Why Toyota Is Intentionally "Falling Behind" On EVs

In the last few years, seemingly every car company has begun investing heavily in electric vehicles. Ford said it would “lead America’s shift to EVs.” GM said it would invest $35 billion into EVs by 2035. And Volkswagon is dropping $193 billion on battery research. But not Toyota. Instead of pouring billions of dollars into electric vehicles, the company has been doubling down on hybrids. Some people think they’re making a grave mistake. But Toyota says it’s been part of its plan all along.
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[@baronvonjo1929]

I dont blame Toyota for not going EV crazy atm cause I keep seeing the struggle the Ford, GM, VW, Mercedes, Nissan and the Korean brands have. So many things to learn. I would personally just be investing into R&D and see what happens as lots of those other brands are burning through money for each EV they sell.

[@shadowninja6689]

The problem is it takes 3 years on average to bring a new car to market, and for a vehicle that's an EV instead of ICE like they're used to working with it'll probably be longer than the average turnaround. So yes, Toyota is really risking screwing themselves over by not investing in EV's now. Public sentiment can shift in favor of EV's faster than Toyota can shift their lineups towards EVs. And that's not even counting all the countries with bans on ICE vehicle sales after 2030, which Toyota is basically forfeiting their sales in by not shifting to EV's now.

[@tribalypredisposed]

Sounds like you could be management for one of those companies. Being completely wrong 24-7 is what they do. The problem with your idea here is that it just takes a lot of time to ramp EV production and to learn how to make EVs well, efficiently, and cost effectively. A lot of time is what these companies do not have. Yes, there are so many things to learn, and a lot of those things are ONLY learned by doing, on the factory floor, and not in the R&D labs. I worked at Tesla for some of their learning process. Two companies make a profit selling EVs, Tesla and BYD, and both are massively vertically integrated, making most of the parts of the car themselves. Toyota is pretty vertically integrated so they have that advantage over most legacy automakers, but they still will need an enormous amount of battery cells to transition to EVs, and the mines to supply the factories for those cells do not exist at the moment, and the cell factories also do not exist. I estimate Toyota needs to make five million EVs in 2028 to maintain current market share, and that would mean about 350 gigawatt hours of battery cells, and really you would be lucky, if you knew where to mine for the minerals needed already today, to have permits in hand to start developing the mines in 2028. Tesla already has their materials contracts in hand. BYD does too. As for the battery cell factories, construction needs to start no later than 2025 if you want them fully ramped by 2028. Yeah, all those other companies are struggling, and so is Toyota with their EV, because it is not so easy and they really lack the core competencies for EVs, which is a lot of top level software engineering expertise, and then battery cell and pack and electric motor expertise. Unfortunately they need to learn by manufacturing EVs, but they waited so long that very few want to buy their EVs while they struggle to make a vaguely competitive product. At this point, Toyota is a dead company walking. There is no way they can ramp production and figure out how to make competitive EVs at competitive prices in time. By 2028 almost no one will want Toyota ICE cars, or their hybrids, or their EVs.

[@runnerxa]

You really think the countries can enforce the ICE ban after 2030? I doubt it because the economics are not in favor of the EVs. I bet that the ICE ban will get extended multiple times especially in countries that lack the charging infrastructure.

[@itisabird]

Most of the engineering needs that Tesla and BYD had were learnt by Toyota half a century ago. You forget that they already make some of the best cars in the world. Making it electric is just a minor percentage of the engineering needs of a car. Also, don't forget that they are the top selling brand on hybrids, wich are electric cars with batteries recharged with fossil fuels. For them it is as simple as replacing the small battery with a big one. Regarding software, it depends. The amount of software that Tesla has is staggering, but not really necessary. High end cars are sold to people looking to have the shiniest thing, but the majority of cars are sold to poorer people that don't really need that many things. We've lived all our lives with just an stereo, and for that and the standard management of the vehicule you don't need 1000 engineers.

[@tribalypredisposed]

@@itisabird I worked at Tesla, and no, Toyota has very little of the technology and engineering that Tesla has. An EV is also definitely not super similar to an ICE car. The difference between a car and a horse and carriage is also just the motor and transmission and steering wheel, but only one out of hundreds of carriage companies survived to make cars for long (Studebaker). At Tesla, the software engineers are not just for the UI, they are all over the production lines making the robots work better and faster too, and then of course working on the full self driving and so on. Tesla is a Silicon Valley tech company that primarily makes cars at the moment. Tesla bought Grohman Automated Engineering which was the world leading engineering company for automated production at the time, and the go to company for the German automakers. They combined that knowledge with the huge expertise Tesla has in software engineering and with the SpaceX/Tesla metallurgy expertise, and with getting first pick every year of the best engineers in the world, and that put them way way ahead of Toyota.

[@mas7833]

I would say that Toyota’s attitude is pretty much like mine. They’ll sell them when it’s time and I’ll buy one when it’s time.

[@audiquagaming]

I would take a Toyota over any EV any day oh I own a Lexus hybrid 😂

[@HermanWillems]

Time is now.

[@randallnguyen7405]

I still love my prius prime. I still save a bunch of money on gas.

[@opmacace523]

@@HermanWillemsno

[@Jack908r]

Its the chicken or the egg problem. And its not even really that as oil industries keep pushing back against the switch.

[@ariorobotics8583]

Look at direct injection. VW was one of the first to implement it with many issues. Toyota took a more relaxed approach by ironing out the technology and it ended up being reliable.

[@HermanWillems]

WRONG, the Bz4X is NOT ironed out and NOT reliable at all. Just look at the many complaints of users. It's a good car, just a very bad electric car. Many things that should be GOOD at an EV to be a good EV are just BAD at Toyota. Their whole battery heat management is very bad. It can cold and hotgate at the same time. Which is actually very weird. One part of the battery is too cold, and other one is too hot. :) haha

[@ariorobotics8583]

​@@HermanWillems The bz4x is a compliance car

[@HNRichard]

@@HermanWillems US BZ4X has the bad batteries, the rest of us got the good BZ4X which honestly didn't have major problems at all on the EV systems. This also includes the Chinese sedan version they worked with BYD; the BZ3 too. No problems there as far as I know.

[@Hernsama]

@@HermanWillemsactually he was referring to Direct Injection. And if anything the BZ4 is a perfect example. They rushed and looked what happened its on your shit list. They should have waited but luckily they are making the right move.

[@anestacom]

Toyota was successful at catching up because during that time they have strong leadership (Ohno/Shingo and Toyoda that bought into the idea) that relentlessly focus on quality/improvement and bottoms up approach on quality. With all the recalls they have after 2000s, I doubt the culture is still there.

[@jkid4855]

it's really simple. They are delaying EV until they can control the battery tech that made sense to them. Once their solid state battery is up to par, they'll unlease their EVs. They're just not idiots who follow twitter trends.

[@HVM_fi]

Yeah, Toyota's solid state tech is only 3-5 years from production! -And had been like that last 20 years...

[@carlosandleon]

Also EVa are impractical for most people

[@HVM_fi]

@@carlosandleon Lol, nope, only people who tow their boat 600km in one go.

[@carlosandleon]

@@HVM_fi Im not driving 80 km to the next charging port bro

[@jkid4855]

@@HVM_fi and if they can't get it right, they will keep making excuses why EV sucks. Toyota can afford to wait.

[@AlessandroLosi]

I'm from Italy, and here the Toyota mindset is working a lot. We don't have a lot of charging stations and most of the people does not want to give up on the convienience of the gas engine. In fact the Toyota Yaris Hybrid (which i don't think exists in the USA) is one of the most sold cars here, and I would say that is one of the most reasonable hybrid to buy (small, relatively cheap, low fuel consumption, great advantages like free entry in city centers)

[@josephsager9425]

As a big car guy, I was really excited for EV's when it was bleeding edge tech, but my concerns have been growing for years now about cost. I think if EV's are adopted too quickly, they'll become something only the rich can afford. After I heard about Toyota's strategy, the more I think about it, the more I'm like, "yes - Hybrids are a necessary gap *if* America wants to keep it's car-centric nature." That said, I believe things that would reduce our car dependency, like a massive investment in mass transit and laws that mandate employers offer remote work are the way forward. Because even an EV is just another car, and cars are a hugely inefficient way of moving people around. As a fan of cars, I want to keep cars alive as something you drive for fun if you enjoy that hobby, not something everyone needs to drive to get anywhere, even if they hate driving.

[@Sacto1654]

I'm not sure if mandatory remote work is a completely good idea. There's always fear some hacker could break the encryption used by the Cisco AnyConnect VPN software for remote work (AnyConnect is a very popular connection sofware for remote workers) and cause no end of havoc, which could quickly end the age of remote work in many cases.

[@unconventionalideas5683]

The problem is that a huge and growing percentage of Americans don’t even have a license to drive, so America keeping its car centric culture is likely to fall away anyway, because if very few know how to drive and nobody is interested in Autonomous Cars, well, how can cars logically be a major part of transportation into the future?

