Why URUSHI and not CELLULOID ⁉️

Nothing more nothing less - this is one view point of this question when it comes to acquiring a luxury writing instrument made of celluloid or having urushi lacquerware. What is your choice in between these two?
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[@pen_journal]

Love your content to pieces Emy!!! Love your knowledge sharing and your attention to details... And I can't say enough of that Tibaldi Imperio again!!!

[@pen.venture]

Thank you so much! That tibaldi I think its time to meet it in a proved video review :D its a stunning piece

[@pen_journal]

@@pen.venture Yes please do so Emy!!!

[@leodegas7731]

Thanks for teaching a newbie about pens. I just started collecting pens Dec 22' and my first pen is a jinhao x159. I try to buy from every pen maker. So now I have a vintage parker duo fold jr 100 years old, Lamy studio ect. All different types of pens. No $1000 Italian pens yet. I'm a homeless old man in San Diego. That's out of my price range for now. I need to save up.🤣 I've decided to learn how to repair pens and teach myself urushi for fun. I love art and i will start painting next month. Thanks for teaching me about painting on ebonite pens. I was just going to practice on jinhao or majohn celluloid pens, but now I will think on ebonite pens for the reasons you stated. I write with all 60 plus pens that I own. It's not just collecting pens, it's using them. I don't resell my pens that i buy because it's personal for me. They are my children, they have a soul. Especially my vintage pens. I think of the past owners and what they wrote with them. I will sell and give away the pens i make because, for me it is sharing the art that I make with others. It's sharing the love i put into the pen with others. So thanks for teaching me more about pens, and why others collect pens. This is my first video that I have seen of yours and I'm glad it was this one. Be blessed, Leo🙏

[@pen.venture]

Hey there Leo, you made my day :D thank you so much for your kind words and for the encouragement to proceed with my passion and with the process of sharing everything wit you all. Im happy to know you too follow this niche and the passion shows itself in you :D Thank you for your support and stay tuned - there are some very nice things coming on the PV KZbin channel

[@Peli715]

Really Enjoyed this video so much Emy! First of all awesome topic, very informative! Ambience The red lights in the background and your red chair, with the back lights dimmed and the music 👌🏼

[@pen.venture]

Thank you so much!! Looking forward addressing some more topics that can help people decide when it comes to choices

[@smart4141]

I knew you’ll fall in love with Urushi, Maki-e pens. Good move from Italian pens 🖊️ to Japanese 🇯🇵 fountain pens (though we still love all Italian made pens). Considering art work, aesthetics and writing ✍️ experience Namiki (Emperor and Yukari), Sailor’s King of Pen and Nakaya have an edge over the Italian. Once I pick up a KoP or a Namiki, I am unable to swap it for any other pen. Thanks for the detailed video. I’m sure it will help many who have been wanting to understand the urushi art and celluloid making procedure. Look forward to your next video Emy.

[@pen.venture]

sooner or later it was bound to happen :)) :D I really like urushi pens :D

[@timeisahumanconstruct9251]

the natural evolution of a pen collector

[@anarodriguez1787]

Super informative video. I always learn something new with your content!

[@pen.venture]

Glad it was helpful Ana! :D thank you

[@nrs6956]

Thank you for information.

[@pen.venture]

You are welcome :D

[@astromanager]

Interesting topic, Emy. I see it partially as a difference between paying for a rare material (although there is certainly specific craftmanship involved in celluloid as well) vs paying for artistry and craftmanship. My one celluloid pen is vintage - a much cheaper way to get in on the experience. :)

[@pen.venture]

Thank you my dear friend Scot :D it is just a point of view that Is just personal reflection :D anyway ... who doesnt like to nerd about fountain pens all day long :)) ?! right

[@andreperan2045]

Emy, Considering the sensitivity of Celluloid: could you share your perspective how best to look after Celluloid pens and give them a long life, considering all the DO‘s and DON‘Ts?

[@Peli715]

Yes, that would be great!

[@pen.venture]

Noted - thank you for the feedback :D

[@hectorrosario8447]

Extent video thanks!

[@pen.venture]

Glad you enjoyed it Hector ! :D

[@jonandresen1483]

Man, I ordered that Namiki Emperor Dragon in October of 2021! Still no joy.

