Why Universities Are Going Bankrupt | Question Time

[@stephensimpson8531]

1:46 - Rory “pushing for midlife education”. Excellent idea. I’m a Brit now living in Sweden with my Swedish partner. She is currently “upskilling” in exactly the way Rory refers to. But the way this issue is framed in Sweden is different. Midlife education is not a service graciously offered to people in need by a benevolent state - it something the state and society provide because it benefits the economy. It is provided for free. It may also benefit individuals who get better jobs, but that isn’t the key point. The perception is that, as people gain new skills, they are better able to contribute productively - thus the education pays for itself. One of the problems with the uk is that there is plenty of education (the quality of some of which is arguable), but the uk has a productivity crisis and has done for decades. The education it provides is very expensive, those costs cannot be covered by the already overburdened tax payer since education in the uk seems unconnected with productivity. Basically, education, training and productivity can form a virtuous circle if done right. In the uk this circle doesn’t function. One reason for this is the exclusive focus on services. Fix that, then you can have high quality life long learning and training

[@lolly1811]

100%

[@danoneill8751]

Great comment. I think the popularisation of arts in the UK over the stem sciences is one of the biggest problems our economy has. When I was at school, a state school but one with a big oxbridge feed each year, they made a pretense for science, engineering & vocational degrees being important, but I was the only one of 15 kids who was applying for a science degree, every single other was doing history, english, etc. Frankly I think 18 year olds will always be put off, because its simply a lot harder. I did 8hrs in lectures followed by 4hrs of study every day for 4 years, friends doing English would go to two seminars of 3hrs a week and that was it, yeah, I'm sure the did lots of reading and work writing essays, but they absolutely did far less work overall. An 18 year old knows this, so they wont go into stem unless pushed. Although I think by the time my son is applying, they will all know that AI will take the jobs of anyone with less than an advanced degree in a technical subject, so that will help. But anyway, back to my point, the ratio of arts to sciences in the UK is just delusional, its madness and is a huge part of the reason our workforce is completely uneducated. Of course part of it is that our MPs are almost all humanities graduates, so none of them really know what it is to get a proper degree, none of them know how important it is... say as an engineer or software developer, to have deep mathematical training. Frankly, I think if they did then, they would have handled Covid a lot better. If the UK had more stem graduates, plowing money into the economy, and less drunken sociology students complaining about their debt, then the essentialness of govenement-paid courses at 18 and then throughout life, would be far more obvious.

[@stephensimpson8531]

@@danoneill8751 concerning the arts: this is maybe a sensitive topic, but I have a close friend who read history at Oxford. After finals, they post people’s grades on a notice board - presumably to humiliate some people and lionize others (they did this for me in stem too). My friend came top of his year, or maybe it was a very close second, I can’t quite remember. While he is very smart (I’ve never known someone better able to read and absorb vast amounts of complex information at the rate he does), his is not especially impressed by the Oxford history degree. These days he’s head of history at a minor university (former poly). He has told me that, in his view, someone of average intelligence could get a 2.1 in history at Oxford with only 2 hours of work a day, 5 days a week….well, I guess this explains BoJo, Rees Mogg etc. He also strongly believes that people getting first class degrees from his department, at the minor institute, would also get first class degrees from Oxford. This is actually confirmed by calibration tests in which exam papers are passed between institutes and blind marked. Like you, I’m a stem graduate and so is my partner. She works for a Swedish tech company. Last week one of the devices she has helped develop did about 700 million euros worth of sales. Because it’s Sweden, it is well taxed! And the money goes back into education, allowing Sweden to keep being a tech leader with a per capita gdp that the uk could only dream of, sadly….

[@tomtrotter1306]

I really wish Rory had got in and not Boris! I’m nearly 40, in a dead end job and haven’t learned any new skills in years (a lot of it my fault). It feels almost impossible to learn something meaningful in order to change career/job, whilst paying a mortgage and other financial commitments. I don’t see this situation changing any time soon either.

[@WeekdayProductions]

@@tomtrotter1306 yes, I believe industry investment in continuing education has plummeted which doesn't say a lot for the conservative rhetoric about apprenticeships

[@dadsbarmy254]

Privatization has literally sold this country down the river (Thames Water pardon the pun), lets hope this doesn't happen to our Universities. Which are becoming more and more commercialized with every year that goes by.

[@ogukuo97]

It's not privatization. It is the LACK of privatization. NHS should be privatized.

[@JupiterThunder]

Bliar already privatised the universities

[@dean8282]

Spot on

[@Notmehimorthem]

@@ogukuo97 Nope. I did 40 years in NHS, privatised services cream too much profit and cut corners on standards.

[@ogukuo97]

@@Notmehimorthem So you would have a vested interest in playing down privatised services, wouldn't you, especially if you are an administrator.

[@TonyTsobanis]

You dont need a sugar tax, you just need to tax wealth (eg anyone with over 10M in assets) as well as ensuring large corporates pay their fair share. I will never understand why this type of action is not discussed when there are issues like NHS and University lacking funds. I see the same problem in Australia (where I'm from)

[@leea659]

Wealth isn’t real it’s a number on a piece of paper If that number is turned into cash it’s taxed (CGT) If that number generates an income it’s taxed (up to 60% marginal rate)

[@lenabo9929]

i agree. But this isnt about actual taxation this is about public health. Which has gotten to a horrible stage in the western world. Im good bit over weight. The fact society is now fast food everywhere, and junk food is very affrodable and advertised everywhere does not help. You will get people that a taxation on unhealthy food should not exist and it disproportioantly effect the poor. That is true, but the poor also make up a large section of society. We need to make it affordable and desireable to change habits. Im not saying it need to be quick this will take time. But unless governments are willing push people towards a better direction we will have so many health issue. people do not want a state telling them what to do then also say fat people need to have self control. Self control is far more difficult when everything around you is based on bad food. Advertisement, the fact its cheep and tastes good. We allow companies to alter our choices without use acknolwedging it.

