WHY WAS HENRY VIII NAMED DEFENDER OF THE FAITH? Tudor history documentary | History Calling

WHY are British monarchs called DEFENDER OF THE FAITH? Who first received this title and when and why did they get it? Well as you’ve probably guessed from the title of this video, most of the answer lies with Henry VIII as it was he who was first granted this moniker in 1521 by the then Pope Leo X. This grant was then confirmed in 1523 by Pope Clement VII. The title was in recognition of the fact that Henry had recently written a book, Assertio Septem Sacramentorum, in which he lambasted the teachings of Martin Luther and defended the Catholic faith, an ironic stance to take given how his future relations with Rome would play out and his pivotal role in the English Reformation. The Papacy ultimately revoked the title and excommunicated Henry, but his own Parliament reinstated it in 1543 and made it hereditary, something never intended by Pope Leo, who envisioned it as a personal title to be held by Henry only and which would die with him. This Act of Parliament is the reason that Henry’s successors have continued to hold the title to this day and why the letters F.D., short for Fidei Defensor (or Fidei Defensatrix for women) appear on British coinage, for this is the Latin phrase meaning Defender of the Faith. In this English history documentary from History Calling, I look at the history of the title, why Henry wanted it, the rumours that he didn’t even write the Assertio Septem Sacramentorum and how and why the title has survived into modern times, despite the fact that his daughter, Mary I, returned England to the Papacy (briefly) and arguably should have dropped the title.
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[@HistoryCalling]

Do you think the monarch should continue using the title, Defender of the Faith? Let me know below. You can also find me on Patreon at www.patreon.com/historycalling and on my Amazon storefront at www.amazon.com/shop/historycalling

[@Metadasius]

Sure, considering that Henry created the anglican church, the monarch of the UK could be the "defender of the faith" in regards to the anglican sect of christuanity. The monarch of the UK is the head of the anglican church, i think.

[@AnimalisMD]

Absolutely. Although Henry originally campaigned for the title via his letter, the fact that it eventually was upheld by Parliament is significant. I'm glad that the suggestion to change it wasn't. Sometimes, tradition and culture need to win out over the whims of "modern audiences."

[@ld9044]

I really don't think it matters. The original meaning of the title is just as lost as the original faith.

[@katherinecooper6159]

I think it is up to whoever is the monarch. I agree with L.D. that the "original meaning of the title is just as lost as the original faith."

[@raphaelemartinat1352]

I think Charles III should have kept the idea of "Defender of Faith" for it implies that he is willing to protect any subjet's religion and right to exercice their religion even though "The Faith" means "the Anglican Faith of England"...

[@MsMartinMuses]

“But that’s Henry for you”. Lol. That sums it all up perfectly!

[@HistoryCalling]

Yup, it was indeed typical Henry. He was a real 'give me what I want or I'll take it' kind of guy.

[@giggle_snort]

​@@HistoryCalling Perfectly summed up.

[@Metadasius]

I honestly think that henry acted in his own intrests and only used his faith when it suited him

[@jeffthomas2364]

Yes of course he did. Everything pretty much remained Catholic after The Reformation apart from Mass was heard in English and not Latin.

[@michellerenner6880]

And the Crown is still suffering from his selfishness.

[@jonnylumberjack6223]

@@michellerenner6880 Eh? You're going to have to explain that one. In what possible sense are the current bunch "suffering from his selfishness"?

[@sugarplum5824]

That has been the universally held theory since Henry broke with Catholicism. False faith has also been used by past American presidents to fool those gullible enough to believe his claims of adherence to Christian principles.

[@lilymarinovic1644]

​​@@jonnylumberjack6223well, for one the idea that as heads of the CofE they (or at least the female royals) needed to be above reproach. Without the pressure to marry a young inexperienced girl, Charles would have just been.allowed to marry Camilla in the first place and the circus that was his marriage to Diana would have been avoided. Off the top of my head, the royals who have married or wanted to marry Catholics, or for that matter divorced people, would not have had that barrier and much misery could have been avoided.

[@agatha6999]

Have to love how any of Henry's actions can just be explained as "Henry being Henry"

[@Austin8thGenTexan]

Throw in a head injury from jousting for good measure. He was definitely imbalanced.

