Why the 'Holy Trinity' doesn't exist in the 4th Generation.

[@ms.bunini]

i feel like kpop stans try to find patterns in everything instead of letting each generation be themselves. there doesn't need to be "the next twice" or "the next bts" of the 4th gen. the kpop industry has evolved a lot, even in just the past few years. i wish people would let each 4th gen group do their own thing without using a senior group to define them and their future.

[@pigeondance]

very good observation!

[@ms.bunini]

@@pigeondance thanks!

[@daisy.4682]

i’ve been thinking this!

[@Anjan_-]

This

[@kngaman9]

I feel like kpop stans like you try to make it all about kpop, that's called comparison, people are going to be compared to other people no matter what, it's not a kpop thing, you can be compared in anything and that "the next" type of comparison can be found in so many industries, such as sports and gaming

[@blueberrymountain]

I sometimes forget that gidle is 4th gen group. They give off such a solid 3rd generation sound. Like, especially with 2022 groups, the difference is huge

[@user-nb5jo2xi1g]

I feel the same way

[@d0wntownki2k]

i think most people feel this way because it's honestly so true. I once thought they debuted in 2016 lol.

[@theetaurus1832]

ooo that’s not..

[@littlecherrybloosom9950]

They are 4th? I always think of them as 3rd too since Soyeon were in Produce 101 along with the 3rd gen idols and Miyeon was trained with Blackpink members 😆 But yeah, they are practically gen 4; debuted in 2018. That year is pretty much too early for gen 4 but too late for gen 3

[@Anistar95]

@@littlecherrybloosom9950 which is why itzy, gidle, izone,everglow are gen 3.5 for me. They represent a shift in kpop culture away from 3rd gen and still different from 4th gen. Earliest grp I can accept into gen 4 are aespa and stayC from late 2020. The groups debuting now are way different from those in 2018-2019. Kpop culture is changing so fast, maybe duration of a gen has shortened? Maybe the groups debuting last year are gen 5. One can define as they please.

[@_L10]

Being aware of the Holy Trinity effect, changes the way it shows up again in kpop. It changed how companies debuted and marketed groups and now it doesn't really exist anymore.

[@rubystarsly166]

Wasn't there a Holy Trinity for male groups in 3rd gen in kpop ?

[@_L10]

@@rubystarsly166 idk maybe it was like BTS, Exo, GOT7

[@vixxexo6855]

@@_L10 Wanna One and Seventeen were also top groups tho.

[@258Loures]

EXO and BTS definitely the other position is vacant

[@ayeon5609]

@@_L10 Defintely not GOT7 😂

[@kacey_k]

It’s worth noting that the 3rd gen holy trinity are all from the Big 3 labels. In contrast, K-pop fans are now appreciating high quality music from 4th gen gg (e.g. STAYC, Billie) that are not from Big 3 (or Big 4) labels.

[@chavalisaipavan5472]

The part where twice, blackpink nd red velvet became holy trinity was in 2017 or somewhere around that... Even in 3rd gen groups like gfriend, mamamoo etc received a lot of appreciation for their music.... Hell gfriend nd mamamoo music performed same as holy trinity in charts which stayc, billlie have yet to do. They have an audience but other than that nobody cares about them... While gfriend nd mamamoo transcended across fandoms...

[@emi-uc2qx]

mystic story (billlie) is a child company of sm lmao

[@potathottwit7604]

"High quality music" makes no sense at all, that is why kpop fandoms are divided because each group have different genre and a different way of executing it. R&b, edm, rock, ballad, miami bass etc. You may like the ballad or the edm but another percentage of kpop fans doesn't like them, you may not like the way a song is transitioned from one genre to another yet another percentage of kpop fans may like them. And Billlie is still by half belongs to SM entertainment (still in the Big3)

[@yejiponytail1897]

@@potathottwit7604 high quality production is objectively wise high quality music despite the genre

[@vaffangool9196]

*Cube, Starship, Woollim,* FNC and Source all produced high-quality material in the third generation.

[@dgls127]

Thw term "switching up" for me is for those stans who just want what's popular. Aespa and Stayc were THE group of 2021, and they made one song that they didn't like and suddenly they're flop, their music is trash and etc. Some ppl are not here for the groups nor the songs anymore, they're here to follow who's popular bcuz they wanna be part of the majority. When nwjs, ive and le sserafim have one bad era i have no doubt that ppl will replace them for someone more popular

[@Jh0nVieira]

New Jeans is an interesting phenomenon because it has reached a vast audience outside the kpop bubble and most of the numbers they are doing now are from people who just like good music, and do not fit the role of kpop stan as we know

[@bernadethbautista547]

@@Jh0nVieira it is

[@kngaman9]

People were always there to be part of the majority, you can see it in everything, people will flock to what's popular regardless of if it's good or not, like for example, Cardi B

[@yachishairclips2250]

@@Jh0nVieira This factor could led to NewJeans be the face of 4th gen kpop..

[@saviorofs0ng]

its funny the term switching up is being used... i think bandwagoning is more appropriate. which is why im seeing so many people say these groups will have a popular single or have hype for a debut then after their debut people will seemingly forget about them just to hop onto the next rookie group just to say they were there from the beginning

[@Misfitybby]

I see it like this: BP, RV, and Twice are considered the Big 3 of third gen because they were basically the groups who had the longevity to maintain their popularity at the end of 3rd gen/in the beginning of 4th gen (because of the reasons listed in your video). The end of 3rd gen came around the same time that the west was really getting into kpop as well, so these became the standout 3rd gen girl groups among international fans, older groups went unnoticed because they were simply not active or well known internationally at this point. Then, with all the newfound interest in kpop at the start of 4th gen, fans are basically witnessing 4th gen unfold before them (like how you said it's coming in waves) only this time these companies have way more money and way more fans invested in these groups from day one. Every new 4th gen group has higher standards and expectations than the last and then each individual group has higher expectations each comeback. It's so easy to get into one group and then lose interest if they don't comeback for a while or if their new releases don't live up to expectations. You get a shiny new toy every few months and the old ones collect dust in the closet. There's also some elements of misogyny that play into it. Girl groups are disposable in Kpop. Female idols are much more easily and readily replaceable than male idols when they get to a certain age, or a new young IT girl comes along. I believe that's part of the reason why BP, RV, and Twice are really the only 3rd gen GG's standing while 3rd gen BGs are still thriving to the point newer 4th gen BGs can hardly get a foot in the door. Female idol's careers just don't last as long comparatively. I believe there may eventually be that "holy trinity" in 4th gen but they won't be revealed until 4th gen is ending and we see who is left in the dust.

[@user-nb5jo2xi1g]

Best explanation thank you

[@crstph]

this is exactly it. boy groups are a slower burn and girl groups burn fast and bright, so the 3rd gen groups with the strongest fanbases were the ones that maintained their longevity

[@strawnut6652]

They also each were the top group of each big three companies.

