Why The Electron Rocket May Be Cheapest Way To Get To Space

Yesterday Rocket Labs successfully launched their Electron rocket into orbit carrying test satellites. The Electron is small cheap rocket which uses a 3D Printed engine, Electrically driven pumps and composite fuel tanks. All features which are new to orbital launch vehicles.
All the videos are to be found on Rocket Labs youtube page
/ @rocketlabnz

[@PMakerYT]

Their control room looks perfect for a LAN party.

[@jort93z]

i thought that was a lan party for a second. Since they all wore logitech headsets as well.

[@jort93z]

Well, if you've ever seen a counterstrike tournament, theres 2 teams. each teammember is sitting next to eachother and the team you play against is on the oppostie site.

[@thelittlestmig3394]

It could be it all started after someone took KSP on a lanparty.

[@laughingcheeze8566]

I wonder if their communicating via a private discord server? That would be amazing.

[@quazar5017]

Launching rockets with 7.1 surround sound!

[@The_world_is_not_worthy_of_Him]

Rocket Lab names their rockets like I name mine in KSP

[@camicus-3249]

"Untitled Spacecraft"?

[@Marc83Aus]

Exploder I, Exploder II, Exploder III, etc.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

Their next will be More testing Even more test This is not a test

[@bencockerill42]

Who commented this first, me or you? Both say 4 hours.

[@katrinal353]

test, test2, asdflkhasfa, urmum, urmum2, test test, super pooper scooper, quik mafs, test test test, test123, mr rocket, test321, asdfasdf, boom. These are only some of the best models the modern space industry has to offer.

[@Eliphas_Leary]

That kiwi launch site looks suspiciously kerbal.

[@damstachizz]

Gaming headsets, kerbin launch site, KSP rocket style names... These guys designed a full size rocket and forgot kerbin isn't to earth scale.

[@BosonCollider]

Even the bird sounds remind me of Kerbin.

[@spartanjackwar]

There is only one way to tell if it is truly a Kerbal situation: release the Danny2462!

[@beaconrider]

Is there anything that does not look kerbal to you?

[@nickthompson3983]

Stop! You're giving the flat eathers "scientific evidence" on how NASA isn't real!!!!!

[@GurniHallek]

I'm looking forward to their next creation - "Autosaved Untitled Spacecraft"

[@miniatureben3558]

LOL

[@WwZa7]

> Develop the cheapest engine > Spend the money on gaming headsets for everyone

[@camicus-3249]

They don't have to be high end ones though. I'm pretty sure other space agencies have use much more expensive ones

[@Morrigi192]

Pretty sure those headsets cost about $40 on Amazon. They're not all that expensive.

[@spartanjackwar]

I've seen those headsets for less even. Definitely the quite-cheap ones that serve their purpose.

[@floobertuber]

Can't expect 'em to operate without any headsets at all. Personally I find it a refreshing difference that SOMEBODY knows how to pinch pennies... as opposed to the US Government, which seems to have invented several brand-new orifices, specifically for the purpose of hemorrhaging our "limitless" tax dollars.

[@cod6guy12]

They bought the headsets off Tyler1

[@Shadow_Fingered]

The real question here is how many Kiwi's can it launch into space at once? Everyone knows they all dream of flying.

[@billohsnap5418]

genius

[@medic8377]

Kiwis: 1/10th the mass of kerbals.

[@TheGenSmit]

Jason Edwards if you can fit a kiwi into a 10x10x10cm space then about 13. Unless the payload specifications have changed on me.

[@bohlin01]

I think that depends on what you mean by kiwi

[@Shadow_Fingered]

I mean the New Zealand bird, the kiwi

[@bencockerill42]

They sound like my KSP rockets: its_a_test.craft still_testing.craft

[@cachotognax3600]

I don't think that it's too far to say that half these guys played ksp.

[@Biped]

teeeeeessttt.craft

[@namefinder]

third_time_the_charm.craft maybe_gets_to_orbit_now.craft please_be_good.craft I_hate_gravity.craft etc.

[@6105boe]

lol_this_will_never_work.craft and then it's the first thing that gets to orbit... ;)

[@rufo]

struts_added.craft more_boosters.craft

[@moosemaimer]

Mount the lithium batteries in an engine bell and pump in oxidizer when they're depleted. Free delta-V!

[@Fabi33677]

im looking at you, Lithium fluorine hydrogen propellant :P

[@lukedare-white3131]

Make the rocket out of batteries!

[@UpLateGeek]

They could collaborate with Samsung; apparently they're experts at making batteries that combust!

[@quazar5017]

Put a solar panel on top! :P Or power the rocket by radiothermoelectric generators! :D

[@laughingcheeze8566]

I like where your going with this.

[@oscarbristow1763]

rocket scientists using gaming headsets. its beautiful, I might cry...

[@lolmandos]

can't blame them, i have the same headset, it's pretty good

[@imthefuckinglizardking4590]

Didn't NASA use headsets for Apollo?

[@-danR]

@@imthefuckinglizardking4590 not _gaming_ headsets, no. In fact there _were_ no gaming accessories in those days.

[@GewelReal]

@@imthefuckinglizardking4590 those were purposely made just for NASA

[@anzaca1]

You know you've made it when NASA is giving you launch contracts.

[@toolmanthetim7042]

with the rate of progress on SLS, nasa will give a contract to Matel soon, pilot will be Buzz Lightyear

[@skyrocket586]

Proud kiwi here! I also work for the company who manufactures a number of the components for Electron including the mandrels for those epic carbon fuel tanks! So amazing to see a successful launch!

