Why Throne And Liberty Combat Feels So Bad

[@Neeko2lo]

I have double and triple checked the auto attacks slowing you down now and I can confirm that it does! What a weird "feature"

[@ElfTaleFilms]

The attack range seems very large. In many other games you have to be almost inside

[@Casual_BackPacking]

Lol the attack range in throne is more realistic, wow is cartoon range

[@Ao2BairdTUR]

its not slowing you down. At all. its an animation. The more movespeed you have. You can tell its not slowing you down, its just turning your character. so it looks jank

[@Steve_R418]

It was the same in New World. If you played New World PVP melee always felt clunky because someone with a bow for instance could literally just walk away from you if you were melee and basically infinitely kite you. Every swing with melee weapon they would just get farther away. New World is not a tab target game but they tried to fix this issue in a few ways and never really were able to

[@YisuniBDO]

I think this is one of your best articulated videos. Holding the MMO genre accountable for subpar slop that's barely passable and we eat up (including myself) because we have nothing innovative or fresh to play anymore. The games that have good things going for them are severely lacking in other areas making the games feel incomplete and dry. Or they have extremely egregious issues that outweigh the 1 thing they do right. Throne could be decent with some smoothing of the rough edges but as of right now it feels like the game is fighting against you consistently.

[@Neeko2lo]

I appreciate that. I tried to make this one much less emotional and more actually digging in. I think throne outside of the combat at least provides alot of different kinds of content (albeit not innovative either).

[@YisuniBDO]

@@Neeko2lo Yeah, unfortunately when you're passionate about things it's easy to get emotional. I dont mind it at all, but the general populous will discredit you just because you say something in a mean/emotional way. And yeah I think it has the basic foundation to be a good mmo but they have to fix things. I hate that things are timegated in the endgame like a gacha game limiting you to only be able to play X amount a day. And a lot of the jank bugs you talked about are just rly damning. Lots of QOL needs to happen.

[@Neeko2lo]

@@YisuniBDO Big reason why I cant play retail WoW too, timegating is so obnoxious. I wish someone would release a game with content for a year or two straight up.

[@tobtheking18]

Yeah the whole combat/movement system feels very very very weird imo

[@The_Choob]

Great summary - I feel like so many other TL content creators just sweep the mobile game combat under the rug; for a PvP focused game especially, combat design and feel should be the number one priority.

[@shara30000]

ranged is like having a fucking spear. whats the point of having freaking crossbows if i gotta fire them 5 inches from the bosses knee

[@Neeko2lo]

also felt that

[@Barcia14]

Yeah staff and wand feel terrible too for that exact reason. Why am I supposed to launch a fireball from such a close range?

[@GamingDualities]

@@Barcia14 u can upgrade their specilazation for more range etc

[@kaidestinyz]

Yeah, it's so trash. I wanted to do crossbow/bow and when I realized how short the distance was, I was like "Forget it. This is bullshit."

[@Sladverr]

@@GamingDualities that's bad design. I think abilities should have decent ranges default and options to make them longer range at a cost of damage or something, but range upgrades just to make abilities not feel like crap to use is just...

[@cyborg7162]

consquence of a mobile game that shifted into computer,console release during the development cycle -> clunky af

[@arristo4860]

PC top down -> mobile -> rework ->3D it was something like this

[@chelo136]

Is a g2w mobile version but just 30 times worst

[@arristo4860]

​@@chelo136 Only 30 :) you are too good with them for 2024 It Is like Dead on arrival ,example aion (2012) has better combat system than TL 2024 (ncsoft). Not Mention that steam charts show about 261kk from 330kk of first week . Need Turbo buffs in combat idk if they will do did not learn something feel free to tell if you know something.

[@batman05655]

It was a top down lost ark competitor first. Was supposed to be cross play on all devices then they transitioned to third person

[@Muniaczek90]

The auto attack, auto moving thing is what makes me fail dungeons as a healer. Why tf my character moves towards the boss when he is not targeted when i cast foutain of life and send my character to auto attack closest enemy EVERY DAMN TIME! and the autoattack when boss teleports around but not having camera moving with the attack is what irritates me the most! I keep cancelling the attacks but they resume by themselfs when i use healing skills on my teammates... 😢

[@alexbryda]

Can they fix this though? Is it possible? I really like the game but once you are versing a ton of mobs on screen it's hard to target and switch between specific targets you want to

[@coreycato6087]

This is really good feedback some of what you have mentioned i didnt notice myself. Hope they receive this and make the necessary adjustments/fixes.