[@thesweetestgirlintown]

i just feel like pushing for a holy trinity in 4th gen is a little outdated at best and misogynistic at worst lol. i think kpop fans need to accept that we’re in an era where girl groups are all attracting equal attention and success- there’s no need for a strict hierarchy of popularity!

[@FlyingAnanas-337]

How is it misogynistic?

[@thesweetestgirlintown]

@@FlyingAnanas-337 in my opinion, it treats women/girls as expendable. only the coolest,prettiest and youngest ggs are allowed to have all on eyes on them with undivided attention. girl groups are already at a disadvantaged in terms of longevity, so the holy trinity pushes out the autonomy of ggs and treats them as self insert characters or mysterious untouchable ingénues. this type of idolisation is exclusive to ggs, bgs are afforded the ability to be mediocre with large dedicated fanabses. however for ggs, their careers are on a strict expiry date and susceptible to fickle fans.

[@FlyingAnanas-337]

@@thesweetestgirlintown I don't think that's true. The stuff you listed just makes it easier to market themselves. If you're cool, pretty and especially young you appeal to the big big market that is young people/children. It's really all in the way the company wants to market gg. Also if a bg starts lacking it will always reflect badly in the fandom.

[@salembejaoui1880]

It's not misogynistic it's just people trying to replicate an idea that was created and made sense in 3rd gen, and implement in 4th gen but it just doesn't work because it's totally different from 3rd gen

[@thesweetestgirlintown]

@@salembejaoui1880 the entire basis of “holy trinities” and the “it girl” phenomenon is rooted in misogynistic beliefs! however you won’t change my opinion and neither will i yours so let’s agree to disagree ~~

[@9xprincess]

I think (G) I-DLE has to be considered one of the stand out groups of the 4th Gen in general. First of all they managed to stand out and become a major girl group in 2018-2019, arguably the peak years of the 3rd Gen Holy Trinity. Even when new groups came such as IzOne, ITZY, STAYC, aespa, and IVE (G) I-DLE maintained their relevance and even grew in all areas. When only a few idol groups were on the public radar (G) I-DLE were on the digital charts and being streamed along with BTS, Mamamoo, and the Holy Trinity. Finally in 2022 they completely took over the scene with TOMBOY + I NEVER DIE and NXDE + I LOVE. Not only were these songs and albums massively popular and successful in all areas around the world; the group achieved critical acclaim and their feminist anthems pushed the boundaries of artist expression for kpop girl groups. Lastly Soyeon herself has set a new standard for female idol producers and the group as a whole as had major artistic control conceptually, lyrically, and in composition since their debut.

[@lnnocentVILLAIN]

GIDLE is not the most popular 4th gen ggs right now, but they're THE MOST INFLUENTIAL. Like how many times they were cited and rewarded as being the best gg in terms of visionary and trend making. They won visionary award and equalled to BTS in terms of positive influence.

[@sieunloversclub]

But gidle bsides are weak.

[@lnnocentVILLAIN]

@@sieunloversclub WDYM mean with weak? STAYC b-side famous only in Spotify, GIDLE B-side literally charting well in SK and China. And not to mention none STAYC B-side is more famous than My Bag and LION. Go out of your bubble you token stan STAYC leave daughters alone.

[@beepboopbaap2511]

@@sieunloversclub have you listened to their full discography? in my opinion, their bsides and albums are some of the strongest in terms of cohesion and image

[@sieunloversclub]

@@beepboopbaap2511 yes, I listened to the complete discography, only the latest release in English that I didn't.

[@tashikushnerscaredycat6492]

I listen to “Ring ma bell” 30 times in a day & never regret it, this comeback is 100% my taste, made so good🤌🏼 im a huge fan of rock music, and Billlie’s release hits right in the heart, I really missed the energetic rock music that brings a good mood🥰

[@youweremymuse]

Same here! I had Ring x Ring on repeat when it first came out. I love Billlie, their songs are 100% streamable.

[@Brickerbrack]

@@youweremymuse Ring X Ring is an absolute mental _masterpiece._ First time I heard it, my thinking was "This is insane, I have no idea what's going on, and I _love_ it."

[@kngaman9]

@@youweremymuse Ring X Ring is by far their best song, such a strange sound and it fits with who they are so well :)

[@holo6933]

It’s so difficult to measure up girl groups, but then when you look at 4th gen boy groups, the clear big groups are between TXT and stray kids.

[@aaaamxr]

yeah 4th gen girl group market is so fricking competitive! literally in 2019 ITZY were dominating and Everglow was a thing and popular. Now throughout the years Itzy have gotten...well...less known. Everglow disappeared. Aespa blew up literally but also aren't that big anymore? Following that with IVE who had an even bigger start that we thought couldnt get bigger and then we had LESSERAFIM who had further ahead an EVEN bigger start and are already one of the most popular 4th gen groups with 9m spotify monthly listeners and we thought it couldnt get bigger and we have the legend of all rookies NewJeans who are not acting like rookies at all and are already amongst the biggest kpop groups if we just look at some of the achievements theyve made 💀💀💀 It just seems like these girl groups are become more and more popular as a whole with kpop but like...nobodys really sticking to them? Its like the general public is there for them when they release hit songs but the general public loves to attend to every new girl group that comes out every year or so now, they make a huge hit and then the general public leaves them after a while. 4th gen girl groups are completely based on whether the song they release becomes a hit or not. They dont really have a strong fanbase like 4th gen boy groups do. And ofc now talking about the 4th gen BGs... theyre much more stable. We have a clear domination of TXT and SKZ since the beginning and that has stayed throughout the years. Other BGs have come like Enhypen and Treasure but they couldnt surpass these two. Theres no weird sudden hits coming from 4th gen BGs, which may be because the general public only listens to 4th gen girl groups. I don't know what is better tbh, to have a strong fanbase that sticks with you? or to have a couple hit songs that everyone listens to? IMO the first is better. Because throughout the 3-4 years, so many big 4th gen girl groups came and many more have gotten forgotten or less popular. But 4th gen BGs like TXT and SKZ have only continued to get bigger and bigger with each comeback and will continue to do so. The hits generated from the girl group side will become bigger and bigger with new GGs, but these two BGs will keep on growing enough to compete with these hits.

[@Teqip0bm]

@@aaaamxr that's true that's why general public is fickle, new jeans is carried by GP craze just like past girl groups, u will see the same pattern with baby mon, new jeans have lots of listeners and popularity but their voting, etc. Is low cuz they don't really have a core fandom yet mostly casual listeners, fandom power shows in the albums, voting etc. This is why aespa still has the most core fandom in 4th gen gg even after less promotions and few songs, their fandom is strong, itzy is also second to them, babymon will prolly also be next for having a strong core fandom, this is just my observation from what I have noticed but gg's like le seraffim, IVE etc. Are mostly dependent on their former izone members who had strong fandom for their fandom power, kazuha is the only non-izone member i can think of who can keep up with them. Having GP in ur side is nice, infact very good but longetivity is carried by the core fandom, this is why boygroups usually last longer than gg even tho they don't have general public attention much aside from BTS

[@minhyuklees1bebe902]

difference in marketing rookies, companies market girl groups towards the public (which is what most of the companies are doing now especially with how girl groups are in the rise) while they market boy groups towards the people who will like the *niche* genre they'll put out. personally think jyp is going with the fandom-centric marketing with both their girl groups and boy groups like the difference between the chart performance and the album sales is showing (not that the chartings were bad, they just were not on par with other girl groups that stayed in charts for a whole year) and they're actually quite smart for that.