[@donkey8116]

As a Kiwi, thanks for this video Scott. Most of the world keeps leaving us off their maps, for some reason. :(

[@vibe6750]

Don Key well know you can send your own gps to space so you will be on map. Now srs congrats for you New Zealanders for have an orbital rocket. Congrat from isreal (we can send thing to orbit with shavit)

[@ginganutjob]

Joe H the same flag we already had

[@donkey8116]

Yup. we kept the old one, and the idiot that wanted to change is saw the writing on the wall, retired... and now, his Government is no more and we are all very VERY happy (as well as keeping the old flag, 96% wanted to keep it I think)

[@iCapybara]

From Australia, congrats to NZ for embarrassing us once again. We need to lift. At least we're good at test cricket, I 'spose.

[@donkey8116]

Really? We did not know that, I suppose you have to be good at something... Aussie WAS good at under arm bowling... once upon a time.... :) Seriously... "nuthin but love for ya, man..." ANZAC's ROCK! :)

[@ConsciousAtoms]

What amazes me is that Electron is about the same size and mass as the V2 rocket. While V2 was a short range rocket with a range of about 300 km, Electron makes it all the way to orbit. Humanity has come a long way in rocket technology.

[@cogoid]

Vanguard rocket that launched the second American satellite in 1958 had the same launch weight. But the satellite mass was only 9 kg. It is kind of funny that modern nano-sats are about the same size and mass as the early American satellites -- though now they pack vastly superior sensors and electronics.

[@n-wordjim1724]

300 km? This rocket doesn't even go that far before it stops. It's not a long way into space. The atmosphere is but a sheet.

[@facepalm7345]

@@n-wordjim1724 technically the rocket travels a near infinite distance, using the advantage of a second engine to make a full continuous orbit. If they lay it on the side im sure it'll go a lot further than 300 km, going upwards is far more expensive than going sideways

[@facepalm7345]

@Saraneth original comment was about range of V2 rocket, in distance relative to the ground.

[@facepalm7345]

@Saraneth well it's just a physics thing, going sideways is a lot easier, because all you're fighting against is air resistance. Rising in height requires a lot more energy to be spent in just fighting the earth's gravity, as well as the transition into horizontal velocity in order to reach orbit speeds. I dont really think they're in the same ballpark

[@sandwich2473]

I like how they're using gaming headsets. It's almost like an improv e-sports event.

[@Morrigi192]

I mean, they're good, reasonably robust headsets and they're fairly cheap. I got mine for $40.

[@Mrjumperdude01]

Possibly even free for them as look at all this publicity.

[@WiboN]

You need that heavy bass when the rocket launches. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[@RAFMnBgaming]

like? Launching rockets shout absolutely be an e-sport.

[@MrRoadWorrier]

@@WiboN All your bass are belong to us

[@kevin5073]

The launch site is literally just up the road from where I live and have been lucky to see a couple of launches so far.

[@SidewinderScience]

Man this really makes me want to start building rockets again.

[@sixstringedthing]

Maybe just chill on that specific impulse dude... At least until the Grant thing blows over... ;)

[@bzqp2]

Cody, sorry for the offtop, but is there any chance for that you prepare YBCO someday? It's damn cool. If you cool it.

[@theophrastusbombastus8019]

Precious Metal Refining #103: Extracting platinum from lunar KREEP

[@tm8053]

Yess plz

[@nzoomed]

I live in New Zealand and i have lots of fun building my own black powder rockets!

[@lawrencedoliveiro9104]

And you have explained, in less than 6 minutes, more than I have been able to gather from the local TV news reports (both channels).

[@matthewstuart2054]

TV? What’s that? Never mind, I’ll go to the museum and find out. 😜

[@Psycorde]

It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it

[@UpcycleElectronics]

White Void Once you go all black you never go back

[@lazarusmagellan2367]

lmaooo

[@longlostwraith5106]

The correct phrase is: "It's not *only* the size that matters, it's also how you use it."

[@M12Howitzer]

yeah ))) a typical saying of tiny-posessers ))

[@ELYESSS]

But if you have a bigger rocket you can put more on top of it.

[@WarpedPerception]

I just did an episode on Electric breakers and now you on Electric rockets ... Lol, awesome vid as always Scott !!

[@Kni0002]

Lol Funny how New Zealand is starting to launch rockets and Australia has not bothered with rockets since the UK stopped launching rockets

[@deanfawcett7113]

Australia - not bothering with value-adding since day dot, sadly.

[@suitofflesh]

Give it time, it's another thing they can try claim off us 😂

[@LockeRobsta]

Damn right. If there's one thing we Australians are good at its taking something New Zealand has done and loudly claim we do it better.

[@PhallacEye]

We aren't interested in it unless the Chinese pay us to be; or the US tells us to be.

[@aquilarossa5191]

Tell the Aussies that they need rockets to monitor the boat people and they will demand the government makes it happen asap. A leaky boat arrives with a dozen poor brown people on it and plenty of Australians lose their sh!t and call it an invasion. Suckers for Murdoch's tabloid headlines like so many Brits. Yes, i am a Kiwi.

[@bryn6118]

What!?! I live in the north island and i didnt even know we had rockets.. ):

[@benlodge6119]

Old Mate I live in the south and I only recently found out, would have been awesome to see

[@alexbillingham9593]

turn that frown upside down. you have rockets!!! :D

[@lawrencedoliveiro9104]

To be fair, it’s at the emptier end of the North Island. /me says hi from just about the centre of population of the entire country.

[@hicktownguy2]

i know what you mean mate, i lived up north years ago, we didnt get the sunday newspaper till monday, thats how slow news travels up their in the wops

[@obsgr1]

They wanted to have a launch location near Christchurch, it is now out in Mahia, in the Hawkes Bay. They can launch every 72 hours too..

