Why Was One Of Porsche's Best Cars A Flop? Porsche 928 S4

Porsche designed a brilliant car, then watched as everyone bought their old, outdated 911 instead.. The 928 was supposed to take Porsche into the future, it handled, it was luxurious and comfortable but it totally failed to sell in the numbers needed by Porsche. IS there a hidden reason that this car failed as a commercial project for Porsche?
This Amazing Porsche Was Killed By Its Flawed Older Brother - Why? Porsche 928 S4
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[@Number27]

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[@leuvenlife]

please try this Jack... Nur-burg-ring. It drives me mad when people say Nurenbergring. On a side note, When I was a child a neighbour had a silver Porsche 928s with the number plate THE 928S, this was in 1978 and I think he worked for Porsche GB. That car was a space ship compared to the other 1970's cars in our street. Great review, thank you.

[@oldpartsnewstarts9502]

Hi Jaq, thanks so much for all your efforts. I have an interesting car you might enjoy doing a review on it’s a 1981 Lancia and zagato special original paint and under 18,000 miles. I love your channel you middle-age guy.! James

[@alittlebitgone]

@@leuvenlife Yup, hearing people say Nurembergring is such a trial! ;)

[@bernhardtsuballa5341]

The reason why the 928 was not a complete success lies in the buyer group. It was probably the best GT that was built at the time. But the buyers are usually businessmen who had to take care of their reputation. A customer accepts a BMW 7 series or a Mercedes S class, but not a Porsche! The 911 is not a GT and not so good for long distances. It is more a toy which the businessman hides in the garage from his employees and customers. But a 928 is made for the big drive. So what to do with the car? Driving to the customer is not possible. Too unsporty for weekend fun. The only thing left is a vacation. Ultimately, the unpleasant reputation of Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini and so on remains locked up. Who would want to do business with a playboy or someone with an inferiority complex?

[@backupintheday9710]

They used this old game to promote it.. I think it was in some Miami Vice episodes too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/epfdY6Slm9KNrpI "Let's Go Mr Driver!"

[@pooroldnostradamus]

The chicken was still warm and my dad was still alive...

[@terminal-velocity111]

Well said m8!

[@superseven7947]

I've always remembered what JC said about the 928 and what I means to him.

[@cafe405]

So many people remember this line, very poignant and perfectly illustrates how cars can mean so much more to us than just tools.

[@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel]

@@superseven7947 John Curulewski?

[@davidspropaganda]

@@TheMICMusicInspirationChannel Jeremy Clarkson I think. His mother phoned to say his dad didn’t have long and he grabbed the chicken and the 928 keys and drove home maybe to Yorkshire

[@roberttrench465]

One of the most beautiful cars ever designed. One of my dream cars to have.

[@tomlanigan4308]

As an ex-928 owner of 11 years, who has become tired of 928 reviews for their lazy, hackneyed "911 replacement failure" retoric, I was so pleased to hear something balanced, fresh, and meaningful. Of course, I should have known better. The Number 27 channel has evolved into a genuinely interesting and thoughtful place to hear about great cars from the 70s/80s and beyond. Oh, and I sure do miss that starter sound before the V8 fires into life. Thanks again, Jack.

[@acmeopinionfactory8018]

Now if he could figure out how to pronounce the name of the car...

[@idesignyou...9257]

Indeed the starter defo has a unique sound! lol

[@lindas1st]

agreed, the car was on sale for over 15 years, how is that a failure? ..stoppit with all the "Flop" narrative, it's just wrong.

[@EinKerl3554]

I've always felt the lack of acceptance of the 928 says more about Porsche buyers than the car.

[@luannroberts7167]

@@lindas1styeah a least it was better than a crappy 911 better than all of the old 911

[@SkysaxonDragonslayer]

A friend of mine owned an S4 which I was allowed to drive quite often and he described the 928 this way: The speed of a Ferrari - the comfort of a Bentley and the reliability of a Mercedes Diesel. I think he nailed the character of the 928

[@autobahnproven]

A good comparison but faster than most contemporary Ferraris.

[@chesswizard31]

​​@@autobahnproven The main thing to understand here is that the Italian performance marques back then were often quoting overly generous horsepower numbers as well as weight stats. A supposedly 350+ bhp V12 was doing near the same 0-60 times as a much lower powered and not too much lighter 911, for example. It's no secret they embellished the truth a fair bit, particularly in the 1960s and 1970s. The old Ferraris and Lamborghinis are almost always going to be slower and heavier than the factory had you believe at the time. But they are still awesome.

[@autobahnproven]

@@chesswizard31 Agreed on the Italian cars. Absolutely beautiful machines but maybe not quite as capable as many will have you believe. Sold one of my 928S4s to a Lamborghini owner. We first met at an autobahn gas station on an unlimited speed stretch. I drove first to show him what my car was capable of. He just about soiled himself with how quickly we reached 290km/h!

[@marguskiis7711]

no way. 928 has pretty horrible reliability.

[@SkysaxonDragonslayer]

@@marguskiis7711 - only when you don’t maintain it probably! Seen 928 with over 300.000km - show me one Ferrari with that mileage

[@BertramSFegg]

As a 928 S4 owner, I think that was a very fair and balanced review. It was a much more complex history than just replacing the 911. Everytime someones tells that story, God kills an IMS bearing. It was also because Porsche corporately needed to have a GT to sit alongside the 911. It needed to broaden it's model base to compete with Mercedes, Jaguar and Aston. They are superbly reliable but they punish a neglectful owner. Remember, it is a digital car from an analogue age. How many 80's supercars can you do a tip run in?