[@Neeko2lo]

ty!

[@Arrakiss20]

I was thinking the whole yesterday, why exactly the melee combat feels so off to me... This explained everything :D

[@arristo4860]

Some Friends Insisted to play this, after 3 hours I was well thats why they have 270kk people peak hour(steam charts) .....melee combat is a meme 😓

[@vree_]

ArcheAge (2013) and Guild Wars 2 (2012) did tab-target combat right imo. The combat feels like you have aim assist but arent ever locked in your movement. Kinda sad that a MMO from 2024 has actually regressed instead of innovated and learned from those games.

[@SentientBasil]

if they made a few tiny easy to make changes to make combat more like gw2 would be so appreciate

[@nou2716]

GW2 combat is legit really really good. Slept on mmo imho.

[@MrVorech]

Actually hard for me to play any other MMo after gw2 every tab target Feels like shit :DD

[@eThugz]

people stop forgetting this is a mobile game lolol what do you expect

[@Oryyyt]

Gw2 had actual hitboxes even if they're very large. TnL's combat model is practically all hitscan save for a very few skillshot skills so everything has the illusion of visually connecting 100% but hits or misses are actually all decided by RnG. Even if there's an enemy between you and your target your skill will ignore it and only hit your target if it's not an AOE skill.

[@Kuptofity]

I always play melee in every MMO but here after being used to Warrior in WoW I could not have fun. I had to pick the longbow and staff so it doesnt feel so clunky trying to hit anything.

[@briansilva5863]

I wanted to love the game. I was so excited for its release. I played it and was immensely disappointed with the combat. The targeting system is so unreliable and annoying.

[@truthseeker7172]

What mmorpg do you prefer atm?

[@redrepublic5557]

Was also gonna ask which MMO he plays lmao.. this shit brings back original RuneScape nostalgia

[@notrisu]

30 hours in and the experience was insufferable, especially with the combat and movements. The janky camera when morphing into bird makes jumping puzzles a living hell, also no traversal ability, no vaulting over obstacles and unreliable grappling hooks. The only saving grace was its environment and dynamic quests/field bosses. I just want a combat system like Blade and Souls but I guess it's too much to ask for

[@Forbidden_Chocolate]

same. I have fun when i play it but once i stop i have no urge to comeback, im not excited, i don't think about the game when im not playing it, i guess it's not doing it for me. looks cool tho

[@Axely]

just slap the jump thinggy from GW2 on, the combat from Tera Online or Lost Ark x Action combat into TL, then should be aite

[@robs6404]

@@Axely what’s crazy is years ago it was Lost Ark x Action combat then they scrapped it all for this..

[@Oryyyt]

In a perfect world(not the game). Sadly this ain't it

[@Rafalga84]

Because this was a mobile game at the start. The whole "move to target" is the left over fragment of auto-combat feature present in almost all mobile combat games. It needs a complete overhaul of the combat and movement to make it feel even remotely playable. I think past iterations even had an "offline grind" feature and it flopped even in Korea. The land of p2w mmos.

[@SweHisatsu]

Only feels clunky early because of low attack speed stats, as soon as you get to lvl 50 and start gearing you will notice the "clunkyness" wearing off more and more. The reason is because "attack speed" in this game isnt only for auto attacks but also decides how fast you pull off your skills and how long the global CD between skills is. Im at lvl 50 with 2k GS and i can honestly say the combat is fluuuiid and smooth af, huge difference between now and early levels.

[@australienski6687]

My experience was the opposite, the game feels way worse at level 50.

[@sonfable8809]

Keep telling this yourself. It still looks and plays animations like you are playing dragon’s raja.

[@abbadonvr9045]

why do i need to wait for the game to get better? why can't the combat just be smooth from the get-go what is this game design where the game is frustrating on purpose and you need to arbitrarily get to the end for the game to be fun

[@SweHisatsu]

@@abbadonvr9045 because progressing, evolving and feeling your character getting faster and stronger is a big part of the game. it's literally in the name, "role" playing game

[@australienski6687]

@@SweHisatsu That's not what "role" means.

[@TheShmann]

Thank you for this amazing summary. This is exactly why the combat feels so bad. In my opinion a MMO will rise and fall with combat.

[@modernworldnews1]

such a pretty game...sad that it is plagued by so many bad design decesions and the combat is unbearable.

