Why the TR-707 is better than the TR-909

Here is a comparison between Roland's top of the line drum machines from 1983 and 1985.
Which do you prefer?
0:00 Introduction
1:45 Build quality
2:30 Controls
4:04 Display usability
4:56 Buttons
5:25 Accent
6:14 Pattern storage
6:59 Inputs and outputs
8:34 909 MIDI bugs
9:27 Sounds
13:26 Swing
14:26 Outro

[@heusker]

The 707 actually has two different levels of accents, then you can also change the volume with the accent volume slider.

[@gwEmbassy]

That’s right, there are two levels of accent, but they are global.

[@lo-firobotboy7112]

@@gwEmbassy Unless you trigger via MIDI. Then you have more control.

[@freewheeler8924]

@@lo-firobotboy7112 That's correct, if you control the 707 via MIDI from your DAW, you have total control over MIDI velocity - you can do crescendos, etc.

[@lo-firobotboy7112]

@@freewheeler8924 Yup. I've had my 707 since 1989. It sees a lot of use, even today.

[@heusker]

@@lo-firobotboy7112 I didn't know that. I've only controlled it with midi once, which was from a Roland JX-8P.

[@HyperdrivenPictures]

I had that VERY dilemma back in 1985 - I was in a music shop in Holland. I was playing with the 707 and the 909. An 808 was there too - on special..! After an hour or so of deliberating, I finally bought the 707! Do I have regrets? Yes! I wish I had bought the 909, or even the 808, but overall, I have been very happy with the 707 and still have it to this day.

[@gwEmbassy]

This is a great story Hyperdriven! I was trying to imagine someone in your exact situation. Of course, at that time the popularity of the 909 was unexpected. Although some people were already starting to use the 808 for something cool. The 707 is still my favourite drum machine. I have a feeling it’s coming into fashion.

[@achtertijdtm786]

Ooof. That's rough. Greeting from a fellow Dutch person

[@reneschmidt9799]

A very good decision, which I would have made as well. The 707 was and is simply a versatile drum machine. It can sound very electronic, but also very rock "authentic".

[@lo-firobotboy7112]

As a Synthwave kinda guy the 707 is my fav. I've been using a 707 since 1988. I use the trigger out to supplement the kick using an analog Pearl DRX module making it very much a poor man's 909. The sound I covet is actually the 909 snare. For me, it's the signature sound.

[@gwEmbassy]

The 909 snare is very distinctive, I like it too!

[@osmetix]

Your comparison is spot on. I prefer the 707 swing also. Being a geek and a minimalist, I pick the 707 over the 909. Why? Well the 909 is a staple in Detroit techno and house, making its sound expected. I’d rather take a 707 and manipulate its sounds creating something new and unexpected. Detroit techno was founded on the philosophy of using old unwanted gear to forge a new sound. I know it’s hard to do, I’d rather sound original over current sound.

[@gwEmbassy]

Thanks for the comment KnuckleBuster! Glad I am not alone :)

[@rachelar]

Cliquey clichéd DJ used to hate original tho, like mixing a 707 kick with a 909 snare. So you might not get club play tho I appreciate your creative bravery and individualism

[@MarkTDKKnight]

Much more of a 707 fan here. It’s more synthwave.

[@gwEmbassy]

You are right, it’s brilliant for synthwave. It’s not a style I make a lot of myself, but I can see why it’s so popular with the synthwave guys.

[@Ferrichrome]

Same here! It's just perfect for synthwave.

[@reneschmidt9799]

The TR-707 was Roland's answer to the popular LinnDrums. Really good sounds especially the snare with a nice reverb and creates the typical 80s drum sound, which could sound very electronic, but also rather rock "authentic". A really versatile drum machine. The TR808 and TR909 just sound very special for themselves, but just more electronic or technoid.

[@gwEmbassy]

I also find the 707 can be ‘rock authentic’ I love the sounds

[@ASH-ou4cg]

Great job Gwem, while I may be wrong, this seems to be one of your more popular videos! I think you are onto something here!

[@gwEmbassy]

I think it is turning out to be one of my most popular videos. People liked the sampler shootout as well and a couple of the jams.

[@PeranMe]

Great video! Having never owned either machine, this was a great learning experience. Thanks for sharing this!

[@gwEmbassy]

Hey Per! Happy you enjoyed the video :)

[@Hunterwolf]

OMG I love the ride on the 707. The snare sounds pretty cool as well!

[@gwEmbassy]

The 707 ride is great :)

[@MusicFed]

My solution was to buy a LinnDrum. Best drum machine I’ve ever used by some margin with incredible (for the time) features like the option to have unquantized input, selective shuffle (different degree of shuffle by each sound), changeable sounds, real time and step note input, great midi implementation and so on.... smashing drum machine really - I’ll never sell mine The 808/909 are rightly regarded as immense achievements and genre-creating machines but I find them a bit too limited (especially the 808) and prices are now a bit crazy to say the least. I used to own an 808 and it’s great but I much prefer the Linndrum. To each their own

[@gwEmbassy]

The LinnDrum has iconic sounds too. I’m pleased you love yours!

[@officialsimonharris]

There is not 'only one sweet spot' with the snare and kick of the 909, there are a huge range of settings. The 707 in no way compares to the 909 (and I owned one for many years), the 707 to put it politely is junk compared to the 909, it's a poor man's Linn. It's like comparing a Skoda to a Porsche.

[@gwEmbassy]

Thanks for joining the discussion Simon. To be honest I did expect a few more comments like yours!

[@lownrgy]

The magic with 707 is when you layer it with other sample based drum machines like Yamaha RX or Casio RZ or Linndrum

[@gwEmbassy]

That is cool yes. The digital grit.

[@rachelar]

Skoda a bit harsh. Its a cut price 909 but also with a few extra sounds and features. I could argue the 909 is a bit of a pre Midi dinosaur, ok it has it but it's cranky ...