[@PhilbyFavourites]

Dr B, you have hit the nail on the head in so many ways in your above narrative. A pleasure to read especially considering a friend has just had the IMS bearing replaced on his 2003 911. Here’s my consideration for the Tip Run, certainly an essential of daily (perhaps weekly, but it doesn’t flow as well…) life for me. AMG GLA45. Blisteringly fast, cavernous for the tip or the boat. Same power as the entry level ‘23 Porsche 911. And for me almost totally under the radar. I remember the 928 godly, in my mind it was stylish and different. Very aspirational in its day.

[@brettfcars]

It’s not just me then. I have a S4 91 Many a time have I put the rear seats down, thrown in a blanket and done a tip run ! Also you can transport the chassis of a early austin seven in the back, axles on top of the chassis and engine next to it. And still able close the tailgate 😊 And still see off most cars on a motorway. Auto great for todays roads and with kick down, including wheel, spin see’s of most other cars !

[@M123OCT]

It may be difficult to imagine now, but I clearly recall seeing a 928 for the first time in 1981. And seriously, it looked like it had arrived from another planet, such was its visual impact and presence. A few years later and I drove one - I loved it.

[@ericrawson2909]

Same for me, same year. Cycling uphill from the Teme valley in Worcestershire on a windy B road I was overtaken by one. Fantastic sound and love at first sight.

[@cruiser6260]

For me late 70s as a kid, and yes there was nothing else with a big rubber body coloured bumper and lettering embossed in it. Very smoothed off for the time and they said this was what Ferdinand Porsche had always wanted to build.

[@superseven7947]

I always remember what Jeremy Clarkson said about the 928 getting him from London to the Midlands to see his father in hospital before he passed away and that a 928 would always have a special place is his heart because of that.

[@avmimages7071]

Didn't realize it was a 928, for some reason I thought it was a 944 Turbo?

[@michaeld2519]

I remember that well too, and that he said it was a distance of about 170 miles and it took him an hour to get there. I've owned two 928's, an S and S4, and they were the best all round sports cars I've ever owned!

[@michaeld2519]

@@avmimages7071 No, it was definitely a 928, I remember that comment by Clarkson very well too. In the same segment, he said his head always does a 'Linda Blair' (Exorcist) turn when he hears a 928 'grumbling' past.

[@idesignyou...9257]

Totally remember that episode, it was quite emotional!

[@stevenjoy3537]

It was Sheffield

[@fishbert17]

I’ve always liked how the 928 looks, and I think it has aged very well

[@anteeko]

You are right I think is actually quite a beautiful car too.

[@LuigiVbattista]

I think looks better than 911

[@tedolphbundler724]

It's futuristic, but not beautiful. It looks heavy, especially from the side. It would have been interesting to see what the Italians could have done with that platform.

[@farginicehole513]

And I think the early (pre S4) body is much nicer looking.

[@freerkderuiter8822]

As much as I like 911's, the 928 has a special place in my heart. I was lucky enough to have met Tony Lapine on a number of occasions. He had a dark blue 928 at the time which was replaced by one in Riviera Blue. To my eyes the 928 is one of the most beautiful cars ever built, with road manners to match.

[@Landshark928]

Wow dat moet echt geweldig zijn geweest om Antole te ontmoeten. Ben jaloers 😋

[@freerkderuiter8822]

Dat was het zeker. Een heel vriendelijke en toegankelijke man, maar wel iemand die goed wist wat hij wilde. Het was half jaren negentig dat ik hem een aantal keren heb ontmoet, dus al weer lang geleden. Anatole is inmiddels al weer geruime tijd niet meer onder ons, maar we kunnen dankbaar zijn voor wat hij heeft achtergelaten.

[@promerops]

The first time I saw a 928 was in the car park of the "Cuddle Puddle" spa in Swaziland (now Eswatini). It was finished in pearlescent creamy white and I thought it was the most beautiful car I had ever seen.

[@IdoZatTimeInaVan]

🥰

[@TheNoisyNinja72]

The 928, especially the S4, was one of my favourite cars as a young kid. Such a beautifully designed car, and still looks good today.

[@markplain2555]

My uncle had one. He commented that it felt nothing like a "super car" - it felt BETTER. This was a relaxing car to drive on a daily basis. It was everything comfortable, quite and yet ferociously powerful when it needed to be. For me in the 1980s this was a mind blowing design. Today I see why - they simply incorporated the bumper into the design which was space age concept at the time.

[@MacsMachines]

My GT has done 250k too and still flies…GT variant had hotter cams, harder suspension and a 959 based electronic diff, it’s a proper drivers car I absolutely love mine (nice video Jack).

[@chesswizard31]

Rare variant that GT, hold onto that one!

[@ScottOmatic]

I own an 5-speed S4 but that's mostly irrelevant to my following comment: You really hit the nail on the head with what it meant to be a GT car 40 years ago and comparing that description to now. Back then a GT was something different and mostly separate from a sportscar. If a car company built a grand tourer, it was expected to have a smooth ride, have a quiet cabin, be comfortable, have appointed amenities, and while still having high performance but with some of it's sporting ability expected to be sacrificed in order to meet those GT requirements. Now days, most GT cars are often called sportscars with the terminology between the two often overlapping. Where if you went by the old standards, only a few modern cars like the Mazda Miata MX-5 Alfa 4C, Lotus Elise, and some other smaller and less practical vehicles really still fit that original sportscar category, yet hardly anyone talks about the "sportscar" nearly becoming extinct in the modern age. Indeed, the modern 911 has become more of a Grand Tourer than the 928 ever was, and comparably, the 928 is more of a sportscar than what most modern "sportscars" are. Cheers.