[@hughiemg2]

​@@leea659unless I am mistaken you are mixing up income tax margin tax rate at a possible marginal rate of 60% when you go over the 100k threshold. Income from this type of wealth would be capital gains which tops out at 28%, which is clearly unfair. There is also the fact that for larger wealth estates which are tax efficient minimal tax is paid which is even less fair. Some form of wealth tax is definitely needed

[@danoneill8751]

Couldn't agree more. Sugar is a simple one to go for anyway, if you are going to target those things, then sugar would be one thing, but you'd have to consider the effects of climate change and hence consider meat taxes (although if you put any stead in sciense and say the WHO, pork is pretty directly aweful for public health), and meat taxes are even less likely than sugar, so where's the logic in it? Mind you a wealth tax, however sensible and surely desperately needed to rebalance the ever worsening distribution, definitely isn't happening either, even the far poorer labour party in the uk is relatively wealthy (nothing like the torys but still far higher than average) and humans are humans, they wont create taxes that are to the detriment of their own class.

[@thelouisjohnson]

Still haven't seen a shred of compensation from my arts University after COVID, not even a bit of (non-verbal) consolation for how much face-to-face/studio learning we lost. It's no wonder they're struggling, they're too focused on their brands and books - putting more effort into a few top (or high-paying) performers than the larger student body.

[@laurajibson8945]

Spot on!

[@saulgoneman]

I feel less strongly about it than I probably should, but its undeniably a bit bullshit that the first year of my undergrad had no in person classes, my second year had like half online half in person, and then in my third year a bunch of classes were cancelled due to strikes. And I know student laziness is the norm, but I'd be surprised if getting so used to distance learning didn't contribute to the in person classes I did have being low attendance.

[@jonmoore176]

Not sure your uni should compensate you directly, government are liable in my view. It is the government that sets university policy and created the current system and they footed the bill for furlough in the pandemic.

[@mrvenom88]

I think that a lot of universities, if they'd had to pay back X% in compensation to the whole cohort for 2 or 3 academic years, would go insolvent immediately. This in turn means there can't be any acknowledgement of misfortune or wrongdoing, because then compensation could be sought.

[@finnmartinboanas9299]

How is it that Germany, Denmark, Czech Republic, etc. manage to provide quality university education without charging tuition fees, whilst England charges a fortune, yet, somehow our universities are going out of business? Where does all of the money go?

[@JupiterThunder]

Vice chancellors all earn at least £1 million. Bliar the war criminal privatised the entire university sector, and set up the loan system to line his own pockets.

[@dianamincher6479]

Because universities are no longer education facilities but businesses looking for profits and it doesn't work just like the businessman GPs!

[@Joe90V]

As someone who has been in continuous professional development all my working life, I wholeheartedly support the push for "mid-life education". Everybody should have the opportunity to improve and enrich their knowledge. It's rewarding in every way.

[@chocolatesugar4434]

Each student is paying upwards of £9k per year and they don’t have enough money???? How????

[@buzzukfiftythree]

So much of it is eaten up by administration, the ridiculously complex hierarchies in so many Unis and by wasteful spending in some areas. Fees also fund a lot of research nowadays because government has cut back on research funding.

[@stephenburwood2615]

Because: 1). fees for home students haven't kept up with inflation, 2). loss of teaching and research income due to Brexit, 3). decline in overseas student numbers, 4). no strategy on alternative funding mechanisms. (No prizes for who's to blame for all of these.) Is there also waste in the system? Not, in general, at the level of tuition.

[@eatmycomments]

Having worked for a university in income planning, I can confirm that universities massively benefitted from the change in £9k fee regimes. This is evidenced from considerable construction projects on every campus across the country over the last 10 years. The proportion of overseas to home students varies from institution to institution, so the drop in overseas students will invariably effect some disproportionately, this will be coupled with a drop in births around 2001 and 2002, but unis should be coming out of that soon, with home cohort numbers growing considerably over the next 10 years.

[@laurajibson8945]

Just look at some of their new buildings on campus! More like 5 star hotels!

[@dh1380]

Wastage, basically. Especially on food, so I am told.

[@buzzukfiftythree]

I think Rory would have made a much better PM than the last three or four. But I’m very glad Rory didn’t win the leadership in 2019. OK, we had to put up with arguably the worst PMs in modern history, but it finally revealed the Tory Party for what it now is - the nasty party, with so many incompetent ministers. I hear so many lifelong Tories now saying they will never vote Tory again. That makes me rejoice!

[@stuartbudd5026]

I'm an ex Tory member. He wouldn't have made a great deal of difference. He is against foreigners, so no single market, still trashing companies and loss of 4-6% of GDP. Ireland is the best bet now.

[@tomo_xD]

Neither of you even adressed how absurd it is to charge young people such a fortune for a university education. Saddling people in their 20s with such huge debt is a huge mistake.

[@williamj8349]

I’m assuming you want the government to fund it? Where would you take the money from out of interest?

[@PaulInPorirua]

@@williamj8349 Graduate tax.

[@bm8641]

The same place where Germany, Finland, France, Eastern Europeans ( with their super competitive Unis) are taking the money from.