[@ASH-ou4cg]

Wow, I LOVE the rimshot of the 707, much better than the 909! It instantly screams acid/house!

[@gwEmbassy]

I guess everyone has a different taste! The 707 screams acid house in general I think :)

[@lars-fenin]

yap ....the rim on the 707 is (extra) special..:)

[@nosebleed1242]

I fell in love with the 707 when I heard it in Depresión Sonora's EP

[@gwEmbassy]

It has a great sound :)

[@colinrussell2017]

So true that the tuning on the 909 sounds is "set and forget". I used to lend mine to a friend for months at a time and when I got it back I'd be "This isn't how I like my sounds!" and I'd dail them back to the way I liked them and pretty much leave them. However it is cool to tweak the ride pitch and HH decay while the pattern is playing. I have a the 707, 808, 909 but they sit in a place I call "Classics Corner" in my apt. as I now use the TR8s for practicality sake. Great video! Good provocative subject!

[@gwEmbassy]

Hey Colin! I’m happy to have someone agreeing with me :) Of course not everyone does, and that’s fine! I enjoy discussion, as long as it’s constructive of course. Luckily 95% of my viewers are happy to talk about things properly :)

[@dpalaoro]

Great video! ❤🎉

[@gwEmbassy]

Thanks David!

[@dpalaoro]

@@gwEmbassy For sure! 💯👍

[@calicoskyband]

Great comparison! We too, prefer the 707 (better for an 80's synthwave sound). We use it for everything!

[@gwEmbassy]

Yes :) It’s got that sound that always seems to work

[@leftmono1016]

Back in the day I owned all the x0x machines apart from the 707. Listening to this video all these years later I remember why! Personal taste of course. Great video, thanks 😀

[@gwEmbassy]

hahaha ;) Personal taste indeed! Thanks a lot for checking out the video

[@Dirty1200]

707 + 727 is the combo to go for

[@gwEmbassy]

Great combo! Some also like the 909 + 727

[@TexHex82]

To me the external instrument function of the 909 is a killer! I pair it with akai s1000 to sequence loops. It’s great at producing quick house jams for that matter

[@gwEmbassy]

it is a great feature :)

[@rolandexclusive6306]

great comparison g

[@gwEmbassy]

Cheers Jacob

[@Roboami]

Liked and already subscribed a few weeks ago. Very cool channel! I've never owned one but had lots of fun playing a 909 back when all I knew about was FL Studio. Kinda opened my eyes how hardware was inspiring in a different way than DAWs. Now I own a mint 707 which I use a lot. If I want to get creative with the sounds, I use the outputs to trigger a Simmons SDS8. Very straightforward, sounds amazing and kinda makes up for the lack of analog tweakable sounds on the 707.

[@gwEmbassy]

Thanks for the sub Syntheory! That Simmons unit sounds like a lot of fun. I like the classics Simmons sound a lot and would love to try a unit myself.

[@Roboami]

@@gwEmbassy I highly suggest you replicate my TR-707 / SDS 8 combo! They can still be had for kinda cheap (without the whole drumpads kit). I know you could make an amazing video out of this!

[@autoy]

Of course it will depend a lot on the style of music you do. The 909 type of sound is simply invaluable for techno and it’s not easy to replace with something else that works as well. The 707 will simply not do it for techno imo. However the 707 has also a distinct tone that benefits from styles where the drum machine is not as dominant and it also works really well for all kinds of electronic pop. I think the 707 with the rom expansion is a tremendous value, even with a decent 909 kit. I would love if you could compare it to the original now that you have both. Great video even if we disagree in most of the conclusions :D

[@gwEmbassy]

This is a well reasoned comment :) Thanks for your opinion and that is a good video idea too!

[@falangistavaleroso9689]

@@gwEmbassy how are you mate? What about the tr 505? It has the best open hat I have ever heard, the shhHHHHHH that cuts the air. I might get one to resample once I receive a s950 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZLcZ3ibeNmpbtk would like to know your thoughts if worths having a real one or if as being digital, sampled will sound same on a sampler. best

[@sirjellybeans1st19]

Not True. I have an Old Dr Rythym that wipes the floor with the 909

[@gwEmbassy]

Which Dr Rhythm model would that be Jelly?

[@sirjellybeans1st19]

@@gwEmbassy Dr 670 . Although I can't pitch ( have other modules) this Machine wipes the Drum sounds on the 909. By the way? I couldn't care for the elitist snobs and their opinions on the 909 as in my experience there are lots of Drum modules better than the 909. I have also Korg Modules that would put the 909 to shame. It's my opinion again I couldn't care for the snobs so easily running to the so called "flag bearer" 909. It's not all that believe me.

[@klinkske]

Back in the day i barely could afford a mc303 and that was years later. So in the early 80’s all i could afford was revell models to build

[@gwEmbassy]

It’s amazing how much cheaper this stuff has got once you take inflation into account.

[@joeybegnomebino-rama1831]

I want a 707 with my MS-1 !!!!! Great drum machine .....very underrrated

[@gwEmbassy]

That would be a great combination :)

[@sheriffderek]

I'm not going to try and decide, but I really enjoyed watching your video. : )

[@gwEmbassy]

Thanks for checking it out :)

[@misterbrokennoise]

Good job!

[@gwEmbassy]

🙏

[@TheBroDotTV]

Love my 707 Gwem!!!

[@gwEmbassy]

It’s great kit!

[@bungalowjams]

For me, the 707 is all about those individual outs. Such a straightforward, obvious feature maybe, but it opens up a world of possibilities. The 707 kick is very underrated, it really is a wolf in sheep’s clothing! Sure, you have to work it a lot harder than the 909, but it brings huge results if you put in the effort. You will just know when it’s right and then it really, really hits the spot, there’s nothing quite like it! The clap is much sweeter sounding, and the rimshot is as classic as the 909 snare to me. The 707 will probably never be as valuable as the 909 but I do think it’s as legendary these days. I’ll never be selling mine!