[@truthseeker7172]

What mmorpg do you prefer atm?

[@australienski6687]

​@@truthseeker7172I went back to GW2, the loading screens suck but the combat is so much better.

[@oGFunction]

You were able to articulate exactly what I'm feeling about this game

[@NinjaKnighTr]

Not only those, some melee casters also feels horrible. Greatsword has some charge skills that sometimes when fully charged game desyncs and your character moves at it's own will to the sides of your target and resets your attack because of movement cancels casting. This not only feels horrible it also fucks up your rotation. Simply this made me quit today when it happened 4 times in a row and I couldn't do any damage.

[@Tsukiiyo7]

If NCsoft just implemented an actual action combat system this game would thrive for years. The game is so immensely held back by its clunky combat and movement considering the rest of the game is pretty good. I know they don't understand that because none of the people who make the decisions for the game have ever played a video game in their lives, but they should be aware of the feedback on the combat and movement and start working on an action combat system immediately.

[@ZXtales23]

So what you're saying is Throne and Liberty has NO liberty, well okay then

[@mystic865]

They overcomplicated loot and gear upgrade system. You can't just sell what you drop. You have to make lithograph or trait extraction and compare prices on ah and materials for items. That's crazy stupid.

[@redrepublic5557]

That’s one thing I agree with.. definitely need to see if there’s anything decent before you think of getting rid of it. And even plan on keeping it to trade it in for something else.

[@GravyFlavy]

Actually I think you can sell items on AH if they have a brown border around the item, this includes gear. But the drop rate of such items are questionable

[@mystic865]

@@GravyFlavy it's very rare to get item that you can sell on ah

[@redrepublic5557]

@@mystic865 Exactly this, although I didn't know about the brown border.. indicating what is tradable or not. However, I think a lot of these resellable items come in the form of crafting them apparently.

[@MysticVibrate]

Bro bdo does the same thing. Stop hating to hate. Actually know wat ur talking about. Most eastern mmos have unnecessary system like that.

[@frenchfrog644]

Very useful and informative video. The fact that you included a clip from good old Mack (WAB), one of my favorite content creator, makes it even better. Thank you.

[@TheWehzy]

The combat feels so outdated. They announced the game back in 2011 and it feels like it.

[@BranchOfMotherTree]

TL not only has one of the worst combat system for tab target its also feels very soulless without any classes,races just one boring human hey so much fun for a fantasy world.

[@OnceCLE]

Go back to WoW not everygame is like that 😂

[@MrVorech]

Its literally like Dark souls tell me that game Is soulless without Classes :D no pun intended kek

[@Oryyyt]

idgaf about races and classes. Those are just theme identity that every game has. Give me mechanically and fundamentally competent combat system 1st before any of those. Otherwise you can have a billion races and classes and I still won't play the game cause the combat is trash.

[@fermioff]

Ah, thank you for pointing out some of these design "issues"! I could not put my finger on what felt off, but I believe you have summarized it well. Also, I feel that they have attempted to integrate design features from multiple styles of mmo's and they did not implement this integration very smoothly. When playing, I can see a little bit of Elder Scrolls here (especially weapon-swapping), and a little bit of FFXIV there, and then some SWTOR, and then some WoW, etc. While I appreciate their attempt, in any one scenario it's not done as well as any of the aforementioned titles. On the one hand, it seems as if it may have been done for the sake of garnering a player base from other mmo's whose players are accustomed to a very specific set of options. For example, going from FFXIV to SWTOR, both tab targeting games, while similar, have many nuances that require some amount of acclimation. However, going from either of those to a more action-oriented ESO, or BDO even, is quite different. Perhaps they intended to make that easier? On the other hand, in most cases, it just feels like a lack of direction or identity. It is as if NCSoft was not sure what they wanted to do, so they did a little bit of everything, poorly. And, did this the intention of their development team? Or is this more of a marketing gimmick?

[@Neeko2lo]

I think the main reason is probably their transition from an auto-play combat to a proper pc/console combat system. They saw the game being very poorly received in beta due to the combat and hastily tried to remedy it. And thank you!

[@scottmenace1]

It's possible for them to revamp the combat system-they've done it before. The game used to be an auto-combat mobile game, but they improved both the combat and graphics. So why can't they do it again, especially now that the game is gaining recognition from many players?

[@Neeko2lo]

Well I hope they will, but it seems like many players are happy the way it currently is.