[@wolffgramm]

I owned a 928 S and still feel sad that I sold it. What a machine. It felt like being in a plane with the cockpit and mid tunnle lay out. The ever prescence engine murble. I loved it and feel previliged I once owned it and have nothing but good memories about it !

[@bicyclist2]

For me the 928 has always been my dream car since the early 80's. It was love at first sight. I still get excited every time I see one. I still hope to own one some day. Great review. Thank you.

[@m7dgz]

I grew up when the 928 was brand new, so to me it always represented peak Porsche, and the 911 looked like some old anachronism. They also did a brilliant job of matching the styling across the 924/944/968 with the 928 so it looked like a well thought out family of cars. I think a point you missed about relative success of these cars was the price point - they were a *lot* more expensive than the 911 I seem to recall, and at the end of production, the GTS models were seriously expensive.

[@rogerwatt3154]

I was a professional car photographer in the '70s and '80s, went on the press launch of the original 928 and was lucky enough to have a 928S for a weekend to photograph when it was launched . . . its reg., incidentally, was THE 928S. Despite being the owner of a 911 Carrera 3.0 at the time, I truly loved the 928 and I seem to recall that Jackie Stewart was quoted as saying that it was the best car in the world. I nearly bought 928s on a couple of occasions but was always put off by their relative complexity, running costs and size compared to the 911 . . . so I stayed with 911s until the kids came along. Good video on a great car!

[@keepyourbilsteins]

Thanks for sharing. The secondary market here in the States really demolished the 928's reputation. Indy Porsche mechanics didn't want to service them, the dealer network was prohibitively expensive, so many of the cars ended up in the hands of those willing, but sadly incapable of servicing them correctly. I work at a garage that services and repairs them and many are suffering from acute cases of PMS (previous mechanic syndrome). When allocated an adequate budget and resources to bring them back to spec, they are superlative.

[@chesswizard31]

This is something important and not brought attention to anywhere near enough. The US cars have suffered greatly over the years. They were strangled by emissions control equipment and adorned with ugly side markers. When values plummeted who in their right mind wanted a slow, butchered and expensive to own old car? Nowadays more and more of these are being restored and enjoyed for what they are, catalytic converters or not, which is great. But if you can bag one, you want a RoW spec car with the proper 300+ bhp and the true dual unobstructed exhaust system. A different animal entirely.

[@giorgio5689]

in the 80's there was the 928 Porsche, the "Testarossa" Ferrari and the "Countach 5000 quattrovalvole" Lamborghini...each of these 3 cars is an engineering masterpiece

[@IdoZatTimeInaVan]

In 2001, at service stations here in Oz, people often asked me if this was Porsche's latest design. 😊😊😊

[@MrMarkOlson]

The original 928 is one of the top 10 most beautiful cars of all time.

[@9g8hestro]

Yes the original before they altered those taillights.. it looks fantastic!

[@chriscornelius2518]

The original tail lights were recessed right, as opposed these which are smoothe​@@9g8hestro

[@fairmont___d]

A small point. The comparison photo of the S4 and the S side by side, actually showed the S4 and the original 928. The S had a front and (smaller than the S4's) rear spoiler and the side protection strips as well as the (obviously unseen) bigger 4.7 engine (up from 4.5). Great video though. Cheers.

[@rogerwatt3154]

Saved me the trouble of making the same point.

[@mrsdcottam]

I had the 928 GTS back in the 90's. It's the car I regret selling more than any other. It was fast, smooth and refined inside. I'd love to find another if I can find one at a sensible price.

[@richardsellers8671]

Good luck with that, I was after a GTS some years ago and gave up after never finding a good one, definitely the one to go for IMO.

[@Number27]

Good luck with that... hope you get back into one at some point!!

[@michaeld2519]

@@richardsellers8671 I'm surprised you say you couldn't find a 'good one'. Most of the later model 928's, especially the GTS models are in very good condition from the advertisements I've seen. They are available on occasion, but very expensive.

[@richardprice7763]

Closest I ever got to a 928 was a radio controlled one when I was 8 in 1982! They still look lovely...

[@Lemma01]

Sales of 60,000 plus isn't so much of a failure, Jack. This was a very pricy piece of kit, and designed (as I remember it) to compete with Bentley as much as anyone else. The 944 and 944T were the real 911 replacement, I always thought. Ultimately, I reckon true Porsche drivers aren't really interested in other marques, so they stuck with what they liked - the 911.

[@andrewnorris5415]

As Jack said though, it was designed to replace the 911. They put a LOT of development work into it, massive marketing budget. They nearly went bankrupt in the 90s and a key part of that was that they expected the 928 to sell a lot more than it did.

[@carlosoruna7174]

944t was a different beast. Not a replacement of the 911. Problem was the customers kept buying 911s and not 928 or 944.

[@detonator2112]

Sales of 60.000+ and production run from 1978 to 1994. Hardly a failure. The same way they call Jaguar XJS a "failure" although it sold sh*tloads and was in production for 20 years. Well I guess anything replacing the E-Type was going to be a failure.