[@PostingCringeOnMain]

@@williamj8349 You're assuming there aren't beneficial off-sets in the economy from having a highly educated work force... a lot of advanced economies don't charge for university like Sweden, France, Denmark, Germany and Austria. The business case exists in the same way it does for the NHS. You can't just simplify every policy to "This costs X so we must take the funds from Y" because government spending in the economy actually earns a higher return than what it costs - up to 9x. It's called the "velocity of money". A pound borrowed by the government through the central bank and spent into the economy can generate up to 9 additional pounds of value. Stop buying the Tory myth that a national economy is in any way equatable to a personal credit card.

[@hschsc1300]

@@williamj8349 Increased revenue caused by a workforce that is more educated and therefore more productive.

[@derekgillan7314]

Universities are just businesses, some are run well, some not. Research brings in money, Brexit did have a negative as partnerships with European universities was not encouraged by Europe.

[@markendicott6874]

We "allowed" higher education to be turned into just another market - but it's not really. Nobody actually put it to a vote (just like raising retirement ages) it just happened without any real pushback or examination of whether it made ANY sense culturally or financially to do so. My Son - despite me subsidising him to the full extent i can - will leave Uni this year with about £20K of debt and an institution that's closing his course because they can't make it pay anymore. Clearly somewhere in that situation is a sum that didn't add up.

[@cybergornstartrooper2157]

Tuition fees were capped at 9k because they assumed Oxford and Cambridge would charge the full 9k and everyone else would charge about half that. Unfortunately, like many things this government has done, it did not work out that way.

[@rosalindchrister]

How was that not figured, any more than, In instituting a minimum hourly rate and living hourly rate, that some would refuse to pay more, and that eventually a minimum hourly rate does not become a living hourly rate nor eventually the one becoming a minimum wage, that could have morphed over time into a living wage, progress being circumvented, and both hourly rates becoming for many only a springboard instead to universal credit, and this becoming normalised for the lowly waged employed, a supplementary benefit primarily to whom. Indeed where does the money go, what percentage remains in the pocket of students or the low paid; and what a situation for graduates and school leavers to find to be their proposed future spread sheet, tapering budget upon budget; and in some areas situations remaining noticeably vacant: unaffordable unless, or even were their uptake to be mandated; and eventually requiring those taking the posts to apply to food banks, and other assistance. Yes, I heard it said to go with the flow, it is probably wise though to offer to employ a rat catcher.

[@pelagionyx]

As a British emigrant to Australia (not healthcare), the thing that really sets it apart from the UK is a sense of dynamism and change. Australia - at the federal and state levels - feels like a nation that is still building itself. Infrastructure gets built, debates are had, etc. Britain feels essentially ossified by comparison.

[@lolly1811]

100% agree with this. The stagnation, lack of ambition or ability to get almost anything built or done has contributed to The UK becoming an absolute dead zone. The country is an international embarrassment with no real understanding of how badly it’s doing because its run from London where so much of the problems aren’t visible.

[@philipmulville8218]

@@lolly1811 Very true.

[@freshwaterspaceman7194]

The country is currently run by a government that is primarily focused on stealing and enriching it's sponsors by as much as it can before it is thrown out. The clock is ticking. Meanwhile a vast swathe of the public are kept sedate with a tory run client media. The likes of Mone and G4S help themselves to millions if not billions of pounds from bogus contracts, so brazen they barely cover their tracks. Thames Water fails and HS2 is scrapped. Not to worry though as Tory donors like Frank Hester, Crispin Odey and Sunak's wife along with countless others have already cleaned up and will take their loot offshore, never to be seen again. There is no investment in Britain's future, assets are stripped and segments of the population are left to rot. See Russia since 1990 for a blueprint on how it will continue.

[@dexstewart2450]

What a ridiculous comparison: UK:- 244,376 km2, 66M people. Convict Land :- 7 688 287 km2, 22M people. Huge amounts of bugger all there, whereas in the UK you have to carefully manage what gets built where and how. Lived in Perth, the Pilbara, Newcastle and the Hunter Valley. It's not the Aussies doing it - it's the various immigrants

[@lolly1811]

@@dexstewart2450 “convict land” is an incredibly boring, backward insult. This is the lack of creativity that i’m talking about in real time. Your average English person is hell bent on dragging the UK into the bin.

[@michelelegge6287]

Medical staff here (in Australia) are still abused and there is signage everywhere in hospitals the same as UK. My daughter works for WA health and does not feel respected at all they have not had a decent pay rise in years

[@KimTebrok]

Bit like having a dog, this podcast gets you outside for a good walk. Love walking outside listening to these two. Doesn’t matter what your politics, they always provide something to stimulate the brain cells.🙌🙌

[@sunseeker9581]

Its easy listening. Wouldnt want them to be in charge of anything though.

[@lorilk2]

I am also an American listener. I found The Rest Is Politcs through Pod Save the World. I agree that our politics are much worse, possibly the worst of any democracy in the world. However I also see so many people who have been awakened as a result of the Trump years. I think that this might be the year we turn a corner and start to improve.

[@shaneintheuk2026]

In my opinion it was a massive mistake to create student loans rather than a supplemental % to income tax. That way wealthy students would have to pay their share instead of hitting middle income hardest.

[@andrewharrison7767]

they do use a supplemental income % to repay the loans for fees -i don't know how you're defining middle income, or wealthy ones, but repayments start once they start earning £25k (70% of median income), for context qualified nurses start on £28k, teachers start at £30k; so you're looking at starting salaries for public sector graduate jobs being 10-15% above the payback point. Even then my wife was losing less than £25 a month to loan repayment as an nhs band 5 - wealthy students will pay higher tax through income tax, and higher debt repayments

[@alastairsmith3237]

If a tax has been introduced (sugar tax) and hardly anyone has noticed it and demand has not fallen, is that not an ideal form of taxation? Also, if sales have not decreased then it is not 'punishing the poor' as sugary drinks/snacks are not a necessity. The sugar tax should be raised to subsidise unprocessed food/nhs meals/school meals.