[@Oneuproad0001]

That auto-approach on attack has existed in tab target MMOs as long as at least Lineage 2 (I think even WoW had it, I played it for a few hours then never again) or in Aion which in my eyes is still the best pure tab target combat in any MMO I have ever played. This auto-approach feature was such a skill check in highly coordinated group/raid pvp scenarios, that without it you just stood no chance against those who use it smartly, it could be used in PvE also. But this was mainly due to Aion having one of the best marking system and target marked target system, without it it would not serve much really. Reason why you cannot use many of your skills without a valid target. But I agree if your skill is an aoe/cleave like ability, then it should be free use. The melee range is fine in TnL, at least from my MMO experience it seems no different than most I have played. If anything that WoW auto attack range makes me giggle lol. Auto attack slowing you while moving forward is just a definite flaw, I agree. But I do think moving sideways for example you should be slower, backward no question. Maybe add a slow on melee auto attack hits if ranged people get no movement reduction while using skills etc. But yes, it felt like this also already in Korea when I played TnL a bit for a few weeks, there is just this weird lack of smoothness. Also, when you tried to charge over the stairs to the roof. That is so common, where the game just checks if anything is under you. Just tell me, when you do an dash on striker in BDO from a roof down, what happens? Hell even if you just dash from a more inclined hill side from the high ground downward. In most games I have played this only works if the ability you use is a blink, and not a dash. I still prefer the GW2 way. I do think also the "best" combat with the most freedom is in GW2, for me that finishing blow on "dead" targets has killed it though.

[@Neeko2lo]

WoW does not have the auto move, and never had it, just fyi. Auto move is a massive advantage for those who use it but also restricts player agency and movement. (I never played Aion) As you describe it Aion had the best tab "targeting", not necessarily the best tab "combat." And thats why Gw2 is so good. Because it gives the player the freedom of movement instead of taking it away like Aion or Throne. And I also agree that BDOs movement has its limitations but, since its not tab targeting, allows for plenty more freedom in actions than a tab target game could. (I would give Gw2 combat a 6/10 and BDO a 6.5/10 if I had to put a number on it, but thats basically only because of action combat vs tab targeting)

[@Oneuproad0001]

@@Neeko2lo I actually wrote that i think Aion had the best pure tab target "combat". It also had auto-approach with absoloute freedom of movement, apart from a very few skills maybe locking you in place due to animation. In Aion it was possible to do what you did in GW2, where you jump at the edge and turn around preventing to fall down. I have killed many hundreds if not low thousands with this in Aion kek. I definitely think Aion was ahead at its time, but as most NCSoft/Korean MMOs it has met its end by retarded game designs and p2w. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pn7LlZWGpNGlbZY this was vanilla combat in Aion, with somewhat endgame attack speed. Aion had no global cooldown, you were limited by your animation speed and proper animation cancels only.

[@Manasseh.copper]

I wish they would just do a whole combat overhaul what if they can give us the type of omnidirectional movement and camera like bdo and and performance optimization fixes and fix basic attack and skill cool down and camera aming

[@drestau2019]

If only if they remove the slow down while attacking and make so that your initial attack has to be in range but your next attack has a bigger range so the slightest movement in both your enemy and your position didn't ruin any combo or attacks this game would be playable. But at this state melee just feels like I'm working a 9-5.

[@apowerr]

The S-tier combat and movement coupled with a super forgiving and time-respecting progression system are why I always end up sticking with GW2.

[@DoktorJammified]

The game definitely feels like it was supposed to be offline autohunting mobile game

[@rayplaysgames_RPG]

I tried the game. Tried bow, with sword shield. Moving in slow motion while auto attacking with the bow felt terrible. Immediately deleted from hard drive

[@BillJutz]

There is a check box to stop you from falling off a ledge. Unchecked it will be just like GW2. I do agree with all of your other points about the combat needing polish.

