Why Super Saiyan GRADE 3 is STRONGER Than Super Saiyan 2

Is Super Saiyan a 500x Multiplier like Ultra Super Saiyan? Is Grade 3 Super Saiyan 10 times stronger than Super Saiyan. Could it be more powerful than Super Saiyan 3? Future Trunks used it in Dragon Ball Z but Caulifla used it in Dragon Ball Super. Why Super Saiyan GRADE 3 is STRONGER Than Super Saiyan 2
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[@RevoluShane]

Would you like to see Future Trunks return in Dragon Ball Super?...Your thoughts? PS.Expecting Backlash for this video, but please do watch the full video before you do so.

[@mohammadkamran966]

Yeah but these timeliness made my Brain tooo MESS UP !!! 🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁

[@falcolord8404]

RevoluShane your actually right too, I believe one of the scans and guides list Ultra SSJ something as a x10 increase of SSJ so even SSJ in raw power would only be close to USSJ but obviously SSJ3 has more benefits but thinking about it I’m not sure how in the long run either from would do in terms of energy conserving

[@SaintDragon666]

good job with this one. This i can believe. I normally don't question seth's reasoning but I had issues with his grade 3 vs grade 4 and ssj2.

[@tiocopiagoku2875]

SSJ Grade 3 is a 5x increase of SSJ.

[@kennyallison967]

Is SSJ grade 3 stronger than SSJ3?

[@shaynelewis1587]

Makes sense to me, I think the best example you had here was when Trunks tried tricking Vegeta with it in Dragon Ball Super.

[@tiocopiagoku2875]

Ya lol same.

[@xelic1996]

Makes sense cause vegeta would have killed cell with his final flash if he aimed a little lower lol

[@arushashwingo]

I mean Cell did admit in the manga flat out that trunks completely surpassed Cell in brute strength

[@Li_Mn]

@@arushashwingo so did super saiyan 2. Ive always thought Grade 3 was Super saiyan 2 with heavy speed loss.

[@hoshiryu]

It's lower than a 2x multiplier and SS2 wasn't called SSGrade 5 for nothing And Cell saying Trunks could beat him was because at that point of Level Cell was using Trunks was Stronger but Cell could've powered up and would be stronger than Trunks was Wow Piccolo saying that while cell only shows about a bit of his Power

[@cavemanbuddyolpal]

I’ve always wondered would it be a good idea to go from ssj 2 to grade 3 during a beam struggle cus your not moving?

[@theeternalsaiyan555]

Thats pretty interesting

[@onyxt3589]

Yeah...

[@micahben-avraham5635]

No it wouldn't be a good idea because SSJ Grade 3 also burns through your energy much faster than SSJ2. So just the act of transforming into SSJ Grade 3 would hit your stamina so hard you wouldn't be able to maintain a blast during a beam struggle. It's the reason Vegeta didn't transform to use his Final Flash and the reason why Trunks was only throwing punches and kicks and not firing ki blasts in his fight against Cell.

[@retardedpenguin2936]

@@micahben-avraham5635 ngl I am pretty sure he did transform during it as when u see him charging it u can see his body seeming to enlarge and his hair spike more although this could be just for design I think he did transform But mid beam struggle that won't work as u said to that would burn your stamina temporarily so the you won't be able to hold the beam

[@lesedixz]

​@@micahben-avraham5635 that's the thing though, you wouldn't have to maintain any beam struggle if you have the power level advantage, you'd only use grade 3 in a beam struggle if you know ittl be enough to quickly wipe out the fight in the first place rather than dragging a whole beam struggle in ssj2

[@-OUS_J]

Pros: More strength Cons: Less stamina More ki used Less speed You literally are a bigger target

[@austinjrb]

"You literally are a bigger target" 🤣💀💯

[@bailujen8052]

Ssj grade 3 for beam struggle

[@Play4k6]

@@bailujen8052 yeah

[@-OUS_J]

@@EXPOSINGTHELIES247 I was describing the pros and cons of SSJ grade 3 not comparing it to SSJ2

[@justinlynch3]

The issue with this theory is, when Gohan went SSJ2 everybody was frozen in shock from the power they was sensing. Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, Piccolo, they where all in complete awe of merely SSJ2 Gohan's power. So if USSJ did have higher raw strength, why would Trucks be shocked by SSJ2? Why would Piccolo who sense Trucks be in awe once again at SSJ2? When Gohan goes SSJ2, it's implied by the Z Fighters reactions that his POWER and SPEED both far exceed any other Z Fighter.

[@rowan2445]

Trunks stated that gohan did it right by increasing his power without sacrificing speed. So that's why he was so shocked with ssj2. In this case we can say power includes both speed and strength. And z fighters like piccolo can sense the power of the form. So trunks increased his strength but heavily decreased his speed, while gohan increased both speed and strength. So gohans overall power would be greater than trunks but not his strength.

[@justinlynch3]

@@rowan2445 Does that really add up though? I dunno if things are different in the manga, probably are. But in the anime Perfect Cell toys around with Trunks a bit and lets Trunks get a few licks in before he embarrasses the USSJ form, and Trunks really manages to do nothing in regards to damage to Cell. Meanwhile SSJ2 Gohan can inflict massive damage upon Cell with just a couple hits and kill the Cell Jr's in 1 hit. So would that not also suggest SSJ2 not only beats USSJ in speed but also strength?