[@gwEmbassy]

Great comment Mark, I fully agree with all of that!!

[@dpalaoro]

that swing setting feels soooo much better played on the tr-707. ❤🎉

[@gwEmbassy]

Yes, it 100% is better on the 707. The 909 almost sounds bugged

[@VintonChowderhead]

My 707 has a broken diode, sadly... time for a repair! I love it though, great for bedroom synthpop. When I was first getting into making music, I was so bummed that every drum machine I found was a synthesizer type, so when I found a 707 for 200 bucks, it felt like a revelation, and then later I found out that some of my favorite bands used them, like Skinny Puppy and The Jesus and Mary Chain.

[@gwEmbassy]

sorry to hear your 707 is a little sick. Hopefully can be repaired quick :)

[@dpalaoro]

that tr707 open high hat though! ❤🎉

[@gwEmbassy]

That open hi hat sound is very versatile

[@amplifier2]

I have the 707 since 1985. Was never really happy with the sounds - but at least they don‘t sound overused.

[@gwEmbassy]

They are simple sounds for sure, but that’s what I like about them.

[@NeoLudditevisons]

Nice video!! I love my little TR-09

[@gwEmbassy]

Nice! I tried one of those in a music store and thought it sounded totally authentic! My fingers had trouble with the small buttons, but I suppose you’d get used to that quite quickly.

[@NeoLudditevisons]

@@gwEmbassy haha yeah i have slim fingers and you kinda get used to the small interface after a while! Sounds great through a compressor pedal! I just love the 909 sound and the thick closed hh. All about taste i guess! However i have bought a drumbrute impact which well good too

[@gwEmbassy]

I liked the Drumbrute Impact as well when I tried one. It’s a lot of a drum machine for cheap!

[@gwEmbassy]

The only thing I didn’t like on the Drumbrute Impact was the clap :(

[@NeoLudditevisons]

@@gwEmbassy you know what i really like the clap but it takes tweaking. Some colour and a tight decay with a lil reverb sounds ace. Also the clap with high decay an no colour but bright tone + reverb is very industrial techno sounding. You do get a lot for your money but using separate outs is key! The saturator in the unit is really good

[@tonverfall_studio]

That's a nice comparison. I've owned a TR-707 for a bit more than 30 years, though haven't used it much in the last 20. It has a very recognizable sound, and one that didn't get picked up by a later genre in the same way as the 808 and 909. I kind of like that - it's the nerdy, unpopular TR of that trio. One thing you didn't cover is flam, which is a very peculiar and interesting function. I have no idea is the 909 has it, but one can do some strange stuff with it. I think it would be fun to attempt variations on newer styles like trap just using the quirky stuff in the TR-707.

[@gwEmbassy]

I can confirm the TR-909 does have flam :) I love the TR-707 myself, it’s my favourite drum machine!

[@cryptout]

At the point where an electronic instrument surpasses the sum of it's component and becomes revered, it's no longer possible to compare it to something else on mere features alone. Back in the day we all knew the 707 had more going for it feature wise but it never reached the same status as the 808 and 909. I would love to have one now though.

[@gwEmbassy]

The price does still keep going up on those 707s.

[@danielbarry5547]

I love my 707, I have a MC303 that has the kits of the 808 and 909..although I dont like the workflow with the MC303 I love having access to all three sounds!

[@gwEmbassy]

I bet that’s a really good combination Daniel! I still never tried an MC303 myself.

[@SuperMax_____0.0_____]

Both are with the 808 and the Linndrum the shape of the rhythms of our lives, you cant go wrong with any, its just tastes or get them all

[@gwEmbassy]

Very true!!

[@kilevox]

I am very happy with my 707, the price i paid for it was cheap so therefore if you upgrade it with a kit from Harry Axten then you have everything in the ball park. It is a shame you didn't do comparison 909 bank on 707 Vs. real 909 on the right. I found it very very close indeed + saving a lot of money of course.

[@gwEmbassy]

Someone else asked for that comparison. I guess I should do that

[@Dirty1200]

I like the TR-626! It almost sound like an 707 but you can pitch the sounds to get a linndrum:ish sound. But to be honest i think the SP1200 is the ultimate drummachine. Every drummachine i sample in to the SP1200 sounds GOOD! Even the 808!

[@gwEmbassy]

I put the SP1200 into it’s own special category. It is so much more than only a drum machine!

[@user-rv8wb1nl1b]

707 was used on LOTS of early house . Nowadays there is NO need for either, the TR8 is MORE playable live . . . . . . its odd that hipsters are now getting back into these units and Behringer is doing them again (when an MPC or TR8 kills them outright!). Nice bits of history though ! Great vid !

[@gwEmbassy]

I’m not sure we’ll see a Behringer 707 clone, though that would be cool. The TR-8 is more playable live, I agree with that.

[@lownrgy]

There is nothing odd, MPC or ACB machine is no close real deal

[@gwEmbassy]

ACB = analogue circuit behaviour, like the TR-8 uses. I must say the TR-8 is amazing with what it does, I like mine a lot, and they are affordable second hand. If you compare the TR-8’s 707 kit to the real 707 though, the real 707 has more weight to the sound. But then you have to look at all the extras the TR-8 offers on top of the 707 for less money. In the end, only what you prefer and the music you make counts. I would recommend a beginner starting out to get the TR-8 as it offers a lot. But, I still prefer the 707 for a lot of intangible reasons, largely sentimental.. No gear wars in my comments please ;)

[@F-Andre]

🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣Hipsters and other retards are more into t-he tr8.... ppl get so easily fooled by Roland.. it became the new apple😂😂

[@MaxDBlas]

if you prefer the 707, please give me your 909.. because the biggest mistake of my life has been selling both my 909 and 808... 😭

[@gwEmbassy]

😭😭

[@bumdittybrendan3710]

707 is my favorite

[@gwEmbassy]

a wise choice :)

[@bumdittybrendan3710]

@gwEmbassy I have a tr8s and I just pretty much use the 707 and occasionally change the toms. I like the "analog" tom instrument om the tr8s so I sometimes swap the 707 toms for those. Otherwise I leave it the rest of the kit intact.

