Why we need muscle with Stuart Phillips, PhD - Diet Doctor Podcast

Developing and maintaining muscle mass could be the key to living vibrantly and extending healthspan. In this episode, Stuart Phillips, PhD, helps us understand why muscle is so important and the best ways to develop healthy muscle. We explore practical tips for resistance training, the role of protein, and questions surrounding protein intake and longevity.
Phillips is an expert in both the science and the practical application of the best tools to improve your muscle mass and improve your health. His expertise will help you learn how to get started building muscle today.
Table of contents:
0:00 Introduction
2:17 Welcome, Prof. Stuart Phillips
7:14 Why is muscle health so important?
14:35 The types of exercise to maximize metabolic health
19:11 The interplay between nutrition and exercise
25:03 More protein content for muscle stimulation?
36:49 Protein from real food vs supplement for health benefit
40:33 The concern with more protein for muscle benefit and longevity
48:08 About Prof. Phillips' upcoming research
50:28 Considerations for animal vs plant protein for muscle health
58:37 Conclusion and where to find Prof. Stuart Phillips
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[@RoScoHutch]

As a 48 year old guy who has paid close attention to diet and exercise (both cardio and resistance training) for decades, I really appreciated Dr. Phillips' comments. The one thing I've had to pay MUCH closer attention to as I've gotten older, though, is flexibility. If I don't engage in stretching/mobility/balance movements a few times per week, I experience a lot of musculoskeletal aches and pains, decreased mobility, decreased exercise tolerance, etc. I think for many of us, flexibility training probably needs to be prioritized up there with cardio and resistance.

[@gechli3433]

Agree 100% about flexibility and balance! I am past the 60's mark and now give more time to stretching/mobility/balance workout.

[@robertstanton1668]

At 73 I have found that daily walking (2-1/2 miles) combined with pushups and inverted rows during the walk are about the perfect routine for me.

[@joerockhead7246]

“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” Thanks for posting.

[@yay-cat]

This is the only podcast I follow - Really great questions to fantastic guests but I also like how Dr Bret summarizes and revises the key takeaways from what the speakers say before moving on to the next question

[@ny10980]

No doubt, Bret does his homework and is always waiting to pry deep inside, where most interviewers just CANT! This is my top podcast choice as well!!!

[@rogeriahetrick2511]

Totally agree.

[@davidsalvador6031]

Stu Phillips and Don Layman, the two GOATs for protein info and muscle related nutrition. 👌💯

[@raewise6345]

OMG. ⭐Seriously, one of my favorite interviews you've done.⭐ And I've watched a ton of them. Thank you!

[@LiamMcGrath100]

Really enjoyed the interview. Lots of information passed on easily and with good humour and positivity. Thank you both.

[@healthyinspirations6692]

Fantastic interview thanks Brett and Stuart. On the question of ideal protein per kg total weight, with the modification with BMI over 30, surely it is possible to set ideal protein goal based upon height, or height and gender. This may be much simpler. BMI uses height. Greetings from Brisbane, Jamie Hayes PS: Here's a simple strength training prescription: Do big compound (2 joint) exercises like: Leg Press or Squat, Chest Press or Pushup, Seated Row, Shoulder Press, Pull Downs or Chin ups. On each exercise use a weight that is "light enough" to keep it moving for 60 seconds (about 8 x slow 8 second reps). On each exercise keep going as long as you can comfortably and safely endure. On any exercise where you can do 100 seconds or more (about 12 x 8 second reps), increase the weight/resistance about 5% next time. Do this routine at least once a week, but twice better on evenly spaced days. Slow controlled reps maximise joint safety. Only one set required so the routine will be no longer than 15 minutes. The first few reps suffice as warm up reps. Keep a record of weight, reps or seconds (Time Until Fatigue) on each exercise. At any age you'll keep on getting stronger as long as you have adequate protein and rest.

[@williamdahl3318]

Excellent info! Thanks for sharing.

[@paulpladin9590]

I am 65, diagnosed at 62 with type 1 diabetes and suffered massive muscle wasting. I am 6'2" and went from 200 lbs to 118. Three years later I am doing much better. I use functional exercise. The last project was laying down crushed rock on the driveway, 6 cubic yards worth. I could have hired someone or rented a tractor but took it as an opportunity for the shovel and rake exercise regime.