[@L8nitedave]

The problem isn't so much EV vs hybrid as much as it is new car demand and the evolution curve on both. The hard truth is the EV evolution curve is closer to sustainable long term than ICE cars. But hitting the sweet spot of infrastructure when consumers learn how to use EVs becomes the target. Selling more long lasting ICE cars makes that target demographic longer and easier to hit for them while everyone else is committed to expensive EVs.

[@billant2]

It's definitely only for those who own a home and can do overnight charging in their warm garage. Most of those living in apartments and condos don't have overnight charging available. So yes, at the current higher prices EV's are definitely for the well off folks.

[@SimonEllwood]

​@@billant2You do not need a garage. An off-street parking spot and a Level II charger and you are good to go.

[@zeroreality]

You didn't answer the question in the title of the video! "Why" is Toyota falling behind? You went into how they are not investing in EVs at the same rate as other companies, but not "why" they aren't doing that. Your video should be titled "How come Toyota is intentionally falling behind on EVs".

[@nami1540]

Do you know of DeArrow? It is a brobser plugin that replaces catchy titles and thumbnails of YT videos by the one the community voted on. Thogether with Sponsotblock (skipping sponsored video segments) it is absolutely great. I will upload your suggestion.

[@chadhaire1711]

How about another title " EV's SUCK"

[@Shambolicoholic]

5:52

[@philipbrown9006]

Other companies are losing billions throwing good money after bad. Toyota decided not to.

[@tjjavier]

He did answer it. As the user above said, 5:52

[@Martian74]

A PHEV (Plugin Hybrid EV) seems like the best choice at the moment. Short range on battery only and then unlimited long distance driving with gas. An electric vehicle writer getting upset with Toyota is obvious, as it is his bread and butter (soy and lentil?) to write about EVs. I'm definitely considering a hybrid for my wife.

[@tivertontom]

consumer reports says the plug in hybrids are the lowest in reliability, truck evs after that

[@Martian74]

@EnriqueThiele cars don't catch fire often, I have never seen one and are more likely in old cars with rotten fuel lines so EVs are unlikely to be in that category yet, once they are left in a barn and rats chew on their power lines and short out wires, we will see them catching up. EVs just have too short a driving range for me to be even considered. Hybrids have far better range and good fuel economy.

[@yulusleonard985]

Hybrid have problematic designs. There are reason why hybrid are more likely to catch fire, like using passive cooler for batteries and inverter and storing batteries inside compartment instead outside like BEV. Also smaller batteries means faster degradation.

[@williammeek4078]

Hybrids are a fool’s bargain. Resale value of anything with a gas tank will be very low in five years as it will be clear to everyone by that time that pure EV is the endgame.

[@wyw201]

@@williammeek4078 You’ll need to tell this to all the Chinese who are buying all the Chinese hybrids. Largest hybrid market in the world. Will see how residuals play out on year by year basis. Maybe 5 years is too aggressive of a prediction?

[@ccarniver]

Toyota's HSD is the envy of the industry, it'd be foolish for them to throw away this card just because others had to

[@toyotaprius79]

Ach! Don't you be foolish! The HSD has been squandered for two decades now. It's completely adaptable for plugin batteries but Toyota resisted and compromised it every step of the way And you omitted how the HSD is an owned patent which makes hybrids more expensive for consumers, especially if Ford payes Toyota dues, or if Mitsubishi has to spend billions on it's own

[@ccarniver]

@@toyotaprius79 the patent is key, HSD is just superior to any other implementations of hybrid powertrain, both in terms of power delivery and simplicity

[@zomgneedaname]

The Risk is being kodak'd. Y'all gotta check out the Byd DM-i powertrain, goes entirely around the HSD patent lock

[@jensenraylight8011]

@@zomgneedaname what so special about EV anyway, it gets you from point A to B, the difference is only the Fuel. This is a Car not a Smartphone, and Toyota Can produce EV, don't act as if they're still at stone age, couldn't figure out how EV Works. While Kodak, literally just straight up didn't want to sell their new Technological marvel, Toyota, ford, Porsche, all of them have EV lineups, nothing special they're the first to realize that people Want hybrid not EV, so when the Age of EV come, why would they become the last to Pivot? They're ahead in knowing the market demand. Unlike Tesla that had the nerve after selling Less car, they shamelessly pump their stock so obviously to be way bigger than Toyota.

[@GethinColes]

I live in rural Australia. Ideal car for here is a small battery hybrid. Battery for local runs, hybrid or range extender for longer. I dont think anyone is making this, and its puzzling. A range extender that can maintain charge at 80kmh would be fine, because anywhere that you can go faster has charging stations available

[@genericreference6969]

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV but it isnt the smallest of vehicles

[@GethinColes]

@@genericreference6969 I'll check it out!

[@GethinColes]

@@genericreference6969 I see it's drivetrain is still directly connected to the wheels, I wonder if you dropped all that weight and had a petrol-electric drivetrain how the weight savings offset the conversion losses.

[@lapin46]

@@GethinColes the engine is actually coupled with a clutch to the drive train. Below some 60-70 km/h, faster for newer models, the engine drives a generator with no direct connection the wheels itself. The generated electricity is used to drive the car. Above a certain speed, the engine is coupled to the wheels with a clutch directly driving the wheels, but also driving the generator. This way power can be provided to the electrically driven rear axle as well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJ_Xm5abhZKLhqcsi=8_QHwKMFkxuFxlC4

[@by010]

Chevy volt or smh?

[@otus_]

around here (Africa, Southern Africa, Botswana), Toyota leads sales with an all petrol/diesel lineup, we simply dont have enought electricty to charge our phones and cars., probably the same case for all of the developing world, not enough electricity and I am talking about the coal made stuff, not that new solar green clean eletricity.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

I bet you have sun in Botswana. No need to import petrol.

[@captaindak5119]

​@@jamesvandamme7786solar power is far less reliable than fossil fuels for electricity generation and solar power plants take up a lot of space compared to a fossil fuel based power plant of similar electricity generating capacity. Solar panels are OK for putting on a house but not for powering an entire country, especially manufacturing sector

[@planefan082]

​@@jamesvandamme7786While long term it would save incredible amounts of money for developing countries to leapfrog to clean grids, the problem is they usually don't have enough money for the upfront infrastructure costs. Same reason a lot of people aren't buying an EV and switching to renewables right away elsewhere. It's expensive to be poor.

[@AmericanRoads]

I live in an apartment and have no capability of charging at home. If I drive an EV, my only option is to charge at charging stations, and they are getting just as expensive as refueling a gasoline car. For people like me, hybrids are actually more economical to run than EVs. I am glad for the variety of RELIABLE hybrids that Toyota is currently offering. I currently own a 2022 Corolla LE hybrid and a 2023 RAV4 XSE hybrid.

[@tw8464]

Exactly. The electric stations they keep getting more expensive because the corporations are charging more and more of a hefty premium to use their stations because they know people in apartments are now their hostages and they're monopolizing because a lot of the people have no option to charge at home so they can just keep doubling the price then forcing people back to ice destroying their own cash cow. But the "trickle down" always drains their golden goose they have all the wealth in society to just go from goose to goose while everyone else pays for each monopoly after another

[@davemccarthy7366]

EV's aren't selling now, but Toyota is up 16% YOY. Who got it right?

[@jamesodell3064]

Toyota also has the Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime. I am considering the Prius Prime when I replace my Camry. I would drive all electric over 95% of the time with the 44 mile all electric range. Charge in the garage with 120V saving the cost of the special charger. When I want to travel I would not have to worry about finding a charging station. I would expect over time as batteries get better and hopefully cheaper the all electric range will increase.

[@someguy2135]

I mentioned them in a comment before I saw yours. This looks like you get the best of both worlds. They get about 40 miles of range in the EV mode after an overnight charge. Availablilty for both models means a long wait time to buy one. The only advantage of a pure EV would be the fact that they do not need oil changes, and have less to go wrong. Toyota has such a great track record for reliability, that that wouldn't worry me, though.

[@christophers707]

just get a plain hybrid look up plugin reliability its awful might as well get an ev

[@lukeclifton4392]

@@someguy2135”You can’t have your cake and eat it too!”… that’s seems to be the case with PHEV too! Yes you can run EV mode all day and every day for normal commutes, it’s fine!! On the other hand the extra weight of both a medium sized battery, an engine and the projected lifespan of the battery (because it’s being used like an EV, a lot of cycles) ends up being no more efficient than a normal hybrid. You have to think of Hybrid battery chemistry like a capacitor (it’s a different chemistry to EV batteries). Hybrid batteries are smaller, less weight=more efficient and last longer. The Hybrid battery’s efficient sizing is just adequate enough to store “lost” energy (not just from braking) and deliver it back to the “an appropriately sized” power train under situations where the engine is least efficient. PHEV vehicles on the other hand use undersized engines and RELY on the Hybrid side to boost the engines performance… so why have the weight of the engine there in the first place??