[@andybrice2711]

As I understand it: Universities have massively increased their hiring and spending on administrative staff rather than faculty. It's not as egregious as in the US. But it's worth asking why that is.

[@thegoat11111]

Jobs for Freemasons?

[@jamesjarrett52]

Away from the hallowed libraries and lecture theatres, universities are bureaucratic and Kafkaesque. That's why.

[@andybrice2711]

@@thegoat11111 I very much doubt it. Unless somehow a lot of young female humanities graduates are also Freemasons.

[@duffybelle3502]

On the Sugar Tax topic: Having looked up the numbers it hasn't worked and is now ultimately just increasing the tax of the average calorie. When this came in I saw it as another example of the government not thinking about the route cause of obesity. You could consume no sugar and still be obese. There are many factors that contribute to obesity, lack of education, people are time poor, lack of health alternatives. I would copy how food is treated in Japan. Eating out and getting take away food from supermarkets and restaurants are, quick, cheap and healthy. Lunch is a lesson in schools where children learn about the food they are eating and help prepare it. Also all food has a lower tax than most other things at 8% (UK has it at 20%). I think all this leads to people having a more healthy relationship with food. (also as an athlete its really annoying trying to get a sugary drink and everything being diet)

[@johanneskentsch2617]

There was a part in „yes, minister“ on foreign students at UK colleges. Look it up.

[@heliotropezzz333]

Another thing about the NHS. I heard from someone in the know, that the government has told Universities not to train as many doctors, even though there are lots of unfilled vacancies. Clearly they seem to be aiming to fill the vacancies with lower qualified staff. A recent report has estimated that 285 people a week are dying while waiting to be seen in A&E. The governments policy will only make things worse. Junior doctors are the only medical staff that the government has not settled with since their strike, but junior doctors are the main ones people see in A&E. They have pointed out that they can get more pay working in a supermarket or McDonalds. That's a disgrace, and they can certainly get more by working in health services abroad. No wonder there are so many vacancies.

[@marcellobertotti4468]

Thanks. Such good listen.

[@Toni-qy6gl]

Thank you, guys . It was a very interesting and knowledgeable conversation 😊

[@noizydan]

How about massively reducing pay ratios within the NHS? Some staff are on rock star wages while others struggle on minimum wage. Percentage increases just compound this over time, particularly when those at the top regularly see the biggest increases. Reducing pay ratios in the country would facilitate increasing wages at the bottom with no overall increase to the size of the pot needed. This never seems to form part of the conversation on pay, but it should do every time.

[@neighbourhoodmusician]

How the fuck are universities failing when they take in such high fees? They're like 5 times higher than when I went. Let them fail if they can't provide value and the government needs to provide ways into industry that don't depend on putting yourself into debt.

[@SO-rq3pm]

poor financial management

[@laurajibson8945]

Spot on!

[@sunseeker9581]

Theyre CEOs and chancellors have huge salarys plus theyre constantly building student housing

[@matthewrampley1894]

You are all wrong. The problem is that the fee pays for everything. Tuition is only a small part. So the fee pays for the buildings, heating, lighting, plus all kinds of things you could not imagine. The cost of maintaining libraries has skyrocketed with publishers charging unbelievable amounts for journals. Plus all the administrative and managerial staff whose job is to introduce policies and fill in reports because it is what government demands. I used to work in a university in the UK and the amount of money that had to be spent simply stopping the buildings falling down was staggering. And it was fees that had to pay for it because there was nowhere else the money was going to come from.

[@shaneintheuk2026]

27:01 I would love to hear your thoughts on forcing Social Media to change their algorithms to emphasise results which get more likes than dislikes instead of adding them together. The current system promotes controversy and it could be modified to promote consensus.

[@oily4545]

Can only speak for my university which was an ex-poly. It seemed to be ridiculously admin-heavy (although obviously there's much more to running a uni than delivering lectures) and they would spend millions each year either re-furbishing facilities or building new ones. I'm not sure the amounts they were investing were worth it as many of the facilities seemed to go largely un-used. Then they, of course, had their fair share of courses that I'd debate were largely useless in terms of getting people into their respective industries.

[@laurajibson8945]

Some of the universities buildings look more like 5 star hotels! Especially the libary.

[@andybrice2711]

There's definitely something dodgy going on with all the extra administrative staff universities are hiring. I think it's a classic case of bureaucracies trying to expand themselves.

[@christinefiedor3518]

Some should never have been allowed to become universities. So many Mickey Mouse degrees and graduates can’t get jobs. I have seen uni graduates not even able to write a decent report. Beggars belief!

[@cybergornstartrooper2157]

The sugar tax is the Bain of my existence as sugar was simply replaced by sweeteners which I am allergic to. I am now unable to drink any fizzy drink other than classic Coke. If this was implemented in food it would be game over for me.

[@sunseeker9581]

I think youll be fine. They have to do something about our obesity rates.

[@farhadchaudhry]

I haven't drank any fizzy drinks for years. Join that club.

[@cybergornstartrooper2157]

@@farhadchaudhry good for you. So never gone to a restaurant and ordered a coke then? What do you order instead?

[@farhadchaudhry]

@@cybergornstartrooper2157 I have. Years ago. I now get water.

[@cybergornstartrooper2157]

@@farhadchaudhry brave person to drink tap water. Or do you pay stupid amounts of money for the posh stuff?