[@dpalaoro]

tr707 rim can not be beat! ❤🎉

[@gwEmbassy]

I agree, it’s beautiful

[@svenssko]

Kick, open hat and sequencer of the 909, but with the tight snare and toploops of the 707 would have been the ultimate machine. I can dream, but at the end of the day a modern DAW will do both.. and much more

[@gwEmbassy]

It would be a fun machine!

[@vinnytnecniv]

Im 909 love 909 i have from the age of 8,i grew up with acid house , but i also love 707 , but 909 in a club 10am in morning is feirce

[@gwEmbassy]

Hey Vinny! Thanks for the comment. Of course, I was trying to be a bit provokative with my video. You are right, it’s never tiring to listen to a 909 :)

[@sebastianotrovesi2650]

🙏❤

[@gwEmbassy]

😇

[@arnoriva]

Cool vidéo! Thanks I noticed a big difference in memory cartridge facilities between 707 and 909. The 909 allows to save only songs on a M64C, impossible to save patterns. That's different on 707, wich is possible to save entire banks of pattern. Tell me if I am wrong but I tried several time..

[@gwEmbassy]

I never tried a cartridge on the 909, but you are right about the 707

[@0713dm]

If I were at the intermediate phase I am now, and walked into a music store in the 80s, I could see myself getting a 707 for affordability and practicality’s sake, and then 20 years later regretting not getting a 909, but still very much loving the 707. Alas, today I have a TR-06, TR-09, and the, er, RD-9 🤷🏻‍♂️ heh. Btw, I’d love to see a 606 vs. 707 vid!

[@gwEmbassy]

I think I would do the same back in the 80s. A 606 vs 707 video would be a good idea, in many ways they are complimentary units. I’ll make a note on that one, thanks!

[@rachelar]

​@@gwEmbassyI got the 707 over the 606 because the latte has no clap. The seller tried to say "claps are out man" mid 80s but they soon came back in!

[@NeoBechstein]

I always was a fan of the 505. I love this cheap plastic like samples. But of course this is another story. It depends on the music but in general I like analog drum machines. On the other hand I'm also a fan of the cheap Casio sounds.... It's hard to tell. 707 and 909.... both are absolutely great machines.

[@gwEmbassy]

Yes, they are both winners :)

[@TheBroDotTV]

505 is nice - I own one!!!

[@gwEmbassy]

I like the sounds on the 505, I never understood why people dislike it

[@TheBroDotTV]

@@gwEmbassy And it's nice looking too!!!

[@gwEmbassy]

And battery power!

[@mareikemacinnes7764]

Hey Gwem, maybe you can help me further!? I have the Rd9 and now I know how to set it up so it shuffles the same way as the Tr909. Tr909: Level 1=50% (no shuffle) 2=54% 3=58% 4=62% 5=66% 6=70% 7=74% I now have the Tr8 with 7x7 expansion and would like to set the original swing to the 5 shuffle levels of the Tr707. My question is whether you can check whether the levels 1 to 5 on the Tr909 and Tr707 are identical in the swing! Or is level 2 on both machines 54% and level 5 (707) the same as level 7 on the (909) i.e. 74%? If I knew that, I could mathematically calculate the percentage of each of the 5 shuffle levels of the Tr707. I hope you're a nerd like me and just as curious to find out if and how the two shuffle machines are similar. Greetings from Germany

[@gwEmbassy]

Oooo Marieke! This is such an interesting question. For sure the 707 has very different feel to the swing than the 909, you can hear it straight away. I think the 707 is smoother and arguably nicer. I wonder if this means that the percentages are different too 🤔 I’ll make a note to look at this. As for when I will get a chance to do this, or make a video on it, I can’t say. But I agree it’s an intriguing question.

[@mareikemacinnes7764]

@@gwEmbassy That would be great if you could check it out when you get a chance. Unfortunately, Roland was not farsighted enough to realize that there were people who would like to know something like this and therefore did not provide any information on the percentage of shuffle levels in the operating instructions for the Tr 909, 707.

[@mareikemacinnes7764]

@@gwEmbassy My theory is that the first 5 shuffle levels of the two machines are the same. However, since the Tr707 triggers samples (which inherently has latency) it sounds more sloppy by the same percentage as the Tr909. Therefore, only 5 of the 7 shuffle levels of the Tr909 could possibly be implemented, since the Tr707 would have become far too imprecise at 70% and 74%.

[@gwEmbassy]

Have you see the ROM samples in the 707? They are not trimmed to the start of the sound in many cases. This will add a feeling of latency and give a feeling of unevenness, even with a straight rhythm

[@mareikemacinnes7764]

@@gwEmbassy No I didn't know that! Definitely would explain that loose feel the 707 drums have. A lot of people in hip hop still do this to generate a swing, so leave some extra air before the first transient of the sample.

[@marcpinion]

No brainer. I would get the 707 & the 727. With an 808 everything you will ever want. 909 what. I just wish Behringer would get on and clone the 707 & 727. I could not afford them at the time so I had the 505. I have a TR8S now but it’s not the same.

[@gwEmbassy]

No, the TR8 and TR8S haven’t quite got the 707 nailed. But they are super close though. The 808 is a special box too, like you say :)

[@ticketstomars]

Thanks, Gwem for this review. 707 - is there a way of Decay for drums? or at least for hihats? 707 - do you have examples of processing Kicks? is there a way fo making it sound more "Punchy" and less "Clicky"

[@gwEmbassy]

1) no 2) yes. Basically you scoop out the mids and run it through a compressor

[@g.marion5888]

Please forgive is this is a silly question, but what makes a 707 better than say a new Roland drum machine that can play 707 samples? I'm just curious what makes you seek out the vintage gear, thanks.