[@adamblakeslee5301]

"Test Rocket Please Ignore" But really, we had Boeing declare rivalry with Space X and now Rocket Labs enters the race? The space industry is getting complicated.

[@remliqa]

Still waiting for Blue Origin to really enters the fray.

[@sixstringedthing]

"Exciting". I think you mean "exciting". :) remliqa, yeah wanna see what those BE4 engines can do!

[@danielziltener7195]

Well, let's see how many fail. A Swiss company already failed. Apparently it was kinda dodgy, but nonetheless sad, since I'm Swiss and would've loved to see some space stuff being launched from near me.

[@daos3300]

i thin k we can also safely call ARCA a fail

[@speedbird1598]

ULA only continues to exist because they have our government wrapped around their finger. Classic example of the military industrial complex abusing our tax dollars

[@crazy8sdrums]

Great job New Zealand! Lots of great ideas put into those rockets and with such a small budget! I suspect there will be much success shared by the team!

[@wingy200]

Another Scott Manley video that restores a little faith in humanity.

[@NeverTalkToCops1]

+Wingy Well, maybe, maybe not. You might want to review my sarcastic posts here.

[@ryconroleplays]

NZ represent!

[@shingletop1099]

i didn't expect to see you here cool!

[@rabidL3M0NS]

Whaka yeah!

[@ripplegaming7393]

Nz ftw, I live in auckland pretty close to these rockets ;)

[@addisonlane1041]

will have to come up from the Kapiti coast at least once to see one of these launches

[@ryconroleplays]

adam lane totally I plan to drive down sometime

[@TheGenSmit]

I just helped do a promotional video for this class of rockets and I'm very excited about the implications of them. Basically if you want a small payload to get into space than this is your ride. It gets the payload cost down to about $50,000 per a cubesat which is enough for much smaller groups to get something into space.

[@ITTechHead]

Rocketlab, not only reached orbit on their 2nd launch, but also deployed 3 satellites into 290x530km orbit, then they carried out a another stage 2 burn to deploy another payload at 500km circular orbit.

[@jaydnjaydnjaydn3259]

Being a new Zealander myself and also being a huge space nerd this is awesome news

[@nathanaelvetters2684]

It's a truly beautiful rocket. Shiny black, beautiful, clean-looking rocket plume, awesome looking swirly trails.

[@nathanaelvetters2684]

gtq838 they didn't paint it at all, anywhere. That would be a waste. It's made of carbon fiber, so it's black to begin with. It wasn't considered to be worth it to paint it white, and half of it ends up being white anyway because of all the ice that deposits over the LOX tanks.

[@donjones4719]

@@nathanaelvetters2684 And it makes a great visual aid to illustrate the size and placement of LOX tanks, and how cold they are.

[@wfobeor]

We should name the next rocket Rockety McRocketface

[@floobertuber]

And don't forget to paint a smiley face atop it, facing directly away from the Earth!

[@alexsmirnov8846]

I just want to say thank you because you helped me and many others enjoy the game a lot more by providing simple tutorials like how to dock and others. I now built a shuttle somewhat by myself that actually works with the exception of a few hiccups. So I just wanted to thank you for making the game enjoyable

[@Skythedragon]

This is probably the coolest rocket I've seen in my opinion

[@alexsiemers7898]

Now we'll need the neutron rocket

[@catsviral8309]

Alex Siemers lol

[@hydrochloricacid2146]

Which will be free of charge. Price/kg =∞

[@theclephane2914]

And it will kill every one as the neutrons are deadly!

[@anthonyc4138]

@@hydrochloricacid2146 lol

[@guenffer]

you predicted the future

[@BrokenSet]

Ah yeah, boys. New Zealand making me happy once again. The Silver Fern looks so damn cool.

[@travcollier]

Who doesn't (generally) love the Kiwis? And yeah, the Silver Fern is cool.

[@mistenfury]

It's "now" an American "registered" company. It was started in NZ and it's CEO/CTO is still a NZ'er, I'd call that a NZ company.

[@addisonlane1041]

iPhones are made in China doesn't make it a Chinese company, sure this could not have been done without American financial help, but for a country of less than 5 million people this is dam amazing

[@SpiffingNZ]

There's always someone who can't let New Zealand keep its wins.

[@SkysurvCoNz]

Aston no, its a New Zealand company through and through, started, funded and staffed mainly by kiwis. There is a US involvement due to their clients, and the fact the launch approval and orbit placement is run in the US for those contracts. There is a collaboration here, much like how if the US want to get people into space its now via Kazakhstan. But if you did some research you may have found this out - Sorry to disappoint you. (just to add further salt, NZ flew before the states as well)

[@antonrockoboac8711]

one of the most underrated things about some crappy gaming headsets is while theyre bad for professional voice quality in the superficial way the voice isolation is practical for communicating which is why theyre good for gaming but not letsplays and junk

[@willsander6734]

Hi Scott I just wanted to say I throughly enjoy your vids and hope you keep it the good work!

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

Gaming headsets. Once gaming headsets started to be a thing, I always wondered how clear com and telex stayed in business.

[@12Lego12ts]

From now on I have to wear mine every time when I launch a rocket in KSP. To be as "realistic" as possible :D

[@that_llama_in_a_tuxedo4584]

Aviation headsets most likely since I doubt Logitech or Corsair is going to make gamer branded headsets for pilots.

[@GrubbyZebra]

They really went cheap on them too, I have that exact headset ($25, completely analog, unshielded, sidetone is a bit annoying because it is an unintentional byproduct of the design.)