[@frannypalmer2726]

I did the same last month with 8" (x 70) and 16" (x 57) stepping stones. I had to cut out the grass for a pathway and then cut and laid roll roofing on the dirt so I could slide the stones. It was 🥵.

[@frannypalmer2726]

I am 64.

[@bidnow2946]

Now you can come over and help me move the 45 yards of fill dirt I had delivered.

[@paulpladin9590]

@@bidnow2946 I'll give you a discount :-)

[@paulpladin9590]

@@frannypalmer2726 I just peck away at it. 2 wheel barrows full, break. Two more, Lunch. Some days I get in 6 loads. It is working. I am getting stronger with better stamina. Good thing I'm not on the clock!

[@miskokinoo]

It still baffles me that some people don't see not only the usefulness but the vital necessity of being strong and hence muscular and fit at all stages of one's life. Always loved strength training but hadn't been able to do it consistently though out my life. I'd train like a beast for a few months then eventually couldn't keep that pace and stop. Months or years later I'd start a similar scenario. Now I know I hadn't learned about self-discipline, and I would sometimes probably overtrain and, not eat nor rest enough. I'm now going to be 55 in october and have been training regularly non stop for about 11 years and am in the best shape, more muscular and stronger than ever. Also, for those perhaps interested, I've been on a keto diet since march 2014 and loving it. Now for the last year or so I have been experimenting with increasing my protein intake and so I'm doing let's say a carnivorish (mainly beef) keto diet and so far so good. Even better.

[@aprilek6003]

Once again an excellent podcast from Dr. Bret and thanks to Dr. Phillips

[@barrittstephen2169]

What I'm picking up from this is, the importance of using your protein intake to create strength and endurance. Merly meeting a protein consumption goal without following through with a kinetic energy out put is not going to provide future potential energy in storage. You need the muscle. Very interesting conversation.

[@gstbadcat1]

I’m 63 and long story short, I was walking to pick up my granddaughter and barely clipped a high curb. Next thing I knew I was on the ground laying on my right side. Turns out, I fractured the 4th metacarpal in my right hand, but not enough to require surgery. My elbow was a tiny sore, but the rest of my body took the impact well with not one scrape from my head to my foot. My hand was swollen, but other than that, it was hard to tell I had taken a fall. I was on a keto diet for 4 years and now I’m mostly carnivore for past 17 months. What sold me on going carnivore is needing more protein in my diet for both muscle and bone health. I’ve met so many ppl my age who have who have had similar falls who fared way worse, needing surgery and needed a good year to get back to “normal”. It’s been 2 months, and I’m back to work and cleaning my house. I think if I hadn’t changed my diet 5 years ago, I would not of fared well. My gym barely opened, so if I hadn’t missed 16 months of weight training, I might of not even ended up with a fracture. I’m so thankful for the keto/carnivore communities and podcasts like this that present the science that give the rest of us the courage and perseverance to turn away from sugar and processed foods. It gives us older ppl hope to reverse some of the damage done by decades of SAD, low fat, vegan, and yo-yo dieting.

[@energeticsoulhealer888]

You are awesome! Thank you for sharing.

[@doddsalfa]

There is no damage from being vegan on the contrary

[@TyronPiteau]

Great interview. Thanks you two. I encourage all my clients with strength training and prioritize it.

[@biodivers5294]

Great talk again, motivates me to stay active !!

[@Chriscaew]

I'm a 74 year old woman. I recently purchased some bathroom scales and to my absolute delight, I discovered I weighed the same as I did as a slim teenager all those years ago, BUT then it dawned on me that my dress size is significantly larger than it was in my teenage years so I all I've really lost over the years was muscle mass (I feel weak) and bone (I have osteoporosis)

[@rogeriahetrick2511]

Fantastic interview! Thank you so much!

[@rosariofrancis464]

At 69 years of age, five feet tall and 100 lbs. wish someone would discuss gaining weight and muscle. Everything is about loosing weight. Heeeeelp. Female with insulin resistance. Just want to maintain what I have at this stage. Thank u.

[@monicaambs]

One of your great talks. Always interesting to hear Stuart talk about the elderly and increased protein requirements.

[@perrysebastian6928]

Outstanding information. Inactivity periods is an important concept.