[@rowan2445]

@@justinlynch3 this is the problem tho. You are relying on the anime. The manga does go differently. In the manga cell states that trunks's strength is far beyond his own. Unlike the anime Cell does not allow trunks to land a hit on him cause he knows that he will be heavily damaged if trunks manages to land something. Then cell powers up into his own grade 3 form to show trunks that he can increase his strenght too by bulking up but chooses not to because its useless. Also a side note. I think the z fighters were more shocked at gohans powrer because it was gohan and not goku. Gohan was still a kid. Even when he powered up as ssj they were surprised. They doubted him at first. Even king kai was shocked that gohan was stronger than goku as a regualr ssj

[@rashid2898]

YES BECAUSE gohan initially in Z had a hidden power over everyone so is why maybe everyone is shocked@@justinlynch3

[@justinkruzisafag]

Very informative video, you did a great job backing up your points and debunking that stupid 500x multiplier bs that seththeprogrammer brought back into light months back, which was extremely irritating. Strength is one thing, but if the opponent has any kind of speed and agility, you won't win. A well rounded fighter is a better fighter than someone who just focuses on one thing, such as strength alone. That's why Vegeta didn't use the form against Cell, he knew what would happen and Trunks realized in his folly that he didn't surpass Vegeta at all like he thought.

[@Bigjay88888]

Exactly

[@powerlevelguy8054]

Indeed, Super Saiyan "Grade 4" turns out to just be regular ol' Super Saiyan. It is an interesting theory, but it turns out to be false.

[@Moneybagyo131]

Not only does ssj2 and ssj3 multiplies the speed and strength of the user but also multiplies durability,unlike grade 2 and grade 3.. which appears to only increase "strength"......remember ssj2 gohan tanked a punch from Full power cell like nothing but trunks was about to be killed

[@elpopman2055]

Trunks never even Touched Cell and Cell only Dodged trunks attacks in the Manga

[@michelepizzicara8418]

@Moneydagyo131 Ssj3 decreases durability due to his stamina drain

[@Moneybagyo131]

@@michelepizzicara8418 in that sense, yes. Thats the only durability trait ssj2 beats ssj3. But let me ask you, can ssj2 tank the attacks ssj3 can? Kid buu put a major beating on ssj2 vegeta. Overall ssj3 is more durable

[@remuvs]

I feel like Grade 3 could practical for fights it would be a matter of adapting and training to get used to the greater weight caused by the enlarged muscles.

[@chantakzee]

They could use it like how DBM use it, grade 2 to boost speed and only grade 3 to land critical blows, or when its in a finger dead lock Trunks could go grade 3 and give cell a couple good blows but cell with his chimera mix of abilities finally beat trunks and everyone will be happy.

[@alexbasha0508]

Grade 3 is like a mini Broly form, only that you’re slow.

[@hanzohasashi844]

Are you kidding me ssj grade III is a steroid version of ssj2

[@RevoluShane]

Lmao

[@pikichugo]

This is incorrect. Ssj2 is by far stronger than g3ssj. And I can easily prove it.

[@davidhatcher7016]

@@pikichugo do it.

[@Thugzz77]

@@pikichugo so soooooooo right they don't know what there talking about

[@konodiiego1332]

RevoluShane ye basically lol

[@kristiankember8973]

The big problem with this is that it implies trunks going back in the time chamber for 2 years can't get 10x stronger. Same for vegeta.

[@Bigjay88888]

I always wondered why they couldn't get stronger with that extra yr that doesn't seem fair

[@Bigjay88888]

You training yo ass off while their just sleeping under a tree in ssj form and still stronger than you.

[@kristiankember8973]

@@Bigjay88888 yea its more likely that they can get stronger but goku new form is just so much stronger that trunks and vegeta couldn't make the difference.

[@annamae3946]

@@Bigjay88888 training smarter >>> training harder

[@Bigjay88888]

Broly uses this form and kicks ass

[@alexbasha0508]

J Rob Errrr LSSJ, SSJ grade 3, very different forms, visually they are similar. The overly bulky muscles, increase height, the hair gets spikier.

[@kidnumber1ormaybenot]

Actually Legendary Super Saiyan is like Super Saiyan 1 but with the ki of super saiyan 3 or maybe god.

[@oofmom]

Does LSSJ have grade 1 grade 2 grade 3 or grade 4?

[@Bigjay88888]

@@oofmom he can use those forms but he's so damn strong he doesn't need to he can access that power without drawbacks

[@cygnusablackhole74]

@@oofmom No he doesn't.

[@thebunz7]

It's purely fiction but based off of context, grade 3 was stronger than ss2 but slower and more drain resulting in kill fast or lose. Trunks suffered from hiding it from father so not understanding its strengths and weaknesses. If he truly trained with it in the hyperbolic time chamber and understood its risk to reward, he may have been able to use its strengths to gain a win especially since cell needed to be destroyed completely every cell to die. It was a tell all when perfect cell came back and instantly killed trunks. It's pure damage with obvious weaknesses. If dragon ball fighters worked together and not try to full testosterone 1v1 every boss, they might actually win without having to train forever. Tank, healer, damage, support etc...