[@bosskpop5710]

​@@aaaamxr And you know what is even worst is that will still be the case. This years SM, YG, HYBE will AGAIN debut new girls group.

[@bosskpop5710]

​​@@aaaamxr and i feel like that IZ*ONE was probably the only 4th GG who really build a REAL fanbase if this group was permanent they will probably still a the TOP. They were both popular in their HOME country but also outside at à time were group like TWICE and BP were still a the TOP and still considered new. I think if Wanna One or X1 were still active the 4th BG environment would be very different also

[@Des_.]

What I like about G-idle is that they can still maintain their popularity DESPITE the constant influx of ggs. Its like when Itzy falters, StayC falters, etc…they maintain a constant. I think to an extent their content can be provacative like TomBoy or Nxde or even Oh My God.. and really fires up the Kpop scene. It doesn’t need to be an O.O just to be relevant. They just keep steadily moving up, even when fans claim X new group to be next best thing.

[@bosskpop5710]

(G)I-DLE was able to build a solid fandom and theirs sound are not experimental like Itzy sounds can be + they started earlier which is even better.

[@sieunloversclub]

You always judge by the opinion of the current moment, gidle had its failed times too.

[@outdated7341]

@@bosskpop5710idle is def more experimental then itzy

[@Fieshs]

It's seriously not an overexaggeration how good Billlie's title tracks and bsides are. Their last album is full of bangers only.

[@naurrr]

seriously underrated!!!!!

[@anujinkhurelbaatar6859]

Fr❤

[@Laura-bi3gj]

I listen to all the groups you mentioned, I don’t love every song but I like the variation there’s in kpop atm Personally the absence of the Holy Trinity makes the music less boring and limited, companies are pushed to be more creative to stay relevant And i think the Holy Trinity was a one time thing bc those three groups opened the doors to new concepts, in the sense that they were different to one another that it made companies realise concepts are unlimited if you are creative and can pull off new things instead of copy paste bc it worked for them, idk just a thought

[@birchlawpa]

Excellent points!

[@yachishairclips2250]

Tbh... I am so much liking 4th gen music because as you said.. So much variation!! Really fun!! In my opinion..4th gen even tied close to 2nd gen, when it comes to variations. Like 2nd gen has the girl crush(2ne1, beg1), cute (Apink, early SNSD), weird but good (orange caramel), retro inspired (T-ara), varied concepts (after school, K-ara, 4-minute,SNSD), sexy (Sistar, Hyuna, AoA, Secret, etc). 3rd gen is the most boring one because of the said Holy Trinity.. not much came out at this time.

[@saviorofs0ng]

@@yachishairclips2250 its funny you say that, i feel like most mainstream music started to stagnate circa 2011 which is about when 3rd gen started. whether it was r&b, metal, pop etc... i feel like that era was just so boring. in regard to pop, it became so bubblegum and technoy and uninspired. it wasnt until 2015ish that artists found some kind of spark whether it was mixing pop with drill and/or trap (which gained traction around 2013) or 80s and 90s pop throwbacks (right now) as well as hyperpop gaining popularity.

[@beccabowen4292]

I've realized that the only itzy songs I absolutely adore are the hyperpop ones from the times they made Sophie produce 😭

[@sylv_exter5272]

what songs did Sophie produce for them???

[@kyooongie]

@@sylv_exter5272 24hrs

[@beccabowen4292]

@@sylv_exter5272 24hrs! The vibe is just different, I love it and hope they Collab with other similar producers in the future

[@blueveluv4748]

I'd say for like early 4th gen the holy trinity was defo gidle, itzy, and iz*one in terms of popularity and being influential, they were undeniably the top in that time and despite iz*one being a temporary grp the power they held was still very incredible but currently with lots of new groups debuting with each very unique concepts and good quality music its really hard to find a holy trinity because there are way too many groups that are constanly debuting and deserve recognition and are given almost equal love and attention from netizens which is why the term holy trinity doesn't really exist in 4th gen anymore.

[@amalio_3098]

The way aespa sold millions of copies yet cant even make a full album😭

[@crimeyfruit5676]

the girls deserve so much better

[@karinaminabina]

sm keeps delaying their comeback because of the drama between lsm and chris lee

[@typicalperson4698]

iz*one was a group that set standards for girl group sales and showed everyone that girlgroups can compete with boygroups and the 3rd gen gg holy trinity in terms of sales. both of the post-izone groups are continuing their legacy being extremely successful. they are definitely the leaders of 4th gen cause in these 2 years of being active they did things that no other girlgroups could do and new groups were still struggling to break their records long after iz*one disbanded until the former members came back in ive and le sserafim. it's so sad that their impact is always being disregarded in this type of discussion.

[@Tthatswhatshesaiidd]

I know right!!!

[@TrinityEcho]

You got it exactly right. We need to consider the lasting impact they had/still have.

[@zipzapkpop]

The iz*one erasure is insane. If we're talking about not being active in the whole 4th gen, then we shouldn't consider newly debuted groups either. In terms of influence, they are up there with g-idle. iz*one pioneered the new golden age of girl groups, leaving a lasting impact in the industry with ALL of the members doing well now in their own fields. For such a big group with each member still being influential... SNSD is the only one I can think of who have achieved the same. imo they are the true avengers of kpop 😂

[@your-regina]

I think it's important to note that one of the main factors that made Twice, BP and RV become "the holy trinity" is the fact they came from the Big 3 companies. Now, in this generation JYP released 2 very experimental groups (one of which didn't do well even in their debut) and SM did kind of the same, with Aespa having increasingly weirder and unrelatable lyrics that make you sound dumb when you sing along. And YG didn't even release their 4th gen GG yet, since BP is still active and strong. And also we now have HYBE which became a big thing out of nowhere and has 2 of the leading GGs. So there are many more factors to consider than there were in the 3rd gen The 3rd gen started in 2012, but we didn't have a clear holy trinity until late 2016/early 2017, so I think it's too early to say there's not going to be one in the future.

[@bosskpop5710]

Don't forget that THE PRODUCE Series also contribuate to the formation of power group from middle size companies. If IZ*ONE wasn’t a things IVE wouldn't be as popular and Starship would be struggle a LOT.

[@laolaapanda3723]

Purple Kiss also has a pretty great discography. Their besides hit different but they're rarely mentioned

[@chaeinsane798]

YEESSSSS. They are also mostly self-produced and some members are all-rounders. major slay.