[@gwEmbassy]

Not at all, that is a very good question. When I sold my first 707, it was for this exact reason. I thought I could reproduce the sound with samples. To an extent, you can. One of the things I like about the 707 is the interface, which is very comfortable for me because I spent a while learning it when I was a teenager. Also important to consider is the D2A (digital to analogue) converters. Somehow the D2As in vintage gear have a much more direct and substantial sound. You can hear the difference with old samplers vs a modern one. Finally, just in general, I like the mojo and vibe of old equipment. It feels exciting to me knowing that I am using something that’s 20, 30 or even 40 years old. Something from a different era. But there is nothing wrong with new gear. Actually, new gear often has a lot more convenient features. If you pick well, it can also be cheaper and sound just as good.

[@g.marion5888]

@@gwEmbassy Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply, much appreciated! Those are all great points, and I agree 100% about the mojo factor, if something inspires you, than that's a good thing. So glad I found your channel, please keep up the great work. Cheers!

[@gwEmbassy]

Thanks for watching :)

[@jelledevries1201]

is it really about the swing kind, or more about the sounds and tempo combined with it & within..?

[@gwEmbassy]

It’s a good question. It does feel like the 707 has a lot more usable settings for the swing. It could relate to the sounds too, but I do think the 707 has a better swing algorithm.

[@jelledevries1201]

​,@@gwEmbassy Personally I think that certain sound & rhythm combinations; especially in higher tempo rates should carefully be swung if at all. Independently from the machine kind and/or algorithm.

[@jcchaconjr]

I had a TR-707 years ago - I bought it in early 1986, IIRC - I'm pretty sure it was a Birthday present to myself, haha... Seeing how some people dismiss the 707, I have to say that overall it's not a bad machine, and I too appreciated the mix sliders, not to mention the "at a glance" pattern display. My one disappointment really was with the bass. BY 1986, the sound of the 808 had already established itself as an iconic sound in the wave of Electro-Funk that became popular by the likes of Afrika Bambaataa, and a good, punchy and adjustable bass drum is where I felt the 707 fell flat (knowing years later that the sounds were sampled and not generated kind of explains the reasoning behind these design choices in retrospect). Granted, I think that the 707 was directed toward a different market, and it eventually found its niche, just like the 808 and 909 did. So not necessarily bad... just a matter of opinion. Now that I see this video, it makes me sad that I sold it (along with my Roland Alpha Juno-1) almost 20 years ago. :(

[@gwEmbassy]

The Alpha Juno 1 is a nice synth, and still quite affordable. The 707 is going up in price though of course - I guess it found it’s niche now as you said! It must have been amazing to buy a nice 707 back in ‘86, it might even have still be a new one! Or certainly not used very much. The bass drum on the 707 is not it’s strongest point. I do think you can make it acceptable. What I like about the 707 is how comfortable it is for me to use and how nicely the sounds sit in a mix. Thanks for watching the video and making a comment. I do enjoy hearing these stories from back in the day!

[@girlinagale]

I went for Tanzbär 2, it's an adventure.

[@gwEmbassy]

That thing looks like a beast, I bet it sounds great!

[@girlinagale]

@@gwEmbassy It is mysterious workflow but sounds great so any confusion is like being in a new country where you just learn at an accelerated pace and it sounds great.

[@gwEmbassy]

I had a Tanzbär Lite for a couple of days and couldn’t get into the workflow. Sounded marvellous though :) I’m pleased the big brother is inspiring you!

[@DaveBowman303]

Nah, that's a no from me. I don't buy into the 909 hype as much as most, but the clicky nature of the 707 unfortunately limits it's sonic potential. Now the 727, that's a different matter. Still, if you put it up against an 808 I would agree with you.

[@gwEmbassy]

that’s a great opinion Dave 👍

[@alpharisc]

The crash and ride are the same physical instruments, there was this interview with the guy who brought his cymbals in to record for both. I think I still prefer the TR-909 by quite a bit over the TR-707, for me the TR-707 just sounded like a poor Linndrum. The first time I heard the TR-909 I liked it, if I was in a shop in 1985 deciding what to buy, I would have got both and figured out how to pay them off later :)

[@gwEmbassy]

These are good thoughts Alpharisc! Knowing what we know now, I think I’d have been trying to buy both in that shop too :-D

[@chrisvanco4694]

Hi, i still have a 707 and a 606, had my beloved 808 for 10 years, i miss it so bad... To me the 707 and 808 are more suitable for different styles, especially the 808, from Techno, Electro to Hip Hop, R&B, Industrial, New Wave... The 909 is a superb sounding instrument, iconic, way more stuck into Techno and House, maybe some Hip Hop. All sounds great, it's up to you (and your money...) to pick to one closest to your taste... Between the 707 and the 909, i found the 707 thinner and more metallic sounding than the 909, the one to shake the place :)

[@gwEmbassy]

That’s beautifully explained Chris!

[@chrisvanco4694]

@@gwEmbassy Thanks :)

[@UncleGordon1978]

I'm using both for techno

[@gwEmbassy]

Perfect choices

[@atarirob]

I think in a perfect world, we'd all have 909's. Trouble is, you will simply never find these for a couple hundred pounds in the back of a newspaper any more. Used prices are just silly, as of writing they have surpassed the £5k mark (about 7000USD) which is shocking. The 707 is still somewhat affordable if you neglect eBay and look on places like Gumtree or Marketplace where the prices aren't so insane. I like them both, Squarepusher's song 'Tundra' features an extended 707 sequence towards the final third of the track and it sounds huge too.

[@gwEmbassy]

Great points here. I’ll check out that Squarepusher track!

[@atarirob]

gwEm’s gwEmbassy The 707 kicks in at exactly 5 minutes in...absolutely masterful programming. Enjoy :) great video btw!