[@jamesodell3064]

Good point. It will be four or five years before I need a new car. Perhaps by then Toyota will have worked out the bugs. I will check their reliability the and make my decision. @@christophers707

[@linusa2996]

Just get a straight hybrid Prius. it's cheaper and just as reliable or more so.

[@ShaunRF]

A little surprised you made no mention of Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell investments, which they are desperately clinging to due to their enormous sunk costs in the doomed technology.

[@rkan2]

Waiting for the day when a hydrogen fuel cell doesn't require palladium, doesn't cost the car's msrp's worth to replace and of course when hydrogen production is 90% efficient 😂

[@yo2trader539]

Hydrogen-fueled buses using Toyota technology is already running in Japan for years. Now, hydrogen-fueled trains with Toyota technology are being tested by JR East. The project name is "Hybari."

[@evancombs5159]

Hydrogen fuel cells make sense, just not for cars. Their investment will pay off, just you won't notice it as a consumer because you won't be using it directly.

[@Roggor]

​@@evancombs5159 Exactly. The physics, rightly derided for years, don't work at a small scale. Larger vehicles like buses and trains have some application for this technology.

[@planefan082]

​@@RoggorI'd dare say trains don't make sense for them when electrifying the route is so much cheaper (usually). I think hydrogen will find greater use replacing marine fuel oil and potentially in medium haul aviation.

[@UrbanNaturalist]

Toyota is right, also their hybrids are way ahead of the others. The Prius transmission is an ECVT, without a belt to wear out. It has an ingenious way of using a planetary gear set and electric motors to remove pumps and clutches from the automatic transmission.

[@UrbanNaturalist]

@EnriqueThiele sure, but for most of the country, they only work as second cars. I’ve loved the idea of electric cars for decades, but I’m not in the place to own an electric car as an extra vehicle. It would not fit our driving needs. The charging infrastructure is not there yet and some more environmentally friendly battery tech will be coming soon that will allow the masses to get on board. For now, we’ll let you pay more early on to fund the improvement of those issues. I’ll keep my old Toyotas running until the tech improves.✌️

[@kalmmonke5037]

although there is no evidence for humans causing climate change beyond natural climate change, there is evidence and some very apparently suspicious artificial chemical stuff, which is now known to be definitely harmful, such as dirtier forms of combustion, tire wear dust(see xenoestrogens, microplastics, etc) , wiper fluid etc. best way to use non fully recyalable limited battery supply (which is almost always never recycled ) is to have small combustion charging battery and electric assisted turbo in lightweight areo car. weight makes it less crash safe for everyone involved in crash, worsens road wear damage and tire wear , exponentially, and makes preserving momentum around turns less possible to minimize degradation of battery from regenerative braking , then powering up again after regenerating the energy less efficiently than how it would be in preserving momentum around a turn. . ev are heavy because high weight per energy , you arnt using all that energy at a moment of driving but you are carrying all thr weight. instant torque makes it worse. @EnriqueThiele having the sedan jump up to have its structurally strong parts lower in the car, hit the strong parts of other car before crash, would also have higher safety with all the supremacy in balanced values of sedans. a lotus style lightweight agile momentum preservaton sporty driving can be integrated into encouraging effceint low emission driivng to make driving fun and safer, too recent honda insight is closest we got to this ideal , but they intentionally didnt do their best becayse they were afraid people wouldnt buy their car as much if they made a aesthetically weird shape like prius , they wanted to get people whos buy prius if only it didnt look weird . they knew almost every who says they care about emissions actually do not care(mostly because low trust in "the science" and its funding), and they are already far less than 5 percent of all customers , so they comprimised. noone praises honda, they praise tesla for making a gossip attracting toy r

[@UrbanNaturalist]

@@kalmmonke5037 Honda is years behind Toyota when it comes to hybrids. Ahead of Toyota in EV market though.

[@kalmmonke5037]

for example honda didnt make 2017 insight areodynamic because they were appealin gto people who wouldve brought prius it prius didnt look weird. its also a wider car. if they tried to make it more effceintt they probably could have @@UrbanNaturalist

[@jimfarmer7811]

The Toyota hybrid system is elegant in its simplicity. I have the same system in my Ford Maverick. It eliminates the complex automatic transmission as well as the starter, alternator, serpentine belt, and turbocharger. The naturally aspirated engine doesn't work nearly as hard as a turbocharged engine.

[@dulio12385]

Toyota is playing it smart; Let everyone take all the brand damage of introducing and working out the kinks of new tech while taking notes, then step in with a perfect design and an intact reputation.

[@bobby350z]

I hope you are right. But by then most people who want to move to EVs will have already done by buying Teslas and other EVs.

[@gibbonsdp]

You can't just "step into" EV technology, as every other traditional car maker is discovering.

[@bobby350z]

@@gibbonsdp - Mainly due to no charging network. And every mfg is trying to charge quite a bit more money for an EV car/truck.

[@dark6c159]

its no like toyota was right. just everyone else went crazy over EVs. unreasonable expectation have to face the reality sooner or later .

[@christophers707]

​@@bobby350z EV growth is slowing Toyota made the logical decision plus none of the EV's compare to hybrids when it comes to reliability. When Toyota releases an EV lots of people will buy because they trust the brand which other car companies wish they had.

[@TTOS69]

I would much rather have a hybrid than a fully electric car any day.

[@deivclayton]

Plug-in hybrids are a great in-between step. Pure EV's still have the major disadvantage of needing longer times to charge while traveling on road trips.

[@hojnikb]

Yeah, they are great at nothing and terrible at many things. There's a reason why inbetween steps in life in general don't work out. It's really just a way to manufacturers to skir arount the fleet emissions.

[@lcwpg]

Hybrid is sorta like a solution to high fuel prices but to maintain an engine plus a battery that will degrade how is this the solution for now. I rather have a engine or a ev not a hybrid.

[@billant2]

The biggest disadvantage is that they cost almost double than regular cars. I don't care if it runs on gas, water, or cow fart, just make them cheaper than current gas cars. All I need is something to get me from point A to B cheaply and refuel quickly, don't need any of the self driving camera whistles and bells. And why not? Electric motors and the rest of the mechanics is much less complicated than gas cars. They are literally charging more for something less convenient to refuel especially for those who don't live in house with overnight charging. smh

[@twosteptothatyo]

Teslas can charge from 0% to 80% in ~20 minutes at a Supercharger. Same amount of time it takes to wait in line at Costco to fuel up.

[@billant2]

​@@twosteptothatyo- I find it silly how they always say charging an EV from 20 to 80% takes 20 minutes. But charging it to 100% takes 45 minutes. I don't know about you, but always I refuel my car to 100% in under 5 minutes, 80% would take about 3 minutes. lol

[@PP-xy9bg]

So, you think EVs are green? If it were only true, but as far as data shows (from mining, production and maintenance) EVs are worse for the environment by a lot.

[@PP-xy9bg]

Not to mention the energy mix used for charging, mostly coming from fossil fuels. And no, it is hard to offset that by “better” efficiency of the electric motors.

[@RavarsenBlogspot]

It is definitely worse currently. In the future when the tech matures, it’ll be the opposite

[@jamesphillips2285]

What about mining required just to fill up your ICE vehicle every week? "And no, it is hard to offset that by “better” efficiency of the electric motors." Power plant (coal/gas, doesn't matter): 40% efficient. grid (assuming 15% losses): 85% efficient. EV efficiency: 90% -> system efficiency (0.4)(0.85)(.9)x100%= 30.6% Show me an ICE, or even hybrid, vehicle that beats 30% efficiency.

[@PP-xy9bg]

@@jamesphillips2285 Mining for rare earth minerals for the battery is seriosuly more dirty than mining for iron for example. EVs and ICE cars have similar components, excluding the battery. Efficiency, by itself will not solve the issue of dirty production, lack of recycling and failing infrastructure. Plus, you should know that your claimed efficiency is only in given climate conditions. Also, there is efficiency of converting electrical energy to mechanical by the motors (highly efficient) and converting electrical energy to chemical and vice versa - less efficient. Then you have many variables of chargers’ efficiency, which hard to calculate on global level as some chargers could be 90% efficient and others could be 80%. All in all, EVs should be more efficient, however this will not be a huge impact. The difference would be smaller than claimed. This combined with the fact, that even if we stop driving any cars, right now, we will barely make a meaningful dent in CO2 emmisions, questions why we are trying to solve the problem with EVs. There are much better and quicker wins. Meanwhile, if people just stop driving SUVs and stop buying new cars every 3 years, it will cover for a greater CO2 reduction than prodcuing and driving EVs. But that would require change in life-style. And this is what we all need to understand - change will not come just from technology - we need to give up stuff. 3000 kg electric SUV is not better than my 10 years old city car with 1.0L gas engine, that serves all my needs on the cost on much lower emissions (during life time) of the huge and heavy SUV. Which heavy SUV causes secondary emissions by increasing the wear and tear on roads, parkings, etc. Even if not an SUV, EVs are heavier on average. Basics physics will tell you - if you want economy and efficiency, you need to go down in weight - not up. Even if you claim, well EVs are 40% more efficient and you go 20% in weight, you’r already killing your benefits. I don’t know why I am writing that as I pretty sure that everyone who believes in EVs wouldn’t listen to basic, high school level physics and will continue on that myth. But finally, I would like to say: until a few years ago, we were brainwashed on how bad are normal AA batteries and how we need to bring to the supermarket for recycling. And now, we are brining our remote control’s batteries for recycling to the supermarket with an EV that has a 1000kg battery in it without any hope of recycling program. And don’t give me the: “But we’ll use the old EVs batteries for seocndary storage.” Where is that? Where are the govt. programs for that? Is it feasibel? If yes, why it is not already done en mass? You think corporations would loose money if it were profitable? So, please drive our EVs and think you’re doing something good, because if you start thinking about the reality - it will very qucikly become unpleasant and spoil your happines.