[@Neeko2lo]

I didnt use that setting in that video. I guess it would prevent me from falling by simply stopping me at an edge but dashes arent affected by it it seems

[@Lothkru]

I'm enjoying TL, but coming from Gw2 (my main MMO that I'll still be playing xD) the combat feels so clunky and annoying. The problem is the original design they had in mind and there are many limitations with the engine, UE4 is not the greatest at movement fluidity, but even then, since the original design was a mobile game the transition is rougher even. I'll still play for while probably cuz I like to play other MMOs when I get burn out of the grind for legendaries in Gw2 haha but sadly this is yet another new MMO that doesn't come close to Gw2. I say it because I'd like something more fresh to play, while I love Gw2, the PvP has been so abandoned in the game that I'd like another PvP MMO to rise up (the combat in Gw2 is just unmatched, at least in the tab-target category)

[@TheWyrwiflak]

YUP, u nailed it bro. i also think that this clunkyness is by design so engine can handle this number of players in one enviroment at once

[@AmbivalentActuality]

the worst thing about combat is how slow skills unlock and how long some cooldowns are they could definitely work on the pacing you get "new" skills and maybe work on adding skills later to the base game considering they have ideas on weapons theyre adding in presumably soon

[@johnspartan4025]

I also hate the CC mechanics where you get perma stunned to death, stun resistance is useless, but you can avoid both attack dmg and CCs with Evasion. But past blue equipment, to get your evasion with purples you have to be a hc gamer or mad swiper.

[@Cryptoaholic2024]

been playing mmo's since 2005 and its sad this is the new shit we getting. Absolute trash

[@eatatjoecs]

Excellent video. I thought the T&L weapon swap vs. bar abilities was a bit weird when I started playing, so thank you for articulating it. It is weird having daggers equipped and using greatsword abilities, and vice versa. The way weapon swapping in Elder Scrolls Online makes a lot more sense to me. You get 5 abilities for a weapon, then when you switch to a different weapon, you are then presented with 5 abilities for that weapon. This makes a lot more sense than using abilities for a weapon you don't have in your hands in T&L. The really nice thing about how ESO does it is also that you get 10 abilities but you only have to press keys 1-5 on the keyboard instead of 1-10.

[@isMiIes]

Really good and valid points your brought up this time. I am only level 26 and I have experienced almost all of this already. It may sound like nitpicking, but every detail adds up to a mediocre combat experience

[@richardmiklos]

One thing to add that's really annoying is having all your spells on CD. That should never happen in an MMO. Make some spells less powerful and lower their CDs to 1-2 seconds or just remove the CD.

[@axl4630]

That melee attack range looked prefectly fine in throne at the start.

[@Neeko2lo]

It would probably be fine if the movement wasn't so problematic

[@CaliCG89]

The reason why it feel cluncky is because the game originally was planned to be played in Autoplay, and with mobile support. So like L2m or Lineage 2 you mostly fight in position. After the Open Beta in Korea held in May and People complaining about the battle feeling bad and mobile like, they went quickly to change it so you can move and attack. I think devs rushed this and they didnt polish it in order for Melee to feel better

[@andrewk.7065]

Cannot explain how bad this game feels....but on the other hand i remember it's NCsoft we talking about. Also much love for mentioning gw2

[@tzuyaa]

A lot of things in the game didn’t make sense to me and it was clear it wasn’t a good quality game, people are hungry for MMOs

[@twocatsyelling723]

This is 100% why I decided not to continue with T&L. The combat just feels so bad. The range for melee is bad, as you point out - you have to stand on top of the target or you stop attacking. And ranged attacks are so close, they'd almost qualify as melee range in other MMOs. Also, I wish they'd have committed to 100% tab target or 100% action combat. The weird hybrid setup feels awful. Also, ability cool-down is way too long.

[@sthlmfps]

I havent played many tab target games before and not being able to use my skills without having a target felt really awful and jarring

[@E-JFD]

I love action combat, after about an hour of playing you realize pretty quick it’s clunky and inefficient in T&L

[@robs6404]

Getting Level 50 in this is insane. Thanks for figuring this out so we didn't have to. Are you still planning on reviewing retail WoW?

[@Neeko2lo]

I think my review would be just the same as everyone elses so: Retail WoW is incredibly formulaic but polished and clean. It doesnt do anything super well or super poorly. 0 Risk game by the devs and that also makes it pretty repetitive especially including all the time gating. So I would give it around a 5/10

[@robs6404]

@@Neeko2lo Thank you!

[@crankie289]

Remember you looking forward to this release years ago during the lost ark craze, I agree this game needs a workover in many combat aspects.

[@Neeko2lo]

I was so disappointed

[@moshrae]

I've played a lot of MMOs, from the most basic to the most popular, but even in the worst MMOs, the control system makes more sense than in this game. It's 2024, and auto attack and parry are mapped to the keyboard while there's an action mode in the game? Did the developers even play an MMO before they started making this?