[@andieamigu5214]

My current fave ggs on 4th gen, are le sserafim, g-idle and StayC. I loved Beautiful Monster, It felt like the younger sister of BLACKPINK's Lovesick Girls. It was just not popular, because of all the debuts and comebacks that were switching the industry.

[@birchlawpa]

Thankfully, another "Beautiful Monster" fan!

[@andieamigu5214]

@@birchlawpa 💖

[@Diyel]

Bruh, you adding CSR together with groups such as LS, NJ and IVE, even with the monster rookie group that is Billie absolutely warms my heart as a Maeum.

[@odgykins]

Billage of Perception Ch 1 was my AOTY for 2021 and Collective Soul & Unconscious Ch 1 was my AOTY for 2022 (Billage of Perception Ch 2 was my #3 AOTY just barely bested by Le Sserafim’s debut album). I’ve followed Billlie since pre-debut and I already have insane nostalgia linked to BOPCH1 because I remember how for the first time in a long time, I was absolutely GEEKED over kpop. Things felt like they had gotten stale and predictable at that time. But then Billlie came and dropped these weird, off-kilter songs that really made me question all those years I spent learning music theory in college. They were challenging song structure. They were challenging what SOUNDS good. I describe BOPCH1 as a passion project. If this were rock and roll, it’d be an album a band records in the basement of some dudes mom’s house, just before they make it big and sign to a major label. You can hear the imperfections, the production is a bit rough around the edges, but it works. That’s Billlie.

[@HorribleHarry]

Very well done. I agree with most of the points here... THAT BEING SAID... (G)I-dle are absolutely there. Their last couple of albums are outstanding. The fact that 3 members pretty much write all their songs, gives them a freedom most other groups don't have. Besides Soyeon, Yuqi is an excellent songwriter. Minnie has talent as well. Even if there are fewer "standouts" in the 4th gen, Idle simply have to be included in the conversation.

[@aprille5820]

I think that most kpop stans just jump onto the next big gg for the hype and not actually their music, and will leave once they deem the gg as a “flop”. ex: stayc was a fan favourite last yr but most disliked them so much this year because of just “beautiful monster” not being their taste. i see the decline in gp success in aespa as well with their recent comeback not as appealing, but im happy that next level and savage already solidify a fanbase for them. bc of so, its hard to determine whos gonna stay in the long run.

[@bosskpop5710]

Aespa and stayc fandom are more loyal amoung korean. International (western one the Japanese and soith asian) fan in general less loyal. Don't really take them too serious

[@aliciadefranca]

i think the popularity in the girl groups now is centred in 9 groups (newjeans, ive, aespa, gidle, le sserafim, itzy, nmixx, stayc and kep1er) some intermediates (which i can only name fromis, billlie, purple kiss and sometimes everglow) and LOTS of unrecognized groups while in the 2nd/3rd gen there were 3 REALLY popular groups, lots of intermediates (like gfriend, clc, wjsn, apink, momoland, 4minute, kara, aoa , etc) and some unrecognized groups.

[@bloodredbl00m]

Please just be a multistan and hear the music you love. And support, not hate! If you don’t like the groups music right now, then leave. You don’t need to waste your time!

[@justdb4]

4th Gen is really breaking the mold for girl groups. Example: GG's with big fanbases after just a few comebacks (usually just happens to BG's). More GG's actually making songs that cater to women instead of the male gaze. The biggest trend in the 4th Gen is to debut a GG and the GP has been craving more GG's than ever in other Generations. Previous Holy Trinities: 1st: S.E.S., Fink.l, and Baby Vox 2nd: Wonder Girls, SNSD, and 2ne1 3rd: Red Velvet, Twice, Blackpink 4th: N/A It's kinda crazy if you really think about it.

[@yachishairclips2250]

2nd gen's 3rd contestant to holy trinity is debatable, SNSD and 2ne1 are staples... This is because 2nd gen is also divided into 2... early 2nd gen where cutesy concepts thrive and pater part of 2nd gen where sexy concepts thrive... K-ara, Sistar, AoA or Apink had their big moments during 2nd gen

[@Teqip0bm]

Ggs have always been for both genders, stop with that male gaze bs, even now there are more male fans than it was back then, i am a 1st gen listener, ggs were always popular, it's just their companies that were the root of bad sexualization and incel male fans, other than that they also had tons of female fans, it's no doubt gp likes boygroups more but one of the reason is because 4th gen bgs songs are horrible, only some are listenable, back then we had ikon, bigbang, exo, etc. Who released Gp friendly songs

[@namanh8439]

Actually, the term holy trinity dated way before gen 3. Gen 2 has their own trinity of ggs (SNSD, 2NE1, Wonder Girls), trinity of visuals (Sulli, Suzy, Yoona)

[@tillie_brn]

The 3rd gen holy trinity is very clearly the 3rd gen Big 3 GGs, because back then those were pretty much the only companies that had the money to pump out really good comebacks and marketing for their groups, making them ultra-popular. But now with HYBE, all of these sublabels that could absolutely not compete with the Big 3 when they were independent suddenly have massive resources and attention. So the competition just became way more intense and the 3 most popular groups keep changing every few months.

[@knowlesknowles1356]

Thank you for taking time to worry about my time. But honestly I can watch a 2 hour video from you because it will be in depth and amazing ❤️❤️❤️

[@knowlesknowles1356]

I love Billie so much but the underappreciation 😭😭😭... New jeans, ITZY, Billie, lesserafirm, Aespa, Ive fighting!!!!!!!!!!!!! ❣️❣️❣️❣️❣️

[@multifan6679]

Honestly, considering the records broken, bit also the concepts, I would have said that the trinity would be either IVE, New Jeans and G-Idle or, depending on how well the next comeback does le sserafim instead of G-Idle. Not only is the holy trinity influential, they also qll follow different concepts as you pointed out. IVE has the elegant concept (like Red Velvet) New Jeans has the fresh teen crush Y2K concept (like Twice) and Le sserafim/G-Idle maybe even Aespa have the badass concept (like Blackpink). The problem with Aespa is simply that they have been absent for quite some time. The 3rd spot for me is definitely between Aespa, Gidle and Le sserafim

[@statesofgracie]

I think another factor in “switching up” is that as kpop becomes more popular there’s just a lot more casual fans as well which is fine you need casual fans to be successful but they don’t necessarily stick around. I think a lot of what happened with stayc is that there were just more casual listeners and fans than stans and swiths and if a casual fan doesn’t enjoy the release they won’t talk about it and stream it as much so it’ll seem like they’ve lost fans. as more groups pop up this generation it’s more likely to find more casual listeners than full on stans because people just can’t dedicate the time and energy stan every group no matter how good the music is so yeah you’ll miss a few releases or not enjoy some but the “switch up” isn’t as bad as it seems

[@MariusMoonbeam]

I hate the trend of single albums but I don’t really mind a mini album, just wish the songs were better. In general though, I prefer albums. I agree wholeheartedly about Aespa and Itzy. For Aespa their sound is unique but they don’t really commit and the concept while interesting also fucks up their lyrics. Itzy is just generic right now and not in a good way, JYP really doesn’t seem to know what to do about them. If there was a trinity for this Gen I’d probably say IVE, Le Sserafim and NWJNS but I also thinks like G-IDLE,Billie, Purple Kiss, and CSR are getting great sales and becoming more popular so in the end, the term looses its relevance bc more ppl are listening to more than just the “popular/mainstream” stuff. Great video!

