijack and have the gunners work for you.

[@thesilver3794]

​​​@@BlackThanatorProbably didnt want to make a system for npcs on player ships and prioritized something different since the servers probably wouldn't be able to handle player ships with npc crew. Even when the new server system comes online, it's still unknown if the new servers can support the amount of npc there are / yet to be (not counting future npc crew). They will likely prioritize pve npcs over player npc crew. If the new server system hit the limit Its gonna be annoying for anyone who bought capital ships for soloing with npcs. It's gonna be another drama that CIG digged themselves or they are gonna gaslight the community and say "it in the works"

[@lurakin88]

@@durtyred86 Why did I use Polaris as an example? because we had plenty of cases of solo Polaris players just last week. I never mentioned any of the other ships so I don't know why you brought those up. Another good example would be the Reclaimer, where I've literally seen people refuse to group up with people because they wanted to fly it solo or because "it's not necessary" to group up I would also like to add that I never heard much about NPC crews and the last I had heard about Blades was CIG being unsure if they even wanted to do them. On the flipside, I knew engineering was coming and I knew that all those extra seats and stations they built into the bigger ships were going to have a purpose. So again I'm just not sure why people are surprised

[@eddahildr8647]

@@BlackThanator tbh, even if it's what was promised, it should have hit another red flag being that the game will become completely dull and never have a lot of player if it's just squadron 42 with other player around. The strong point of SC is all about having people around you. Flying a capital ship alone is the complete opposite of the SC vision.

[@AzmanRacoon-bq1jt]

I'm among those pledgers who remembers Chris Roberts pitch about sitting in a bar and sending and receiving msgs from your NPCs doing jobs for you. That was a nice single player in a dynamic universe daydream....Gutted and disappointed but waiting patiently since 2012, It's not like CIG is NOT going to make NPCS crew, but after 14 years now, CIG is FINALLY being realistic about what they can prioritize and what they may need to put at the backburner, to be focused on more doable features first. This is not however a pass on CIG, still gutted, and it's 2024 not 2012, with what at earliest 2030 and beyond to expect with so many things still needed to be done, the management of the Star Citizen been far from efficient. But AT LEAST, CIG gave a heads up to solo players with big ships big fleet dreams, being NPC crews will be later on the priority list. No regrets in buying my big ships though. But not rushing to buy more. Have to contend to a 2030-2035 horizon to finally see my 2012/2014 day dream happen. Hopefully the WEF hijacked West doesn't start a war with Russia-Iran-China that mucks up everything. Globalist Elites should play video games more instead.

[@keno101]

I'll be retired before this game is sorted. ; ( At least I'll have more time to play, just gotta stay healthy.

[@AzmanRacoon-bq1jt]

@keno101 me thinking the same. SC would actually be a nice retirement game. Positive thinking my man. Stay healthy. 🙂

[@Rgmekanic]

It isn't CIG being realistic, its about funding drying up, them going broke, and having to ship SOMETHING that can appeal to the masses before it all sinks.

[@Boss-zo4lw]

If someone wants a gunner etc for a large combat ship then they will have to pay me 250k plus with the income death of a spaceman etc

[@sybermanpwner]

Will most likely be very easy for you to escape a capital ship, you will have a lot of time to get in your own fury or just escape pod.

[@Mr_Spock512]

Why? ... you'll have time to knit a sweater while waiting for someone to come into your arc of fire. Sounds like a ton of fun!

[@vygoth2652]

highly doubt death of a spaceman will still happen

[@Ashmodai]

The problem is as always how CIG communicates stuff. There is a very nice video out there (a year old) that shows CIG talking about NPC crew up and their almost all-encompassing capabilities until 2022 (video from 2023), so their intentions haven't really changed in the past. All infomation around CitCon however displayed a kind of dramatic shift towards the MMO aspect. The economy - which was 90% NPC driven - is now described as a completely "player-driven economy". No NPCs means that many ships are actually waaaay less useful. That doesn't matter right now since we don't have real persistance. But it would really count with 1.0, since that's when real progression really begins... CIG really brought themselves into that bad situation.

[@sutekhseth]

I melted my 600i for a more solo-friendly fleet. Now it's cargo, a fighter, and a medical ship for my desire to be an emergency pickup. But 99% of the time I just want to be left alone.

[@Solar546]

The 600i was the dream ship I wanted. As soon as I realized that using it as a solo player would be impossible I changed my mind. Now the biggest ship is the MSR

[@XeroJin84]

600i was said (officially) it would be one of the largest solo-friendly ship. So you should have probably kept it.

[@sutekhseth]

@@XeroJin84 I can just use a buy back token if I get really pressed and want it.

[@goffe2282]

I'm glad I seem to be getting SQ42. At the moment CIG seems to confuse high risk high reward with PvP, but I'm happy my Carrack helped fund SQ42 even though the PU is not directly appealing with the direction it's going. Give me a single-player button like ED has and we can start talking, preferably allowing me to invite friends (who can shoot me in the back, I absolutely do not mind friendly fire) but as long as I don't have to deal with other people.

[@Tael71]

We have 9 years of videos from the CIG official channel specifically stating we'd have NPC crews from the go. It was a major part of sales of several ships. CIG stepping back from yet another promise they made and used to push sales has been a breaking point for a lot of people. And we are seeing just how fed up people are getting with CIG breaking their promises, funding is down this year...

[@forcommenting1017]

Yeah, they promised bigger than they could deliver. I don't even think NPCs is technically possible, all that pathing and processing? Regardless, I still think this game is going to be amazing.

[@Gary_The_Metro]

@@forcommenting1017 Meh there's no reason why it shouldn't be possible. the pathing doesn't need to be massively complicated it's not like the ships' shapes change. And the processing is no more complicated than any other action within the game. Unless CiG overcomplicates it, which they will because they're CiG.