[@richardcook4111]

Low end torgue VS high rpm horsepower. I've driven both and bought the 928.

[@Lemma01]

@richardcook4111 Quite understandable - screaming revs have limited appeal after a while. Enjoy!

[@AaronRandolphChen]

Wow, Paul's 928 S4 has done over 240,000 miles? Now that is testament indeed to Porsche engineering & build quality. The 928 S4 has always and will always be one of my favorite Porsches! Great video, Mate! Thank you & thanks to Paul for lending it to you!

[@paulgreen6796]

He didn't say when the engine rebuild was done , so a bit of triggers broom going on here lol

[@skip741x3]

My 1994 probe gt also has around 240k mi on it..never rebuilt ,all stock runs decent...my gf's car is a 2003 ford focus zetec with 350 k mi and runs and drives like a car with 50k mi on it..

[@BuzzLOLOL]

When he said 240K miles, I instantly wondered how much money had gone into maintaining it that far...

[@scottdelong1]

I remember a 928 (it must've been the S4) commercial of the late 80s that impressed me deeply. It begins with a shot of the cockpit, slightly aft of the driver's perspective. The view through the windshield appears to be a featureless salt lake similar to Bonneville in Utah. A driver enters the car, attaches his seatbelts, and starts the ignition. The car sounds understated but powerful. If I remember correctly, he turns on the radio. He floors it. The sound increases but you can still hear the radio. The tach and speedometer, along with the pitch of the engine, all increase rapidly. But what is most impressive is the lack of drama. The car hits 176 MPH and you can still hear the radio. The driver backs off, eases the car to a stop, and turns off the radio. Impressive!

[@rogerpritchard]

It was a wonderful design. I owned a manual 1979 model for ten years. DPJ 922T Brilliant for driving across Europe 🌍.

[@TechnicNick]

Wow. Small world. I owned and loved the same car for several years up to about a decade ago. In that pale blue (Minerva was it if I remember correctly ?) it looked magnificent and I've never owned a car that handled better. Thank you for taking such good care of it. The condition was fantastic for a 30 year old car.

[@rustyturner431]

Another note: The thing that Porsche underestimated was the stubborn nature of 911 enthusiasts. I had a friend who managed a Porsche agency when the 928 was current, and he bemoaned the fact that they NEVER got a 911 in part exchange on a new 928. 911 owners were not interested in the least...and they were the base of Porsche's business. Mind you, 924 and 944 owners were very keen to trade-up, just not enough of them.

[@Tacko14]

I drove a mkI once, a manual. The whole garage walked out to see me try to drive off and fail. Merryment ensued of course. But what a car. I was ever so proud of parallel parking it without a scratch. My calves still hurt on cold days, but I did it! The bills that came with just maintenance were equally impressive.

[@imaweerascal]

Have a massive soft spot for this car. The '80s movie Risky Business might have had some part in that though 😂 I just love the styling so much, it still looks modern, and so well balanced. And the noise! Would buy one in a heartbeat

[@farginicehole513]

Now is the time! Get looking. . . Bring A Trailer online auctions is a good place.

[@TheCatLady65]

My dad had one of these! What a lovely car to drive. He wouldn't let my mom or my sister drive his Porsche, but for some reason he was okay with me taking it for a spin :)

[@lakefield2112]

Thank you Jack for another great video featuring an iconic car. I love this channel. Those of us "of a certain age" who were teenagers in the '80s tend to love these cars. A 928 GTS with a manual transmission is still one of my holy grail cars.

[@michaeld2519]

True, from Risky Business to Scarface. All the 928 GTS models were manual, btw.

[@lakefield2112]

@@michaeld2519 Hi Michael. You could get a 4-speed automatic transmission in a 928 GTS. The manual transmission is quite rare (esp for 1995) and very expensive now.

[@michaeld2519]

​@@lakefield2112 Hello 'Ontario Joe'. My apologies. I was sure I read that the GTS was only manufactured in manual transmission. I have a few books on the 928 and double-checked and I see that the auto was an option. Apparently from 1990 the S4 was only available in automatic. I owned a 1983 S manual (white/maroon interior) and a 1987 S4 manual (silver blue/midnight blue interior), which were quite rare with their manual transmissions. I added teardrop mirrors to the S4 which looked really good. Both cars were fantastic vehicles in every way, with exceptionally good build quality and excellent road handling. I disagree that the manual transmission is rare for either the GT or GTS, however. Checking up, most of them were manufactured in manual. I suspect that for the Canadian market, as in the U.S, many more automatics were shipped over, so certainly manuals would be rare there. It's not so much the case in the U.K, Australia, South Africa, etc, markets where manual transmissions in general were far more common in the '80s and early '90s, hence there are a fair number of manual 928's. Both the GT and GTS are very expensive as you say, but certainly worth every penny!

[@MrFlyingguy]

loved a 928, well ahead of their time - and you are right; the 911 is now probably larger than a 928 ever was

[@3.2Carrera]

I think in the US market, we just had so many V-8 RWD drive cars then that were many times cheaper to buy and maintain. These cars were a fraction of the 928 and ALL over the place. You had to get past the very popular F bodies in the 2nd and 3rd generation. Then the C3 Corvette that somehow still sold well at the end of it's run. Later came the C4 Corvette, while much maligned today, was a great performer when released. Then the 5.0 Liter Mustangs and GM intermediate cars got HP increases into the 80's leaving the top end of the market where the 928 lived almost devoid of customers. I agree that the 911 was just so unique and became an icon while the 928 was developed leaving it as "the chosen one".