[@oriain81]

I really enjoyed ESO still do on occasion but people tired of it because of the gameplay. T&L could go the same way. Good came but the clunky combat can turn a lot of people off. The combat of a game is like the number 1 priority or should be.

[@GeTakeo]

I find the aggro system in the game very triggering. Its specialy bad if you're the tank.

[@ThomasPreinitz]

The game was made to be autoplayed on a mobile, you can feel the ghost of that.

[@vettstang]

Oct 15th new world! @Neeko ya Got some Guides coming for NW??

[@luciusnoll]

devs really need to see this video. great breakdown

[@Emacspirate]

I agree with everything but the target auto face which I like. But there should be an option to toggle it.

[@GeorgeNoX]

for me, i would say dungeons are too punishing, way too many one shot mechanics and people just don't know, or are not willing to learn, how to deal with them. It is a terrible experience running dungeons outside a full guild group right now

[@BJLungLung]

I think the combat in the game is fine while I do understand y ppl think it feels clunky. The game basically doesnt encourage players to move while attacking like how in wow if u r melee ppl basically jump and rotate camera 360 every 2 seconds but attacks will land smoothly. Also the fact that NC intentionally makes attack motions skip fps to give some roughness and make attacks feel faster paced which they have been doing since lineage 2 adds to that feeling of clunkiness. I dont mind it as much as I feel like if the combat feels a bit too smooth it lacks that crispy hitting sensation but one thing that i HATE abt the combat system is how when u cast a spell and the mob walks off of range, it tells u at the end of casting and wastes ur time

[@צמחישראלמרום]

coming from gw2, I can confidently say, gw2 have the best movement in the mmorp tab target genre. it is so SMOOTH. and the combat is fun as hell. the abilities intertwind with one another, and as you say, you have a lot of reaction options. almost nothing lock you in place. everything is so smooth.

[@australienski6687]

I went back to GW2, the combat is so much better, but I really don't miss the loading screens.

[@צמחישראלמרום]

@@australienski6687 i agree, it is a downside. But the good is so much that it is truly worth it imo

[@australienski6687]

@@צמחישראלמרום I hope GW3 will have a persistent world with no loading screens like TL. That would be an S tier MMO.

[@צמחישראלמרום]

@@australienski6687 of course, with keeping everything that make gw2 great totally agree. removing loading screens, improving a little the graphics(keeping the style though), it will become absolute S tier game.

[@BLASTET]

Uninstalled right away, didn't even bother to finish the tutorial. The "combat" feels so bad, i don't want to force myself to get used to it.

[@RamsLiff]

Bro you have a double teleport stun ability which you can combo, and increase its duration, if you build wisdom and other cooldown traits your problem is solved. You just realized that in this game ( like any other) ranged is OP. The games bas its problems, but when I discovered that it can stun and double teleport, its just a matter of play style. Im dagger and SnS, I can DoT/Tank/Support, so Idk. Works a lot in PvP btw

[@SovereignAi]

Weapon swapping changes what weapon mastery is active

[@kevinreyhan209]

i'll just wait for archeage while playing this, seems pretty good from trailer alone, and feel like 2025 ish game rather than TAL that was 1 decade behind. Not saying TAL is bad tho, it's alright, co-op dungeon is quite fun actually if they allow us to run more than 3/day that would be nice.

[@australienski6687]

My problem with the combat is that it just does not flow. The cooldowns are really long it just feels janky and disjointed. The AoE is very small it just doesn't feel good.

[@probablyanotherfun]

are these fixable are they planning to fix them at all?

[@Neeko2lo]

probably, no idea if they will though

[@volodymyr6532]

I hate that I can't use skills without target. I thought such stupid mechanics died out

[@Brynjar1]

0:26 of course it will work like that and that doesn't make ther game a "mobile game", it was like that in Lineage II a previous game from NC soft. Throne and Liberty was initially a lineage II successor

[@Neeko2lo]

Lineage 3 released in 2003. OVER 20 YEARS AGO. Can we move on? Can we make better games finally?

[@Brynjar1]

@@Neeko2lo Korean MMO are like that, sadly

[@rekyn]

it works like that in pretty much all tab-targer MMOs, dosen't it?

[@Brynjar1]

@@rekyn Lineage II now has an auto mode in some servers, but when i tried the first versions back in 2004 .... if you pulled 2 mobs, you were dead .

[@Nilvarcus]

Throne and Liberty, aka Lineage Eternal, was supposed to be a successor to Lineage 1. This game isn't supposed to be a successor to anything. It's a slop they scrapped together after 12 years of development hell.