[@oatlegOnYt]

@@jamesphillips2285 In the ICE you need to add the loses of the transformation and distribution from oil, to fuel, to the ICE car.

[@tokyo-wt7fq]

Note that Japan has many natural hazard like earthquake and heavy snow. EV would be useless in crisis situation

[@crimsonlightbinder]

and you can say that about many places which makes EVs even more stupid

[@Jake-rs9nq]

An earthquake that takes the grid offline would almost certainly destroy gasoline pipelines as well. Also, you need electricity to pump gas.

[@aakankinskywalker384]

@@Jake-rs9nq no refuelling in emergency situations can be done without electricity.

[@Jake-rs9nq]

@@aakankinskywalker384 How? You can use a generator, but you still need electricity. The only alternative is to have a manual pump and crank it, but I haven't seen one of those this century.

[@Steve_in_NJ]

Went car shopping today. Well, sort of. I took my 2022 Hyundai Kona to the dealership for it's routine oil and filter change. While waiting, I sat inside a 2024 Kona top model and even though it's "space age", the 1.6 Liter Turbo engine (what I drive now) will *only* get 26 mpg combined. Meanwhile, I am also seriously looking at a 2024 Toyota Corolla Cross HYBRID XSE for next year and for the same price (approximately, depends of whether the dealership does dealer markups and how much), a Toyota Crossover hybrid will get 42-48 mpg!!! Something to consider as I am not ready for full-on EV for just those reasons you mentioned in the video (price, price, price). The price of a new EV, the price of having a charger installed at my home (solar roof panels, green charging energy), and the price of the increased automobile insurance.

[@Steve_in_NJ]

Oh, and the OTHER reason why Toyota isn't going fully electric? They are developing Solid State batteries to replace Lithium-Ion so that's a better technology once it's available.

[@chrisdeguzman7795]

@@Steve_in_NJi heard that as well, thats a game changer…

[@itisabird]

Solar panels are not a requirement for having an electric vehicule in the same way as you don't need an oil well in your garden to have a petrol car. You can charge your car with energy from your utility company.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Would you buy a $25K EV?

[@linusa2996]

@@itisabird Per Elon Musk, the electrical generation has to double to just meet the electrical demand for an EV economy. Hint, the US is not going to be able to double it's power generation for decades.

[@anvilsvs]

I'm not a Toyota fan boy. Didn't much like the early Prii (too slow, etc.) but they've got it right on this.

[@ali_adeeb]

Toyota will be fine. I see all manufacturers struggling selling their EVs from Ford to GMC. Plus the reliability is garbage especially in colder climates. I think an extremely efficient hybrid is the solution, and can help us get to a stable eco-friendly equilibrium of carbon emissions given we change the rest of the energy production system to net carbon zero like Nuclear etc. @EnriqueThiele

[@michaelqu]

Toyota understands most don't want or can't afford an EV and that the charging infrastructure is inadequate

[@totalstrangerthing7419]

Tell that to Chinese who sell their cars for around 10K$. That's right 10000$. Not 1 Million, not 100 thousand but 10 thousand. And monthly cost of recharging the around 100$ MONTHLY.

[@mostlyguesses8385]

​@@totalstrangerthing7419... The cost of gasoline is around only $100 monthly in US. Gasoline is darn cheap, EV promoters act like it's $10,000.... that's the problem, gas is cheap. """""When we divide 2015's consumption of 140.43 billion gallons across those roughly 214 million licensed drivers, it adds up to 656 gallons per driver. At an average price of $2.15 per gallon last year, the average American forked about $1,400 just to fill up their tank."""""

[@totalstrangerthing7419]

@@mostlyguesses8385 that's in us. I m from Bosnia. Here thx to war in Ukraine U started, cost of gas 2x than US, give or take where u live. My brother bought EV last year & he is so pleased that he said he'll never go back to gas. Now my father is thinking to also buy one.

[@yulusleonard985]

@@mostlyguesses8385 Thats the privilege living in US where your government have no problem bombing other nations for oil just to keep you happy. People who scream "EV are scam" almost all of them are American.

[@babananabanana9163]

​@@totalstrangerthing7419 But Bosnia is pretty small ? No ? I dont know your country really well, so i just assuming its size from how it looks at google. Sure Wuling BYD etc are pumping cheap EV, But the problem is.... is it sustainable ? Those cheapo EV are taking the resources that are rare and making it expendable commodity. And you know that raw material are finite. Of course we can always recycle those battery material, however.... those recycle mineral gonna degrade and arent gonna be comparable to a freshly mined mineral. And that is the dilema of EV. It looks good on short term, it sounds promising, and it looks like a cheaper alternative. but it is SHIT !

[@jessemeyer3052]

Lack of charging stations is a very real concern for many. If one has a home, a BEV is far more convenient, since it only takes a few seconds to plug in each night. If one is an apartment dweller, a gas or hybrid car is frequently more convenient.

[@jamessmyth5949]

It's not just the lack of charging stations that concerns me with EVs. It's the astronomical cost of a replacement battery, if you can even get one when the time arises, fudging of the figures when it comes to actual driving range, the cost of more expensive tires and more frequent tire replacements, the higher insurance costs, faster depreciation, lack of repair shops that deal with body repairs on EVs, the length of time you wait for a repair due to lack of parts availablity. There's just too many negatives.

[@tw8464]

Yeah the EVs current technology they are better for people who own a home and can charge overnight

[@tw8464]

​@@jamessmyth5949definitely a lot of issues though probably many of these issues will get ironed out. Anything new is going to have issues to iron out. The insurance is an issue although I have some suspicion insurance companies aren't doing some price gouging perhaps thinking ev owners early adopters are more affluent

[@addanametocontinue]

Why on Earth would I want to buy an EV when the charging infrastructure isn't there, charging time is still not that great, repairs are, from what I've heard, incredibly expensive, and they generally cost more? Toyota is absolutely right. If I want to cut down on emissions and still get the benefits of a gas car, I would get a hybrid. All the benefits of an ICE and you get even more range and MPG.

[@KbB-kz9qp]

Folks in Chicago recently had a demonstration of how EVs have some problems in winter weather . The thing about cold weather is that it can become life threatening, especially in sparsely populated areas, and so in colder climes, having a reliable car is important.

[@jamesphillips2285]

Strange how the EVs were having trouble in Chicago, but not colder places. Through I heard through the local grapevine that 630 CHED in Edmonton complained about EVs not starting ... could not find a copy of the episode. After having rescued my sister's ICE car that would not start at -20c (-4F): I blamed the 12V system. EVs can be boosted just like ICE cars in the extreme cold.

[@opmacace523]

@@jamesphillips2285they are having trouble in Norway too you know the range basically gets cut in half in cold winters because you have to use the heater and the battery capacity is lower. They just don’t talk about it to much because it doesn’t fit the agenda

[@jamesphillips2285]

@@opmacace523 The agenda of having a livable biosphere?!? THAT agenda?

[@opmacace523]

@@jamesphillips2285 just tell me that you don’t know how batteries are made and shut up

[@jamesphillips2285]

@@opmacace523 I can also say you obviously don't know how oil mining works.

[@jerom_jomon]

Toyota was never the leader of innovation. So it makes sense to take it slow but reliable approach. That reliability reputation is worth a lot to upkeep

[@HermanWillems]

Reliable? 80 People in USA got killed by very very bad quality software in their ECU's and also other parts of the car failing because of that. Even NASA had to get the code from Toyota and concluded it's super shit code.

[@elisee9935]

When they made the Prius, that was leading in innovation. The difference however between Toyota Innovation and other brands' innovation is that Toyota will only release things that are ready for mass consumption. If they can't sell it everywhere in the world, they won't make it. They can't sell electric cars in Africa or Australia, so they're holding off until their battery technology is ready.

[@HermanWillems]

@elisee9935 Tesla is ready for mass production. Tesla Model Y is best selling car in the world.

[@elisee9935]

@@HermanWillems being ready for mass production is different from being ready for mass consumption/adoptation. All big carmakers can mass produce EV's if they want to, but if not all people can buy them, it 's not ready for mass adoptation.