[@XeroJin84]

WRONG! it’s been 11 years. First video talking about it was in February 2013.

[@Tael71]

@@XeroJin84 The Away Team video starts with 2013 and ends in 2022, so in one video we have 9 years of statements. Thats the reference...

[@danielfeuling4162]

AI crew breaks balance in a competitive sense. If AI crew is competent, there is no reason to ever multi-crew from a competitive standpoint. If AI crew are not competent, the small demographic that expects them will be upset. We all knew going into Citizencon that some people would be upset by the 1.0 panel. If you can't see how AI crew are inherently bad for game balance and reinforces P2W aspects, and therefore, requires another look by CIG, I'm not sure what to tell you.

[@UnexpectedInquisition]

No NPC crew and only AI blades for things like guns makes me very very worried. Until NPC crews come in post 1.0, game will not really work as intended for many of us casuals.

[@kobodera8261]

I honestly wish that CIG would never have even mentioned NPC crews... mostly ineffective blades is one thing, but NPC crews is something else entirely... and considering the fact that regular NPCs tend to stand on chairs, tables, each other... good luck having them move inside a ship...

[@UnexpectedInquisition]

@@kobodera8261 All of that will need to work for SQ42 to work, nevermind the PU. Every NPC ship is supposed to be actually crewed by NPC, not faked. So the NPC will need to do everything on an NPC ship that humans do currently, including put out fires, engineering, etc. Otherwise NPC ship will be very critically flawed and likely to burn to the ground.

[@AdjudicatorBrbal]

Ive always said they kindve drop the ball on role and career interest. They need to add that aspect to the ships because new players are always lost on what ship to buy. They need categories such as ships under specific options. Bounty hunting to hauling

[@shadow910977]

fair points about engineering....im an actual engineer irl and i am very interested about the tinkering aspect of routing power through different locations or fuse banks, as well as how i might be able to optimize my ships engineering and have those power profiles ready to go (stealth, combat, speed, etc). like you said i think its good overall and will make combat a more balanced experience instead of just bringing the small ships and running circles around larger or capitol class ships, now if the big ship is crewed correctly that engineer can help it sustain much longer compared to the smaller fighter class ships.

[@jessecarlton2021]

I've been saying this for years, NO ONE is going to give up their ship that cost large amounts of money to go onto someone else ship that cost large amounts of money, just to sit in the corner and do nothing.....This game will live and die on the solo exp.....if they take that out, this game will die faster than you think. I have a Ironclad...why would I want to not fly that ship, just to go to someone else Ironclad and move cargo so they make more than me. When I can fly the ship and try to get others to do the same.... and there is no point in manning a turret. why would anyone want a person in a turret in a ship like the Constellation, the pilot has 4 size 5s, and the turret is 2 size 3, when that gunner can get into a starter ship, (titan) and have more firepower, and be a second ship coming from a second direction. Forcing multirole gameplay is going to suck balls.... so many ppl will leave, which in turn causes less ppl to play and less ppl to try to multirole with...

[@Jeremy_Walker]

I don't see how people think required multiplayer will work. Once on a ship, you are literally stuck there. Multiplayer is super fun sometimes and definitely want that experience. I don't want to be relegated to a small ship or HAVE to tie my game time to someone else. I don't want to be a full time turret gunner for three weeks.

[@LostSoul-TeemoMain]

Most of these people, Including the OP of this video are ORG enjoyers. They do not understand what it feels like to be totally isolated / solo. The average user does not have an ORG, Belong in a discord or have a friendgroup playing. I personally know a few people BUT only from playing the game itself, And i guarantee none of them would willingly staff another ship it takes too long and payoff is lacking. You can get paid but on an honor system, They need to add "Automatically Paid" contracts made by users for sitting on their ship. The "Honor System" doesn't work. Also, Zero reason why we can't have NPC that just sit in a chair right now and turret A.I enemies already got this just give them the command not to fire on the ship owner and call it a day till you can implement it fully, Lazy AF developers.

[@demonicsquid7217]

There are a few very specific instances where multicrew has been fun for me. The vast majority of the time it is not fun at all. There are organisational, logistical, and time zone issues to overcome. If you don't know anyone who plays the game or no-one in your org is available, then you are recruiting in general. Very few people are interested in sitting in a turret, mining seat, or salvage chair on someone else's ship when they could be flying their own. You get home from work, the last thing you want to do is more work in a game, you want to have fun for the hour or two you have to play.

[@GR8Saiyan]

I own a polaris and last night me and a mate both jumped into someone else’s polaris to fully man his one and it was a epic time taking out the Idris. He let us land in his hangar and we took off after the fight.

[@Jeremy_Walker]

@@GR8Saiyan It’s definitely fun when it’s fun. Glad you had a good time. I like having the option just don’t want to be relegated to only being able to do it that way.

[@steak-a-potamus6231]

Solid vid. As someone tha towns some of the larger industrial ships, i'm not too worried, it's easy to find people that want to crew those due to how much money they can make from doing so, and i'm happy to give part of the profits as pay because it can be made that much faster with extra crew members.

[@keno101]

04:19 SQ42 is the single player game, so please stop saying that is what solo players want in SC. Many of us don't, we want to run a NPC crew while also enjoying a player populated MMO universe.

[@goldfishmentality]

I just love that people ever thought CIG was capable of making functional AI

[@TJ-wq1ue]

Good insight here. Personally melted my arrastra and galaxy some time ago and only have the Odyssey as my larger ship. Figured I won't ever have the time to build a space station so I got the Odyssey as a soloable mobile station I can keep out in the black and launch my intrepid from for quick gameplay sessions. Theory crafting but sounds like it may be the most solo friendly large ship due to its self sustainability and if operated correctly, may never need to end up in risky situations.