[@Number27]

Very good points Vic, thanks for watching!

[@fairmont___d]

Another point is that the US 928's were significantly down on power compared to the Euro spec models (rest of the world) which made it hard for them to compete with the domestic big engined cars.

[@Treviscoe]

"I think in the US market, we just had so many V-8 RWD drive cars then that were many times cheaper to buy and maintain." Good point.

[@RexKarrs]

During the 928 era, the US dollar was undervalued against the Deutschmark as well, which made them even more expensive in the US as well.

[@KarelBeelaertsvanBlokland]

Excellent review. That's why I love my 928S. It's different and allows very fast driving safely due to its width, and weight. The intelligent rear axle allows for some rear-end co-turning 'avant-la-lettre' due to the Weissach rear axle, an axle with self-angle-adjusting characteristics. It once saved my life when I turned into a 120-degree turn and would have crashed normally, driving over 110kmph. I could only think of the V8 and floored the gas!. The rear-end set deeper and impeccable road-holding turning the car safely through the corner victorious...... Also, it offers luggage space and I have moved many things in it!

[@berwhaletheavenger]

I had a 928S 30 odd years ago. It was a very good car but it's just that Porsche expected too much from it. It was never going to be a 100,000 seller. The XJS sold twice as many but they were a lot cheaper, ditto the 6 Series. The 928 was surprisingly harsh noisy compared to the Jag as well.

[@paulgoyette8222]

The two cars I absolutely regret getting rid of, my 1995 993 C2S and my 1986 928… loved both of them with a passion..I would definitely get another but the cost of these verse the Porsche passion far out weighs the the cost..I used to drive home from Atlanta to Florida and the 928 got all the looks, made all the great sounds…just my 2cts.

[@sononatoamestre]

Always loved the 928, the style it has is still brilliant now but back in the 80ies... that was a blast

[@Landshark928]

As being an 100% 928 geek I would always choose a 928 over a 911. A 911 is a beautiful car but the 928 looks so scifi futuristc.😍😍😍

[@andybroer651]

A good friend had a 928S4 and asked me to drive it with him (He knew I would not be afraid to un-cork it) - happy to oblige we took it for a fun run. The car is everything you described: powerful, great handling, great brakes and accurate steering, plus comfortable! We were able to get one nice high speed sweeper in with little traffic around and touched 145 mph briefly. It had more to give, but I was gaining on upcoming traffic quickly so backed off. He was pleased as he'd never gone that fast before. I came away quite impressed. I see values have started to climb, which I think is good because it was always a good to great car and it deserves it. Thanks Jack for the video!

[@stephenhunt6673]

One of my dream cars from my teenage years. I should have got one before they started climbing in value again a couple of years back.

[@Ricketik65]

The 928 is one of my absolute dream cars but sadly I never owned one. It does however have something in common with my first car, a Citroën Dyane. That too was outlived by the car it was meant to replace, the 2CV. Remarkable 😁.

[@thatcheapguy525]

I absolutely adored the 928 when it came out and could never understand why some of the older ones sold for the same price as a 4 year old Austin Montego back in the day. the 928 was everything you'd want in a supercar packaged in a great looking body

[@idesignyou...9257]

What a gorgeous Porsche Jack! My bro had an 89 S4 in Guards Red exactly the same wheels as this one and the best feature in my opinion that beats the 911 is the gorgeous sound and power of the 5 litre V8! He always wanted one after watching the 80's film Risky Business with Tom Cruise!

[@andrewnichols1023]

My father was a porsche salesman, I loved it when he brought a 928 home, I always thought it to be much more of a car than the 911, maybe because I was used to him in 911s and a 928 was a nice change. It’s a fantastic gt car with its v8, much smoother than an air cooled 911. Yes it was not as popular as the 911, but that makes it a hidden gem, I think they are fantastic cars.

[@repetitivemotion]

I had an 84 928S. What a wonderful car. Wish I still had it. It had perfect balance

[@stelianghile822]

Hi Jack ! Few days ago I just come back from work and I observed one 928 in front of my vehicle in great condition here in Miami. Was kind of red/burgundy and has blue color plate historical/Antique vehicle of Florida plate. About ten years ago I remember some of 928 in Miami junkyards in pretty decent contidion.

[@dantheman7357]

Hello Jack, you brought back so many memories for me with your brilliant and accurate description of what its like to drive a 928. The first one I drove in the 1980's was an early original 928 manual. I could not believe how I loved the handling and the feel of the engine, trans, and suspension. They all worked in harmony and made the car a pure joy on the road. I drove another 928 manual and then a later model with the Automatic trans. I was surprised again at how good the car was with the Auto. I would prefer to own the manual car but I could also be perfectly happy with an Automatic equipped 928S4. I have never forgotten how Porsche made the car so enjoyable. Thanks for the memories.

[@markcollins457]

Love the 928 and your comments on the 928 are spot on. I also think the car started with an identity crisis and the low sales numbers could also be contributed to marketing and the dealerships themselves. This car would have benefited from some sort of active suspension. And superior noise reduction. Now that I think about it what a great restomod idea thank you.

[@Covkiller]

Brilliant balanced video. I really enjoyed it. I've just bought a 944 Turbo 1986 and replaced the dampers with Bilstein B6's. Keep the videos coming.