[@JoeCurran-s4x]

Thanks very much for this as always. It is good to see Universities discussed. As hinted at here, there are incredibly complex issues to be considered about the future of Higher Education. Too many people (on all sides of these debates) put forward very simplistic solutions. It would be great to have a future episode dedicated to this multifaceted sector. Thanks again

[@rpb583]

Think you missed out discussing that some universities are not providing value for the £9.2k - remote learning, for a tiny amount of time per week etc. No wonder people are questioning whether to bother.

[@ijw2009]

Working in the public sector I have seen several examples of people coming here on these student visas, barely turning up for the courses and then working illegally or through Fraud. Clearly it’s being exploited and needs addressing. If it means losing a few meaningless universities then so be it

[@caravanningwithcharlie]

The problem with the diabetes drug you mention is that people are using it for weight loss who do not have diabetes. This has led to a dramatic shortage in the availability of the drug. This means that diabetes patients who would really benefit from it can't get it!

[@DylanSargesson]

On Sugar Tax: it seems to me that the person who asked the question was thinking about a Sugar Tax that applied to foods too, not just some drinks as the current one does.

[@michaels8638]

fixing the universities is pretty simple, their paid by government for uk schools levers applying for placement, the sum equal to the sum the uni needs to ensure excellence. It’s such a nominal amount you could print the money it wouldn’t impact the economy. Party because you’re investing in the future of its people perhaps a stipulation that they have to repay their fees by working in the uk ensuring they don’t leave for the US or EU , thus their portion of tax generated would repay the cost in the long term.

[@andybrice2711]

I would argue that universities got too big to begin with. It was never a good idea to send so many people into academia. Most degrees don't significantly increase a person's long-term earnings. Many of those institutions should've remained polytechnics. And vocational qualifications should hold the same prestige as academic ones, like they do in Germany.

[@adventtrooper]

I agree. The government should invest in further education if it gave higher salaries that would return that investment via higher tax returns from increased salaries and innovation. To me the government shifting funding onto the individual was indicative that mass further education would not generate that return overall.

[@TheQuixoticRambler]

Yes. It is a liberal failure based on their inherent lack of imagination and several spurious beliefs. Including a type of snobbery which envisages a society of only white collar workers, where credentialism and scientism reign. Measurement and a veneer of science is sacred, and, so, anything that cannot be measured is, thus, automatically and systemically, ignored. This hubris around measurement combined with the vain snobbery mentioned-goes some way to explaining the rise of these pious prats who run around labelling anyone who questions establishment orthodoxies-a conspiracy theorist- while accepting anything the Feminist establishment says, wholesale and at face value.

[@andybrice2711]

@@adventtrooper Many people never have to pay back their student loans though. So I think it was more a way of shifting the cost onto future governments.

[@royhenderson9826]

The saying goes for them to! Go woke go Broke. 🇬🇧✌

I still can't understand where all the money goes! They charge a fortune, they aim for the very richest regardless of talent rather than educating the most (in terms of general population), and YET they're bankrupt? HOW? Hundreds if not thousands of universities around the world provide far better and more useful education for free or minimal cost, they don't go bust. What is so broken in UK's system then? What's causing them to lose money despite it all?

[@bearsbreeches]

Lets not forget Rory was a tory minister and collective responsibility should kick in. Hed never have got any of that through his party

[@adamfrank4192]

The only way to fund services is through much more taxes taken from those who can afford to pay it as they used to before the end of the 1980s.

[@vatsmith8759]

The main problem with the NHS is that too many people are making themselves sick with poor diets and lazy lifestyles.

[@heliotropezzz333]

Working long hours for poor wages, too tired to exercise after work and only able to afford cheap unhealthy food does not help. There is a strong link between poverty, ill health and early death. The elderly use NHS services most. You could argue that those who live longer use the NHS more.

[@vatsmith8759]

@@heliotropezzz333 Excuses, excuses. Good food is cheap enough and exercise can be free and easy to do at home. The elderly need not use the NHS so much if they remain healthy by eating well and exercising.

[@clivemitchell3229]

If, instead of a Student Loans outfit arranging the loans the University had to provide them then they were only repaid when the graduate reached a minimum income, then universities would be careful to only provide courses which had a good chance of being repaid. In the old days, only the academically brightest 2-5% went to university so fully funding costly courses was not a problem. Those with slightly lower grades went to polytechnics where they could learn useful trades or even gain an engineering degree. Sending half the young population to university took a lot of people off the dole queue for three years which worked well for short-term political thinking but created massive long-term problems. Finding a decent builder/plumber/electrician at short notice is a nightmare since so many technical colleges raced to become universities.

[@uknpdsurvivor660]

University funding is the next scandal to break. Universities say that fees would need to be double to reflect actual costs but it's a major jump for students and their parents. To fill the funding hole universities are heavily relying on foreign students, some with extremely low grades. I know of one Chinese student who is accepted to a London university with A level grades of U,E,D. Even the top UK universities are taking less able students if they will pay over 30k p.a. In a few short years UK universities have morphed into USA universities. .

[@foofung9961]

I'm currently in uni, albeit a not very good one (Uni of Leicester), and the sheer number of students who honestly don't understand basic English is a problem. I haven't had any experiences with Chinese students yet but I've had 2 separate cases of being in a group project with Indian students who simply cannot speak English at a level to pass University. The most recent one, a girl who I'm still in a group project of 8 with, has simply been absent and late to everything bar the day of submission where she panics and begs us to include her incomplete work. I've been in contact with the lecturer about this (not the English comprehension) and he has told me that because she's messaged back at least once I cannot give her 0% for contribution. Let's say I was able to give her 0% contribution- she would still pass the module because they've ensured 50% of the module grade is free. I know some Universities are built upon being free degrees for Internationals, but UoLei isn't *that* low a university if you do care for rankings. The quality and difficulty of the work provided by my university is honestly dreadful. I'm not afraid to admin that I've hardly studied this semester, due to laziness, and i'm still averaging 80% in all modules- not because I'm smart but because the work is too easy. I honestly don't feel as if I'm learning anything from university- as in, I don't see how it's making me more valuable for future employers to obtain.