[@cryptomon86]

Like i said no one called asspull when trunks was one of the strongest characters in the cell arc. Cell was impressed at that moment. Though cell was supressed. In raw power, trunks had the title of strongest for a moment. No one cried foul, maybe because most didn't catch that part. But when trunks asspulls on Zamas everyone flips. Maybe bc these forums and videos weren't around really in the 2000s lol

[@natereynolds2783]

Because there was a valid reason. He was a half sayian who was bringing out his potential. Verses super, where at first he is near the level of ssj3, then he gets up to SSJB, which is a power jump if at least 1000000x(the real number is much higher, as SSG is far stronger than that, due to it being universe level, then times the 250x of super sayian grade 2 for blue), and then he goes from that to with a simple spirit bomb, to the level of a weakened fusion between a ssg level fighter and a even stronger than vanilla SSJB, SSR. As the potaras multiply fighterxfighter in regards to base power, fused zamazu was literally billions of times stronger than trunks, and yet a spirit bomb created by a couple hundred people was enough to win??! Nobody else was left in the universe, and goki didn't even do it. If they didn't keep everyone dead but had brought everyone in the universe back from being killed twice using the super dragonballs, I would think it would make sense. But comparing the two plots makes no sense in power scaling. In one hand, you had a future trunks on the level of ssj2(2xgrade 2), as a half sayian, with a crippling weakness. On the other hand, his power level gets boosted from 20 ish billion, to literally in the septillions. I'm sorry, but that is really dumb to compare the two

[@gioellsbury3815]

So when gohan punched cell and made him spit out 18 , when did trunks do that

[@Imimurwalls283]

Gohan was stronger than trunks in general

[@JunkStarDuelist1993]

If one could switch between ssj2 and Grade 3 mid punch similarly to what Vegeta and Goku managed later on with God and Blue this form could have had a much greater longevity but alas that was not the case.

[@spearghost225]

Or even use it with beam clashes, which happen consistently in the show. Honestly, I feel like this could've been a thing that at least Vegeta used in the Buu/Beerus sagas, and maybe Trunks could've used it in the Goku Black saga since they'd be the only ones to benefit from this at the time

[@finalredemption4088]

Super Saiyan grade 3 cannot have a 500 times multiplier. Because Super Saiyan 3 is much stronger than Super Saiyan 1 grade 3 with a multiplier of 400× Base.

[@elpopman2055]

Nope The Guide Stated Otherwise SS Grade 3 is x500

[@KorinIta]

Matt Pac the guides are not so much reletable

[@michaelrubino5897]

Don't trust the guides. There's no way the super saiyan multipliers are that low. Grade 1 has a multiplier of at least 200. Please watch Saiyan's Scholars video on SSJ multiplier and taste enlightenment.

[@alishabazz7431]

Cell was only playing with trunks head when he said he was stronger than him. Many facts of why Trunks wasn’t nearly as strong as cell 1. Cell was extremely suppressed. 2. We didn’t see cell’s hidden strength till he fought Goku and it was a power never felt before. 3. He didn’t go full strength until he fought Gohan. 4. When Goku showed half his strength.. that left everyone blown away which shows his grade 4 was not only faster but stronger than trunks grade 3. 5. When Goku went full power against cell even trunks and Vegeta was overwhelmed by his strength. This was before they saw how fast he was along with cell.

[@MsMRkv]

Right

[@galanakagalactus903]

Actually it's more just an anime thing. In the manga Cell doesn't gets wrecked by Trunks. You can read the manga for yourselves online.

[@cellismyfavoritedbzvillane1068]

Cell Wasn’t Even Trying Against Trunks Grade 3

[@disgruntledmanlet]

@@galanakagalactus903 in the manga Trunks never touches Cell

[@clintongillespie9895]

In Dragon Ball Multiverse toornament we see Future Trunks find a way to make the bulky form useful

[@elmostew2]

Nice video

[@G_Origin]

Amazing one here!

[@reckszkingzactivitiesrkat.4134]

Man look fuck grade 2 and grade 3 I'd rather just use the mastered super sayain form instead and when I play the dragon Ball games that's what I always intend to use over those forms anyway 👊💯. ..

[@mgmg116]

Here's why it's not: the Grades escalate SSJ Grade 1>SSJ Grade 2>SSJ Grade 3>SSJ Grade 4>SSJ Grade 5

[@joaosoares2570]

thats fan made system. grade 1 and grade 4 are the same form. what you call grade 4 is perfected SSJ but it still has the 50x multiplier just like grade 1. The only difference should be that someone who perfected SSJ should be able to use it for a longer time and more easily. Goku should still be able to go grade 2 after the HTC and still go a power boost.

[@mgmg116]

@@joaosoares2570 First you tell me that the grade system is fanon, and then you go on to explain how everything works using fanon lol. The grade system is based on the narrative - what the manga shows us, and how it stacks up is obvious. It's also obvious that SSJ isn't x50, that only happened once, and only to one person - Goku on Namek. The Daizenshuu doesn't specifically state SSJ makes you 50x stronger, it just states that this happened to be the size of the gap between base Goku and SSJ Goku, at that particular time. The Android Saga straight up proves SSJ isn't x50. And yes, it's pretty clearly shown that the mastered version of Super Saiyan is the only thing that can go toe-to-toe with Cell, with SSJ2 later being revealed. The reason I graded what we see was for the sake of ease - there ARE no graded forms, really. What we see Trunks, Vegeta, Goku, and even Gohan do, are all different versions of Super Saiyan. Only Goku and Gohan manage to grasp the concept of mastering the form, and they're the only ones who can keep up with Cell. There's an enormous power difference between when Vegeta and Trunks fight Perfect Cell (and lose) and when Goku and Gohan fight Cell, and it's even outright stated in the manga they stayed in SSJ form that whole time to conserve power so they wouldn't waste any energy transforming - because this reserve energy could just be funneled back into their power output. It's shown pretty clearly when Goku becomes exhausted after fighting Cell that mastering the SSJ form does NOT decrease energy drain or improve stamina, it just allows the form to output more power with a greater degree of control - which was the entire point, as Goku explained to Gohan in the ROSAT. While I was using fan terms to deacribe each Saiyan's different use of the SSJ form, I was describing exactly what the manga shows us - each one escalates in power, with mastered Super Saiyan being on top, at least until SSJ2 is introduced when Gohan beats Cell