[@joaquimbarbosa896]

Their evs are not reliable, and they are not developing any super amszing tech, instead they are far behind Its impressive that they've been saying the same bs for years and people still buy it

[@rhrh2025]

The electrical grid, probably worldwide, isn't designed to sustain massive vehicle rechargings at the same time. For this reason, I'm with Toyota. It could be a pending disaster!

[@PaponDSazon]

Exactly and there’s no way to build the infrastructure on the scale of supporting full electric vehicles for everyone. And all the other auto makers have back down on the full EV line up because of cost and logistics. We would need the power of the sun to truly have all EV vehicles and I hope that day doesn’t come

[@ferfromla]

It looks to me like Toyota is going to continue to make truckloads of money by managing the transition from ICE cars to EVs. They know that EVs are the future, but as we are not there yet they can put off the shift for later. Given the high price of EVs in the US, Toyota can offer cars that people love and know without anxiety about range and cost. Since there are few really affordable EVs, hybrids become an easy choice. Because Toyota has considerable experience with hybrids, they are no stranger to electric vehicles, and when the market is right for them they should be able to deliver a quality vehicle at a good price. In the meantime, Tesla will continue to dominate the higher end of the EV market and continue to grab market share from the big three in the US. Nonetheless, there remains a real opportunity to sell more affordable EVs and that is where Toyota could profit handsomely. If they can time it right, offering affordable electrics would be a great strategy. As the charging infrastructure improves and battery prices decrease, EVs will be viable for the broader car-buying public. For the time being it does not appear that Tesla or the Chinese will be a factor at the low end and that is where Toyota can make its mark. If Toyota can't do it someone else will rise to the opportunity and fill that gap.

[@wyw201]

@EnriqueThiele Are you predicting this year, ICE car sales will be 50% globally?

[@binskee677]

@EnriqueThiele i think you are massivly underestimating Toyota. They are still the most profitable and biggest car company with the best reliability by far, and Toyota is after Tesla the most valuable car brand in the world. Toyota has a huge soft power around the world, even if they are late to the party, just the Toyota logo on a car will sell them. It's not just EV's, in general Toyotas and Lexus are always a step behind their competition when it comes to new tech and features but still they are selling a lot of car, even in Europe where the Germans dominate and you also have french cars in the mix. Even Lexus is outselling their German competition in the US and many other markets. Once battery technology improves, they will jump in and people will buy it. If they can pull off the solid state batteries it's game over anyway for low cost ev's as Toyotas will dominte the market. Toyota won't be the giant they are now in the future anyway, they will loose market share to the chinese no matter how much and how early they are going to invest into EV's. The good thing about EV's are that the tech is very scalable, if you develope one drivetrain, you can scale it to any model in your whole range. Toyota is the most innovative company in the world when it comes to production facilities, even Porsche uses TPS, it won't be much of a struggle to change them as Toyota doesn't produce on assembly lines rather they produce within a Kanban system, making an EV wont be much different for them than maken a new model, especially due to their hybrid expertise they already have decades of knowledge with battery tech and electric engines, that just has to be scaled up.

[@Aka.Aka.]

Chinese EVs will win tbh like it's literally a fact

[@HermanWillems]

Their EV's are also UTTERLY shit. Bz4X is total shit. Its a good car, just a bad EV.

[@wyw201]

@@Aka.Aka. Facts are stats driven

[@lemagicalpotato8318]

Good on Toyota for realizing the practicality shortfalls of current EV tech. I would be more excited about EVs if there existed battery tech ready for mass production that allowed batteries to be made of at least mostly renewable materials with a solid and inexpensive pipeline for recycling those batteries once they reach end of life. Until then, we are kind of just shifting the problem from the air to the landfill. Hybrids strike a nice balance between better carbon emissions and dealing with the reality of existing infrastructure and highly variable global climates. Hope they can keep doing R&D for EVs to keep reducing repair costs and improving efficiency and reliability

[@pyromcr]

EV's aren't selling and prices are being slashed across the board. Manufactures are losing their asses on them. Meanwhile every Toyota model is flying off the lots above MSRP and have months long waiting lists. But yeah for sure it's Toyota that's gotten it wrong.

[@Quaerite.Intellectum]

First of all, EVs are NOT affordable for most people. They're affordable to only the relatively small percentage of people who can actually afford them and all the idiots who constantly have a loan on cars they can't really afford, AKA they spend most of their money paying for a car loan and then complain, "I'm broke!". Ya, that's because you buy shit you can't afford. Second, something you did not address in your video and it's VERY important. If everyone is buying EVs, the demand on our power grid is going to sky rocket astronomically. Are we as a country building tons of reliable power plants and other power sources to be prepared for that? As far as I know, that's NOT happening. It's certainly not happening in California. Last summer the governor asked people to not charge their cars for a few days. Those two things need to be solved.

[@coleeto2]

EVs have a lower cost of ownership compared to ICE vehicles. It would be more accurate to say most people can’t afford a brand new car! Secondly, if starting today all new car sales were EV, it would take about 20 years for all (well close to all) cars on the road to be EV. There are a huge number of renewable energy projects in the works, some are built and waiting on red tape from the grid companies.

[@Quaerite.Intellectum]

@@coleeto2 Test

[@evancombs5159]

California is a special case, don't assume anything that is true in California is true anywhere else. In fact, it is usually the opposite.

[@perroaventura]

It seems to me that Toyota is playing a double game: trying to delay the full electrification of mobility and, at the same time, conveying the message that they are technological leaders and that they are very concerned about the environment. They want to take advantage of either of the two options that settle in the future.

[@prakhargupta2081]

EVs aren't that green and good for environment.

[@getthecats]

@perroaventura you are making the assumption in your argument that to be technological leaders they must be promoting ev's with full backing. Highly subjective, and I'd say that you are wrong. As stated in the video there's not enough chargers yet and MOST customers don't want an EV. So Toyota are making hybrids available to the MOST people and are substituting full ICE cars with hybrids. Toyota is being very utilitarian. It's way easier to convert people from full ICE to hybrid and they can do it in way higher numbers than converting people from full ICE to ev

[@FrVitoBe]

They playing games only for there own profit and nothing else

[@getthecats]

@@FrVitoBe they're a business not a charity. I disagree because of the wide range of hybrids they're making

[@Kni0002]

Toyota makes cars you can fix or a small business mechanic can fix. Teslas are impossible to fix. so much for being green, it’s being wasteful.

[@sedawk]

At 0:22 you missed Tesla. Didn’t even acknowledge it was removed from the data set!

[@ChristianRRL]

The graph is “EV Share Of Total Brand Sales (Q3)”. It’s showing that a roughly 1%-15% range between EV *and* ICE manufacturers and is easy to understand because of the scale. Since Tesla *only* produces EVs, (A) adding it to the graph would heavily skew the scale and it would be hard to decipher the data for the rest of the auto makers, and (B) not add any new information since it would be showing redundant information.

[@pixelboy7654]

EV won't be popular in the US because of the average range which is a dismal 150 miles on average and charging is too long. Also Electric is not green and it won't be for a long time. And lower emission ICE cars like the hybrids are on EV's tale. There are use cases for EV because they are fun to drive but for long range and transport it is a no.

[@mikhilmuhuthan6903]

As a car enthusiast, I respect toyota for not going full ev like other car manufacters. They stay grounded and watch as the others fly too close to the tesla sun and melt thier wings and plunge into the ocean, helplessly swimming back to the shore or drowning and sinking into the cold, dark, deep ocean.

[@alex98b627]

I don’t understand range anxiety. How often are these people driving more than 300 miles in one trip?! That’s crazy. I’m Australia and we also have a large country traverse but driving for over 6 hours wouldn’t happen very often. I don’t understand hating a car because the trip you make once or twice a year might need a charge part way through.

[@Globalurb]

I used to do that kind of trip at least once a month. There are people doing that kind of trip every week because driving is cheaper than flying and more flexible than taking the train.

[@alex98b627]

Yeah sure, I get it. But that must be such a small percentage of the car buying population. Maybe 5%? Which is why I don’t understand how it’s become such a thing. If it impacts 5% or less of the buyers out there then it shouldn’t be a thing. Surely for 95%+ of car buyers a range of even just 100 miles would be totally sufficient for 99.99% of their car trips. So 300 miles is more than plenty.

[@alex98b627]

@@CheapSushiI don’t understand the relevance of not filling up your gas tank. I would say that ‘most Americans’ live in single family homes and therefore would have access to plug in the car over night. So the partial pulling up at a gas station is totally irrelevant. Also stop start traffic is much better for an electric car with regenerative braking. So your 1 trip across your city is actually better for range than when you travel on the highway out of the city. So my point stands - for most of your trips a range of 100 miles would be more than enough. So 300 miles is surely enough over 95% of car buyers and car trips.

[@alex98b627]

@@CheapSushialso the not filling up thing happens in Australia but really only by students who don’t drive much. Your gas is soooo cheap so I don’t know why you guys are always complaining about it. Australia, Europe, UK has prices 2-4x more expensive.