[@fabulouschild2005]

So true, as a student of history at college, Henry's actions are often explained as him being himself 😂

[@agatha6999]

@@fabulouschild2005 Historian: This king did some really strange, questionable and impulsive decisions Students: Why? Historian: He was Henry VIII Students: Say no more

[@fabulouschild2005]

@@agatha6999 literally this

[@untamedblossoms]

Bless his heart

[@onemercilessming1342]

I love that Henry VIII, raised as a scholar until his elder brother died, wrote a treatise which Sir Thomas More gave to the pope. Then, when Henry wanted to be rid of Catherine of Aragon as wife, and More couldn't conscion it, Henry claimed More wrote the document and affixed Henry's name to it.

[@csh43166]

I'm pretty sure the only thing that Henry was ever really interested in "defending" was Henry... Another great video - very informative!! Thank you!

[@stevenleslie8557]

He was only loyal to his Catholic faith until it got in the way of what he wanted.

[@savagedarksider2147]

Henry believed no one should tell him what to do since he was King.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, he was certainly flexible in his approach to Catholicism, though that's not to say he didn't believe in it. He just had this weird knack of being able to convince himself that whatever he wanted to be true actually was.

[@Du-Masses]

Henry is a perfect example of why you do not give people absolute authority. Thank you for your channel; I’ve seen a whole lot of renaissance documentaries, but I always learn new specifics from yours, and I get absorbed in the level of detail.❤ (Henry reminds me of Trump because they both love/d titles, gold, women, and have no shame.)

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Funnily enough I remember seeing a documentary which compared those two men. Neither are people I would want to be compared to myself.

[@Elle-jl5ud]

This is why I love your videos. I've known about the great irony in Henry being named defender of the (Catholic) faith, but I learned so much more of the nuance involved from this video. You always teach me something new!

[@SurferJoe1]

I hereby entitle History Calling Defender of the Athenaeum. Her heirs may inherit the title according to her wishes.

[@jldisme]

I feel exactly the same!

[@HistoryCalling]

Aww, thank you all. The Athenaeum reference takes me back to an ancient history class I did at university ...

[@AngusMacKinnon-xm5ko]

She (HISTORY CALLING) is always brilliant and what I love about her videos is that she is OBJECTIVE, and factual to a TEE!

[@ChrisAnn...]

Personally, I think he was a fraud of the faith, but GOD is handling Henry VIII now. Great video!!

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I do wonder if he was worried in his final weeks/days/hours about what was going to happen to his soul.

[@kerryrwalton7791]

Thank you for clarifying why King Charles can be called Defender of the Faith despite not being married in the Faith but only legally by the state. It is because the title is automatically inherited by all British monarchs.

[@AnimalisMD]

This is by far the best discussion I've ever heard regarding the origins of the Defender of the Faith moniker used by the British Monarchy. Thank you!❤

[@woodenbeast9337]

Fridays are so much better with your episodes.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you :-) I was away over the weekend, which is why I'm getting to comments so late, but that's a lovely one to read :-)

[@woodenbeast9337]

@@HistoryCalling Great channel you have thanks

[@kate_cooper]

I like the fact you opened with a new 50p coin with Charles on it. I’ve been looking out for those in the change when I’m working on a till, but so far I’ve only seen one. Honestly, I think whether or not a monarch uses the title or, possibly, uses a different variant of it, should be up to the monarch. If Charles would rather be “defender of faith” I don’t see why he shouldn’t be.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks. That's the only new 50p I've seen so far actually. I'm keeping it as a souvenir. He might need an act of Parliament to change the title, as it was granted by Parliament, but if he wanted to tweak it I wouldn't mind either.

[@Lucius1958]

Ah: I was wondering whether the new coinage was in circulation yet...

[@kate_cooper]

@@Lucius1958 Only 50ps so far but there’ll be more eventually.

[@donaldgoodinson7550]

I think it would have been more apt to have a Tampax on the coin.

[@gandalfolorin-kl3pj]

As usual, an excellent exposition of the history of Henry's sometime title. I learned this story years ago as part of my upbringing when I learned Church history. It is refreshing to hear it now given by one of the eminent scholars who makes use of KZbin. Keep up the good work. God bless.

[@HistoryCalling]

Aww, thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. It's not something I learned myself at school or church actually, but I found it an interesting little rabbit hole to go down.