[@four-en-tee]

This is operating off a lot of head canon. There's also the fact that a lot of the power scaling relating to grade 4 muddies a lot of this discussion. Grade 3 can't really stack onto grade 4 since grade 4 is built around increasing the grade 1 multiplier through mastery of the form whereas grade 3 involves trying to brute force the earlier grade 2 form (which itself is a brute force of grade 1). In other words: through effortless use of the form, Goku and Gohan can increase their output in other areas since it requires less energy to maintain the transformation which can go towards other shit during a battle. And then you have the Super Saiyan 2 multiplier on top of that. None of the characters in Dragon Ball really mastered this aside from Goku and Gohan. For all intents and purposes, Vegeta to my knowledge didn't ever obtain grade 4 after the Cell Games and has just been pushing himself through intense training. And with Future Trunks, we see him try to use grade 3 in his training with Vegeta during the Goku Black arc, which probably indicates that he hasn't ever obtained grade 4 either. This also might be why Vegeta's SSJ2 is called "Super Vegeta" since its not really a perfect SSJ2 transformation. Its just stacked on top of grade 1 super saiyan.

[@S31KO.]

*Cough* World Heavyweight Champion Deontay Wilder 😂Jokes aside though nice video, I agree.

[@RevoluShane]

Hopefully we get Wilder Vs Joshua next year lol and thanks

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

I dont believe any of this. Cell was toying with trunks and holding back significantly. He was even holding back against goku who was much stronger than trunks. Gohan beat cell in 2 shots he was not only faster but he was definitely stronger than any form of trunks.

[@ppnexus2000]

Cell was holding back bc trunks was so slow he didn't have to do anything. I think they're equal in power but ssj2 is faster

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

​@@ppnexus2000Cell took hits from trunks and they did no damage. Gohan had him on his knees with one hit.

[@djwaters8269]

Thank you it's like they just over look that

[@arronjerden915]

@@JJJJ-he8bz Watch the video, he explains that in the Manga that Trunks did not land a single blow on Cell.

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

@@arronjerden915 he knocked him into the ground multiple times dude. He not anywhere near as strong as gohan was gohan was making cell jrs explode by punching them

[@mohammadkamran966]

Yeah it is stronger but not faster which is its downfall and makes it beaten down easily and I think it consume more energy I think .🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@elpopman2055]

Flaws: 1: Ki Consumation 2: Lower Speed. 3: Stanima issues. 1 or a Few Minutes later you find yourself Growing Weaking.. In the Manga Cell was only Dodging and Trunks tired himself. Cell did not even bother to fight back. He just let Trunks tired himself out.

[@clintongillespie9895]

When he's either in a rage and or battling and when he's in the bulk form instead of his speed taking a nosedive it increases along with his brute strength and power

[@clintongillespie9895]

This day can only be achieved by doing this kind of training for a whole year Non-Stop

[@newslenderarts]

My question is it possible to put all that power into like one part of your body or into a ki blast like as your powering down can you shoot the energy out or be like all might and put all the force and strength into one hit

[@LordJesusDiedforUs]

I’m sorry but I have another question as well, what grade would legendary super saiyan be and why doesn’t he get the drawbacks?

[@firerabbit3185]

I like the video. Do you think that the ikari form that broly uses is essentially the same as grade 3 without speed defecits?

[@Power_scaling_for_fun]

No because it’s just the great ape power being used in base form so that would mean it would be a 10X multiplier

[@dbrazell4]

Good video Shane! I personally believe the best interpretation of the Spanish and French Guides is that SSJ Grade 3 Future Trunks (Post Room of Spirit and Time) is 10x stronger than SSJ Grade 1 Future Trunks (Pre Room of Spirit and Time). I think saying Grade 3 is above SSJ3 is a bit far fetched, but I do believe you have a good argument against Grade 5. I do feel Goku implies to Caulifla that Grade 5 is the next step if you want to increase power. But the Trunks and Vegeta sparring session is “irrefutable”. It’s like Toei was telling us. Trunks does power up from Grade 5 to Grade 3, implying that it’s physically stronger. However, that could also just be inflated ki, and he didn’t necessarily power up, but transforming into that stage automatically beefs you up. But it seemed more like he did power up from Grade 5 to Grade 3. Again Shane great video! I’m not sold just yet, but you did a fantastic job! Imo numbers would be; PRE ROSAT Trunks 4,800,000 SSJ 240,000,000 POST ROSAT Trunks 32,000,000 SSJ 1,600,000,000 Grade Two 2,000,000,000 Grade Three 2,400,000,000. If Grade 3 > Grade 5 then I would say Post RoSaT would be like this; Trunks 16,000,000 SSJ 800,000,000 Grade Two 1,200,000,000 Grade Three 2,400,000,000 Just my opinion.

[@dbrazell4]

@Batman The grade 4 = grade 1 as a multiplier

[@dbrazell4]

@Batman The yeah because his base is stronger.. The Super Exciting Guide flat out says ssj is 50x and ssj2 is 2x a ssj.