[@justinjones6810]

Toyota sees that evs will not be viable for mass market adoption until certain specifications are meet which are consumers being able to charge the battery from 10 to 80 percent in 10 minutes and have 400 miles of range building electric cars before those two things have been achieved is ridiculous once the battery manufactures have cells that can do the charging rate as stated above that is when you push forward with electric cars

[@kornkernel2232]

​​@EnriqueThieleYep, and thats the tech is where goldilocks zone for EVs. Probably Toyota knew about this and will make one based on new tech. Now that just need to have the cost done and truly reliable. Still too new and not yet well proven Toyota is kinda conservative company, except they occassionally experiment. But for the most part they want that something that last since its their own reputation is in line here and wanted to keep that. Its not like ICE vehicles is completely banned in all countries, it will be a long transition still. Thats why they want to sell more Hybrids instead for now.

[@YeHtetWin]

@EnriqueThiele stop crying

[@billant2]

Why not charge from 10 to 100%? I don't refill my gas tank to only 80%, but always full. They might as well say charging from 10% to 100% in 30 minutes. lol

[@bradhaines3142]

the thing is even with those abilities, that battery is easily 1000-3000 pounds by itself. battery tech needs to move so far before the car itself is viable, and more importantly the grid needs 30 years worth of upgrades before it can handle them. most people dont realize an ev pulls more power than a whole house with a single charge, and most places the grid is almost maxed out in summer/winter.

[@billant2]

​@@bradhaines3142 - Exactly, let the blackout times roll! lol

[@davisdesigns1153]

Toyota has always made sensible choices, this shows the benefit of doing so

[@hojnikb]

except when they needlessly poured billions of dollars in to deadend tech like hydrogen.

[@Alarios711]

It's really weird that the video frames the full electric as greener than hybrid when the very document they read mid video seems to indicate otherwise. If you commute 12-15 miles to your job, you plug-in hybrid is pretty much going to run only on the battery. So you get an EV, that can do long trips on demand (or has a back-up if you forget to charge it overnight), has has 1/6 of the battery requirement a full EV has. It's like an EV but way less polluting to manufacture due to the smaller battery size.

[@thomasreese2816]

That 'material' is Toyota marketing, not research. EVs on a dirty grid are greener than plug-in hybrids. They always win

[@nicewall8311]

@@thomasreese2816 Producing an electric car produces significantly more emissions than an ICE car. Even the greenest electric cars, with small batteries, powered off a 100% clean energy grid take years to break-even. This is common knowledge that even EV enthusiasts are well aware of. Hybrids are absolutely greener in many instances, the reason EV people still push EVs is that rapid improvement of technology will start to widen the gap. But for now, in this instance, EVs are not as green as they may seem at first glance. Toyota is simply waiting for other companies to solve the problems EVs have and jump in later, for good or bad.

[@Yutani_Crayven]

Research shows that most hybrid owners use the vehicles in the same way as a regular ICE vehicle, meaning, people don't charge it often enough and run it on gas most of the time, negating the environmental benefit of electric motors.

[@philmarsh7723]

I want a plug in hybrid which has no transmission and where the engine only operates a generator to keep batteries charged and provide power and heat. Why are they still putting transmissions in hybrids???

[@yumameda]

Because the tiny electric motor they put in those cars are not enough to power the car. They only work low speeds for a short distance.

[@stephenberry8658]

Nissan X Trail E Force Electric drive with ICE generator or Mitsubishi Outlander plug in hybrid with EV drive train

[@danpro4519]

In other words, Toyota is smart as usual

[@khulhucthulhu9952]

the governor of California shared that there's now 100000 chargers in all of California!??? There's over 150000 of them in the Netherlands alone! that's 50% more chargers for less than half the population on a tenth of the land area!

[@vadskar64]

One should be in Midwest this week to see why EVs are not ready for the prime time.

[@ankylonshadow]

Until charging is as convenient as fuel stations, I am not going to buy an EV. Even if you could charge at home (not everyone can have a 3 phase fast charger at home), they still can't deal with longer journeys. Not to mention cold weather severely impact battery performance, as a driver I simply don't want to deal with all these stress.

[@drfisheye]

2,800 people per charger in California seems low. The Netherlands has 120 people per public charger, or 34 if you include private chargers. Did you mean DC fast chargers?

[@boxingtherapy87]

I was interested a few years ago about EVs. But now I am definitely more toward a hybrid

[@trucksanddirt1506]

I was also interested, but I'm keeping my gas car for many more years.

[@JonathanRose24]

Why? I have an EV, it’s awesome. I can’t imagine ever going back to a gas powered car again

[@boxingtherapy87]

@JonathanRose24 Well, affordability is a issue. At least for me. It's a investment I'm not ready to throw down on just yet

[@JonathanRose24]

@@boxingtherapy87 EVs have come down in price considerably, but if it’s a budget issue, that I can understand and can respect that. Gotta do what’s right for you.

[@JonathanRose24]

@@trucksanddirt1506 dangerous? How so?

[@leeswecho]

there's an important piece of information that makes all of these actions more understandable: there's only two companies that currently can build an EV for less than what they can sell it for -- Tesla and BYD. And its not even close. I've heard of negative margins on the level of the selling price of the car (i.e. costing almost double what its being sold for). For the moment, every other company is "faking it til they make it" and hoping they can figure it out before they bleed to death. It's why GM ended the Bolt (and hoping to reintroduce it on its hopefully-profitable Ultium technology platform).

[@artfuldodger5933]

Great video, earned my subscription. One note: I hoped for a more robust discussion of Toyota's critical minerals concerns. I watched the linked video, which is interesting, but it's about lithium alone. What about the other, rarer critical minerals? Another video topic? These issues will be more and more salient as the energy transition era continues.

[@coreylee9504]

Toyota’s business model has always been to perfect existing technology, not to pioneer new technology - this is a big reason why Toyota has such great reliability. This and their commitment to process improvements through incremental steps. They’ve always been the last one in on new tech to optimize costs and return-on-investments. This is not a new playbook, just an old one on steroids

[@moatplay]

How I see it Toyota went all in on hybrids. They are the only company to have most of their line up available as a hybrid including their Lexus brand. Building cars is hard and it’s difficult developing brand new automotive technologies. As an example, any company that can build a successful nuclear power car will have the exact same problems EV makers are having today.

[@Wacko2-wrx]

I recall seeing a KZbin item about a 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid with a failed hybrid battery which cost $6000 US to replace. So the dilemma was do you spend $6K on a 16 year old car. That’s the concern going forward with hybrid vehicles and the same applies to EV’s. The reality is that you pay more for a hybrid when new and the potential dilemma into the future is the depreciation of the vehicle plus the cost of a battery replacement which must impact on the used car values.

[@JohnDotBomb]

My roommate loves his plug in hybrid! He goes through a tank of gas every few months. It weighs less than an EV so it's probably more efficient, and it cost less carbon and money to produce. I think a 40-60 mile range is great to cover the 90% of driving for much less investment

[@stickynorth]

Oh yeah? What's his name? This smacks of a fake story used by anti EV people... Or worse? AI!

[@tribalypredisposed]

Not more efficient than any but the most absurd EVs, like the GM Hummer EV.

[@someguy2135]

What model of Toyota does your friend have? Prius Prime or RAV4 Prime?

[@tribalypredisposed]

@EnriqueThieleA good hybrid, like a plug in Prius, is as good as going vegan for reducing emissions, it is significant. It is not as good as a similar size Tesla, say the Model 3, but it is probably comparable to some of the bigger less efficient EVs, like the new GM Sierra EV. If people are only willing to eat less meat, I encourage them to eat less meat, if they are only willing to buy a hybrid, I encourage that as well. All these extremists screaming they don't want EVs, they want electric mass transit, the even more extreme don't want that even, everybody should just bicycle...it doesn't get us anywhere. Accept what people are willing to do gratefully and then wait for them to be willing to do more.

[@kalmmonke5037]

energy effiency is not a endgoal, its a means to a end@@tribalypredisposed

[@B11O567]

I wonder how second-hand EVs and their trade-in values are going to affect brand reputation. If your cars are undriveable after 10-15 years that’s going to put a pretty big damper on your reputation.

[@bobby350z]

Man I have seen 2 BZ4X in the last one yr in SF bay area. I normally see 20 Teslas in < 1 min on the road here. And that BZ4X isn't cheap either. It costs as much as Model Y. So for me, Toyota has itself to blame.

[@dickiewongtk]

Blame for what?

[@codechrist]

I don’t understand this comment? Blame for what? …Very uneducated and ignorant comment. Please go back and do your homework! Fail!!

[@bobby350z]

@@dickiewongtk - Making expensive EV which doesn't compete with the competition.

[@linusa2996]

@@bobby350z Per Toyota, they can make 6-10 Hybrids for the materials it costs to make 1 EV. That's not marketing, that's from the CEO of Toyota.