[@emperorarthur882]

By not being pieces of crap. I had a similar (or same) headset to what they're using and upgraded. It didn't let me hear the room, was uncomfortable if worn for any decent length of time, had mediocre at best sound quality, and the mic was crap. Specifically, the microphone was omnidirectional and, being solid plastic, picked up sounds from the headphone speakers. So it would pick up not just my keyboard, but also any time anyone else on the line was talking. Oh, and I wouldn't trust those things to last as long in a work environment. If your company has a 5 year outlook, spending $25 every 6 months is more expensive than spending $200 up front.

[@SherrifOfNottingham]

My experience with both clear com and telex is that they're low quality with a few features built into the system. But to be honest I just jacked in a set of Logitech's to the clearcom box and it was a hell of a lot better. Telex's headset mounted hotkeys is pretty much the only feature most gaming headsets aren't going to mimic, but the mic quality on those suck too. Hell the corsair headset I have now is cheaper and way more comfortable. To be honest you're not getting what you pay for, setting up a teamspeak with the Logitech series with the PTT on the side of the headset was seriously a cheaper system to set up and provided... "clearer" coms. I'm serious when I say, I don't understand how they stay in business, they sell like the way macs sell for being video editing computers, it's just the way things are done at the professional level and like most show biz everybody aspires to be like the pro's. Oh yeah, and the Teamspeak besides being free, the headsets were cheap compared to the $200 price tag, and they easily lasted more than 6 months, we had them for 3 years and the only reason they were getting replaced was because either damage which would have required a replacement of the $200 one, or at the 3 year mark it was more of a desire for new ones with new styles and features. the 200 dollar ones would have to last 12 years to be a good price comparison, and that doesn't include the costs of the clear com system, where a bunch of thin client computers running team speak and other show applications is still much cheaper since you just use the existing Ethernet lines running through the facility, or hell wifi.

[@aturnip5315]

Very informative. Great video.

[@rgurgel]

Nice explanation Scott.. Love it, as always !!!

[@StudioAddidas]

Love ur videos lately! Boosters, then this. It is awesome Scott! :)

[@seb.brailsford]

Brill video enjoyed it well done Scott

[@r3xmundi1]

Thanks for showcasing my home country :)

[@landynhigh]

when i watched this livestream, I thought of you Scott and how you would do a nice followup vid. Really like how you do these types of vids and the content you produce. THANKS SCOTT!!

[@namefinder]

Well done Rocket Labs! Also: the black rocket looks stylish, so getting bonus points for that ;-)

[@benrobertson1255]

*RocketLab. Drop the S. It's not SpaceXs, Blue Origins, Virgin Orbits, Orbital ATKs, Boeings, ULAs and it's not RocketLabs! It's RocketLab! (I'm just copying and pasting this in reply to anyone that makes this mistake, I'm starting a movement!)

[@alexlandherr]

Fascinating rocket indeed!

[@andrewkovnat]

Indeeeed.

[@cogoid]

Vanguard in 1958 was able to put in orbit only 9 kg. (The second American satellite) It is pretty amazing what modern technology allows to achieve with the rocket of the same mass!

[@theramblingbrit4431]

New Zealand may be small, but it is mighty

[@benrobertson1255]

I like to think that proportionally to the size of the country it's launched from then Electron is the biggest rocket ever (Haven't actually done the math, might just be a big but not biggest)!!!!!

[@bistromathics6]

Awesome. So good to see continued, competitive innovation and progress in engines and tanks!

[@AlexanderOsias]

Cubesats! Awesome things; heard about it first on Planet Money podcast... thanks for all this, Scott!

[@leeterthanyou]

What's the difference between Rocket Labs and Blue Origin? About 24,404 km/h.

[@marcospiazza2961]

Eddie Mercury If Spacex is 1, Rocket lab is 1/5 and Blue Origin id 1/50

[@iCapybara]

Ouch

[@jshepard152]

Hilarious

[@fionasherleen]

Most countries 5-10 years away, blue origin, 20.

[@HailAnts]

So lithium batteries have made their way from toy helicopters to autonomous drones and now finally to rockets!

[@glenlawler3579]

Thanks for the great video.

[@jasonbutton3342]

Great effort Rocket Labs, Hi from New Zealand

[@muskyelondragon]

The Electron Rocket is going to start an affordable space revolution. They won't be able to build enough of them.

[@jort93z]

The team from rocket labs looks pretty promising to me.

[@benrobertson1255]

*RocketLab. Drop the S. It's not SpaceXs, Blue Origins, Virgin Orbits, Orbital ATKs, Boesings, ULAs and it's not RocketLabs! It's RocketLab!

[@waynerussell6401]

I believe some of them are from the winning NZ Americas Cup team. Lot of experience in software and carbon fibre fabricating, aerodynamics, etc.

[@HiyuMarten]

Congrats Rocket Lab! ^_^

[@mikicerise6250]

Woot. Way to go, Kiwis. 🤘

[@vasiliykryuchkov7130]

5 millions per 250 kg for leo orbit with Electron compared to the 70 millions per 6300 kg with Proton. Sounds like the comparison of personal car and the city bus. You get the comfort of being alone and go when and where you want but have to pay the double.

[@ZaphodHarkonnen]

GO NEW ZEALAND!!! ^_^ That's my quota for nationalism filled for the day. :p Still feels crazy knowing some kiwis have now built an orbital launch company that operates from NZ.