[@kiernan415]

You have (yet again) found an interesting way to cover a topic that has already been dissected endless times over the centuries. It's like your super power and why this is one of my favorite YT channels by far. Thanks for all you do!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you so much Kiernan :-)

[@annmoore6678]

Another terrific presentation! Thank you once again. And what a big issue is raised here! As a US citizen and the child of people of different faiths, I cringe at the thought that ANY head of state should hold a title referencing any role whatsoever in the spiritual life of citizens. As a teen, and at the time a devout Catholic, I already opposed adding "under God" to the American Pledge of Allegiance in 1954, and I have never once uttered those two words in the seven decades that followed. Defender of Faith is no better than Defender of THE Faith as far as I'm concerned. "Defender of Religious Freedom," if one must reference religion at all, but nothing more than that. Why? Because too many lives have been lost over differences of religious belief. Responsible guardians of a nation should be guardians of religious freedom if they really want to be defenders of peace within that land.

[@jonnylumberjack6223]

Preach!!! So glad to see someone else who feels as I do!

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I think you're correct that true religious freedom is the best approach, as long as it's enforced and no one is allowed to start persecuting anyone else. Given where I'm from in Northern Ireland, I've seen what a lack of tolerance can do and it leads nowhere good.

[@jonnylumberjack6223]

@@HistoryCalling I'm in favour of no persecution of anyone, for any reason, outside of the laws of the land. How others live their lives should be of no concern to anyone. And laws should be confined to harmful criminal activity, not thought control!

[@donaldgoodinson7550]

A very apt rely coming from an American,99% of whom know nothing out side of the US.

[@delia88209]

Hello from windy Central Texas. Oh Henry was doing this all for himself. Great video.

[@HistoryCalling]

Hi Delia. I'm just relieved you're not in windy Mississippi. I've been watching what happened with that tornado on the news. It's terrible.

[@annmoore6678]

It just occurred to me that Latin doesn't have definite articles. Therefore, no matter how Charles chooses to translate it, it still comes out Fidei Defensor in Latin. Another good reason to scrap it.

[@steffaniabercrombierealtor3343]

I think it’s clear that current monarch of England are allowed to use that title. It may not be the original faith that the title originally addressed. But it sounds like it’s still valid. I was wondering if you would be able to do a video on Henry the eighth and his accomplishments during his reign. I’ve always been curious what he accomplish for his kingdom in between his battle, with Rome, and marrying, divorcing, and killing so many wives in the pursuit of a son. The stories always focus so much on his personal life that I know very little about anything he did for his country during his reign.

[@edithengel2284]

That is a very good idea. Were there lasting accomplishments outside the initiation of the English Protestant reformation?

[@simon112]

As always good old Henry was full of his own self inportance, my own view it shouldn't be used anymore but that's just my opinion, Thank you as always HC. 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I do wonder if the title will be let go of in the future, but I doubt Charles III will drop it. I think it would have been announced already.

[@GottaBeThere2736]

❤ Love your style and the wee bit of tongue-in-cheek your sense of humor gives these VERY WELL RESEARCHED videos.

[@jamesmackey2120]

Hi HC, you’ve done it again. Covered an unusual topic and made it so interesting to learn in more detail. It was great to find out how the title originated and then how it changed through the following years. Interesting how Mary I kept the title but obviously not the responsibility. I think that the current monarchs’ should keep the title, though I think the original intentions are lost. Thanks again for your efforts bringing this excellent video to us. 👍🏻

[@HistoryCalling]

Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, I can't see them letting go of the title anytime soon.

[@amymahers2957]

That was a very interesting video. Thank you again for your hard work and study.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Amy :-)

[@joannabaparileszczynska]

Henry’s ego has really shaped history.

[@HistoryCalling]

It really has, which is quite alarming!

[@kaycosette]

You really can’t be defender of the faith if you get excommunicated 😂

[@HistoryCalling]

Ah, but which faith was he defending after that point? That's the tricky question.

[@SeGG8791]

I know King Charles III isn't exactly popular in the UK, but I think he deserves a little credit for his awareness of the UKs multiculturalism and his attempts at inclusivity- so I'm wondering where the pushback at changing the "Defender of the Faith" title came from. I can't remember where I learned that he was an Anthropology major either, but I think it shows that he always maintained an awareness of people and how cultures differ. (At least, that's how it outwardly appears on this side of the pond, lol.)