[@vincentrow8540]

Because there are idiots that thought they'd be able to solo them despite *numerous* warnings from CIG that would not be the case...

[@Roylevis]

So i decided to keep my Odyssey, as it is a floating caravan, with medic and everything i will need. Land it somewhere distant and explore and build my small outpost for my org before they arrive.

[@meetrasurrik6982]

All pure theory crafting and imagined gameplay. The game wont ever be as good as it is in your own head

[@realnerdethan]

With only 5 systems at launch, I'm not sure how easy it'll be to find "somewhere distant".

[@JL-rj9fl]

​@@realnerdethanFor sure, I have an Odyssey myself and I'm under no illusion that I'll be going any great distance away, but I do like the endurance and utility the ship provides to stay out there a long time before heading back to port. It also serves as a nice flexible platform I can enjoy with my friends. 😊

[@JL-rj9fl]

​@@meetrasurrik6982I don't agree. Base building is coming, they showed it at Citcon, and the Odyssey is plenty large enough to stay out for a long time. The medium base building (CSV) vehicles can fit in it and construction materials can be transported. All tangible stuff, not much theory crafting required.

[@swisstraeng]

The best and shortest explaination about where engineering will matter: -In the current meta, ships will enter soft death. This simulates the destruction of vital parts such as the powerplant and (soon)batteries. Once a ship enters soft death, this is where engineering will make the difference. As it will either push soft death further away by actively repairing components, or revive a ship from soft death. -Soft death will be gone and replaced by engineering basically. Players will large ships need to ask themselves "How often did I enter soft death and how often would an onboard engineer help me last longer?" And the answer to that should be "barely once in a month". This, is how engineering will matter. For larger ships during combat, engineering will matter much more, as you will essentially fight until death if you chose so.

[@One_Piloty_Boy]

Honestly, i dont care if my Polaris wont work well as a solo player. I love my big beautiful ship that can house everything and anything i need in it. Its a true mobile home the likes of which only the Carrack or maaaaybe the Connie Aquila can compare to.

[@Funkm4ster96]

I own a few big ships and I'm excited for more reasons to group up with people. I think that SC has a problem with multiplayer gameplay as its just not super beneficial to play with others from both a time and cost perspective (outside of just for fun of course).

[@AlexeiX1]

I think the main issue is the lack of content that actually require larger ships with bigger crews. We could see when there’s a big idris that needs to be taken down in the server in save Stanton, multiple multicrew polarises showing up to kill it. It’s 100% the lack of content that kills it.

[@BlackThanator]

@@AlexeiX1 It's not _just_ the lack of content, it's also the incredible inconvenience of getting a large party together, combined with the frankly terrible effectiveness of multicrew ships compared to having all those people in a solo ship each. Beyond roleplaying, which a lot of peopel aren't into whatsoever, there's very rarely an actual mechanical benefit from multicrewing vs soloing smaller ships.

[@SubduedRadical]

@@BlackThanator " combined with the frankly terrible effectiveness of multicrew ships compared to having all those people in a solo ship each" - I see this argument a lot, but I think a lot of you VASTLY overstate the capabilities of the average player. I can fly ships, but I haven't figured out the combat system at all, especially missiles. I probably could mucking with it some and watching some KZbins (I've been more interested in medical and mining gameplay, and haven't owned a ship with missiles on it yet, but tried one in Arena Commander and literally could not figure out how to swap to missiles or get locks on anything), but right now, I'm FAR more useful in a turret on a big ship than in my own ship for combat against an Idris or something. I mean, think of the ships I own: C8R and Starfarer.

[@BlackThanator]

@@SubduedRadical Naturally, this argument is always made under the assumption that everyone involved, regardless of the scenario, is a somewhat experienced player. Being a noob in any profession is temporary, yet I doubt any capital ship owner would like their ship to be nothing more than a stepping stone for others until they feel confident enough to solo pilot. Combat has also gotten a LOT simpler since Master Modes. Boring even, some (a lot) people might say. But yes, as things are, Put 8 semi-experienced players in a single Polaris, or have 8 individual combat ships flying around, the latter will give you a lot more firepower to work with, coming from different angles, presenting as multiple targets, and if one ship does end up getting destroyed, it doesn't kill the other 7 players alongside it. The Polaris is unfortunately an especially egregious example, as it's main draw (the S10 torps) are utterly ineffective against their intended targets due to the PDCs.

[@scintilion]

Even if an Org is able to fully crew large ships, you will still need NPC/Blade crew as backup to player disconnects or other player issues.

[@TheMcNeo]

When someone defending this game tells you that the changes they're making aren't a big deal for you, remember, they wouldn't be making those changes if they weren't a big deal. Appeals to triviality don't work on me. That being said, I also never thought I could use a Polaris or similarly sized craft on my own. The real issues here are the deliberately imprecise language that CIG uses and the bait-and-switch on released ships like the Corsair. The former encourages people to buy ships on the basis of what the game is implied to be, rather than what it will be. The latter tells people clearly that their money isn't safe. You might say "its a pledge, not a purchase, you shouldn't expect that they wont change it" to which I say - sure, but if you massively change or detract from the fundamental capabilities of a ship, don't expect my money. And you can see from the low sales this year, people are holding off on purchases and re-evaluating their life choices. Is this really the game I think it will be? What if I wont be able to do the things I want with the ships I bought for those particular purposes? Another recent example is the U-Turn on the Galaxy, which they only did because they sold the ship on the basis of future base building and then outrageously tried to claim it was never a thing.