[@bobby350z]

@@linusa2996 - And you believe the CEO of any company?

[@newscoulomb3705]

8:23 To be fair to the person who was distinguishing between Teslas and other EVs, they might know that Teslas are EVs, but they also know that they are in a separate category due to their isolated charging standard, network, etc. (yes, I know that's changing, but that is a relatively recent development). In fact, it sounds like they've likely driven and travelled with a Tesla, but they struggled to find meaningful Superchargers where they needed them. However, they've been told by Tesla folk (as we all have) that if you can't find charging for a Tesla, you definitely won't find charging for a non-Tesla EV (despite the fact that there are still at least four times as many public fast charging locations as there are Supercharger locations in the United States). Basically, I think you need to read between the lines with what they were saying because from my perspective, they might have been the most well-informed person you interviewed in this video.

[@R0Tl]

At 6:41 Toyota didn't say the material in 6 BEVs could make 90 hybrids. As it says right there on the image that you showed, they can use the material in one BEV to make 6 PHEVs or to make 90 regular HEVs.

[@samin90]

And yet they don't many anywhere near enough. My local Toyota dealership has 5 cars on the lot, not hybrids, just cars. Meanwhile the Model Y is the best selling car in the world Clearly the raw materials aren't the problem

[@costis2024]

​@@samin90 in Europe almost 100% of Toyotas sold are hybrids

[@ijustfelldown]

​@@samin90 if your world only has a few developed parts of some North American and European regions, then Model Y is the best selling car. But it's not at all the best selling car in the whole world.

[@m15htarcudur3]

if u live in America, an EV is the perfect second car. Lack of charging infrastructure, low range, sub-par operability in the colder north- these things need to be addressed immediately. Electricity generation would have to be amped up as well in order to go all electric. Government isn’t all that keen to walk the walk- they just run their mouth. Even californian EV owners are struggling with charging infrastructure and power shortage these days. That state has been charging $2-$3 tax/ gallon of gas for god knows how many years now and they still haven’t addressed these issues. They did fuck all with all that taxpayer money- very frustrating to see this type of govt inaction.

[@Maebbie]

The video discusses Toyota's strategy in the electric vehicle (EV) market and why the company has been slower to adopt EVs compared to other car manufacturers. Toyota has focused on hybrids and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, citing challenges such as critical minerals, charging infrastructure, and affordability. The video suggests that Toyota may be intentionally "falling behind" on EVs to save its hybrid sales, which make up a significant portion of the market. However, Toyota has announced plans to release more electric cars in the coming years.

[@qn3734]

I have a 1998 Toyota Camry and it does the job

[@Bobtheconqueror42]

the bZ4X isn't even really fully a Toyota. it was made in collaboration with Subaru, and is virtually identical to the Subaru solterra

[@Kosciejas]

Toyota is just going to wait until it becomes mainstream. Keep doing their thing that is clearly working, and let others keep forcing EVs and figuring things out. It’s not like EVs are so green too so i totally understand them.

[@billant2]

Nothing wrong with that, in the meantime they keep selling less expensive and more desired gas cars. Mind blown!

[@Kosciejas]

@@billant2 exactly my point...

[@emmanuelgutierrez8616]

Like Polaroid waiting for digital to fade out of style lol

[@billant2]

​@@emmanuelgutierrez8616 - No, unlike Polaroid, Toyota knows that 90% of consumers still want reliable, less expensive, and long range cars. When the time comes they'll make plenty of great EV's at affordable prices. We're not there yet, battery technology the power grid needs to be upgraded first.

[@evancombs5159]

@@billant2 something everyone misses about the power grid, they are only going to upgrade it as the demand requires them. There is no benefit to the power companies to have excess capacity. They want to stay just barely ahead of the curve otherwise they risk wasting money managing those additional resources that they otherwise didn't need. The grid is the least of our worries, it will expand as our electrical needs expand, and no faster.

[@tedshen1716]

There's still a long way to go for the states. Up to end of 2022 there are 145k public charger built in Shanghai which rounds up to 150 persons per chager

[@Boardmanvogt]

I’ve also heard that Toyota’s supply chain is too big to fail within Japan’s economy, and a lot of local companies would go out of business if they abandon the internal combustion engine

[@JeffMathias]

People aren’t grasping the effects of carbon credits and diseconomies of scale. Manufacturers unable to produce compelling EVs by 2030 will just go away.

[@patrickbuswell]

You have a very good video editor! The content and presenter is excellent as well!

[@seanhepner7813]

Their hybrids are state of the art, will all last 2-3x longer than the average EV sold today, and everyone wants one. While so many automakers can’t sell EV’s or many of their other cars, Toyota has waitlists. People pay thousands extra for them. For being “so wrong”, they are actually killing it in sales and proving everyone they are doing it right.

[@yaxleader]

Anyone who says EVs are going to be 100% of sales within even the next 10-20 years are ABSOLUTELY out of touch with the average American. Electric cars have tons of problems: more expensive, less common materials, usefulness for work (towing, hauling, etc is TERRIBLE with EVs), charge times, finding charge stations, terrible used market (longevity of the battery can't be extended nearly as easily as a gas engine's longevity), batteries are awful in extreme temperatures, you need highly specialized experience to work on any part of the vehicle, the live software updates mean your car can lose functionality with a single bad update, the list just keeps going on. The ignorance of these issue's by so-called "environmentalists", journalists, and tech-bros are why media outlets are "confused" as to why EVs aren't selling well. They are just objectively worse for your average American who does anything other than commute to-from work. Toyota understands this and opts for hybrids. Hybrids mitigate or eliminate a lot of the problems EVs face while still decreasing environmental impact significantly. Hybrids just work for more people, simple as that. As such, hybrids can reduce overall emissions far more than EVs can for the next 20+ years. Any true environmentalist would be supporting Toyota's approach, not mocking it.

[@alanmiller5018]

It’s April 09 ‘24, EV sales have slowed down and hybrid sales have maintained a steady pace. Looks like on the short term, Toyota’s gambit is paying. They are also carefully entering the EV market which will give them room once the sales pick up. Also, Toyota YTD on their stock is up 36% whilst Tesla YTD is down 28%.

[@thenightoffice2541]

I think alot of these automakers should consider making a sub-brand of EV only vehicles with their own dealership network. GM can bring back the Saturn brand and make it all EVs.

[@SMGSpiritRT]

That is a good strategy. Saturn by default sounds futuristic. And Ford could do the same bringing back Mercury and Stellantis the same with Plymouth or Chrysler, or at least save it because they don't know what to do with the brand.

[@axel3895]

People have memory of gold fish. No one remembers Saturn except car people. Brand value is everything today.

[@YeHtetWin]

@EnriqueThielestop crying

[@newscoulomb3705]

9:35 Granted, a poll of ~1,000 people is really small and not likely to be representative of the country as a whole, but 60% of people being concerned about the environmental impacts of EVs is a testament to just how effective the recent fossil fuels company disinformation campaign has been.

[@frankdatank5002]

Btw it’s not just the fact we have little charging infrastructure it’s the fact the power grids can not handle an all electric car world. Remember last summer in California hit 90+ for a few days?? They demanded you turn off ac and turn your lights off. They had to do rolling blackouts. Think it could handle all cars being electric?? Especially at the same time they are taking nuclear off line. Wind and solar won’t work so it’s gonna burn more coal and still won’t handle it. This is crazy. In 100 years they will look back how stupid and easily fooled/sold we were on this stuff. This and the 873 genders history is gonna rip us a new one.

[@waynespringer501]

AGREED the California Air Resource Board is a MAJOR PROBLEM!

[@filippxx]

I would force the Toyota CEO being carried like royalty in best cars Toyota can make, to walk at least 30 minutes in a busy city at rush hour. We live in a world where mega rich pricks are deciding environmental policies based on a deck that they get in an office totally isolated from it.

[@YokubouTenshi]

The hybrid model is the only economically viable option so far, even without incentives. EVs don't make any sense unless governments take taxpayer money and give it away to EV makers.

[@CodyDavis91]

Incorrect. First and foremost, the cost of electricity is generally lower than the cost of gasoline. As a result, EV owners can save a significant amount of money on fuel over the lifetime of their vehicle. Additionally, the cost of electricity is more stable and predictable than gasoline prices, which can fluctuate greatly due to various factors. Second, EVs have fewer moving parts than hybrid vehicles and require less maintenance. This means that EV owners can save money on maintenance and repair costs over the lifetime of their vehicle. For example, EVs do not require oil changes or tune-ups, and their brakes tend to last longer due to regenerative braking.

[@lordt78]

@@CodyDavis91 EVs are good for those reasons you mentioned but right now hybrids are the way to go. Stop trying to push back!

[@tribalypredisposed]

Lol! Yeah, give me the car with a higher production cost, lots more maintenance, worse efficiency, worse acceleration, worse cargo and passenger space, way more things that can break, because it is more "economically viable." Yes, the base model Toyota Prius is $27,000 and the base Model 3 is $39,000, but your five year ownership cost is lower for the Model 3 since it will retain more of its value and have lower maintenance and fuel costs.