[@Dovahkiir96]

Rocket lab is a US aerospace manufacturer with a New Zealand subsidiary. But still an NZ first

[@ZaphodHarkonnen]

caleb willan First founded in NZ by kiwis. Moved engine manufacturing and headquarters to the US for various reasons. The rocket body, avionics, and all other non engine stuff is done in NZ. ;)

[@benrobertson1255]

It was registered as a company in the US to take advantage of funding opportunities and to make it easier for US customers, you don't really have a choice in that regard when founding an aerospace company. I wish the media would stop referring to RocketLab as 'US-based aerospace company RocketLab' when it's really 'New Zealand founded and operated company RocketLab'. The engine manufacturing does take place in the US for what I'd assume to take advantage of more specialist supply chains that don't yet exist in NZ and to legitimise them as a US company for the advantages I mentioned above.

[@benrobertson1255]

How does 3D printing parts in the US and then building a rocket in New Zealand count as manufactured in the US? How does being founded in New Zealand, having mission control in New Zealand, launching from New Zealand and being designed by New Zealanders count as an American company owned by a foreigner? Sound like you're a little butthurt that private enterprise is capable of functioning in other countries too. Like I said it's registered as a US company to take advantage of holes the US has available, you mad that us Kiwis are taking you for a ride now?

[@johnbrown9181]

@John Doe So the Atlas V is a Russian rocket, because it uses the RD-180?

[@slapacow8121]

Props to them! They pulled it off!

[@vincebagusauskas278]

Damn those geeky bros!!!! Excellent work

[@Arsagon26]

I love seeing this when I grew up I though that humanity had checked going to space and rockets off of a big checklists of achievements with no need of new innovation just put a fewuseful satelites in orbit every now and then and maybe one or two somewhere else every now and thn it seemed boring. Now we have companies developig and improving rockets. We have cubesats which allow universities to test their own satelites and Ideas. Wehave people talk about going to Mars and all that. We have people staying up to watch a rocket launch (and landing!!) it´s just so damn cool that this is happening

[@carso1500]

Arsagon26 now we have the most powerful and cost efective rocket in current times and plans to return to the moon in a year or two

[@zapfanzapfan]

Ahh, those were battery packs... I was wondering what fell off halfway to orbit, I thought it was a couple of cubesats that got ejected early :-)

[@dff1286]

Thank you for the interesting update. This is exciting news.

[@ExploringCabinsandMines]

Great job !

[@Bryan-Hensley]

Even though the batteries aren't as energy dense, wonder how much weight is lost by not having the hardware (plumbing, valves, impeller, ect) needed to run the non electric turbo pumps? Of course you have the electric motor to add to the weight loss differences.

[@johnbrown9181]

This is a big point when you have a small rocket. Something like the RD-170 family probably doesn't have this issue due to the economy of scale with a larger rocket and a single turbopump, but it seems like an excellent idea for a small rocket/engine.

[@MichaelCarper2]

Since they use an electric motor to pressurize the fuel could they run the rocket to full depletion? I know this isn't possible with a normal rocket engine due to the turbo pumps spinning up out of control once the tanks are depleted.

[@Graham.556]

Im so happy for what they have accomplished

[@slidey1000]

First time ive seen this video, brings bavk memories though, I was a sealmaker a few years back and helped with the prototyping of the seals for the LOX turbopumps. While none of my parts flew to space it's cool to think I helped a little.

[@smithers5016]

The cheapest way into space? Ladder!

[@luigivercotti6410]

First step to going to space? Tip-toeing!

[@RAFMnBgaming]

I would have said mass driver. I mean it's expensive to set up but as soon as you have one you can shoot the shit out of mars.

[@luigivercotti6410]

The joke Your head PS Should've used a ladder

[@RAFMnBgaming]

+Luigi Vercotti I'd have placed my head in the path of that joke way quicker with a mass driver. Jus' Sayin'!

[@luigivercotti6410]

HASEnoncorperated Your massive obsession is driving me insane.

[@NeonsStyleHD]

NASA offered to build a launch facility in North East Australia, but as usual, the Australian government declined the offer, even though NASA agreed to pay most of the cost. As usual, New Zealand is ahead of Australia. We should hang our heads in shame. Even now, there's an effort to build a launch facility, but Australian governments don't like taking any risk, so it'll probably go the way the first one. In the bin. :(

[@NeonsStyleHD]

Yes, but it doesn't have the potential for making money as much as a launch facility would. Even now, when it's clear how much money can be made in space, they are still hestitating.

[@nerd1000ify]

Yes, we'd much rather provide billion dollar loans to notoriously sketchy Indian businessmen so they can build economically dubious coal mines. Low risk!

[@RAFMnBgaming]

The more i hear about the australian government the more i feel like we should suspend you from the commonwealth to shame you into having a revolution.

[@NeonsStyleHD]

I'm an Australian, and I agree. Every time we've had a bill of rights put up before Parliment to codifty the rights of Australian citizens; the Australian government on both sides and knocked it down. Then there's the refugee program which is just abhorent. They are simply refugees, but the government treats them like criminals. They even have children in these refugee camps. More akin to hitler. I agree, we should be shunned from the Commonwealth. We deserve it.

[@NeonsStyleHD]

No, it's the exact opposite. They are all conservatives

[@Chris.Davies]

Very happy New Zealand has joined this exclusive club, and in a very sustainable way.

[@tziuriky86]

Liked and subscribed!

[@iamsick5204]

If aperture science made a rocket

[@NFreund]

Yep - and as dangerous. Not reusable and lithium burning up in the upper atmosphere, it's deposits being "transported" to every part of the food chain (eventually)...ironically, the Delta IV is the most environment friendly rocket there is, even if it's not reusable...

[@gajbooks]

That would be called the N1, except it would eventually work.

[@theconeezeanemperor1619]

Gah, you hippy, as if a few lithium batteries burning up in the upper atmosphere will kill all the fluffy animals... That rocket is the next step in making space travel mainstream, and if it is held back by petty concerns of environmentalists then I will be far from amused. Do not get me wrong, the environment is important, that is why the Paris Agreement exists, but by hell if anyone tries to shackle space-travel development then that is too far.