[@ileanaacacostaacosta1813]

Charles had made a mockery of this title Defender of Faith was granted to the an English Catholic king but after they became Protestants they continue to use it but still they were Christians ButAs I said this title applies only for the Christian faith only but not to non Christians it make my blood boil that selfish lustful wimpy old coot Charles how dare he to use such a title for heathens and enemies of the Christian faith ? Shame for him

[@Endorill]

Very well done. Loved this.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you very much :-)

[@beastieber5028]

Good evening to history calling from Bea

[@HistoryCalling]

Hi Bea. Hope you enjoyed the video.

[@edithengel2284]

Thank you. This was very clear and thoughtful. I had never known the history of the title after Henry broke with the Catholic Church. Very illuminating. (Although probably it is about time to jettison the thing.)

[@timmyroy133]

I love your videos 😃😃 great the hear a fellow northern ireland history lover!!! Could you do a video on Why Edward VI didnt just give Elizabeth the thrown instead of lady Jane Grey

[@edithengel2284]

Elizabeth was illegitimate, not Protestant enough, and, possibly worst, a woman. Edward's (not very clever) original plan was to have the throne go to Lady Jane's heirs male. When he realized he wouldn't live long enough for Jane to bear children, he changed his device to have her succeed directly. She, if female, was at least Protestant enough and legitimate.

[@AV-fo5de]

King James IV of Scotland was created Defender of the Faith before Henry Tudor (1507). Harry eventually was given his in 1521. He was Henry Tudor's brother in law, and Henry was very jealous of the Honour, and badgered the Popes to have the same title as James. James was pious and faithful, unlike Henry, remained true to his faith.

[@edithengel2284]

And then Henry killed him.

[@AV-fo5de]

@@edithengel2284 Exactly. It seems that "Royal " Henrys are all rabidly jealous! Especially red headed ones with problems!

[@prof.cecilycogsworth3204]

Thanks!

[@stephencarrillo5905]

👏👏 I so enjoyed this entry, HC. This is my third viewing. As a lapsed Catholic and secular Buddhist/atheist, the impact of religion in the Tudor age always provides food for thought. It's still a polarizing subject with many to this day, of course. I believe my favorite poet T.S. Eliot was a devout Anglican. Well done! Be well.

[@chrisbanks6659]

Thank God for Atheism Stephen!!!😅

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Stephen. Yes, the religious acrobatics that England's Tudor monarchs put it through are something else indeed.

[@angieautio-mowrer4193]

I would love a video on Margaret Beaufort. I've learned so much from you, thank you!

[@davidlancaster8152]

A very interesting post for Shabbat. I knew Henry coopted the title I just didn't know how it got passed on. I think the title is more appropriate now for defending Protestant interests but seems divisive as to the whole UK population which is part Catholic. I'm neither so no one is defending my faith, lol... except the Lord. I love what you do. Please be well. Shabbat Shalom

[@philip2595]

Thank you for another interesting presentation HC

[@fabulouschild2005]

Every video you do on the Tudors helps me revise for my exams in May-June. Thank you History Calling! ❤❤ I honestly like the idea of King Charles III being Defender of Faith. It's more inclusive

[@ashleystroebel1018]

I found this exceptionally interesting. Thank you HC for compiling this

[@katjack2780]

I've always thought that you need a sense of humor in order to have a sense of irony. This explains why Henry was totally oblivious to the situation. Rather like many modern-day politicians...

[@annmoore6678]

To be totally American in response: "And how!!!!"

[@keithmorocks]

You had me forever when you quoted "The Incredibles"

[@mackss9468]

Fantastic video, per usual! It’s crazy how much Henry the 8th’s reign impacted the course of history!

[@brigitte7113]

People always say that Henry fell in love with Anne. What is the evidence he was in love with her specifically versus he just thought this was a good way to get an heir?

[@edithengel2284]

He appears from his behavior and his letters to her to have been intoxicated with her. I'm sure he thought a male heir would naturally follow from this.

[@shelbythe2ds526]

Great video! Have you ever considered doing a podcast?! You would be so good!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. It's funny you should say that because KZbin have just created a new Podcast tab and I'm flirting with the idea of trying it out at some point. I've never podcasted anywhere else because there's no ad revenue anywhere else, so there was no money in it for me, but if I can still have ads here on KZbin and the podcasts make decent money, maybe I'll use that feature sometimes.