[@gwEmbassy]

That is very well programmed! You clearly hear it’s a 707

[@atarirob]

@gwEm’s gwEmbassy From the liner notes: ‘The TR-707 drum part, Inspired by Plug’s ‘Military Jazz’, used all of the internal 64 patterns.’ I cannot even fathom programming 64 patterns for a single 30 second section lol

[@DrunkenElvis]

Well, the TR-808; TR-909 & TB-303 with a Jupiter 8 and Juno 6 is the golden combination, but that's ofcourse personal taste and preference.

[@gwEmbassy]

That’s quite a combination Tom!!

[@jeredalmeida1880]

Sure... Just as soon as I dip into the old trust fund and maybe sell that extra Maybach that's been collecting dust in my driveway. You pretentious hipster. For shame...

[@banjoplayingbison2275]

Honestly for me I think the only weak part of the 707 is the kick drum. To me it sounds like someone hitting a cardboard box Everyone talks about how weak the 606 kick is but I would contend that the 707 kick is worse (I actually don’t mind the 606 kick (but I deeply love the 606 so I might be biased) Other than that the 707 has a lot of great sounds and if you want an original 80 a drum machine it’s far cheaper than an 808 and 909

[@gwEmbassy]

I agree about the weak point of the 707 being the kick drum. You can heavily process it, and get it to sound good, but out the box, it is disappointing. The 606 kick is a little weak, but I agree it is far more usable.

[@rachelar]

I sold my TR707 as it only had 4 song memory. Thus, useless for a full gig (unless I possibly had a cartridge tho I don't know that increases songs). The TR 909 had 8 songs (and no cartridge?). People suggested programing two consecutive songs into one song slot playing immediately after, but that wouldn't ve worked with the limited memory of the one song per disc sequencer I was using at the time...

[@gwEmbassy]

I’ve never used song mode on either. The 909 can take the same cartridge as the 707, but there’s not really a need as it has more memory. It’s fairly easy to use up all the memory on the 707 as you point out.

[@spinyuk]

I'm not a musician, and from your vid, the 909 sounds better, but from the bands and music I love, its clear they all cheaped out and used the 707 , so that gets my vote :)

[@gwEmbassy]

:-D thanks for watching Spiny :)

[@redshift4707]

i own both machines,707 is cool,but the 909 it's a real beast

[@gwEmbassy]

I understand your point of view :)

[@redshift4707]

@@gwEmbassy also worth to consider the humble TR626 which i prefer over the 707 for the double sound set,the pitch control and decay on the samples,indiv.out and trigger out ,really great machine but soundwise i prefer the grittiness of the 505 above all of them,just a matter of taste,i do share a lot of consideration you did in the video

[@cali4tune]

Controls go to 707? lol. Look the 707 really has nothing special to offer in 2021. Sample playback units just don't age well as far as usefulness. The 909 has its analog parts that you can at least argue are still special. The 707 as you point out may be best used as a functional piece (clock between MIDI and DIN Sync device) in a retro setup.

[@gwEmbassy]

I don’t quite agree with that. If it makes sound, then it’s relevant to make music in any time period.

[@vincevega8127]

The problem with most of these videos! No one I know that has these units, use them without a mixer/ eq or pre amps, and most cases use individual out as well, hence. Things about tones and limits don’t exist period. There are no limits or sweet spots on the 909 kick as example! Cuz eq and pre amps can change a lot of the tone and fullness. I do like his attention to details and his love for the units. Keep up the great work,,,, I would like to see how people use these units to make actual music that is being released, or live performances with them. That in my opinion is how these unit shine. 😊

[@gwEmbassy]

I sure do love these old bits of kit!

[@ASH-ou4cg]

I have a TR-707 and a TR-09.

[@gwEmbassy]

Cool combination!

[@fabioluisdesouzaleandro5486]

TR-909!!!

[@gwEmbassy]

A rightful classic :)

[@falangistavaleroso9689]

I consider the hats on the 707 the best ever ( in fact are 4 bit samples of the same real hat) btw my 909 never allowed me to ext mode as this, might have some midi board broken? but the 909 drum is way better. pasting: With the TR-909, not only can you program patterns using the 909's internal drum sounds, but you can also program MIDI notes 36 - 51 on an external instrument. Many people in the 90s would use the 909's external instrument mode to trigger drum hits on their samplers, but in this video, I'm using one 909 to program the base line and a 2nd 909 to play chords on my JD-800.

[@gwEmbassy]

Hi Falangista! Thanks for watching. I actually have a video about the ext mode kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmWco5-Ohb6Wr9E

[@falangistavaleroso9689]

@@gwEmbassy let me see, i think my 909 is defective since never could do that.

[@gwEmbassy]

I hope it will turn out to be ok!

[@UncleGordon1978]

hey man you did a mistake at approx ~3:15 you started saying that tr707 have volume sliders and 909 not it's not a "real" mistake but you can get 909's volume 707 alike sliders with a simple analog stuido mixer, I must say

[@gwEmbassy]

That is a good point Alexander

[@leflamantrosefpv1725]

i prefer the snare of the 707, i use it for a loooooong time ;) only this ;)

[@gwEmbassy]

It’s a good snare :)

[@wesstarmedia]

The 909 always sounds like an 'additional percussion' module to me? It's too abstract to be upfront in anything but old house.

[@gwEmbassy]

Interesting view! It’s certainly over used :)

[@hINC]

I LOVE the 909 and have to disagree with the Kick and Snare only having one great sound. If you lower the Attack and increase the Decay, you'll end up with 808ish-sounding kicks, while maxing the Attack will give you the punchy 909 Kick which the 808 never does. The snare is also pretty versatile and I do like all its variations. Without the noise it can be used as a 4th Tom if you like. That being said, I am excited for both a 707 and 727 to arrive at my studio soon. I think they're different and you really can't compare them. 707 vs. 505 vs. 626, yes. But 808, 909 and 707 (with it's aforementioned siblings)... not really compareable. They DO complement each other well, I think.