[@clintongillespie9895]

I think this is genius I can't believe I never thought of it

[@clintongillespie9895]

That's how Goku went from being in the Millions to the billions that and having Gohan as a training partner

[@clintongillespie9895]

And I can't believe I didn't figure this out years ago

[@rayzermaniac5218]

The way the show and the guide books made it seem, on paper, was that Super Saiyan Grade 3 was equal in power to Super Saiyan 2 but was around 75% slower. So actually slower than regular Super Saiyan and Ascended Super Saiyan (Grade 2)

[@All-Muscle]

SSJ third grade is my favorite form beside LSSJ, muscle bulk gang!💪

[@cjmuto2064]

So you're saying that just because cell or anyone else didn't disprove grade 3 is stronger than grade 4 and ssj2 that it's stronger ik you provided proof but the anime and manga proves it's weaker than grade 4 cuz Goku 50% made everyone shit themselves so no I don't believe this

[@unhingedconniption5799]

Fair point

[@clintongillespie9895]

By doing this all that energy that was once wasted on the transformation will now go to your power

[@Xiter2024]

Are you kidding me? Cell didn't even use all his strength to show that he was superior to Trunks! Against Goku, he had to use all his strength even when Goku didn't have the Super Saiyan!

[@DB78770]

So who is stronger ssj3 or grade 3?

[@jamienwatsonsupersaiyan4907]

Awesome the cool transformation of grade 3 hmm I never here of this I need to check out the manga

[@LordJesusDiedforUs]

Could trunks new rage form in super technically be grade 5? Which is just grade 2 mastered if 4 is 1 mastered

[@ojpickle5923]

Do a what if grade 3 didnt decrease speed.

[@bigevil1001]

When Cell admitted Trunks was stronger than him did he mean Stronger than my full power level? or Stronger than my current power level?

[@galanakagalactus903]

It's just an anime thing. In the manga Cell was way too fast for Trunks to do any significant damage.

[@LordJesusDiedforUs]

Btw is majin vegeta as strong as grade 3? Or a regular ssj2?

[@YamamotoKazuo]

what good is raw power without speed?

[@kidnumber1ormaybenot]

My opinion is: Super Saiyan 2 giving you more ki, speed and both offense and defense. The Super Saiyan grade 3 (or Ultra Super Saiyan for short) give the user a massively buff of muscles and ki, maybe larger than Super Saiyan 2, but it also deplete the speed which made it almost useless if fighting with an opponent has the ability to dodge even faster than Goku Full Power Super Saiyan like Cell or Janemba,...

[@lamnotafk9573]

Good opinion

[@rhett3185]

interesting explanation. ssj grade 3 might actually be useful in circumstances where your opponent is massively slower than you if you were any other grade of ssj but you just need the extra power/strength to land damaging blows that you might not be able to perform in most other grades. Take a slower yet tankier opponent, sure ss grade 2 or 4 but be able to easily blitz this opponent, but if you're not doing any feasible damage, then that speed nerf for power buff might be worth the trade-off. Especially considering the possibility that Grade 3's raw power/ki multiplier is 10x over even grade 1-2-4 making it even better than ssj2's multiplier (ascended super saiyan)

[@colx1191]

If you used grade 3 wouldnt you be able to take alot more damage?

[@clintongillespie9895]

With ultra Super Saiyan the more bulk you have the more power and brute strength you possess but it drastically kills your speed

[@penisnt]

The problem is that all the guides that include the grades, especially grade 4, say that grade 4 is the strongest and best version of Super Saiyan, and then SS2 and 3 and power ups on top of that. We also know Cell held back against Trunks, because Trunks’ power exceeds Cell’s, but then Goku SS Grade 4 at half of his power shocks and surprises Trunks, and Cell is more powerful than Goku. So Trunks surpassing Cell was clearly only because Cell held back against Trunks. So if Grade 3 Trunks is shocked by half Goku’s power, and full power Goku can’t beat Cell, and is only defeated by SS2 Gohan, then that means that SS2 is more powerful than Grade 3. The whole SS1 x2 for SS2 thing doesn’t work if you apply it to Grade 1, Grade 4 is more powerful than Grade 1, they aren’t the same multiplier, because at Grade 4 you can bring out the full limits of Super Saiyan, so all the power of all the grades prior to 4 can be brought out to the max without any downsides, and then you x2 for SS2. So based on base x50 for SS G1, then SS G2 is apparently x2 G1 based on one obscure guidebook which is the only one that gives a multiplier, and G3 is 10x that based on that Spanish guide. So Grade 3 is 1000x Grade 1, so we of course can’t do x2 to Grade 1 when we can see that SS2 is clearly the most powerful one of these, and Grade 4 is at least as strong or stronger than Grade 3, so 1000 x2 is SS2 at 2000x base.

[@TheRealNightShot]

Finally someone with a brain. Super Saiyam Grade 4 is called fucking FULL POWER Super Saiyan. It is being able to draw out ALL the power and potential of the transformation. Grade 3 is doing the same thing but your body CANNOT handle the extra power yet and so you become Hulk. Grade 3 is also defined as a form that pushes Super Saiyan to the limit. Now Grade 4 uses the form to the maximum extent. The strenght of the two forms is most likely equal, with grade 4 being able to nullify the speed and stamina drawback.