[@NFreund]

TheConeezeanEmperor I get your point, but if there are other means available that are not much more expensive - why cheap out? The Delta VI is absolutely clean and if space x makes a hydrogen Merlin engine, it's going to get even cheaper, because hydrogen is dirt cheap to produce (and done the right way, it's the most environment friendly thing you could do! The space shuttle flew with that for a long time! Except the boosters...). There are ways and means to do all that! And let's be honest: it doesn't matter if putting one pound in orbit costs 2500 or 3000 - it's still too expensive to put us out there in the masses and escape a broken eco system. If we can't live here any more, or have a massive world war on our hands, what does it matter if we were able to put some people on Mars, a few years earlier? I'm the very last person that's against space travel, my biggest dream is getting "out there", but I ask again: what does it matter if everything goes to shit for that dream?

[@theconeezeanemperor1619]

Fair points, but I fail to see how a few lithium ion batteries burning up in re-entry will either cause WW3, or single headedly break the ecosystem. If we can get to Mars a few years sooner for the sake of using Lithium Ion batteries and a few "dirty" engines I would say that is worth it. However, once equivalent or more commercially viable alternatives become available I would rather they be used of course, as long as they do not compromise our progress. Think about it, if such materials and methods being used in rockets is the straw that breaks the camels back (Imagines "The Day After Tomorrow"), then we have no hope in hell of saving this Earth, and even a slightly better chance of getting the hell of this rock is worth it.

[@rishoh]

This thing looks Kerbal sized. And I love how Imaginatively their rockets are named. /jk

[@runescapefan0001]

It's the opposite of kerbal sized. It's small

[@joshwagstaff13]

runescapefan0001 No, it's actually pretty close to the Size 1 parts. Electron has a 1.2m diameter, while the Size 1 has a 1.25m diameter.

[@peterjohnson8625]

Great work New Zealand this really something.

[@DustinHarms]

Yeah they really need a bit more attention. Glad to see them popping up on my favorite space travel channels. :)

[@andyspark5192]

Wait until they start using Lithium Glass Battery. After that, the quantity of launches will skyrocket. (wordplay) The scientist, who invented Li-Ion battery is working on it, with some other scientists. The good man is over 90 years old and still productive.

[@Bryan-Hensley]

Andy Spark titanium dioxide batteries are the future

[@mykeprior3436]

No chemical battery will ever beat a chemical reaction. Thermodynamics + Chemist. Nuclear....maybe if you could recharge it.

[@camicus-3249]

*Orion pulse drive intensifies*

[@gregvanpaassen]

... and always will be.

[@emperorarthur882]

The other alternative is putting a generator turbine on board. Using electric fuel pumps is pretty revolutionary. As Mr. Manley says, it not only simplifies the engine, but gives them greater control. The problem currently is scaling this tech up for larger engines.

[@JaknTV]

Peter Beck, the Elon Musk of new zealand

[@yokowan]

They even kinda look alike. Kinda. Sorta. Not really.

[@fryncyaryorvjink2140]

New Zealand......... Rocks.

[@hologrampizza5432]

Hopefully he doesn't work his employees to death on 60 hr/week schedules like Muskmelon does.

[@GabrielePeroni420]

He still needs to make a car

[@UpcycleElectronics]

Bunnings Warehouse Whakapapa Bikes are more efficient. He should just make bikes instead.

[@matthewstuart2054]

What a great company! They don’t attract as much fanfare as some of the other companies but they quietly go about delivering results, whereas some others make grand promises and flashy presentations. Respect!

[@fr.jaimsonthomasthekkekkar3310]

Smokeless rocket, a great gain! Congratulations

[@MsMotron]

can you calculate the specific impulse if you include the lithium batterys as fuel, that is being used? would be interesting.

[@jameskinard]

Specific impulse stays the same as it is dependent on the propellant not how the propellant got there. The TWR is lowered though because of the batteries as Scott said

[@MsMotron]

no it does not. if you get the same amount of thrust (force integrated over time) out of two rocket engines, but one of them uses more mass, this one has a lower specific impulse. and since the lithium ion batterys are nessesary for the operation, it would only make senst to factor their mass into the calculation of the specific impulse.

[@AerynGaming]

You would factor them into the mass side of the equation for delta-v and TWR rather than the specific impulse side the exhaust velocity is not changed because the batteries are attached, the performance loss would come from the rocket being heavier due to the batteries

[@aleksandersuur9475]

Specific impulse has to do with how fast you are throwing propellant out the rear end, not how much, or what your equipment mass is.

[@ePiiCeaglepwner]

MsMotron Specific impulse is just dependent on the velocity that the propellant gasses leave the nozzle so it makes no difference. It would make a difference in thrust to weight or delta-v.

[@protocol6]

It's cheapest per launch but that seems kind of meaningless when what you normally care about is the cost of getting your payload in orbit. At $6 mil per launch, that's what... $26,666 per kilo in the optimal case (up to $40k) for the electron. Compare that to the Falcon 9 which, while $62.1 million per launch, can deliver a kilo for only $4654. Falcon Heavy, at $90 mil, should do a kilo for about $1698. And that's before you consider re-usability which gets the Falcon 9 price down to $1559 per kilo and Falcon Heavy to $447 per kilo. Of course you have to be sending your payload into roughly the same class of orbit and at the same time as a bunch of other customers so it won't work for unusual orbits or tighter time constraints. That lunar mission you mention, other very small interplanetary science missions and military/intelligence missions seem like the most likely ones that will benefit, right?