[@ZVLIAN]

@@TheMcNeo the galaxy building module should still be a future thing no?

[@alwayssearching4760]

Im a solo player. Love large ships. Melted everything for a 890J. As a solo player I cant secure any ships that use ramps to get on board or to load up cargo and vehicles. 890J is very well built for Solo players surprisingly.

[@ottodeluxe]

And now it can even kill small fry for you automagically

[@moebeans72]

How’re the hydrogen fuel costs? (Not hating btw I’m genuinely curious)

[@alwayssearching4760]

@moebeans72 used to be rough. but It's like they fixed the fuel scopes or something now. Just a couple thousand to refuel last time I took for a tour around a couple moons from arcorp to crusader.

[@alwayssearching4760]

I also keep a super fast bug out ship for emergencies like a mantis trying to troll it

[@LostSoul-TeemoMain]

What's the cargo capacity for 890J btw? I'm using Taurus and will continue using it solo regardless of what CIG wants.

[@johnnykaram881]

If more people tried crewing someone else’s capital ships and did missions together they would realise how fun it is to approach the verse with other people. I discovered that during the save stanton missions had a ton of fun getting crews for my Polaris (which only lasted 1 day 😢) and being a gunner in other people’s ships. Peak SC moments.

[@GeneCavalcante]

@@johnnykaram881 this. In my starlancer, I have a spot for an Engineer and a medic. Since I have a weapon expert and I'm the logistic and pilot ... and captain hahaha

[@jg1rock]

I've created other ships. it's boring. you want for 20 or more minutes for everybody to get to the same place. then you wait for something to do. you do the thing then you wait some more. add engineering to the mix and it's just going to be more bs that is just boring. but now it's also mandatory so you will either be scrambling between your station that is at least a little engaging to do the engineering crap or someone will be standing around waiting for engineering crap to happen. it's boring unlike a ship that I can just get in and go.

[@tullan1652]

Hopefully when they start getting more guild and group tools in the game, more people will be grouping together.

[@GeneCavalcante]

@tullan1652 they will. It was said at citcon. And looks excellent

[@AlexeiX1]

It is extremely counter intuitive to have a game where you want people to doubt other people’s intentions at all times cause crime is very profitable with little to no consequence and the idea that you should invite total strangers to hang out in your large vessel. Game needs to have systems in place to incentivize that type of behaviour, and not squash like it is atm.

[@J-Tech101]

In my opinion it was always a thing flying larger ships with a multicrew. 1-2 seats = Solo 3 or more = Multicrew I think the C1 Spirit is exactly for that one of the best Solo ships, especially when the engineering gameplay comes out.

[@tullan1652]

While that logic can kind of be used, it isn't how they showed it when first delivering ships. Take for example an Orion (I use this because it is one, I purchased LONG ago.) It was sold as 2-6 persons. The first number is minimum required, the second number was maximum life support can handle, along with the number of beds to log out, etc. Although it may not be a great example because I believe it grew from large to capital over the years, many non-combat capitals were sold with low number requirements. While I will multi-crew with it, there are many times I'm sure that won't be feasible, and it was sold to work with NPCs. Now I could change the ship, but marketing completely screws us over in doing so, partly because people abused the system in the past, but mostly to get new cash.

[@Mango_Mike]

I had my Polaris for about an hour before I melted it. This is 100%

[@broggyr]

I flew a Polaris once. I came to the realization I may never want to actually pilot a large multi-crew ship, so I downsized.

[@Baleur]

To me it just feels weird that CIG cant do anything right even when they do something spectacularly right, without a subset of players getting worried. The Polaris was literally the most "wow-moment" ive had in gaming the past 2 years, an absolute masterpiece surpassing any lofty expectations i could ever have had.. No not just visually, but INICLUDING the multi-crew gameplay even with pubbie pick-up groups in random servers. The emergent adventures and insane feeling of power with a good crew laughing and screaming, was beyond anything ive ever experienced in SC. It is brilliant. And people are worried about capital ship gameplay and dont like them anymore? After CIG releases the first true capital ship beyond expectations? I just dont understand people sometimes... Its SO easy to get crew. You ask in global chat, get 5 people who wanna join, and go have fun. This even when Polarises were flooding the servers during RSI day at IAE! Maybe those folks wanted a big connie. Well, then fly a connie. Or just try to be more social in a multiplayer game, and literally just ask for a crew.. Done. You now have a crew. "The multicrew large ship problem" solved in 15min. Its not hard. Imagine if people playing WoW said "dungeons and raids arent playable if you dont have 40 friends". Literally just LFG ingame. Its not hard.

[@elixer88]

I get the feeling that with this, we're gonna see a lot more fully-soloable medium sized ships be used/desired. As someone who will likely be playing solo 99% of the time, I'm cool with this. I'm also cool with the "Sea of Theives" in space sorta deal with ship upkeep. I just hope that the overall playerbase will be much less murderhobo-y than SOT. Maybe I'm not the right person for crowd-funding like things, but while I thank people who support the game with their big purchases, I find it difficult to be sympathetic with their complaints; they are investing in something that is not yet finalized, with elements that can change at any moment, and I feel that when making big purchases this needs to be kept in mind every step of the way. Now if CIG completely 180'd on something, I can understand frustration there (tbh I haven't been following multi-crew stuff much, as I'll be solo most of the time, so apologies if there HAS been a 180). Piggybacking on the "Sea of Theives" aspect you mentioned, needing more players for a bigger ship is exactly what SOT has; they highly recommend smaller ships unless you have a big enough crew. While I don't think it'll be quite as important, if you want to have your big ship operate at full capacity, you're gonna need some friends or hired help; SOT also has where you can join others' crews, so there may be some players who just want to experience big ship life without buying into it / having a friend who owns a big ship.