[@penisnt]

@@TheRealNightShot Exactly

[@kryptonianstrength8461]

also on top of all of that super saiyan grade 5 in deinzenshu is said to be the most powerful grade , so grade 3 cannot be stronger than grade 5 , which compliments your theory

[@mrdemiurge7680]

Grade 4 isn't more powerful Mastered ssj literally has the same multiplier of x50 base and the reason goku and Gohan as mastered ssj surpassed vegeta and trunks as ssj second and third grade is because of their different training methods Vegeta and trunks only focused on surpassing the ssj form itself making the form itself stronger Goku and Gohan did the same thing originally but they later changed their methods around and focused on improving their base forms power and improving the standard ssj form and stayed in it for longer periods of time so their body got used to it and it made their body think their ssj form was their base form Mastered ssj literally has the same x50 base multiplier but without the stamina drawbacks, better ki control, and gives the user more speed while also taking away their malicious heart and the user no longer has to be angry to turn ssj But unlike Mastered ssj, ssj second grade is said to increase the SPEED AND STRENGTH of the user and proof of this is vegeta became stronger and faster than semi perfect cell and and ssj third grade only increases strength while decreasing speed Ssj second grade is likely only x75 base or x1.5 stronger than regular ssj Proof for ssj2 and ssj third grade being most likely equal is, that ssj third grades trunks surpassed perfect cell and ssj2 Gohan also surpassed cell but the difference is trunks stated that Gohan learned to power up without the muscle mass increase and speed drawbacks but as the guy in the video states trunks using the form against ssj blue vegeta could be proof of grade 3 being stronger than ssj2 Also the only reason goku and Gohan as mastered ssjs were stronger than ssj second grade vegeta and trunks was because goku and Gohan had the stronger base power not the bigger multiplier For example if two users had the same form but one had a bigger base then the person with the bigger base would still win Because again for example if both of the users both had the ssj form but one user had a base power of 1,000,000 and the other user had a base power of 2,000,000 and they both transformed with their power multiplying by x50 their base power in their ssj form then the person with the base power of 2,000,000 in their ssj form would win because User A: who has a base power of 1,000,000 would have a ssj power level of x50,000,000 While User B: who has a base power of 2,000,000 would have a ssj power level of 100,000,000 And let's say vegeta and trunks as ssj second grade represented user A while goku and Gohan as mastered ssj represented user b And guess what that Also means it means if goku went ssj second grade against cell then he would be stronger and faster than his mastered ssj form

[@penisnt]

@@mrdemiurge7680 you really overexplained simple concepts that didn’t need to be explained like that lol. My whole point was the guidebooks state Grade 4 > Grade 3. SS2 is also stated to be the most powerful and strongest grade of Super Saiyan (this was before SS3 existed ofc) so SS2 is also > Grade 3. Trunks only used it against Vegeta to purposely anger him as he made very clear in that scene. Also as I covered in my original comment Cell lied when he said Trunks Grade 3 was stronger than him. Simply isn’t true because when Goku flexed only half his power for Korin, Trunks shat his pants. Grade 4 Goku > Grade 3 Trunks and Grade 2 Vegeta, but Grade 4 Goku wasn’t stronger than Perfect Cell. Most statements say Cell and Goku were equal, others say Cell was stronger. Either way, Perfect Cell > Grade 3 Trunks.

[@GogitoGTHD]

Not sure if you'll see this but there's one major issue with this video and theory, if Grade 3 Ssj is 10× that of Ssj1 or in other words a 500× multiplier which surpasses Ssj3's multiplier, or is at least >Ssj2, Vegeta could have and would have used such a massively powerful form and multiplier during his self destruction and would have successfully killed Majin Buu, in all honesty, Cell saying Trunks in Grade 3 is "stronger than him" can be true, but he can also be suppressed and his statement would still be true but would only apply to his suppressed self.

[@heltongomez8865]

SS2 is stronger because it requires you to channel all that power without any muscle increase and speed loss. Therefore, anyone who is capable of channeling and controlling that much energy is already much stronger than anyone who tries to use their power recklessly like grade 3. I don’t think you understand that being able to channel that much power is already a feat on its own. Goku and Gohan achieved a power greater than Trunks and Vegeta in grade 3 and they were even able to achieve that power by training their bodies to withstand that much energy without any muscle increase, meaning that Goku and Gohan’s training is 100x better than anything Trunks and Vegeta did in the time chamber

[@atari_hmb]

Here's the issue. If Grade 2 is stronger, and faster than Grade 1. Then it is clearly above a 50x multiplier. Grade 4 exceeds grade 2 by an amazing margin as implicated by Vegeta in Kai, and the manga. So this is important because we don't know the strength gap between Grade 3 and Grade 4, as even Trunks and Vegeta believed Goku was much stronger. Furthermore, Cell surprised Trunks and Vegeta when he went full power, so you can argue that pre-tourney Perfect Cell was a weaker, or fresh off the boat. This is consistent with Kai as well, which is canon to the manga. Vegeta states Cell is 1,000x stronger than Goku, of course maybe not literally (but it is dragon ball). And Goku also damages cell, and tires him out...unlike Trunks nor Vegeta's final flash. As shown Gohan SSJ2 Trunks states he did it without losing strength, so you could argue it is AS STRONG as SSJ2, but to say stronger... I don't know man. Another factor is that the manga came out decades before the guides, so any literature changes and such is hard to consider since both material are canon. In my humble opinion, I would argue SSJ2 is more like a 500x increase of base if we account for the statistics and missing variables. This isn't the Bible, we can't assume that all sources have to fit around one conclusion, that'd be circular reasoning. DB is flawed in a lot of cases, so it's hard to match everything together, but tell me your thoughts furthermore, I love the video nonetheless, and would never dislike it.

[@galaxystudios370]

Fair points, but there’s one thing I have to point out. You didn’t take base power increases into account.

