Why This Halo Developer Went Indie (And Completely Solo!) - Full Time Game Dev Podcast Ep. 010

I chat with Joe Winter, creator of Song of Iron, and why he left Triple A to become an indie!
► Wishlist Song of Iron 2: store.steampowered.com/app/19...
► Get Song of Iron: store.steampowered.com/app/12...
► Learn how to become a full time game dev, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Enroll in my 3D workshop, free!: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Make your game instantly beautiful with my free workbook: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Get my 2D game kit, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Join my 2D character workshop, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Wishlist Twisted Tower: store.steampowered.com/app/15...
► Learn how to make money as a KZbinr: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► What I believe: • What I Believe

[@thomasbrush]

Isn't Joe the best? ► Wishlist Song of Iron 2: store.steampowered.com/app/1979660/Song_of_Iron_2/ ► Get Song of Iron: store.steampowered.com/app/1258220/Song_of_Iron/ Thanks for watching! Hope you learned a ton. ► Learn how to become a full time game dev, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-how-to-make-six-figures ► Enroll in my 3D workshop, free!: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-15-minute-3D-game ► Make your game instantly beautiful with my free workbook: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-instant-beauty-color-workbook ► Get my 2D game kit, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-2D-game-kit ► Join my 2D character workshop, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-2d-character-art-workshop ► Wishlist Twisted Tower: store.steampowered.com/app/1575990/Twisted_Tower/ ► Learn how to make money as a KZbinr: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-indie-game-income-workshop

[@calebkrauter4027]

Curious if you're planning a blackfriday sale for fulltime gamedev. I'll be finishing colllege in fall and I'm hoping to save up and snatch it sometime for when I complete college.

[@jaredpeck87]

39:51 what about “Song of Ion” just drop the “r” from iron and it stays connected to the original and now has a sci-fi tie-in, if you don’t mind me weighing in! Great interview and good luck on SoI too!

[@RandomNPC15]

That idea might be too good.

[@Helthurian]

I personally gave SoI 1 a 6.5/10, but saw what he was going for. I looked at it like Witcher 1, cool world, some good ideas, but fairly jank. I'm not too surprised he decided to go back to regular employment in the interim because Seattle isn't a cheap market so $200-300k doesn't go far. I wish him the best with SoI 2 and I hope it ends up being somewhat of a Witcher 2 swing for him.

[@IrishZOMBIE117]

It's comforting to hear other indie devs saying what I've been practicing. I was worried that I was possibly doing something wrong with this method of waiting to market until certain key milestones in both game development progress and timeline to full launch but to hear that even 3D realms is doing this is really affirming.

[@Iamjake1000]

Same I've been holding off on an LLC until a certain point until I actually see a release happening and marketing...

[@Alex_Dul]

"Song of Iron and stardust" could work. People who played the first one will get it and a new audience would be clueless of it being a sequel.

[@Tbjbu2]

Hi Thomas, thanks for another great interview. Btw, wishlists don't really degrade after a few months... there was a study about this by Chris.

[@No-One.321]

Yeah he is really trying to look for reasons why he kind of failed. Instead of looking at his product and saying the gameplay actual sucks and I didn't do anything I could to get those early reviews.

[@quinnleavitt4105]

I think there's still something to what they're saying though. Building hype in the last 6 months seems like a good strategy for explosive growth given that you have a good hook/game that fills a need from gamers.

[@TheSnyderman25]

just want to thank you for all the knowledge you share for free with the community man, so valuable

[@Cyanimation]

Great PodCast! Out of curiosity, I browse for gameplay of Song of Iron 2. That game looks great. I just saw a dude playing it. The 1st ... mmm... 3 minutes (maybe) looked good. He obviously played the 1st one and commented on how much better the controls are. I was watching up until I saw that giant Ogre thing...(whatever, it came out the woods) I then had to write to let Joe know that, his 2nd game will surpass his 1st (easily) I mean the dude had mud on his face when he rolled around. I am a bit concerned about the name change Thomas Recommended though... I understand but I was able to find it because of that name. So people looking at this podcast will only know to look for it under the name you have atm.

[@TheSnyderman25]

Agreed, I would call the game Song of Iron 2. I think there's a small possibility that some negative perception of the first could be held against it. But as you point out, the name already being out there seems like it should be too big of a commitment to back out of now. Besides, the name IS cool and it does seemingly reflect the vibes/motif of the game. But I think Thomas does have a good point about "Song of Neon" and reflecting the story development from the first game. Interesting discussion.

[@DesignedByTaz]

Loving your podcasts man!!!

[@SolidHns]

Awesome interview! Some great points in there. Good luck with your game!

[@kizuna.gamestudio]

Amazing interview!!, good luck with your new game

[@RockyMulletGamedev]

I do agree with Joe on the "part 2" thing. Personally I do not feel like I need to play the previous games when I play a sequel and it does make me feel like there's some legitimacy coming from a sequel, like the first one was good enough to make a second one, so it must be somewhat good. Specially since it's a game people are most likely to have heard of even tho they didnt play. I remember this game, I remember hearing about it, I didnt play tho. But if you hear about a sequel, you can think "oh I missed that game, but they made another one, I guess I missed out".

[@ElianeGameDev]

Thanks for the podcast!