[@jimbeaver27]

Pauses video and goes to the fridge for a steak... I'm 70 and I think you guys are right, I need more protein.

[@longyang888]

What about "amino acid utilization rate " for different protein source, like whole egg, meat, plant source, EAA supplements? Very few "Protein experts" talk on this issue.

[@dynamikidiaplasimelissia9677]

This is the best Podcast on this topic.

[@ChannelJtotheD]

Excellent content! Thank you

[@rohitkurian3473]

The TIME-STAMPS are very beneficial

[@zorinaganpaul1598]

Please let Dr Stuart know that protein always comes with fat in Nature so a good protein shake must include fat 😊

[@emh8861]

Dr. Bikman has a good one .

[@dianelautenslager8813]

De Scher is wonderful! I went to a cardiologist here in Cincinnati thinking that he would be like Dr. Scher - boy was I wrong! Soooooo wrong 😑

[@doddsalfa]

The only diet proven to reverse coronary arteries disease is a plant based diet

[@stephanienewton6618]

Is it enough to do a fast paced resistance training program that gets the heart rate up for 30 min? Is that enough cardio? That’s basically what I’ve been doing. In addition to riding my bike to the store or walking on the beach with a 12 lbs weighted vest (which feels like a leg/cardio combo)...one of those at least once per week.

[@tonilampard8794]

Excellent content, thank you.

[@healthyinspirations6692]

Constructive criticism. This is such an important topic and session, with a great expert that more people need to fully watch and learn from BUT it was such a pity that Stuart Phillips did not go to the trouble to organise a better microphone setup. For older people, who need to listen to this more than anyone, it is a struggle to hear him clearly. It's a common mistake to believe if you are speaking clearly, your voice is being recorded clearly. Brett, I think you're too polite to mention this to a guest, but perhaps you could have a tech team member reach out to future guests in advance to ensure they do what is necessary to be heard correctly. Your sessions are too important not to have good audio quality. Otherwise, people will simply switch off.

[@milantoth2045]

Excellent content, thank a lot. Maybe next time will come mTOR

[@ivo69tube1]

❤Great Podcast ❤

[@DanielCathers]

I recommend Starting Strength.

[@Marx1963]

I periodically do a Protein Sparing Modified Diet / I’ll consume 280 grams of protein. 20 grams carbs / 20 grams fat with great results . (185lbs)and I’m 57 years old .

[@bidnow2946]

What the heck do you eat to get those macros?

[@Marx1963]

@@bidnow2946 shrimp , tuna steaks ,chicken ,fat free Greek yogurt , fish , no carb whey sludge ,lots of egg whites , no carb low fat bitong . Easily done .

[@bidnow2946]

@@Marx1963 Impressive. I did the math, and if you did equal portions of protein, you'd end up with 200g protein, 15g fat, and 15g carbs. I tried a PSMF, and couldn't do it for more than a few days.

[@Ainsley_the_meat_rubber]

@@bidnow2946 you also need money since protein is the most expensive macro

[@ericjohnson1472]

A good listen but found it vague with no exact details, he covered a lot issues but didn’t finalise anything ?

[@Dan-jo8py]

Just ask the 'cardio' people to point to the 'aerobic' part of metabolism. Even if some of them do eventually point to the mitochondria ask them how it's supposedly accessed without going through the anaerobic cytoplasm surrounding it, magic? The only way to maximise the TCA cycle in the mitochondria is to push substrate to it as hard and fast as possible, which requires pushing the anaerobic portion as hard and fast as possible...

[@theskyehiker]

I listened to this podcast with great interest. However, after it was done I still have no idea how much protein to eat. Did I miss something important here?

[@dietdoctor]

Here is our guide to getting started with high-protein. www.dietdoctor.com/high-protein/get-started

[@Appleblade]

Protein combined with carbs jacks up insulin, and insulin is anabolic, so why no discussion of using carbs to ratchet up insulin in the recovery-growth window?

[@kiwikim5163]

Don’t forget the third physical pillar of health: flexibility.

[@megaswenson]

So VERY true! The RESERVE one gets with flexibility, prevents injuries, and thus prevents setbacks.

[@Rtn7789]

@@megaswenson He is fake

[@rospez1763]

I understand that protein raises blood glucose. Will high protein work with diabetics?