[@pen.venture]

Im drooling all over this one :D although I have some more that I just got and I cant wait to show you some urushi craziness

[@Javi_C]

You can’t go wrong with any of these materials 😊

[@pen.venture]

veer good point Javi :D

[@jasons8259]

I have a 1939 Parker vacumatic in golden brown striped celluloid. Curious that it doesn't appear to have shrunk in any of it's sections or deteriorated in any way. I'm sure it didn't cure in ovens for a decade before being machined. How did Parker do it? I guess it is a mystery.

[@pen.venture]

there are multiple types of celluloid, and production era plus a lot more details that are hard to explain, no pen company used celluloid primarily, it only used celluloid leftover from the eyeware industry, some colors or batches where more cured some less... some none at all.. the most problematic colors and types where the acetate ones. As of the curing proces - it doesnt take decades, it just takes knowledge to cut it and cure it pre working it so it will shrink closer to the final object that is worked from it ;) that takes like 7-8 months or in some cases/types/colors - 12-15 months

[@robertosans5250]

Interesting video. I am not sure if celluloid nitrate is no longer made, but certainly some of the most beautiful versions like the Arco or the cracked ice are dwindling away. Urushi is quite a complicated process, but there ae so many urushi pens now that i wonder if is real urushi or something else going on.

[@pen.venture]

Well it is still made but a very diluted form of it both in the process of making and also being that it’s made in thinn 2 mm sheets and not thick slabs to be cut in rods and made into pens. In regards of urushi I do have mine from companies based In Japan or from reliable sources in contact with Japan manufacturers

[@SnakebitSTI]

Nitrocellulose (aka celluloid nitrate) is still mass produced for the arms industry; it's a common component in modern gun powders. Apparently celluloid plastics are still produced and used for some speciality purposes, but it has fallen out of favor due to being quite flammable and much more dangerous to produce than alternative plastics. I think celluloid ping pong balls were the last major use, with ABS balls replacing them in the 2010s.

[@PenFriends]

I thought celluloid was being made still? Just not in bars. The platinum 3776 century has a lime of celluloid pens.. albeit rolled. However, urushi has thousands of years of refined techniques and the breadth of styles available is almost endless! Also, I think people will always respect and admire hand made processes.

[@pen.venture]

well we must go deeper into the rabbit hole - celluloid acetate is still made but the celluloid nitrate (to the type of the omas celluloids and pretty much the ones from the golden era) ... that is no longer made.

[@JohnnyLabrosse]

@@pen.venture Pretty sure the "nitrate" is the real celluloid and the reason it's so flammable is that the cotton fibers are nitrated (basically flash cotton) before being introduced to campher. The celluloid acetate (well any acetate) is basically just regular plastic, or at least that's what I remember from an old thread on FPN. What I'd love to see more of are wood pens, I really can't find anything more sheening and beautiful that the wood on my guitar and would love to see more pens made this way.

[@MrCabimero]

Can you tell me the name and model of the first Maki- e that you showed? Thanks.

[@pen.venture]

If you refer to the plain red pen - that is the Namiki - Emperor Vermilion / if you refer to maki-e then its Sailor KoP Battle of Itsukushima

[@sshark97]

Emy, interesting topic and thanks for the great content. perhaps you can share the name of the companies that you think they made good celluloid pens. thanks

[@pen.venture]

Thank you so much :D In my personal opinion the only companies that I would deem to say that they know how to manufacture celluloid properly - Leonardo and Montegrappa also Visconti (but to the best of my knowledge - they are not having any celluloid left in their inventory)

[@sajjadhusain4146]

@@pen.ventureYou don’t think Stipula merits a mention in such a list, when it comes to making genuine, high quality celluloid pens today?