[@ADawg478]

This channel is awesome just discovered it will be binge watching for a while to catch up

[@michalrv3066]

These podcasts are great. Thank you

[@shivc03]

Really loving these podcasts. Maybe you should do one with lost relic games. Would be cool

[@austincrist7581]

Great discussion, gave me a lot to think about! I've had the same thoughts about trailers spoiling things. But maybe if the trailer can spoil the "best part", it wasn't a strong enough concept to begin with. What connects the most dots in the game? Maybe THAT'S how I should start my trailer. Portal gun. Moody bug sword metroidvania. Rubber-hose run-and-gun boss battles. When the concept is that good, people CAN'T GET ENOUGH of it. Or, if that "central dot" is boring or cliche ("jump over a pit the end"), maybe it's time for me to pick a new center dot. I mean, SOME part of the game interests me even after knowing about it, right? And if keeping that thing a mystery until later really IS core to the concept, what makes it cool to NOT know that thing? I should sell the mystery - the thing NOT known or something adjacent to it - HARD (What is the matrix? How will you get inside the City 17 vault? Kid sees dead people who don't know they're dead, what would that be like? wink wink) and build the game around THAT. (Side note: I think sequels can get away with revealing less dots because they get a bunch of dots for free; simply saying it's a sequel is enough to make people start connecting tiny details to the rest of the franchise in their head. Unless they've never heard of it, then they just connect it to "the devs made a second one.") ...I hope this wasn't too much rambling, haha. Thanks for sharing!

[@animanaut]

56:25 reminds me of 'no hello' policy when it comes to chat messages, just ask the damn question already

[@ricktyner5801]

I think the launch promotion is now like Williams getting everyone to hold fire until they are right next to the Black Pearl in the POTC....

[@wondervolt]

thoroughly enjoyed this video 🤩

[@Djirka19]

Cool stuff! Really good insights

[@AetherXIV]

this was really good real talk. thanks Thomas

[@devratgames]

Great stuff here!

[@animanaut]

rather technical, but i would be interested in automation topics, especially for solo devs. in my daily work i have to deal with ci/cd, but i have no idea how this would look like for gamedev and solo gamedevs in particular. a good automation pipeline is nice, but also takes away time initially to get built.

[@owencoopersfx]

Curious what the FMOD issue is for porting to console… too bad that wasn’t explored a bit more.

[@TUKMAK]

Inscryption. The game marketed itself

[@smokeydahbher]

So, if I put out a demo, then I shouldn’t set up a wishlist page if it’ll take me another 18 months to finish?

[@nursultannazarov8379]

So what's FMOD and is that a bad thing in consoles? I didn't get that part.

[@user-yy2pk8zg7z]

Let's go ❤

[@domino4843]

Halo Dev: That's cool, he probably has a lot of insightful things to say. 343 Halo Dev: Never mind.

[@dreyga2]

hahahahaha

[@TheFreshMakerHD]

oh damn i remember seeing this guys progress on reddit..... i thought it was just some teenager making their first project lol

[@abrahamjaleel9463]

Wouldnt it be easier to stand out in the A.I era of games? because I reckon the quality of the games is gonna dip to make games faster using A.I. So making something that takes time and is high quality is gonna stand out much more in the sea of meh A.I games. idk just a thought.

[@tartoras]

The problem with Halo games is so many people love em and wanna make em better and the people who own it DON'T GIVE A F***

[@No-One.321]

Good interview. He is coping hard instead of just being upfront with himself. He made a beautiful game, but the game play is actually trash, it isn't that long of game so people don't have to play it very long to be like ok i don't like it and it's not getting better, he didn't focus and get a bunch of early reviews like he should have. He had a partnership with Microsoft and didn't get a couple decent size KZbinrs to stream on launch Day? Sounds like he did almost everything wrong except get the wishlists. Step one, make a decent or better game, step two, get wishlists, step 3 get a handful of positive reviews day one. Step 4 get a couple KZbinrs to play it on launch or right before. If you do those 4 things it should very hard to fail. He only did the wishlist.

[@unk511]

Man, he makes 200-300k, I don't think he failed. He could do better? Of course, any game can.

[@jaulloa21]

The best way to make a game is to not make one. Let it make you

[@marcmuniz2119]

That's deep fr lol

[@GreedAndSelfishness]

That's....dumb.

[@lightoflifegames7227]

❤🎉 thanks for the video, God help us!

[@gamesbyrd]

Why yall got same pink and blue colors?

[@KekoahJones]

every youtube setup always has pink and blue light for some reason

[@CharleyThePostman]

Kinda funny. I wonder if they do it because they want to match Thomas' colors. BTW, did you know magenta doesn't exist? Our brain fills in the gap of violet and blue. I wonder if it draws the eye better for that reason.

[@KekoahJones]

@@CharleyThePostman I notice tons of KZbinrs do it

[@Urotsuki]

the average generic youtuber lighting x_x

[@CharleyThePostman]

@@KekoahJones Yeah? I wouldn't know, as I only watch like, 5 youtubers. I guess they just...like pink? I wonder where the trend started.

[@jackcarren8781]

Multiple sequels have been more successful than the original in the gaming world: L4D2, Helldivers 2, Half-Life 2, Etc. Don't change your name. Stick with it.

[@Cinetiste]

If players of massively multiplayers online games "eat content for breakfast", this is because the menu change constantly, they must work regularly for the chance to obtain a specific meal, which value varies, and they may never have the chance to obtain it again, while knowing that someday the restaurant will close if they do not go to it often enough...

[@DrN0VA.]

As much as I want to want Joe talk, Thomas you have to be the most insufferable dude to watch. There were multiple times you interrupted him and seemed to completely lose interest in the conversation, presumably looking away at another monitor or staring into space.