[@atari_hmb]

@@galaxystudios370 True, but base power is not a factor as Goku and Gohan specifically trained the SSJ form alone; not their base.

[@clintongillespie9895]

Right at the moment of his attack hitting for additional attack power

[@facundomorera9762]

My theory is this: A very trained ss goes to grade 3 when powering up to 100%. A ss that has mastered the form to the point that it becomes a second base form goes to grade 4 when powering up to 100%. Vegeta says this. The difference is how much power the body can sustain, the training goku and gohan did allowed them to go full power without any drawbacks. When it becomes a new base form, you transform again, but this time is ss2.

[@zamasu973]

Grade 3 is like the Megaevolution for Garchomp. Useless because it makes you stronger but slower.

[@t1h_tvj212]

What you forgot to realize is super saiyan 2 is super saiyan grade 5 so super saiyan grade 5 already has the strength of grade 3 as well as the multiplication of grade 4 and 5

[@t1h_tvj212]

Each grade already takes the multiplication of the previous grades that’s like saying when u turn super saiyan 2 you lose the multiplayer of super saiyan which is just wrong

[@pinkfrosteddonut1915]

I always see these kinds of videos in my sections and I love how you try to prove wrongs facts. Ssj 2 is 2x ssj ssj grade 3 is 1.25x ssj

[@dynamis5554]

the ssj Dai San Dankai is x10 times stronger (only stronger) than an SSJ, therefore it has more strength (only more physical strength) than an SSJ3

[@clintongillespie9895]

Here are the levels of mastering Super Saiyan and extending the Super Saiyan 2

[@chungus1149]

Man... Cell saga was really the last time ssj was interesting and worth talking about. All the different forms could have been used to give characters the ability to put their own spin on the ssj transformation, which would have been sick

[@gokufuckssuperman7274]

here we go again

[@crimsonking4151]

I always thought this form would be the perfect heavy artillery form. It’s weakness are in H2H but you could spam so Ki blasts overpowered ppl in beam clashing make big energy balls. Why rely on H2H when you can just stand your ground zone pole out with powerful heavy Ki attack and make yourself virtually unapproachable? Just a thought/ head canon

[@Norozuki]

I wonder if SSGSS also have grades?

[@clintongillespie9895]

Become a Super Saiyan like it's second nature no effort whatsoever

[@dbrazell4]

Why didn’t you take this a step further. If we base that 10x line the way you say, and use Trunks vs Vegeta as a reference point, then presumably Grade 3 should be physically stronger than SSJ3 as well. I don’t believe that by any stretch, and I believe what Goku said to Caulifla about going for SSJ2 next that Grade 5 is physically greater than Grade 3 in terms of power

[@clintongillespie9895]

Instead of bulking up the whole body trunks what bulk up certain parts of his body

[@clintongillespie9895]

Instead of bulking up the entire body bulk up certain points of the body for attacking and defending

[@powerlevelguy8054]

Hey Shane, one of the most important pieces of evidence we have on Grade 3's strength is how strong Goku got with it during his RoSaT training. Gohan seems to have caught up to Goku and Goku hasn't seemingly made any tremendous gains as of yet while still pondering how he will go beyond Super Saiyan. When he discovers the Grade forms, he ends up surpassing even Semi-Perfect Cell, who can tank Android 16, who can tank Piccolo's Light Grenade. This is a HUGE mountain to scale and Goku is able to do it with his Grade 3 form. Super Saiyan 2 was never suggested to be this large of a boost and before we ever get to Super we already have solid evidence suggesting Grade 3 > Ssj2.

[@RevoluShane]

Really good points

[@powerlevelguy8054]

@@RevoluShane Thank you brother, I would love to discuss some interesting topics with you. Do you have Discord or what forums do you frequent?

[@clintongillespie9895]

This is shown in the movie because Broly's energy is constantly Rising more and more then usual Beyond his control

[@clintongillespie9895]

The only reason this works for Broly Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan his energy is always increasing

[@clintongillespie9895]

It is a form of complete rage and agitation there is no talking to you the best thing you can do is take the punishment until he calms down

[@clintongillespie9895]

But as trunks bulk up the form muscles more and more his speed started to take a nosedive

[@DarkOps4]

I-isn’t ssj2 just Grade 3 with speed?...

[@Thugzz77]

No its not man

[@kingofrage3935]

Yes but strong

[@Sqautter]

can you do a xeno gogeta video how strong he is

[@thegreatguldo9956]

Maybe its possible for a saiyan to master the form and can not be slow

[@chadthomas7820]

I have just went back to this saga goku said him and gohan can still basically transform into that stage but with buffing up there muscles because they need speed and control and that's what vegeta and trunks started doing during their fight with the cell jr's goku and and gohan reached what they ben called super saiyan 1 level 4 because they had power and speed balanced perfectly when gohan reached super saiyan 2 plus his anger and rage his powers were 100x the power ssj level 2 and 3 combine into level 4 gives a user I really wish db history would have took the time to do this to all forms especially super saiyan 2 and super saiyan 3 and then super saiyan god red then a eventually super saiyan blue and evolution. Also I for to add perfect cell was basically saying that super trunks lvl 3 was stronger than that current lvl he was at because cell was holding back all the way until his fight with goku plus cell even showed trunks his own super cell form which he was bigger then trunks he was looking like like ssj lvl 5 or 6 especially against gohan

[@clintongillespie9895]

And that includes bulking the poem up constantly

[@Ethan-md5do]