[@chrisbanks6659]

Hmm. Martin Luther has something to do with this. Can't exactly recall but the Pope gave H8 a pat on the back. Watching later, and, as always, thanks ever so for your diligence and hard word work that goes into putting these out with regularity. We are blessed - LOL. (Remeber clocks forward this w/end 😄)

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, Martin Luther does indeed make an appearance :-)

[@michellebruce5092]

Hi, how are you? I'm doing well. Awesome live history video I enjoyed it. Your history videos are always enjoyable and relaxing see you next video greetings from Canada 😊

[@patriciaramsey5294]

Great video as always

[@nassauguy48]

I wonder what Henry was thinking when he wrote this. Catherine of Aragon had miscarried her last child three years earlier in 1518 and was likely barren at that point. Was Henry writing this to get on the good side of the Pope so that he could ask for an annulment of his marriage? (At the time, neither Mary or Anne Boleyn were yet in his life). Was he hoping that the Pope would legitimize his out of wedlock son, Henry Fitzroy?

[@becca7327]

While explaining this to my SO, he couldn't help but laugh at Henry VIII. The fact that he still claimed an accolade from a religion he denounced is ridiculous.

[@zoomin9397]

Another well researched video, do you think you could link your sources in the description in future videos? Would love to read more about this from good sources.

[@HistoryCalling]

Hi, thank you so much. I do link some of them quite often. I'm afraid I can't do all of them (I'd literally run out of room in the description box), but I quite often have the core ones.

[@ns-wz1mx]

wow the amount of fragile ego in this video!!! those kings were too coddled 😇 excellent video!!🙌🏻

[@HistoryCalling]

I know. Molly coddling grown ups for decades definitely doesn't lead to well balanced individuals. We have a few examples of that in the modern era too, though I'll name no names.

[@ns-wz1mx]

@@HistoryCalling Hahaha i can almost read your mind! 😉 🤣

[@bumblephee96]

Maybe Mary I didn’t mind using the title because she spent her entire life defending Catholicism, refusing to convert for her father or brother.

[@HistoryCalling]

That's an excellent point. No Tudor monarch deserved it more than her I suppose, as long as we're thinking only of Catholicism.

[@margolane8529]

He could have given himself any hereditary religious title he wanted, this was a narcissistic ego move for him. But then again, pretty much all of his actions were 😅

[@lilymarinovic1644]

He didn't give himself the title really ... but it says a.lot about Hank that he kept it even after breaking with Rome.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, he did have a very high opinion of himself, that's for sure.

[@heatherordonez1490]

Another excellent entry, thank you.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Heather :-)

[@deadiemeyers1661]

I like your content so much. Thank you! 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

You're very welcome :-)

[@VelvetChexalena]

Another excellent video, thank you❤

[@HistoryCalling]

Glad you enjoyed it :-)

[@LKMNOP]

Excellent video. Well researched. I always thought (therefore, only my opinion, not a fact), that instead of saying the Church of England in Henry's time, mind you only Henry's time, should be called the Catholic Church of England. Because Henry considered himself a Catholic He just wanted to be the head of the Catholics in England instead of the Pope being the head of the Catholics in England as you so rightly stated. After all, there was a sort of precedence for this because there had been a struggle for power in France where eventually the French King was the one who appointed Cardinals and bishops in France instead of the Pope. Henry just took it a little further, shall we say. Because it really wasn't the Church of England until his son took over. And even than I wonder if it's more the ruling council rather than Edward VI that brought about a lot of the changes.

[@aliceingoryland]

Henry was always an undercover Catholic after he "broke" from the church.

[@b.r.9171]

You're absolutely right, he was a devoted catholic. He needed the property, gold and silver from the monastery/churches to keep his lifestyle up.

[@petermcdermott3996]

Henry was an unbridled psychopath, next subject.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, he was never a Protestant in the way that Edward or Elizabeth were.

[@lfgifu296]

Defender of the Faith in the free libido

[@beth7935]

...But only for Henry. DEFINITELY not his wives.

[@HistoryCalling]

Exactly. He never let his religion get in the way of cheating on or killing his wives.

