Why United Airlines Chose Pratt & Whitney Engines For Its Airbus A321neos

During the 2023 Paris Air Show, many were taken aback by United Airlines' surprise announcement regarding the engines to power its future A321neo family fleet, an order consisting of 70 A321neo and 50 A321XLR aircraft. The carrier sided with Pratt & Whitney geared turbofan (GTF) engines - more specifically, the PW1000G. Given Pratt and Whitney’s challenges at the time, many were surprised that United didn't opt for the competing CFM Leap-1A for its A321neo fleet. One year and many new issues later, the situation is even worse with the GTF engines. So for today’s video, let’s take a look at why United sided with Pratt and Whitney rather than CFM…
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[@keith_5584]

Dude, 3 videos in 4 hours? You are killing it.

[@N_g_er]

Better help is a scam

[@theoneandonlybosable]

These are churned out by AI. Their website also posts low effort AI articles.

[@keith_5584]

@@theoneandonlybosable I was talking about the VA, but I didnt think about them being an AI voice. Feels wrong to completely retract my appreciation, so I’ll put it in a quantum state.

[@Eric_Bassett]

@@theoneandonlybosable I absolutely hate the rise of Ai on KZbin. I miss KZbin’s homegrown inde era when it was all everyday people doing their thing. The google buy out came with some cool stuff, but this is just such a different feel at this point.

[@JungleJetAviation06]

I can guarantee you this voice is an actual person lol you can tell because sometimes he sounds sick and sometimes someone else fills in lol.

[@Capt.OggyPeabodyOfficial]

Cebu Pacific had struck a US$24,000,000,000 deal to purchase over 150 Airbus A320neo aircrafts and opted to choose PW Engines instead of CFM LEAP

[@Sacto1654]

I wonder a factor of United being able to repair engines on its own with Pratt & Whitney's full approval means that United could replace defective parts at its major maintenance bases in San Francisco and Indianapolis (for starters!). Delta Airlines services all the jet engines of the airline fleet at several maintenance bases, particularly TechOps in Atlanta; they are certified by Pratt & Whitney to do full engin teardowns and upgrades.

[@ronparrish6666]

A bit like Delta and Air Canada with the 220 they got the spare engines and the maintenance facility's to keep them going

[@rafaelrafoso]

I think they did it because the LEAP 1B is in the 737 Max. Imagine now all LEAPs get grounded. All of their small sized domestic planes would be grounded. Now if they have different engines in different airplanes... Similar to splitting CFM56 and IAE2500 in A320 while also having 737 NG

[@sheahargis7453]

United DOES NOT have a maintenance facility in Indianapolis. They sold that off 20 years ago, among everything else maintenance related they sold off/ outsourced.

[@slunasaurusrex]

United also as a contract with the Air Force to do maintenance on their C-17 Pratt and Whitney engines. Keeping it all PW makes a lot of sense from their logistics and in-house abilities perspective.

[@ChapaLipar]

@rafaelrafoso Yes splitting the risks is a good idea, but I remind you that the 737MAX were not grounded because of the engines. Pratt is very good in marketing and communication. They always make believe that they will solve their problems in the coming months. If you look back they said that from day one. And 10 years after EIS they are still working on it 😳 The GTF is a good idea on paper but is a very big challenge to make it work with the reliability airlines expect. This engine was not well born and the problems faced are pushing Pratt to redesigns that affect the engine behavior every time. It’s far from the product improvement we normally see during engine life, it’s design changes. It’s the same story we’ve seen for the V2500 long time ago. Pratt designs formula 1 engines, very efficient, and then tries to make it more reliable. CFM does the opposite. They make the engine reliable and improves the efficiency over time. This is why their market share is not so good at the beginning but increase over time. Same story repeats again.

[@josen408]

Historically speaking, United has always used P&W engines. Not to mention the fuel consumption advantages, and their ability to repair future engines it makes sense for them.

[@rafaelwilks]

Too bad for UA

[@roberts9095]

The A220's PW1500Gs are having a lot more issues, hence the larger percentage of 220s being on the ground. The PW1500G has been having chronic issues with combustor wear and the #3 bearing seal or the bearing itself failing prematurely. There have been a number of cabin fume events on 220s attributed to the bearing seals failing and leaking oil into the engines' compressor.