[@cassieoz1702]

Protein has relatively very little insulin response (and doesn't raise BGL) so provides nutrition without detriment

[@dietdoctor]

We address this, and other common concerns, in our high-protein FAQ. www.dietdoctor.com/high-protein/get-started

[@MsTony1402]

I’m not sure about this constant reference to women struggling to eat enough protein. What sort of women are they that they can’t eat a 4 egg omelette with cheese and maybe even a few bacon bits? I just don’t believe that women, especially the ones with a few extra pounds, can’t manage more than 2 eggs! If anything I think it’s more an issue of women feeling judged for the portion size of 4 eggs rather than physically not being able to eat them...

[@frannypalmer2726]

Yeah what you said! I was thinking the same thing. 4 scrambled eggs and 🥓🥓🥓🥓. Bring it on.

[@bidnow2946]

reddit/xxketo had lots and lots of them in the past. I think it was a lot of past training and psychological resistance more than anything else as well.

[@cmorrison5466]

I think has more to do with years of following the "eat 6 small meals a day plus healthy snacks". For decades, I ate small meals and snacks all day long. The first time I tried to eat OMAD, I couldn't do it. My stomach wasn't used to eating that much in one sitting. Now that I've done 2MAD/18-6 for four months, I can easily enjoy 4 eggs, bacon, cheese, and butter for lunch. 🥚 🥓 🧀 🧈 So I do think it's more of a physiological problem in the beginning until your stomach eventually adapts to eating larger, less frequent meals. At least it was in my case. I was a Snack Addict for sure.

[@missdaisydoodle]

16oz+ steak is no problem me and I’m a 114lb woman. I do think it is a social stigma more than anything.

[@cassieoz1702]

For so many of us, our only past experience of physical training is highly aversive so it's difficult to deliberately put yourself back under the influence of trainers.

[@frannypalmer2726]

You can do training with out a trainer. Books.

[@aliendroneservices6621]

Body by Science (2008) by Doug McGuff and John Little.

[@cassieoz1702]

@@frannypalmer2726 dobnt you get it. After 69 years I, and millions of other people, HATE even the thought of 'training'. I'm happy to walk, dig, turn compost heaps etc (can't atm cuz of knee deep mud) but 'trainers' (even the ones who write books) show NO understanding. They are pursuing THEIR passion/obsession and just don't see other perspectives. When I lived in the city I spent 2 years going to the gym daily and felt little difference in daily function, no difference in sleep, and hated every minute of it. How are we going to get through to the folks they've damaged so badly?

[@acidclarity_]

is there a 'polygenic risk score' type of thing for food? e.g. animal protein is higher quality but comes with hormones/contaminants, so is there a score that can summarise the benefit of a food or is this too complex

[@doddsalfa]

Animal protein is not higher quality

[@acidclarity_]

@@doddsalfa this is an interesting area of research. generally i love the message and perspective of Diet Doctor Podcast! so helpful and well thought out

[@doddsalfa]

@@acidclarity_ the protein quality issues comes from an old rat study but rat milk has ten times higher protein than human breast milk

[@motormania5250]

Not Dr. Phil, but Dr. Phillips!

[@strongspeed]

I weigh about 75 kg. - using the 1.6 number that would be 120 grams per day- which seems tough to get that much in a day- it would be about a lb of meat a day - what are your suggestions for getting this much?

[@tazot4064]

Eat plant protein. Much healthier

[@strongspeed]

@@tazot4064 plant protein doesn't have all 5he amino acids

[@tazot4064]

@@strongspeed Yes it does. Joe Rogan lied to you

[@strongspeed]

@@tazot4064 wasn't from joe rogan - i don't listen to him - not all vegetable proteins are complete- what ones do you suggest?

[@user-xb6fl9ri6g]

sweet spot: swing a kettle bell around a bit every day

[@CraigCastanet]

Starting strength channel on KZbin.

[@CraigCastanet]

Walking will not intervene in the natural history of catabolism, entropy, and sarcopenia that characterizes senescence.......unless compared to bed rest. This aversion that scientists and physicians have to recommend hard weight training is a disservice to the lay public. I liken it to the reticence to condemn alcohol, for personal reasons, irrespective of the science.

[@rospez1763]

150 pound female needs how many grams protein?