[@TheLilPorkChop]

o i remember u. ur a guy that looks like Arya Stark from BDO! sup dude, great video :D

[@Forll]

So your saying at 0:55 is what melee attack range should look like? Because this in no way looks like melee range. You're two if not more steps away from the target, that's not melee attack range... That's attacking from a distance, which is ranged attacking. Also when you zoom out @1:01, and have the camera behind your player, you're actually further away from the target than it looks, as you see at 1:05.

[@Neeko2lo]

All good-feeling tab target games give you unrealistic ranges because tab target doesnt allow for nearly as much movement to compensate for it. In combination with attacks actually slowing you down or locking you in place, a higher attack range, and maybe some leeway, is necessary for it to feel smooth.

[@BenzenBaws]

My top 2 games will always be BDO & GW2. BDO = Best action combat I've ever tried GW2 = Best tab target combat ever. I'm sad devs dont look at the games with good combat reputation and try to make it feel as good or... better? (though that might be hard) I played 20 minutes of T&L, mouse movement felt terrible, quit and uninstalled. Found out Mouse Smoothing was forced, edited input.ini to remove that stupid shit and tried again. 72 minutes in and it just feels bad and subpar to any other mmos... I've copied "the best combat settings" to make the game feel "better", but it just feels weird. BDO for example started out slow, but you can see the direction of combat. Every level makes you "faster", you can combo. Level 56, okay awakening/succession. Hit lvl 60, every combo available and it just feels super smooth to play. And I would argue to say the same with GW2. It just gets better the more you progress but still starts out at a good baseline. Throne just feels.. Clunky and bad from the get go and when I watch end-game footage it still looks shit. Can't believe it's soon 2025 and this is what we get.

[@benjamindover4337]

this game is exceptional in how badly designed it is. I'd like to know who is responsible for this travesty.

[@sensibility1174]

I don't think people know what the word clunky means.

[@EnergicLP]

Couldn't agree more. Game feels clunky af. The systems (upgrading, transfering, etc.) are so simple and lack depth imo?! (im coming from lost ark so maybe they just messed me up with their 100 systems to get stronger). The PvE content is too easy, you can only judge some1 by their weapon upgrade and trait (making the rest of the gear feel less worth to get BiS imo). I dont weigh that aspect as a hard negative tho, since this game focuses more on PvP (which you only do in like 20% of the time, the rest is PvE). It has terrible desyncs and bugs and just really needs a lot of polishing to feel smooth. Dont get me starting on jumping over small terrain or walls.

[@Krystalchan2009]

My personal recommendation, instead of using auto move in range, enable the option for "Queued Skills". This will enable your skill to be on "hold" until you enter range. I commonly use this for sleep bombing with my shadow strike queued up.

[@tass1133]

Very good video im pleasured as an old school wow player to see that someone points the exact little but good things about fun playstyle. Still Console/Pc it says so there is no hope to get much better.. I just accept it that way have fun and see what happens. Overall my life doesnt depend on a computer game. 😊

[@thrash1337]

They have to do very little to make it like 70% better. I hope they listen to the community because other than a few combat/movement/morph quirks, the experience is quite good.

[@theghoulshow]

Dude just press the dodge key while youre in the air and follow up with a directional key.

[@Lothrek]

Finally someone saying the words

[@PetterNe]

Changing your momentum mid jump is stupid as hell. I can’t believe you complained about TOL not having that.

[@metamystical1]

You just put into words and made clear everything I hate about the garbage combat in this game. What a disappointment it is.

[@unknownmonkey8661]

TL couldn't have competed even in 2006 with other games, having combat mechanics like this (and many many more other dumb gameplay decisions in place). There is not a single good thing in this half-baked semi-mobile joke of a game.

[@Neeko2lo]

I agree that Thrones combat cant even compete with very old games. It feels like a combat system from before WoW but modernized

[@bobthor9647]

How many weeks until population drop ?

[@pawelunikow1563]

Already dropping i make Second character and spots are empty 😂😂 people got 50 lvl and there is nothing to do

[@johnwalker3602]

The worst thing is you using daggers as main weapon though.