[@gwEmbassy]

I expect you will love the 727 with the 909. I love all these machines really and was trying to poke people into action a little bit with the video title. The section of the video where I test the swing of the two machines sort of highlights why the 909 is prized more than the 707. The 707 is still my favourite drum machine though :)

[@hINC]

@@gwEmbassy I knew you were, hehe. Trying to energize people by poking them :-) I rarely use swing, but I do use the three steps of loudness quite a lot. What I find interesting is when I fire 909 samples from my Akai MPC adjacent to those coming from the 909. For cymbals and snare especially. It can be annoyingly "too much", but once you're with certain limits, it's fabulous. Sometimes I can't even tell which is which. And the 909 samples I use are not from my 909. I am looking forward to giving the 727 a chance. Upfront; I'd say that I don't really like percussion instruments and I do know that I like the 707 sounds a lot. You could say that I don't have much expectations from the 727, but that actually is a great starting point I guess. We'll see, I just can't wait for them to arrive...

[@gwEmbassy]

Synthmania has done a few demonstrations of the 909 and 727 together and the congas etc compliment well the 909. I love the 707 sounds too of course and have used the on many tracks. I hope you enjoy your new toys :)

[@ASH-ou4cg]

@@hINC You sound like you don't deserve the 727! LOL. I have been wanting one for a very long time, but they are quite pricey for me, so I always lose out. I think you will enjoy it and as mentioned, it compliments the 909 VERY well, even better than with the 707, which was suppose to be its partner.

[@hINC]

@@ASH-ou4cg It will be loved :-D

[@andrewhorton5101]

My 707 lags noticeably behind anything else when its sounds are trigged by an external MIDI sequencer. Kicks flam against other drum machines, etc. It’s a bummer.

[@gwEmbassy]

That is interesting to hear!

[@notsure1135]

Your name is George Monbiot.

[@gwEmbassy]

Well, he wears glasses as well I guess and has messy hair..

[@dpalaoro]

man the tr707 OH sounds quite different.

[@gwEmbassy]

it sure does :)

[@cubdukat]

Interesting you'd choose these two to compare. The only thing they have in common apart from them both being Roland drum boxes is that they both have sampled cymbals. But, not being a fan of the 909 or analog drum boxes in general, I'd take the 707. Unless I was doing a cover of Phil Collins' "Take Me Home" or Madonna's "Vogue," I can't ever imagining a situation where I'd need a 909. The one gripe I'd have with the 707 is that the samples were too short. Even the snare samples the LinnDrum used were longer.

[@gwEmbassy]

Agreed, some of those 707 samples have been rather aggressively chopped.

[@rachelar]

Save your money and process the 707 sounds via the indiv puts. 909 is for studios or rich DJs paid massive advances

[@gwEmbassy]

Wise words :)

[@303g]

I think the clock out is better on the 707 ,it more on beat 909 is sluggish but you could say it's Funker ,so you go from sharper click outs like acid house to more 909 funky Detroit techno 90s seq/clocked lines .

[@gwEmbassy]

Thanks for the comment G D. You are probably right!

[@lownrgy]

try 707 clock in :)

[@UncleGordon1978]

By the way I like 707 kick more than 909! ! ! Hey, don't you know any pedals that could make 909 kick more.. I don't know... lo-fi profile??

[@gwEmbassy]

I’ve never tried to grunge up the 909 kick. The Zoom MS pedals do have a bitcrusher setting which might work. Affordable pedals too.

[@chinmeysway]

Maybe some type high pass filtering. Sounds like it has distortion so hard to really take that out but you could do the reverse; add distortion to the 707 kick.

[@UncleGordon1978]

@@chinmeysway it worked awesom!!

[@ASH-ou4cg]

To me, I really don't like the swing on the 707. I find it unuseable above 2, where as a swing setting of 3 sounds best on the 909.

[@gwEmbassy]

The swing is definitely more extreme on the 707. It depends beat itself, but you don’t want to do too crazy with it! I usually have it on 2 or 3 for that slippery house sound.

[@NTRSN-Archive]

i'm not the biggest fan from 707 and 909 . The winner for me is the Korg DDD1 and if you want Roland the 626 is a goodie with pitch control and more sounds .

[@gwEmbassy]

Interesting choice of the DDD-1. I’ve always wanted to try one. I suppose one issues that holds back the comparison is that it doesn’t have an x0x 16 step interface. It does have a sampling feature though, which I’m keen to try.

[@NTRSN-Archive]

@@gwEmbassy well i had luck when i bought my Ddd1 the sample board was inside and i payed 70 euro for the complete machine . i fixed the broken or worn out switches with new ones and new battery pack for the sample board and memory battery inside the machine . Yes its absolute not the x0x way to program this unit but i have no problems with . The sounds pitch , decay , nuance programming functions are superior on the ddd . this machine had the functions from a Roland r8 only years before the R8 .

[@leucatevoilerie4621]

When 707 is midi slave with my daw, the din sync out becomes OFF… too bad, i wanted to clock a 606 with this port…

[@gwEmbassy]

Can you set it up so the 707 is the master?

[@patcummins1405]

The cymbals on the 909 are samples rather than analogue, so probably is the exact same samples as on the 707

[@gwEmbassy]

I address this in the video. I don’t think the samples are the same, having viewed dumps of the ROM data. The certainly do sound very very close though!

[@ASH-ou4cg]

@@gwEmbassy For me, they never did. I find they sound VERY different and am always left scratching my head when I read others say they 'may be the same sample'.

[@lundsweden]

I like the 727 better than the 707, which in turn is better than a 737 IMO.

[@gwEmbassy]

737? 🤔

[@lundsweden]

@@gwEmbassy Well they were all Boeing models, 707, 727, I just put in 737 for some fun!

[@gwEmbassy]

😅😅

[@toitoitoy]

707 is better you can add more sounds with HKA design Rom expansion

[@gwEmbassy]

Yes you can! I have a video about the ROM expansion too :)

[@kollusion1]

707, twinned with a 727 for me. Never really liked the sound of the 909, too commercial, & a poor man's Linn.