[@leroidethunes3913]

east asian lacquerware, if properly taken care of, would pretty much last forever as many surviving objects since the begginings of this practice show, i myself own several objects of at least 200 years of age in pretty good, some almost perfect condition but that said, Its durability depends on many factors, for example, It's notorious that many chinese and japanese export pieces for the european and american markets since the 16/17th and specially in the 19th century were made with lacquer mixed with hide glue or other such thickeners wich make It age quicker and overall diminish its quality, stability and durability, apart from this, less layers were used compared to the products for the local market, naturally this practices dimish the life expectancy of the product regardless of how well taken care of It is, with that out of the way, there's another point i'd like to touch, that is, while i think you did quite a good overview of lacquer types, i'd like to reccomend researching also the more obscure but impressive techniches such as Rankaku, Raden, Nashiji, Wakasa, the different types from Tsugaru, specially Kara nuri and so on, there is an incredible amount of lacquer styles and, although i'm not too interested in pens in particular so i wouldn't be able to tell you about specific makers, i have definetly seen these styles used to make pens. Lastly, i want to add to the 'keep out of the sunlight' advice that, if you live on a place with dry weather i'd also put a small glass of water where i store the lacquerware since it can be prone to cracking over time if not moisturized

[@pen.venture]

There is so much to know about each technique that its a bit too much to fit in one video - I really like urushi and what it means and what can add as a special factor on a fountain pen. As much as its knowns outside the pen industry, I would like to make it knowing inside out industry and for this - it takes content and lots of showcasing for each technique, for how to care for it and what it brings vs different materials. I think that the humidity aspect works just as cigars that need to be in relative controlled environment so they dont degrade if its too dry :D right?

[@leroidethunes3913]

@@pen.venture i understand and i agree, it's very complicated to explain a centuries old tradition with all its variants in just one video, your video serves as a good introduction into the world of lacquerware in the field of fountain pens in particular, i look forward to seeing you talk about more styles and techniches in the future! and about the glass of water thing, yes, it's because lacquerware needs a certain degree of moisture in the enviroment to not dry excessively, if It becomes too dry It might start cracking wich, of course, affects the stability of its structure and makes it brittle, on the other hand, when lacquer is stored in a somewhat humid space It will retain a degree of elasticity wich is what helps its preservation over time.

[@deepakarora8804]

Wonderful thoughts. Keep it going dear ❤

[@pen.venture]

Thanks a ton my friend :D

[@kanck7909]

I'm not sure about celluloid being above plastic. I would agree that it is better than plactic, if celluloid is visually or tactilely unique from plastic. But I'm more of a user of fountain pens, if you can replicate the same experience by making the plastic look, smell and feel the same, to me it's the same.

[@pen.venture]

well ... I disagree with what you said. Celluloid is above plastic, it is a natural substance, created using a process that is no longer practiced, the colors are made individually then combined in single materials with unique colors, marbling and depth of color. It is unique visually unique from plastic, no matter what you do with plastic it cant be made to look like a celluloid ...

[@SnakebitSTI]

Celluloid is a plastic, and it’s hardly natural. It's made by nitrating cellulose than adding camphor as a plasticizer. Urishiol and shellac are naturally occurring.

[@michaelcohen1575]

I don't understand why urushi is not used to make pocket pens, like the Pilot Preira.

[@SnakebitSTI]

I'm pretty sure there are Vanishing Points with urushi.

[@pen.venture]

Hmmmm I never heard someone asking for such a pen/finish but it can be done for sure :D

[@Ausf.D.A.K.]

Why use celluloid if it has so many downsides?

[@pen.venture]

You answered In the question itself - because of its downsides, because is rare, no longer made, because it has colors in layers that join each other in a gradient efect, because its something reminiscent of the past, because one cannot buy time and things that used to be made a certain way back in time

[@Ausf.D.A.K.]

@@pen.venture To each their own I guess. I prefer other materials like stainless steel, urushi, even plastic is fine for me.

[@sylvelinebourion9014]

Hi Emy, I reordered a Leonardo Momento Zero Pietra Marina... believe it or not, one of my student stole the first one I ordered to you three weeks ago. Today I was teaching (I'm a music teacher at University of Montreal), and after the class I discovered that my pen, that I bring with me, has disapeared... I was so upset. How can some people be so harsh ? Anyway, I re-ordered one... just to let you know I'm not crazy and reordering the same pen for nothing ! I wish you a great day ! Sylveline

[@pen.venture]

Hey there Sylveline - im really sorry to hear this :( and I just hope these things just simply dont happen to any of us. It is traveling on your way and I hope it will be a wonderful writer to delight you