[@benrobertson1255]

You're missing the point. If you have a cube sat that's only a few hundred kilograms and a specific orbit you want it in do you pay for a rideshare on a Falcon 9 that likely isn't going to go to the orbit you want or wait years for one that is. Or do you go to the RocketLab website, book your launch, specify the orbit you want with a wide range or inclinations available and pay $26,666 per kilogram to put it up there sometime in the next few weeks? The Electron doesn't need to be reusable when it's been optimised for extremely rapid manufacturing and is aimed at up to 50 launches per year. The sheer scale of service availability supply for makes it a no-brainer for anyone wanting to launch a cube sat. SpaceX got a lot of criticism for their approach when they started in their market, now give RocketLab a chance with their approach in what is a completely different market to SpaceX's.

[@protocol6]

I didn't miss it. That was the second half of my comment. There are certainly unusual orbits or timing constraints that warrant the higher cost per kilogram where it would be cheaper than any alternative given those constraints. You'd still have to cover the full $6 million even for a 1.33kg 1U cubesat unless you can find others who want to piggyback on your unusual mission. Now it could be there are lots of missions that really don't care much about orbital parameters or launch timing and you'll always be able to fill an Electron due to limited supply of launches. If so, awesome, but if that's the case, I'd expect SpaceX to ramp up to meet demand as they'll always beat Electron purely on per-kg pricing. I'm sure they'll get lots of business and I wish them all the luck. It isn't *generally* cheap, however. It's cheap for a very specific subset of missions. There's nothing wrong with being the cheapest provider in a niche, but that's what this seems like to me. How big that niche really will turn out to be is anyone's guess -- but it seems Electron will find out for us.

[@benrobertson1255]

As you said you'd still have to cover the $6 million per launch even for a 1.33kg 1U CubeSat. So for a dedicated flight: Falcon 9: $62.1 million Electron: $6 million Rideshare: Falcon 9: less frequent and less likely to go into an orbit you want Electron: More frequent and since you're riding with other CubeSats you're more likely to find a ride where everyone is going to a similar orbit. 1U for $77,000 What it really comes down to is if your payload is small enough for an Electron. If it is I don't see why you'd want it on an F9 and if it's more then chuck it on an F9. They're two distinct markets, there's no overlap and no competition. Why do you insist on banging on about cost per Kg? It's not relevant when comparing two rockets that are for completely different payloads. All that has happened here is that SpaceX has lost some rideshare payloads, they can't do anything to get it back now unless they want to expand into this market, don't think it would really suit their image with the whole multi-planetary BFR stuff.

[@protocol6]

As far as I can tell, I'm not actually disagreeing with much except your initial misrepresentation of my comment. Electron is targeting a niche that is almost certainly big enough to sustain them and may actually be much larger than a lot of people surmise. Time will tell. Again, more power to them and I really hope they do well. My original comment was simply meant to point out that, while it may be cheapest for a dedicated launch or for certain launch profiles, it's quite expensive by another common standard. Mr. Manley saying it may be the cheapest seemed to beg qualification and a breakdown of pricing. I just tried to provide that for those who might not want to take the time to look it up. Saying it's cheapest isn't wrong, exactly, it just felt incomplete. At the end, I even questioned my own presumption about which missions were likely to benefit. You are probably right that smaller groups of cubesats going to less common orbits should have been included on my list of beneficiaries.

[@perry8498]

Good stuff

[@sheabrown]

lol i have the same headphones as a rocket control center

[@Morrigi192]

Same here. They're quite good for the price.

[@sheabrown]

Morrigi192 For sure

[@thunder852za]

I just got a semi.

[@sabre0smile]

Woo! Well done guys :D

[@boatymcboatface666]

Great presentation! Hopefully doing road trip to observe next launch..😀

[@joldsaway3489]

Electron Heavy launch date?

[@ivoivanov7407]

"Electron Heavy" should be named "Muon" :)

[@benrobertson1255]

A heavy launcher would go against the Electron principle of rapid access to space for light payloads that don't justify a dedicated launch on larger rockets. It would mean going into a market that RocketLab is a long way from being prepared for, they'll need many more years of growth before they can risk expanding into the heavier lift market. Hopefully, someday they'll do it if they can find an innovative technology differentiator that can set them apart in that market like they have in this one.

[@addisonlane1041]

most small satellites these days are secondary deployments and have to wait for launch dates, rocket lab is filling a gap in the market

[@Electroblud]

So how does this compare with burning fuel for the turbo pump? The isp may be lower when burning fuel, but you would also need to carry 200 kg less weight in batteries for maybe 20 kg more fuel. Also batteries are muuuuuch more expensive than fuel. So.....

[@GigAnonymous]

Batteries are fairly expensive... but it's possible the cost is offset by the economy they make on the engines themselves.

[@PagsPayback]

More like a hundred kg of fuel. You should not forget, that you cannot simply drive the preburner with a 1 to 1 ratio of fuel and oxygen. No turbine would survive combustion temperatures of 3000°C. So you have to cool them down. Usually by using a higher ratio of fuel which results in lower combustion temperatures. Furthermore the electric motor has a much higher efficiency (around 90%) compared to turbines (maybe 45%) which further helps reduce the weight gap between chemical fuel and batteries. But I think the most important reason why they actually use electric motors in the Rutherford engine is the pricetag. The most complicated (and by far most fragile and unreliable) part of rocket engines are the power packs. By using a technology that is as reliable and cheap as a simple electromotor, they can save a lot of money on development, testing and production. And the drawback of the relatively high weight can be reduced by using composite material for tanks and structure. By the way, the batteries of the Electron are about as strong as those in a Tesla, which make me doubt that they have any impact on the price of the Rocket at all.