[@clare5one]

Following Henry's decision to break with Rome in 1530 and establish himself as head of the Church of England, the title was revoked by Pope Paul III and he was excommunicated.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, but then he had Parliament reissue it in England.

[@raydavison4288]

Henry was a pretty good king early in his reign, but he turned into a monster later on. I wonder what drove him to tyranny and madness? Was he corrupted by power? Was it the result of multiple head injuries? Was it syphilis? 🤔

[@aloknarain723]

An excellent but little known topic which you've covered in this video I thank you very much. You seem to have thoroughly researched and rumbled through the archives of 16th century English history to present to us this fine video. But I wonder if you yourself have come to a definitive conclusion as to what exactly was Henry's actual intention of having himself being addressed as Defender of the Faith . I personally think that he himself was in a fix as to what he himself actually believed in -- whether he was a Catholic at heart or a Lutheran ( Protestant ) But I suppose he didn't like Luther. And that he believed only in himself just like a selfish person does.

[@K8E666]

Off topic - I’m glad we’re moving away from the now debunked theory that Henry VIII suffered an injury to the frontal lobe of his brain after falling from his horse, and this changed his behaviour so completely that he became an angry, embittered and hostile old man. We now know from actual witness testimony that he wasn’t unconscious for hours or at all for that matter. He had a fall but got right back up and was completely fine, a bit bruised on his Royal arse and legs but no head injury. So we can no longer blame this injury for him murdering his wives and becoming a more brutal and ruthless leader. He was ALWAYS this person - petty, ruthless, dangerous and incredibly selfish. He changed the rules when it SUITED HIM, he didn’t give a f*** about ‘his’ people and hated the Catholic Church because the Pope held all the power - power Henry wanted and believed he was due. He believed he was ordained by God - as does our current monarchy (at least definitely in the case of Elizabeth II, she said so during her coronation). Henry wanted ALL OF THE POWER and the privileges that it bought him. He needed a male heir because without one it was felt publicly and politically that he was less of a man, rather than just the end of his Royal lineage being at stake. He did anything and everything to get one no matter the cost to his people, his supposed friends or his wives. He was an awful man and I’m glad history and science have put the idea that it wasn’t necessarily his fault,due to his head injury, to bed once and for all….

[@ld9044]

Another great video. Henry was a piece of work.

[@ruthbosveld449]

I really enjoyed this.

[@maryann4827]

Henry, like many monarchs of his time, truly believed that God personally placed him on his throne and therefore anything he did was “God’s Will”

[@nathanfisher1826]

Very good! Thanks

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Nathan. :-)

[@CrossroadsDemon]

Great video! The title should definitely still be used.

[@rickynieves3144]

I never understood why Henry dissolved the monasteries for one payout instead of simply keeping the money outputs for the crown, therefore providing an additional steady and perpetual income for the crown. These institutions provided so many services to their communities that it was crazy to dissolve them.

[@rawrice3096]

Bloody hell, Henry did ramble on huh?

[@cindyschneider4728]

Henry said the quiet part out loud, Faith in practice gives Kings and Popes the right to impose on anyone else rules of conduct they themselves cannot live by. Somehow their "blasphemy" they were so quick to punish always managed to either enrich or justify their own debauchery.

[@verak66]

Fascinating. Were the popes aware of Henry's adultery?

[@alecblunden8615]

"Never meant to be" a hereditary title? Like perhaps the Papal title? Face it, Henry did not abandon Rome, Rome abandoned him. He would have got his annulment without a second thought if he had not been married to the kin of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain whose troops occupied Rome and had sacked it. The pope was simply not brave enough to follow the conventions.

[@tomsarp2900]

Henry the VIII was a monster serial killer.

[@lfgifu296]

Now for the question muahaha: what do you think of Henry II? Both as a monarch and person (I’ll give my opinions in him after u :)

[@HistoryCalling]

I don't know very much about him (yet), but I might look at him in more detail in the future.