[@lets_measure_it]

i was once a passenger in a 928 on a greasy road like in the video and to this day it is the only car where i could feel the car just breaking and regaining traction in a subtle way. from the driver's seat the feedback must be awesome

[@looveruk]

Another great vid Jack, but having owned a 928 and an air cooled 911s of the era. Porsche at the time were worried about be left behind in technology. So the transaxle cars were the test beds, the 911 at the time couldn't implement, ABS, power steering or even a hydraulic clutch. Although the 928 wasn't loved (and I didn't love my S2, but respected it). I was a vision of the future.

[@GermanWhip-3900]

My boss had one of these in the 90's, that's when I discovered torque and grunt

[@johnandrews3568]

I always loved the 928. When I was in university, a girl in one of my classes had one her father bought her as a (gasp) high school graduation present. It was metallic purple with white leather interior (including white leather on the full dash, which apparently required special gov't import approval)... while it looked cool AF, sadly it had a slush box. Made quite a statement though.

[@andyl4565]

I knew little about the 928 before, but it sounds like a joy to drive. Thanks for a great video.

[@domtoni4567]

Giac, from my friend and ex work colleague George in the US. He has a 1985 German 928. Thank you Domenic, the video is good and your friend is well informed, his driving comments are good too. I knew all that information, as I was collecting everything available, so I am well informed about 928S, mine is 1985. Because the car was not valued that much, the price of a used one (9 years) was attractive to me, it cost me quite a bit on repairs, as I keep the car in a good shape. It runs well and serves me well, I like the higher comfort level in comparison to the 911, which I tested, as well as the Boxster, both are excellent, I almost purchased a used Boxster a couple of years ago in addition to the 928S. I like the styling of the 928S and I get a lot of thumbs-up as I drive it or park it, people stop by and ask questions with admireations. The performance is great, mine was made for the German market higher performance spec and it was converted by a US dealer to US parking lights requirements, so it is tuned for higher performance than the US vesion was in 1985. I admire the design and workmanship, Not much gave me trouble, mainly relays failed, all rubber components are original except belts, changing timing belt every 6-7 years is a pain, they replace the water pump at the same time. What is great, that Porsche services the old car with original parts yet, problem is with young mechanics with limited experience. There are several 928 in the Portland area and a good demand for the old ones, they have a good reputation by those who know what it is. I am keeping mine and enjoy driving it, The suspension is exceptional, it rides on "rails' ', but I spun it once on the wet road so I am careful. The Michellins are good. It is funny to compare that 928 to the current 911, Both have water-cooled engines and about the same weight as 911 gained with safety requirements. The higher weight of 928 was the biggest objection then, it did not oversteer in turns like 911, making 911 a challenge to drive, but today 911 has electronic driving controls for safer driving, The 928 does not need it with its passive rear wheel steering. I understand that 928 was a model for the four door Panamera. The design of 928 in the 1970's was at least 10 years ahead of the industry, it was the first one with body coloured polymer bumpers, now all cars are made that way including Tesla. Interesting story, Porsche designs are innovating, admirable at any vintage and designs. Thanks, George.

[@jeremymtc]

It's kind of the old Gibson Les Paul problem: Every time that the factory tried to improve it, the market tended to reject the improvements as non-traditional. Such is the way with the 911 and 928.

[@cruachan1191]

Was going to say something very similar, (IME anyway) 911 fans are very obsessive about 911s, so even if the 928 was supposed to be "better" it wasn't a 911 in either looks or experience.

[@fairmont___d]

Nice analogy!

[@danielthomas8507]

can't beat those old les pauls/911's bro....

[@cruiser6260]

@@cruachan1191 unless it's reversing so the engine is in the rear

[@Incountry]

That’s why you should own a Heritage H150, perfect first time round, liken go to 928 only needed little improvements not like the 911 that had come from a beetle - through to the 912 (serious classic)

[@AndyD070568]

I've got a Grand Prix White 1987 S4 and it's high speed stability is amazing. They're such an underrated car. It's more like an 80/20 split between auto and manual than 90/10. The auto box suits the car better and if you know how to use it, gives you everything the manual does without the heavy clutch.

[@ryanmccormick2150]

I've always loved the 928, I've always wanted one and eventually I'll have one to sit next to a 964 c2 . Cracking stuff Jack as always buddy 👍

[@mohammadzein504]

The 928 is a beautiful looking, and iconic drivers car. And it has aged very well! But realistically a 911 replacement it's not! Great video Sir Jack✌👍

[@Number27]

Thank you Mohammad!! Glad you enjoyed it

[@claretbadger8612]

Was the 928 the first car with integral bumpers, as now seen on pretty much everything? Way ahead of its time, over engineered and incredible cabin quality. Ive had my 4.5 for 7 years and love it. Doesnt even seem that big or heavy these days either.

[@scottjohnson4319]

White 928 with the checker-board interior over a 911? Yes please!! Thanks again Jack, always a pleasure.