I already knew that grade 3 super sayin is stronger that super sayin 2 but is much slower because of the muscles they are too big I already new that

[@LordJesusDiedforUs]

I’m late asf if this is the case however why didn’t vegeta go grade 3 first then use the final flash. If we know for a fact he had it, that power should’ve been more than enough to erase cell even with his regeneration

[@konodiiego1332]

Regular super saiyan is x50 and so is mastered but mastered ssj is like a base form keeping the same non aggressive nature while becoming 50x stronger

[@thickboi7988]

I thought people knew this ssj grade 3 has more power and ssj2 is stromger but without the major loss in stamina

[@alishabazz7431]

No it’s not. At all by a long shot

[@clintongillespie9895]

This is why I think it should be called Mastered Super Saiyan Full power Super Saiyan OR Mastered full power Super Saiyan

[@clintongillespie9895]

That's why he stuck with super Saiyan and decided the home that even more

[@cosmicarmorcellamatsuphobi1151]

Do you think if cell absorbed Krillen like in a old db game, do you think cell would turn good and replace Krillen, no idea if 18 would be with him but I think the z warriors would wish Krillen back, I think cell would still try too gain perfection but maybe Krillen's personality would be dominant

[@RevoluShane]

It would definitely be a turn of events, in the manga if Super the Cell jrs still exist! So who knows

[@cosmicarmorcellamatsuphobi1151]

@@RevoluShane good point, I think it would be a great idea for xenoverse or one of the game's too bring back, I loved playing as that cell.

[@Thugzz77]

@@RevoluShane ssj2 is stronger than ssjg3 because it encrease strength yes but not that alot of strength like ssj2 and mastered ssj

[@florianwarin3540]

Idk of you showed the right image but the french version actually never state that the super sayan grade 3 is ten times stronger than the super sayan, at least not on the page you showed

[@clintongillespie9895]

And right before Vegeta would hit him trunks with bulk up that part that he would hit for added defense

[@clintongillespie9895]

Super Saiyan 2 is basically the perfected version upgrades 2 and 3

[@rocklobster4459]

Grade 3 is literally the strength of Ssj2 without the speed. That's why goku doesn't even try it during Perfect Cell. (Good point tho)

[@ExtacyMusic1128]

No it isn’t

[@jshaw3793]

It's equal to super saiyan 2 or A Pre Super Saiyan 3

[@calebcorenza685]

I will say if the masterd super saiyan form does have a increase over the og 50 times multiplyer I will say I would put it at like 60 or 70 times base power

[@dellbridge7412]

So Super Saiyan Grade 3 without the drawbacks would be a nigh perfect form.

[@dynamis5554]

If the third grade SSJ increased all aspects and did not slow down the warrior, it would be more effective than using the SSJ3.

[@dellbridge7412]

@@dynamis5554 It definitely could be far more useful than SSJ3. I like your thinking.

[@clintongillespie9895]

Super Saiyan 2 all the increased brute strength and raw power and incredible speed

[@Nogahsaba]

What is super saiyan 3 is a perfect form for super saiyan grade 3 🤔🤯

[@bigevil1001]

One thing I always wondered: Is Super Saiyan Grade 3 slower than Grade 2?

[@guytheincognito4186]

Yes, it's bulkier form and hulking muscles holds back ones speed more so than grade 2. Grade 2 doesn't lose that much speed compared to it's strength though so compared to regular SS1, it's faster. Grade 3 and SS1 is probably close in speed though SS1 due to lack of bulk still out manouvers grade 3 in a fight due to the lack of bulk. So grade 2 is the best form of the three grades untill 1 is mastered and is ascended to 4, which is also known as Super Saiyan full power. Followed by Super Saiyan 2 being a 2 times multiplication on grade 4. P.s. Super Saiyan Full power in terms of Goku and co should be mistaken with Brolys Super Saiyan Full power, which is a different form in itself, possibly even a different branch(what people tend to call C-Type Super saiyan) Have a good day.)

[@guytheincognito4186]

@Batman The Sorry but "no it doesn't" doesn’t refer to anything specific I pointed out. Nor does it merit a rebutal of anything I've said.

[@guytheincognito4186]

@Batman The As for the question the op stated the answer is yes it is as it's a strength boost mostly with little else to it. Grade 2 is faster due to lacking the heavy bulk of grade 3. It was explicitly stated that grade 3 is much to slow to hit anything that it's power boost was worthless. It's directly why Vegeta Never used it.

[@guytheincognito4186]

@Batman The Yes you do. Goku said exactly what I said to Gohan in the time chamber when demonstrating each grade while explaining how each work. The very obvious fact you didn't immediately get this per Vegeta's usage of grade 2 despite having grade 3 aswell as not knowing that Goku himself directly states these things and when, tells me you're no true fan of the show as obviously you cut out all the show and jumped from fight to fight with no passion for it in a real sense etc like I've seen others do on YT..

[@guytheincognito4186]

@Batman The You do. DBZ Ep 160 or 162, Goku speaks to Gohan about the grades and the inherent speed reduction of grade 3, which is also pointed out in the official Daizenchu guides the graded forms appear in. In regards to the original Brolys legendary state, it was long discussed that Brolys lack of a speed reduction despite the immense bulk of muscle was likely due to the legendary state itself. A feat none of the regular super saiyan could replicate before abandoning boosting muscle mass all together and going for speed and energy maintaining over power in reaching grade 4 then subsequently super saiyan 2.

[@Technosapien1213]

Ssj Grade 3 is just the form sayains use to attract Sayain Chicks. 😏😏