[@erdndi]

Nowadays i lean towards Le Sserafim as my source of happiness, and since i am also One Piece fans, why not call the top group of 4th generation as The Four Emperor and Seven Warlord of the Kpop 😎

[@dwftmyearth6166]

Thank you for speaking up on this! As someone who just listens to whatever sounds good to me, it seems ridiculous to choose a holy trinity especially when all of these groups are fairly talented and popular in their own right. Also so glad you mentioned Billlie! They are actually the first 4 gen girl group that I bought every single album of. I never expected to become such a fan of them but their music is great and their album covers are just so cool. Like you said, it's clear that mystic story puts care into Billlie's comebacks to make sure they are of great quality.

[@kat3rpillar]

I love hearing all the Billlie praise, they truly have everything a group should offer! Stay tuned for their fourth mini album in March!

[@Brickerbrack]

I can't wait; it'll be my first comeback as a proper Belllie've, and it *may* drop while I'm actually in Korea... 🤞

[@zibbitybibbitybop]

This phenomenon has a perfect equivalent in sports: parity. Some sports are more prone to having a tiny handful of teams dominate the league every year, but others are way more balanced and many teams have talent and get plenty of wins. K-pop has transitioned to a state of parity in its girl groups, in which nobody outright dominates and there are lots of successful groups with solid sales and a good, stable fandom. I personally think it's much better this way.

[@dhhan68]

An interesting topic greater and heathier than most Korean Kpop news media. The kpop companies you mention here should consider your comments seriously. You are always a great analisis and story teller.

[@psti_]

The best thing about Billlie's discography is that I can sit through the whole album, not skipping even one song. With IVE, there's not that much too listen to

[@psti_]

@@auspiciouslyray8379 I'm honestly so exited!!!

[@Brickerbrack]

Billlie absolutely blew me away. It took me some time to realise it, but when decided I liked them enough to download their mini-albums, they've basically been on repeat a good chunk of the time; they're _incredibly_ replayable for me. And now within a couple of months, I've caught up and bought all the CD versions, the Season's Greetings, and officially joined as a Belllie've. Only two other acts have grabbed me this hard previously, and that's Dreamcatcher and Rolling Quartz. They may not have the immediate popularity of NewJeans and IVE, but I can see Mystic are doing an incredible job, and I suspect Billlie are in it for the long game...

[@rocinante6530]

Your enthusiasm for Billlie has made me check them out. I don't think I would have even listened to GingaMingaYo otherwise, much less their B sides.

[@beesbees1669]

I think also the fact that Twice, Blackpink, and Red Velvet are still active and make music makes the argument hard to pin point. The groups now have different unique identities and strengths that saying “so and so is the second coming of so and so” isn’t really fair to either side. I definitely disagreed with some of your points but one thing I agree with is that we won’t know if there ever will be a 4th gen holy trinity until the 4th gen comes close to its end. Nobody really knows when the 4th gen will end either and that’s also something to take into account. We’re only mid-way through 4th gen and these childish arguments does a disservice to everyone, including the fans. Everyone should just enjoy the music and keep it cute.

[@bosskpop5710]

4th gen is already close. Analyst and Mnet announced that 2023 is the years of 5th generation bcuz most 4th gen groups would be have 5/4 years this.

[@blueblueberry0110]

4th gen holy trinity 1 1 (G)I-DLE 2) ITZY 3) Aespa 4th gen holy trinity 2 1) IVE 2) LESSERAFIM 3) NEW JEANS

[@princessaroyale]

Lesserafim haven't done anything impactful enough to be apart of a holy trinity I think they need some more time to grow but for now I wouldn't put them in a holy trinity unlike aespa with there insane album sales and achievements and itzy with there viral dances and songs and G-idle with there massive growth in popularity and IVE with all there achievements and newjeans with breaking bts's own achievements lesserafim haven't done anything really

[@fatimaalhassan1720]

@@princessaroyale you didn't see any articles on them breaking records of album sales in Japan and they're have the most monthly listeners after New jeans in 4th gen, fastest group to reach 100 million streams on Spotify with antifragile, their antifragile is still in was in top 10 for eight weeks, the song is still in global hundred after almost 4 months

[@lucy6495-r8x]

@@princessaroyale i guess you are not quite understanding this video Re-watch and rethink again 👀

[@aaaamxr]

@@princessaroyale LESSERAFIM are trending everywhere wtf

[@nuellawayne2308]

@@princessaroyale the disrespect tf

[@wed814]

I've just rewatched the video and I think you should do a new version now that the 4th generation is finally over.

[@1CE.]

Oof I just thought of something. Notice in all this boy groups didn’t even come up. It’s truly been brutal this Gen You had BTS, Seventeen, GOT7, Monsta X, iKON the list goes on. Gen 4 there’s.......Stray Kids and Enhypen Maybe that can be an interesting discussion

[@retricallltann6243]

Well it’s prob cus holy trinity was used to describe gg only as bg has what we call BSE during third gen which were quite literally the biggest and gastet growing boy grps of their time exo bts and svt furthermore you had the others like monsta x wanna one ikon got7 pentagon Astro tgere wasn’t really a word or way to really describe the holy trinity of bg back then even now every bg is equally as good and all have made their own impact in their own way txt enha skz ATEEZ tbz not to mention in a league of their own nct made up of two generations of artist it’s really harder to say the best among bg compared to ggs

[@kavsarchives6779]

You always cover such interesting topics on Kpop, it’s so refreshing to see something different on kpop youtube. I’m also curious to know if you can make a video on who you think will be the next Nation’s girl group after Twice ?

[@zinja0830]

I am 1000% agreement with you. PIXY is also a rookie group with an amazing discography along with Billlie, but with their recent member change up, I’m worried for their future ngl.

[@toomuchpassion2361]

It's interesting because of all the early 4th gen groups you mentioned only G-Idle stood out to me. But yeah, the later 4th gen groups are crushing it!!

[@nayeongotthelines8108]

The Holy Trinity 2nd gen: Girls Generation, 2en1 and Fx 3rd gen: Twice, Blackpink and Red Velvet 4rth gen: Itzy, Aespa and G Idle

[@jordanjohncarloj.8878]

New jeans cased is really fascinating because they reach the general public and not just the kpop community, I don't see them flopping anytime soon especially Hybe is kinda Monopoling kpop.