[@KeeperOfDGroove]

I will say this, People understimate my ability to have a blast with a Solo Polaris Torp from 30 km out just because I can 😛. Yes more fun when fully crewed but won't stop me from using it, I got it for more than just its combat potential after all.

[@realnerdethan]

With the potential cost to repair, refuel, rearm, insure, and store the Polaris you might not have time to do much else other than grind credits. I think that's what people are concerned about.

[@StarUnionPrime]

If there no missions that cover running costs even when shared. No one will use them.

[@AlienDarkmind]

I think most players look for a x4 type of game, but more immersive and multiplayer. I dont expect anyone can play every session i can and vice versa. So if a ship dont function with a solo player, then its not going to be a ship that is used by anything but a single session.

[@DublinOdinson]

It is hard to get excited about new ships when they nerf the ones we already own just to make the new ones look better.

[@NyssaW-c8q]

CIG spent a decade selling everyone including solo players capital ships on the understanding we will have NPC to make use of those purchases viable. I don’t mind waiting for them. I’ve waited a decade already. But there should be a greater sense of priority about it and it shouldn’t have been neglected for so long. How are we going to have an official release when cig hasnt released a fundamental promised tool that is necessary for solo players to make use of the purchases. It’s ridiculous. How much longer after 1.0 is the wait is it for solo players to actually enjoy the game as intended? Rich even recognized working our way up ships is form of progression. No NPC crew means players are severely gimped out of the progression.

[@azntactical4884]

The only cap. ship I potentially have is the endeaver. The rest of my ships consist of mainly 1 person.

[@00avenger00]

Talking sense as usual! Appreciate it brother 🙏

[@wafflesinsanity]

We have been talking about this for years. Glad to see it coming to fruition as people *finally* realize the game CIG has been making. The only issue is that CIG will continue to promote this misconstrued idea that "NPC Crew" and "AI Blades" will allow a solo pilot the ability to fly these large ships. CIG will continue this because the more "solo pilots" they get to purchase these massive ships, the more money they make, its that simple. Then after 14+ years of touting the idea, theyll remind people that AI Blades will cost resources and power, and that NPC crew will require maintaining relationships, working conditions, and wages. There is a huge split in the community, between people who "play the game for today" bugs and all, taking advantage of the "META," and people who "play the game for release" and who purchase ships accordingly with the understanding that eventually UEC will be difficult to make, losing a ship will hurt, and losing a life will cost more than a few missions. It's a shame so few people know how much will change.... but at the same time, it doesn't help that CIG will continue to be purposefully vague in order to keep the project going, as opposed to making sweeping changes and correcting misinformation.

[@Baleur]

It never made sense to me (also a Polaris owner btw, but only a Polaris) that people were assembling their private "fleets" of multiple capital ships, 3 hammerheads, etc.. Basically more than 1 of any given ship chassi never made sense to me. What are you gonna do with your 4 hammerheads and 2 idrises? Nothing. You are gonna crew 1 idris with your org, and the hammerheads will be owned / ingame bought by many people in your org. Buy one ship you really like and want to excel at. Dont burn money on virtual bookmarks. You dont have 8 arms. You can only physically play with 1 ship at a time. And you wont burn through capitals at one per 10 minutes anyway. Even if you have alts, you only have 2 arms. You literally cant do more than fly with your left joystick and press "fire torps" with your right hand.

[@VonSpud]

Great vid 👌 I still want a Polaris... First time I flew slowly over top of a bunker and my buddy in the same room was looking up while standing near the ramp to the bunker entrance... Looking over at his monitor ... It reminded me of Close Encounters of the Third Kind movie. This massive ship, bigger than even the bunker facility. It was epic. StarCitizen took a firm step forward.

[@dchippie]

I loved my Reclaimer but melted it because of what I was hearing and I’m a solo player

[@sanctred]

Everyone is a solo player until they group up... Most players will spend most of their time in game solo, just like every other MMO. You only join up for co-op play when you're doing co-op missions, dungeons, raids, etc, etc,... I think peoples focus on solo vs not solo has been WAY to black/white. Being solo or not solo is not a static attribute of a player.

[@Rangar1959]

Thanks for the video! 👍 Well, I am not worried about crew. I am pretty sure, that outside of combat I don't need a crew. Maintenance (engineering) I can do myself when landed. An extra person for that I would only need in a fight, where someone has to repair battle damage, while I am busy trying to avoid being hit. I have a good mix of ships. I am an industrial player and if no friend or orgmember is online, I use Prospector or Vulture. If they are, I use my Arrastra or let me be hired on someone's Reclaimer. If I want to do a bounty mission, I use my solo fighter F8C or if there are bigger battles to fight, I play gunner on an orgmate's capital ship. And if someone wants me to build a base for him with my Pioneer, he has to play crew on my ship. The only people in trouble would be those, who have ONLY big ships. But I doubt, that there are many.

[@michaelhubbard5013]

Big fan of your channel as an Elite fan. It'll be cool in 10 years when they finally have all their ships mostly built and things are stable

[@LostSoul-TeemoMain]

The problem with these videos is people like OP do not play purely solo, They are almost all in ORGS that interact with eachother every now and again or get treated differently due to "Streamer" "Content Creator" ETC As a true solo you feel unwanted by the game itself, They make the solo experience miserable. There is NO reason they can't make NPC's that permanently sit in the turret chair and do not fire on the ship owner or party members. I cannot use any larger ship right now like a majority of people, Everytime i join a server i see the same thing . . People begging for others to crew their Polaris. Nobody wants to staff your ship, WE WANT TO USE OUR SHIP.