[@canucklehead0]

Okay here's a longer story for you. Back in 1986/87 I saw and fell in love with the New Toyota Supra that was it's own car and not a Celica with an inline 6 thrown at it. I drove a couple and the experience was outstanding. The problem was I was just out of High School and going to University and had NO cash to purchase one with. In the late 90's with a few years under my belt I went looking for a Supra only to stumble across a 928, that was in my meager budget! It drove well, it was a 1980 car with the 4.7L engine but still had the plaid interior, the Teledial wheels and the automatic transmission, but it called to me and so $8k later it was mine. Now to all those who say they were unreliable, over 3 years and 25,000kms it cost me maybe $500/year in maintenance costs, which I didn't feel was that bad. It was a stellar road trip car, comfortable for 4-5hours of daily driving, could do a brisk turn of speed when required, handled well and I always thought looked lovely!! I sold her in 2001 to a friend who had wanted it since I bought it and as I was getting married and needed the cash, well it just made sense. Now 22 years later I am once again feeling the need for a solid, fun GT car of which there are many to chose from, but now as a Disabled, Widower with only half a right leg I need to look for an automatic car so on my list these days are the venerable 3rd generation Toyota Supra's, another Porsche 928 (a GT or GTS if I can afford one) and the Jaguar XKR. I'm leaning hard into the XKR right now but we'll see what's available when I go to buy. All that said, if you happen across a tidy 928 of any year, and your heart says "Get it!" do yourself a favour and listen to it and go have some fun!!

[@Number27]

Lovely memories and glad you had a good experience of a 928.. if I was choosing now i'd probably go for an XKR.. possiby easier to find a decent one at the right price and i like them a lot. But of course it wont elicit the same meories!

[@canucklehead0]

@@Number27 No but you can make new memories!! I really like the XKR's too I think the 4.2L V8 cars have the prettier body, the 5.0L V8 cars look like they want to be muscle cars and not GT cars to me.

[@autobahnproven]

Beautiful car. Is that marine blue metallic with full marine blue leather and light grey seats and door inserts? I owned one just like it but LHD. The aroma of the full leather interior was simply divine! One of the top few cars I regretted selling.

[@nieko3038]

Always liked these. They are rare in the roads. Owner must be a big europe fan putting the stars on the bumper.

[@CapitulationTrader]

Jack, this is a great look for you. The turtle neck and the color, your hair and scruff, and a pleasant afternoon drive in what we all agree is a wonderful classic car of an era. Cheers mate

[@michaeld2519]

'Flop' is not the right word to use in the title - it implies it was a failure, but a car with a production number of over 60 000 and a run of 18 years can't be classified as such. Later models are highly sought after and command very high prices, and they are rightly regarded as very capable and exceptionally well made cars. Besides that, a great video, Jack, thank you. Your channel is excellent!

[@peterprior1]

The 928 has always been my favourite Porsche. Never had the funds to own one but maybe one day now I'm older, I can fund a dream car. Thank you. Peter

[@SuperEjep]

Had an S2 and an S4. loved them both. Toured Europe and never missed a beat. I think part of the handling was due to passive rear wheel steer. Great cars. Wished I'd kept them as they are rocketing in value now.

[@rustybearden1800]

I've always loved the 928 for the very fact that it was not a 911. Call me a contrarian and 911s are nice, but this ticks all of my boxes. Just absolutely love it - one of my dream cars!

[@bogged2theeyeballs695]

A friend has a manual 928 S4 and also a 928 GTS. Great, comfortable car for long distance touring. Yes, the ride is on the firm side, but it also happily sits on 150MPH all day.

[@djneils100]

the Nuremberg ring!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@eze8970]

To be fair, that arena still has a road around the perimeter.

[@Number27]

Ever the professional as a presenter!

[@cafe405]

I had to rewind that bit to check I hadn't misheard. Time trial means something different there.

[@djneils100]

@@cafe405 he clearly meant Nurburgring - the car has a sticker with that word on it that was on screen as he said Nuremberg ring

[@djneils100]

@@Number27 you're brilliant!

[@mattyredrock]

Awesomeness! Great video. I've always been a fan of the 928 and, every time i see one, would wondere why it was never more popular. Cheers.

[@robertsmuggles6871]

I always liked this car. It is a luxury 2-door hatchback. It was bought by advertising and marketing directors who wanted status and exclusivity; lotus were after the same market in late 70s.

[@TheMrFishnDucks]

Nice video. Thank you for showcasing this car. Keep up the good work.

[@eze8970]

Next week, Jack finds space in his garage somehow for a 928S4! Thanks Jack, interesting to think if this line/type had been developed! 🙏

[@Number27]

That would be cool! Thanks 🙏

[@darrenstarling3975]

Great, even handed review. Thank you I owned an S4 for close to 20 years and loved it.

[@pereldh5741]

I love an S4, especially a manual GTS with the wider body… Great looker! Too bad the 928 was bad timed with the oil crisis still in effect. 924 would’ve been a bigger hit if they’ve bothered to make it less VW. The thing some people forget about The Car Of The Year awards is they’re never an aknowledgement of the car decades later - obviously - but what new it brought to the market at the time. Hence cars like the 928 & lots of Fiats for instance, which often were innovative.

[@slickfrictionless]

I've had my 86.5 five speed for 25 years. I maintain it properly and it has 200,000 miles. Still drives like a bat out of hell with the original engine, transmission, break calipers, and suspension (aside from struts). The only major services I've ever done is the timing belt, replaced a worn cam gear, the clutch, and torque tube bearings. As a matter of fact, it has the original oil pan gasket and does not leak a drop! The cars that have the biggest problems are the one's that haven't been driven and the seals dry up! It's never failed to start and never stranded me. Most reliable car I've ever owned. Let me mention again, I've maintained it!! I get so tired of hearing these cars have problems and are expensive to maintain!! They get expensive when you get behind the maintenance eight-ball and keep chasing issues that are caused by other issues that were never addressed in the first place! So many who can't really afford a car like this buy them because they are the biggest bang for the buck out there but they get a car that hasn't been maintained. This car is an over-engineered marvel. I've owned a 911 and I'll take the 928 over it every time. It's a superior car in every way unless you want a car to throw around like a toy. It is refined driving elegance that I've never found in any other car! Here is an example of its supreme engineering. I had the car repainted and was not in a hurry to get it back. It was in the shop for a year and a half. When I picked it up the day it was finished, I started it up and drove it 370 miles, for seven hours, to my destination. It drove and performed no different than it ever had! Keep in mind, the car is 37 years old!