[@LM-eu8le]

As an American expat, I can honestly and humbly admit that we have a whole load of shitty problems, many social and cultural ones. Upper education is not one of them. Not talking about the Ivies or MITs. The state university flagships, as an example, or any of the Public Ivies, offer a top-notch education for a fraction of the price (never free of course) and an in-demand degree at one of the top 75 universities, will almost guarantee you a healthy financial future. Granted, there are thousands of universities in the US, (regional universities, small colleges, 2-yr community colleges) which serve a different purpose. As tuition costs have soared, and student debt along with it, practical and down to earth students will choose their state flagship or another state university. It's not Princeton or bust. *That* is the good thing about American universities. Junior and senior high school is another thing altogether. *That* depends how wealthy your neighborhood is. The townships fund those. Hence, simplistically speaking, the social and cultural clashes..

[@helencheetham9939]

PE premium is supposedly paid for by the sugar tax. It is widely used in schools in England for sports and outdoor healthy activities such as food growing and forest schools. It would be a real loss to schools if lost!

[@andybrice2711]

My issue with the sugar tax is that many drinks are now quietly replacing sugar with stevia, which I think tastes horrible and seems to have unpleasant side-effects. And I can't be the only one.

[@DCMamvcivmEvony]

One of the problems of our time highlighted perfectly by alastair without even trying, "im watching out for diversity". Diversity for diversity sake when building a cabinet should be about competence over diversity.

[@Miks2092]

The universities should have built or bought enough accommodation to rent to the students. I gauls me that universities are literally a state funded cash cow for landlords. Thinking about this and housing benefit, the amount of our taxes that end up in the pockets of landlords is insane!

[@brettrobinson1948]

Very good point.

[@burtonschrader2]

I listened to this podcast and did not hear you mention Greed as a significant factor contributing to the problems faced by UK universities located south of the Scottish border. 🙏

[@mollyfilms]

Universities deserve to fail. They are a business and treat their students as fodder. They have ruined many cities with huge buildings for their cash cows called students. It wouldn’t be a bad thing if people woke up to that fact we need trades and vocational along with a proper old fashioned time served apprenticeship and not this boil in the bag 4 weeks and you’re fully trained crap. Not everyone should do a useless degree unless it’s for a science that you can actually use or engineering or medical. Madonna studies, media and many arts should never be taught at university degree level.

[@nickdraycott]

How does Scotland afford to have no tuition fees ???

[@clivemitchell3229]

By not having many places available to Scottish students.

[@AlexPReal]

HE was a sector particularly affected by Brexit as a significant chunk of their revenue came from EU students and EU research funds. Lifelong learning has been in place for 25 years

[@SarahStarmer]

Sugar is better for you than sweeteners. A sugar tax would do more harm than good. I do work in a sweet shop but part of the reason that I work in a sweet shop is because I love sweets. Sweets bring more happiness to children than anything else I can think of. Don't ruin sweets.

[@mmmhorsesteaks]

I don't think there's any evidence for that. Sugar, especially the way it's used now in nearly everything, really isn't good for you. As for sweets, we should adopt a "less is more" mentality - don't eliminate them, but take care to really, truly enjoy them when you do get them.

[@ThePrimaFacie]

The sound is way too low so if I want to have this play in the background my speakers blow when I play ANYTHING else. Please have the volume at a standard level compared to other talking vids on here. Thanks for the Vid

[@rupertbare2023]

As a Canadian who emigrated enthusiastically to Western Canada from the UK in 1967, it somehow saddens me to hear Alistair constantly banging on about Australia, with nary a mention of Canada as a 'young dynamic country'. I suppose we all have our favourites, but, Alistair, could you possibly offer an occasional good word about 'The True North Strong and Free' amidst your frequent encomia on Australia? 🇨🇦

[@ogukuo97]

No amount of money in the world is going to make NHS better. The rot is too set and too deep.

[@heliotropezzz333]

I always liked it when canvassers would debate on the doorstep and if I was a canvasser I would use the opportunity to raise awareness of the policies of the main parties and contrast them and factually correct any misconceptions. Most canvassers do not do that. It seems rare now. However I remember a Tory canvasser who said 'you're surely not going to vote for that scarecrow are you?' when Michael Foot was the Labour leader in an election in the 1980s. I would not advise that approach.

[@Miks2092]

of course its about money because the continual wage suppression in the UK along with the endless austerity related problems, has created a quite serious brain drain. we are losing doctors and other health workers. Another factor is that by emmigrating these skilled workers also escape the burden of their student loan debt. Which has essentially become an extra 9% tax on incomes, so not only do they get better weather better pay and conditions as well as better public services by emmigrating. Why on earth would they stay in this ever increasing dive of a country??

[@richarddobbin8908]

The question about universities is where does the £9250 go? If you do maths ..contact hours & class sizes plus quite modist lecturer pay you would think universities would be swimming in cash? And then to after graduation students are fleeced a second time by extortionate interest rates on their loans.

[@laurajibson8945]

Fat cat salaries for very senior management and swanky new buildings!