[@redonebeatbox]

Probably someone at PW promised huge discounts and bonuses to someone in UA, in exchange for public support by ordering those engines in such hard times for PW

[@soccerguy2433]

PW can't give bonuses to UA

[@charlie7mason]

@@soccerguy2433 Not to UA but to 'someone' at UA. Get it?

[@andresmith9212]

@@soccerguy2433 No but they can bribe.

[@ChapaLipar]

What I heard from an instructor from United is that long time ago United had a concern with a GE engine. GE refused to take this engine under guarantee and United had to support all the costs. From this day, the United CEO declared internally that as long as he is in charge of the company , they will not buy a single GE engine again. In this industry the relationship is more important than the product. Well, WAS more important, because today the airlines are driven by financial people, not engineers any more.

[@charlie7mason]

@@ChapaLipar There's not a single thing in the entire universe that finance people haven't ruined. A blight upon society and humanity is what they are.

[@SamuelBarringer]

I was not surprised about United Airlines choosing Pratt & Whitney engines for their Airbus a321 NEO’s. United Airlines has used Pratt & Whitney engines for decades. The Boeing 747’s, for many years their Boeing 757’s, their Boeing 767’s and many of their Boeing 777’s have used Pratt & Whitney engines.

[@dmcr9525]

Very true. Not to mention United and PW are predecessors of the same company. They are only GE heavy because of Continental, and the fact that the 77W is only available with GE's.

[@savagecub]

All the UAL 757s with Pratt engines were parked years ago. The only 757s they currently operate are the legacy CAL 757s with RR engines. UALs 777 with Pratt engines are so weak on second segment climb the US Department of Defense will not allow those aircraft to be used for military charter. Rather the GE powered 777s are fine for this. Also legacy CAL aircraft.

[@Roboseal2]

Plus united, Boeing, and p&w all started from the same company are long time ago

[@ELcinegatto87]

Original United Airlines, absolutely. Continental, not so much. They were mostly a GE customer whenever available. The new combined United was run more like COA than original UAL, but the PW history no doubt played a part in going for the GTF. Truth be told they probably got a killer deal on them. The pros and cons though is the GTF is a more advanced design and efficient engine than the LEAP, but the GE consortium offering is a higher quality/better built product. The LEAP series is essentially a scaled down GEnx, which itself is an evolution of the GE90 base. When the GE90 came out, it was 10-15 years ahead of anything PW and RR were making at the time. It was that good. GE still enjoys a technological advantage over both in many areas today because of that -- however unlike RR, PW has caught up the most and actually surpassed GE in specific areas like GTF tech. RR needs to make a new narrowbody transport category engine to compete with the LEAP and PW GTF. Not another evolution of their long in the tooth and outdated Trent platform.

[@banstaman]

It is also worth understanding that with the A320ceo, they were IAE and not CFM. IAE is largely P&W so they were probably able to score a better deal and service contracts.

[@fotiskantis]

Wait IAE engines for A320 ceo are simply P&W engines?

[@sbaviationcol]

@@fotiskantis IAE was RR/PW JV. While RR left IAE years ago, they designed the V2500 with technologies borrowed from the RB211 and the PW4000

[@Wh0s.Sebas27]

@@sbaviationcol So thats why V2500s look alike RB211 but smaller??

[@Roboseal2]

@@Wh0s.Sebas27 Yes indeed. The cowl and Fan was designed by Rolls Royce. Hence the appearance and "buzz" sound.

[@ChapaLipar]

Also Rolls Royce left IAE when Pratt proposed the GTF for the V2500 renewal. Rolls did not believe in the Gearbox design. They were already working on the Ultrafan and they knew how difficult it was to make it work.

[@ZRHTrainspotter]

Personally i love CFM LEAP more

[@icare7151]

The current major P&W GTF issue was due to a contamination metal powder from a supplier. The powder is used to create major turbofan engine parts which also negatively affected other turbo fan engine manufacturers such as GE. The P&W revolutionary game changer planetary gearbox has been flawless. P&W GTF Engines are the most fuel efficient, environmentally friendly and quietest turbo fan engines available today.

[@Plen3716]

As long as the issues are resolved soon, plus the fact new gtf engines have gotten better than old ones, this seems like a good decision for operational performance. A good example is the Qantas group where Jetstar needs the simplicity and reliability of CFM while Qantas can bear the cost and go with performance with the gtf like United.