[@Electroblud]

Hmmm. Interesting. Thanks for the thorough explanation!

[@meson2439]

It might be easier to salvage the batteries too and electric motors are pretty generic.

[@sixstringedthing]

Copypaste from a reply I made above: The lower TWR/Delta-V is offset by the fact that their Rutherford engine + electric pump system is nearly twice as efficient as an open loop gas-generator-cycle engine, and is far simpler to build (i.e. cheaper) than a closed-cycle engine. So their theory is that it will hit the right price/performance sweet spot for their targeted commercial launch sector.

[@vincenttwin3890]

Happy this new tech is getting some attention

[@OldIronRC]

Awesome! Well done New Zealand! For such a remote and little place we sure do pull off some neat stuff. Can't help but feel proud of the Rocket Labs team. If you want something done, tell a kiwi it is impossible...

[@gracefool]

Especially if it's about doing something cheaply but with high standards

[@HUMM3LMAN]

Are the batterys being reused? Because burning up rate lithium isn't really more environment friendly then toxic fuel I'd imagine...

[@johnbrown9181]

No, they burn up. However (with a few exceptions, such as the US-A satellite's reactor core) all LEO spacecraft burn up in the atmosphere (with any remainders falling into the ocean), and they usually contain some form of hydrazine and dinitrogen tetroxide (even if the tanks are mostly empty). Plus they have batteries anyway, though probably not as many.

[@johnbrown9181]

@gtq838 While I certainly agree batteries are generally safer than hydrazine, I am pretty sure it would decompose in the upper atmosphere long before it could harm anything.

[@tocococa7353]

If I strap a Electron rocket to a Proton rocket do I get a Hydrogen rocket?

[@FarrFromPerfect]

It's a neutron matter ;)

[@xd-qg5dz]

I live close enough to the launch site to watch it launch out on my balcony, and it is a site to behold!

[@gutz-Coldrevenge]

just a humble kiwi i hear about something in New Zealand i thumbs up!!!

[@glxytoni]

5 million dollars... I can imagine thats a lot less than a normal launch but can someone tell me what a payload to space cost with the F9, Atlas V, Delta 4 Heavy? 😂

[@davidwu4247]

F9 is around $70m and Atlas V is $110M, but you’re talking about much bigger payloads.

[@glxytoni]

David wu yea i know, thanks for the info

[@Pipiopy]

they charge about 1.2M/kg. still more expensive than coke

[@cogoid]

It is less famous than SpaceX, but Indian PSLV rocket has already been used to launch hundreds on small satellites for all countries. Planet Labs is their frequent customer, and the typical price has been around $500K for launching 4 cube-sats weighing 4 kg each. On some occasions they have launched 88 Planet Labs "dove" satellites at once, (plus other payloads.) Despite that, Rocket lab will have plenty to do. They already have enough customers on their launch manifest to keep them busy for years to come. And at least some customers pay significantly more than $5M -- for example, NASA pays about $8M for one "launch and associated services." This is typical -- published SpaceX $60M prices are the "starting from" price. The actual published SpaceX launch contracts with the department of defense show sums closer to $100M, when everything is included.

[@damstachizz]

Electron at full capacity (225kg) costs ~$27,000/kg at the current $6mil ish price point, verses the F9 in reusable which is roughly $11,500/kg. The idea is for economies of scale and more efficient means of production to start kicking in and bring the price down, less for just the price per kg but especially the overall price - if they can launch 250kg for $5m that's a very nice little chunk of market they've carved out for themselves, where small satellites are becoming more and more the norm.

[@ozzyfromspace]

A moment of silence for all those times Elon said rockets would never go electric. My fellow space junkies, the transition has begun. Congrats to Rocket Lab on achieving LEO, and greetings to y'all in New Zealand from Michigan. :))

[@cogoid]

Elon was correct. This rocket uses kerosene and liquid oxygen as propellants.

[@mathiasbast]

Just moved to Gisborne in New Zealand, so glad I did :)

[@NeverTalkToCops1]

+Mathias Did you have to prove you are rich or extremely viable economically to get admitted?

[@HappyFlapps]

I love the way Scott says the word "moon". Scottish accent is the best.

[@pitthebestia]

Aren't they just pumps if there's no turbine powering them?

[@sesc79]

pitthebestia No, the pumping action is still performed by turbines. "Turbopumps" are also used in vacuum technology - electrically driven but turbine blades move the gas molecules.

[@pitthebestia]

sesc79 nope, turbopump is a specific term referring to a gas turbine coupled with a pump, this system uses electric power instead of a turbine

[@cogoid]

You both have valid points: _"Turbomachinery, in mechanical engineering, describes machines that transfer energy between a rotor and a fluid, including both turbines and compressors."_ As _sesc79_ said, turbomolecular pumps are electrically driven _pumps_ that are indeed he mainstay of high vacuum technology. So, a centrifugal pump *is* definitely an example of turbomachinery. But _pitthebestia_ is also correct that it is not common in engineering to call random centrifugal pumps as "turbopumps", and in particular in rocket motors, most people associate "turbo" with the turbine that drives the pump. Since there is no clear cut rule here, whatever people will end up calling the pumps in the Rutherford engine, will simply become the established tradition.

[@cogoid]

For what it's worth, engineers at Rocket Lab call them "turbopumps".

[@sixstringedthing]

I think the "turbopump" nomenclature would be retained for ease of understanding (since these electrically-driven pumps are doing the same job that the turbopumps do in a gas-generator engine), and to avoid confusion when referring to any other of the (probably numerous) "pumps" in the spacecraft... hydraulic, tank pressurisation, etc.