Why UpState NY Can't Become Its Own State

[@spelticup]

Interesting video. Personally I do not think it would be a good idea for upstate New York to become its own state. Firstly, there are all the downsides you mention. But also, I disagree with you that Upstate NY would have been able to grow more if it separated from the rest of New York. Most regulations, especially environmental, are important to the character of upstate NY, and allowing deforestation or fracking would have negative consequences. A lot of the issues with upstate NY's current situation (DEPENDING ON REGION) is a result of deindustrialization, which likely cannot be undone without extreme protectionism or subsidizing industry. Upstaters are not completely taken out of the equation in state politics (Gov. Hochul is from Buffalo), and people in the NYC and LI area like to complain about the disproportionate funding Upstate seemingly gets. It's probably a cultural thing. State secession is a very fringe idea nowadays, and ultimately not helpful. It's very fantastical of an idea, and you're free to dream of it if you wish. It's interesting to discuss! But ultimately it might be better to look for solutions within the current reality, rather than constructing a new one.

[@krone5]

You lost this argument 100 years ago or so when they formed the current New York City, so the city really is tied in with parts such as Delaware County.

[@UPSTATERNick397]

Yeah, I agree. It's not realistic, but it's fun to talk about.

[@stoutyyyy]

Politically speaking it wouldn’t necessarily be conservative, Buffalo and Rochester have very strong Democratic organizations and there are a lot of blue college towns. Long Island is also very red and would no longer be a factor in an independent Upstate. That said, without NYC’s tax base a lot of the public universities would shut down or consolidate.

[@UPSTATERNick397]

yeah, without the city we definitely wouldn't have or need anywhere near as many universities and colleges. The massive SUNY system is only possible because of the city. But Cornell, Ithaca, RPI and UAlbany alone would have us punching above our weight in terms of education. And I think that without the city, Upstate would not be solid red, but it would certainly lean more conservative, much like an Arizona or Georgia.

[@stoutyyyy]

@@UPSTATERNick397UA and Buffalo are the only SUNY schools upstate that reliably break even financially, and a lot of the private colleges are closing as well. I’ve said elsewhere I think Michigan is the closest analogue politically. Also regarding the legislature, while there isn’t an upstate bloc as such, there is a significant upstate/downstate divide within the Democratic Party that is able to wield a decent amount of influence and is able to block lots of bills in committee. The current Assembly majority leader is from Buffalo as well so it’s not purely City-led.

[@street_ruffian]

As someone who went to school in western New York I can't say I'm fully knowledgeable to know what is best for the people of upstate but I definitely agree that being it's own state would not help. I think this would just lead to a much more right leaning version of the same corrupt system. That would be no help to anyone. I'm not sure if your solution would work but political change is needed in NY state.

[@UPSTATERNick397]

Thank you for commenting! I certainly agree with you that this is not a feasible idea at all and that upstate gain a lot from being in the State. I do disagree with you on regulations. While you certainly have a point that many regulations are necessary and genuinely needed, these tend to be the regulations you hear about the most on the news like fracking, what goes under the radar are the hundreds of unnecessary regulations that pass each year that. Most of which on there own may seem harmless, but eventually they add up and you end of with a regulatory system that is second to non in terms of the complexity and makes even doing basic things like forming an LLC difficult. NY state also has a nasty habit of banning items from being produced in the state that that are completely legal to own and purchases and can be legal ordered here from other state. As far as protectionism and trade goes, check out my upcoming video. I have a feeling you might disagree with it though lol

[@Mrrobi02468]

upstate would be West Virginia without the city. we need the city

[@stoutyyyy]

Not West Virginia, more Michigan. Lots of problems but more than half of the population upstate lives in four cities. It’s not nearly as rural as WV.

[@TuneYourOrgan]

Interesting video! I live In the city, but would love for yall to have more representation and less bureaucracy for us all!

[@UPSTATERNick397]

Great, thank you for commenting!

[@street_ruffian]

Yeah it's not like in reality the regular person in downstate is being well represented by the state government either. The people of the entire state would be better with massive reforms.

[@Ryanrobi]

I think NY would be about like PA or WI without the city politically because we still have close to 50/50 urban/rural in upstate. Upstate Business gets the same regulations and taxs largly bit with almost non of the network effects of being in the most important city in the world. But it could end up more like West Virginia than Texas, so it would be risky. Where i live in the north country it pretty much is as poor and backwards as west Virginia but that also means its very cheap cost of living wise and if you can have a profitable business or high salary your purchasing power is very high

[@UPSTATERNick397]

I agree, while I do love upstate NY, I think it’s just not practice for us to become our own state. there are other more practice approaches we could take to make sure our voices are heard. Thanks for commenting!