[@gwEmbassy]

We did hear those 909 sounds a lot by now, too much maybe. The 707 doesn’t have the same level of cliche.

[@matthewstein1110]

Wasn’t the 707 the response to the Linn and not the 909, though?

[@gwEmbassy]

Interesting question Matthew. The LinnDrum came out in 1982, so if it was a response then it was quite a delayed one. You might be right though, I don’t know for sure!

[@Flashback_Jack]

Why compare them when you could own a TR-8S? ;)

[@gwEmbassy]

Who wants a boring modern thing? ;)

[@Flashback_Jack]

@@gwEmbassy Well, as someone that owns a 909 himself, they're not all they're cracked up to be. Plus, the TR-8S can do things the 909 could only dream of--and it has the 909 built-in, as well as the 808, 707, 606 and other drum machines.

[@gwEmbassy]

I guess it’s all a question of personal taste. The TR-8 (non-S) which I have also has those things. It just excites me more personally if the gear is vintage or weird in some way. The TR-8S is a marvellous bit of kit and I’m sure it does everything you need!

[@Flashback_Jack]

@@gwEmbassy True, and there's some rhetoric in it I admit. There is no subsituting punching those old IBM terminal-like 1980s keys--not to mention the TR-909 I paid about $1,700 Canadian for about ten years ago is worth almost $10,000 today. May it continue to rise; I might be able to buy a house at the rate the price is rising.

[@rachelar]

More cowbell! So 707

[@gwEmbassy]

definitely :)

[@FairchlldMusic1]

Jeff Mills would disagree with you on the sweet spots of the 909 😉

[@gwEmbassy]

And he would certainly know too!

[@rachelar]

Objectively, the 909 is just for real time use of those cliché (or "iconic") kick and snare. And with the individual outs you can process all the sounds anyway. The 707 honestly was a step forward with the nice display and the level controls are great for v minimal techno DJ sets (getting round the limited 4 song memory by instead live mixing paterrns tho I doubt many DJs actually did this)

[@gwEmbassy]

Yes! That’s exactly what I feel Rachel. Nice to have someone agreeing :)

[@F-Andre]

Nope

[@rachelar]

Yep​@@F-Andre

[@falangistavaleroso9689]

I should have not sold my 707 and 727 back on 1996.

[@gwEmbassy]

Yes, but I understand. At that time people did not appreciate what these machines can do as much. The last years have treated these machines well.

[@Decoy303]

707 kick drum just sounds better. It is way more versatile.

[@gwEmbassy]

It’s versatile for many different styles. But it is less heavy for techno.

[@wackerburg]

Blasphemy ;-) I do prefer the 909. Still, the 707 is great. Especially the tambourine, which isn't that spectacular on the 909.

[@gwEmbassy]

The tambourine sound is useful on the 707. I like it too, and should use it more myself.

[@wackerburg]

@@gwEmbassy That was actually a serious thought of mine. It really adds something to a 909 beat. So do the 707 toms for fills. Love them

[@petro_420_69_]

have to disagree with you on the accent thing. individual instrument accents can make a pattern sound quite dynamic. global accent is kind of frustrating imo if you just want to accent the hi-hats or snare or whatever but the bass drum is lumped in there

[@gwEmbassy]

Well made point

[@Ni5ei]

Sorry but I've had both and the 707 is so boring. At the time it was cool because it sounded more like real drums but I soon got tired of it. Not that I like the sound of the 909 but it's moe interesting and versatile. Sold both and no regrets. I still do regret selling my 808 though.

[@gwEmbassy]

No need to apologise - all subjective :) The 808 is very special, nothing really compares.

[@tomladdus9264]

707 wins, more cowbell!!

[@gwEmbassy]

Ha! Yes, it wins that category for sure ;)

[@rachelar]

Yeah, I ve got a fever and the prescription is tr707 cowbell

[@fender1000100]

Both good but overrated in music history. The TR626 is better and more versatile. And a Yamaha RX5 is way better. But that's the power of celebrity use. I had two 909s back in 1985 when nobody wanted them. When the acid/house/techno craze hit in 89. Their prices skyrocketed. I sold them both for over a grand each in the old Loot. My phone was ringing off the hook. Simply because they were being used by top producers.

[@gwEmbassy]

I do think the 909 is overrated, and the 707 is becoming that way too. I love hearing these old stories. When I first started to make music at the end of the 90s the Loot was still a thing, eBay quickly took over though! Do you regret selling those 909s or do you wish you kept one of them?

[@gwEmbassy]

What I don’t like about the 626 and 505, is that for some reason having the 16 buttons split in two rows has never quite gelled with me.

[@fender1000100]

@@gwEmbassy Hi no I dont regret it. I bought a proteus 1 with the money from one of them. And I still have it..And it is alot more useful to me than a 909 has some amazing sounds. It's like those other two roland boxes that went nuclear in price. The TR808 and the TB303. I saw a TR808 on Ebay the other day for £4200. That's just RIDICULOUS..You have to be a mug or a millionaire to pay that kind of money for a drumachine.

[@fender1000100]

@@gwEmbassy The 505 is okay what I call a good workhorse machine. Theres a cat on here that records to old analogue cassette. And reel to reel. And he has a 505 and makes it sound really good and punchy. The TR626 suffers from the same thing the YAMAHA RX5 suffers from. TIMING in music history. They both hit a few years too late. Had they come out in 1984/5. They would have legendary status now. By the time they came out the sampler craze had kicked in with the Akai machines. And the workstation era had started with the M1. If you check my channel you will see what an RX5 is capable of. It is MORE THAN A DRUM MACHINE. I made the mistake of lending it to a friend recently who had it stolen. Now I have to use my DX11 or PROTEUS 1 for drums. The 626 has a more flexible sound than the 707. And can be tuned. But nothing touched the editing capabilities of the RX5. It is more like a drum synthesizer than a drum machine.

[@gwEmbassy]

I guess they are more icons or bits of music history at this point