[@Roboseal2]

In short terms the reason they chose them is because (For those who Didn't know) Boeing, P&W, and United airlines all originated from United Aircraft company so it would make sense that they stay loyal to each other.

[@FitzArias]

The family factor is part of it. Boeing, United, and PW will forever be related. Even Continental is not a distant relative of United. it is not surprising these two related airlines eventually merged. I hope UA will have better luck than the airlines who bought the early GTF engine units. One airline already went bankrupt because of it.

[@Tpr_1808]

United and PW are like a married couple, for the 777, 757/767, 747 and probably any type that has it as an option

[@JLC-p6r]

On E2-195 these work great. quiet and powerful, and no issues so far. But I am not a fan of the loud moaning they make when reducing speed or acellerating.

[@fxhomie1]

Some call it the Wookie sound, others the Whale sound. Either way it’s unmistakable.

[@rafaelwilks]

Not if you ask KLM - they've been struggling with them for over a year, with a magnitude and scale of reliability issues that just don't happen with the good old CF34.

[@rafaelwilks]

Terrible decision. The P&W GTF is basically a good reduction gearbox attached to a bad engine. According to AeroInside, United hasn't had any GE90 engine trouble on any of their B777-200 since 2019, whereas just this year alone, they've had at least three instances of trouble on their PW4000-powered B777 fleet. And don't forget UA1175 and UA328, where their PW4000 engines had fan blades that spontaneously disintegrated in flight.

[@ELcinegatto87]

The PW4000-112" is a garbage engine. I wouldn't go that far on the GTF, it's actually a decent engine and PW is just about on GE's level tech wise. Just not in build quality/reliability. RR is a decade behind GE and bit less PW. The GE90 is probably the greatest engine ever built it's an engineering marvel. The GEnx is an evolution of it with some CF6-80E core evolution sprinkled in and the Leap a scaled down GEnx. RR is stuck on minor evolutions to the Trent core. But the PW GTF will be a good engine when the teething issues are sorted. PW bet the company on it.

[@artureff3046]

Current risk vs long term profits. Risk taking decisions usually benefit long term, but have become rare in over bureaucratic organisations.

[@rodneynicholls6537]

why haven't you mentioned the advantages of the planetary gear set that drives the fan on the pratt and Whitney engines.

[@PVZBlover]

This is the reason why 5J and PR choose the PW GTF for their A321neos claiming that it had a higher bypass ratio, fuel efficiency and less noise

[@evildoctorbluetooth]

United placed the order in 2023. It is likely they won't receive their planes for a couple of years. I think they were gambling that the issues faced by the GTF engine would be over by the time the plane is delivered, while also being able to leverage the issues the GTF is facing now, into a cheaper purchasing price.

[@mandandi]

Agreed. GTF issues are being fixed, though it will take a while to clear the current issues. Only time will tell if the issues are permanently resolved.

[@rafaelwilks]

@@mandandi and once these current issues are fixed, new big issues will pop up, since they're Dependable Engines 🤣

[@mandandi]

@rafaelwilks All new technologies have had teething problems to varying degrees. As long as solutions are found, no one in their right mind would shy away from buying new technologies. No plane has fallen out of the sky yet due to the GTF engines. But it is affecting businesses, disrupting schedules too.

[@rafaelwilks]

@@mandandi granted, teething troubles are inevitable for anything new, but the GTF teething troubles are worse than any others.

[@mandandi]

@@rafaelwilks Might be true, from recent memory lane. Some of us are old enough to remember lots of other technological nightmares which have stabilised over the decades. If the GTF is not discontinued, then 10 years from now we might be talking about improvements, rather that the disasters that destroyed the Challenger or the European spacecraft that was destroyed after liftoff for using metric and non-metric systems for calculations. That caused a memory overflow and the spacecraft blew up, not able to deal with the figures presented to it. Smart people are finding solutions to issues all the time. Chill out.

[@JungleJetAviation06]

The engine has to be much cheaper than the CFM option…there’s no way it isn’t cheaper if airlines still continue to choose such an unreliable engine and are not purchasing the one that proves time and time again that it works.