[@George6r4]

I did an engineering degree and by all accounts (this is anecdotal, I’ve not seen the actual figures) cost more than the 9k per year I paid. I’m assuming this was topped up by the drama students that also paid 9k but didn’t need any of the high end computers and software etc.

[@PaulWilson-hm2if]

The fees being charged have nothing to do with the education you receive. You are just paying their bills while they fob you off.

[@tonyguyot2271]

Has anyone considered funding need based portfolios - like health, with an automatic fee applied to all customer support numbers which are not answered by the 3 min mark... Or for that matter, any call put on hold for > 2mins? The hardware we have today would easily support this tweak to the telecomunications software. It could aggregate in 5 or 10 second increments. And people might get the service they need more promptly too...

[@Notmehimorthem]

Can you customs union and be outside schengen agreement

[@chrisalbertyn4004]

I wish I'd had a chance to vote for Rory. I hope he returns at somepoint

[@markconway2380]

Are the British universities for British students or foreign students?

[@craftbird1]

Rory I agree about DonnaTarrt book Goldfinch is wonderful.

[@neilmcbride8945]

We have a large rump of not very good universities which should return to polytechnics.

[@MargaretHillsdeZ]

Graduates no longer gain more...many are unemployed!

[@stefanschnabel2769]

17:55 Funny how you can see Rory thinking "Tripling wages that now are 37% of the budget would make them ...? No that can't be right. Let's just say 95%." Which is still too high a guess, though.

[@t5kcannon1]

Good discussion. Thanks.

[@dominicbritt]

Universities across the UK are entering a new cycle (previously uncommon) - its called mass redundancies...how can it be sensible to layoff professors across all disciplines ...pushing for midlife training is a great idea, but we're not managing to educate children and you adults anymore Rory.

[@WILLtTHOMPSON2906]

Confused on the slightly throw away comparison between Atlee and Starmer

[@scottmcginn2169]

Saying Atlee and Starmer in the same breath is a massive stretch. While both represent change when needed, I can't imagine Starmer being that decisive when it comes to the needed actions

[@JelMain]

In his The Hidden Habits of Genius, Yale's Head of it's new Genius School, Professor Craig Wright, criticises the education system as "Those who can, do, those who can't, teach." I was far ahead of my age group in learning and like most of the best, all but dropped out at undergraduate level. In my case, I focused on the spiritual side of excellence, with the consequences Rory saw. However, losing the best because the dreaming towers are short on reality has the consequence that our academics are no longer what they were. This was actually something warned against in the high days of late Mediaeval philosophy, such as that which created the Renaissance: keep your feet on the ground when your mind's in the air. That way you truly become a giant of the mind, rather than a sparrow flying off eagle's wings.

[@dreamcrusher112]

So many teachers choose to teach because they want to pass along their joy for the subject they teach. People often forget that at Univeristy a professor must teach AND do, as part of their contract. The best teachers are ones who are entirely absorbed in education, not those with some previous success in another field.

[@JelMain]

​@@dreamcrusher112 That's because if you're truly successful, your time becomes precious. Since retiring and discovering I probably am a genius (and not a MENSA-140, I'm declining from 163), I've been trying to discover why and how, but face an academic world where if you didn't continue onwards inside the dreaming towers, nobody's interested. It's a religious community, in other words, and like all such. ends up knowing more and more about less and less until all relevance disappears up its own exhaust pipe. The old joke, ex-spurt, a has-been drip under pressure, becomes true.

[@Elspm]

The evidence around sugar alone being a measure of health outcomes isn't necessarily brilliant. I think if we do a tax to fund the NHS based on diet we should be following good evidence so far as possible. I personally am deeply aware of the sugar tax, because I hate the flavour of sweeteners, and they mess with my ibs. So now I have to avoid most fizzy drinks because they all changed their ingredients to incorporate sweeteners rather than sugar. But the evidence that sweeteners are necessarily better for general health isn't great.

[@Celestialmechanics93]

Funded education in 30s/40s would be an absolute game changer

[@buzzukfiftythree]

Totally agree. I went to Uni in my 40s and had to saddle myself with a £16K debt (thankfully 50% of it was written off when I retired). I subsequently taught in secondary, FE and a little bit of HE. FE needs far more investment than it currently gets so far more older people can get meaningful training without having to get into debt.

[@jamesjarrett52]

Oh, please don' t tell me the universities are struggling!! My heart will break!

[@adminomhfoz1908]

The Chinese students figured out higher Ed in U.K. is below par

[@nyejackson]

Best PM we never had - Roy Jenkins

[@markstevens6568]

Brilliant; keep it going guys…….

[@magentamagenta1274]

The cost of university fees, high living costs and no prospect for students to earn a sufficient income as a result of their degree is not acceptable and disproportionate. University students sign up for life long debt. Governments need to change the system it’s wrong.

[@caspardavidfriedrich7916]

Excellent book reccomendations, read all of those recently. Demon Copperhead is a modern classic.

[@dean8282]

Universities got greedy, taking in international students who were not up to the level of the course but had a big bank balance. Would be interesting to see the international drop out rate and classifications. Also the universities often went for property portfolio and laid off support staff who deal with students face-to-face and get placements etc.

[@DavidBrown-ts2us]

12:01 I remember this expansion of the university policy, I thought and think it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard. University is in many cases a very long expensive way of demonstrating that you have a high IQ. I interviewed for a position with Shell which was basically an apprenticeship, but only open to graduates, the degree was just a proxy for people that can do maths.

[@laurajibson8945]

This is a huge problem! So many companies demand degrees for basic jobs, you get an upwards spiral of requirements.

[@DavidBrown-ts2us]

@laurajibson8945 and there's no incentive for them to stop, if there's a pool of people with maths centric degrees why wouldn't you make it a pre-requisite for the job.