[@MM-fe9mz]

Might be smart to hold out since then they can capture the "don't want an ev" market when other manufacturers stop makimg gas cars

[@hojnikb]

Unfortunally, boomers are getting older and with less purchasing power every day.

[@cjg6364]

What school did you go to? Toyota's data is correct. EVs powered by lithium ion batteries are not scalable or sustainable. I know basic math is challenging for the generations that have grown up with a cell phone stuck to their hand, but try to understand this fundamental difference between EVs and Hybrids. Current popular EV batteries typically weigh about 1200 lbs. Toyota's Hybrid batteries typically weight around 80 lbs. When one considers the cost and availability of lithium ion battery materials and the projected future costs and availability of those materials, Toyota's assessment is spot on. Teslas are great for insufferable virtue signaling affluent twits who know nothing about engineering, materials science, physics, or manufacturing processes. They are a fantastic solution for a society that wants to revert back to the horse and buggy with only a small affluent segment maintaining the ability to travel in an automobile. Now, before your head explodes with too much information and you start staring into your cell phone again with a blank expression on your face, let me hit you with one more important scientific fact. Current state of the art battery power has an energy density that is about 1/50th that of gasoline. The implications this has for transportation industry efficiency are enormous - one key reason you will never see a transportation industry that includes large trucks, earth-moving equipment, ships, trains, or planes that are powered by batteries.

[@RicCross]

I agree with the exception of that last part… trains, mining equipment are “diesel-electric” a.k.a. “Hybrid”. Fundamentally replacing the existing fleet of consumer ICE vehicles with BEV is not going to happen in 10 or even 20 years due to “math” … resources do not exist and to top it off no way to produce that much power. IMHO the whole EV gambit is about control

[@cjg6364]

@@RicCross I agree about the control bit and the opportunity for useless frauds (politicians) to latch onto a scenario that gives them unprecedented power. However, you are incorrect about the diesel electric part. There is no battery storage of electricity on heavy mining equipment or trains. The diesel generator/motor combination's primary function is efficient energy conversion that optimally matches load to the available form of power - in other words, an efficient, rugged, and effective transmission of sorts. There is no need for energy storage and none was ever created for those applications to my knowledge. But again if you have real examples of battery operated trains or drag shovels, I'm all ears and eyes.

[@RicCross]

@@cjg6364 Apologies, did not mean to imply that these industrial applications were using “stored” power in batteries merely that they were/are hybrid systems… which to my way of thinking strengthens the argument for more investment in hybrid systems, I.e. the Edison project

[@viktorianas]

EVs depreciate 50% in a couple years, nice to buy used, but what a lunatic would buy as first buyer... It's like people who buy new Alpha Romeo...

[@modemlooper]

I would never buy a full electric. Good luck replacing batteries when they all wear out.

[@agordon333]

I would agree with you if there were no such thing as innovation or Wright’s Law. Batteries will be recycled, innovation will lead us to new battery form factors, we will eventually be able to charge batteries faster, and the cost of batteries will decrease. All this is happening as we speak. If what you’re saying is true, we would still be driving Ford Model T.

[@Fireballsocal]

@@agordon333 Agree wholeheartedly. Would you bet your hard earned money currently (See what I did there?) to buy an EV knowing that a replacement battery in 15 years may cost substantially more than what the vehicle would then be worth? And that as that knowledge comes to light, resale on EVs will continue to drop till it finds its balance? That's a hard sell in my eyes. I'll stick with my ICE.

[@linusa2996]

@@agordon333 At this point only 5% of EV batteries are being recycled.

[@PsychedMedia]

I have spent more money repairing a vw tsi engine and dsg gearbox and a peugeot (bmw mini) engine than the cost of replacing an EV battery

[@linusa2996]

@@PsychedMedia the key problem there is bmw engine

[@kellymoses8566]

Plug-in hybrids make the most sense.

[@MissSarahEK]

“We’re orange” 😂

[@GG-si7fw]

To add, China overtook Japan as the largest auto exporter this year and Germany the year before. China is flooding the world with mostly EV's and some gasoline vehicles. Toyota's current BRZ4X EV is a joke for a manufacturer of their size.

[@Yayadays111]

Hybrid just makes more sense unless you have a whole infrastructure setup including your own house. Even in today market, EV charging can be quite a mess. Honestly if people are screaming about environment then tax more for SUVs because those are just less energy and space efficient and not necessary. And sedan is getting squeezed out just because its not trendy anymore

[@somesituation]

$60k battery replacement = no way

[@yulusleonard985]

isnt that story is all about dealership? The real cost for battery replacement is 12k

[@jamesphillips2285]

@@yulusleonard985 More than one Canadian Hyundai dealership quoted more than the car is new for a battery replacement. With just minor external damage: taking the whole battery apart, inspecting every piece, and then putting it back together again, replacing as many components as necessary: should cost less than even the $12K figure you quote.

[@yulusleonard985]

@@jamesphillips2285 12k is from Sandy Monroe who tear down IONIQ 5 who said the battery is 12k. 60k is from dealership and insurance company who want maximum profit from their customer.

[@minhnguyen5253]

Government needs stop controlling how businesses are run! EV and minimum wage - stupid. Let people decide!

[@lanzer22]

If companies can convince us that smoking is good for you, I’m not surprised that people think climate change is not real and EVs are bad. People still haven’t figured out that the narrative of the largest industry is the opposite of what you should believe.

[@lanzer22]

@@CheapSushi It's odd that you're literally supporting climate denial studies that are sponsored by Shell and other oil companies while saying that whoever support the mounting evidence on climate change and the impact on EV is "taking in a minimal amount of information"... There's literally hundreds of studies by now, outside of EPA, outside of EU's environmental board, but by universities across the globe, and it doesn't take that many hours to read through a good number of them. It's so odd to see people assume that when someone doesn't think like them - that it must be because they haven't studied or learned enough. That's not even a basis for starting an argument. Like, present some study, present data, that's how you can start an argument. Start with an insult? Well that only paint a picture of who you are.

[@fuehnix]

"don't want to run out of power in the snow, we're in cleveland". Lol I'm in the outskirts of chicagoland, and I see definitely more than a handful of Mustang Mach-E cars driving around.

[@haroldoldhair8185]

Toyota was right.

[@Sabundy]

Toyota is just showing how smart they are. They know the market and are not blindly jumping in when said market is clearly not ready. And the vast majority of the world is nowhere near ready. And thsts without getting into the maby issues that EVs still have. Meanwhile Toyota is preparing. Is doing RnD and developing their EVs. And they will almost certainly have a great line up thats ready to go when the market is ready. And the proof is in the pudding. Just look at how much companies like Ford and VW are struggling. They are losing tons of money. All because they just blindly jumped into something thatbis clearly still at a nascent phase. In short.... Toyota has simply read the market correctly.

[@andresmattos7541]

Read about the recent Toyota mass recalls and toyota owned Daihatsu scandal.

[@stickynorth]

Bingo! The company is a complete shit show... They are the GM of Japan and that's not a compliment... Any competent company has figured out how to make EV's profitable by now without the subsidy... Only dying companies like Toyota, VW or GM are acting like it's not possible...

[@DoubleCTech]

This is great reporting! I think the main thing holding back EVs in America is all the misinformation. I drive an EV and I would never want to go back to an ICE. To me there are 0 compromises they are just different and better.

[@issuesexplained681]

Toyota has always been careful before making big changes to their vehicles, I think they better understand where the market is really at right now.

[@Spencergolde]

From an emissions point of view, if you can get 100% of consumers to use a car that has half the emissions of the alternative, or get 30% of consumers to use a zero emission vehicle and have the other 70% use straight gas, than you'd end up with fewer emissions in the first case (the hybrid model). Generally, the half-as-good option that's easier to adopt, that requires less of a lifestyle change, can have a far greater positive impact than the great option that requires changing habits. Granted EVs are often easier to use and require few life style changes, but most people don't know that yet

[@noodlechrist4958]

Ah yes, the CEO of Volkswagen. Such integrity.

[@Sameer-d7w]

I heard Toyota is hedging a bet that EVs are not the way to go and it appears they’re winning as of right now.

[@Caniac76]

I have a 2022 KIA Niro EV, which no one would say is a great car. I will never go back to a gas-powered car. Most people buy a car with the most horse power they can afford. EV's have instant power for merging, which is why people want that horse power. Charging at home overnight is super convenient. In the U.S. the range may be a problem because of the size of the country, but everyone should buy an all-electric as their second car. You will love it.

[@familiant72]

What education does the author have? Technical, economics? People without any knowledge on the topic talking like experts. That is why we have so many problems in our economy. Politicians know even less and listen to these "experts."

[@abrahamsneo7783]

Never seen a single EV here in South Africa. We're not ready for that .

[@FlyxPat]

Toyota says it will have long range, fast charging solid-state-battery vehicles but not for 5 years.