[@Mr_Spock512]

"People begging for others to crew their Polaris." Why be a minor character in someone else's story when you can be the hero in your own?

[@Kyle-sr6jm]

Yep. My CCU chain plans leave one Cap ($300 BMM too big a loss to melt) one sub-cap Arrastra, everything else is modified to he a max of 3-4 crew with now a focus on solo and duo crew.

[@killervoid6352]

It only now clicked that engineering is going to be like sea of thieves, you've finally gotten me to understand how it would work, thank you!

[@supasneaks]

I just think it's a shame that solo play hasn't been more thoughtfully considered. Having the solution be "solo players just have to use smaller ships" is disappointing. Single-seat fighters are the only ships in the game that can be used to their full potential with a single player. Have you considered this? As soon as you get to the Cutlas and Freelancer you have copilot seats and gunner seats. People keep saying that solo players will be able to do everything but I genuinely don't think anything has been balanced with that in mind. Can you solo a Constellation? Yes. Can you use it's full armament without another person? No. So people are deciding what is "solo friendly" or "solo-able" with ships that were not designed for solo players. It's "is enough of the ship useable for me to make it worth it solo" This is why the Corsair was so popular. it was the most firepower accessible to a single pilot out of all the ships in the game. It was a solo player's endgame. Any bigger and you lose effectiveness. solo. The game is full of players flying multi-crew ships by themselves. All those big cargo ships? Those aren't single player ships. Without a crew you're defenseless should you come under attack. So people say, "well you should've gotten a crew then". But perhaps ships shouldn't be designed as if they will be multi-crewed even 10% of the time they are flown. It is complete fantasy. There is a reason World of Warcraft did away with 40-man raids and that 10-man raids are the most popular despite the existence of a 25-man option. Ultimately a lot of people want to progress to bigger and badder ships. It is the most obvious form of progression. What we're now learning is that this form of progression stops early for solo players. I think it's fair that a lot of people find that really disappointing. There's realistic and then there's fantasy. None of the multi crew ships they have designed will realistically be fully manned hardly ever. Why? For one, it's harder to find more people and two, it's more effective to put that other person in another ship. Every time. They announce the Paladin and everyone wants to know if any of the weapons can be fired by the pilot. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? These multi-roles are not compelling enough. That ship will NEVER have 3 gunners. It will only ever be the pilot and one gunner in the 4xS5. Manning the side turrets is a complete waste and removes function from the pilot. No one wants that. Mark my words....

[@slickdiggler1197]

lol. Sell your accounts people. The ship is sinking.

[@ohyeah2816]

I'm a bit of a collector rather than wanting to actually crew ships. I've also used my Carrack, Reclaimer and more recently my Polaris to get to know my way around so I could make myself useful on other peoples big ships.

[@Primordial_Originator]

Selling my account tried for years to buy the kraken they wouldnt do anything been here for over 10 years enough is enough the money is gone i have to accept that i have 1660 dollars sitting in there in store credit to buy the damn thing but no the priority goes to someone botting and scripting to sell it on the greymarket. It made me realise they are just greedy and don't actually care about there loyal player base so im done GTA 6 is what il wait for and spend my money on

[@turbocjj5672]

I considered purchasing a lifetime insurance ship and upgrading it to the Polaris. I saw it for the first time the other day and immediately fell in love with how cool it looked and how versatile it can be. However, upon seeing the engineering console and torpedos, ive decided against it. Im likely to be primarily a solo player who bands together occasionally with my 3-7 other friends. But two of those friends own larger capital ships (Kraken and Idris) so they will also need people running their ships. In addition, if my playgroup only have a handful of hours a week to play, people aren’t going to want to run around and fix the ship or sit on the torpedo panel and press launch when they could be in their own fighter or manning a turret. The devs are going to start to realise that once the game meets a more playable, public ready space, people aren’t going to want to do realistic things in exchange for fun. A game is fun, not a chore. Regardless, until they allow bed logging on friendly ships, multicrew isn’t viable anyway

[@fg1110]

It’s fine as long as owning and operating a capital ship gives some kind of benefit.

[@ForFSakes13]

Great video. One point about the ships I would like to make is I don't think any ship should have no pilot weapons. Sucks, and doesn't make sense. Name one sci-fi movie where the pilot goes "Welp I'd love to help you but all my crew are busy so I can't fire any weapons......"

[@ForFSakes13]

Should do a poll of who plays solo the majority of the time vs group "separate ships" vs group "multicrew ship"

[@ODSTGeneralYT]

Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Halo, outside of smaller fighters and shuttles, weapons are typically handled by either one person, or a separate group from the pilot in most major franchises.

[@ForFSakes13]

true, but the captain is also never seen running from station to station because there is always someone there to boss around I get it it's tv. Scenario, ship is being boarded you have to send the cabin crew to try and hold back the enemies. All while being attack outside and being boarded while trying to escape. "Whelp guys we are just not going to worry about shooting while we try to escape cause the pilot the only person left in the locked bridge." as anyone left in a turret trying to defend the ship is executed in their seat. I'm going to use the Chewbacca defense here...."It just doesn't make any sense."

[@ForFSakes13]

Just for the record I'm a little salty about it yea but either way I'm still going to play this game. They are just missing out on allot of money that could have been put towards the project and maybe you know getting this game to 1.0 before another 10 years.

[@sneedkeedle4131]

This is how I learn about some social tool in the works. That's actually sick

[@noknownnomenclature]

You should be able to buy an AI crew compliment for capital ships, or an expensive enough ship should come with lifetime crew, 10 year crew, 1 year crew, or 6 month crew, like the insurance.