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

I've just looked up the statutes from Mary's time. Bizarrely, the sessional headings of the Acts of Parliament passed during the rest of Mary's reign are an example of the continued use of Henry's adopted style despite its supposed repeal. For example, the next session after the repeal still had a Latin heading that translates to "Philip and Mary, by the Grace of God King and Queen of England, France, Naples, Jerusalem, and Ireland, Defenders of the Faith, [...]". By the time of Mary's final parliamentary session Philip had become King of Spain, and the Latin heading was updated to reflect their new titles; and yet "Defenders of the Faith" ("Fidei Defensorum") remained unchanged. These sessional headings have no legal significance as such, but the official publication of Acts of Parliament always used an English translation of the heading on the title page!

[@nassauguy48]

To this day, British monarchs use this as one of their many titles. I believe it was not until the 19th century that they stopped using King (or Queen) of France.

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

The French title was quietly dropped with effect from 1 January 1801 when the Union of the previously separate kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland came into effect. The Acts of Union had authorised a royal proclamation to be issued, changing the royal style and titles, the royal arms, etc to reflect the new constitutional situation. The fleur-de-lys were dropped from the royal arms at the same time. It seems very likely that the opportunity presented by the Union was taken to remove the anachronistic claim to the French throne for diplomatic reasons, although I don't believe there's firm evidence explaining the thinking behind the decision. For what it's worth, peace with the French Republic was agreed in October 1801.

[@rickynieves3144]

Since the reigning monarch is still required to be Anglican, I can see why 'Defender of the Faith' is still used, but I think that Charles' idea of changing it to 'Defender of Faith' is a lovely and inclusive idea. I think he behaved abominally towards Diana, so I have a hard time with him, but I have to say that I really love this idea of his.❤

[@SurferJoe1]

I'd be more interested in Jesus' or Peter's comments on all this than my own. On a scale of one to ten, how well was that faith defended? Within this story is a marvelous satire, not of religion, but of what we do with it.

[@savagedarksider2147]

Hello HC, do you think it's funny how The church of England wouldn't allow king Edward to marry but yet, that's was the entire reason why it was formed.

[@HistoryCalling]

You know what, I'd never thought of that before but you're absolutely right. It came into being to end one royal marriage and then was used to prevent others (not just Edward's - there was also George's IV's marriage to Mrs Fitzherbert for instance). Excellent point!

[@sonnbonn]

I've always wondered why they've kept it

[@patmcphillips2530]

I once read a book about the history of bathing. Since everyone smelled, no one smelled.

[@savagedarksider2147]

You will laugh(...) A couple of years ago, I held A wedding ceremony for two of my cats.

[@stephencarrillo5905]

😆 Family is family. I'd do the same for my schnauzers.

[@LKMNOP]

As to your last statement about Henry changing his mind a lot, I think Henry did everything based on power. And you have hinted at this in the video. If I remember rightly, Henry's father never paid attention to him or taught him how to rule as everything was centered on Arthur. And I wonder if Henry didn't resent being subjugated so much and relegated to staying with the women of the family. Of course, it might be his personality that does not like being under anyone.

[@itsjustme7487]

Becoming defender of faith was his get out of marriage free card. This is only my opinion.

[@HistoryCalling]

Hmm, I dunno about that. He got the title in 1521, twelve years before the annulment from Catherine of Aragon and actually lost it as a result of that fiasco, only having it reissued by Parliament years later. He never needed it in order to get any of his annulments. I think he just liked the sound of it, courtesy of his rather large ego.

[@emilybarclay8831]

Henry’s morals and values lasted exactly as long as it took them to no longer be convenient

[@donnicholas7552]

Interesting!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you :-)

[@rickynieves3144]

😂 I love 'The Incredibles' quote!

[@savagedarksider2147]

I was watching this video on what if Britain became fascist. Yesterday, I was watching this podcast on the marriage between Mary I and Philip II of Spain- I pretty much agreed with everything they said but one thing. Any children from their marriage would be Habsburgs-Not Tudors. What do you think ?

[@beth7935]

Yeah, they'd be Habsburgs cos they'd take their father's surname, or the equivalent, like a dynasty/house name. Obviously they're 50/50 Habsburg/Tudor by blood, but they used patrilineal (male-line) surnames. I dunno how anyone could say they would've been Tudors, that's bonkers!