[@RaY_77W]

Because they don’t know the truth behind the PW1000 issues, they’ll learn the leap is just better. Sure it might be a bit more efficient than the leap, but if the plane is actually flying and not on the ground for engine issues, then it will make more money.

[@Roboseal2]

The GTF advantage is most likely going to fix all those problems by 2026... They know the issues fair and square.

[@KevinBenskin]

Most of United fleet are powered by Pratt and Whitney

[@RedRoosterParty]

The GTF is a better engine. The current AOGs are caused by a supplier quality issue, not a design issue. The replacements will be complete and the engine will generate long term savings for United.

[@RedRoosterParty]

@puyofan_24 key word: current

[@sainnt]

United also had problems with the PW engines that they selected for their 777-200 aircraft. The only logical reason has to be money, the same reason why Delta dumped Boeing in 2014;and went with Airbus. Some discounts simply can't be resisted.

[@deanpesci8484]

HUGE problems on the 777. Almost got a lot of people killed in both Hawaii and out of Denver. I wouldnt fly one.

[@ryanlittleton5615]

Maybe. But UA has a long history of generally using PW engines. It's also worth noting those 777s were the 3rd and 4th 777s ever built.

[@thetruthbehindplanes]

@@deanpesci8484Has there ever been fatalities that are the 777 fault?no.have there been crashes where the 777 saves the day with its strong airframe?clearly yes.

[@ericroux8723]

@@deanpesci8484 What? There have been 8 hull losses of 777s. 2 were Malaysia Airlines flights that either had a suicidal pilot (really no other explanation) and the other was shot down by a BUK system, no effect from the plane. 3 were lost due to bad landings at Heathrow, San Francisco, and Dubai. The first of these happened in 2008 more than 10 years after the plane's introduction and all at very busy airports. 2 were fires that happened on the ground. 1 was an engine that broke apart. I don't think you can really put any of these mostly on the plane.

[@sainnt]

@@ryanlittleton5615 Fair enough. However, the newest 777, aside from the X variants, was the 300ER. The GE90 is the only engine option.

[@icare7151]

United Airlines is 100% correct in purchasing P&W GTF as current new engines coming off the production lines have significant refinements, improvements and in fact are even more fuel efficient than the earlier produced GFT engines for the A320 series of aircraft.

[@worldcitizenobjectivethink3764]

I think, looking at their decision they took, United were only driven by maximizing their profits. If you look at the gear ratio of the Pratt & Whitney compared to the CFM it was a clear choice that anyone would had chosen for the Pratt & Whitney from a commercial viewpoint. No one could had known back then that Pratt & Whitney engines would had major problems. Some decisions shouldn't be driven by a commercial point of view or the marketing from engine or airplane manufactures. In hindsight United would be better off profits wise with the CFM engines than Pratt & Whitney engines that needed to be grounded.

[@ChapaLipar]

In addition, the gear system is flawless but needs to be replaced every other shop visit. In such conditions it can be flawless but at which cost ?

[@jacobmoses3712]

How many more years will it take to deliver the aircraft with the PW engines compared with CFM Leap? I suppose it's not an issue if United is not in a hurry to get their new planes

[@uhhhwhat918]

Just a heads up, United is going to lease CFM LEAP A321neo's (no I don't think its due to the PW engine issues).

[@Roboseal2]

It is not, you are certainly correct. United just is in desperate need for new Narrowbodies because of Boeings delays. Pratt and Whitney just cant produce the engine fast enough.

[@filthywings353]

Why do PW engines have a green stripe in the nacelle?

[@magnustan841]

All jet engine nacelles have an abrasive layer to protect the inner metal casing from being damaged by the spinning fan. There is very little clearance between the fan blade tips and the nacelle, if its too damaged, the fan blade might catch onto the material and break. I guess the one PW uses is green in colour.

[@Maxwell1989]

Can you highlight the best major US carrier for shipping your pets in cargo the cost

[@NQUINNT]

UA also probably also got a better deal to buy those engines over CFM.

[@ryanlittleton5615]

United have a long history using PW engines.

[@KaamFraudy]

for jetblue, united own good they should switch the XLRs engine to CFM

[@adrianking6355]

United has always liked PW over other engines but with mergers they got others and if the plane only comes with another engine it is then they have to change

[@johnpatricklim4509]

Pratt & Whitney GTFO...? Dang....