[@DavidBrown-ts2us]

@laurajibson8945 it's a fallacy of composition. If I stand up at a stadium I might see the game better, but if we all stand up we don't all see the game better, and we're worse off because now we're all standing.

[@Crispman_777]

The sugar tax did nothing because it didn't address the issue. It only covered specific drinks, mostly in the fizzy variety. We know fizzy drinks are bad for us anyway. It needed to either be broader or wider. Broader meaning all food and drink are included (cakes, sweets, biscuits, yogurts etc), or targeted to the foods that are actually the culprits, namely savoury foods that are pumped up with sugar (food like pre-made sauces, bread and ready meals being the main offenders). The fact it also caused a big push to sweeteners was also bad as sweeteners' sweetness and lack of calories actually causes the body to crave more food, making them arguably worse for some people than just reducing the amount of sugar in a given food.

[@nicholasbethell2921]

Do the Conservatives understand that investment in education boosts productivity? You wouldn't think so.

[@beammeup8458]

Is the Tory party proof of the value of education. Many were Eton and Oxbridge educated .... WHAT A BUNCH OF CLOWNS ..

[@ranganramasamy6820]

How about alumni financial support of top UK universities? is it high vis a vis government support?

[@ianwoodall4523]

Politics on the Edge.

[@MrGavinBoyd]

Midlife education provided by the FE sector not just universities.

[@jonathangammond3019]

Are sugar taxes going to lead to people consuming more artificial sweeteners and is that better for people's health? Most sugar is added to food products to compensate for low quality ingredients.

[@michaelcullen1825]

Is the financial cost of reunifying Ireland too big an ask for the Irish taxpayer? A recent study by the Institute of International and European Affairs indicated that a united Ireland could cost 20 billion euros for 20 years.

[@kieranhudson4938]

Education, education, education. What a massive failure for generations in hindsight of course.

[@MikeParsonsOutdoorGearCoach]

Key point missed on university intake numbers. Asian students are coming to UK and USA universities to become fluent in English in addition their course. Euro universities have caught on to this and now run courses in English. NHS staff leaving for Australia…… learning to be a NHS practitioner is very much about practical learning from experienced staff. However NHS has a staff turnover of 20% which makes this very difficult.

[@lukeadams9781]

Neither willing to say it as it is (understandable on Campbell's part, because he was the architect of the policy): University expansion has been an utter disaster. The entire sector is bloated with pointless administrators, and far too many people at university shouldn't really be there. All it has done is lower the quality of the education, predictably.

[@Tuesday1]

What podcast was "best and worst PMs" please?

[@erongi233]

How are we going to update our politicians to have the skills they need in the 21st century? For too long we have had politics at the control of two parties who only get control as a reaction to the failure of the other party to deliver. What would open up the existing party system is proportional representation for it would break up the existing system. The largely Oxbridge based system has failed to deliver and proportional representation would open up the existing system to be far more representative to re-energise the UK.

[@christianbean4387]

At around 17 minutes, Rory claims tripling staff costs would lead to 95% cost of the NHS being on wages. This is really bad maths. He says we spend 35%, then by assuming all over costs stay the same (a potentially flawed working assumption), then you would see that if we double all staff wages, then approx 52% would go to wages. If we triple them then it would be approx 62%. Working: Current spending is 0.35 + 0.65 = 1 Double salary: 0.7 + 0.65 = 1.35, so 0.7/1.35 implies ~52% Triple salary: 1.05 + 0.65 = 1.70 so 1.05/1.70 implies ~62% Increasing by say 20% would mean 1.2*0.35 + 0.65 = 1.07, so implies 39% towards salaries - maybe we should be ok with that? Side note: to get to 95% we would need to increase staff wages by 35 times.

[@ianwoodall4523]

This time no mistakes

[@TheQuixoticRambler]

Apart from wages not keeping pace with inflation-at the same time as, separately, house prices going through the roof-middle income jobs have ALSO evaporated-in the last 50 years. These so-called "hollowed out" corporations have a few at the top and everyone else at the bottom. Apart from destroying society-this phenomenon directly attacks the rationale that everyone should get a degree. If the rationale for college attendance was upward mobility.

[@davidsteele8199]

Should Labour talk more about the wealth gap. 😅

[@wilsonfamily1762]

Steve Baker, my MP, is a nasty piece of work. Surprised to hear you say that Rory.

[@nicholaskelly1958]

I was at school with one of his cousins. They are most unimpressed by him and his antics!

[@shaneintheuk2026]

Tip for canvassing. Never put any part of your hand through a letter box. You don’t know what dog is waiting to bite you.

[@veeday1146]

Wish youd gone into what people pay in Australia for their healthcare. I was there 60 years ago and paid via my employer, the state education service, a monthly insurance tax. I was advised to opt for the middle band of care, because you could then recoup money by, if hospitalised, using the lowest hospital ward care plan rather than the private room that you’re level entitled you do. Prescriptions had to be paid for according to what had been prescribed, to be claimed back from your insurance and partly reclaimed in your annual tax claim. Filling in your annual tax claim was a big game of claiming back the maximum amount of healthcare expenses without raising investigation into the validity of your claims. Aged relatives still there, now talk of having to pay extra for treatment not part of their insurance plan. Tests and ops I have on the NHS they must pay for. I assume that there must be many Australians who cannot afford treatment even though they now receive free insurance. Australia’s mining and minerals has made it a rich country offering an ideal lifestyle, but it also means that their future climate wise is not good. Eventually all those leaving the NHS for sunnier riches will hit a big downside, just as happened to me, when returning home seemed the securest option.