[@birchlawpa]

@@user-sk2uj5ey9y I understand your sentiments, but 44M views in 6 months on just the official MV do not make a flop. It is problematic, but I wouldn't go so far a "flop."

[@potathottwit7604]

The reason why they reach the general public is because the creative team targeted western fans (since bts made kpop more popular) by copying black artists from the early 90s to late 2000's music. Kpop has never been known for its generic pop but rather the quirky image and music. Look at IVE, Le sserafim, Fifty Fifty, and New Jeans, they go for the "trend" and most likely their songs will go mainstream in the near future. This is the main problem and the only reason to prevent that is to be innovative and epxlore different genre without changing it drastically just like how Weeekly and ITZY took a huge turn. They need to pull a TWICE card, from the crush to mature concept since this girls are definitely gonna grow more and will have the likes to explore.

[@aurora-cc6hk]

@@potathottwit7604 EXACTLY. and since they're 11 year old cute Korean girls it's okay... I just hate how their fans act like they're concept is some revolutionary work of art and every other group's concept is "bad" and "bland"

[@retricallltann6243]

@King 89 just because one of their songs had inappropriate lyrics not suited for their age it doesn’t reflect on the overall success of the grp and nwjs for one aren’t flops from debut to now they have been breaking records after records maybe I der stand what flips are before saying mindlessly that a rapidly growing monster rookie grp has flopped alr even with how Inappropriate cookie you can’t deny that a hell lot of people was still listening to it

[@jnsols]

@@user-sk2uj5ey9y90 mil streams on spotify..

[@jackleary4968]

billlie is easily one of the best, if not the best group, that has debuted from 4th generation. From their amazing discography, incredibly talented members, and incredibly unique concept and songs, Billlie is just that group and they deserve all the attention they receive and more. Stan billlie!!!

[@__________08885]

Personally I think it's only when a generation passes onto the next that the "leaders" become really clear. An example are the 3rd gen leaders aka Twice Blackpink RedVelvet and yeah they were always popular but in the 4th generation, if you try and think of a 3rd gen group then you'll think of them. Idk how to explain it well tho so iykyk

[@Casquillo8520]

I get that some ppl dropped stanning stayc cuz the concepts were "off", but that's what i like about stayc, they won't just follow trends. they're doing they're own stuff and that's really cool

[@jeeewhyyypheee]

It's rare that someone had the exact mind as me, you are one of those. I'm not a one group stand, I like to listen everything that exist out there. I've been into kpop since 2nd gen. You exactly right when it comes to how newjeans create songs and how billlie create songs. There are songs that created solely for fun listening and streaming as newjeans, but also songs that are created for critical, analytical, experimental piece, such as billlie & red velvet. Whenever I felt bored listening to fun songs, I just queue billlie & red velvet album. Billlie & red velvet discography is masterpiece, they got everything included. EDM, pop, rock, jazz, classical, rnb, trap, you name it. That's why I enjoyed listening to everything, especially with proper listening gears, brings out more every potential and hidden sounds.

[@littlegzb5410]

The 4th gen gg are all fabulous with their own identity. But my top 3 are Le Sserafim, NewJeans, and IVE. After watching this video, definitely want to listen more to Billie and CSR. Great content again, btw!

[@kathecarabali]

agree with billie, their music, the story, the visual...amazing and the dace videos they do are another level

[@wysse_beats]

I feel like there should be a 4.5 generation, because when 4th gen actually started, we couldn't have imagined that in 3 or 4 years we would have groups like Newjeans, IVE and Lesserafim breaking the charts and doing music that differenciates themselves from other groups. At least when (G)I-DLE debuted, they were at the top, then IZ*ONE too, then ITZY, and Aespa + Stayc in 2020. I feel like in this era (2018-2020), the trinity would've been ITZY, (G)-IDLE and Aespa, and from 2021 to present, the trinity would be IVE, Newjeans and Lesserafim. It's kinda difficult to believe that all of these belong to the same generation because normally, the top 3 groups of any generation would stay at the TOP for many more years... but this time, it feels like they are being ''''''''''replaced''''''''''' too fast

[@fayei]

no it’s just 4th gen. and will forever be 4th gen. no 4.5. it’s literally like 3rd gen, at first it was red velvet, mamamoo and gfriend and the later on when it ended it because bp twice and rv. no 3.5 gen or any nonsense. the fact of the matter is we won’t know who the holy trinity will be until 5th gen starts. also it’s always felt that it’s going too fast in prior gens, the only difference now is that gg are actually being tossed away instead of all of them dominating at the same time. it’s so disheartening to watch

[@luzie4785]

Now that the 4th gen has ended I'm pretty damn sure (G)I-dle and New Jeans are part of the 4th gen holt trinity. You can argue wether Ive, Itzy or Aespa is also part of it but (G)I-dle and New Jeans really secured their places

[@mimi-du5tl]

It’s laundry day so I have your videos playing in the background,,,, and I heard you say “these groups are getting younger so they have more pep in their step” Not me agreeing to it bc I’m 21 rn and no longer have that teenage spirit 🥲

[@soomi]

I think the issue with gen 4 is that we had this awkward c0r0na era in-between, splitting up the gen between 4.0 (from 2018 to 2021) to 4.5 (2022 - ongoing). For the first half of gen 4 I think it was pretty clear the trinity was IZ*ONE, (G)I-DLE and LOONA. For the second half of gen 4 it's not clear as there's still a huge contender (yg girl group) about to debut), but for now it's IVE, NewJeans and aespa.

[@hxcneeey3604]

Instead of aespa i would say le sserafim aespa hasn't had a comeback in a long time and they aren't even talked about except for winter and karina who are in GOT

[@aaaamxr]

ITZY should be the first half instead of LOONA. LESSERAFIM for the 2nd half instead of Aespa.

[@khamilab988]

for the first half of fourth gen it was defo gidle aespa and itzy

[@mimi_imfat]

@@hxcneeey3604 it doesn’t matter if they are not talked about recently. Before that they have achievements that any 4th gg is yet to achieve so excluding aespa cause they haven’t had a cb would be stupid. They’re arguably the most successful 4th gen gg in some aspects.

[@Jihyos_]

The Loona sneak is crazy 😭

[@char5297]

people saying izone is trinity is actually crazy. i love them sm n still stream regularly but COME ON

[@thissitescertifiedhousecat8107]

Honestly I think holy Trinity are the groups that survive the hunger games of their generation's peak and prevail beyond, so I think there is going to be a holy Trinity by the end of 4th gen, it's just hard to predict who it will be, just yet. Especially when some of the 4th gen's biggest hitters are so new like newjeans, and some haven't even debuted yet like baby monster... My prediction is that lesserafim and itzy are going to be in holy Trinity and the 3rd place is going to be one of, newjeans, nmix or baby monster (sadly I think aespa won't make it because of their concept and how sm is dealing with their group, they will still be popular just not "holy Trinity" popular)

[@birchlawpa]

I like the way you think!