[@mas0ny149]

All good takes. I'm enjoying the game a lot despite its clunkiness and a lot is helped by having a range weapon as my auto attack for all my Gameplay (and not playing melee, although i am sns)

[@xelseartheonlyone1267]

Tab target in 2024... Unbelievable. By the way a cringy anime game called Aura Kingdom had the best Tab target combat i have ever seen in an mmo. It was so satisfying that you wish you were grinding and fighting enemies all the time. Don't undesrtand why MMO's almost always just fail at combat and gameplay design.

[@ZyroSugar]

I was hyped for this game only to find out combat is completely unplayable for me. I was expecting lost ark Action lol. Boy was I disappointed

[@diggles27]

The only point I really agree with you is the auto turning to face attacker. Being slowed down when you auto-attack is present in several games that I've played, although I can't recall them. It's pretty well established in lots of MMOs that you'll probably have to run very close if not in front of your target to hit them with melee, e.g. Network latency

[@JonModafokin1]

Thats why i only do pve in this game with friends . I would never pvp in a game with combat from 2003 ... If i want to fight , i just hop on bdo and do a nodewar or something

[@Taurus_Skyglaive]

Combat is ok and will get better you have some good takes. Low number of abilities is welcome because of new playerbase. Young people refuse to play wow because its overcomplicated. I like the movement itself too. Quite good for an MMO. I love the dodge and defense I feel challenged in fights now. Tanking ia fun too.

[@hunnid17]

Combat is far from ok. It's the worst MMO combat in the last 15 years by far, you can like the game without being delusional . I like the systems in the game but the clunkiness is unbearable

[@Sladverr]

I downloaded and tried the game today.. Finished the tutorial then uninstalled. My friend was upset because I got them to download and try it with me, but the game feels very bad to play. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the combat was made by someone who has no idea how to do mmo combat. EDIT: Like why can I not have the game auto-switch hotbars with weapon swapping? You mean to tell me you want me to have all my abilities on one bar OR manually switch bars every time I weapon swap? If I'm wrong, please tell me, but I didn't see that as an option which seems like an obvious must-have feature and I can't believe it's not in the game. The devs truly have no idea what they're doing.

[@Neeko2lo]

Weapon swapping doesnt do anything besides change your auto attacks. And afaik there is nothing else to it.

[@jacobkraus89]

I played for an hour then uninstalled

[@diggles27]

I don't think you're understanding the system that you don't need to manually switch the weapons in order to use the skills from your off-hand. Switching your hotbar is intended to switch to a completely different skill loadout, e.g. PVE, PVO, world boss. Nit Just give you access to abilities that weren't on your first hotbar. I think 12 skills is a good balance versus some of the other weapon-based games only allow between 3 and 5 skills.

[@ANTHRAD]

Not only the combat feels weird but imo the UI is so cluttered during combat, specially when you have a lot of people fighting I watched footage of Sieges and omg its only huge nameplates and damage numbers, sometimes you can't even see 10% of the player's character because of how cluttered the UI gets

[@Neeko2lo]

Also true

[@Investments71]

why they can't do a mmo with combat sytem similar to BDO? that is the best combat system in the entire MMO era , i was so waiting for this game and is so bad omg , is annoyingly bad the combat

[@tarkelson2457]

check out new worlds combat, its my personal fav. BDO is too easy and arcadey for me

[@omerkarahan2482]

Reason why I am not engaged to play this game. I started it but it wasnt engaging enough because of the bad combat design.

[@pixbud7465]

the moment i stepped in on this game for about 2 to 3 mins of exploring combat i know i didnt like it.

[@andysledge]

PvP Endgame with p2w is insane whoever enjoys this pls dont spend a dime and just quit when the progression walls hits you

[@Psikick4]

I'm top 10 killboard f2p. Git gud.

[@andysledge]

@@Psikick4 you’re top 10 korean p2w in inhaling copium

[@redrepublic5557]

Haven’t seen any p2w in any situation that would matter lol.. delusional dumbass. Even if there is a slight advantage, all PvP content is safe deaths anyway. Games actually good.

[@redrepublic5557]

First day or two in early access I got recruited into a guild. Turns out to be a solid team.. Now I’m sitting on multiple best in slot gear and the grinds only getting easier.

[@SovereignAi]

​@@redrepublic5557 Most people have literally no how the progression in this game works, its all about being in a good guild and grinding with a good team.

[@Junesong_777]

nice vid, but you missed how bad and hard it is to actually target people in this game for some reason

[@rscmcl]

could you report them that way they get fixed? ty

[@carpetas_den]

OMG, Throne and Liberty don't plays like WOW, how could guess!!!