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

It might have something to do with the marriage treaty? I'm not familiar with all the details, but the English negotiators were very keen to avoid a Habsburg takeover, and I think the English and Habsburg lands were to remain separate even if the couple had children.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I would tend to agree that they would have been Hapsburgs unless (as Andrew says below) there was some sort of treaty to ensure that they were called Tudor). That would be very unusual though. Queen Victoria's children were of the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha for instance, not the House of Hanover like their mother. Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh was very put out that he couldn't give his surname to his children, but that was a very 20th century development. Under previous circumstances the house of Windsor would have ended with Elizabeth II and we'd now be into the House of Mountbatten or perhaps Mountbatten-Windsor.

[@helenvick522]

If you could use only one word to describe Henry, excluding “King”, what would it be? Thanks.

[@sarahwatts7152]

'Defender of the faith' is to the UK as flag underpants are to the USA: silly, but they keep on happening... (Just my opinion, people, it's cool if you think differently)

[@TheWhore2culture]

A really interesting topic & very relevant today. Henry created & used it to justify his dispicable actions across the board. It's had It's ups & downs ever since. Qyeen Elizabeth the 2nd led by example,her faith being integral to her position. Charles Windsor has never shown any morals & used his position to change church law,to suite himself. Its a joke that he & his ex-mistress now hold positions that neither has shown any justification for having,their behavior beneath contempt,treating the position,the church and the people of England in contempt, having lived a hedonistic life,with zero ethics. Its a joke that he hold a position now,that he's done nothing,but,used it to justify his behaviour & personal needs & wants.

[@jacquelynbrown3137]

I actually think Henry was a devout Catholic but like so many he chose to ignore the rules that were inconvenient to him we have plenty of modern examples of that but I suspected it plagued his conscious wondering if he might someday end up in the bad place I think he therefore convinced himself that he had God's backing to do as he would

[@Theturtleowl]

'Henry being Henry' makes so much sense once you read it as 'Henry being a selfish manchild'.

[@GottaBeThere2736]

Thanks!

[@HistoryCalling]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your very kind donation to the channel. I hope you enjoyed hearing the history of the Defender of the Faith title.

[@micromario]

Thanks!

[@HistoryCalling]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your very generous donation to the channel Charles. :-)

[@jackmason5278]

The Anglican Church is essentially Catholicism without the pope. It has bishops of the apostolic succession, seven sacraments, and veneration of saints. Henry's son tried to move the country to Protestantism. Mary tried to bring back the pope. But Elizabeth I restored Henry's vision of a Catholic church without a pope. And it has been so ever since.

[@SomeoneBeginingWithI]

My experiance living in England and attending a Catholic church for part of my life and Anglican churches for the rest is that they are quite different. The Catholic church (at least the one I attended, maybe they're not all like this) had a timeline of what age they wanted all children to have their first communion and then get confirmed. The Anglican church was much more flexible about allowing people to wait until they felt ready. The Anglican Church allows female priests and female bishops, and allows priests to be married. The Anglican Church also allows divorced people to re-marry. There may be other differences, those are the main ones I am aware of.

[@aimeefriedman822]

In this portrait, there's surely no denying Henry Fitzroy was his son!

[@nickh.4917]

I’d like to say a word in defense of Henry. Yes he traded off wives by divorce and execution and was religiously hypocritical. But he also thought that he needed to produce a male heir and was desperate. He had daughters but he needed a son. The only previous female British Monarch was Queen Matilda who was not accepted in her own time (the 1100s) and fought a civil war to win the crown. His own father’s claim to the crown was both new and questionable and came after 20,000 people died in a civil war. Henry had to think that if he died without a son, that England could be pushed back into civil war. So to save that fate, he executed two wives and divorced two. He was wrong of course, but he couldn’t have known that. Sacrificing 4 of his 6 wives and being a hypocrite to save his kingdom from a civil war could be thought of as noble.

[@od1452]

MMM... I've wondered ( but not deeply) What were Henry's arguments defending indulgences.. ( I can't help thinking Thomas Moore helped him) .. one of the things I know Luther thought was wrong. He also thought the Bible was the only religious authority .. not Popes....as I understand.. ( I am no expert here ) so i have expected a pile of lawyer's arguments from Henry on why the Pope ( as the leader of the Catholic Religion) was right in selling them . I think its an argument of Good deeds ( and money) make up for mistakes of the past .... I've never read this..... so I don't know if Henry had any real input on the theological discussion in defence of the faith... but I'm kinda curious what his arguments were.

[@prof.cecilycogsworth3204]

Thanks!