[@bosskpop5710]

International fans overestimate ITZY a bit too much

[@lenacollery4103]

jyp has "his grubby lil fingers" in itzy and twice and "its not working out" HAD ME CREASING. STOP.

[@desbielei]

stayc not being very commented has nothing to do with run2u and beaumon in my opinion, because they keep getting better and better in charts and sales every comeback. everyone says that beaumon wasnt their best comeback but they sold potentially more albums that era than the last one which was super well-produced. the reason why stayc is not very commented is simply because there is no member from other groups or survival shows, they literally started from zero. some people say sieun was very well known for her acting but she's following a different career now, a different niche. so it's not a fair argument.

[@staycsprinkles3777]

BINGO!

[@kareempop6451]

I stan A LOT of groups . I stan Itzy , aespa , le sserfiam , newjeans , ive , stayc

[@yj1nnie999]

I honestly love billlie so much and can’t wait for them to explode and get the spotlight they deserve in the 4th gen (more so than they have now). They have such great music quality, quality concept behind each comeback, and amazing members

[@cezaricacumatrenco2037]

Aespa’s concepts and sound is crazily catchy and brilliant from a musical standpoint, mera has a video that explains these very well

[@kds.presents]

You bringing pro sports/the NBA into the mix as an analogy earned you my sub. Thanks for your content, man.

[@annatedikova6861]

I'm so glad you included billie and i 100% agree with everything you said about them. I also noticed that many "good music" groups that you mentioned are actually from smaller agencies (even Newjeans and Le sserafim - technically they're from small agencies inside HYBE) and groups from the big 3 are slowly losing their popularity/quality. There are some sociological theories on cultural industries that suggest that smaller producers tend to go for something unique and different from the bigger producers that usually follow the money and mainstream trends, so it's nice to see real-life examples of things i learn in college ;)

[@sana-cm7oc]

Spot on. Love to hear someone recognize Billlie's discography. B'rave is one of the best Kpop songs ever - ever. The talent in the groups you mentioned is fierce. Subscribed.

[@GleeChan]

I couldn't agree more. As far as the monster rookies are concerned, I think it's too soon to call. They are popular NOW, be we've all seen how trends go in k-pop. When aespa debuted, that was it. They were the be-all-end-all. Now they're a fine group in a sea of fine groups. For instance, I love some of NewJeans songs, but lI think their weakness is that they are too tied to their gimmick that I don't know if that has long-term staying power. If their popularity keeps up though, I see do them as a bigger group with western appeal like Blackpink, hands down. For IVE , I also see them as going to be a future mainstay, but they need more tracks. The amount we get is fine for now, but since they've been hailed as the best by practically every K-pop award show, they need to step up. I think they're great, but I think their hype is what got them those wins. Billie I couldn't agree more with my boy, nothing more the say there. In regards to NMIXX... I still don't get them, like at all. I guess their music isn't to my taste, I don't know. Kep1er is a non-factor because they are a temporary group. I only stan because Yujin is there if I'm being honest... plus they are a group with no identity who make boring music (kinda like Lightsum). Out of the lot, I'm a LE SSERAFIM fan simply because I've seen them survive a controversy, their discography has flavors, and they've shown they can mix up concepts. That has more lasting power imo, plus it doesn't hurt that two IZ*ONE survivors/veterans are in that group as well as a ballerina and an opera singer. That group has stacked talent. Lastly, I'd like to put into consideration some groups that SHOULD be in consideration if their popularity was bigger. PURPLE KISS would be my number one pick. Like LE SSERAFIM the talent in that groups is almost unfair. They just haven't had a Ditto or a TOMBOY yet. StayC and EVERGLOW would be my next picks because they produce bops that people love but don't necessary commit to (for some reason). I would have added CRAXY and bugAboo if they were still around. Why the fuck am I writing an essay on this. No one is going to read it.

[@NowAndToEternity]

3 is the smallest number to make a pattern. So people are obsessed with it. Throughout religions, arts, literature, entertainments. There are something comforting about the number 3. Past, present, future. Opening, body, conclusion. Heaven, Earth, Hell. Similarly, in manga used to have the Big 3. After that, there are still people want to have the big 3 but nothing ever solidified like before. Kpop used to have the holy trinity which came from the big 3 companies. Now Hype is bigger than all of them yet people still have to argue for a trinity. It is may just be a psychological thing.

[@marianadelloca2321]

I could listen Ring Maaa Beeell for hours and hours, it's so good!

[@kelseylelei]

maybe this is a long shot but i feel like the concept itzy was going for is kinda what le sserafim is pursuing now. like confidence not caring what other ppl think as long as i’m happy/ok and it has felt like itzy kinda like let that go after like not shy

[@retricallltann6243]

Kinda diff actually itzy concept is focusing on self love while lsf focus more on being strong as your own person and showing others that you aren’t easy to break

[@Jh0nVieira]

3 videos in a row. Amazing and please, get some rest!

[@viamargutta5I]

Wow you did not just looped in my favorite player and kpop in this video. I’m subscribing.

[@zxcvbnm04]

if there WAS a trinity, i would argue there are two: (gidle, itzy, aespa) & (ive, le sserafim, newjeans).

[@TheoriginalPR1]

Honestly it's more of a "Big Six" than a Holy Trinity. The older trio, (G)I-dle, Itzy and Aespa, each successful in their own right. And the newer trio, IVE, Le Sserafim and Newjeans who are pretty much on top right now. With a special mention Izone because obviously their case is different, and you could argue that LSF and especially IVE are just a spiritual/symbolic continuation of their success.

[@chengetaimubaiwa2239]

I agree with the point about being a multi-stan. It's good to have a variety so you won't get bored or over-saturated with listening to just one group. I mostly listened to bts around 2019 to 2020 until I decided to listen to other groups like Got7, NCT, SKZ, ATEEZ, Red Velvet, Everglow, Aespa, (g)idle, CLC, le sserafim, XG (they're jpop group based in South Korea, I highly recommend them. They got some good music) and many other to come. At least you won't be limited to just one thing

[@NWxoxo]

I feel like Lesserafim is going to keep solidifying it's position and making its way as part of the Holy Trinity (two albums with actual bsides which two me were ALL hits) and NewJeans is 100% going up

[@nickianasan]

I'm gonna say that the og holy trinity for the start of 4th gen would be the I-trinity which is IZ*ONE ITZY and I-DLE and since 4th gen has been around for a while now it's safe to say we have another trinity which is now objectively speaking IVE LESSERAFIM and NEWJEANS

[@shadotarot]

Gen 1: SES vs Fin.k.l vs Baby VOX Gen 2: WonSoKa (2ne1 too but generally WonSoKa is THE iconic term) Gen 3: Twice vs Red Velvet vs BP (but Gfriend and Mamamoo are also considered top-tiers) Edit: One of the things that makes a gg top tier to me is to have that "it girl" in their group. I couldn't recall who it was for Gen 1, but for gen 2, it's YoonA for Soshi, Sohee for WG and Hara for Kara. Similarly, in gen 3, we have Irene for RV, Nayeon for Twice and Jennie for BP. So, by that vein, the current it girls rn are: Wonyoung (IVE) and Karina (aespa). And Yuna (Itzy), but Itzy tanks their singles lately so... Also, justice for StayC! Beautiful Monster was a snooze fest. But Poppy was so good!