[@dietdoctor]

Here is our practical guide for getting started with high-protein. www.dietdoctor.com/high-protein/get-started

[@bauerhealthaction7952]

based on the discussion it would seem 100 grams/day approximates desired amount of protein grams/day

[@rikwen96]

I have been reading and listening to a bunch of vids on You Tube and what I am hearing most often is you need 1 gram of protein for every pound (US version) of ideal body weight. So if you weigh 150 pounds and you want to maintain this, you need 150 grams of protein per day. You cut back on the fat and carbs to keep from overeating. It sounds impossible, but after sitting down with the Diet Doctor lists of high protein foods and my search for high protein foods, I see it can be done.

[@RandyBauer]

@@rikwen96 Typical formula to determine based on 150 grams/kg body weight... 150 lbs body weight = 68 kg x 1.5 grams protein = 102 grams protein. This is for mild to moderately active.

[@rikwen96]

@@RandyBauer Yes that is the pounds to kilograms way of doing it and the more official way of determination. But I am beginning to see a push to higher levels of protein and they are using grams to pounds for people who don't understand the metric way of life. I think in the long run it depends on you and what you are trying to do with your eating lifestyle.

[@gailbrownell8713]

I’m a 63 year old woman and I’m currently eating mostly carnivore . Is it realistic for me to expect to gain muscle mass with resistance training?

[@Marx1963]

Absolutely! Benefits are incredibly- any resistance training will keep you active mobile in your later years . Also will make you live longer . My moms 78 on the go all day , golfing , hiking , swimming gardening she’s none stop ! Better shape and More energy then my overweight 50 something year old friends who eat like crap !

[@frannypalmer2726]

I hope so! I am working on it. When I started Keto 3 months ago I couldn't work out anymore. I would feel so exhausted the next day. I am currently doing better. I am 64. I lost muscle the past 2 1/2 years eating a really bad diet an gaining weight.

[@megaswenson]

It's absolutely possible - particularly if you are incorporating fasting along with your carnivore foodway. Fasting is the best way to trigger elevated production of Human Growth Hormone, which, of course, makes muscle gains much easier (lifting weights will also increase production of HGH).

[@actyrrel]

1.6 g/kg why not AU/stone? Merica. How many 1/4 pound burgers for a 200 lb human?

[@actyrrel]

So 6 oz for a 200 lb man? About 1/3 lb burger per day? 2oz split into 3 meals?

[@actyrrel]

Is this available protein? Of mass of my steak?

[@DenisChampagne2212]

Better Big and strong than skinny

[@netto682]

👏👏👏🇧🇷

[@greendeane1]

I must admit I hate going to the gym. Way too loud and arrogant.

[@theskyehiker]

I wish there was a gym for folks who hated the gym. The testosterone is thick in most gyms.

[@cassieoz1702]

@@theskyehiker testosterone + Lycra 🙄

[@GlennMarshallnz]

Home gym, dumbells, barbells, pull up/chin up bar. Plus some body weight stuff like push ups. Sorted. 😊

[@keto4lifeketogenic668]

get enough protein guys

[@DJSTOEK]

😷💕😷

[@perrysebastian6928]

The concept of regular feeding (protein or whatever) seems inconsistent with our ancestoral development. This "requirement" for optimal muscle building seems unrealistic. I am not saying that clockwork intake of protein does not have benefits, but I don't think it can be true that this regular intake process is necessary and sufficent for muscle growth. This assumes that dietary amino acids maintain a sort of amino acid balance in the body. How can this possibly be true?

[@VolkyHaus]

Also you have to understand the old ppl are more loaded with medicines, and told meat and fats is bad for them.

[@greendeane1]

The phrase "she fell and broke her hip" is probably wrong. It's more likely "her hip broke and she fell."

[@cassieoz1702]

Do you have a reference for that?

[@emh8861]

Not

[@pointshealthcoaching8474]

Wolff's law....

[@scottyroyale]

fairly limited one dimensional talk for an expert. no coverage of skeletal muscle role in glucose uptake, metabolic homeostasis or endocrine functions 😴

[@ath137]

There's evidence that even more protein is needed in combination with calcium to reverse osteoporosis. Might be why exclusive focus on raising calcium hasn't worked. Meat, not plant protein. blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/2014/07/25/the-paradox-of-osteoporosis-irreversibility-2/