[@stoutyyyy]

Michigan would probably be the closest comparison, Buffalo and Rochester as the post-industrial urban centers with strong union-led Democratic organizations, with VERY red rural areas.

[@theswampthinker]

Something I’m not following - what is the actual percentage for the claim at 4:00? Being 10% more expensive because of preferred source doesn’t sound like a root cause, unless NYS road work is truly 10-20% more expensive.

[@Leo-wk7yw]

Bid rigging is a much worse issue for cost containment than spending with a MWBE.

[@UPSTATERNick397]

I think the problem I was trying to get at is that according to the Comptroller office, the State enters into about 18k contracts a year with private entities. Many major projects require multiple contracts when you consider all of the work that needs to be done and for the procurement of materials and technology. If the State needs to speed up to 10% more for each contract then it makes doing even basic tasks very expensive for the state.

[@UPSTATERNick397]

according to the Reason Foundation the average cost of maintaining a road is just over 50k per mile and in Massachusetts it is 32k and Vermont is 19.5k

[@MekarWB]

That number is super conservative and basically a guess. It's actually underselling the issue to the point of dishonesty. The real percentage for DEI upcharge is usually more than 50%. The state mandates require that these companies be hired over company with white men. There is not a real competition in the market because this creates an artificial oligopoly of only companies that meet the black/women/LGBT-owned requirements. They are able to wildly overcharge because their competition is not allowed to participate in the market due to their race/gender/orientation. This kind of corruption is happening around the country but the places where DEI mandates are strongest are getting it the worst. It's creating billions of dollars of waste in the State of New York on the taxpayer's dime.

[@kaos95]

I actually doubt that there would be 2 more conservative congress seats, the Capital Region (1 million) Syracuse (150k), Rochester (200k) and Buffalo (500k) all trend heavily democratic.

[@UPSTATERNick397]

yeah, I’m from the Capital Region myself. Albany is very blue but most of the surrounding suburbs in Albany and Schenectady county (many of which have large populations) are red. While it might be possible for democrats to win a senate sweat on occasion if we were a state, I think for the most part the State would be pretty solidly red most of the time.

[@GlassMouse-ez9of]

@@UPSTATERNick397 the state would be another swing state

[@MekarWB]

@@GlassMouse-ez9of If it were to break off now it would be a swing state immediately. For instance, Upstate voted for Trump in 2016 and Biden in 2020. Democrats outnumber Republicans both upstate and downstate, but Republicans are split almost evenly between the two. Democrats barely outnumber Republicans upstate but outnumber them by around 4 to 1 in the city. It would be unlikely for the state to stay Republican for long though as prices in the state would start to drop more in line with other red states. Like with Arizona, Texas, and Florida, large amount of Democrats from the city would move to the new red state to escape the consequences of Democratic policy and then continue voting Democrat.

[@stoutyyyy]

@@UPSTATERNick397without progressive influence from the City I could see Buffalo and Rochester dems forming an inoffensive centrist governing coalition that doesn’t motivate Republican turnout in opposition. It would be a swing state for the presidency but Democrats would probably hold onto most of the levers statewide. Easiest comparison would probably be Michigan politically.

[@Horsemanray]

I don't think you can turn a place where 54 people actually live into a state.

[@street_ruffian]

Actually there's 6 to 7 million people in upstate NY so if it was its own state it would be in the top 20 states by population. There are more people living in the Buffalo or the Rochester metro areas then in multiple states. Buffalo would be the 43rd largest state and Rochester would be the 45th. Even the Syracuse metro area has more people than Vermont or Wyoming.

[@Horsemanray]

@@street_ruffian Oh yeah do they have jokes up there or did I just introduce you to the concept?

[@street_ruffian]

@@Horsemanray I mean you're only joking that literally 54 people live there... You're actually serious in that very few people live there. Do they have jokes wherever you're from? Cus they're actually supposed to be funny

[@Horsemanray]

@@street_ruffian It's clear that your mom buying you a computer in the hope that it would help you socialize better has been a mistake for everyone involved.

[@street_ruffian]

@@Horsemanray I'm sorry that your pathetic attempt at "humor" was such an embarrassment you're this butt hurt about it. Some people, such as yourself, are just not cut out for comedy and it's just something you gotta accept.