[@dallisb1047]

The 928 still looks good to me. And still is my favorite Porsche.

[@andydhillon1977]

The 928 still lives on. The Panamera is the 4-door version of the 928. Porsche built a 4-door 928 back in the 80's. The Panamera is the natural progression of that sedan. Also, Mercedes essentially made a new version of the 928 with the Mercedes GT coupe.

[@andrewnorris5415]

Great analysis. I am guessing there was more competition for GT cars. The 911 was as you said, unique and with an iconic look. And If you were after a GT the Porsche brand did not fit with that at the time. GT cars seem to need pedigree, history and class? As they are more associated with luxury, like Rolex watches. As a kid I remember drooling over pictures of the 928 Steve Davis had, checkered gray seats, and reading the stats in awe. Glad to hear this a such a sweet car to drive around and reliable too if looked after.

[@jasonknight5863]

Excellent video ! I concur. One more thing to add is the 928 couldn’t replace the 928 simply because of the way that air-cooled motor out back sounded. It sounded heavenly like nothing else on the market. Whereas the 928 sounded more mainstream. Great but still it was liquid cooled mainstream.

[@AntBangBang]

Regularly goes to the Nuremberg ring where he puts the car through severe trials 😀 Another great video thanks Jack. I’ve always loved the 928.

[@perarduaadastra873]

I have owned a 928 GTS Manual for 20 years, sold a less pleasing 993 Turbo 4.

[@c05l24]

One could make a case for the fact that the 928 is still in production today or at least was revived in a modern format in the Panamera! Great review :)

[@captaineugene9840]

My old silver 928 from 1978 gets more beautiful with time. Personally, I find the design of this first generation 928 just as charming as the 911, simplicity and beautiful lines, love it.

[@jusssy5078]

Although my view back in the day was different, the first gen 928 is much nicer than an S4 now, the GTS is probably OK though as it's filled out a bit. I dunno. They're all lovely!

[@duncankenworthy-eg6ix]

I own a 79 auto which I have had for 36 years. Has done 90k, love it but a pain washing the ethanol out of the fuel.

[@farginicehole513]

​@@85testarossa22Pasha?

[@virgilrytaar9083]

Its fantastic, amazingly similar to my 'worlds cheapest 996'. There's just something about a generally unloved Porsche that ticks all of the boxes for me. I've owned them all, yet all I need is an earlyish 924

[@fredbobberts5753]

I’m laughing as I read this because I own a 944S, a car that is simultaneously rare and undesirable. 😂

[@gazfish]

Porky, by modern standards it’s featherweight. Their concerns with the 911’s future was continuing to meet US emissions, and the lack of 928 sales was due to price which was impacted by currency changes along with purists saying it’s not a proper Porsche. Which is nonsense given it was the first blank sheet Porsche design.

[@Number27]

Intersting point on currency changes Gary... thanks!!

[@jeffzekas]

There are quite a few old Porsche 928 here in Oregon, and they are quite affordable, they usually they are totally thrashed

[@solosailorsv8065]

After rebuilding a 911 and 944, the 928 was the next logical level..... but that tight engine bay was just too small for me. GREAT design and alloys are truly enjoyable to restore !! The 928 truly has an exceptional drive train !! AND, if you can DRIVE, a 928 can easily compete with super cars off-track by average drivers

[@DavidMorley]

First Porsche I drove was Mats Wilander's (tennis) 928 in the late 1980's. My first job was at a car rental company. The boss was friends with Mats. I had to drive it round the block. Took 15 minutes.. Lovely car. Would love one, but running costs mean I ended up with a 968.

[@user-wl7rb5ri5m]

I was fortunate enough to have driven a European version of the 928. I’ve owned multiple 911s. The 928 drove a lot like a muscle car while the 911 drives like a proper sports car.

[@user-en9zo2ol4z]

I absolutely love this front-engined V8 powered Porsche and I have since my first viewing at a motor show as a kid. The worst experience of one is as a be suited passenger in the back seat as an adult. I am certain the front seats was where the fun was distributed, as is common in all 2 + 2 sports cars.

[@MyCarFilm]

Great review of another car I nearly bought when they were cheap. To me manual is only option. Love the shape but for some reason I have a problem with the door design ...looks like is more... space craft than sports car...just doest work for me but not sure if frameless would have worked either.....anyway great engine and sound and has two child seats so makes it on to the ....we can all go out in it list....there aren't many on that list with a gearstick.

[@uboat928s4srv]

Wonderful cars...while the 928 pretty much only came in one body style, the 911 of the day had a great variety: Turbo (wide-body), Targa, and Cabriolet, with the option of combining them. I'd love to see a 928 Turbo Targa...

[@deepindercheema4917]

I took notice after watching this documentary on the 928 and was looking to buy the last iteration 928gts but the auction stiffed at about £30,000

[@928pcar]

First drive in a manual 928 is infectious