[@frankiexv4533]

Probably a nice deal. Also the GTF will likely pay off in the long run as these issues will be sorted and it has an efficiency advantage.

[@rafaelwilks]

They've been trying to sort these issues ever since it entered service over 7 years ago, and that's a pretty long time for teething troubles to get sorted out 🤔

[@bobowens4165]

Providing you can keep the PW's running. The company is leasing 35 LEAP equipped 321's in 25. I'm curious to see the outcome.

[@Blank00]

Let me get this straight: Continental couldn’t affect United’s relationship with PW, yet Continental is to blame for the various problems United faced after the merger?

[@EpicThe112]

Excellent analysis here but starting in 2025 the leap versions will come in

[@IypeGeorge]

Let us see , how they perform

[@kristensorensen2219]

United was just after lower fuel burn. They burned the stockholders instead. Just lousy management judgement of unknown supply hazards? Or bad luck?

[@80KG_Costco_Chicken]

🤣Let’s not forgot United and P&W used to be the same company

[@TheKobiDror]

Why? Money! They got a deal they couldn't resist.

[@mazikkaluchka5562]

Tax breaks to RTX AND UNITED are a big incentive plus some rebates on volume pur hases from the goverment....!!!

[@rollvideo]

Do these PW GTF engines use powdered metal for their gears? I recently learned about powdered metal and I don’t think it’s wise to use this technology in high RPM situations.

[@sqpilot63074]

GTF have much lower fuel burn than CFM LEAP, United already maintenance in Pratt less 737 and its superior to LEAP.

[@rafaelwilks]

GTF - less fuel burn, less noise, and less reliability 🤣

[@johnpatricklim4509]

You mean the GTFO....?

[@deniermurch8693]

P & W sold them cheap, maybe even at a loss. It is always down to money, just like Boeing. (satire)

[@mohammedibrahim42]

Pratt and Whitney company is pride of Usa empire 🇺🇸absloutly amazing land of immigration most advanced country in the world

[@auro1986]

why? america will use american product till boeing doesn't make an actual airframe

[@barnesurban8165]

Airbus

[@gregoryschmitz2131]

The CFM engines do not share parts even in CFM-56 let alone the totally different LEAP1A or LEAP1B which are also not common (LEAP1A is larger). New build PW GTF have the problems resolved. Its the past builds that are in shops and holding up aircraft from flying. Equally PW has a lot of upside to better SFC with tech inserts LEAP does not. CFM has had its own issues though not as bad a PW.

[@TheShowblox]

If only they could choose good mechanics

[@jacobmoses3712]

Has Pratt and Whitney got the same disease as Boeing?

[@CoastarTestGuy]

I did not know that a graphics card company made jet engines

[@Capt.Umber_Raina]

😂😂😂😂 took me a bit, but I got the RTX reference

[@fxhomie1]

Pratt & Rip Me?

[@creativemindplay]

Ha.

[@mr.ssergeev]

Summary: "Specific reasons why the selection may have made sense for the American carrier can't be identified". Enjoy 7 minutes of your life!

[@thetruthbehindplanes]

United should have chosen 737 MAX.the a321neo is so old and its wingtips dont look as cool as the max.plus,the max isnt as bad as they say.i mean they do have max,but they should get a all boeing fleet

[@konni6694]

Dude what are you smoking? The 737 is way, WAY older than the A320 series plus the Airbus is hands down the better plane, even if you ignore the shit that's going on at Boeing atm.

[@thetruthbehindplanes]

@@konni6694 What is wrong with being old?and what problems are at boeing?if you listen to airlive ,youll see airbus suffers just the same as boeing.

[@thetruthbehindplanes]

and the 737 is only 2 generations older.

[@RobertsonDCCD]

@@thetruthbehindplanes If you don’t know what’s going on at Boeing, you’re living under a rock. Just ask a United 737 Max pilot what they think about having to turn the engine anti- ice off in order to keep the nacelle from failing. Granted, this is a CFM design issue, but as the sole engine for the Max, it’s also a Boeing problem.

[@thetruthbehindplanes]

@@RobertsonDCCD as for the sole engine issues,a350 also has only one engine option.so does a330neo.and more than 13000 boeings arrive safely without incident everyday.

[@anshgaggar4173]

First here

[@Elliasp-xx7mb]

it's Boeing fault 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