[@cjc363636]

Billlie is coming. Which is so great. Thanks for this take. (PS: The MV audio level on my playback was WAY louder than your narration track. Had to keep upping / downing the volume) .

[@everythingbobi]

what is to be said about the 4 gen is that like THE GIRLIES CARRIED IT THROUGH AND THROUGH like from itzy in 2018 to newjeans in 2023 LIKE the boys are not keeping up and i am not mad about it like

[@itzamyyx]

❗️There’s a girl group named Fifty Fifty and they make good and refreshing quality music. I feel like they’re not getting the attention that they deserve since the K-pop industry is over saturated, people only focus on the groups that are from big name companies. I think that Fifty Fifty is a talented group and that you guys should check out and support Fifty Fifty

[@SkyFWWO]

Definitely the holy trinity is Loona 1/3 Odd eye circle And the last: Yyxy

[@shas9679]

The way ITZY was discounted is wild. What other 4th Gen GG went on a world tour (like BP, RV& Twice) besides ITZY& Gidle? Influential check, popular check and their title tracks aren’t the best lately but as you mentioned, their b-sides are bomb. We’ll see which lipsyncers get the chance to go on a world tour. Until then let’s just enjoy everyone’s music

[@fayei]

the same thing is unfortunately going to happen to these new ggs after they release ONE bad song. the way ive’s discography is flawless and everyone agreed until they saw how big they were becoming and is now a punching bag for everyone

[@sur_un_nuage]

man out of topic but all this time i thought i was subscribed to your channel but i wasn’t 😭 love your videos even when i disagree about a few points

[@sur_un_nuage]

i wouldn’t put stayc in the holy trinity (as of yet 👀) they’re my ult 4th gen group so they’re #1 for me but i’m saying this based on their general public opinion. HOWEVER stayc seems to be taking their next comeback to the next level like they’re taking it very seriously this time it seems like the promotion for it in big in korea. the reason i don’t think we have a holy trinity in 4th gen is #1 like you said because there are a lot more groups in 4th gen #2 because i think holy trinity really came out to be as twicepinkvelvet by the end of the generation like before the conversation also included gfriend and ioi similarly to how the conversation includes like 10 groups. i think iz*one was really really influential so they should be considered one of the greatest 4th gen groups and they are but similarly to ioi they were a project group, sadly if they lasted longer they would definitely be like at the top but ive/lesserafim are carrying their legacy even if the music is different. if we’re ever gonna have a holy trinity which we might not it’ll be in a few years in my opinion.

[@malukoloko53]

Thanks for showing me Billie, give than a chance and now I'm addicted, a lot of good musics

[@smolprincesslys96]

Loving the Billlie praise!!!

[@xsomili5501]

11:24 FR. Ive been a stan since SNSD eras and I've never been happier with kpop music. 4th gen music is reaaallly my fav gen, and its definitely becuz of the music. my fav 3rd gen group with the best music was gfriend and gfriend only pretty much, RV has a lot of great songs too. I like songs from other group but they never gave me that feeling if u get what i mean. The i truly am in love with these songs and its pretty much perfect, and not just a eh its pretty catchy i can sing and listen along. with these 4th gen groups, I'm truly in aw with the songs man, I've never loved a song as much as Love Dive and Ditto before. Le Ssera bsides are just perfection and don't even get me started on newjeans.

[@lnnocentVILLAIN]

Stream wise, in 2023 there are only 3 ggs that has more than 150M streams/month(YT and Spotify combined): NewJeans, Leserafim, and GIDLE. IVE kinda lag behind in Spotify and KZbin (not MV views but total streams from YT chart) Streams would not lie. And mind you, these 3 also has the most diverse area of popularity.

[@Teqip0bm]

But their albums, voting power does not really go with the streams, this shows that streaming is also mainly dependant on general public, having a strong fandom core and GP streams is different ,Ggs like aespa and itzy will always last longer cause their fans will stay loyal no matter how less promotions are or how weird the song is, this is shown in their album, voting power, judging solely by streaming is hard to tell since GP always plays a big role in it

[@bosskpop5710]

Most k group steamer are casual listener not fans. Ive been listening many release in 2022 and i do not follow none of them or even buy them. People can listening or watching without being fan. CSR are more than 3M views but only sells 7K and they last come-back was even worst. EVERGLOW steamer are HUGE but theirs album sales are extremely LOW, Yuehua made them in hiatus that. CLC never have a salary bcuz theirs album sales were LOW theirs unable to pay their debts to CUBE. Yujin herself said that she receive her 1st salary with Kep1er. Don't believe the internet HYPE but the actual numbers. People are just hypocrite nowadays.

[@boyfront4952]

Mostly agree with you here, it is harder to pin down which groups are the "dominant" ones. I do think this year will be telling, though, and if groups like Le Sserafim and NewJeans can keep the momentum over groups like Itzy -- we may be able to define things a little more closely!

[@crazyforanimez]

IZONE Almost become the IT Group but because of their Time they disband but Now because of their disbandment there 2 IT Groups Instead of 1 👑👑

[@bvaler]

GIdle is Chris Paul. 20 years later they will still be there, vegan all of a sudden but thriving. I kinda put them above a trinity concept since Soyeon controls the discography. In some ways putting them into a concept that depends on the label is disrespectful because I would suspect they might actually do better after they leave Source.

[@birchlawpa]

Great points! But they are under Cube, which may be worse that Source. At the end of their contract, I believe they will be back with Soojin, under Soyeon's label.

[@pigeondance]

agree! i really don't think that we need to have a holy trinity now. 🧐🤔 as a big fan of girlgroups i want as much of them as possible to be popular and successful, so why have holy 3 when we can have like, holy 10 or holy 15?

[@i_regret_commenting_so_much]

I agree

[@LeloLeeleeRamirez]

I’ve always been a multi Stan, 4minute though, I had them through my break up so they always hold a special place in my heart. I love everyone else’s music for it’s quality, I’m not even apart of a fandom.

[@Sabisk879]

I feel like it's not a big 4 but a group of top artists that aren't really comparable Like Iz*one I've Lesserafim New jeans Itzy Aespa and Gidle , let's be honest Iz*one would have stayed as the top group well into this Gen because no one has yet to match or replicate their concept success or Fandom.

[@avancons1]

That runningback comparison too real. These young groups just have more longevity.

[@tairademisheva3230]

me, a 2nd gen fan, being shocked that the Holy Trinity mentionned wasn't SNSD, Wonder Girls and 2NE1