[@NomadPoncho]

@@noknownnomenclature in before the next IEA features the first crew pledges for this exact thing 😅

[@Saturn-6]

Always enjoy your Videos

[@thrashjf83]

Got to love how that means an entire promised gameplay loop is not in game at launch of 1.0, as without working AI npcs there is no need for touring and no need for people transporters such as the starliner and e1.

[@Chris-u8s7c]

As a solo player I'm interested in medium ships like 400i, apollo. 3 man ships are a good size for solo play and there is an option for a friend or two to join you at times.

[@cmcmillan22]

I’ve noticed a lot of people rethinking it. Now that the Polaris was freely passed out and people got hands on with they realize how much it costs to repair/rearm and how useless it is solo or even 2 or 3 guys. The medium/large size is really a nice fit for most people and I know a few that melted capital preorders to buy multiple smaller ships

[@jeffreydweeks]

Always a good video and take on the game.

[@humech]

Thank you for this, the winging going on is interesting

[@MrTree421]

True, for me personally I hope I can keep my BMM working relatively effectively searching out Traderoutes from one end of the verse to the other touching down at player outposts and landing zones to trade. Potentially getting joined by 1-4 Friends some times but not always. I do understand for example that i might lose efficiency during loading doing it solo or in combat with the turret not being manned, or while getting boarded in FPS Combat but since my combat plan is either running away or straight through with the S8 Guns blasting the way clear and fleeing into quantum again that does seem somewhat alright.

[@stevel105]

If I cannot Solo a Ship, I won't buy it either.

[@realnerdethan]

I'm glad the largest ship I've purchased is a Carrack with a max crew of 6, but now that NPCs and TDB I'm worried about even being able to use it at all because getting into a fight means I'm a sitting duck. Same with my Ironclad. With no way to know if a random is a good person to work with, no way to guarantee org friends have time/interest in crewing, no NPCs, and limited blade capabilities I've seriously considered melting the Carrack and Ironclad. That would leave me with a Zeus and a couple other smaller ships which are much easier to fly and defend on my own. I'm also concerned about having to pay for storage, maintenance, and insurance on these larger ships. I had planned on using them to generate the income needed cover their costs but if I'm not using them they become a burden instead. I think people are right to be worried and should continue to think about this situation as we learn more.

[@FishFPS]

I knew this was coming. Personally, I try not to buy any ships that take more than 4 players. I feel like a lot of the "1-4 crew" ships I could handle on my own. But I can usually field 2-3 friends to play with me, pretty easily. Probably FAR more easily once multicrew becomes more fun and especially after 1.0 (whenever that happens). The one exception to that is the Banu Merchantman. I'll fly that solo if I have to. :) Not too long ago I did realize that ships that say they have a minimum crew of 2-3 or more, are not going to be something I can do, unless I join an org. So I melted or traded the ones I had. But, also like you pointed out, it's not worth really worrying about, at this stage. Just deal with it as development happens.

[@CitizenGroza]

Whattup Tomato. Great vid as always. Comments about group bedlogging are legit. They’re going to have to create some mechanic to allow this. Why not give us an option? When you log in, you can choose to spawn in on the last ship you bedlogged on IF THE OWNER OF THAT SHIP IS CURRENTLY IN THE VERSE ON THAT SHIP, or can choose to spawn in at last station. Doesn’t that solve the problem kind of? No idea how the programming side of things works. I had so much fun with the Polaris that I bought a WB Idris. We’re not all giving up on big ship gameplay. :) o7 my friend.

[@AnymMusic]

I mean I don't think NPC crew won't come, but also it wouldn't be worth it. Like CIG would HAVE to balance NPC crew so that it works ok-ish in PvE stuff (like an engineer barely being able to handle things here and there), but would get shredded in any PvP battles. Not to mention the costs for running such a ship solo is stupendous.

[@tullan1652]

I wouldn't think most people wanting the ability to NPC crew a capital would be looking for pvp combat. Most are transport, industry, crafting. Could be some brave souls that would attempt some combat PVE, but even that sounds like it could be pushing the limits.

[@danny1988221]

Personally. Ive been using the Polaris as a bigger carrack. Its works great and has more things making it a better swis army knife that I can solo fine as my space base. It reduces the time I have to go back to my hangar by a alot. This is exacly how I will use my kraken. Its a space base where I can leave go do minig or reclaim and come back and offload.. land in my pad and go eat and sleep. I can log off, come back later and just keep going. The worst I have to worry about would be getting a ship I took out to danger getting destroyed. But having its as a base for me yes, I can do that and the thought of needing AI for that never crossed my mind. The carrack showed me how I can do it.

[@FrigidX]

I'm honestly pleased with the idea that a large, multi-crew ship should not be solo-feasible. The game is intended I feel to promote team gameplay. As a (Generally) Solo Player having AI crew or a pickup group help fly a 4-5 man ship sounds ideal. If I insist on running a solo Op, I'll just use a smaller ship and accept that I can't roll up to a bounty in an Idris. I think that Citizens should be encouraged to run about in smaller ships and populate the verse that way. That would add a level of danger/security/weight if a big ship appears that would not be there if the large ships are extremely common.

[@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon]

The game will die then, the biggest backers of the game are solo players.

[@tullan1652]

You can't promote team play and also just let people shoot you in the back and run off with your ship while you wait for a month for the insurance to kick in.

[@Jeremy_Walker]

@@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon The mechanics are too clunky. Without some form of fast travel, capital ships will be a wash at scale. It takes too much time to do nothing to make it a routinely repeatable process. Even "multi-crew" ships, if you really think about it, are not going to work if other real players are required to operate them effectively. The vast majority of players are not going to tie 100% of their game time to being a crew member on a ship. Again, if you really think about it.... If you are "exploring" away from a station with friends in a multicrew. You have to sync your playtime with a group of people all the time. You can never just hop on and play by yourself. You are stuck on that ship. That may work for the kids who play everyday or the odd group of adults that have this as a second job, but for a huge amount of people that's a wash. Bottomline- AI crew and some form of fast travel or Agent Smithing will be necessary.

[@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon]

@@Jeremy_Walker exactly I got my own capital ships to not crew for others

[@Jeremy_Walker]

@@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon It's funny too, because people will say "main character syndrome". No shit- it's a game, of course I want to be the main character.

[@VideoSage]

I really do feel it is utterly illogical for anyone to be concerned about the engineering systems. They were always promised, and it's only logical there will be growing pains. What truly deserves concern though, even more than it has gotten, is that lack of NPC crews. Something, like engineering, that was promised since the beginning. For engineering to be properly balanced, large ships will have to have complex issues, requiring a solo player to either address them, or assign a crew member to them. Unfortunately, they are leaving an incredibly important part of the game, out of the game, until after launch. Now, you did mention the idea of this not being an issue for those not particularly keen on fombat- but I feel it is a great oversight, not to remember "the verse is a dangerous place." Even if you are just mining, you can find yourself being attacked by a "pirate," human or otherwise. This means there is scarcely any guarantee of a safe bit of non-combat gameplay. NPC crews, should be something with equal priority to even building these large ships. The lack of them, and the shocking intent to backburner them all the way to post launch, is beyond disheartening. . .

[@SpaceTomato]

Lack of NPC crew sucks, genuinely. As for how much danger you'll be in in a system like Terra or Stanton? We'll have to see

[@VideoSage]

@SpaceTomato Indeed, time shall tell. I personally hope time, and player feedback, will result in NPC crews becoming a focus prior to 1.0. That way danger, from NPC pirates or players, will be less of a mute point to the larger ship solo player.

[@ahumeniy]

Pretty sure AI crews are going to be a money sink too, unless slavery is still a thing in UEE

[@Mike5Brown]

It was stated years ago but basically extra game packages on your account are basically slaves. Who knows how it is going to change.

[@FamGamTv]

I did retool my fleet this IAE moving towards a lower crew count. I mine in-game, and I do own the Orion .jpg , that's the largest vessel I'll ever own. Having 6 or 7 consistently WILLING to run that ship is going to be challenging enough.

[@honey-fe6pj]

Its been refreshing and liberating (no pun intended) for me to move away from big ships but i've been doing it for more than a year- I've got myself a Liberator so i am happy to move my small XS ships around. Fly to point a and stop after 30 secs, then turn and fly to point b for 30 seconds and i will be in the middle of nowhere...then fly my Prospector/Terrapin/Misc Fortune/Razor EX etc to do stuff...

[@MidKnight2142]

I completely understand why people are downsizing with engineering becoming a thing. I'm no longer super excited for/with my Polaris. Not that I had any false hopes that I could successfully solo it. I have a small group of friends that I play with, 2-5 people (including me). I had envisioned the Polaris to be a sort of hub for our game play, even though we don't typically do combat stuff (mainly mining, salvaging, and cargo). We can definitely make the Polaris work for us for our needs, but I'm worried about just how in-depth and demanding engineering is going to be. I really hope CIG doesn't focus too much on realism (yes, I know its a sci-fi video game), I'm honestly already worried/dreading stuff like "death of a spaceman", and after seeing the changes to personal inventory systems to physicalized, I'm finding it more tedious than fun. That's what I'm worried about engineering. I want it to be FUN, not tedious...says the guy who is super excited for how in-depth crafting and materials are going to be. I haven't made any rash decisions about what ships I have or plan on changing purely for engineering, but I am for sure more cautious about it now.

[@Rhapses]

The only thing I want with Engineering is an NPC Engineer. I don't need NPC Crew for anything else, right now. Turrets can be covered by AI Blades, but Engineering cannot. People will attack you. Server meshing is almost here. That means more players in the same place as you - so more PVP is inevitable, thus engineering will have an impact. So yes, I want the ability to hire an NPC Engineer, and sooner than pretty much anything else. The only thing I'd have higher as a priority would be server stability, right now.

[@galapagoshark]

Biggest ship I bought is the Perseus with its crew requirements of 3-6. Everything else is 1-2 max specifically because I didn't want to worry about a large crew of humans or AI

[@TheyLiveICanSee]

I am not panicking, I just got here new player. And we new players are coming in a lot. I only bought the started ship will not buy any other ships with real money. Till I see the bugs fixed at New Babbage, and anything else I will not pay a dime till things are fixed.

[@Mr_Spock512]

This is the way.

[@noxvardeen6978]

Honestly, main issue is getting together to begin with. Finding people who want to man turrets, do engineering, etc. is all doable. But then one is at MIC, another at CRU, but you‘re at HUR. So you wait 15min until they’re on board. Another friend hops on late, add another few minutes. Something bugs out as you had your ship half-loaded, it explodes, someone forgot to set their spawn and has to fly again - and suddenly you spend an hour without having taken off. If we play any other MMO, we‘re ready to go do something within minutes. Even by putting time aside, two or three hours is the maximum time - spending an hour to get going or more… nah.

[@Nanobits]

If there is one thing we learned from the current Capital ship play, you better be grinding big time in order to maintain those ships, they are expensive to operate, repair and re-arm. The Polaris on average costs a quarter of million just for re-arming, not including repairs and other.

[@LockDCS]

I have the opposite problem. I WANT to fly the larger ships and am looking forward to the engineer role. But it feels impossible to link up with people outside of org events on the fly. I wonder how many people will feel better about multicrew when the socail 2.0 tech comes online?